Unlearn: Redefining the Playbook for Modern Business

In this episode, Asher and Kelly sit down with Richard Ezekiel to unpack his book COELEVATE, a practical framework built from decades in the trenches in Silicon Valley and as part of the venture capital ecosystem. Richard breaks down how to build a “virtual company” between partners, why operational rigor is often overlooked, and how partner professionals can move beyond buzzwords to drive real business value.Chapters04:28 – From Wired Magazine to Amazon10:29 – The Partnership T: A Customer-Centric Framework17:42 – The Real Reason Richard Wrote COELEVATE24:05 – Why 70% of Partnerships Fail29:13 – Building a Partnership Like a Virtual Company34:42 – The Problem with “Alliances” and Industry Nomenclature42:33 – Scaling with Platform Partnerships48:12 – AI, Methodology, and What’s Next for COELEVATEKey Takeaways1. The 70% Problem - Most partnerships fail within two years, not because of execution issues, but because the foundational idea wasn’t strong enough.2. The Virtual Company Mindset - A great partnership should function like a shared operating entity between two companies.3. Idea Quality > Execution - You can’t fix a weak idea with flawless execution. Strong partnerships start with high-quality, differentiated ideas that actually matter to the customer.4. Platform Strategy Isn’t Plug-and-Play - Scaling to one-to-many partnerships doesn’t mean copy-pasting one-to-one motions.5. It’s Time to Codify the Discipline - We’ve built sales, marketing, and product into academic and operational disciplines. It’s time to do the same for partnerships with a common language, methodology, and structure.Key Quotes"You’re not building a deal. You’re building the architecture for two companies to evolve together. If that framework’s not there, the partnership won’t last." - Richard Ezekiel"Most partner pros don’t realize they can take their skills into entirely new industries. The ceiling moves when you stop thinking of partnerships as just a B2B function." - Asher Mathew"Execution depends on culture. You can’t build a strategic partnership if your company values or brand DNA fundamentally clash, even when the numbers look great." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are complex, evolving ecosystems that need better tools, better thinking, and stronger foundations. Richard Ezekiel’s book COELEVATE is a serious attempt at codifying what most of us learn the hard way: that sustainable partnerships need structure, creativity, and a real operating model behind the press release.This episode is for anyone trying to bring good ideas to life through collaboration. Tune in to hear what’s next for the discipline and what Richard is building to make the methodology real and usable with AI.

Natan Edelsburg, Chief Partnerships Officer at Muck Rack, joins Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn on Unlearn to talk about what happens when a revenue leader outgrows the CRO seat. They unpack how modern PR is evolving, why media training matters more than ever, and how partnerships roles are becoming more dynamic and strategic than ever before. Natan shares his journey from early employee to CPO, the challenges of navigating internal change, and the power of authentic storytelling in a noisy world.Chapters01:03 – Natan’s Journey to Chief Partnerships Officer10:00 – Why He Stepped Down as CRO13:40 – Building a Role Around Partnerships & Evangelism19:50 – Staying Focused on PR in a Distracted Market30:32 – LinkedIn’s Role in Modern Comms37:20 – What Makes a Strategic PR Campaign40:35 – Why Media Training Is Essential43:00 – Using AI for Smarter Media Prep47:50 – Activating Relationships Through LinkedInKey Takeaways1. Modern PR Requires Integration - Great campaigns span paid, earned, shared, and owned channels. PR isn’t just pitching anymore.2. Media Training Isn’t Optional - Executives are expected to show up polished on every channel, not just in interviews.3. Partnerships Can Be Evangelism - Natan’s role blends relationship-building with brand representation, showing CPOs aren’t confined to revenue KPIs.4. AI Should Augment, Not Replace - Smart teams are using AI to speed up busywork—but keeping humans in the loop to protect quality.5. LinkedIn Is an Underrated Power Tool - Relationship capital, activated thoughtfully, still opens more doors than cold outreach ever will.Key Quotes“You still want to do incubation stuff, but the company’s needs are highly specialized. That’s the trade-off every growth-stage exec faces.” - Asher Mathew“While tech stacks change, relationships remain the most durable asset in go-to-market.” - Kelly Sarabyn“Being media trained doesn’t mean being robotic. It means knowing your story and being able to tell it in a way that connects.” - Natan EdelsburgFinal ThoughtsNatan’s story is a reminder that career growth isn’t always up. It’s sometimes sideways, strategic, and self-aware. From building Muck Rack’s comms ecosystem to leading without a team, he’s showing what flexible leadership looks like. And with AI, PR, and social platforms evolving fast, the conversation doubles as a blueprint for staying relevant and trusted in any go-to-market function.

As VP of Partnerships at Factorial, Marcel Queralt turned a side project into a full-blown business unit, driving one-third of the company’s revenue. In this episode, Marcel breaks down how he built a 100-person global team, why partner leaders need to think like entrepreneurs, and the exact culture and org structure that keeps it all running.Chapters02:30 - Why partnerships became a growth lever06:05 - Finding product-market fit before hiring10:33 - Why Marcel hired “mini-founders” first27:50 - Culture of ownership and reporting discipline45:52 - The role of partner enablement at scale50:48 - Presenting to the board and owning the numberKey Takeaways1. Mini-Founders First: Marcel prioritized hiring entrepreneurial talent who could own a market and figure out what works before scaling.2. Reporting is Strategy: Clean attribution and shared CRM visibility are non-negotiable if you want internal alignment and credibility.4. Partner Enablement is Make or Break: Fast partner activation—within the first two weeks—is the key to long-term results.5. Partnerships = Business Unit: Marcel runs his org with full P&L ownership, localized teams, and dedicated marketing and ops support.6. Culture Eats Incentives: Internal collaboration is less about comp plans and more about shared trust and aligned goals.Key Quotes"My whole thing right now is, hey, can a partnership leader track performance all the way down to earnings per share... even if you can come down to like net income generated from partnerships, that would actually be a pretty cool thing." - Asher Mathew"It sounded like when you initially took this on, you were looking quite broad at a lot of different types of organizations that could drive the business forward." - Kelly Sarabyn"Signing a partnership doesn't mean anything... we want to understand if they want to invest or not on this relationship, if they are able to sign on a business plan or not, and if they have the ambition to be relevant for us. Because we want to be relevant for them." - Marcel QueraltFinal ThoughtsPartnerships don’t scale on charm alone. Rooted in ownership, discipline, and strategic hiring, Marcel’s approach shows what it takes to turn partner teams into revenue engines. Whether you’re in the early days or managing a global org, this episode is a blueprint for doing it right. It’s also a reminder that treating partnerships as a real business unit is necessary if you want to move the needle.

In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Sergio Farache, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at TD Synnex. Sergio shares insights on how TD Synnex is breaking away from the traditional linear model, creating a dynamic ecosystem that supports diverse partner types, from SMBs to global enterprises.Chapters02:28 - Sergio’s Background and Role at TD Synnex04:11 - Evolving from Linear Models to Ecosystems08:27 - The Omnichannel Approach16:27 - Supporting SMBs with Tailored Programs23:47 - Empowering Partners and Managing Data33:37 - Distribution Models and Partner Retention44:16 - Go-to-Market Trends and Future FocusKey Takeaways1. Ecosystem Integration: TD Synnex serves as the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” integrating major cloud platforms like AWS, Microsoft, and Google into a unified experience.2. Omnichannel Strategy: Whether partners prefer a digital portal, API integration, or direct support, TD Synnex meets them where they are.3. Focus on SMBs: Programs like Evolve help smaller partners scale their offerings without needing a large internal team.4. Data-Driven Decisions: TD Synnex leverages its extensive data to help partners target the right customers and build effective go-to-market strategies.5. Future of Distribution: Embracing digital engagement while maintaining human touchpoints remains crucial for building long-term relationships.Key Quotes“We are the ecosystem of ecosystems. Our role is to normalize interactions across platforms, allowing partners to access major cloud providers from one place.” - Sergio Farache“If you build an amazing global SMB company, you’ll get any money you want from VCs.” - Asher Mathew“The essence of why platforms exist is to add value by connecting partners and customers across the chain.” - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsSergio Farache highlights how TD Synnex is redefining distribution by fostering an interconnected ecosystem, focusing on SMB enablement, and leveraging data to deliver value. As the market evolves, TD Synnex’s approach to blending human interaction with digital efficiency will likely set the standard for the future of technology distribution.

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Gilad Zubery, Chief Revenue Officer at DealHub. This episode unpacks Gilad's journey from EVP of Partnerships at ContentSquare to his current role, highlighting the strategic importance of partnerships in driving business growth. Discover insights into the challenges of revenue operations and the evolving landscape of partner-driven strategies.Chapters- 06:00 - Gilad's Career Journey and Transition to CRO- 12:00 - Attribution Challenges and Solutions in Partnerships- 18:00 - The Role of Partnerships in Company Growth Strategy- 24:00 - Community Building and Its Impact on Business- 30:00 - Challenges in Partner-Driven Growth for New Platforms- 36:00 - Reporting Structures for Partnership Teams- 42:00 - Metrics and Board Reporting for PartnershipsKey Takeaways1. Transitioning to CRO: Gilad's move to Deal Hub was driven by the company's belief in partner channels as a growth engine, underscoring the value of partnership expertise in executive roles.2. Attribution in Partnerships: Implementing a robust attribution system is crucial for understanding the impact of partnerships on lead generation and revenue.3. Outsourcing Challenges: Competing with established players like Salesforce requires innovative strategies, especially when offering fewer services.4. Reporting Structures: The optimal reporting line for partnerships varies by company strategy and culture, emphasizing the need for alignment with overall business goals.5. Early Metrics Implementation: Introducing partnership metrics early can significantly influence strategic decisions and highlight the importance of partner relationships.Key Quotes"Everything you do about partnerships, do it early on after you grow. It's close to impossible to really change. It's very difficult." - Gilad Zubery"Understanding the go-to-market motion of a company is crucial for determining where partnerships should report." - Asher Mathew"This is the beauty of having a partner friendly CRO is you can get data like that, even understanding who the partners are on the other, the competitive side." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsGilad's transition to CRO highlights the growing importance of partnerships in modern business strategies. His approach to eliminating attribution issues and fostering community engagement offers valuable lessons for leaders aiming to integrate partnerships into their growth models. As companies navigate competitive landscapes, the insights shared in this episode underscore the need for adaptability and strategic alignment in achieving sustainable success.

In this episode, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn engage with Serrah Linares, Senior Vice President of Growth Innovation at Optum, in a compelling discussion on the future of healthcare partnerships. This episode unpacks how technology, APIs, and strategic alliances are reshaping healthcare delivery and innovation.Chapters5:02 - Healthcare tech: EMRs, APIs, and data exchange10:57 - Industry evolution: Adoption of technology in healthcare17:50 - Partnerships and interoperability in healthcare24:41 - AI and verticalized solutions in healthcare30:36 - Organizational structure and partnerships at UnitedHealthcare36:57 - Stakeholder alignment and making the business case42:25 - Challenges of partnering in the healthcare industryKey Takeaways1. Optum's Technological Edge: Optum builds and commercializes technology to fill gaps in healthcare, enhancing member engagement and service delivery.2. Interoperability and Innovation: The healthcare sector is gradually embracing digital transformation, driven by federal policies and the need for collaboration.3. API Marketplace as a Catalyst: Optum's API marketplace supports startups, fostering innovation in telehealth and virtual care.4. Data Protection vs. Sharing: Balancing data protection with the need for information sharing is crucial for improving healthcare outcomes.5. Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Effective partnership initiatives require a compelling business case and alignment with company goals.

Elena Leonova, Chief Product Officer at Spryker, joins Unlearn to discuss how product leaders should rethink their approach to partnerships. She explains why transparency in product roadmaps is critical, how developer ecosystems drive platform success, and why product managers need to integrate partners into their strategy. This episode is packed with insights on structuring partnerships for scale, and positioning partnerships at the executive level.Chapters:01:33 - The Role of Partnerships in Platform Products04:26 - Structuring Partner Success & Developer Enablement07:29 - Transparency in Product Roadmaps for Partners12:58 - The Journey from Product to Platform18:48 - How to Sell Partnerships to Product Leaders22:05 - Why Product Managers Should Care About Partners32:25 - The Role of Ecosystem Risk in Product Decisions41:05 - CEO-Level Conversations About Partnerships48:42 - Staying Aligned with Partners Over Time50:08 - AI’s Impact on Product-Partner StrategiesKey TakeawaysProduct leaders need to shift their mindset—Partnerships aren’t just a go-to-market strategy; they’re a core part of a scalable product strategy.Transparency is key—Sharing product roadmaps with partners fosters trust and helps them build complementary solutions.Developer experience matters—A strong developer ecosystem increases platform adoption and partner engagement.Partnership decisions need a framework—Having a clear “build, buy, or partner” philosophy helps streamline product decisions.Ecosystem risk is real—Companies must account for partner stability and evolving technology trends when integrating third-party solutions.Key Quotes"Product leaders often don’t realize that partnerships can extend product capabilities without adding internal complexity." - Elena Leonova"If a product roadmap doesn’t make space for partners, it’s missing a massive opportunity for scale." - Asher Mathew"Product managers care about adoption—partners can help increase product stickiness and usage." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are a growth strategy that requires alignment between product, business, and developers. Whether you’re a product manager, a partner leader, or an executive, this episode is a masterclass in structuring partnerships for long-term success.#ProductLeadership #Partnerships #TechEcosystem #SaaS #PlatformStrategy

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Alan Chhabra, a seasoned executive with a rich history at MongoDB, now leading partnerships at Cerebras. This episode unpacks Alan's journey from engineering to executive roles, offering insights into building robust partner organizations and strategies for collaborating with hyperscalers. Chapters - - 01:24 - Alan's Background and Journey into Partnerships - 05:54 - Building a Successful Partner Organization at MongoDB - 10:09 - Challenges and Wins in Partnership Development - 24:38 - Strategies for Working with Hyperscalers - 31:32 - Building the Right Team and Infrastructure for Partnerships - 41:23 - The Importance of Enablement and Partner Marketing - 47:37 - Alan's Reflections on His Time at MongoDB - 52:34 - Alan's Transition to Cerebras and the AI Chip Market - 56:49 - Advice for CEOs on Structuring Partner and Sales Organizations Key Takeaways 1. Building Partnerships: Alan emphasizes aligning with the CEO, CRO, and CFO on a North Star goal to enhance sales productivity through partnerships. 2. Hyperscaler Strategies: Transforming relationships with cloud giants involves multi-cloud capabilities, leveraging marketplaces, and executive alignment. 3. Transition to Cerebras: Alan's move to Cerebras highlights the competitive AI chip market and the importance of scaling partnerships with hyperscalers and OEMs. 4. CEO Advice: Splitting the CRO role into separate heads for sales and partnerships is crucial in today's tech landscape. Key Quotes - "Being an immigrant in America, it's not always easy if you're first generation. So there is some challenges." - Alan Chhabra - "Losses can be turned into wins, but you got to be strategic about it, and you need a partner org to go do it." - Alan Chhabra - "How do you see the role of partnerships evolving in the next five years?" - Asher Mathew - "What are the key elements that make a partnership truly successful?" - Kelly Sarabyn

In this Unlearn episode, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Jason Graefe, a seasoned Microsoft executive. With over two decades at Microsoft, Jason shares his journey from a field seller to leading Microsoft's engagement with software development companies. This episode explores leadership lessons, the transformative impact of generative AI, and Microsoft's strategic approach to partnering with software companies. Chapters: - 01:02 - Jason Graefe's Career Journey at Microsoft - 04:36 - Leadership Lessons - 22:10 - Microsoft's Engagement with Software Companies - 25:19 - The Impact of Generative AI on Software Development - 44:50 - Working with Satya Nadella - 48:09 - Improving Microsoft's Partner Engagement Key Takeaways: 1. Leadership Philosophy: Drawing from Jack Nicklaus, Jason emphasizes focusing on solutions rather than problems, a mindset crucial for effective leadership. 2. AI's Role in Development: Generative AI is rapidly changing the software landscape, and companies must strategically integrate it to enhance their core strengths. 3. Strategic Partnerships: Clear communication and tailored approaches are vital for successful partnerships, as emphasized by Jason's experiences at Microsoft. 4. Satya Nadella's Leadership: Jason admires Nadella's ability to balance high-level strategy with technical detail, a skill that defines effective leadership. Key Quotes: - "Our job is to really help software development companies build their businesses and build them on our platform." - Jason Graefe - "It's fascinating to see how leadership philosophies can transform not just a team, but an entire organization." - Asher Mathew - "Understanding the nuances of partnership engagement is crucial for long-term success." - Kelly Sarabyn

In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn chat with Anwar Haneef, Head of Ecosystem at Canva, about the company's innovative approach to empowering developers. Anwar explores Canva's ecosystem, showcasing tools like the Apps SDK and Connect API, which enable seamless integrations across platforms. He shares insights on Canva’s expansive reach, partnerships with industry giants like Meta and Salesforce, and how the $50 million Developer Innovation Fund supports sustainable ecosystem growth. Tune in for a look at how Canva is shaping the future of design, collaboration, and developer success. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:19 - Canva's Developer Ecosystem and Infrastructure 06:39 - Examples of Canva's Developer Integrations 12:56 - Diversity of Canva's Ecosystem and User Community 19:48 - Monetization Strategy for Canva's Developer Ecosystem 31:25 - Canva's Innovation Fund and Long-Term Sustainability 33:00 - Go-to-Market Strategies with Partners 39:14 - Team Structure and Organizational Design 54:12 - Final Thoughts and Future Plans Final Thoughts and Future Plans Anwar shared that Canva is focused on enhancing functionality and support for developers, including introducing new integrations and tools. He also mentioned a selective approach to onboarding new partners for the premium app program, prioritizing quality and user value.  Key Takeaways -  Developing a sustainable monetization model for a developer ecosystem is crucial, beyond just relying on fixed funding sources. Encouraging a freemium approach and revenue sharing can create a self-sustaining economy. Aligning deeper go-to-market relationships between partnerships, product, and sales teams can be challenging, but is important to provide a cohesive experience for customers and partners. Organizing teams around "super groups" or pods that have cross-functional autonomy can foster faster innovation and better integration between different disciplines like product, engineering, and partnerships. Empowering teams to focus on "doing the work" rather than rigid hierarchies and titles can promote a more collaborative and nimble culture Designing the business model and user experience upfront, before extensive development, can lead to better outcomes than a "build first, design later" approach. Key Quotes -  "Before we start anything, we usually spend a lot of time designing it first. This creates a much better experience because it ensures everything is well-articulated and users are properly guided. When you focus on design upfront, you can build faster, as many of the issues that arise from building first and designing later are avoided." - Asher Mathew "We want Canva to be wherever there is an intention for design. Whether it's creating a QBR, designing a t-shirt, or planning team swag, we aim to be available anytime, anywhere, for any user with design needs." - Anwar Haneef"Many platforms say, 'We've made ourselves extensible—come build on us,' but Canva has gone beyond that. Not only has it made itself extensible, but it has also made it incredibly easy to embed Canva into other products. This allows users to access Canva seamlessly within those products, maintaining a consistent experience." - Kelly Sarabyn