
Scratching the Surface
Scratching the Surface is a podcast about design, theory, and creative practice. Hosted by Jarrett Fuller, each episode features wide-ranging conversations with designers, architects, writers, academics, artists, and theorists about how design shapes culture. Previous guests include architecture critic Paul Goldberger, MoMA design curator Paola Antonelli, architect and OMA partner Reinier de Graaf, Pentagram partner Michael Bierut, RISD President Rosanne Somerson, writer Kurt Andersen, and designer Jessica Helfand. Featured in Architectural Digest, Dezeen, Curbed, and Eye. New episodes every other Wednesday.
Latest episodes

4 snips
Jun 21, 2023 • 42min
114. Reinier de Graaf (Originally aired 3/13/19)
This episode originally aired March 13, 2019
Reinier de Graaf has been a partner at OMA since 1996. He co-founded the studio's think tank AMO and has overseen projects ranging from an exhibition of the history of the European Union to masterplans for projects around the world. He has also taught in Harvard's architecture department and is the author of Four Walls and a Roof: The Complex Nature of a Simple Profession. In this episode, Jarrett and Reinier talk about the origins of AMO and when clients don't need buildings, the intersections of theory and practice, and why he doesn't always preach what he practices.
Reinier's latest book, architect, verb, is now available. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/114-reinier-de-graaf-rerun.
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Jun 7, 2023 • 55min
132. Jenny Odell (Originally aired 9/11/19)
This episode originally aired September 11, 2019.
Jenny Odell is a multidisciplinary artist and writer based in Oakland, California. She’s the author of How To Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy, teaches digital/phyiscal design at Stanford and has been the artist in residence at the Recology SF (aka ‘the dump’, San Francisco Planning Department, the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts. In this episode, Jarrett and Jenny talk about her background in literature and design, the intersection of text and image, and the value of seeing what is front of you.
Jenny's new book, Saving Time, is now available. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/132-jenny-odell-rerun.
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May 24, 2023 • 44min
234. Julia Gamolina
Julia Gamolina is the founder and Editor-In-Chief of Madame Architect, a digital magazine and media start-up celebrating women in architecture. She's also an Associate Principal and Business Development Director at Ennead Architects and is a visiting assistant professor at Pratt Institute. In this conversation, Julia and Jarrett talk about what's missing in design media, the intersection of mentorship and publishing, and why it's important to show alternative forms of practice. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/234-julia-gamolina.
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May 10, 2023 • 55min
233. Mohsen Mostafavi
Mohsen Mostafavi is an architect and educator. From 2008 to 2019, he was the dean of the Harvard GSD. Previously he served as dean of the College of Architecture, Art, and Planning at Cornell University and as director of the Architectural Association School of Architecture. His current research,focused on the future of the Japanese city, includes the first English translation of Manfredo Tafuri's Modern Architecture in Japan. In this conversation, Mohsen and Jarrett talk about his interest in the future city, situating architecture in various contexts, and how leading three architecture programs shaped his own research. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/233-mohsen-mostafavi.
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Apr 26, 2023 • 51min
232. Scott Klinker
Scott Klinker is a designer, educator, and the designer-in-residence at Cranbrook Academy of Art's 3D Design department. His work in furniture and lighting explores a space between design, architecture, art, and craft. In this conversation, Jarrett and Scott talk about the evolution of industrial design, the intersection of design, art, and craft, and the role of personal expression in design processes. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/232-scott-klinker.
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Apr 12, 2023 • 58min
231. Ila Bêka and Louise Lemoine
Ila Bêka and Louise Lemoine are filmmakers, video artists, producers, and publishers. Their films focus on experimenting with new narratives and cinematographic forms in relationship to architecture and the urban environment. In 2016, their complete works were acquired by the Museum of Modern Art in New York. In this conversation, Jarrett talks with Bêka and Lemoine about filmmaking as architecture, how their work is a type of design criticism, and countering the dominant design discourse. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/231-ila-beka-louise-lemoine.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

9 snips
Mar 29, 2023 • 1h 1min
230. Sarah Whiting
Sarah Whiting is an architect, writer, editor, and the current dean of Harvard GSD. She is a design principal and co-founder of WW Architecture and from 2010 to 2019, she served as the dean of Rice University's School of Architecture. Her interdisciplinary research focuses on architecture's relationship with politics, economics, and society. Her writing has appeared in a range of publications from ANY to Wired and she's edited a variety of books, periodicals, and anthologies. In this conversation, Jarrett and Sarah talk about the value of interdisciplinarity, the intersection of theory and practice, and why editing is core to her practice. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/230-sarah-whiting.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Mar 15, 2023 • 46min
229. Fraser Muggeridge
Fraser Muggeridge is a graphic designer based in London. His studio works across a range of formats with a focus on typography and formal innovation. In 2010, he founded and is a tutor at the Typography Summer School, a week-long program for recent graduates and professionals and in 2022, he completed a PhD at RMIT called ”A Knowing Wrongness: Innovation in graphic design through combinations of traditional mastery and deliberately unconventional techniques”. In this conversation, Jarrett and Fraser talk about the ideas behind a knowing wrongness, the importance of process, and why so much contemporary graphic design looks the same. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/229-fraser-muggeridge.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Mar 1, 2023 • 55min
228. Jeremiah Chiu
Jeremiah Chiu is a creative director, artist, synthesis, and educator. He is an Assistant Professor at Otis College of Art & Design, a lecturer at Art Center College of Design, and a resident DJ at Dublab. His studio, Some All None, is a hybrid creative studio working at the intersection of graphic design, art, music, and technology. His most recent album, recorded with Marta Sofia Honer, is called Recordings from the Åland Islands. In this conversation, Jeremiah and Jarrett talk about balancing personal work with client work, how to rethink classroom critiques, and how performing music influences his design practice. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/228-jeremiah-chiu.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Feb 15, 2023 • 50min
227. Andrés Jaque
Andrés Jaque is the founder of the Office for Political Innovation and the newly appointed dean of Columbia University Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation. His work spans architecture, performance, publishing, curating, and research. In this conversation, Jarrett and Andrés talk about what he wants to do in his new position at Columbia, the intersection of politics and architecture, and how thinking in scales influences his work. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/227-andres-jaque.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast