The Cinematography Podcast

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 337: Eric Lin and Lyle Vincent Rosemead tells the tragic, true story of Irene (Lucy Liu), a terminally ill single mother, and her son, Joe (Lawrence Shou). As Joe battles schizophrenia and urges toward violence, Irene is left isolated from her Chinese American community in Southern California, facing impossible choices without a safety net. After decades behind the camera, director Eric Lin connected deeply with the personal nature of Rosemead. He grew up in Southern California and frequently visited the San Gabriel Valley, where the film takes place. Producer Mynette Louie, who he'd know since NYU Film School, sent him the script, and Eric decided to take it on as his first directorial feature. “I've shot a lot of features and I've been side by side with directors, watching how difficult it is to make a feature,” he says. “The thing that sort of lured me into the director's chair was that it's a story that I felt like I'd never seen before on screen.” Recognizing the film's nuanced demands, Eric knew he didn't want to pull double duty as cinematographer. Instead, he asked Lyle Vincent, another NYU alum with whom he shared a cinematic shorthand. “Knowing what a DP does, especially on a film like this, where I felt like I had to be so present, that would be a fatal mistake,” Eric explains. Lyle appreciated the trust, describing Eric as a director who “is extremely visual and who has amazing visual references and language.” Together the two shotlisted and discussed each scene emotionally and visually. To capture the film's emotional landscape, Lyle chose a subjective camera style. Handheld camerawork and portrait lenses help mirror Joe’s psychological state and the looming sense of danger. Using E-series anamorphic lenses, he created a shallow depth of field that softened the background, forcing the viewer’s focus onto the characters. This gritty reality contrasts sharply with Joe’s memories of the idyllic time he spent with his parents in a hotel. His flashbacks are rendered in warm tones, evoking a surreal, dreamlike nostalgia. See Rosemead in theaters. Find Eric Lin: Instagram @holdtheframe Find Lyle Vincent: Instagram @lylevincent SHOW RUNDOWN: 01:38 Close Focus 13:20-01:03:54 Interview 01:04:13 Short ends 01:13:09 Wrap up/Credits The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 336: Alice Brooks, ASC For cinematographer Alice Brooks, ASC, shooting both Wicked and Wicked: For Good concurrently was a huge feat. The giant sets, precise camerawork and complex, live lighting cues for the musical numbers required detailed planning and prep. But first, Alice and her long-time collaborator, director Jon M. Chu, broke down the scripts and discussed the emotional intentions for each scene. “When we first start talking about a movie, we talk about emotion,” says Alice. “I love getting an emotional cue for the camera the same way an actor would. What is the emotional intention in the scene? An actor gets to tell the story through their breath and through their looks and through their being. And I get to tell the story, the emotional story, through camera and lenses and lighting.” Separation, seclusion and surrender were the emotional themes in Wicked: For Good. “It became very clear that the first movie would live in this ever-present daylight,” explains Alice. “And the second movie would have this weight and complexity and maturity and density to it and live in the shadows.” 90% of Wicked takes place in the daytime, with the sun setting as Elphaba (Cynthia Erivo) embraces her power, sings “Defying Gravity” and flies away. In contrast, Wicked: For Good takes place mostly at night, in the shadows, forest, and underbelly of Oz while Elphaba is in hiding. Alice chose to frame the characters Glinda and Elphaba in contrasting ways for the story. Now separated from Elphaba, Glinda (Ariana Grande) is central to the world of Oz. Alice kept her center punched, carefully composed and choreographed. Elphaba is framed always to the right or left, with tight close-ups and static hand-held shots, to emphasize her loneliness. When the two are together, Alice repeated the same motifs from the first movie, with Ephaba framed to the right and Glinda to the left, often holding hands. Though Wicked: For Good is a huge fantasy movie, Alice and the production crew tried to do as much practically and in camera as possible. The “Girl in the Bubble” dance sequence was done entirely with carefully choreographed mirrors and flyaway walls that were removed as Glinda dances. Alice planned it out using her daughter's bath toys and her husband's shaving mirror. The art department storyboarded it, then the special effects team was able to figure out all the mirror technology needed to pull it off. The camerawork had to be very precise, with many of the frames exactly matching the last, combining both a Technocrane and a Steadicam. Unreal Engine was an indispensable tool for Alice to aid the film's sophisticated lighting and shot design. She used the software to pre-visualize outdoor sets, making sure the sun was at the right angle for perfectly backlighting Glinda in her bubble over Munchkin Land. It also helped her discover where the sun would hit tall buildings and spires of the Emerald City. Unreal assisted with pre-lighting, finding where practical light sources could be integrated and built into interior sets. She even tested different camera lenses to see how they would look in the space under certain lighting conditions and at various angles and heights. Alice is the cinematographer for the upcoming animated Spiderman: Beyond The Spider-verse as well as an animated version of the Dr. Seuss book, Oh The Places You'll Go with director Jon M. Chu. See Wicked: For Good in theaters. Find Alice Brooks: Instagram @_alicebrooks_ SHOW RUNDOWN: 01:22 Close Focus 08:41-51:09 Interview 51:36 Short ends 01:01:40 Wrap up/Credits The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 335: Jess Hall Cinematographer Jess Hall, ASC, BSC reunited with director Matt Shakman to bring the retro-future world of The Fantastic Four: First Steps to life. The two had collaborated on several projects together, such as Marvel's Wandavision. “I have a lot of faith in Matt Shakman,” says Jess. “I went into it with a lot of goodwill behind me. I was very aware that this was one of the original Marvel, it is the first family of Marvel, so I took that responsibility very seriously. I got very well prepared and I made sure that I was making choices that I thought would bring success to the project as well as tell the story that Matt wanted to tell.” Fantastic Four: First Steps required a higher level of pre-production planning than most, involving intense collaboration with the special effects team and production design. Many complicated sequences were prevised to meticulously establish the intended 1960s aesthetic. Jess achieved this period look through his lighting, camerawork, and lens choices. For the majority of the cinematography, he chose the relatively new Panavision Ultra Panatar II lenses, which coved the IMAX camera and were customized to his specifications. He also used a 16mm camera and Hasselblad lenses for some of the newsreel sequences. Color was crucial for establishing the 1960s aesthetic, and Jess infused it with a comic book vibrancy. He was inspired by a 1968 Fantastic Four comic book, creating a unified color palette for the LUT that featured blue, green, orange, and pale blue. Complex lighting setups were essential, incorporating miniatures, bluescreens, blackscreens, and motion capture performances. Jess opted for tungsten lights on Mr. Fantastic's (Pedro Pascal) lab set—a deliberate, retro choice that grounds the technology in the past. He found controlling the light challenging on bluescreen and blackscreen stages, as the lack of background required him to carefully conceive and control the light sources to maintain a sense of photorealistic depth. The production team prioritized creating as much of the film practically as possible to achieve the photoreal look director Matt Shakman wanted, with characters and scenes enhanced with VFX in post. Both Ben Grimm “The Thing” (Ebon Moss-Bachrach) and the Silver Surfer (Julia Garner) performed in motion capture suits. Rather than working on a volume stage, blue screens and black screens were used for the space sequences. A miniature scale model of the Fantastic Four's ship helped bring it to life, while a realistic 1960's Times Square set was built for the New York action sequences. For the planet-eater Galactus, Jess had a unique practical concept: treating him like a miniature. An extremely detailed costume was constructed, and Galactus moved through a small-scale set. Jess used specialized lighting and camerawork on his suit to create the illusion of the villain's immense, terrifying size. Find Jess Hall: Instagram: @metrorat See The Fantastic Four: First Steps streaming on Disney+ SHOW RUNDOWN: 01:56 Close Focus 13:10-59:54 Interview 01:00:08 Short Ends 01:10:09 Wrap up/Credits The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 334: Jeff Cutter Cinematographer Jeff Cutter first collaborated with director Dan Trachtenberg on 10 Cloverfield Lane. Their successful partnership continued on the Predator prequel, Prey, which became Hulu's most-watched streaming premiere. Jeff and Trachtenberg found they had a strong bond over their mutual interests, such as films like Die Hard with “muscular” camerawork. As gamers, the two often use cinematic moments and cutscenes from both videogames and movies as visual references during pre-production meetings. For Predator: Badlands, Tractenberg created a previsualization (previs) of the major sequences. He and Jeff then discussed the overall visual tone and the right approach for the camerawork. A key thought exercise they use is determining how each scene could be shot as a oner, even if the final plan doesn't involve a single-take sequence. Jeff explains, “The exercise just lets us, it really lets you figure out who is the scene about? What is the context and what is the subtext?” He finds that it's a creative way to focus and narrow down the visual choices to make each scene distinct. Jeff built upon the visual foundation he established for Prey. For that film, he and Trachtenberg wanted to subvert audience expectations of a Predator movie, focusing on a naturalistic approach that relied as much as possible on natural daylight, firelight, and moonlight as the primary sources. Defining the Predator: Badlands look by color palette: -The Yautja Planet (Predator Home World): Jeff chose a distinct brown and blue palette accented with warm tones. The look is designed to evoke a sense of harsh but beautiful reality, defined by sandy deserts and stark rock formations. -The Planet Gena: Shot partly on location in New Zealand, this environment called for a greener, more naturalistic look, with a bluer color for nighttime scenes. -The Weyland-Yutani Base: This section connects Predator: Badlands to the larger Alien universe, notably through the Weyland-Yutani corporation and its synthetic main character, Thia (played by Elle Fanning). Inspired by the industrial, ominous atmosphere and moody lighting of films like Aliens and Prometheus, Cutter aimed for an industrial look dominated by cyan, blue, and green tones. See Predator: Badlands in theaters Find Jeff Cutter: Instagram @jeff_cutter SHOW RUNDOWN: 01:53 Close Focus 12:01-1:04:42 Interview 01:05:03 Short Ends 01:13:10 Wrap up/Credits (with a little blooper at the end) The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

Jeff Cronenweth, a two-time Oscar-nominated cinematographer, is celebrated for his work on films like Fight Club and The Social Network. In this conversation, he shares insights on blending the visual styles of the new TRON: ARES with its predecessors. He discusses the unique challenges of portraying three distinct environments, selecting ARRI DNA LF lenses for their character, and the intricacies of night shoots in Vancouver. Jeff also highlights the importance of previsualization and collaboration across departments to create a captivating cinematic experience.

Cinematographer Dan Laustsen, known for his captivating visuals in collaborations with Guillermo del Toro, delves into the transformative journey of bringing Frankenstein to life. He shares insights on how he designed a rich color palette to reflect character emotions and highlights his preference for practical effects over CGI to enhance realism. Dan emphasizes the film's narrative as a love story about father-son relationships, not just horror, and describes the importance of lighting and camera movement in creating intimacy and depth throughout the film.

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 331: Tobias Datum Murderbot is the story of a security unit, part-human and part-machine, that has hacked its governing module to act in its own free will: mainly to be left alone to watch TV shows. Cinematographer Tobias Datum views the Apple TV+ series as a visual exploration of a synthetic being's journey toward humanity and self-discovery. Tobias worked closely with show creator and director Paul Weitz, continuing a collaboration that spans over ten years with Paul and his brother, Chris Weitz. The production team included production designer Susan Chan, VFX supervisor Sean Falden, and colorist Tim Vincent. As a cohesive group that had worked together before, they were instrumental in establishing the show's distinctive visual identity. Working with the team, Tobias set the visual tone during pre-production to ensure a smooth, consistent flow throughout the shoot. He faced the challenge of lighting and shooting a cohesive environment that spanned multiple, drastically different settings. Murderbot takes place on an alien planet, on space ships and space stations, and in Murderbot's own head as it watches its favorite galactic soap opera, Sanctuary Moon. For the alien planet, the goal was to ground the setting in a believable, "earthly reality" where human life could exist, all while adhering to the production's budget and schedule. A volume stage was extensively used for scenes shot inside the ships, space stations, and for the stylized Sanctuary Moon segments. Exterior planet scenes were shot on location at a sand quarry pit in Ontario, Canada. A large, two-story exterior set for the habitat was constructed there, while the habitat's interiors were built on a separate soundstage. The diverse settings of Murderbot presented unique lighting issues. Fortunately, the design of the planet was grounded in reality, so Tobias lit for a desert planet with minimal vegetation. He used a translight as a backdrop and integrated practical lighting directly into the sets. The main habitat, designed as a translucent bubble with many windows, required careful management of its natural glow. Tobias used negative fill to strategically tone down the intensity. Dr. Mensa, the human leader of the group, acts as an anchor for the story's emotional stakes. To maintain narrative focus, Tobias consistently lit and framed her with clarity, regardless of her position relative to the other characters. At first, he was concerned that lighting the Murderbot character would be problematic, especially when it wears its highly reflective helmet. “Murderbot’s a mirror ball, you know,” he explains. “So that meant lighting is going to be visible, and you don’t want every shot to be a VFX shot. Once I saw the very first stage of that suit, I was like, ugh. But then when we started doing tests, it’s kind of forgiving. I don’t think we had a lot of equipment removal from Murderbot’s helmet.” Tobias's journey began at film school in Berlin before he was accepted into AFI as a graduate student. There, he began building his portfolio while working on his colleagues' films. He credits a strong work ethic—constantly taking jobs and learning through experience—with his success as a director of photography. He reflects on his career with gratitude. “It’s a great privilege and we’re getting paid for this stuff. It’s like every time I walk on a set, I’m just like, am I lucky. This is a great way to make a living.” See Murderbot on AppleTV. Find Tobias Datum: https://tobiasdatum.me/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 330: Pål Ulvik Rokseth Pål Ulvik Rokseth, the Norwegian cinematographer behind director Paul Greengrass's gripping drama The Lost Bus, faced a singular challenge: how to transform one of the deadliest wildfires in California history into a visceral, cinematic character. The film dramatizes the true story of bus driver Kevin McKay and schoolteacher Mary Ludwig. The two heroically navigated 22 schoolchildren to safety during the devastating 2018 Camp Fire in Paradise, California. The partnership between Pål and Greengrass began on another harrowing true-life drama, 22 July, about a deadly terror attack on a summer camp in Norway. Greengrass asked Pål if he'd be interested in working in the United States on The Lost Bus. Just a few weeks later, Pål was prepping in New Mexico, eager to tackle the director's signature action-packed, docu-style storytelling. Pål's vision was to give the fire a palpable presence. "Paul wanted this fire to be a character," he explains. "It has its own cinematic tool as a character that evolves through the story and then gets closer to our characters." The cinematographer expertly captured the increasingly darkening skies, the ominous amber light, and the raw terror as the fire's destructive force grew. To achieve this visceral power, Pål worked closely with visual effects supervisor Charlie Noble, melding the practical and digital inferno into something that felt immediate and real. When he first read the script, Pål was uncertain how they were going to shoot the story on a bus with 22 kids surrounded by fire. His solution was an artful manipulation of natural and artificial light. To depict the moment the smoke enveloped the town, the crew shot exterior scenes at dusk, cleverly capturing a darkness that felt both realistic and unsettling. Real wildfires produce a distinct, saturated amber and reddish light. Pål reproduced this effect using 5k tungsten Skypans to illuminate the environment. The crew didn't shy away from practical effects either, using piped-in propane gas and smoke machines to simulate the omnipresent threat of the blaze. They built controllable, flammable sections of buildings, like the school set, and even an on-set "forest" that could be intentionally lit to capture the immediate impact of the fire. The entire set—including the re-created hills and forest—was constructed on a backlot in New Mexico, with only a few exterior scenes shot near Santa Fe in Ruidoso, where the natural mountains and trees provided authentic backdrops for the bus's journey. Adding to the realism, actor Matthew McConaughey often personally drove the bus when a stunt driver wasn't required. Pål's preparation initially included plans to use a volume stage to generate realistic fire backgrounds, but Greengrass quickly decided he preferred the grounded look of shooting on the backlot. This forced a pivot. While they abandoned the volume stage, Pål did shoot certain sequences on a stage with the bus mounted on a gimbal against a bluescreen for fire visual effects. Greengrass always prefers a realistic, documentary style, and most of the cinematography was handheld. Pål himself often operated one of the cameras, choosing the ARRI Alexa 35 paired with Canon Super 16 lenses. This combination was selected specifically for its ability to capture the complex depth and color palette of fire. For Pål, shooting documentary style is both the biggest challenge and the best reward. He enjoys being able to pre-light and shotlist, but he had to embrace the non-precision of Greengrass's style. "I tend to like to be on a dolly and frame up and light it, and it's very comfortable," he notes. "But with this way of doing it, you have to just follow the characters in their environment and then suddenly you find yourself being in this close-up, and it looks beautiful. I think it's very liberating to tell the story with the camera dynamically." Find Pal Rokseth: https://www.xo.film/dop/pal_ulvik_rokseth_fnf Instagram: @palulvikrokseth See The Lost Bus on AppleTV. Hear our previous interview with director Ron Howard and DP Lincoln Else. Their documentary, Rebuilding Paradise is about the town of Paradise rebuilding after the Camp Fire. https://www.camnoir.com/ep86/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 329: Ula Pontikos, BSC The psychological thriller The Man in My Basement is about Charles Blakey (Corey Hawkins), a Black man in Sag Harbor, New York, who is down on his luck, unemployed, and facing foreclosure on his ancestral family home. In a desperate financial situation, Charles accepts a bizarre and extremely lucrative offer from a mysterious, wealthy white businessman named Anniston Bennet (Willem Dafoe). Bennet proposes to rent Charles's basement for a hefty sum—enough to clear his debts—for a few months. To translate director Nadia Latif’s four-year vision from film to screen, cinematographer Ula Pontikos, BSC, chose to root the story firmly in Charles Blakey's viewpoint. Ula and Latif meticulously planned the camera movement and character staging, choosing when characters would enter the frame together or remain distant to explore themes of togetherness and division. The Man in My Basement was shot in Wales, standing in for Sag Harbor, New York. Ula's experience shooting in both the UK and the East Coast was a huge benefit. Though she had her doubts about filming in Wales for Sag Harbor, she found that the light in Wales was surprisingly similar to that of the eastern United States. Ula used light and color to reflect Charles’s state of mind, trapped in a house he can’t afford, with a man literally caged in his basement. A feeling of oppression was created both inside and outside the house with yellow-orange sodium vapor lights enhancing the film’s claustrophobic and uneasy atmosphere. The house was a set with a greenscreen in the windows to show the outdoor scenery from inside. Charles’s nightmare sequences and scenes in outdoor locations were lit with cyan and greens. The film ultimately builds to a climax steeped in red. The most intimate and thematically crucial scenes took place in the basement. Ula chose to shoot these sequences in order, allowing the light story to progress. The lighting shifts from somewhat dim and shadowy with shafts of daylight to completely dark once Charles covers the windows to prevent people from seeing a man caged in his basement. The basement's color palette was created with yellowy, tungsten lights mixed with LED lights. Ula also acted as camera operator, with a single camera for the basement sequences. To maintain tension for the camera, actors Corey Hawkins and Willem Dafoe rehearsed the basement scenes separately. For Ula, the most challenging aspect of the movie was the technical difficulties of shooting through the bars of the cell in the basement. The camera's field of view and depth of focus constantly shifted. Ula had to change lenses frequently, adjusting between showing more of the actors' faces and showing more of the bars. “Shooting characters and the bars is very hard,” Ula explains. “Inevitably, somebody is going to lose an eyeline and somebody is going to go strange-eyed. It's super restrictive. It's very technical and at some point all of us were swearing about the bars.” Her solution required meticulous technical work: careful blocking and making sure both the camera and the actors hit their marks precisely. She was greatly impressed by the results: “It’s a testament to extremely technical, professional actors like Willem and Corey.” See The Man in My Basement on Hulu. Find Ula Pontikos: www.ulapontikos.com Instagram: @ulapontikos The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

The Cinematography Podcast Episode 328: Kira Kelly, ASC Cinematographer Kira Kelly, ASC, had a rare opportunity in the movie HIM: exploring the genres of horror and sports, which are not usually combined. She and director Justin Tipping focused their discussions on Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), specifically how football-related brain injuries often cause hallucinations. This condition was central to building the feeling of surrealism for the main character, Cam. Before beginning the 8 weeks of prep on HIM, director Justin Tipping created an extensive lookbook with ideas for the atmosphere, lighting and costumes. To establish the film’s unique, suspenseful, and surrealistic look, he suggested Kira watch The Holy Mountain and Black Swan. “Justin was open to lots of collaboration,” says Kira. “I feel like this film does have such a strong visual look because we were all working together to make the movie.” Camera movement, color, and lighting are all integral to the movie’s storytelling. As Cam descends deeper into the underground compound, Kira used specific colors and lighting. She created a document to track the emotional influence of color for each scene, integrating the lighting into the set and programming the colors to change per sequence. Red with orange highlights was used for the Saviors party, reflecting the oxblood red of the team colors. Fuchsia and magenta were used to show rage. For the scenes on the training field, Kira used top lighting, so that the skin tones of the players would have some reflectivity. Kira's camera work parallels Cam's psychological journey. “At the beginning, it should be fun,” Kira explains. “He's playing football. It's much more loose.” The crew used handheld and body cameras, plus a boomerang rig that sent the camera flying down the field. Once Cam feels trapped in the compound, Kira shifted the style dramatically. “That's where we get into more of these center- punched static frames. He's trapped figuratively, and all the ways.” One of HIM's most unique visual elements was the use of a Flir thermal imaging camera. Kelly and Tipping wanted to use the thermal camera to visually represent the internal trauma of what was happening inside the players’ bodies and brains during tackles. Kira and her crew created a rig to mount the Flir camera right above the ALEXA 35 and found that the images could converge and focus enough to allow the two images to overlay. The shots could flick back and forth between the regular camera and the thermal camera. In post, VFX added the brains and accentuated the muscles. The thermal camera effectively showed blood flow and hot and cold areas, adding a chilling layer to the physical impact of the sport. Kira feels gratified that her vision for the visual style of HIM tells an effective story. “As a DP, every challenge I have is if an audience is able to understand the story,” she says. “If they don't have the wonderful dialogue, if they don't have the music, if they don't have all of those other things helping the story along, could they tell what's happening just with the imagery? And I feel like with HIM, I say, yeah, I think so. You can see it happening. And that's what's super exciting to me.” See HIM in theaters and on VOD. Find Kira Kelly: Instagram @kirakellydp Hear our previous interviews with Kira Kelly: https://www.camnoir.com/ep67/ https://www.camnoir.com/ep273/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social