Psychedelic Salon

Guest speaker: Susan Blackmore PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 03:30 Jon Hanna introduces Susan Blackmore 08:04 "A lot of people kind of think that scientists like myself are kind of pushing the problem [of what is consciousness] away, some are, but there’s a huge excitement about what we do with this mystery, and it’s a very strange mystery indeed." 09:22 "That’s what we mean by consciousness, in contemporary science, what it’s like for you." 09:38 Susan talks about ‘the great chasm’ between mind and brain, sometimes called the ‘fathomless abyss’ . . . "It’s the chasm between subjective, how it is to me, and objective, how we believe it must be in the real physical world. Don’t underestimate this problem." 11:48 "So that’s the sense in which I mean consciousness might be an illusion: not what it seems to be." 18:48 Susan begins her discussion about free will. 24:34 "You can see the readiness potential building up in someone’s brain a long time, a long time in brain terms, before they know they are spontaneously and freely act." 26:56 "We can believe that free will is an illusion. That’s my preferred solution. I don’t want to press it on you, but it seems this way: When you look at these results, and many other results too, consciousness just doesn’t seem to be the thing that starts things off." 51:07 "I suggest, that when you’re walking around in your ordinary life, just realize how much you are not seeing, but you are not seeing it all." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option Books discussed in this podcast            The Meme Machine by Susan Blackmore Consciousness: An Introduction by Susan Blackmore Conversations on Consciousness: What the Best Minds Think about the Brain, Free Will, and What It Means to Be Human by Susan Blackmore Consciousness Explained by Daniel C. Dennett Susan Blackmore’s books on Amazon.com

Guest speaker: Andrew Weil PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) NOTE: All quotes below are by Dr. Andrew Weil 04:41 "There are no good or bad drugs. Drugs are what we make of them. They have good and bad uses." 05:04 "I know of no culture in the world at present or any time in the past that has not been heavily involved with one or more psychoactive substances." 06:33 "Alcohol, any way you look at it, is the most toxic and most dangerous of all psychoactive drugs. In any sense, in terms of medical toxicity, behavioral toxicity, there is no other drug for which the association between crime and violence is so clear cut . . . and tobacco, in the form of cigarettes is THE most addictive of all drugs." 08:47 "What could be a more flagrant example of drug pushing than public support of that industry [tobacco and cigarettes]." 12:38 "I see a great failure in the world in general to distinguish between drug use and drug abuse." 16:25 "Another very common use, in all cultures, of psychoactive substances is to give people transcendent experiences. To allow them to transcend their human and ego boundaries to feel greater contact with the supernatural, or with the spiritual, or with the divine, however they phrase it in their terms." 17:54 "Drugs don’t have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people." 19:59 "Why is it that the human brain and plants should have the same chemicals in them?" 22:39 "The effects of drugs are as much dependent on expectation and setting, on set and setting, as they are on pharmacology. We shape the effects of drugs. All drugs do is make you feel temporarily different, physically and psychologically." 25:26 "The effects of drugs can be completely shaped by cultural expectations, by individual expectations, by setting as well." 28:22 "The manner of introducing a drug into the body is crucially determinant of the effects the people experience. And especially of its adverse effects, both short term and long term." 31:51 "I think it’s unfortunate that in this culture we have fallen so much into the habit of relying on refined, purified durative of plants, in highly concentrated form, both for recreational drugs and for medicine. And have formed the habit of thinking that this is somehow more scientific and effective, that botanical drugs are old-fashioned, unscientific, messy. In fact, they’re much safer, and sometimes the quality and effects are better." 32:55 "It’s we who determine whether drugs are destructive or whether they’re beneficial. It’s not any inherent property of drugs." 41:36 "The use of yage, or ayahuasca, in Amazonian Indian cultures is often credited with giving people visions that have valid content." 50:25 "But I think healing, like religious experience, is an innate potential of the body. It’s not something that comes in a drug. All a drug can do is give you a push in a certain direction, and I think that even there expectation plays a great role in that." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option   Chocolate to Morphine: Understanding Mind-Active Drugs (Published 1983) From Chocolate to Morphine: Everything You Need to Know About Mind-Altering Drugs (Published 2004)

Guest speaker: Terence McKenna PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 05:33 Terence begins with a discussion of "the felt presence of immediate experience." 08:10 Terence McKenna: "The thing I like about the Zippy culture and the house, trance-dance, techno culture is that it’s about feeling. The combination of young people, drugs, a fairly sexually charged social environment, and syncopated music is just all designed to draw you into you and your friends and your scene, and your hood, and your place in the cosmos and not sell you out as a consumer to Hollywood, or Manhattan-manufactured forms of entertainment." 10:01 Terence McKenna: "The culture is so capable of assimilating and disarming its critics through hype and fashion. I mean, I was horrified to see that ad, ‘Alan Ginsberg work kakis’. Did you see that!" 12:28 Terence McKenna: "What Rupert’s [Sheldrake] theory carries as an implication is what Prigogine now proclaims, which is, what we thought were eternal natural laws are simply something more like habits. Habits of Nature." 26:49 Terence begins his discussion of paradigm shift. 28:57 Terence McKenna: "So, human freedom is the precondition for the assumption of man’s flaw, man’s fall. You know, what Thomas Aquinas called the felix culpa, the happy flaw." 30:12 Terence McKenna: "A paradigm is a lens through which you see the world, and everything is transformed when you look through this lens." 32:42 Terence McKenna: "If habit is to replace law, then the universe is more like an organism. It’s more like a creature. It learns, It gains experience. As it matures it changes its strategy. As it expands its experience it gains new domains of emergent subtlety." 36:36 Terence McKenna: "The dimension of human freedom is a precondition for guilt. Only the free can be guilty because only the free can be responsible for what they do." 48:37 Terence McKenna: "What we call nature is a novelty-conserving engine, that what nature glories in is novelty." 49:48 Terence McKenna: "Sometimes for ‘novelty’ I’ve used the phrase ‘density of connection.’ " 1:01:13 Terence McKenna:"And when you think about it, if you really believe in eternal laws of nature then you have a philosophical mess on your hands." 1:05:35 Terence McKenna: "Mind is a phenomenon of metabolic activity. So far as we know, where there is not metabolism there is not consciousness." 1:12:35 Terence begins a discussion about memes. 1:27:49 Terence McKenna: "We are very fortunate to live through an age of enormous reappraisal." 1:30:17 Terence McKenna: "Humor is an admission of ignorance. Ignorance is the precondition for knowledge. And in a sense, to take it to a deeper level, magic is a deeper perception than science. Because science believes that the world is truly there it is naive in its emphericism. Magic knows that the world is made of language. That the world is the construct of forceful imagination. And the people who don’t know this are walking around in the world of the people who do." 1:31:27 Terence McKenna: "Do not lease other people’s linguistic structures and live in them. Build your own virtual worlds. Build your own values and your own house of mirrors." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speakers: Lorenzo & James PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 07:17 James and Lorenzo begin a discussion about the fortuitous ways in which people come into contact with ayahuasca. 17:30 James describes the preparation of the ayahuasca brew the day of their ceremony. 24:05 Lorenzo and James begin a discussion of purging during the ayahuasca experience. 30:31 James explains the difference between a shaman and a yachak among the indigenous Qechua people of Ecuador. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speakers: Sasha Shulgin and Terence McKenna PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 10:09 Sasha Shulgin: "First, I am a very firm believer in the reality of balance in all aspects of the human theater." 11:00 Sasha Shulgin: "One definition of the tools I seek is that they may allow words of a vocabulary, a vocabulary that might allow each human being to more consciously — and more clearly — communicate with the interior of his own mind and psyche. This may be called a vocabulary of awareness." 17:47 Sasha Shulgin: [After a discussion of nuclear weapons.] "And to have such power leads to the threat to use such power, which – in time – will actually lead to its use. But, as I have said earlier, when one thing develops, there seems to spring forth a balancing, a compensatory counterpart. This balance can be realized with the psychedelic drugs. What had been simply tools for the study of psychosis (at best), or for escapist self-gratification (at worst), suddenly assumed the character of tools of enlightenment, and of some form of transcendental communication." 19:24 Sasha Shulgin: "But I feel — along with many others — that the efforts being invested in the technology of destruction does not allow sufficient time. It is possibly only with the psychedelic drugs that words of vocabulary can be established, which might tunnel through the subconscious between the conflicting aspects of the mind and psyche. It is here that I feel my skill lies, and this is exactly why I do what I do." 31:42 Sasha Shulgin: "My personal philosophy might well be lifted directly from Blake: ‘I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man’s.’ I may be wrong, but I must do what I can. And I will do what I can as fast as I can." 38:44 Terence McKenna: "The shaman is a very peculiar figure. He is critical to the functioning of the psychological and social life of his community, but in a way he is always peripheral to it. He lives at the edge of the village. He is only called upon in matters of great social crisis. He is feared and respected. And this might be a description of these hallucinogenic substances." 40:15 Terence McKenna: "Marcel Eliade took the position that hallucinogenic shamanism was decadent, and Gordon Wasson, very rightly I believe, contravened this view and held that actually it was very probably the presence of the hallucinogenic drug experience in the life of early man that lay the very basis for the idea of the spirit." [NOTE: Graham Hancock's book, Supernatural, provides a detailed investigation of this subject.] 41:46 Terence McKenna: "The traditional manner of taking psilocybin is to take a very healthy dose, in the vicinity of 15 mg. on an empty stomach in total darkness." 44:45 Terence McKenna: "The Logos is a voice heard, in the head. And the Logos was the hand on the rudder of human civilization for centuries, up until, in fact, the collapse of the ancient mystery religions and the ascendancy of Christianity to the status of a world religion." 47:36 Terence McKenna: "It’s my belief that one of the unconscious reasons which underlies the odd attitude of the establishment toward hallucinogens is the fact that they bring the mystery to the surface as an individual experience. In other words, you do not understand the psychedelic experience by getting a report from Time magazine or even the Economist. You only understand the psychedelic experience by having it." 49:47 Terence McKenna: "And yet, WE are the culture that is in crisis. When you go to the rain forest you don’t find cultures in crisis except to the degree that they are being impacted by us." 50:24 Terence McKenna: "What he [R. Gordon Wasson] discovered, in the mountains of Mexico, was nothing less than Eros, sleeping but alive. The body of Osiris preserved over an entire astrological age, metaphorically speaking. In other words, that to take the mushroom was to transcend the cultural momentum of the past couple of millennia and return to a world where the Logos was a realized phenomena." 54:00 Terence McKenna: "Spaceflight is nothing less than the exterior metaphor for the shamanic voyage. In other words, in our terms, the hallucinogenic experience. This is the way engineers get high. They go to the moon!" 55:05 Terence McKenna: "And that we cannot go to space with our feet in the mud. Nor can we in fact turn ourselves into an eco-sensitive hallucinogenic-based culture on Earth unless we fuse these dichotomous opposites. It is only in a coincidencia oppositorum, a union of opposites, that does not strive for closure, that we are going to find cultural sanity. And this is the thing that the entheogens, the hallucinogens, deliver with such clarity and regularity. They raise paradox to a level of intensity that no one can evade." 56:15 Terence McKenna: "If I can paraphrase Teilhard de Chardin for a moment, he said, or I will paraphrase in this way, ‘When the human race understands the potential of the hallucinogenic drug experience, it will have discovered fire for the second time.’ " 57:02 Terence McKenna: "Since the very beginning of culture, what we seem to be are animals which take in raw material and excrete it imprinted with ideas." 57:20 Terence McKenna: "Looking toward the day when all physical constraints can be lifted off of us, as they are in our imaginations, and we can erect the kind of civilization that we want to erect." 1:00:41 Terence McKenna: "The idea of psychedelic societies is something new. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone takes the drug. It merely means that the complexity and the mysteriousness of mind are centered in the consciousness of the civilization as the mystery which it comes from and which it must relate to in order to be relevant." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speakers: Richard Glen Boire, Erik Davis, and John Gilmore PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 05:08 Richard Glen Boire: "What if the government could inoculate you so you couldn’t get high, so if you took a drug it didn’t work in you?" 07:53 Richard begins a discussion about the U.S. Government’s research into anti-drug drugs, which he calls "Neurocops". "So the question is, is it actually possible to treat illegal drug use with other drugs?" 08:25 Richard Glen Boire: "What I think the drug war is about to become is like truly a "drug" war. The war of your favorite drug against the government’s anti-drugs." 09:09 Richard Glen Boire: "One of those ["anti-high"] vaccines that is now under production (they have these for all the major classes of illegal drugs right now, including marijuana), and this is the one that’s been tested now in humans, is only known as SR141716." 10:10 Richard Glen Boire: "The most recent Drug Control Strategy Report, this year’s, has this term, ‘compassionate coercion’. This is a real government publication. [quoting] ‘Compassionate coercion requires the use of innovative techniques for fighting addiction, such as specialized pharmeceuticals." 15:40 Richard Glen Boire: "What makes this kind of thinking by the government possible: That we’re going to create a vaccine, and you druggies are going to get it so you don’t continue to transmit your disease, is what’s made the drug war itself possible, which is the government’s total disrespect for what we call Cognitive Liberty. And that is the right to control your own neurochemistry, to think the thoughts you want to think triggered by whatever inputs those may be as long as you’re not causing harm to others." 16:43 Richard Glen Boire: "I think we need in this country a Roe v. Wade of the mind." 17:11 Introduction of Erik Davis who talks about "Waking Up In The Matrix" 20:16 Erik Davis: "What I talk about in Techgnosis is the way this sort of Gnostic hunch, this sense that there is some kind of false construct that I’m in is really part and parcel of technological society." 21:02 Erik Davis: "By ’spirituality’ I really mean something very simple, which is the process of inquiry. And I mean inquiry on multiple levels. . . . Constant inquiry, such as ‘what is going on here?’ " 30:14 Erik Davis: "As Dale Pendell said in a line that has just stuck with me, ‘When one learns to face the gods directly one no longer fears facing a king." 30:37 Introduction of John Gilmore who talks about our Constitutional rights of anonymous travel and speech. 32:48 John Gilmore: "When the government says, ‘Terror . . . danger . . . evil . . . trouble,’ people sort of zoom in and look at that stuff. Instead, I kind of back away and say, ‘What are they doing around the edges while they’re trying to get your attention over here?’ " 34:10 John Gilmore: "If you focus on the ability of individuals to do evil you forget about the ability of individuals to do good." 36:40 John Gilmore: "The Bill of Rights, the Constitution, these are memes. They’re not alive. They’re not self-executing. They require human hosts to carry them and spread them around, and I’ve been infected by that meme, and I’m carrying it around." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speaker: Gary Fisher PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 04:20 Gary tells about his encounter with an extraterrestrial. 07:11 Stories of another encounter with otherworldly entities, this time in the desert. 09:40 The story about a man who always longed for a UFO experience. 11:36 Gary tells why he thinks extraterrestrials are visiting the Earth. 14:33 Gary tells the story of when Timothy Leary was driving him to their compound in Mexico, and Gary suddenly had an intuition that reflected back to both a psilocybin experience and a past life experience. 17:07 Gary Fisher: "In the esoteric world those are called ’sleeping karmas’, and you’ll run into a person who’s happy all the time, everything goes well for them. They don’t have any hysterics in their life, and they’re having sleeping karma. They just come in to relax." 18:15 Gary tells the story of his Caribbean adventure with Tim Leary and company. 26:55 Beginning of a discussion about Alan Watts and the time he went to Mexico for a psychedelic mushroom session with Maria Sabina and ended up getting married to Mary Jane on the spur of the moment. 29:46 Gary Fisher: "At one dinner this very proper lady said, ‘Well Doctor Watts, what do you hope to gain from your next experience with LSD?’, and Alan said, ‘Another book!’ " 35:29 We begin a brief discussion of Tim Leary. . . . Gary Fisher: "Well, he was a drunken Irishman with a silver tongue. . . . He wanted to be rich, and he wanted to be famous. Those were his two goals in life." 44:26 Gary discusses several issues relating to the age at which it may be appropriate to begin using psychedelics. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speaker: Gary Fisher PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) Our conversation began by looking at photos of some of Gary’s former students, patients, and famous friends. 13:12 We begin a discussion of Gary’s work in the 1960s with severely emotionally disturbed children suffering from variants of childhood schizophrenia and infantile autism who he treated with LSD and psilocybin. 16:36 Al Hubbard is discussed 18:23 Gary Fisher: "All our model was from Hubbard, because Hubbard was the guy who taught my brother-in-law and Duncan Blewett. . . . He was the father of all this stuff. . . . He was the one who introduced Osmond and Hoffer to this whole approach." 25:45 Gary provides more details about his work with the severely disturbed children, beginning with the story of Nancy’s nearly miraculous improvement after being treated with LSD. 35:59 Gary describes the deplorable conditions in the public hospital wards where severely disturbed children were being held. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option THE LINKS BELOW will take you to several articles by Dr. Fisher that have been posted on the Web stie of the Albert Hofmann Foundationin The Gary Fisher Collection: Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin by Gary Fisher, Ph.D. A Note of the Successful Outcome of a Single Dose LSD Experience in a Patient Suffering from Grand Mal Epilepsy Gary Fisher, Ph.D. Some Comments Concerning Dosage Levels Of Psychedelic Compounds For Psychotherapeutic Experiences [Print-friendly copy] by Gary Fisher, Ph.D. Death, Identity, and Creativity by Gary Fisher, Ph.D. Successful Outcome of a Single LSD Treatment in a Chronically Dysfunctional Man by Gary Fisher, Ph.D. The Psychotherapeutic Use Of Psychodysleptic Drugs by Gary Fisher, Ph.D. and Joyce Martin M.D. Psychotherapy for the Dying: Principles and Illustrative Cases with Special Reference to the use of LSD by Gary Fisher, Ph.D.; Assistant Professor, Division of Behavioral Sciences and Health Education, School of Public Health. University of California, Los Angeles Counter-Transference Issues in Psychedelic Psychotherapy by Gary Fisher, PH.D

Guest speaker: Charles S. Grob, M.D. PROGRAM NOTES: (Minutes : Seconds into program) 03:20 Charlie talks about how he got into psychedelic research. 07:47 Charlie: "My interest has always been in studying the potential therapeutic effects of MDMA. I’ve always had concerns about use and abuse of the recreationally drug ecstasy. Now early on in the history of this drug, ecstasy was almost always MDMA, but over the years there has been more and more drug substitutions, to the point where now with ecstasy I think there’s less reliability in regards to it being the drug you think it is than for any other drug I’m aware of." 09:25 Charlie describes the process of obtaining approval to conduct clinical research using psychedelic drugs. 16:29 Charlie:"If you have some ambition to work in this area you have to develop certain character qualities, like having a lot of patience and persistence." 18:13 Charlie discusses the relative merits of MDMA vs. psilocybin in the treatment of end stage cancer patients who are also suffering from anxiety. 22:33 Charlie: "So MDMA might turn out to be a very valuable compound to use with a chronic PTSD patient group, but in a medically ill group, over the years I began to question that and decided that psilocybin would be significantly safer." 20:43 Charlie begins his discussion of the human safety study of MDMA that he conducted. 23:03 Charlie: "A relative risk in regards to recreational use of MDMA is that a lot of people are oblivious to the fact that different drugs can interact with one another, and people who may have medical conditions, on medication, who then take ecstasy, which is often, though not always, MDMA, that there may be a drug-drug interaction which can cause injurious effects." 28:50 Lorenzo changes the subject by asking, "What do you tell your kids other than ‘just say no’?" . . . Charlie: "Often the most helpful thing you can do is simply be honest, and to provide the young people with the information we know today." 29:28 Charlie explains ways that the street drug ecstasy can cause significant medical problems when not properly used. 34:11 Charlie talks about the work done my Humphry Osmand, Abram Hoffer, Duncan Blewett, and others in Canada when they successfully treated and cured alcoholics using LSD as a catalyst that changing their lives. 36:17 Charlie: "It seems to me there are some very interesting implications here for Osmand’s old work with alcoholics as well as some of our more recent observations with the ayahuasca church as well as others who have observed a similar process in the Native American Peyote Church." Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

Guest speaker: Jon Hanna PROGRAM NOTES: Jon Hanna enjoying an energy dring while visiting the Shulgins.Photo credit: Marc Franklin (Lordnose) (c) 2007 (Minutes : Seconds into program) 06:19 Jon tells about starting the publication of The Psychedelic Resource List. 08:32 Lorenzo and Jon discuss articles in the current issue of Entheogen Review, including "DMT for the Masses" and "Security Issues in the Underground". 13:14 Jon talks about the problem of mis-labeling of botanicals that are sold on the Internet. 18:29 The discussion turns to security issues in the psychedelic community. 23:33 Halperngate and John Halpern as a DEA snitch discussed at Burning Man. 28:08 Jon Hanna: "Kind of the Golden Rule in our community is ‘Thou shallt not snitch.’ That’s the glue, the trust, that holds us all together as a community." 31:54 Jon talks about his current research into energy drinks. 46:11 The horrors of a $6.57 a day energy drink habit?!? 50:06 Jon reads the warning label on an energy drink can 1:04:46 Jon raves about the apocalyptic visionary painter,Joe Coleman. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option Mind States Conferences (click) Psychedelic Resource List by Jon Hanna Essays Discussed in this Podcast "Halperngate" "Halperngate II" "The Bad Shaman Meets the Wayward Doc"   "Bogus Kratom Market Exposed" Psychedelic Shamanism by Jim DeKorne