ASCO Daily News

Dr. Shaalan Beg and Dr. Mohamed Salem discuss novel therapies in gastrointestinal cancers, including CAR T therapy and the CodeBreak-101 trial in mCRC, new advances in uHCC in the HIMALAYA trial, and an exciting update from the NAPOLI-3 trial in pancreatic cancer, ahead of the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Shaalan Beg: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm Dr. Shaalan Beg, your guest host of the podcast today. I'm the vice president of oncology at Science 37 and an adjunct associate professor at UT Southwestern Simmons Comprehensive Cancer Center. My guest today is Dr. Mohamed Salem, a GI oncologist at the Levine Cancer Institute at Atrium Health. We'll be discussing key posters and oral abstracts in GI oncology that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures of all guests on the podcast can be found in our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Mohamed, thanks for coming on the podcast today. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Thanks, Shaalan. Dr. Shaalan Beg: There's some interesting studies in colorectal cancer that I'd like to get us started with today. Abstract 3547 is titled "A Phase I Dose-escalation Study of GCC19 CAR T: A Novel Coupled CAR Therapy for Patients with Metastatic Colorectal Cancer." What are your thoughts on the study? Dr. Mohamed Salem: Actually, this was a very exciting study to see coming out in GI cancer, especially colorectal cancer. As you know, CAR T made its way to the treatment of lymphoma and other heme malignancies. In fact, we saw a fascinating response and outcome using that technique and that niche in the immunotherapy module. The challenge we had was that we could not replicate this in solid tumors until very recently. I'm sure you had the same thing in your clinic, too. A lot of patients with GI cancer or colorectal cancer come to you and say, "Okay, why can't I have CAR T?" And the response was, "We don't know if it's effective or if it's going to work yet." Here at our center, we had a phase 1 study, I think that was looking also at CAR T and solid tumors, particularly prostate cancer. So that I think was very exciting to see that technology is making its way to the solid tumor. I was very pleased to see this CAR T study coming out from the work of our Chinese colleagues looking into this in the CRC space. Obviously, as you know, in colorectal cancer, we made a significant advancement, but I don't think we made enough advancement yet, and especially for refractory patients, patients with refractory disease who have underwent multiple lines of therapy. And this study actually addressed the need for those patients. So in this study, that was a phase I escalation dose, very much is we looked at about 13 patients who had metastatic CRC, they had at least two lines of therapy. So in what we say is a "refractory setting," unfortunately for those patients, we don't have large treatment options. And they used two doses, the first dose and the second dose that was a little bit higher. And the interesting part is that they were able to see very nice responses on this patient population. In the lower dose, I think the response was the PFS was about 1.9 months. But when they went up on the dose, actually the PFS was 6.3 months, which I think in the refractory setting is very meaningful. And also the median overall survival for the first group was 13 months, which in the refractory setting is something we don't see often, and the higher dose was 18 months, which was even better. So there was a trend that higher doses are perhaps more effective or have better efficacies than lower doses, but also in terms of side effects, actually patients were relatively able to tolerate it well, and there were no surprising adverse events. So again, yes, that's 13 patients in total. So it's a very small study, but like everything else, the proof of concept sometimes is the first step and it's very important to see that data to suggest that this technology now can be utilized in solid tumors and CRC, especially now there is an unmet need for those patient populations. I'm sure you and I will see a lot of patients at the clinic with good progress status, and just looking for the next option, and I'm glad to see that. Hopefully, we can continue to build on that work. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Another key abstract in colorectal cancer is Abstract 3513, the CodeBreak 101 study. This is a phase 1b safety efficacy trial of sotorasib plus panitumumab and chemotherapy with FOLFIRI for previously treated KRAS-G12C mutated colorectal cancer. And this is a really important study because even though KRAS-G12C represents a minority of KRAS mutated colorectal cancer, we know that this treatment can cause meaningful improvement in disease for other cancers like non-small cell lung cancer. And when sotorasib was tested as monotherapy in colorectal cancer, it saw an objective response rate of 9.7% that increased to 30% when added to panitumumab. So in this trial, they took sotorasib plus panitumumab and added it to chemotherapy to see how it's tolerated and what its effectiveness is going to look like. And they enrolled people who had more than one or more lines of prior therapy for metastatic disease. They treated 33 patients. The most common side effect was dermatologic, which is probably related to EGFR-based therapy, and they saw a confirmed overall response rate of 58%. Side effects are those that we look to expect with this specific regimen. I don't see any additional safety concerns here, but this can be a big step forward for KRAS-G12C-altered colorectal cancer. What do you think? Dr. Mohamed Salem: I totally agree. And again, it was very exciting to see that abstract and that result. I totally believe now, and I'm sure you would agree with me too, Shaalan, that we're moving from an era of one size fits all to a precision oncology and tailored treatment. And the fact now we have a treatment option for patients with a KRAS mutation is very exciting because before, we didn't have much that we can do about that mutation. So now it's not just a proof of concept. Now you're hitting that target with the chemotherapy and you're getting a 50% response rate. That's something interesting also to see for this patient population and as you highlighted as safety also, and the adverse event was not high and patients were able to tolerate it, which makes it more doable for us to use it. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Yeah. And one of the challenges in the precision oncology space, which I'm sure you're experiencing in clinic as well, are the real-world applications of precision oncology and the drop-offs that happen that are preventing us from universal precision oncology - meaning the drop-offs that we see on eligible patients receiving the appropriate genomic testing, those who have genomic testing receiving the appropriate treatment. And we've seen a couple of fairly high-profile studies that are describing this in non-small cell lung cancer where the rates are not as encouraging as we would want it to be, which to me, as a physician, makes me worried that there are people out there who we don't know are carrying these mutations or have these mutations, and it hasn't been acted upon. And related to that, there is an abstract at ASCO23, which is Abstract 3602, that looked at the real-world rates of FDA-approved targeted therapy and immunotherapy for people with metastatic colorectal cancer. They used the VA's National Precision Oncology Program data to study the prevalence of these mutations and how many of the folks ended up receiving the treatment that would be appropriate for those mutations. And this is a very exciting study. They looked at 908 metastatic colorectal cancer patients who underwent genomic profiling, 81% were colon and the rest were rectal. They found that 34% of patients harbored NRAS, KRAS, BRAF mutations, 9.6% were TMB-high, 7.7% had BRAF V600E, and 5.6% were MSI-high, which kind of puts the overall actionable variant prevalence in colon cancer at 47% and for rectal cancer at 44%. And then they went down to see amongst those 424 eligible patients, how many ended up on appropriate therapy. And these were their numbers: for MSI-high 70%, TMB-high 47%, NRAS, KRAS, BRAF, wild-type 38%, BRAF V600E 17%. So nearly 30% of patients with MSI-high colorectal cancer did not receive immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy, and again, other aspects in terms of EGFR use, and I know that there are other challenges that may affect the use of EGFR inhibitors in colorectal cancer, but it really begs the point on aspects related to implementation science, on getting the testing and acting on those results. And I'm curious to what you're seeing that's being done on these initiatives nationally. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I totally agree with you, Shaalan. This is a big problem we're facing day in and day out because we struggle to find treatment options for our patients. And I think if we're missing patient with targetable or actionable mutations and we're not utilizing that, I don't think that's a good situation to be in. And I think that's just a group effort. You have to work with the pathologist, you have to work with your team at the clinic. And as an oncologist treating this patient, we have to pay close attention to those markers. And frankly, just look for them. At least the ones that you know are going to have therapeutic implications. I do also think patient advocacy has a huge role here and huge opportunities that they can contribute. I am sure you are familiar with the pancreatic study that was published by our colleague Mike Pishvaian in Lancet a year or two ago. I think he named it the Know Your Tumor Type. I think that should be the way forward now, not just for pancreatic but for any cancer. Patients should ask their oncologists what my tumor is. Is it MSI-high, is it KRAS-G12C, is it BRAF? Because it will affect the treatment. I think it's multi-layer and all of us should work in a cohesive manner to be able to not ever miss those markers which carry therapeutic potential. Dr. Shaalan Beg: So moving on to hepatocellular carcinoma, Dr. George Lau and colleagues, they'll be sharing data from the phase 3 HIMALAYA study with hepatocellular carcinoma in the Annual Meeting that's Abstract 4004. And he looked at outcomes by occurrence of immune-related events for people who received tremelimumab and durvalumab. What are your thoughts on this study? Dr. Mohamed Salem: This was a very interesting abstract to see. For a long time, we didn't have many treatment options in hepatocellular carcinoma. So, over the last two or three years now, I think we've made nice advancements in the therapeutic landscape. So, we have multiple options including immunotherapy which is very exciting for all of us to be able to utilize those powerful drugs in that disease. The question that comes out is who actually responds? Obviously, in HCC you don't have a lot of biomarkers like the immune therapy biomarkers like MSI-high and PDL-1, and TMB. It isn't really playing a huge role in HCC. So, as you know, the HIMALAYA study is a phase 3 study and examined the STRIDE regimen which is treme plus durva in the first line of patients with metastatic or unresectable HCC against sorafenib. And the outcome was in favor of the STRIDE regimen with improvement in OS response rate and duration of response and because of that, it became one of the standards of care for that disease. But Abstract 4004 is actually asking a very interesting question - whether immune-related adverse events can predict outcomes. Meaning like those patients who experience immune-related adverse events will likely do better compared to those patients who didn't experience immune-related adverse events or not. The idea of adverse events as a biomarker if you will, for efficacy is not new. I mean we saw that back in the renal carcinoma TKI, hypertension. People who had hypertension were more likely to have a better response. In the GI also there was some data suggesting that rash might be a biomarker in predicting response to EGFR. So the same question we're applying here - immune-related adverse events can function as a biomarker for efficacy for the immune system. And there are some data out there in other tumors that may be the case, but I think at least to my knowledge in the HCC or GI, this was the first study to address that question. So just to remind our audience that the HIMALAYA was a phase 3 study using the STRIDE regimen as a frontline for patients with hepatocellular carcinoma, either unresectable or metastatic disease. And they compared the STRIDE which is durva-treme compared to the standard of care at that time was sorafenib. The primary endpoint was overall survival and they had secondary endpoint duration of response, response rate, and obviously adverse event. The study was positive, it met its primary endpoint and OS was in favor of the STRIDE regimen compared to sorafenib. But that part of the abstract now is focusing mainly on those patients who had immune therapy and whether that was a STRIDE regimen or the third arm that durva alone treatment. And they're looking at those patients who had immune-related adverse events, and those who didn't have immune-related adverse events. So basically four groups of patients, the patient who had a STRIDE regimen, about 139 patients had immune-related adverse events, and about 249 didn't have immune-related adverse events. For the cohort who had durva alone, about 64 patients had immune-related adverse events, almost 300 patients had no immune-related adverse events. And it was very interesting that at least in the STRIDE arm, those patients who experienced immune-related adverse events, their outcome was better than those patients who did not have immune-related adverse events. It's the same trend seen on the durva alone arm, but I think the number was very small to make a statistical value out of it. But I think at least in the STRIDE arm there was a suggestive trend toward the outcome of those patients who experienced immune-related adverse events. So I think this is in a way very interesting because we're always wondering if we give the same dose at least in immunotherapy like for everyone. What I was wondering is if it's too much, too little, or just right. It's hard to know for sure. But perhaps in my opinion and just me trying to understand why, in my theory, maybe that's just an indication of patients receiving enough drugs and effective drugs that will translate into efficacy. But at the same time, I also wanted to just put a word of caution here because we don't want to see side effects as a good thing. I think we want to make sure that us as oncologists treating these patients and patients also don't see like it's good to have a side effect. Side effects associated with especially those grade 3 or 4 can be associated with significant problems and decreased quality of life. So, definitely should be looking at those side effects and be careful interpreting those data. But I think that is very interesting and I will look for more work on that. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Let's move on to pancreatic cancer. We heard the results of the NAPOLI-3 clinical trial at GI ASCO and this year in ASCO 2023 we will hear the results of Abstract 4006 by Dr. O'Reilly that are presenting results of the 12 and 18-month survival rates from the study that compared NALIRIFOX or nano-liposomal irinotecan, 5-fluoro/leucovorin, and oxaliplatin versus nab-paclitaxel/gemcitabine for newly diagnosed pancreatic cancer patients. I'm interested to hear what you think about that study. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Thank you, Shaalan. So this also is a very exciting abstract to see, and anyone who treats pancreatic cancer patients realizes that, unfortunately, even in 2023, we don't have a lot of treatment options. And yes, I think over the last decade we're now talking about second-line and third-line, but yet we still don't have a lot of treatment options. So, having more options is always good. But the question now is how do you sequence those chemotherapy options? Most of us obviously use FOLFIRINOX in the first line or gemcitabine and paclitaxel in the first line. Until very recently– because we didn't have a head-to-head comparison– we couldn't tell patients for sure if one is better than the other. I think we had some assumptions, but it wasn't really proven. It was just a cross-trial comparison. So, the fact is that now we have that phase 3 trial looking at liposomal irinotecan, 5-fluoro/leucovorin and the oxaliplatin comparing to nab-paclitaxel/gemcitabine. To me, that was actually very exciting because now, at least, I can see a triplet chemotherapy drug compared to a doublet chemotherapy drug. And as you mentioned, Shaalan, the first initial read was positive in favor of the triplet regimen compared to the doublet, which I think was an important message to give to our colleagues and all of us that if you can, obviously, the triplet comes with side effects, but if you can deliver the triplet, that's perhaps a better starting point for the treatment. But the study here, we're trying to get more read after more mature or more time-lapsing. So the initial study was initial read was positive. And I think this is good to see, too because it translates that even with a longer follow-up, we're still seeing the same benefit. So the OS rate in 12 months for the triplet was about 45% compared to 39.5% for the doublet, and the 18 months, a year and a half, was 26% compared to 19%. So, definitely, you can see an improvement in every single endpoint. OS in general was 11.1 months compared to 9.2 months, and PFS was also in favor of the triplet. So I think it's a message here to reinforce what we saw a few months ago in the initial presentation that, in fact, the triplet is associated with better outcomes if you can safely manage the toxicity and guide the patient through the process. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Well, thank you very much, Mohamed. This was a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing your valuable insights with us on the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Thank you for having me and looking forward to the full presentation at the meeting. And please, if you haven't registered for the meeting yet, make sure you attend. It's a wonderful opportunity to learn from an expert in the field and also meet your colleagues and make new friends. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the ASCO Daily News Podcast team for taking the time, and also for our colleagues who reviewed these abstracts. This takes a lot of time and effort, and I think they're doing a wonderful job. So, thank you to all of them, and I'll see you all at ASCO. Dr. Shaalan Beg: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. You'll find links to the abstracts discussed today in the transcript of this episode. I'll be back to cover late-breaking abstracts and other key advances in GI oncology after the annual meeting, so please join us for more key insights from ASCO 23 on the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Disclaimer:The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Shaalan Beg @ShaalanBeg Dr. Mohamed Salem @SalemGIOncDoc Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Shaalan Beg: Consulting or Advisory Role: Ispen, Cancer Commons, Foundation Medicine, Genmab/Seagen Speakers' Bureau: Sirtex Research Funding (An Immediate Family Member): ImmuneSensor Therapeutics Research Funding (Institution): Bristol-Myers Squibb, Tolero Pharmaceuticals, Delfi Diagnostics, Merck, Merck Serono, AstraZeneca/MedImmune Dr. Mohamed Salem: Consulting or Advisory Role: Taiho Pharmaceutical, Exelixis, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Exelixis, QED Therapeutics, Novartis, Pfizer, Daiichi Sankyo/Astra Zeneca Speakers' Bureau: Genentech/Roche, Taiho Pharmaceutical, Daiichi Sankyo/Astra Zeneca, BMS, Merck

Drs. Vamsi Velcheti and Jack West discuss key abstracts in advanced SCLC and NSCLC, along with highlighting the largest known data set correlating ctDNA levels and efficacy outcomes in the EMPOWER-Lung 1 trial, in advance of the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Hello, I am Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti, your guest host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast today. I am a professor of medicine at NYU Grossman School of Medicine and the director of thoracic oncology at Perlmutter Cancer Center at NYU Langone Health. I am delighted to welcome Dr. Jack West, a thoracic oncologist and associate professor in medicine at the City of Hope Comprehensive Cancer Center. Today, we'll be discussing key posters and oral abstracts in lung cancer that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode and disclosures relating to all episodes of the podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Jack, it's great to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Jack West: Well, thank you so much, it's my pleasure to be here. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Let's begin with Abstract 8512. This is the follow-up of the Gronberg trial, the Danish trial of BID thoracic radiation for limited-stage small cell lung cancer. What are your key takeaways from this trial? Dr. Jack West: Well, as you noted, this has been presented before a few years ago. It's a trial for limited-stage small cell lung cancer and it directly compared chemotherapy with either 45 Gray or 60 Gray of chest radiation delivered twice daily. It's not an enormous study, it's 170 eligible patients. And years ago, we saw that the efficacy endpoints looked very promising for the patients who received a higher dose of 60 Gray on a BID schedule, which is above our standard. We generally either give 45 Gray BID or probably more commonly in the US and I think globally give maybe 60 Gray on a once-a-day schedule. But the efficacy looked quite promising and without any clear increase in the toxicity of it. And really, despite the impressive results, this hasn't changed practice. It is not a large study and I think that I would say that most of the radiation oncology world has been reserving judgment until potentially seeing a larger study. But what's being presented at ASCO are the longer-term results that continue to look excellent. You have a progression-free survival median of 18.6 months versus 10.9 months. That's not statistically significant but has a hazard ratio of 0.76 associated with it. And the median overall survival is even more pronounced of 43.5 months favoring the 60 Gray arm compared to 22.6 months in 45 Gray on a BID schedule that has a hazard ratio of 0.69. And this is statistically significant. The authors note that they will be presenting five-year overall survival as well. And there's also just passing mention that, as was seen previously, there was no increase in toxicity, no prohibitive toxicity. So I don't think it's necessarily going to change practice because the numbers of patients, which I think are really the leading concern, hasn't changed. But these very promising results still hold up over time and I think should compel us to carefully assess this as an option to potentially increase outcomes for this challenging setting where progress is slow to come. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Yeah, I completely agree, Jack. And I think one of the things that we have seen, at least in the non-small cell setting, like the higher dose of conventional radiation is not superior to the 45 Gray, BID dosing. I think there were some studies with CALGB and the Gronberg trial, but I think at the end of the day, it comes down to patient conveniencer. It's not often feasible for patients to come in twice a day for radiation. That might be something that might limit utilization here. Dr. Jack West: I think that's a very good point. It's just difficult when you have the potential for higher cure rates, but it is at least challenging, if not completely infeasible. But I really agree with you that that's a big part of why it's underutilized relative to the strength of the data for BID. But we have to be able to actually administer these. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: So let's move on to another trial. And again, we've seen the data before. This is Abstract 8521, the CheckMate-816 trial. They reported the three-year results of the neoadjuvant nivolumab chemotherapy versus chemotherapy by definitive surgery in patients with resected non-smoker lung cancer. What is the data that's being presented at ASCO this year? Dr. Jack West: So yes, as you mentioned, we've seen data on CheckMate-816 for a few years now. It's been published in the New England Journal of Medicine and it's FDA-approved and has become a standard of care, if not the standard of care, but there are many dimensions to this. And one of the questions has been what happens to the patients who did not undergo surgery, which was about 17% of patients on the chemoimmunotherapy arm, a full quarter of patients on the chemo arm. What happened to these folks? And that's what is being presented by Dr. Jonathan Spicer, a thoracic surgeon in Montreal who's been heavily involved with this trial. And I think that's going to be the overwhelming focus of this. And what is reported in the abstract, and I'm sure we'll see more interesting results, is that the outcomes are superior in the patients who received chemoimmunotherapy with nivolumab, in the patients who did not undergo surgery as well as those who did. Specifically, they report on the median time before death or distant metastases, and that was 24.8 months as a median for the chemoimmunotherapy arm versus 15.6 months for the patients who receive neoadjuvant chemo alone. The hazard ratio for that's 0.63. There was also a striking difference in the three-year survival rates, 36% versus 13% also favoring chemo and nivolumab. They also talked about the actual treatments that patients received when they didn't have surgery, and about 60% in both of those arms received radiation instead of surgery, and about half the patients also received additional systemic therapy. So we will see more. But I think it helps to address one lingering question of what happens to the patients who did not end up pursuing surgery and showing that the results were more favorable for the recipients of chemo nivolumab, even in that subset. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: It's simply fascinating how the field is evolving in the perioperative space, Jack. And there are more unanswered questions here and up for debate for years with the recent agent trials we had seen at AACR. We've seen the same kind of trend even with the agent, I think it was 20%, who did not make it to surgery. A lot of them are like stage 3 patients. So it begs the question, are we kind of just being more aggressive with induction therapy? Maybe some of these patients are biologically or anatomically not bound to have surgery. I mean, it's hard to really tell. Dr. Jack West: It really is important for us to still select appropriate patients for this, rather than become overly ambitious and try to shoehorn patients who are really not ideal or appropriate candidates for surgery and anticipate or have kind of aspirational resectability if they aren't de novo great candidates for surgery. We, of course, need to remember that chemoradiation followed by consolidation durvalumab on the PACIFIC trial is not some terrible consolation prize. We've done remarkably better with this over the years, and it's a very strong option. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Exactly. The other open question, but of course this abstract doesn't really address is, what do you do with all the patients who perhaps have major pathologic responses and what do you do after surgery? That's kind of an open question, and we probably need a better way to determine who might need adjuvant therapy or surgery. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. Dr. Jack West: As you say, I think that's a big question, a gaping hole in our knowledge base, but it's not addressed here. I think we are going to be struggling with that in the coming years. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Right. So let's move on to Abstract 9002. This is a report of the first pivotal study results of DZD9008 sunvozertinib in patients with exon 20 EGFR mutation. What are your key takeaways from the study? Dr. Jack West: So I would say obviously we have a couple of agents that target EGFR exon 20 mutations, but unfortunately, neither of the agents that are commercially available is especially active. And they certainly have toxicity challenges, whether it's amivantinab or mobocertinib, they both share some challenges and they're not as efficacious as some of the other targeted therapies we use in different molecular settings. So I would say there's still some unmet need here. And these results with sunvozertinib DZD9008 selective irreversible EGFRexon20 insertion inhibitor really got my attention as very impressive. These are patients who were heavily pretreated. The median was two prior lines of therapy. This is not de novo first line, and that's a setting where it's pretty hard to see response rates that are over 30 or 40%, but what they actually report is about 60.8% response rate and nearly 100 patients assessed. They also looked at patients who had brain metastases and 31 patients in their sample had de novo metastases and the intracranial response rate was 48.5%, so nearly half. This is, of course, something that we hope to see as a pattern when we have a targeted therapy that's very effective for the right target, not just overall extracranial, but intracranial efficacy. And we're going to need to see the details on the tolerability because, as I mentioned, the available agents now have the dual challenge of just modest efficacy and really quite challenging, particularly GI toxicities and amivantamab has issues also with infusion reactions. So some work there and I think there's room to improve on that. This looks to me very promising and I would welcome having the opportunity to use it in my patients who have an exon20 mutation. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Yeah, I think certainly the brain intracranial activity is perhaps going to be the differentiator here. Given that mobocertinib has limited intracranial activity, I think that's very encouraging to see. So let's move on to the next abstract, the SCARLET trial, Abstract 9006. So this is a clinical trial of sotorasib plus chemotherapy in KRAS G12C-positive patients. Can you tell us a little bit more about this study, Dr. West? Dr. Jack West: Sure. So this was a single-arm phase II trial. It's not large, it's 30 patients, but we really have yet to see results that would compel me to move sotorasib into the first-line setting. I was a little underwhelmed with the CodeBreaK 200 results that didn't beat docetaxel for survival in the second-line setting. But here it's a combination of carboplatin pemetrexed with sodorasib in the first-line setting in patients, of course, with a KRAS G12C mutation and nonsquamous histology. And the reported response rate by independent review is 88.9%, which is quite impressive. The median PFS is not reached yet. The PFS at six months is 61.2%. So I think we'll need to see the full data set, but that really impresses me as a very relevant finding. So I would love to learn more about this. And I think that if it is anything close to holding up with these response rates, close to 90%, I mean, even if it's 70 or 80%, I think that is compelling enough to really want to study this further in the first line setting and maybe a path to getting KRAS inhibitors used in the front line. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think with all the issues around the combination with checkpoint inhibitors, especially with sotorasib high liver toxicity, so I think the only way this could move into the frontline is with combination with chemotherapy, especially in certain subsets like KEAP1 CUL drug patients, STK11/KEAP1 patients where immunotherapy historically underperforms. So it'll be interesting to see how this can evolve. So, moving on to Abstract 9012, this is a clinical trial evaluating a often very neglected patient population. This is a retrospective study of chemo without immunotherapy in the elderly population of patients with PD-L1-positive tumors. So what is your takeaway from this study? Dr. Jack West: I would say that it really complements in my mind the presentation by Dr. Akinboro and colleagues from the FDA last year at ASCO, which was looking at the data for the trials of immunotherapy or chemoimmunotherapy in patients with high PD-L1 50% or higher. And what they found was that there was an improvement in response rate and progression-free survival and a trend, but not a significant difference in overall survival favoring chemoimmunotherapy in those patients. But they also noted that patients who were 75 or older did not seem to benefit from chemoimmunotherapy relative to immunotherapy alone. Now, that is in patients with high tumor PD-L1. This is looking specifically at patients who are 75 and older in Japan, 58 centers, and we're talking about over 1,200 patients, 1,245. And they looked at patients with any PD-L1. So the full spectrum, about 22% had PD-L1 less than 1%,31%, one to 49%, and just over a third, 34% with PD-L1 over 50%. I would presume the balance, that missing 13%, was not tested. But these are real-world data and they have strengths and limitations relative to controlled clinical trials. But I think that there is some power in numbers and real-world data. And what they saw was that the patients who received chemoimmunotherapy had a median overall survival of 20 months. It was 19.8 months with a checkpoint inhibitor alone. And those data for both of those conditions are far better than a platinum doublet alone with a median overall survival of 12.8 months. Single-agent chemo just median overall survival of 9.5 months. And then when they looked at toxicities, saw that the grade three or higher immune-related adverse events was clearly higher in the patients who had chemoimmunotherapy, they had a greater need for steroids and a greater probability of pneumonitis than the patients over 75 who received a checkpoint inhibitor alone. And so I would say it's not randomized data. You can only take this so far, but the fact is that it, I think, complements what we saw from the FDA. And that would help me in a situation where we need to make a nuanced decision, there's competing potential standards of care. I think this is informative along with the IPSOS trial that has been presented in some other settings and shows a benefit for in that setting was atezolizumab, I believe, first as the immunotherapy for older patients and PS2. So I think that we're seeing converging evidence to support this concept. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Yeah, and I completely agree. And I think sometimes the clinical nuances at the individual patient level, I think there are so many other factors that we can actually look at the real-world data, like, for example, tumor burden and medical tomographies. There's so many things that we need to factor into while making those decisions. Let's move on to the next abstract. This is Abstract 9022. This is an abstract looking at correlations of ctDNA levels and efficacy outcomes in the EMPOWER-Lung 1 trial. What are your key takeaways from this study? Dr. Jack West: I would love to use ctDNA for clinical decision-making in a few years. I think it could be as pivotal as PET scans, but we don't have the data yet to show that you can use the results to improve outcomes. But this is looking at ctDNA in a different setting, as you mentioned, it's looking at the EMPOWER-Lung 1 trial, which was cemiplimab versus chemotherapy in patients with PD-L1 over 50% and did not have a driver mutation. They had ctDNA samples available from 175 patients who were pretty evenly split between chemo and checkpoint inhibitor cemiplimab. What they found was that molecular response, or particularly complete molecular response, if it was seen as in complete eradication of ctDNA at week nine, so after three cycles, was highly correlated with imaging-based response for patients who got cemiplimab. It was not correlated for the patients who got chemotherapy and, perhaps not surprisingly, the patients who had a complete molecular response that was associated with the best overall survival, an immediate overall survival of 29 months compared to the rather dismal results for patients who had no drop in their ctDNA, where the median overall survival was just eight months. So, I think that it would be wonderful to be able to use this as a help. We know that sometimes patients have ambiguous imaging. There is the possibility of pseudoprogression and just potentially pneumonitis, making it difficult to interpret. I think that ctDNA could be helpful in that situation, but also for early feedback on who might benefit from intensification and adding chemotherapy, who we should cut our losses and switch to something else other than cemiplimab. And in the best-case scenarios, we do have a subset of patients who are doing extraordinarily well, potentially one or a couple of years later, and we just don't know if or whether to stop it and whether patients can do just as well after stopping after a prolonged period on treatment compared to staying on it. And we don't want to give this for years longer at the expense of cumulative toxicities and requiring a patient to come in for ongoing treatments month after month, year after year, for any longer than they would need. I think that there's great potential utility for this as a concept. But again, at some point, what we'll really need is not to just apply this retrospectively, but prospectively to guide therapeutic decisions, to see if we can have patients do better by intensifying for those patients who need it or de-intensifying for patients who don't. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: It's great, Jack. And I completely agree. I think those kinds of de-escalation trials are very much needed. I'm hoping that we'll get there very soon. Thank you so much, Dr. West, for sharing your valuable insights with us today on the ASCO Daily News Podcast. We really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Look forward to seeing you in Chicago. Dr. Jack West: Awesome. Great. Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: And I'd like to thank all the listeners for joining us today. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you so much. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Follow today's speakers: Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti @VamsiVelcheti Dr. H. Jack West @JackWestMD Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Honoraria: ITeos Therapeutics Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, Foundation Medicine, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Novartis, Lilly, EMD Serono, GSK, Amgen, Elevation Oncology, Taiho Oncology, Merus Research Funding (Inst.): Genentech, Trovagene, Eisai, OncoPlex Diagnostics, Alkermes, NantOmics, Genoptix, Altor BioScience, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Atreca, Heat Biologics, Leap Therapeutics, RSIP Vision, GlaxoSmithKline Dr. Jack West: Honoraria: AstraZeneca, Genentech/Roche, Merck, Takeda, Mirati, Regneron, Amgen, Abbvie Consulting or Advisory Role: AstraZeneca, Genentech/Roche, Merck, Takeda, Mirati Therapeutics, Regneron, Amgen, Abbvie, Summit Therapeutics Speakers' Bureau: Takeda, Merck, AstraZeneca

Dr. Allison Zibelli and Dr. Megan Kruse highlight the PALMIRA and LEONARDA-1 trials, a new standard of care in the treatment of hand-foot syndrome for patients receiving capecitabine, and other key breast cancer studies that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Allison Zibelli: Hello. I'm Dr. Allison Zibelli, your host for the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm an assistant professor of medicine and a breast medical oncologist at the Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center at Jefferson Health. My guest today is Dr. Megan Kruse, a breast medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic Taussig Cancer Institute. We'll be discussing key abstracts in breast cancer that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. Our full disclosures are available in the show notes and disclosures of all guests on the podcast can be found on our transcript at asco.org/DNpod. Megan, it's great to speak with you today. Dr. Megan Kruse: Thank you for having me. Dr. Allison Zibelli: Let's begin with Abstract 1001. This is the PALMIRA trial, a study of second-line endocrine therapy plus palbociclib in HER2-negative ER-positive patients. We all have patients who have progressed on a CDK4/6 inhibitor, and this trial investigated a possible treatment approach for these patients. What are your thoughts? Dr. Megan Kruse: I think this is a really tough space to know what to do, so I'm glad that we're getting more data to help inform our treatment decisions here. And I think it's also really tough for patients to wrap their heads around letting a CDK4/6 inhibitor go when many of them have done so well with it in the first-line treatment setting. So, in this study, patients were randomized to either continue on with their CDK4/6 inhibitor in the second line, the palbociclib specifically, along with a different endocrine therapy versus just switching to a different endocrine therapy alone. And what I thought was interesting was that the progression-free survival for both arms of the study were actually pretty similar. But that if you look at six-month progression-free survival as a particular endpoint, there were more encouraging results in the patients that continued on with the maintenance palbociclib along with the alternate endocrine therapy compared to what they received in the first line. So, I think this leaves the door open for certain patients to maintain ongoing benefit from their first-line CDK4/6 inhibitor with a switch in the endocrine therapy in the second line. The challenging thing is it's hard to know who these patients are. I didn't see anything yet in the abstract that would suggest a differential population where this approach would be more successful. But the authors do note that there are some additional biomarker analyses that are pending. So, I hope that we see some data there when the full abstract is presented to get a sense of who might be a good candidate for this approach within the hormone receptor-positive HER2-negative metastatic breast cancer population. Dr. Allison Zibelli: Thank you for that, Megan. I am not alone in finding these patients very hard to treat once they progress on a CDK4/6 inhibitor because there really is no standard of care in this space. So, I'm hoping this will provide some additional guidance for this patient population. Dr. Megan Kruse: Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. I think the patients in the second line are now very different biologically after they've received CDK4/6 inhibitor. So, knowing what to do in this space really challenges our historical standards of care and I think it's a big gap in knowledge. Dr. Allison Zibelli: Next, let's talk about Abstract 1007. This was a study about fixed-dose capecitabine and metastatic breast cancer. We all know that the package insert dose for capecitabine is probably too high, and a lot of us have been tinkering with the dose and scheduling in the absence of good evidence for that approach. This study looked at the efficacy of a lower dose with a fixed schedule. How do you think this will influence clinical practice? Dr. Megan Kruse: Yeah, I was excited to see this study. I think that has pretty immediate ramifications for what we do. And particularly with respect to the fixed-dose of capecitabine that was chosen, the authors ended up going with 1,500 milligrams twice a day, which honestly, in my practice is sort of where I end up with a lot of my patients. Even if I try to start higher based on their body weight and based on the package insert dosing, I find that I pretty much end up at 1,500 milligrams twice a day no matter what I do. So, I thought that this was a very realistic study and happy to have it as part of our collective breast cancer knowledge. The other thing that was interesting here, not only the dose that they used but also the schedule that seven days on, seven days off I think is something that we do have data and a precedent for, although it doesn't seem to be utilized from the beginning. I find myself sticking with the 14 days on and seven days off when I start patients on capecitabine for metastatic disease management. What was great in this study was that in terms of efficacy for cancer control, both dosing and schedules, either the fixed-dose or the standard dose seemed equivalent. So, that provides a lot of reassurance, I think, for us as providers, and we can share that easily with patients. But what was notable was that the incidence of diarrhea and hand-foot syndrome, mucositis as well, were all much, much better with the fixed-dose and that more limited seven days on, seven days off schedule. To me, that's very meaningful because I think we run into a lot of treatment delays and a lot of unnecessary modifications with our patients that we start on the higher dose, that maybe will have better dose intensity over time if we started with a lower dose and a schedule that is more feasible for patients and has a better impact on their quality of life. So, I think this was a great abstract, and I'm excited to see what happens with the utilization of capecitabine. It'll be nice to see some real-world data potentially, once this is out there, of what practitioners are actually doing. Dr. Allison Zibelli: Well, I know that in my case, I'm immediately calling the builders of our EMR to put this into our treatment pathways. I think that capecitabine is underused in the community because of the perception that it has so many side effects and that's a shame because it really has a lot of activity and it's convenient for patients. So, I'm hoping this will allow oncologists to use this drug more in the second-line setting. Dr. Megan Kruse: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a terrific option and it's that really nice bridge from the targeted endocrine approaches that we use for patients in the first line, potentially second line, then as they transition into needing chemotherapy and becoming endocrine resistant, having an oral option is really a nice bridge there and I'd love to see patients be able to stick with it longer than potentially some do, just based strictly on toxicity. So, I love having this data out there. Dr. Allison Zibelli: So moving on to Abstract 12005. This is a related abstract because it's addressing a common toxicity in patients that are on capecitabine, which is hand-foot syndrome. This abstract described a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of topical diclofenac to prevent hand-foot syndrome. Could you tell us more about this? And would you consider this to be a new standard of care? Dr. Megan Kruse: I would consider this to be a new standard of care. I think that this abstract is exciting, number one because focusing on symptom management is something that we need more data on. I think we think so much about anti-cancer efficacy of our drugs, which of course is our first priority, but those drugs only have their benefit if we can get patients to take them. So focusing on symptom management is key and it's something that we don't see a ton of abstracts on many times at our national meetings. And the other thing that I really like about this particular abstract is that the topical diclofenac is something that's so readily accessible. I would say that a lot of my patients have this in their medicine cabinets already because we're thinking about things like joint pain and arthritis all the time. So it's something that I think, again, is immediately actionable and it's hard to know exactly what we would do with this given the last Abstract we talked about where hopefully we're running into less hand-foot syndrome. But I see them as being very complementary pieces of data because there's no reason why we couldn't use both pieces of data together and use a more fixed-dose approach to our capecitabine prescriptions, but also use the topical diclofenac as another way to decrease the incidence of hand-foot syndrome. I don't know about you, but hand-foot syndrome is the thing that I hear the most about with capecitabine. We're always educating on diarrhea and mucositis and blood counts and fatigue, but by far and away the day-to-day toxicity that I encounter that we manage or have to take time to think about is hand-foot syndrome. So knowing that the use of the topical diclofenac decreases the incidence of hand-foot syndrome in general and particularly higher grade and more problematic, hand-foot syndrome, I think is a big step forward. Our patients are always looking for things to add to their arsenal for symptom management. So we already have a list of moisturizing lotions we talk to them about, and I see us adding this line about the topical diclofenac in there right away in June. Dr. Allison Zibelli: I agree with you. I think that there is not enough attention paid to the side effects of our therapies and I thought this was a great abstract. Next, let's talk about the LEONARDA Trial. Abstract 1017. This trial assessed lerociclib, a novel CDK4/6 inhibitor, in ER-positive HER2-negative metastatic breast cancer. Could you describe this trial and how do you think that this fits into the treatment landscape? Dr. Megan Kruse: So this trial, the LEONARDA Trial, uses lerociclib in combination with fulvestrant for patients with essentially second-line treatment of HR-positive HER2-negative breast cancer, and is randomized against fulvestrant in combination with placebo. And what we saw here I think is a pretty typical trend that we see for our endocrine therapy CDK4/6 inhibitor studies where there was roughly a doubling of progression-free survival. So the progression-free survival was 11 months with the lerociclib and fulvestrant combination compared to the placebo fulvestrant combination at 5.5 months. The response rates were also higher in the CDK4/6 fulvestrant arm compared to the fulvestrant placebo arm at 26.9% versus 9.9%. What's interesting about this particular novel CDK4/6 inhibitor is that it's continuous dosing and it's BID dosing from what the abstract describes. And I think then that leads to a natural comparison with our other continuous BID dosing, CDK4/6 inhibitor, which is abemaciclib. And so when I was evaluating this abstract, I think the efficacy results were pretty much what I was expecting for a CDK4/6 inhibitor with endocrine therapy. What drew my attention was more the toxicity information. And so when you look at that, you actually see a pretty high rate of both neutropenia and leukopenia for this novel CDK4/6 inhibitor. Those were at 90% all-grade neutropenia and 87% all-grade leukopenia. And I think that's higher than what we would expect in comparison to abemaciclib. So if you look at the results for the MONARCH-2 trial, we're seeing all-grade neutropenia being about 50% with abemaciclib. So when I'm thinking about how does this new drug fit into the landscape, you would think about patients who maybe have a preference for continuous dosing rather than cycled dosing like some of our other CDK4/6 inhibitors. But in that perspective, you'd be looking for some other sort of benefit, and I think when it comes to cytopenias, this might not actually fill that mark. It does seem to have a lower incidence though of diarrhea, so that is definitely a benefit. Here, we saw that all-grade diarrhea with the lerociclib was just under 20%, and the rate of that with abemaciclib in the MONARCH-2 trial was actually 87%. So if I'm looking for a combination of lesser diarrhea, continuous dosing, this might actually have a space. But I think it's hard to know what to do with the CDK4/6 inhibitors now that we have so many options. The selection of particular agents and the sequencing of those agents is still really a challenge. So as more drugs get added to the space, it just gets a little bit murkier about what we would choose. Dr. Allison Zibelli: I agree. I'm not sure how I would fit this into my current therapeutic plan, so we'll be looking for more data about this in the future. Dr. Megan Kruse: Agree. Dr. Allison Zibelli: Finally, Abstract 517 looks at treatment outcomes for patients with very small node-negative HER2-positive tumors in the SEER database. I thought this was very interesting because we've had very limited data in this patient population. I recently had two patients in my clinic with these T1a and T1b HER2-positive tumors, and up until now, we really haven't had much guidance. So what can we learn from this data? Dr. Megan Kruse: I agree with you. Clinically, this is a big challenge, and I think it is one of the challenges that comes about with having such excellent treatment options where we don't want to leave anything on the table for patients with potentially curable disease. And there's that specter of how aggressive HER2-positive disease left untreated or appropriately untreated is in our minds and what that could mean for patients' lives. And so I think our tendency for these types of patients is to treat more aggressively sometimes than we would need to in the absence of data. And knowing that many of our trials in this space have reflected patients with larger tumors or lymph node positivity really makes it challenging. So I was really encouraged to see these results, and it's a large study. So this is a study of almost 13,000 patients with stage I HER2-positive breast cancer, specifically T1N0 HER2-positive breast cancer. And as you might expect, most of these patients, about three-quarters, were also hormone receptor-positive. So the authors did a really nice job at breaking down the breast cancer-specific survival results at three, five, and seven years over this time frame for patients and then dividing it out into the hormone receptor-positive HER2-positive and hormone receptor-negative HER2-positive. So I think the key points to take away from this are that overall, the breast cancer-specific survival for these patients is excellent. And I think that that is probably what we have come to expect with data that we've seen from the APT study and its longer-term follow-up. What was interesting to me about this was that the use of chemotherapy over the study period from 2010 to 2019 actually increased over time, and I would suspect that APT had a lot to do with that. Coming out in 2015 and suggesting that it was possible to treat these patients with smaller tumors in a way that hopefully was meaningful without overdoing it. I wasn't really surprised to see that trend. I think the key takeaway point here is that for patients with T1c disease, those really seem to be the ones where we see a differential benefit between the group of patients that received chemotherapy and those that did not. For the T1a and T1b patients it seemed like breast cancer-specific survival at the different endpoints was quite similar and with really, really high numbers, I mean, between 98 and 100% survival. When you get to those T1c patients, that's where you're starting to see the numbers slip a bit. And with survivals that are about 4-5% different for the arm that received chemotherapy versus those that did not, in favor, of course, of the chemotherapy. The trend was actually more statistically significant for the hormone receptor-positive HER2-positive patients, which was unexpected in my mind. That might be more of a statistical change than anything because the magnitude of difference actually was a little bit stronger for the hormone receptor-negative HER2-positive patients. But I think in general, what this reinforces for me is that those smallest of the small HER2-positive tumors probably don't need chemotherapy. And that's what's reflected in my institutional guidelines, and I think I will continue to practice that way. That's really for the T1aN0 patients. For the T1bN0 patients, those are patients that right now I am recommending chemotherapy for. And these results made me wonder if it's really necessary because the five-year breast cancer-specific survival was nearly identical in this study. So I'd love to have some more conversations with folks about that at ASCO and really think about what this means for our national guidelines. No surprise, I think the T1cN0 patients will continue to get chemotherapy, and that is appropriate in my mind based on this information. Dr. Allison Zibelli: It's so nice to have data on something that's been a data-free zone for so long. So I was really happy to see this abstract. So thank you, Megan, for coming on this podcast today and sharing your insights with us. We really appreciate it. Dr. Megan Kruse: Thank you for having me. It definitely energizes me as we approach the upcoming ASCO meeting. Dr. Allison Zibelli: And thank you to our listeners for joining us today. You'll find links to all the abstracts discussed today in the transcripts for this episode. Finally, if you value the thoughts and insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a minute to rate, review, and subscribe. It helps other people to find us, and you can do that wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Follow today's speakers: Dr. Allison Zibelli Dr. Megan Kruse @MeganKruseMD Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Allison Zibelli: None Disclosed Dr. Megan Kruse: Consulting or Advisory Role: Novartis Oncology, Puma Biotechnology, Immunomedics, Eisai, Seattle Genetics, Lilly

Dr. John Sweetenham and Dr. Neeraj Agarwal discuss advances across the spectrum of malignancies, including key studies in precision oncology and disparities in cancer care in advance of the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. TRANSCRIPT Dr. John Sweetenham: Hello, I'm Dr. John Sweetenham, now the associate director for cancer network clinical affairs at UT Southwestern's Harold C. Simmons Comprehensive Cancer Center, and host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, director of the Genitourinary Oncology Program and a professor of medicine at the University of Utah Huntsman Cancer Institute, who is editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News. Today we'll be discussing some key advances across the spectrum of malignancies, as well as novel approaches in precision medicine and cancer disparities that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures of all guests on the podcast can be found on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Neeraj, it's great to have you back on the podcast today. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Thank you so much, John, for having me. Dr. John Sweetenham: Neeraj, let's begin by discussing some practice-changing phase 3 trials, starting with Abstract 5500, the KEYNOTE-826 study. This study reports the final overall survival results from a randomized, double-blind, phase 3 study of pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy versus placebo plus chemotherapy for first-line treatment of persistent, recurrent, or metastatic cervical cancer, which will be presented by Dr. Bradley Monk. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: I'd be happy to. The initial analysis of the KEYNOTE-826 study revealed that first-line pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy provided significant improvements in the overall survival and progression-free survival compared to placebo plus chemotherapy in patients with metastatic, persistent, or recurrent cervical cancer who had not previously received systemic chemotherapy and were not candidates for curative treatments such as surgery or radiation. In this study, patients were randomly assigned in a 1:1 ratio to receive pembrolizumab or placebo at 200 milligrams every three weeks for up to 35 cycles, along with chemotherapy with paclitaxel, plus a platinum therapy with or without bevacizumab. From November 2018 to January 2020, 617 patients were enrolled with 308 receiving pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy and 309 patients receiving placebo plus chemotherapy. At the data cutoff of October 3, 2022, the median follow-up was 39 months. At this protocol-specified final overall survival analysis, pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy treatment continues to show a significant improvement in overall survival and progression-free survival, regardless of whether patients receive bevacizumab or not. The incidence of grade 3 or more adverse events was higher in the pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy arm than the placebo plus chemotherapy arm, with the most common adverse event being anemia, neutropenia, and hypertension. Dr. John Sweetenham: These are exciting data, Neeraj. So the main message from this trial is that pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy, with or without bevacizumab, can now be considered as standard of care for first-line treatment of persistent, recurrent, or metastatic cervical cancer. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Yes, I agree, John. Now, moving on to a different common type of cancer, let's discuss Abstract 1001, titled "Second-Line Endocrine Therapy with or without Palbociclib Maintenance in Patients with Hormone Receptor-Positive/HER2-Negative Advanced Breast Cancer: Results from the PALMIRA Trial," which will be discussed by Dr. Antonio Llombart-Cussac. So, John, based on this abstract, can you please tell us about the role of palbociclib after prior progression on this drug? Dr. John Sweetenham: Yes. In this study, the authors aimed to determine if palbociclib maintenance with an alternative endocrine therapy improves the anti-tumor activity of second-line treatment in patients with endocrine-sensitive hormone receptor-positive and HER2-negative advanced breast cancer who had disease progression to first-line treatment with palbociclib in combination with endocrine therapy. After including 198 patients in the trial with a 2:1 randomization, 136 patients received palbociclib with endocrine therapy and 62 patients received endocrine therapy alone. And at a median follow-up of 8.7 months, the primary endpoint of progression-free survival was not met with a median progression-free survival of 4.2 months in the palbociclib-containing combination versus 3.6 months in the control arm. Also, higher grade 3 to 4 adverse events were reported in patients treated in the palbociclib arm. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Thanks, John. So you are saying that continuing the CDK4/6 inhibitor palbociclib after prior disease progression on palbociclib, even when the primary endocrine therapy has been changed, doesn't seem to be beneficial, therefore, this practice may be discouraged in the clinical setting? Dr. John Sweetenham: Yes, that's correct. Neeraj, I think that's the conclusion from this study. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So, John, now let's switch gears and highlight some precision oncology studies. Dr. John Sweetenham: Well, Abstract 3602, titled "Real World Rates of FDA-Approved Targeted Therapy and Immunotherapy Prescriptions for Metastatic Colorectal Cancer Patients in the VA's National Precision Oncology Program" will be presented by Dr. Alice Nono Djosta. Can you tell us more about this abstract, Neeraj? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Well, comprehensive genomic profiling has the potential to guide the administration of FDA-approved biomarker-directed therapies and improve outcomes among patients with metastatic colorectal cancer. So, in this study, Abstract 3602, investigators sought to determine the rates of actionable biomarkers and prescription of associated FDA-approved therapies among veterans in the National Precision Oncology Program. Patients with metastatic colorectal cancer who had undergone comprehensive genomic profiling via tissue or liquid biopsy were included between 2019 and 2022 and had 1 of the following 5 actionable biomarker profiles including: NRAS, KRAS, BRAF wild-type, BRAF V600E mutation, MSI-high, TMB-high, NTRK fusion or rearrangements. Prescription data for seven FDA-approved biomarker-directed therapies were extracted and rates of comprehensive genomic profiling (CGP)-directed therapy prescriptions were assessed by the investigators. A total of 908 patients with metastatic colorectal cancer underwent comprehensive genomic profiling, with 80% patients having colon adenocarcinoma and 20% with rectal adenocarcinoma. The combined rates of any actionable variants were 47% in patients with colon adenocarcinoma and 45% in patients with rectal adenocarcinoma. After including 424 eligible patients for FDA-approved biomarker therapy, only 70% patients with MSI-high, 48% patients with TMB-high, 38% patients with NRAS, KRAS, and BRAF wild-type, and only 17% of patients with BRAF V600E mutation received FDA-approved CGP-directed therapies. Dr. John Sweetenham: Very important data, Neeraj. What's the main conclusion of this study? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So, in conclusion, this study found that almost 30% of patients with MSI-high metastatic colorectal cancer did not receive effective immune checkpoint inhibitors. And overall, a significant number of eligible patients did not receive FDA-approved biomarker-directed therapies. So, it is crucial that we evaluate the barriers to prescribing comprehensive genomic profiling-directed therapies in our patients with metastatic colorectal cancers. So, John, let's move on to lung cancer, where the use of single-gene testing is still common in the community practice. Can you please tell us about Abstract 6506, titled "The Impact of Single-Gene Testing on Subsequent Comprehensive Genomic Profiling Success in Community Oncology Practice for Advanced Non–small Cell Lung Cancer"? These are results from a prospective observational reference laboratory testing program and these results will be presented by Dr. Mary Nesline. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yes, definitely. In this study, researchers aim to investigate the impact of prior single-gene testing on comprehensive genomic profiling success and therapeutic opportunities for patients with non–small cell lung cancer in community settings. They included patients who underwent at least 1 single gene testing for guideline recommending genomic variants in non–small cell lung cancer such as BRAF, EGFR, KRAS, MET exon 14 skipping mutations, ALK, RET, and ROS1 rearrangements as well as PD-L1 immunohistochemistry. And they offered comprehensive genomic profiling either before or after receipt of a negative single gene test. Of 580 patients with non–small cell lung cancer with the comprehensive genomic profiling ordered between 2021 and 2022, around 30% of the patients had at least 1 single-gene testing ordered prior to the comprehensive testing, with a median of 5 prior single-gene tests. Compared to CGP-only cases. CGP per cases with prior negative single gene testing was canceled twice as often at tissue review, had a higher DNA extraction failure, and a lower DNA sequencing success. CGP also identified guideline-recommended variants in genes with no single-gene testing offered during the study period, such as ERBB2 mutations, or NTRK2/3 fusions, as well as variants targeted in ongoing clinical trials in 28% of patients. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Very interesting. So John, what is your key takeaway message from this? Dr. John Sweetenham: The main message is that in a community oncology setting, the practice of ordering single gene testing prior to comprehensive genomic profiling for patients with non–small cell lung cancer is common. Prior negative single-gene testing led to a higher rate of CGP test cancellation due to tissue insufficiency and increased CGP DNA extraction failures. The practice of single-gene testing does not align with practice guideline recommendations and may negatively impact the potential benefits of CGP testing for patients with non–small cell lung cancer. Now, let's move on to another important abstract that our fellow clinicians should hear about. This is Abstract 1534 titled "Real-World Experience of an In-House Dihydropyrimidine Dehydrogenase Genotype Test to Guide Fluoropyrimidine Dosing at a Multi-Site Cancer Hospital" that will be presented by Dr. Jai Patel. Can you tell us more about this abstract, Neeraj? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Sure. Fluoropyrimidines, such as 5-fluorouracil and capecitabine, are commonly used to treat solid tumor cancers such as gastrointestinal and breast cancers. We know that severe toxicity occurs in one-third of patients, which delays the timely completion of treatments and result in prolonged hospitalization of these patients. These toxicities may be due in part to genetic variation in the DPYD gene. Five variants are known to have moderate to strong evidence according to the Clinical Pharmacogenetics Implementation Consortium. So, in this observational study, the authors describe the implementation of an in-house DPYD test and its impact on the dosing of these fluoropyrimidines, which include capecitabine and 5-fluorouracil. From March 2020 to December 2022, 491 patients received DPYD genotyping testing, and 90% of them had gastrointestinal cancers. The median lab turnaround time was only 3 days. Pre-treatment testing was ordered in 80% of patients, and 93% of patients had results before starting cycle 1. Overall, 6% of patients were heterozygous carriers. Fluoropyrimidine dose was reduced, avoided, or discontinued in 90% of these patients. Moreover, in pre-treatment carriers, 90% of patients received an upfront dose reduction, avoidance, or they even declined chemotherapy. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks, Neeraj. So what do you think is the key takeaway message here? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So, DPYD genotype-guided dosing of fluoropyrimidine, including 5-fluorouracil and capecitabine, is logistically feasible with a rapid turnaround time and can result in treatment dose modifications for most carriers, potentially avoiding or mitigating severe toxicities, especially in those patients who received pre-treatment testing. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks again. Now let's transition to studies that focus on disparities in cancer care. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Definitely. Let's discuss Abstract 6530, titled "Impact of Free Hospital-Provided Rideshare Service on Radiation Therapy Completion Rates: A Matched Cohort Analysis." In this study, Dr. Eric Chen and colleagues assess the potential of rideshare services in facilitating timely radiation therapy for patients facing barriers, such as limited transportation, financial constraints, and lack of adequate social support. So the authors analyzed data from about 2,900 patients who underwent radiation therapy and found that 58 of them utilized a free hospital-provided rideshare service. These free hospital-provided rideshare service utilizers had a lower median age and were more likely to identify as Black or African American compared to those who did not utilize these services. They also had higher socioeconomic disadvantages and traveled shorter distances for treatment. Interestingly, more rideshare utilizers underwent radiation therapy with curative intent, had longer treatment course duration, and a higher number of fractions prescribed. In the matched-cohort analysis, the study found that radiation therapy completion rates were significantly higher for rideshare utilizers compared to non-rideshare utilizers, especially for patients who were undergoing radiation therapy with curative intent. Dr. John Sweetenham: So what's the key take-home message from this abstract? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: This study highlights the potential benefit of utilizing hospital-provided free ride-share services, particularly for patients facing barriers to timely treatment. So, using these services were associated with higher radiation therapy completion rates, especially in the curative setting. So, John, there is another study, Abstract 1606, titled "Trends and Disparities in Oncology Telehealth after the Initial Pandemic Era" that will be presented by Dr. Michael Lee and colleagues. They evaluated whether telehealth utilization continued after the pandemic and if demographic differences in its users persist. So John, please tell us more about this abstract. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yes, the authors conducted a retrospective cohort study in 22 Kaiser Permanente Northern California hematology and oncology clinics between October 1, 2020, and June 1, 2022. The study investigated the use of office, video, and telephone visits, analyzing more than 340,000 hematology oncology visits with MD or DO providers. Of these visits, 25% were in-office, 37% were video visits, and 39% were telephone visits. Monthly telehealth visits peaked in January 2021, representing around 86% of total visits, and decreased to 69% of the total visits by June 2022. Video visits were more common for new appointments, whereas telephone visits were more common for return appointments. Moving to the post-pandemic period, telehealth visits remained popular, with video visits being the most commonly utilized. However, telehealth use varied among demographic populations. Video visits were a significantly higher proportion of all visits among individuals less than 45 years old, primary English speakers, patients with commercial insurance, non-Hispanic Whites and Asians, compared with Hispanic, Whites, and Blacks, and patients living in the deprived neighborhoods. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Interesting data, John. So what is the key takeaway message from this abstract? Dr. John Sweetenham: Well, overall, it's encouraging to see that even after the pandemic, telehealth continued to be widely used. However, the concerning issue is that telehealth is less utilized in patients who may need it most. The next step, in my view, will be to work on barriers to access telehealth by underprivileged populations. And that brings our discussion to a close today. Before we wrap up the podcast, Neeraj, do you have any final thoughts to share? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Yes, thanks, John. I would urge our listeners to come and join us at the ASCO Annual Meeting, not only to celebrate these successes but also to help disseminate these cutting-edge data to practitioners and patients across the world. Dr. John Sweetenham: Absolutely. I'd like to thank our listeners for joining us today, and thank you, Neeraj, for sharing your insights with us as well. You will find links to the abstracts discussed today on the transcripts of this episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. John Sweetenham Dr. Neeraj Agarwal @neerajaiims Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. John Sweetenham: Consulting or Advisory Role: EMA Wellness Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Lilly, Exelixis, AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Merck, Novartis, Eisai, Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences Research Funding (Institution): Bayer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen, AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, Crispr Therapeutics, Arvinas

Host Dr. John Sweetenham and guests Dr. Karen Reckamp and Dr. Harpreet Singh discuss the S2302 Pragmatica-Lung trial, a streamlined, real-world clinical trial that is poised to simplify and transform the entire clinical trials model as we know it. TRANSCRIPT Dr. John Sweetenham: Hello, I'm Dr. John Sweetenham, the associate director for cancer network clinical affairs at UT Southwestern's Harold C. Simmons Comprehensive Cancer Center and host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Today, we are going to be discussing a streamlined, real-world clinical trial from the Southwest Oncology Group (SWOG), which is S2302, also known as the Pragmatica-Lung trial. This study is poised to simplify and transform the entire clinical trials model as we know it. Joining me for this discussion is the trial's lead investigator, Dr. Karen Reckamp. Dr. Reckamp is a clinical professor, director of the Division of Medical Oncology, and associate director for clinical research at Cedars-Sinai Samuel Oschin Cancer Center. I'm also delighted to welcome Dr. Harpreet Singh, the director of 1 of 3 divisions of oncology at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. She will discuss the FDA's views on streamlining clinical trials to reach more representative groups of patients and will also more broadly address some of the key questions that regulators consider when deciding on whether real-world data can substitute for randomized controlled trials. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Dr. Reckamp and Dr. Singh, it's a great pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Karen Reckamp: Thank you for having us. Dr. John Sweetenham: Dr. Reckamp, I'm going to start with you if I may and ask if you could give us some background on S2302, the Pragmatica-Lung trial for non-small cell lung cancer. Dr. Karen Reckamp: Sure. The Pragmatica-Lung trial really started with the sub-study from Lung-MAP, which was called S1800A, and it was a randomized phase 2 trial that evaluated pembrolizumab and ramucirumab versus standard of care for patients who had previously received chemotherapy and immunotherapy with advanced non-small cell lung cancer and had had disease progression. And in this phase 2 trial, we found that there was an improvement in overall survival with a hazard ratio of 0.69% and survival of 14.5 months for pembrolizumab and ramucirumab, and 11.6 months for standard of care. And with that, we had again a randomized phase 2 trial, but the study was small. And so, trying to think about how to move this to the next level to get phase 3 data, we started thinking about how to do this in a way that would reduce the timelines and potentially move this treatment to patients more quickly than standard registrational, randomized phase 3 trials. And that's kind of where S2302 and Pragmatica-Lung started. Dr. John Sweetenham: So, can you tell us in a little more detail how the dramatically streamlined pragmatic design of this trial is going to hopefully simplify trial design and trial conduct in the future beyond non-small cell lung cancer? Dr. Karen Reckamp: I think the important piece of this—and we have Dr. Singh here to speak to the FDA part—but this has been a partnership with the FDA and CTEP [NCI's Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program]. Really, our goal was to try and find a way to run trials in a more streamlined way. One of our colleagues at CTEP during this process said, "If this is not making you uncomfortable, then you're not doing it right." So, the first thing we did was kind of lean into the discomfort because for those of us who have been writing trials and putting trials together for the last 20-plus years, this is dramatically different. And we're really looking at one question, and that is overall survival. We're trying to validate the overall survival we saw in S1800A. And with that, we stripped away all the unnecessary data collection that comes along with other types of registrational issues that come with randomized phase 3 trials. And then, we also looked at patient burden and really opened it up. So, again, pragmatically, making this practical, allowing investigators to be empowered to treat patients how they normally would in their own practice. And so, moving forward, again, for types of trials where we have drugs whose toxicity profiles are well known, they're used in practice but using novel combinations for a subset of patients who have limited treatment options available, this could really change the paradigm moving forward for these types of trials in multiple diseases. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, thanks. And in addition to simplifying the trial design, obviously, one of the goals here is to have a study population which is more representative of the patients who are seen typically in community practice. Hopefully, we'll overcome some of the known disparities that we see in clinical trial accrual. Could you speak just a little bit to how the study design and the organization of the study helps to achieve that? Dr. Karen Reckamp: So, I think it's on several levels, but we are looking to allow this to be more generalizable and allow a more diverse population into this study. First, by again stripping down the eligibility criteria to only the absolute essential criteria for understanding our scientific question. And so, we don't require imaging studies to be uploaded or presented. If the patient has progression, it's based on the investigator's opinion. And so, we don't need to be searching for outside scans or things like that. We don't have tissue requirements, and we don't even actually have lab requirements. If this is a patient, you would treat your standard of care practice with the standard of care regimens; those are the labs that you do. So, it's all based on standard of care. So, by doing this based on standard of care, it really allows almost any patient to enroll. And then we have outreach. We have our DEI group and our community practices very well engaged to make sure that we have broad reach. Having this open through NCTN [NCI's National Clinical Trials Network] will make sure that we get this to multiple practices in far-reaching parts across the United States. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, I think that's excellent. And you've already alluded to the fact that the data collection requirements for the study are going to be kind of pared down to the absolute minimum and that's going to include, I believe, toxicity reporting as well. So, can you comment a little bit on that and, specifically, what your plans are for reporting toxicity in this trial? Dr. Karen Reckamp: Yes, you're correct. This is significantly pared down from what we're used to doing. And so, most clinical trial offices are struggling with staffing and making sure that their patients have enough staff and that they have enough staff to get patients onto trials efficiently, and then getting the data in is always a challenge for sites. So, we have really, again, working with our partners, working with the FDA, and with CTEP, we have minimized what we are going to collect on patients. So, we're collecting survival and vital status on patients. We are collecting the background standard information that we collect on kind of prior therapies, and we are collecting only unexpected grade 3 and higher adverse events. And so, thinking about these drugs—ramucirumab and pembrolizumab—we know how these drugs work, we know the toxicity profile, we're using them in combinations and single agents in multiple tumor types. And so, thinking about most of the immune-related adverse events wouldn't even be reportable because they're expected. And so, a large number of data that is normally collected would not be collected here. And, as noted, we don't collect scans, we don't collect labs, we're not collecting con-meds, start and stop dates. A lot of that burden of data collection, but also data auditing and queries, goes away. It should be a significantly easier trial to perform by sites. Dr. John Sweetenham: And can you just update us on the status of the trial right now? Dr. Karen Reckamp: We're in the process of pre-activation, and so, if you're an NCTN site, you can actually go in and do some pre-training and take a look at the draft protocol. And we are anticipating approval sometime in early March. Dr. John Sweetenham: Great. Congratulations on getting this trial launched and underway because I know that the word "groundbreaking" is used a lot, but I think that, obviously, if this trial proves to be the success that it looks like it will be, then it's going to have, I think, major implications for study design in the future. And that's going to lead me to ask a couple of questions to Dr. Singh. And the first one of those is the FDA's decision to consider data from a simplified pragmatic trial design like this, which uses more limited clinical information, is really kind of almost revolutionary. And could you comment a little on this from the FDA perspective and how you think it's going to influence the future of clinical trials and the future of cross-trials? Dr. Harpreet Singh: Well, thanks so much for the question, and thanks for having me. I want to push back on that just a little bit because I think, for what it's worth, the FDA has been advocating for trial efficiencies in oncology for many years. And, of course, as you know, our current commissioner, Dr. Robert Califf, is very vested in this concept. And certainly, the idea of pragmatic trial has been there in the field of cardiology for some time. In terms of this trial, in particular, in coming to oncology, I do think actually putting pen to paper and drafting the protocol, which we did really in cohesion with SWOG and many calls with Karen and others who were a part of this, that collaborative piece, I think, is groundbreaking because what we saw here was a great deal of discomfort, actually around everything that we were stripping down. We sensed a lot of discomfort in terms of including various, like you mentioned, safety issues, safety reporting not being perhaps as rigorous as we're accustomed to seeing at the FDA. And certainly, investigators are accustomed to collecting other endpoints besides overall survival, like time to progression, but the real-world version of that, or time to next therapy. And so, one very difficult lesson that I've had to learn, and we've had to learn, is that you have to really learn to say no to some very interesting trial design elements that are not essential to the big question here, which is, does this combination regimen offer an improvement in survival over the control? So, while I do think the actual organizational and structural piece of this, now that it's actually stood up, is groundbreaking, I think that the idea of pragmatic trials and incorporating clinical care into the idea of answering a clinical question as opposed to the traditional randomized clinical trial is a concept that's been around. I'm just thrilled to see it actually occur in this very, I think, ideal setting for patients with lung cancer. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, absolutely. I want to broaden the scope of what we're discussing here just a little bit, perhaps to talk a little more about the "real world" and "real-world data." More real-world data is being considered in regulatory decision-making. And one of the questions I have, again, from an FDA perspective, is that everyone still, I think, regards randomized controlled trials as the gold standard for evaluating efficacy if not effectiveness, of various interventions. What are the key questions that you consider when deciding whether any kind of real-world data analysis is a good substitute for a randomized controlled trial? Dr. Harpreet Singh: Well, thank you for the question about how FDA considers real-world data when we consider this to be appropriate. There are many nuances to this. So, first of all, what is real-world data? And there's actually a distinction between real-world data, which is just simply a source used in observational studies traditionally. But real-world data is not specifically a trial design; it's just data. Whereas real-world evidence, which is evaluating the benefits and risks which are derived from real-world data, may come from things like electronic health records. It's not either-or. So, for example, in a pragmatic trial, you could use a blended approach where you have some components of real-world data or real-world practice, which we may consider kind of part of real-world data, but while retaining some elements of randomized control trials. So, I think when FDA considers real-world evidence, so I'll say that instead of data, it usually would be a source like a very high-quality registry or data obtained through a very well-designed observational study. And this would be in settings of perhaps super rare diseases in which randomization is either not feasible or, in some cases, where you may have preliminary data which suggests that randomization is not ethical. But we agree with the general idea that the gold standard is randomization. And that's what I love about this pragmatic trial, is that you are retaining the benefit of randomization while bringing pragmatic elements in, bringing the trial to patients and really incorporating clinical practice into the trial, as opposed to the reverse, where you're having patients enrolled on a traditional trial where the visits are outside of routine. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks for drawing that distinction between real-world evidence and real-world data because I think the two expressions are sometimes used a little carelessly, as maybe I just did. But certainly, one of the things that I've observed over the last several years since we started to incorporate real-world data or real-world evidence into our kind of oncology lexicon is that real-world data has been used in a fairly relaxed, let's say, way and certainly any relatively small series which has been registry based or retrospective, there's been a tendency to use this term called real-world data, which personally, I've certainly seen applied to patients who are undergoing very intensive therapies such as CAR T. And certainly, when I look at the patient characteristics in those elements of so-called real-world data, it's a long way from the real world that I'm familiar with in my own practice. And so, I do think that the term has been used very loosely. And your point about real-world evidence is an important one, I think. People are still questioning whether real-world evidence in oncology is truly valid. And I think to some extent, you've already answered that question. Do you think that there are mistakes and pitfalls that investigators can avoid when they're looking at real-world evidence? Dr. Karen Reckamp: Sure. I mean, I think the first point of clarification is, are we looking at this evidence to support use of an oncology drug in clinical practice, or are you an investigator working to bring real-world evidence to the FDA for drug approval? But either way, no matter what scenario you're in, I think the first question you must ask yourself is, is this data fit for purpose? And what does that actually mean, 'fit for purpose'? And I think it goes to things like, are the patients well-matched? So, there's this very complex process, but the concept is not complex of propensity score matching, which our statisticians do for us beautifully. But this idea of are the patients in this data set that you're looking at, this is just a collection of data, right? How relevant is it to the patient in front of you? Is there some sort of matching that's going on in terms of patient characteristic? After that, you have to ask yourself about this kind of array of epidemiologic biases that are inherent in non-randomized comparisons. Like, is this contemporaneous data? So, if this data set came from a group of patients who started their therapy—this goes to the idea of the index date, okay, start of therapy—has the standard of care changed? Has supportive care become increasingly better? Obviously, the answer to that is yes. And so, if you have these contemporaneous mismatches, then can you actually really rely on this real-world data or evidence, either one, as you're applying it to your patient? So, I think if it's for regulatory purposes, certainly you could avoid many mistakes by coming to the FDA early and often, which we always recommend. And if it's you as a clinician, as a health care provider, looking at this collection of data, I think you do have to walk yourself through in a really basic kind of logical process of, "how well does this data apply to the scenario in which I want to use this therapy?" So, index date, selection, timing, patient characteristics, things like that. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, great, thanks. And I'd like to maybe ask both of you for your comments on one final question, and this is circling back to the S2302 study. Intrinsic to the study design and the concept is that the population in this study will be truly representative of the "real world." My two questions to both of you will be, first of all: What is the gold standard for representative? In other words, what does that really mean to have a representative population of patients with advanced non-small cell lung cancer? And secondly, do you have any safeguards in place in the course of the study designed to make sure that that study population doesn't get skewed in some way so that it becomes unrepresentative of the real world? So, Dr. Reckamp, maybe I can start with you and ask you for your comments about that. Dr. Karen Reckamp: Thank you. I think that's a very good question and something that we grappled with as we designed this study and really did keep coming back to that. So, I think when we talk about representation, most randomized trials don't have broad representation. They are very specific populations that we curate in order to take as much variability out of the trial as possible so that we can investigate just the experimental arm versus standard of care or whatever we're evaluating. And here, we've consciously made an effort to say we want to know how this works in a real practice and make this as generalizable as possible while still being safe. So, we have the premise of keeping patients safe as the number one goal of this trial. And then, we want to look at the survival data. So, we actually did lower the bar a bit and changed our hazard ratio. Our hazard ratio was 0.69% for the phase 2 trial. We loosened that a little bit for the phase 3 trial, knowing that the patients that are coming on to trial are not going to be perfect patients, and there may be a little more coming together of those curves. That being said, randomization is what is supposed to wash away all sins, which has been said many times as we put this trial together. And so, the randomization is really the goal, to utilize the randomization process in order to make sure that there is balance and that we are getting representation on both sides that will help us understand how the investigational arm is really doing in this population. It's not going to be perfect, and we are allowing for performance status 2 patients. But I think we all believe that this is really important because there's a large proportion of patients who have performance status 2 who never go on to trials, but in the real world, we treat them generally with the standard of care options that we use. So, I think this is really important for moving things forward, and will be groundbreaking in that way, too. Dr. John Sweetenham: Great, thank you. And Dr. Singh, just to add to that, will the FDA be looking at this from the perspective of making sure that the study population as a whole—accepting that randomization will hopefully cancel out some of the potential pitfalls there—but will the FDA be looking to make sure that the population as a whole is truly representative of what's out there in the real world? Dr. Harpreet Singh: We always look at the population. We are always hopeful that, in general, the population is reflective of the disease for which—in this case, lung cancer. I think in this case, we were very hands-on with developing the protocol, and it is our hope and it's our expectation, and I think it very much will happen that you are going to see a very diverse and representative, more generalizable population here. I just want to add a piece to this because remember that traditional randomized clinical trials typically do have a more homogeneous patient population because a lot of this is designed around a de-risking strategy when you're bringing new drugs to market. One of the reasons we felt so comfortable stripping away, as Karen mentioned, no lab criteria. If the clinician says, "I think you're fit for this regimen, go ahead and enroll them." We pushed for inclusion of PS 2 patients. We, the FDA, did. So, yes, we're going to be looking, but we do really hope that these really streamlined inclusion and exclusion criteria allow for that. And so there's other things too, like race, ethnicity, age. And so it starts with not excluding patients based on perhaps unfair or arbitrary cutoffs like labs. Not to say that performance status is arbitrary. But in this case, if the clinician deems you fit for this therapy, that is between the patient and the investigator and their judgment, which is really part of the element of real-world trials and this pragmatic element too. I also wanted to add on this idea of diverse representation, we expect there to be a lot of extra, for lack of a better term, noise, in this trial, even though it's randomized. And so, part of the negotiation around designing this trial was the need for an increased sample size to try to account for some of what we expect to be perhaps unequal randomization, perhaps in terms of patient characteristics on either side, perhaps patients lost to follow-up, etc. And so, when we talk about pragmatic trials, one element is that you probably often may need an increased sample size to account for the increase in heterogeneity, not only in your patient population but perhaps in monitoring as well. Dr. John Sweetenham: Well, thank you both, Dr. Reckamp and Dr. Singh, for a great discussion today and for sharing your insights on these developing trends in clinical trial design. Dr. Reckamp and Dr. Singh, we'll be watching closely to see how the trial performs in the coming months and advances the concepts of pragmatic trial design that Dr. Singh mentioned earlier within the FDA. We obviously are very excited to see whether this change in trial conduct will enable you to meet new groups of patients and ultimately improve outcomes for them. So, thanks once again for being with us today. Dr. Harpreet Singh: Thanks so much. Dr. John Sweetenham: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. John Sweetenham Dr. Karen Reckamp @ReckampK Dr. Harpreet Singh @harpreet_md Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. John Sweetenham: Consulting or Advisory Role: EMA Wellness Dr. Karen Reckamp: Consulting/Advisory Role: Amgen, Takeda, AstraZeneca, Seattle Genetics, Genentech, Blueprint Medicines, Daiichi Sankyo/Lilly, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, Merck KGaA, GlaxoSmithKline, Mirati Therapeutics Research Funding (Institution): Genentech/Roche, Janssen Oncology, Calithera Biosciences, Elevation Oncology, Daiichi Sankyo/AstraZeneca, Blueprint Medicines Dr. Harpreet Singh: None Disclosed

Dr. Mohamed Salem, Dr. Myriam Chalabi, and Dr. Andrea Cercek discuss pivotal neoadjuvant immunotherapy clinical trials for patients with MSI-H/dMMR colorectal cancer, focusing on the development of active therapies in the neoadjuvant setting—where patients are treated without surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy—and the importance of patient selection in finding the right target and treatment to improve outcomes. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Mohamed Salem: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm your guest host today, Dr. Mohamed Salem. I'm a GI oncologist at the Levine Cancer Institute at Atrium Health. Today, we will be discussing very promising advancements in the neoadjuvant immunotherapy for patients with MSI-H/dMMR colorectal cancer. And I'm very delighted to welcome two world-renowned oncologists whose research has tremendously helped shape the treatment landscape of colorectal cancer. Dr. Myriam Chalabi is a GI medical oncologist at the Netherlands Cancer Institute, and Dr. Andrea Cercek is a medical oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering in the United States. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Dr. Chalabi and Dr. Cercek, welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Thank you for having me. Dr. Andrea Cercek: Thank you very much for having me. Dr. Mohamed Salem: It's a pleasure to have two world-renowned stars like you. Thank you for taking the time. So, before we start going deep into the topic, obviously, now we are seeing emerging data in CRC using immunotherapy as the neoadjuvant approach, which actually can reduce or even eliminate some of the other treatment modalities and potentially save patients from toxicities. Both of you led what I think are landmark studies in this field. I wanted to give you the chance to tell our audience about your studies and why you think they're important. Dr. Cercek? Dr. Andrea Cercek: Sure. Thank you so much. So, our study was a neoadjuvant study in early-stage, locally advanced rectal cancer with tumors that were mismatch repair-deficient or MSI-H. And rectal cancer normally is treated with chemotherapy, chemoradiation, and surgery. And the goal of the trial was to utilize PD-1 blockade alone in this subpopulation and evaluate the response. Patients received six months of dostarlimab, which is a PD-1 blocking agent, and then were evaluated for response. If there was no residual disease, they were able to avoid radiation and surgery. And what we've seen thus far in the presentation at GI ASCO in 2022 was that all patients who received six months of dostarlimab had a clinical complete response, so no residual tumor, and were able to avoid chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery and are on observation. And the study is ongoing and actively accruing patients. Dr. Mohamed Salem: All of us were very excited seeing that presentation at ASCO. And when we came back to the clinic everyone was talking about it, including patients, obviously. Thank you for this, Dr. Cercek. Dr. Chalabi, you also led a similar study that was actually presented in ESMO in 2022. Can you please give us, like, a brief description of that trial? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Yeah, sure. So, this is the NICHE trial, and actually the NICHE trial has been ongoing for quite some time now. We recently presented a larger NICHE-2 study, but basically– so what we started out by doing in NICHE is giving patients what we considered back then a window of opportunity study. We treated patients with MMR-deficient tumors, which I'll be focusing on for now, with two cycles of nivolumab and one single cycle of low-dose ipilimumab. And patients all undergo surgery within six weeks of registration within the study. And back in 2020, we published the first data of NICHE-1 showing 100% pathologic responses with 60% pathologic complete responses and decided that this should definitely be a treatment that we need to explore in a larger group of patients. And that's where NICHE-2 was born, which we presented at ESMO last year, where we treated over 100 patients with this neoadjuvant approach of two cycles nivolumab, one single cycle ipilimumab, showing 99% pathologic responses, including 95% major pathologic responses and 67% pathologic complete responses. And this was all within five and a half weeks of the first treatment with immunotherapy, so a very short treatment duration with dual checkpoint blockade. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Amazing results, too. And I know you had a standing ovation when you presented the outcome of the study. And again, congratulations to you, your investigator, and also all the patients participated. Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Thank you so much. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I guess the first question that comes to my mind - we have two trials, obviously, now we're moving from one size fits all to precision therapy, like getting actually the right treatment for the right patient. But in the NICHE study, it was a checkpoint inhibitor, and the rectal study was a single agent. I want to start with you, Dr. Chalabi. In your opinion, when should we use single agent or double blockade immunotherapy? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: That is a great question. I'm going to start off by saying that I don't know the exact answer. I don't think we know that answer. And Dr. Cercek is going to share also her thoughts on this because we're seeing, of course, fantastic responses with monotherapy as well in Dr. Cercek's study. And we've also seen that in a study by Dr. Overman with monotherapy. So that may suffice in some patients, although what we're seeing is that you need to treat patients longer, probably to achieve that response, at least clinically. And I think that is the difference with dual checkpoint blockade, that we're giving in NICHE where we're seeing these very deep responses in just under six weeks' time. So, I think it may be more of a question of how long we want to treat patients for to achieve the endpoint that we're aiming for. And, of course, there may be, at some point, patients that need dual checkpoint blockade, but so far, we're seeing great responses in both of our studies. So I think we need more patients, more data to see whether we're going to see non-responders. And hopefully, the studies that are ongoing in the metastatic disease setting will give us at least a little bit of insight into what the differences are in response to mono and dual checkpoint blockade and whether we can tell which patients might benefit more from the combination. But I think there's still a lot of work to be done in that field. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I totally agree. Dr. Cercek, same question to you. What do you think? Dr. Andrea Cercek: Dr. Chalabi answered beautifully and very comprehensively. I agree completely with what she said. It's hard to argue with the responses that we're seeing with PD-1 blockade alone. But then again, dual checkpoint inhibitors in the NICHE study with just one month of therapy had phenomenal responses as well. So I think it's a question of duration of therapy and, really importantly, what we're trying to achieve. If our goal is organ preservation, then perhaps longer duration is better. The question then becomes, can we do, should we do longer duration with dual checkpoint inhibitors versus single agent? So I think, as she concluded, I couldn't agree more that we just need more information, we need more work to do, basically to answer this question for our patients. Dr. Mohamed Salem: More to come and more studies, which is fascinating. So, Dr. Chalabi, you created actually a new term on Twitter called 'Chalabi Plot'. It was amazing to see such a response. But we're curious, among those patients who achieved complete response so far, did you see any relapse? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Short answer, no. we're waiting, of course on the disease-free survival data, the three-year DFS data for NICHE-2, and we hope to have that by the end of this year, beginning of next year. But as of now, we showed that data, and so far, we haven't seen any recurrences in, actually, any of the patients treated in NICHE-2. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Fantastic. Dr. Cercek. So I think your slide -- I remember clearly from the ASCO presentation -- was all complete response, every single patient. Same question, did you see any relapse so far? Dr. Andrea Cercek: So far, no, we have not. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Amazing. So, Dr. Cercek, as you know, and obviously, this is metastatic disease, but in KEYNOTE-177, as you know, about 30% of patients with MSI-high tumors did not respond to checkpoint inhibitors. So that makes some of us feel nervous about using checkpoint inhibitors alone in colorectal cancer, even with MSI-high status. I was curious if you can comment on this and if there is a way we can perhaps sort out who actually is likely to respond and who is likely not going to respond. Dr. Andrea Cercek: I think that's a really important question and an excellent point. And we believe that the difference lies in the fact that in KEYNOTE-177, the patients had metastatic disease, whereas in our neoadjuvant studies that we're discussing, they have early-stage disease. And whether that has to do with the tumor differences, young tumors versus older tumors once they become metastatic, or the microenvironment, remains to be determined. But certainly, there is this pattern of incredible responses with checkpoint inhibitors in early-stage dMMR tumors. And in KEYNOTE-177, as you mentioned, about 30% of patients progressed. And I think we don't know why that is. We are seeing this, about a third of progressors repeatedly in the metastatic setting with checkpoint inhibitors. And so perhaps there is a population. But whether this is driven by genomics or something else, we don't know. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Great. So, along the same lines, especially rectal cancer, obviously, because surgical resection is a key component in the treatment paradigm, do you feel patients who achieve pathological complete response should still go under surgical resection or should go under the 'watch and wait' approach? Dr. Andrea Cercek: In general, I'm a fan of organ preservation. I think in rectal cancer, the reasons are obvious. It's a challenging surgery. It's very toxic to the patients. It changes their lives forever. In survivorship, 30% of them require a permanent colostomy because of the location of the tumor. So there, the field of rectal cancer, in general, is moving towards non-operative management, even in the MSI-proficient patients, by trying to optimize therapy to increase clinical complete responses and therefore omit surgery. So that's the difference with rectal cancer. In colon cancer, it's a different discussion. I think for many patients, surgery is very straightforward. It's a hemicolectomy. It doesn't alter lifestyle in survivorship, so it's not as morbid as it is in rectal cancer. Of course, I think if a patient is older with MSI-deficient tumor perhaps can undergo surgery, then clinical complete responses become critical because then we can monitor them after just checkpoint blockade, and they don't need surgery. The challenge there, and I would love to hear Dr. Chalabi's comments on this, too, is just that imaging is challenging. We have a hard time in colon cancer determining whether someone has a clinical complete response or not. It seems to be very different than in rectal cancer, where with endoscopy and with the rectal MRI, we really can't tell whether the tumor is still present or not. This remains a challenge in colon cancer. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Dr. Chalabi, I would like to hear your thoughts and also how you practice in Europe. I don't know if it's the same like here in US or different. Dr. Myriam Chalabi: I completely agree with Dr. Cercek. Well, if we look at the rectal cancer patients, I think this is fantastic. That even though this is a small population achieving this high clinical complete response rate, not having to operate or even give any chemotherapy or radiation therapy to these patients, it is extremely important both in the short term but also in terms of long-term complications and morbidity. When it comes to the colon cancer responses that we're seeing in NICHE, those are all pathologic responses, of course. And we have been evaluating also preoperatively using scans to see whether we can assess these complete responses based on imaging. That doesn't seem to be the case. We do see responses in all patients, so we see these are all very large bulky tumors that we're treating in NICHE-2. And we do see responses in almost all of these patients, but it's not close to complete responses, definitely not in all of the complete responders that we're seeing. So that makes it difficult. And the question is, what if we would be waiting or treating longer because these bulky tumors need more time to disappear or to be cleared before you're going to see it on the imaging? So that is a question that I don't have an answer to just yet. We may be getting some more data on that with the currently ongoing trials. And as Dr. Cercek pointed out, the endoscopies when you have a right-sided colon tumor are different than doing just a sigmoidoscopy for a rectal tumor. So, we actually do have one patient who hasn't undergone surgery, and that is actually a patient with an MMR-proficient tumor within the NICHE trial who had a complete response. And that patient has a sigmoidal tumor, and he actually had toxicities which prevented him from undergoing timely surgery and now has a complete response after two years, both endoscopically and on imaging. So, he hasn't undergone surgery, and that is a great example of how we may be doing this in the future. It's an interesting case within the trial to follow and see how we can do it in the future. Dr. Mohamed Salem: That's fascinating news. So, was it MMR-proficient? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Yes, this is an MMR-proficient tumor. Dr. Mohamed Salem Wow. Any particular biomarkers that you think he or she had to predict that? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: We have treated more patients with MMR-proficient tumors. We have 31 patients, and we have seen actually responses in 9 out of 31 patients in the MMR-proficient tumors with the same combination of two doses of nivolumab and one of ipilimumab. We previously published on half of the cohort approximately on what the possible predictive biomarkers of response could be, and that was a costimulation for CD8 and PD-1. So PD-1 positive CD8 T cells. And we're currently doing the same work for the rest of the cohort. So hopefully, we'll be able to show that soon and see whether this still stands for the completed MMR-proficient cohort. But definitely also very exciting data for the MMR-proficient. Dr. Mohamed Salem: So, this is actually a very good segue to my next question because I know all of us are looking for this. Like, obviously, we're seeing a fascinating response in those patients with MSI-high tumors, but majority of colorectal cancer, as you know, they actually have MSS-proficient tumors. Any thoughts about how we can overcome the primary resistance for this tumor to checkpoint inhibitors? So let me start with you, Dr. Cercek. Dr. Andrea Cercek: I'm very much looking forward to Dr. Chalabi's data on this because, honestly, we have not seen such amazing responses to immunotherapy in MSS tumors. The initial studies were complete flatline, no responses at all. And here, she just described a patient that had a complete response to just a month of checkpoint inhibitors. So that's phenomenal, and hopefully, we'll learn from the responders. We believe that there is a subpopulation of MSS colorectal cancer that is more immune sensitive, immune hot, whichever term you like to use. And it's just a matter of appropriately identifying those patients. And personally, I think the answer lies in the neoadjuvant setting in early tumors where they're treatment-naive, not exposed to chemo, not exposed to radiation, younger, have their innate microenvironment. And so, I think it's likely a combination of the above. But obviously, the ultimate goal is to find out who those patients are and then potentially treat them just like this with immunotherapy. And that would be another nice chunk of the pie where we could utilize immunotherapy for our patients. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Very true. Dr. Chalabi, especially with your experience and just showing there is a chance for those people to respond, what are your thoughts about how we can overcome this primary resistance? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: It's great to be here with Dr. Cercek because, obviously, we have very similar interests but it's also good to see that we think the same way because I completely agree with what she just said in terms of neoadjuvant. I think that was one of the most important things that we did here, giving this neoadjuvant treatment in non-metastatic tumors. It's probably a very important driver in the responses that we're seeing. So, we've been seeing data now a bit more in the metastatic disease setting where MSS tumors seem to be responding to new generations of checkpoint blockade. And the question is how those would do in the neoadjuvant setting that would be even different than what we're seeing now. But there's definitely some proof of MSS tumors that can respond to immunotherapy. The question on how to overcome the primary resistance, I think that question is for us: Who are the patients with primary resistant tumors and why are they primarily resistant? And then we can think about how to change that and how to change them into the tumors that are responding. I think these types of data will be key to understand more and know; hopefully, even you said, in the metastatic disease setting, to make these tumors more pliable in response to immunotherapy. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I agree. So, both of you are leading us toward how to choose the right patient with the right target for the right treatment. That's an amazing journey you're taking all of us on. So, Dr. Cercek, I have to admit that with your data, it created some problems for us in the clinic because all patients the following day came in asking for immunotherapy. We had a hard time trying to explain that maybe this is not the right treatment for them or, like, not the right platform. But I wanted to ask you, if we'll have a patient tomorrow in the clinic with localized rectal cancer and happen to have an MSI-high tumor, what would be your recommendation in terms of how to approach that patient? Dr. Andrea Cercek: I think, ideally, you would discuss clinical trials with the patient. We have opened the study now to not just rectal cancer but colon cancer and, in fact, all solid tumors that are mismatch repair-deficient. So I think at this time, the patients really should be treated on a clinical trial. As we learn more, in particular, until we are more comfortable assessing for a clinical complete response and follow-up. I think the surveillance piece will be critically important. In rectal cancer, it's well established, but it's not in the other tumor types. So my recommendation would be to enroll the patient on a trial. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Just to add to that too, obviously, as you know, there is now the cooperative group trial that's looking at that option and we obviously encourage all centers to participate and open that study to have this option for our patients. Dr. Chalabi, so what do you guys do in Europe for these patients? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: In Europe, it's a very different situation. I would have answered this question differently by saying, well, we don't have that option of treating patients outside of clinical trials. So basically, we have to make sure that we have clinical trials for these patients. And that's something that we've had for colon cancer patients. That is still the case. And we're getting rectal cancer trials also for patients with MMR deficient tumors and have those also for MMR proficient tumors. For us and I agree completely that we should be treating patients within clinical trials, we don't have another option. But still, even if we did, I think it's important to create data within clinical trials to be able to ultimately also show why this should be standard of care and how we can make it standard of care. Because if you're not accumulating that data, then it's going to become very difficult if accrual is lacking. Now, we treat patients either with standard-of-care treatments, but usually, we try to find something within clinical trials. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I totally agree. And as we always say, the standard of care should be a clinical trial participation. So, I must say, both of you, Dr. Cercek and Dr. Chalabi, you made 2022 a very exciting year for us in GI cancers. You really changed the way we look at how to treat these patients and give them a huge chance of, I would say, actually cure and obviously organ preservation. So, I'm very curious to know what you are both are working on now and what we should expect in 2023 and 2024. Dr. Andrea Cercek: So, for me, the study is ongoing, as I mentioned, and we've expanded to all mismatch repair-deficient solid tumors with the same approach of six months of dostarlimab and then the option of nonoperative management. And I think that it'll be important for us to learn in terms of responses on the luminal versus some of the other tumor types, like, for example, pancreas cancer, where we don't see these robust responses in the metastatic setting, that will be important to do. We're doing some correlative analysis, as Dr. Chalabi described as well in our patients. And then, I'm interested in optimizing neoadjuvant approaches to minimize therapy in rectal cancer specifically. So, we have a study now for HER-2 amplified RAS wild-type patients with locally advanced rectal cancer with a similar approach of utilizing HER-2 targeted therapy first and then in combination with chemotherapy. In our case, it's a combination of trastuzumab and tucatinib and then chemotherapy with CAPOX and assessing for response and potential omission of radiation and surgery depending on responders. So, I'm very excited that study is open and actively accruing, and hopefully, we can get similar responses that we did in the MSI population with PD-1 blockade. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Is that only available at MSK? Dr. Andrea Cercek: It is at this time. However, we will likely be expanding, so if there's any interest, let me know. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Great. I'm sure many centers will be. Great. What about you, Dr. Chalabi? Any sneak peek in the future? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: So many sneak peeks, where to begin? I think it's very exciting to be working in this space at this time, and we're very lucky to be in it. So, for NICHE, we're actually accruing now in new cohorts for both MMR-deficient and MMR-proficient tumors. For the patients with MMR-deficient tumors, we're actually testing a new combination of nivolumab plus relatlimab, so anti-LAG-3 plus anti-PD1. And we're testing the same co-formulation in patients with pMMR tumors. In addition to another cohort for the pMMR tumors with nivolumab, all within this window of opportunity, as we did previously in NICHE, and to see if we're going to see more responses if these are going to be different tumors than the ones responding to nivolumab and ipilimumab. And for the MMR deficient tumors, we're treating longer with this combination now. So, we're operating after eight weeks instead of six weeks. We're giving two cycles, four weekly cycles, to see whether we can even improve the PCR rates, even though this is, of course, a different combination treatment. So, very exciting times for NICHE, and we'll have the readout for the DFS at the end of this year, so that's also very exciting. And then, well, it's similar to Dr. Cercek. So again, we're on the same page when it comes to these neoadjuvant treatments. We have actually an ongoing trial for neoadjuvant treatment of patients with MMR proficient rectal cancers, and that is using a combination of radiation therapy followed by a combination of atezolizumab or anti-PDL1 with Bevacizumab with the aim of organ sparing approach in these patients. And we actually presented stage 1 of this trial as a poster at ASCO GI, showing that we achieved 56% complete or near complete responses clinically at 12 weeks. And after at least a year of follow-up for all patients, we have 50% organ preservation. So those are very exciting data as well. Also, in the MMR proficient tumors, I'm very excited to hear about the HER-2-positive tumors and Dr. Cercek's study. So there's definitely a lot going on that we hope to share as soon as the data are available. Dr. Mohamed Salem: We'll be looking forward to your next presentation and seeing that. So again, most of your work showed us that we really have to choose the right patient with the right target for the right treatment to achieve the best possible outcome. So we're getting short on time here. But before we conclude, ASCO Daily News Podcast has a huge audience of oncologists, I wanted to give you the chance to share anything you'd like to share with our audience today before we finish. Dr. Cercek? Dr. Andrea Cercek: I believe this is an incredibly exciting time in colorectal cancer. I think it's finally our turn, which feels really nice, and obviously, we have a lot more work that needs to be done. But my personal belief is to keep trying to chip away at the pie and identify responders and keep working to have better-targeted drugs and better treatment options that will improve responses and improve outcomes for our patients. But I certainly believe that we are well on our way there, and it's very exciting. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I totally agree. Dr. Chalabi, any thoughts? Dr. Myriam Chalabi: I think after 2022 and the data that we've been showing, I think it's important to– and I think by now, maybe it's not even necessary anymore to say it– but I think it's important to really look at the tumors and look at these MMR proteins or MSI, and to make sure that you're treating the patient in the right way, and to consider that. Before, it wasn't as important in the neoadjuvant setting or these localized tumors, but now it's becoming essential. And I think if you would have looked five years ago and you would say, yeah, these MSI tumors are important to find, it's a very small proportion of patients, in rectal cancer even lower than in colon cancer. But still, it has such a huge impact on what you're doing in these patients and your chances of cure. So I think that would be my most important giveaway to test for MMR deficiency before deciding on a treatment for your patients. And we're working on trials with neoadjuvant immunotherapy. Also in other tumor types, Dr. Cercek is also doing the same. I think those will be very important also outside of the GI field to see whether this approach works for a much larger patient population, despite the low incidence. Dr. Andrea Cercek: Dr. Chalabi just made a critical point that that is most important is to remember that we do have biomarkers in colorectal cancer that, in the neoadjuvant setting and in the metastatic setting, especially MSI, that we need to test for. And then, just to add from a clinical perspective, in rectal cancer, the large majority of patients that have mismatch-repair deficient or MSI tumors actually have Lynch syndrome. So really, if you identify a patient that's mismatch-repair deficient or MSI-high anywhere, but especially in the rectum, they absolutely should get germline testing. Dr. Mohamed Salem: I echo that and second that. And Dr. Cercek, thank you, and I know you did a lot of work in colorectal cancer in the younger adult population, too, so I think you've had a huge impact on that area too. I would like to thank both of you again for being here today, but more for the great work you and your teams are doing to advance the field. It's really a very exciting time in GI cancers now, and thank you so much for your work and for sharing your insights with us today on the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Dr. Andrea Cercek: Thank you for having me. Dr. Mohamed Salem: Of course, and thanks to our listeners for your time today. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you very much. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Mohamed Salem @SalemGIOncDoc Dr. Myriam Chalabi @MyriamChalabi Dr. Andrea Cercek @AndreaCercek Learn about other key advances in GI Oncology: SWOG 1815, PARADIGM, and Other Advances at GI23 Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Mohamed Salem: Consulting or Advisory Role: Taiho Pharmaceutical, Exelixis, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Exelixis, QED Therapeutics, Novartis, Pfizer, Daiichi Sankyo/Astra Zeneca Speakers' Bureau: Genentech/Roche, Taiho Pharmaceutical, Daiichi Sankyo/Astra Zeneca, BMS, Merck Dr. Myriam Chalabi: Consulting or Advisory Role: MSD, Bristol-Myers Squibb/Celegne, Numab Research Funding (Institution): Bristol-Myers Squibb, Roche/Genentech, MSD Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Roche/Genentech, Bristol-Myers Squibb Dr. Andrea Cercek: Consulting or Advisory Role: Bayer, GSK, Incyte, Merck, Janssen, Seattle Genetics, G1 Therapeutics Research Funding (Institution): Seattle Genetics, GSK, Rgenix

Guest host Dr. Neeraj Agarwal and Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger discuss practice-changing abstracts that were presented at the 2023 ASCO Genitourinary Cancers Symposium, including results from the TALAPRO-2, PROpel, TRITON3, ARASENS, KEYNOTE-057, CheckMate 274, and CheckMate 9ER studies. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, the director of the Genitourinary Oncology Program, and professor of Medicine at the Huntsman Cancer Institute at the University of Utah, and editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News. Today, we will be discussing practice-changing abstracts and other key advances in GU Oncology featured at the 2023 ASCO Genitourinary Cancers Symposium. Joining me for this discussion is Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger, the chair of this year's ASCO GU. Dr. Kollmannsberger is a GU medical oncologist at the BC Cancer Vancouver Cancer Center and a clinical professor at the University of British Columbia. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and the disclosures of all guests on the podcast can be found on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod. Christian, thank you for joining us on the podcast today. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Thank you very much, Neeraj. It's a real pleasure to be here and have this discussion. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Thank you. So, Christian, the GU meeting featured remarkable progress in various GU malignancies. Could you please share some of the prominent topics that made the headlines this year and give us an overall feel of ASCO GU this year? Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Absolutely. I think it was a great meeting with over 5,800 attendees from more than 70 countries. And most of the attendees were in person, so it was a great event. ASCO GU is truly the premier global event to feature the very best of GU cancer research and treatment. The theme of this year's meeting was "Today's Science, Tomorrow's Treatment," and that was reflected in the novel scientific and clinical findings that were presented and will potentially lead to changes in our daily clinical practice. It also reminds us how quickly the development today is and how quickly novel scientific progress is immediately translated into clinical practice, particularly oncology. I was very impressed by the meeting's emphasis on diversity, interactivity, networking, multidisciplinary collaboration, and evidence-based care. We introduced several new features such as a "Meet the Professor session, a women's networking event, etc. And the first day really kicked off with a very rich focus on prostate cancer and much attention given to PARP inhibitors in our first session. As an example, LBA 17 was the first late-breaking abstract presented. And congratulations to you, Neeraj, on delivering this exciting data on the TALAPRO-2 trial, which were eagerly awaited. Let's start with that. Can you tell us about this trial? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Yes, of course. So the TALAPRO-2 trial was a phase 3 randomized trial where patients in newly diagnosed metastatic CRPC settings were randomized to standard of care enzalutamide plus placebo versus enzalutamide plus talazoparib PARP inhibitor. And as we know, Christian, the rationale has been that dual inhibition of PARP and AR may enhance the efficacy of each. And there's a laboratory preclinical rationale and based on which other studies have been done in the past. So, without getting into too much detail into the rationale for the trial, I'll come right to the results of the trial. So, this was the first-line mCRPC setting where rPFS was the primary endpoint as assessed by the independent radiology assessment. And in this trial, patients were recruited regardless of the homologous recombination repair gene alterations. So, patients were recruited and they were prospectively tested for whether they had these HRR gene alterations or not, but all comer population was included in this trial. And after a median follow-up of approximately 23 months, the trial read out, and we found that trial made the primary endpoint was improved radiographic progression-free survival with the rPFS being about 22 months in the enzalutamide arm and not reached in the combination arm with a 37% reduction in risk of progression or death. If you look at the subgroup analysis of patients who were HRR+, there was a 54% reduction risk of progression or death. If you look at patients who were stratified in HRR- or unknown group, there was a 30% reduction risk of progression or death. If you specifically look at an exploratory analysis we did to look for patients who were HRR- by prospective tumor tissue testing; there was a 34% reduction in risk of death with a hazard ratio of 0.66 favoring the combination arm. So overall, the rPFS primary endpoint was met in all groups. We also see significant delay in PSA progression in the combination arm by more than nine months. We also see delays in the time to cytotoxic chemotherapy. We saw delay in progression or death on subsequent neoplastic therapy after the protocol treatment. We saw delays in deterioration of quality of life and global health status. All these were significant and happened on the talazoparib plus enzalutamide arm. So overall, if you look at the totality of the data, these all favored the combination of talazoparib plus enzalutamide compared to enzalutamide alone. I want to highlight that overall survival is immature at 31% maturity with a hazard issue of 0.89, currently favoring enzalutamide plus talazoparib. But we'll have to look at more mature data as time passes. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Wow. Thank you, Neeraj. So, it sounds like that was a very positive trial, and it's potentially practice-changing. One of the concerns is always safety and toxicity. So can you tell us whether there were any new safety signals, and can you tell us more about the common adverse events that were noticed in TALAPRO-2? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: No discussion is complete without talking about safety results, so I'm glad you asked me, Christian. The most common dose-affecting toxicity, if you will - so toxicities which led to dose modification and dose discontinuation of talazoparib were cytopenias, as we expect from this class of agents. So anemia, neutropenia, thrombocytopenia, these were the common toxicities. In fact, rate with anemia was 46.5%. Neutropenia and cytopenia were much less common. I would like to highlight one fact which also came up during the discussion section after our oral presentation. The qualifying criteria for entry in this trial was a hemoglobin of 9-gram percent. And 49% of patients had grade 1 to 2 anemia at baseline, that is before starting treatment with talazoparib. So, we knew that if you mandate dose reduction, a lot of patients will not get adequate dosing of talazoparib. So, we waited for grade 3 anemia and then instituted dose reduction. And that I thought personally was a good strategy because the grade 3 anemia happened after a median duration of three months, 3.3 months to be more precise. And then, these patients underwent protocol-mandated dose reduction, following which the dose discontinuations were quite low actually. Only 8.3% patients discontinued talazoparib because of anemia, and the median dose intensity or median relative dose intensity of talazoparib in the talazoparib arm remained quite high at more than 80%, which translates to a talazoparib dose of 0.4 milligram daily when the starting dose was 0.5 milligram. So those were the hallmark of toxicities. I do like to mention that those grade 3, 4 toxicities which are more known to affect the quality of life of our patients, such as grade 3, 4 anorexia, fatigue, nausea and vomiting, they were quite rare, happening in 1 to 4% patients who were on talazoparib. So overall, regarding the side effects, they were manageable, there were no new safety signals, and we could maintain adequate talazoparib dosing with dose reduction, which happened quite early during the protocol treatment. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Thank you, Neeraj. Very impressive results indeed. The patient population included in TALAPRO-2 was very similar to those included in the PROpel phase 3 trial, which tested the combination of abiraterone and olaparib in the first-line mCRPC setting. So, I'd like to just mention that we also saw LBA16 on the PROpel study, which was the final overall survival in PROpel, which was presented by Noel Clarke. So PROpel, as you know, was a randomized phase 3 trial evaluating efficacy and safety of olaparib plus abiraterone versus placebo plus abiraterone as first-line therapy for mCRPC in the first-line metastatic castration resistance setting. The enrollment in that study was independent of known defects in the homologous recombination repair gene pathway in contrast to other studies, such as MAGNITUDE, which tested the biomarker upfront. A total of 796 patients were randomly assigned to either olaparib plus abiraterone or placebo plus abiraterone. And we saw similar results, significant radiographic progression-free survival with olaparib plus abiraterone in PROpel, which was the primary endpoint similar to TALAPRO-2, and that was published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine Evidence. Now, this abstract presented here at ASCO GU reported on overall survival with an overall survival majority of 47.9% and showed that with the addition of the PARP inhibitor olaparib to abiraterone, a statistically non-significant but clinically meaningful improvement in overall survival of about seven months were achieved compared to standard of care in abiraterone alone. The numbers were 42.1 versus 34.7 months in the all-comers population of patients in the first-line mCRPC setting. Importantly, I think the median overall survival of more than 42 months really represents the longest reported median overall survival thus far in a phase III trial for first-line metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer. Although the median overall survival for the non-HRR group remains not statistically significant, with a hazard ratio of 0.89. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Such a great synopsis of the PROpel result data. Thank you, Christian, for highlighting these results. As we know, the combination is already approved by the EMA, the European Medical Agency, for patients in the first-line mCRPC setting who are not candidates for docetaxel chemotherapy. If this combination is approved by the FDA, we may have one more therapeutic option for our patients in first-line mCRPC. So, just continuing on the PARP inhibitors, there was one more oral presentation with PARP inhibitor rucaparib by Dr. Alan Bryce from the Mayo Clinic, Arizona. This was Abstract 18 on the primary result of the TRITON3 trial. So to complete our PARP inhibitor section, I would like to summarize the result of the TRITON3 trial, which was a randomized phase III trial evaluating rucaparib versus physician choice, which notably included docetaxel in addition to abiraterone or enzalutamide in patients with chemotherapy-naive mCRPC with BRCA1, BRCA2 or ATM alterations. These patients had disease progression after having one novel hormonal therapy, or we call them second-generation androgen pathway inhibitors in any setting. So these patients had to have disease progression on a novel hormonal therapy. In the BRCA subgroup and the subsequent intention to treat the population, the primary endpoint tested first was radiographic progression-free survival, and overall survival was the key secondary endpoint. The subgroup of patients with BRCA-altered disease had a median rPFS of 11.2 months with rucaparib compared to 6.4 months with physician choice of treatment - looks like almost doubling of the rPFS with the rucaparib. In the overall ITT population, median rPFS was 10.2 months with rucaparib and 6.4 months with the physician's choice of treatment. Although the overall survival data are immature, we still see a trend for improved overall survival with rucaparib. Regardless, the study clearly demonstrates the value of rucaparib for treating BRCA1 and BRCA2-altered mCRPC after disease progression on an androgen receptor pathway inhibitor. So these were the impressive results from the TRITON3 trial. But before we switch to non-prostate abstract, I would like to complete the prostate cancer discussion by talking about the Abstract 15, which was based on the results of the ARASENS trial presented by Dr. Maha Hussain. As we know, ARASENS is a randomized phase 3 trial evaluating the efficacy and safety of darolutamide plus androgen deprivation therapy plus docetaxel versus androgen deprivation therapy or ADT plus docetaxel. So the triplet of ADT plus darolutamide plus docetaxel being compared to ADT plus docetaxel chemotherapy in patients with newly diagnosed metastatic castration-sensitive prostate cancer. A total of 1,300 patients were randomly assigned to the doublet versus triplet. As presented in the last ASCO GU meeting exactly one year ago, the primary endpoint of the study was met with a significant improvement in overall survival and a 32% reduction in risk of death for patients on the triplet therapy with ADT plus docetaxel plus darolutamide versus ADT plus docetaxel chemotherapy. So triplet therapy was already approved based on these data. The abstract presented by Dr. Hussain this year is a post-talk analysis where Dr. Hussain and colleagues investigated the impact of triplet therapy across patients with high volume versus low volume per chartered criteria and higher risk versus low risk using latitude trial criteria. And investigators knew that these results would be highly attractive to practicing oncologists who are now choosing treatment based on volume of disease or risk of disease, more commonly, volume of disease. So, let's come to what was presented this ASCO GU. So, after 1,305 patients in ARASENS, the majority had high-volume disease and high-risk disease. Among patients with high-volume disease, the addition of darolutamide reduced the risk of death by 30% compared with ADT and docetaxel, with a hazard ratio of 0.69. In the risk groups, the addition of darolutamide seems to favor both high-risk and low-risk groups. Among patients with low-volume disease, there was a trend towards improvement in overall survival with the addition of darolutamide, but it did not reach statistical significance. The great news was that there was no new safety signal. So, to summarize these data, the triplet of darolutamide plus ADT plus docetaxel showed superior overall survival compared to doublet of ADT plus docetaxel, with an important caveat that triplet was not compared with any of the modern doublets of ADT plus a second generation androgen receptor pathways inhibitor such as abiraterone, apalutamide, or enzalutamide, or even darolutamide. So, I wish there was a third arm of ADT plus darolutamide. Having said that, triplet can be considered a standard of care now based on these data for patients with metastatic hormone sensory prostate cancer, where we would be using ADT plus docetaxel chemotherapy. And from this meeting data, this efficacy of triplet can be applied to high-volume disease and all risk disease. And we just need more time to see how the data pans out in low-volume patients with metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Yes, I completely agree, Neeraj. I think all the data presented in these abstracts are really impressive and will impact our daily clinical practice and our patients more or less immediately. I think the use of PARP inhibitors, whether as a monotherapy or in combination with androgen receptor pathway inhibitors, as well as now the option of triplet therapy in the metastatic castration sensitive setting really offer patients with metastatic prostate cancer new treatment strategies and most importantly, improved survival outcomes. And it is impressive to see how we have pushed the prognosis and the outcomes for our patients with prostate cancer, I would say, in the last five to ten years. And similar to last year, I think the entire Prostate Cancer Day at ASCO GU 2023 was full with impressive data and featured dynamic content throughout the day. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Indeed. So, let's move on to bladder cancer. Christian, what are your key takeaways from the bladder cancer studies presented at the meeting? Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: I think there were interesting abstracts in both the non-muscle-invasive and the muscle-invasive setting and the metastatic setting. So, for example, Abstract 442 was presented by Dr. Andrea Necchi on the cohort B of the phase 2 KEYNOTE-057 trial. As a background here, the standard treatment for high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer involves transurethral resection of the bladder tumor, a TURBT, followed by intravesical BCG therapy to eradicate any residual disease. And patients who fail to adequately respond to BCG are usually recommended to undergo radical cystectomy. So in the cohort B of the phase 2 KEYNOTE-057 trial that investigated the safety and efficacy of pembrolizumab as a single agent for patients with BCG-unresponsive, high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer who were ineligible or declined to undergo radical cystectomy, enrolled patients received standard-dose pembrolizumab of 200 milligrams every three weeks for up to 35 cycles. So very common as we do it with other disease sites. And at a median follow-up of 45.4 months, the primary endpoints of disease-free survival at twelve months was 43.5%. The median disease-free survival duration was 7.7 months. These are encouraging results, and we should keep in mind that a radical cystectomy has immense impact on our patients' quality of life. So I think it is important that we do these trials. Now in order to address potential biases in this phase II trial, such as the underlying heterogeneity of transurethral resection of bladder tumor quality, and to obtain a more comprehensive understanding of pembrolizumab's efficacy relative to a particular control group, we need further evaluation of pembrolizumab in a randomized trial before we can really go for regulatory approval. But overall, I think for the first time in a long time that we seem to be able to move the needle in non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Thank you, Christian, for this great overview. Could you please also share the findings presented by Dr. Matt Galsky on Abstract 443? Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Of course, Neeraj. Abstract 443, presented by Matt Galsky, reported the extended follow-up results from the CheckMate 274 trial, which looked at another very important field where we haven't made that much progress, which is the adjuvant setting. And CheckMate 274 examined adjuvant nivolumab compared to placebo for patients with high-risk resected muscle-invasive urothelial carcinoma. In this trial, nivolumab was given at 240 milligrams every two weeks or placebo every two weeks for up to one year of treatment. After following up with patients for a median of 36.1 months, the study found that those who received nivolumab had a median DFS of 22 months compared to only 10.9 months for those who received placebo among the ITT patients. So basically, a doubling of the DFS with the addition of adjuvant nivolumab. The results were particularly notable for patients with high PD-L1 expressions or PD-L1 expression of 1% or more, as those who are treated with nivolumab had a median DFS of 52.6 months, which was six times higher than the DFS in the control group where patients received placebo, which was only 8.4 months. And I think that is truly impressive. One year of adjuvant therapy with nivolumab continues to show a sustained disease-free survival benefit over a period of three years in both the ITT and the PD-L1-high patient population. In my view, these results reinforce the utility of nivolumab in the adjuvant urothelial carcinoma setting after surgery. And it will be interesting to see how the overall survival pans out in this study. So, Neeraj, moving on to kidney cancer, what were your key takeaways from these studies on kidney cancer presented in this meeting? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So, there were exciting results presented from multiple studies in this area as well. For example, Abstract 603 presented by Dr. Mauricio Burotto, senior author was, Dr. Toni Choueiri on the three-year follow-up from the phase 2 CheckMate-9ER trial. So, in this trial, patients were randomized one-to-one to nivolumab 240 milligrams every two weeks, plus cabozantinib 40 milligrams daily versus sunitinib 50 milligrams daily for four weeks, and it was a six-week cycle for sunitinib until disease progression or unacceptable toxicity. So this was the design of the phase 3 CheckMate-9ER trial. And after a median follow-up of three years, the benefit of nivolumab plus cabozantinib remained consistent with previous follow-ups. So, as we know, these data have been presented in the past, also published in the New England Journal of Medicine. But this meeting was a clear follow-up of these data. Notably, the median overall survival of patients treated with cabozantinib plus nivolumab in the ITT population, which included all favorable intermediate and poor IMDC score patients, was significantly improved at 49.5 months compared to 35.5 months in the sunitinib arm. It is so heartening to see that median overall survival breaching the four-year mark in our patients with metastatic RCC in a consistent fashion. We saw similar data with the combination of ipilimumab plus nivolumab recently. And as these trials are maturing, we are probably going to see more combinations breaching this four-year mark. So importantly, no new safety signals emerged with the additional follow-up in either arm. And I think these results provide further support for the use of cabozantinib plus nivolumab as a first-line treatment option for patients with metastatic or advanced renal cell carcinoma. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Indeed, I think it is extremely impressive what we've seen over the last 15 years in metastatic kidney cancer, going from a median overall survival of about a year to now more than four years. I think that is a great achievement, and we can see it on a daily basis in our clinical practice. Now, before we wrap up, I would like to highlight another potentially practice-changing trial, LBA602, which titled, "Results from Phase 3 Study of 89Zr-DFO-Girentuximab for PET/CT Imaging of Clear Cell Renal Cell Carcinoma: The ZIRCON Trial" presented by Dr. Brian Shuch. The background of this is that the detection of renal masses poses a challenge due to the limitations of diagnostic options such as imaging and biopsy. And we often, in clinical practice, are confronted with "What exactly is this?" And what's even more importantly, "What's the histology of this?" And a non-invasive, accurate method is needed for pre-treatment risk stratification. Girentuximab, a monoclonal antibody that targets carbonic anhydrase IX expressed on clear cell renal cell carcinoma, can obviously now aid in the differentiation between clear cell renal cell carcinomas and other renal lesions when radiolabeled with this new agent. The ZIRCON trial was open-label and designed to include patients with renal masses up to 7 cm in size or clear tumor stage cT1 who were scheduled for partial nephrectomy within 90 days of planned TLX250-CDx administration. The enrolled patients received a single intravenous dose of girentuximab on day 0 and underwent FDG PET/CT imaging on day 5 before their scheduled surgery. And the co-primary endpoints were to assess the sensitivity and specificity of girentuximab PET/CT imaging for detecting clear cell renal cell carcinoma in patients with indeterminate renal masses, with histology as the reference standard, which I think is a great way to test these agents because you get 100% validation. In the primary analysis of 284 patients, the average sensitivity and specificity across all three central readers were 86% and 87%, respectively, exceeding the prespecified thresholds. The positive and negative predictive values were 93.4% and 78%, respectively. And with very few related adverse events reported, the study affirms that girentuximab PET/CT is safe and effective in identifying clear cell renal cell carcinoma in patients with indeterminate renal masses. And the findings hold potential for developing optimal management strategies for patients with indeterminate renal masses. I think this is important that we add a non-invasive method to this because we are confronted on a regular basis with patients who either cannot tolerate a biopsy or where the biopsy is indeterminate. And this could potentially be a great tool to help us with our pre-treatment planning of our treatment strategy. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Wow. So, it looks like a new PET scan using a unique tracer and antibody to detect the clear cell renal cell carcinoma with high specificity and sensitivity. It reminds me of drawing a crude analogy from the PSMA PET scan in prostate cancer. And hopefully, we will be able to use these newer scans that we call TLX250-CDx PET/CT scan. I hope they have a simpler name for this very soon. Or maybe follow up for patients who had kidney cancer, localized kidney cancer taken out by radical surgery, and then we are following them. And sometimes, we don't know if a small lung nodule is metastatic or not. And these kinds of imaging studies may help us down the line in monitoring those patients as well. So indeed, very exciting progress not only in the therapeutic area now but also in diagnostic fields at this GU ASCO. So with that, we have seen multiple abstracts on prostate, bladder, and kidney cancer with real impact on how we practice medicine. Thank you, Christian, for sharing your insight with us today. It is an exciting time in GU Oncology, and we appreciate you taking the time to contribute to the discussion. Thank you so much. Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: Thank you, Neeraj, thank you for having me. And I completely agree it remains an exciting time in GU oncology. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: And thank you to our listeners for joining us today. You will find links to the abstracts discussed today on the transcripts of this episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal @neerajaiims Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Lilly, Exelixis, AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Merck, Novartis, Eisai, Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences Research Funding (Institution): Bayer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen, AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, crispr therapeutics, Arvinas Dr. Christian Kollmannsberger: None disclosed

Guest host Dr. Neeraj Agarwal and Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching discuss several crucial studies that will be presented at the 2023 ASCO Genitourinary Cancers Symposium, including ARASENS, TRITON3, and others in prostate cancer, as well as novel therapies in mRCC and urothelial carcinoma. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm Dr. Neeraj Agarwal, your guest host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast today. I'm the director of the Genitourinary Oncology Program, a professor of medicine at the University of Utah Huntsman Cancer Institute, and editor-in-chief of the ASCO Daily News. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching, a medical oncologist and the clinical program director of the Genitourinary Cancers Program at the Inova Schar Cancer Institute in Virginia. Today we will be discussing key abstracts in genitourinary oncology that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Genitourinary Cancers Symposium. Our full disclosures are available in the show notes, and disclosures for all guests on the podcast can be found on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts. Jeanny, it is great to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Thank you so much, Dr. Agarwal, for having me. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So Jeanny, let's begin with Abstract 15 on the update on the ARASENS trial, which Dr. Maha Hussain will present [at the meeting]. In March '22, as we know, almost a year ago, the results of the ARASENS trials were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Darolutamide, which is an AR signaling inhibitor plus androgen deprivation therapy plus docetaxel chemotherapy, significantly reduced the risk of death by 32.5% versus placebo plus ADT plus docetaxel. The effect of triplet therapy, including darolutamide on overall survival, was consistent across prespecified subgroups. However, survival outcomes by disease volume were not reported at the time. Can you please tell us about Abstract 15? Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Yeah, thank you so much, Neeraj, I would be happy to. So, this new data is actually very crucial for all clinicians. The title of this abstract is "Efficacy and Safety of Darolutamide in Combination with ADT and Docetaxel by Disease Volume and Disease Risk in the Phase 3 ARASENS Study." So, as a quick reminder, in this trial, patients were randomized 1:1 to the standard dose of darolutamide 600 milligrams twice daily or placebo with ADT and docetaxel in the metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer setting. Now remember, too, high volume disease was defined per the charted criteria, which is visceral metastases and/or four or more bone lesions, of which at least one or more has to be beyond the vertebral column or pelvis. 8And high-risk disease was actually defined per the LATITUDE criteria, which is any two or more of the following three factors: Gleason scores eight or more, bone lesions that are three or more, and the presence of measurable visceral metastases. Of all the 1,305 patients, 77% of them were actually classified as having high-volume disease, and 70% of them had high-risk disease. So, in both of these high-volume and low-volume disease patients, the triplet therapy darolutamide, ADT, and docetaxel actually improved overall survival and hazard ratio was 0.69 and 0.68, respectively. Compared to the placebo and ADT, and docetaxel arm. So overall survival improvement was also significant in patients across all risk, high-risk, or low-risk disease. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: So, Jeanny, this is great news. So, the main message from this abstract for our audience is that triplet therapy of darolutamide plus docetaxel plus ADT is more efficacious than the doublet of ADT plus docetaxel chemotherapy, regardless of disease volume or risk status. One important caveat I would like to note is that triplet therapy with the darolutamide was not compared with the doublet therapy of ADT plus darolutamide or any androgen receptor signaling inhibitor such as abiraterone or apalutamide or enzalutamide, all of which have shown benefit consistently, regardless of volume status, and in the case of abiraterone, also in the context of high-risk disease setting, as we saw in the LATITUDE trial. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Absolutely. I agree with that, Neeraj. Those are important points to consider. Now, moving on to a different setting in prostate cancer across the disease continuum, let's discuss Abstract 18, titled "Rucaparib for Metastatic Castrate-Resistant Prostate Cancer." This is TRITON3 entering overall survival and efficacy of rucaparib versus docetaxel or second-generation engine pathway inhibitor therapy, which will provide us with some additional data regarding overall survival. Neeraj, based on this new abstract, can you tell us more about TRITON3, which will be presented by Dr. Alan Bryce and colleagues from the Mayo Clinic Arizona? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Of course. So TRITON3 is a randomized multicenter open-label phase 3 trial where rucaparib was compared with the physician choice of docetaxel chemotherapy or abiraterone or enzalutamide in those patients who had not received chemotherapy in the metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer setting, and they had to be progressing on a prior androgen receptor signaling inhibitor in any setting prior. So, they just had to have disease progression either in the hormone-sensitive setting or CRPC setting on one of the AR inhibitors, and they had to have a BRCA1, BRCA2, or ATM alteration. So, in this context, these patients were randomized to rucaparib versus physician's choice of agent, which could again be docetaxel chemotherapy, abiraterone, or enzalutamide. So, OS maturity is 54% in BRCA group and 59% in the intention to treat population. In BRCA1 and BRCA2 populations, radiographic PFS, which was the primary endpoint, was 11.2 months in rucaparib group and 6.4 months in the physician choice arm. In the intention to treat population where you include all patients BRCA plus ATM patients, ATM positive patients. Radiographic PFS was 10 months almost versus 6.4 months with standard of care. And both were statistically significant as well as clinically meaningful improvement in the radiographic progression-free survival with rucaparib over physician's choice of either docetaxel or enzalutamide, or abiraterone. I would like to note that most frequent toxicity which we see with this group of agents is most frequent grade III or more toxicity was anemia, which was present in approximately 24% patients treated with rucaparib. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Yeah. This is a really exciting update, Neeraj. What do you think is the key takeaway from this abstract? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: The key takeaway is that TRITON3 trial met its primary endpoint, and rucaparib significantly improves radiographic progression-free survival in BRCA mutation-positive patients or BRCA ATM-positive patients. Overall survival is still immature, and these results further establish rucaparib as one of the standard of care options in those patients who have metastatic CRPC with prior treatment with the AR signaling inhibitor and who harbor one of the BRCA mutations or BRCA NAT mutations. So, Jeanny, before moving on to the renal cell carcinoma section in this podcast, there is an Abstract in prostate cancer talking about correlation between the source of funding and disparities among patients with advanced prostate cancer. So, I'm referring to that Abstract 40, titled "Source of Funding and Enrollment Disparity in Prostate Cancer Clinical Trials." I thought this was an interesting abstract. Could you please tell us more about this abstract? Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Absolutely, Neeraj. So, in Abstract 40, Dr. Riaz and Dr. Bryce, and colleagues actually looked at phase II and III clinical trials that involved prostate cancer patients that reported on patients with age by 65 years, and they got the data from the MEDLINE and Embase databases. Trials recruiting from the United States were considered eligible for analysis by race and ethnicity. So, in terms of race and ethnic enrollment, they found that black patients were significantly underrepresented in the industry's funded trials. Notably, no significant disparity was observed in the US government-funded trials, but Hispanics were also significantly underrepresented in industry-funded clinical trials. However, no significant disparity was seen in terms of older adults overall and by funding sources. Remarkably, Black patients' representation in industry-funded prostate cancer trials has actually decreased over the last three decades. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: That's concerning. So, what is your key takeaway from this trial, Jeanny? Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: The key message here is that Black and Hispanic men with prostate cancer are significantly less likely to be included in industry-sponsored clinical trials. A bigger concern is that black patients' representation actually continues to decline over time. So these results warrant a really more proactive role by regulatory bodies to ensure that a proportional representation of minorities in the industry trials, which in turn will make these results more applicable to a wider entire population of men with prostate cancer. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Thanks, Jeanny. Let's move on to renal cell carcinoma. I saw some innovative research correlating the efficacy of immune checkpoint inhibitors with the time of the day these checkpoint inhibitors were administered. So, interestingly, there were two studies from two different groups of investigators showing very similar results. Please tell us about this innovative research correlating outcomes with immune checkpoint inhibitors with the time of the day these medicines or these drugs were infused into the patients. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Absolutely, Neeraj. I think they're very exciting and interesting. So there's actually two abstracts, so Abstract 681 and 678, which we, of course, can discuss separately. So, let's probably start first with Abstract 678. Neeraj, do you want to explain to us further about this abstract? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Yes. When our center participated in that abstract, which was led by Dr. Nazli Dizman from Yale University, Dr. Dizman and colleagues examined the relationship between the time of the administration of immune checkpoint inhibitors, or ICIs, as we call them, during the time of the day, and outcomes in patients with metastatic renal cell carcinoma. So, I'd like to point out that previously Dr. Qian and colleagues reported an association between the time of day of immunotherapy infusion and survival outcomes in patients with metastatic melanoma. In this study, Dr. Dizman and colleagues, which included our center also, patients with metastatic RCC who received nivolumab with or without ipilimumab– so these patients all received either nivolumab alone or without ipilimumab. And patients who received less than 25% of infusion after 4:30 pm. were assigned to the early-time of infusion group. So, if they have received less than 25% infusion of these immunotherapies after 04:30 pm in the evening, they belong to the early infusion group, and the rest were assigned to the late infusion group. In the univariate analysis, numerically higher objective responses and time to treatment failure were observed in the early infusion group compared to the late infusion group. So, differences were 33% versus 25% in objective responses in early versus late infusion group. If you look at time to treatment failure, 8.3 months versus 4.4 months in early versus late infusion group. In the multivariate models, which took into account the clinical characteristics such as age, gender, line of treatment, IMDC risk category, histological subtypes, there was a trend towards improved outcomes in those who received these infusions with ICIs early in the day. So, Dr. Dizman concluded that larger randomized and controlled investigations are warranted to examine the impact of this chronal modulation, if you will, on the efficacy of immune checkpoint inhibitors in metastatic RCC sets. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Yeah, this is very interesting data, Neeraj. And that actually resonates closely with this other abstract by Fernandez Manias and colleagues in Abstract 681. So, in this abstract, the primary outcome was overall survival, but they did look at other secondary endpoints like time on treatment, time to the next treatment, and overall response rates. Now, because of the small number of events, the authors actually focused on just patients who received second-line immune checkpoint inhibitors. And what they did was they looked at patients who received overall more than 20% of their infusions after 04:30 pm, and they found that those who did receive actually fewer infusions had a significantly shorter time on treatment and had a worse overall survival. And similar results were seen when they looked at those who got more than 50% of their dose of checkpoint inhibitors that were administered after 04:30 pm, so interestingly enough, there was a 16% increase in the risk of death for each 10% increment of checkpoint infusion after 04:30 pm. So the key message here is that administration of checkpoint inhibitors after 04:30 pm is associated, unfortunately, with inferior outcomes. Now, these results should, of course, be further considered in the organization overall of the outpatient clinic as it can impact patient survival and outcomes. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Very interesting. So similar results from two independent groups of investigators from two different continents obviously made this research area very appealing and pertinent. Ideally, I think these results should be validated prospectively, but that will take time. But investigators who have already lagged multiple phase III trials should explore validating these results in the last phase 3 trials which have already been reported and where the data on the timing of infusion is available. Once validated, I think these results may profoundly influence how we organize, as you said, Jeanny, the outpatient scheduling of these checkpoint therapy infusions compared to those who are not checkpoint inhibitors. I think this is going to have very interesting data overall, no doubt. Before moving onto bladder cancer, I would like to discuss an important abstract related to testicular cancer patients titled "Longitudinal Evaluation of Plasma MicroRNA-371 to Detect Minimal Residual Disease and Early Relapse of Germ Cell Tumors." Could you please tell us more about this abstract? Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Yeah, absolutely, Neeraj. So this is a very interesting up-and-coming Abstract, it's number 407, which will be presented by Dr. Lucia Nappi and colleagues. In this study, clinical patients with stage I germ cell tumor with available plasma samples after they underwent radical orchiectomy were all included. So, they looked at sensitivity, specificity, negative, positive predictive values, an area under the curve in predicting tumor recurrence, and they evaluated the microRNA-371, I'll just call it and truncate it as miR-371, and compared the same operating characteristics of current gold standard diagnostic tests. Relapse-free survival was correlated to post-orchiectomy miR-371 status, which could be either positive or negative. So, at a median follow-up of 41 months, 101 patients with clinical stage one germ cell tumor were included. About 35% of them experienced a disease relapse during that time of follow-up. Now, what they found was miR-371 was positive in about 63% of the relapsed patients, and the miR-371 positivity preceded clinically evident disease by a median of about three months. The specificity and positive predictive values were 100%, sensitivity was like 63%, and negative predictive value was 83.5%, so very high. No false positive results were seen. And, the authors reported that the recurrence-free survival of the patients who had positive post-orchiectomy miR-371 was significantly shorter compared to those patients who had a negative biomarker for the miR-371. So, they concluded that the miR-371 sensitivity correlated with the tumor burden, time between tumor relapse, the microRNA testing, and histology. It was notably a little bit more sensitive in non-seminomas compared to those who had seminoma. Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Interesting findings, indeed. So, Jeanny, what is the take-home message from this abstract? Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Yeah, so I think the key takeaway is that microRNA-371 seems to be a good test, like a biomarker for predicting disease relapse in patients with early-stage germ cell tumor. So, additionally, its high specificity and positive predictive value in predicting relapse could really be used and utilized to guide adjuvant therapy, selections, and decisions after orchiectomy. Further validation in other studies, such as swab 1823, are currently ongoing or planned to validate its clinical utility. So Neeraj, moving on to bladder cancer, the last abstract I'd like to mention before we wrap up the podcast is Abstract 563, titled "Utility of ctDNA in Predicting Outcome and Pathological Complete Response in Patients with Bladder Cancer as a Guide for Selective Bladder Preservation Strategies." Neeraj, can you tell us more about this abstract? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Sure. So, this study was led by Dr. Lars Dyrskjøt. He and colleagues evaluated the prognostic value of circulating tumor DNA, or ctDNA, in predicting recurrence in a cohort of 68 patients with muscle-invasive bladder cancer who received new adjuvant chemotherapy prior to cystectomy. So ctDNA was analyzed two times at baseline before new adjuvant chemotherapy and then before surgery or before cystectomy. So, patients had ctDNA assessed before neoadjuvant chemotherapy and then before cystectomy after completion of new adjuvant chemotherapy. At baseline, of the 64 patients, around 60% were ctDNA negative, and 40% were positive for ctDNA. So of those patients who were ctDNA negative, 84% achieved pathologic complete response, while in those who tested ctDNA positive, only 35% achieved their pathologic complete response after surgery. Prior to surgery, 84% of patients were ctDNA negative, and 81% achieved pathologic complete response. While none of the ctDNA-positive patients who were positive before surgery and after neoadjuvant chemotherapy, none of them achieved pathologic complete response, which translates into a positive predictive value of 100% and a negative predictive value of 81% for this test. So based on both ctDNA time points, the probability of ctDNA negative patients to achieve a pathologic complete response was significantly higher than ctDNA positive patients. At a median follow-up of 59 months, ctDNA-positive patients without pathologic complete response demonstrated significantly lower recurrence-free survival and overall survival compared to those who were ctDNA negative. So, I want to repeat that, at a longer follow-up, which Dr. Dyrskjøt will be presenting, ctDNA positive patients without pathologic complete response had significantly lower recurrence-free survival and overall survival compared to ctDNA negative patients. Furthermore, ctDNA status at baseline, which is before neoadjuvant chemotherapy and before cystectomy, was a better predictor of recurrence-free survival compared to pathologic complete response, which is a remarkable finding here, although it's a smaller data set. Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Agree completely, Neeraj. So, I think the importance here, too, is upon prospective validation in larger data sets, we will find that a negative ctDNA test would help in identifying patients who can benefit more from bladder-sparing strategies. Neeraj, any final thoughts before we wrap up the podcast today? Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Before I share my final thoughts, Jeanny, I would like to thank you for joining us and sharing your insights. I always find them very valuable. So, thank you so much for taking the time. I would like to wrap up the podcast by saying we are seeing an explosion in the development of novel therapeutic approaches for our patients with genitourinary cancers. At the 2023 ASCO GU meeting, we will have multiple studies with practice-impacting data presented by investigators from around the world. I urge our listeners to come and join us in the meeting not only to celebrate these successes but also to help disseminate these cutting-edge data to practitioners and maximize the benefit for our patients across the globe. I would like to thank our listeners for joining us today. You will find links to the abstracts which we discussed today on the transcript of this episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you so much. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal @neerajaimms Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Neeraj Agarwal: Consulting or Advisory Role: Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca, Nektar, Lilly, Bayer, Pharmacyclics, Foundation Medicine, Astellas Pharma, Lilly, Exelixis, AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Merck, Novartis, Eisai, Seattle Genetics, EMD Serono, Janssen Oncology, AVEO, Calithera Biosciences, MEI Pharma, Genentech, Astellas Pharma, Foundation Medicine, and Gilead Sciences Research Funding (Institution): Bayer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Takeda, Pfizer, Exelixis, Amgen, AstraZeneca, Calithera Biosciences, Celldex, Eisai, Genentech, Immunomedics, Janssen, Merck, Lilly, Nektar, ORIC Pharmaceuticals, crispr therapeutics, Arvinas Dr. Jeanny Aragon-Ching: Honoraria: Bristol-Myers Squibb, EMD Serono, Astellas Scientific and Medical Affairs Inc Consulting or Advisory Role: Algeta/Bayer, Dendreon, AstraZeneca, Janssen Biotech, Sanofi, EMD Serono, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Bayer, Merck, Seattle Genetics, Pfizer, Immunomedics, Amgen, AVEO, Pfizer/Myovant, Exelixis Speakers' Bureau: Astellas Pharma, Janssen-Ortho, Bristol-Myers Squibb , Astellas/Seattle Genetics Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Dendreon, Algeta/Bayer, Bristol Myers Squibb, EMD Serono, Astellas Pharma

Dr. Rachna Shroff, chair-elect of the 2023 ASCO GI Cancers Symposium, and guest host Dr. Shaalan Beg discuss new research presented at GI23, including new data from SWOG 1815 in biliary tract cancers, advances in biomarker studies in mCRC such as the PARADIGM trial, and promising updates in ctDNA technology. She also highlights the exciting potential of AI in oncology. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Shaalan Beg: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm Dr. Shaalan Beg, your guest host of the podcast today. I'm an adjunct associate professor at UT Southwestern's Simmons Comprehensive Cancer Center and vice president of Oncology at Science 37. Today we'll be discussing key abstracts and other highlights from the 2023 ASCO Gastrointestinal Cancer Symposium, which celebrated 20 years of transformative care in GI cancers. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Rachna Shroff, the chair-elect of this milestone meeting. Dr. Shroff is the interim division chief of Hematology Oncology at the University of Arizona Cancer Center. She also serves as the associate dean for Clinical and Translational Research and is the chief of GI Medical Oncology. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures related to all episodes of the podcast are available on our transcripts at ASCO.org/podcasts. Dr. Shroff, it's great to have you back on the ASCO Daily News podcast. Dr. Rachna Shroff: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Dr. Shaalan Beg: The ASCO GI Cancers Symposium has been heralded as one of the biggest conferences in the GI cancer space and has occupied this space for the past two decades. Some would say that this year's conference was probably the best GI Cancers Symposium to date. Can you comment on the 20th anniversary milestone and the impact of the symposium on GI cancers? Dr. Rachna Shroff: Absolutely, and that's so great to hear that that's the feedback that you've heard. I have to say GI ASCO is absolutely my favorite meeting of the year, so that is my full disclosure. But I think that this was a tremendous meeting, and I think it was so beautiful that it was also coinciding with the 20th anniversary. It meant so much to us to have Dr. Margaret Tempero open the meeting because she really was the impetus for creating a GI cancer-focused meeting that really brought together multidisciplinary expertise. And so to us, that is what this 20th anniversary represented—20 years of multiple different specialties coming together to discuss how to improve cancer care for patients with gastrointestinal malignancies. And it has been a transformative meeting to see the impact of research presented at this meeting and how it has been implemented over the course of 20 years. And I completely agree that this year in and of itself had some incredible pivotal data that there is no doubt will be practice-changing, and that is absolutely the purpose. I also think that the beauty of this meeting is the networking opportunities for all of us to come out of our individual silos, come together, and discuss cross-cutting care across the spectrum of GI malignancies. And I think that this meeting really did that quite well. Dr. Shaalan Beg: There were many practice-changing studies that made headlines this year, and for me, one of the most anticipated studies was a trial that you led for cholangiocarcinoma and much-anticipated results. The study finished enrollment at a record pace. Can you share your key findings of cholangiocarcinoma? And I'd really like to hear your perspective on cholangiocarcinoma studies. Dr. Rachna Shroff: Yes, it was actually a really big year in the hepatobiliary space, and I was proud to present SWOG 1815, LBA 490, which was the pivotal randomized phase 3 trial looking at gemcitabine, cisplatin, and nab-paclitaxel versus gemcitabine and cisplatin. This was a study that was opened across the entire NCTN and based on a single-arm phase 2 trial that had shown some promising early efficacy of the triplet chemotherapy regimen. As you mentioned, this study accrued 441 patients in two years. And it's really a testament to the fact that the cooperative group mechanism can and should be asking important questions in large, randomized studies and that it is even possible to do in what are historically thought of as, quote-unquote, "rare tumors." The study was a randomization of two to one to the triplet chemotherapy versus the standard of care for newly diagnosed biliary tract cancer patients. And the primary endpoint was median overall survival. And while the median OS of the triplet regimen was numerically improved at 14 months compared to 12.7 months, this did not meet statistical significance. Other efficacy endpoints, including median progression-free survival and overall response rate, were also numerically improved but not statistically significant, with an overall response rate of 31% with the triplet regimen versus 22%. There were some prespecified stratification factors, including disease site and disease stage, and there may be some interesting signals that bear out of that in terms of perhaps gallbladder cancer and locally advanced patients may be benefiting from the triplet regimen a little bit more, but these are small numbers, and we would really need to explore that in a more rigorous prospective manner. The toxicities were, not surprisingly, there, especially hematologic toxicities. I will say for those of us that use this regimen in practice, we use it a little bit differently than what was done in SWOG 1815, but you can't deny that there were significantly higher grade 3-5 toxicities with anemia neutropenia and thrombocytopenia, though the treatment discontinuation rate did not differ. I think the next steps are really going to be the ongoing biomarker analyses. The study had archival tissue and prospective blood collection and we know that in the space of cholangiocarcinomas and biliary cancers, molecular complexities absolutely play a role in how patients do and how they respond to therapies. So that's going to be an important next step, I think, for this study. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Speaking of biomarkers and an impact on GI cancers, the other malignancy where biomarkers are having a much greater impact than other GI cancers is colon cancer. Another year where we continue to see advances in our understanding of molecularly targeted treatments for colon cancer. What caught your eye? Dr. Rachna Shroff: Well, there were a lot of really interesting studies happening in this space and as a biliary person, one of the first things I got excited about was seeing Abstract 139 that looked at pemigatinib, which is the drug we are very familiar with in cholangiocarcinoma. This was a single-arm phase two study looking at the use of the FGFR inhibitor pemigatinib in metastatic colorectal cancer patients who had FGFR alterations. And so this was a study that was opened through the ACCRU mechanism. It was multicenter with assignment two-stage design and it was specifically for patients with FGF and FGFR-altered metastatic colorectal cancer who had progressed on standard therapies. There was a prespecified interim analysis for futility after 12 evaluable patients and so 14 patients were enrolled in the first stage of the study and evaluated for the primary endpoint of objective response. What was seen and the study was subsequently stopped is that there was really not much efficacy, there was no evidence of safety signals, but this did not seem to be a very active drug in patients with FGFR alterations with no objective response noted. So, the study was stopped with the recognition that perhaps the FGFR translocation or fusion patient population may be something to explore since they did not look at that in this study. The other kind of study that I think is really important was important work of Dr. Raghav and colleagues through SWOG. This was SWOG 1613 Abstract 140. This was the first real study that was investigating targeting HER-2 overexpressed and amplified metastatic colorectal cancer who had RAS wild-type tumors. And it was based on, obviously, some early signals of the effectiveness of HER-2 targeting in metastatic colorectal cancer. And this was a large study looking at pertuzumab and trastuzumab in these patients. They were compared to cetuximab and irinotecan, and the initial plan was for a much larger study. Unfortunately, accrual was really slow so the study was really kind of reformatted and a total of 54 patients were randomized, 26 to the trastuzumab arm and 28 to the CetIri or cetuximab and irinotecan arm. What was seen was that you can absolutely use HER-2 targeting therapies with trastuzumab and pertuzumab in these patients. It was safe and there were some obvious signs of efficacy in terms of overall response rate with an overall response rate of 31% compared to the CetIri arm. Crossover was allowed from the CetIri arm to trastuzumab and pertuzumab. So just that's important to keep in mind when they start to follow out the survival data. But unfortunately, because this study did not accrue, it was stopped early and it's really hard to understand in terms of power calculations the impact of trastuzumab pertuzumab. Of course, we can't talk about this without recognizing that the FDA approval based on the MOUNTAINEER study for tucatinib and trastuzumab came through during GI ASCO. So clearly HER-2 targeting is here to stay in colorectal cancer. Dr. Shaalan Beg: So technology is advancing every year and it's important that we are aware of these advances and how they impact our patients. Probably one of the most exciting technologies in oncology in general is the evolution of ctDNA. And it's been amazing to watch that field unfold as we understand how to use circulating biomarkers for early detection of cancer, for minimal residual disease detection, even as a biomarker of response. What caught your eye when it comes to the use of ctDNA in GI cancers, and how do you see this space develop in the next couple of years? Dr. Rachna Shroff: I completely agree. I think the technology of ctDNA is so incredibly exciting and as somebody who does not actively see and treat colorectal cancer, I'm a little bit envious of my colleagues in that space because the strides that have been made in terms of understanding the utility of ctDNA, especially in colorectal cancer, has just been tremendous and even for the last two to three years. One perfect example of integrating that sort of technology into treatment paradigms is the PARADIGM trial, Abstract 11, which was looking at the concept of hyperselection of patients with RAS wild-type metastatic colorectal cancer who were on the PARADIGM trial which basically looked at frontline FOLFOX with panitumumab versus bevacizumab in patients with RAS wild type left-sided metastatic colorectal cancer. So, you know, the initial data from PARADIGM had demonstrated a longer median overall survival 37.9 months versus 34.3 months, but very smartly, the investigators had also collected baseline plasma ctDNA in the biomarker component of this study and used a custom panel that looked at gene alterations for hyperselection and that included KRAS, NRAS, PTEN, and extracellular domain EGFR mutations HER-2 and MET amplifications, as well as some fusions like ALK, RET, and NTRK. And so out of the 802 patients in the full set, 91% - 733 patients - actually had pretreatment samples for ctDNA, which is really in and of itself, I think, tremendous. And when you break it down, about 28% had at least one gene alteration, and that was across each of those different genes that they were looking at. In the 72% of patients who were defined as hyperselected without any gene alterations, the OS was actually longer with panitumumab versus bev, and that actually was independent of sidedness with hazard ratios that kind of ranged from 0.76 to 0.82. And OS was similar or inferior with panitumumab versus bevacizumab again, regardless of sidedness in patients with any of these gene alterations. And so I think it's a really interesting concept that you can use ctDNA to define negative hyperselection rather than looking at left sided and right sided to really help select patients with frontline therapy in terms of using panitumumab versus bevacizumab. And with the speed with which ctDNA can be obtained, this actually seems like something that could be implemented into clinical practice, which is, I think, really the important component of that. There were a number of other really interesting abstracts. Abstract 5, presented by Dr. Cohen and colleagues, really looked at the kinetics of circulating cell-free DNA and how that kind of relates to minimal residual disease detection rates. And this was in patients with resected stages one through three colorectal cancer. And so, this was a retrospective study, so we have to keep that in mind. And it was multi-institutional in really over 16,000 patients with stages 1 through 3 colorectal cancer. But the complete dataset had about 417 patients and basically the patients' circulating cell-free DNA levels, the total cfDNA, were compared to the ctDNA MRD positivity rates and they looked at very specific time points after surgery. What the authors generally found was that the postoperative cfDNA correlated well with ctDNA positivity and that there was really the ability to see plasma cfDNA levels kind of track and follow with the very specific MRD windows that were being looked at, which really, again, just kind of talks about leveraging this technology in terms of real-world and real-time application and better understanding and informing us of minimal residual disease post what is thought to be curative resection. The last one that I thought was really interesting in relation to ctDNA was actually looking at anal cancer and following ctDNA in patients who were treated with definitive chemoradiation. This was a study that was looking at 31 patients with anal squamous cell carcinoma who were treated with definitive chemo radiation and underwent ctDNA response. The majority of these patients had stage 3 disease and the majority of them received the standard 5-FU Mitomycin with radiation. The patients had ctDNA testing performed in 25 of these patients at baseline and then a smaller number over the course of time, some during chemoradiation. And then they looked again at 30 days post chemoradiation. And at baseline, 88% of patients had detectable ctDNA with those with stage three disease having numerically higher baseline ctDNA levels. And basically what they found was that over the course of treatment, ctDNA levels decreased among the patients with detectable ctDNA. And then ctDNA that tested during chemo radiation showed a drop in decline and were going into molecular remission at a time point in which it was subsequently confirmed that they had a clinical complete response. So, the suggestion here is that the time to molecular ctDNA remission was significantly shorter than being able to see that clinical complete response, which suggests that using surveillance ctDNA monitoring could be an earlier response assessment for patients with anal squamous cell carcinoma who are undergoing definitive therapy. Now, obviously this needs to be confirmed in a larger manner, but again, really suggests that we could be understanding how we're doing with treatment in more of a real-time fashion, which I just think is incredible for those of us who are making sure that we are doing and taking the right approaches for these patients. Dr. Shaalan Beg: One of the major transformative announcements that took place only a couple of months before the GI Cancer Symposium was the announcement of ChatGPT. And we heard a lot of discussion on how it can be used for improving cancer care, improving drug development, and in general, artificial intelligence and machine learning. We've been hearing these buzzwords for such a long time, to the point that a lot of people are probably just filtering it out and then this tool comes up and it makes it real. And we're seeing different people apply these technologies in different ways. But there is tremendous potential in how this technology can improve clinical trials, drug development, and early diagnosis. And luckily, we had already secured a keynote speaker, Dr. Matthew Lundgren from Nuance Communications, and he was invited to talk about artificial intelligence, machine learning, and how it applies to cancer care. I'm really curious to hear what your highlights were from his address and how you see this impacting your day-to-day, or just the ecosystem of which we're all part of. Dr. Rachna Shroff: Yeah, I will say that his keynote was really one of the highlights of the entire meeting for me. And that is coming from somebody who doesn't really know– I know who I'm speaking to, but somebody who does not truly understand the way AI is moving. And so, I was joking with him that it was like AI 101. And I really, really appreciated the way he was able to kind of speak to a crowd that he doesn't normally speak to and help us really understand the way in which artificial intelligence can be integrated into healthcare, and specifically oncology. To me, I think what were the most salient takeaways from his address was really about how this is just a rapidly evolving field and we need to be a little bit ahead of the eight ball when it comes to thinking how we can smartly leverage artificial intelligence like you mentioned, to improve our clinical research efforts, to improve access, and to improve fully integrating AI into our EMR, so that we can really leverage that technology and ensure that we are capturing every potential patient for a clinical trial and be smarter about how we're even approaching things. I mean, I loved him talking about the prior authorizations and that sort of thing, and the ways in which we can decrease the burden on health care providers and really let us focus on the areas that we need to focus on. The one thing that I thought was a really important point, though, and I think a number of people asked him, was about how using this technology has the potential to create more gaps and disparities and how can we be smart to ensure that we don't broaden those gaps. And I think that is a really important point that we all need to think about because we know that especially when we think through clinical trials, there's already underrepresentation of certain populations and certain geographic regions. And so, I think that was a really important takeaway for me is how can we make sure that we work and partner with those who are creating these technologies to ensure that we aren't taking two steps forward and four steps back. Dr. Shaalan Beg: It really calls into question how we define productivity and what our value in the entire delivery system really is. And I think from people who are in middle school or high school to people who are in college and even folks who are in the field as you and I are, it's forcing us to rethink what we bring to the table in a way that we've never been challenged to ask that question ever before. Dr. Rachna Shroff: Absolutely. Dr. Shaalan Beg: So, thank you very much, Dr. Shroff. This was wonderful. Thank you for sharing your insights with us today. And we thank you and Dr. George Chang, the chair of the ASCO GI Cancers Symposium, and everyone who worked so hard to develop a robust program this year. Dr. Rachna Shroff: Thank you. It was so wonderful to be able to speak about it. And thank you to all of the attendees for making it such a memorable meeting. Dr. Shaalan Beg: And thank you to all our listeners for your time today. You'll find links to the abstracts discussed today on the transcript of this episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Shaalan Beg @ShaalanBeg Dr. Rachna Shroff @rachnatshroff Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Shaalan Beg: Employment: Science 37 Consulting or Advisory Role: Ipsen, Array BioPharma, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Cancer Commons, Legend Biotech, Foundation Medicine Research Funding (Inst.): Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Merck Serono, Five Prime Therapeutics, MedImmune, Genentech, Immunesensor, Tolero Pharmaceuticals Dr. Rachna Shroff: Consulting or Advisory Role: Exelixis, Merck, QED Therapeutics, Incyte, Astra Zeneca, Taiho Pharmaceutical, Boehringer Ingelheim, SERVIER, Genentech, Basilea Research Funding: Pieris Pharmaceuticals, Taiho Pharmaceutical, Merck, Exelixis, QED Therapeutics, Rafael Pharmaceuticals, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Bayer, Immunovaccine, Seagen, Novocure, Nucana, Loxo/Lilly, Faeth Therapeutics

A national survey of more than 1,000 female oncologists explores their difficult career choices amidst attempts to build families, their concerns about fertility, and their issues with discrimination during pregnancy and/or maternity leave. Dr. Fumiko Chino, Dr. Anna Lee, and Dr. Erin Gillespie discuss the survey's findings and share their own insights and experiences as female oncologists. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Fumiko Chino: Hello, I am Dr. Fumiko Chino, a radiation oncologist and health equity researcher at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and the guest host of the ASCO Daily News podcast today. In today's episode, we'll explore gender equity within the oncology workforce. Our discussion is centered on a newly published article in JAMA Network Open. This national survey of over 1,000 female oncologists found that 95% considered their career when planning a family, and about one-third faced fertility concerns when trying to become pregnant. Additional findings include that one-third faced discrimination during pregnancy and/or maternity leaves. Joining me for this discussion are study team members Dr. Anna Lee, an assistant professor in radiation oncology at the University of Texas, MD Anderson Cancer Center, and Dr. Erin Gillespie, an associate professor in radiation oncology at the University of Washington and a member of the Hutchinson's Institute for Cancer Outcomes Research. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript for this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the ASCO Daily News podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org\podcasts. We have all agreed to go by our first names today. Anna and Erin, it's great to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Anna Lee: Thank you, excited to be here. Dr. Erin Gillespie: Yeah, thanks so much, Fumiko. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Well, I'm hoping to just dive right in to talk about this study, which I was proud to be on the authorship team with both of you. I just want to give a little bit of setup about how this study started, which was essentially within our own group of junior female faculty. We have semi-regular meetings, and this idea for the study actually came up at a picnic for some young female faculty members. That then led to a small survey that I did on a Facebook group of young female oncologists and then, ultimately, to the national survey. So, Anna, do you mind telling me just a little bit about your research background and why this topic is important to you? Dr. Anna Lee: Yeah. So, when I was a resident along with my co-resident Virginia Osborn, we helped co-found a group called the Society for Women in Radiation Oncology, or SWRO. We were able to bring a group of women in our field who were interested in looking at the experiences of female radiation oncologists, both starting at the residency, the training level, but also into practice. And we had generated an initial survey looking at women's experience, and they found that even though the majority, almost 95% of women, felt like radiation oncology was a family-friendly field, only about half of the group actually felt that it was after their lived experiences. So, this kind of led me to being interested in participating in the development of this study. And personally, I have been going through the fertility journey myself. My partner and I got married last year and, you know, you think that for so long you put an effort into something and get a result and just how I did in academics or in terms of my career aspirations, you think that it'd be very straightforward, but it's been more of a challenge than I expected, and we are going through the whole workup process and considering our options. So this is a study that is of personal interest to me. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Thank you so much for sharing that. And Erin, do you mind just sharing a little bit about your background and why this topic is important for you? Dr. Erin Gillespie: My research really focuses on access to high-quality, patient-centered care. I'm from Anchorage, Alaska, so this idea of variation in quality and differences in care people receive has been central. And one thing that I've noticed over time is that the physician workforce has such an important—and physicians, in general, in oncology—have really big impacts on the care that patients receive. And in radiation oncology, we've seen for many decades now that we have only about 30% of our workforce is women. And to Anna's point, why is that? And I think this study sort of gets at some of the challenges that women may be foreseeing in entering an oncology career. For me personally, I started my first faculty position in my mid-30s. And it being a small field, I've moved around every few years from the best academic medical school to residency to a faculty position. And you know, in my mid-30s, I wasn't in a stable, long-term relationship, so I, as you were describing, went through the fertility preservation process and got to be fortunate to have a group of junior women faculty, like you, Fumiko, who would actually share and discuss. And it was in New York where all these discussions came to light, and in the actual fertility clinic, where you realize there's a lot of other career-oriented women with the same experiences. And so, how does this general phenomenon potentially impact us in oncology and downstream are patients who—there have done some studies that gender and sex sort of concordance between patients and providers can impact the types of treatments that people are receiving, so I think it's very important. Thanks for inviting me. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Yeah, I think that you bring up a really important point, which is that essentially when we think about equity issues, we're not just talking about access to high-quality care for patients, we're also talking about equity within our fields and within the workforce. And this concept of fertility research and gender equity within oncology, I think is, thankfully, rising in importance. And so, I was so happy to be able to be part of this study that looks at it. But, I guess, my next question is, what are the real barriers to doing this type of research, and what are the barriers to actually improving gender discrimination like what this study shows? Anna, do you want to take that first? Dr. Anna Lee: Yeah, sure. Well, there's certainly a strong amount of shame and stigma that comes along with infertility. Even being able to open up about it and share with your colleagues and go through a process that's very personal while you're working, but it kind of bleeds into or affects your day-to-day work life. So, that culture and that inability to be open about it I think is really making it difficult for people to share and discuss it publicly, and also, I think that there's some level of perception that this should not be discussed in an academic environment. But the reality is that even our survey study showed that women certainly thought about their career when it came to family planning. And so the more we discuss it, the more that we normalize this kind of conversation, it will bring to light how women are being affected by their careers. And also, I think that with our survey being completely anonymous, it was able to be an avenue for women to be able to share their experiences too. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Yeah, I know certainly I feel very privileged to have been at a large institution that really did have a very active and engaged group of young female faculty where I felt like almost protected by just numbers, for lack of a better term, and for us to be able to share our experience. Now, Erin, have you noticed anything in terms of, for example, the motherhood penalty on career or productivity in terms of the capacity for even getting the optimal position for yourself? You mentioned a little bit about your own experiences coming from a small area in Alaska and how that really made you have to hustle hard for optimal career outcomes. Dr. Erin Gillespie: I guess like when I think about—to Anna's point earlier, just having open discussion with people in the field, and like you said, being in New York, a fairly progressive environment and women are more open about these things early on, was definitely helpful. What I've heard of a lot of people beyond the career-driven nature, and you know, there was this article from The New York Times several years ago that I remember talked about women that had kids between 25 and 35, never were able to catch up to their peers because those are kind of the really critical career development phase and like really establishing yourself and your independence, which always kind of sat with me and I always justified it. It's just like, "Well, I guess the fact that I'm getting to these things later may have career benefits because I'm not actually ready to go through all these things in residency." And then, the other thing I've heard people talk a lot about in radiation oncology was the extensive oral boards, which just further—we do five years of radiation oncology and then there's another couple years, can be a couple of years of very intense studying and passing exams that used to be even more strictly timed. And so, people were literally delaying family planning in order to make sure that their jobs as a clinical radiation oncologist was safe and protected, and they could flourish in what they've spent their life working on. So, I do think, back to Anna's point, that just starting these conversations and engaging the board of radiology on how to actually accommodate women, a lot of it comes down to accommodations to encourage gender equity. Dr. Fumiko Chino: You know, one thing that was quite striking in our survey was just about essentially what people had to sacrifice in order to actually have kids, and this sort of patchwork formal paid family leave, and the fact that we really don't have a good national policy, and it's just very state- and institution-driven. And I know that Anna and Erin, you both actually each moved institutions within the last couple of years, moving from New York, which, as previously stated, is a pretty liberal state to your current institutions. So, I was just wondering if either of you could speak about how even the fact that we don't have a national policy in this patchwork leaves women sort of at the whims, in terms of planning their career and their family planning, at the whims of wherever they end up. Anna, I know you did a little bit more background research on this, do you want to take that first? Dr. Anna Lee: Yeah. Actually, when I moved out of New York to Texas, unlike New York where they have, I believe, it's a statewide policy for maternity leave paid, and we don't have anything like that here. But also, our insurance policy initially didn't cover OSI preservation or IVF. Recently, they do now cover that. So, I've been able to breathe a sigh of relief in knowing that I can start my journey in exploring these options and knowing that my institution supports me in that way by having that coverage. So, definitely having institutional buy-in allows us to have more freedom and flexibility and feel the relief in knowing that, "Okay, I can prioritize both my career and my personal life, and be able to support both, and have my career also support that part of my life." Dr. Fumiko Chino: Erin, anything to add for that? Again, I know that you just moved institutions. Dr. Erin Gillespie: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. When I was looking, my husband and I were actually not living in the same city. So, as we became pregnant, the desire to be in the same place became more real. But thinking about changing institutions was complicated, and ultimately, the state laws—you know, so, we learned about multiple states, and having state laws is helpful, although FMLA requires you to be in a place for usually about a year in order to qualify for any of the state benefits. And so, what I ended up finding was that the institutions ultimately still played a huge role in determining if you wanted to change your career, that it was up to the institution to really support a maternity leave situation. So, while I think that the state can set like some general guidance that probably helps the culture, ultimately, institutions play a huge role. I was actually just talking to one of my co-residents from UC San Diego, who is in a private practice in Anchorage, and he was asking me, "Are there any general guidelines in family leave for radiation oncology? Have you seen anything to help institutions, large or small, really establish best practices?" And I referred him to SWRO because I said if anybody knows of anything that's been drafted, it would be your organization. But I honestly don't think that there is anything, and I think that is a room for improvement. Dr. Fumiko Chino: That really segues into our next topic, which is how do we really advocate for ourselves and our colleagues to improve the status quo? Because as it stands, it's phenomenal that we have landed in places that have both the insurance and the policy coverage for maternity leave and for fertility concerns, but I think a lot of our colleagues aren't so lucky. Anna, do you want to take that first? Dr. Anna Lee: Yeah. I think when it's available, both men and women should take family leave or paternal leave. Taking leave when either sex has a child, it kind of normalizes the fact that child care should be an equal distribution of work, and also that we need to value both men and women being at home to take care of the first few months of a child's life. So, once we have that, I think that when you improve the culture of an organization, it can automatically help support the institutional buy-in as well. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Yeah, that whole "he for she," and it's hilarious to think that just men taking paternity leave when allowed really does—number one, they have more bonding with their new baby, but also, it makes it normal that everyone is taking leave because that seems appropriate, what's best for the family and also what's best for the individual person to actually have that time with their child. Erin, additional thoughts in terms of how do we advocate for ourselves? Dr. Erin Gillespie: Yeah. To that point, I will say I really applaud Memorial Sloan Kettering for having people like Sean McBride in our leadership that were young enough to really advocate for having paternal leave in addition to maternal leave and making that something that the junior faculty were like, you know, it's not just something that's possible, but should be expected. And so, I see an opportunity for institutions to really give leadership opportunities to kind of these junior, mid-level faculty that really can have a cultural influence on how people—not that every man in our department has taken that leave, certainly, but I feel like there is this need to change the culture because until men are actually taking significant leave, there is still this disparity. Dr. Fumiko Chino: You know, I have to reflect kind of on my own role models. My mother had 5 kids in 6 years, as being a physician, a radiation oncologist. And in my mind now, as someone who is a radiation oncologist who has zero kids, I have no idea how she did it. I feel like it was so challenging for me to just build the career that I have. So, I was just wondering, are there people that you can look to as role models? I think, honestly, Erin, you said Sean McBride, as you know, an active and engaged father, who is very open and speaks frequently of his, you know, daddy duties. Again, it's hilarious that I'm pointing to Sean as a role model, but he really is. I mean, that's part of his persona. Anna, do you have role models in terms of thinking about how to have that delicate balance in this idea of like you could have it all? Dr. Anna Lee: Fortunately, I have so many peer mentors, and friends, and people in the field going back to residency, seeing my co-resident, Virginia Osborn, going through training, having 2—she had 2 kids during training, and then, you know, seeing even faculty here having children early in their mid-career, just being able to balance everything, and making sure that they really understand the policies of the institution so that they're taking what they can in terms of their leave and their benefits. So, I think that they're showing me that we don't need to be apologetic about taking leave. We don't need to necessarily ask our colleagues or be apologetic to our colleagues or to our institution for taking leave because it's a part of our life, it's a part of our fabric, in terms of being able to have children and raise them. And if that's something that one wants in their personal life, I feel like it's something that is, obviously, going to affect both their careers, but the career will affect their personal life, and being able to achieve both of those is something that we can all strive to help each other. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, honestly, it's great to have role models and people who are, you know, working to make the environment better in terms of gender equity. I think one of the most surprising findings from this study was that, actually, there was a minority of women who actually felt discrimination during pregnancy and maternity leave that actually came exclusively from other women. Erin, do you have any comment on that? Is that reflective of anything that you've seen? Dr. Erin Gillespie: Yeah. This issue of there is still ongoing challenges of the idea that women discriminate as much or more against women. When I look back on my own mentorship, I've actually had mostly strong male mentors, and they were as family-oriented and work-life balance. I mean, Jim Murphy, as a resident, and then Justin Bekelman, as a faculty member. They've always been very imperative that your personal life is a high priority and that you don't necessarily sacrifice that. And to do that, you have to be smart about the commitments that you make and how you balance these things. But despite that, one of my mentors recently said, you know—and men can give great advice, and they can certainly advocate, and I think it's critical that they provide that. But one of my mentors recently said, "Ultimately, as you enter this new phase of being a mother, you need to find really close, strong, women mentors that have actually been through this because their experience is just not the same. As much as we can talk the talk, there is still a fundamental difference, and mentorship on both sides is critical." Dr. Fumiko Chino: Absolutely. Wrapping up this podcast, do you have any other final thoughts, either Erin or Anna, about our findings on how we can continue to make sure we're making improvements for ourselves but also for the field? Dr. Anna Lee: I am encouraged, though, that I think we're seeing incremental improvements in our field. You know, I can't speak on all of oncology, but in radiation oncology, even the timing is more flexible. We're able to be boarded through Zoom, and we don't have to travel to a single site. So, I think that we are seeing incremental improvements and there's a lot of, now with both the Society for Women in Radiation Oncology, but we have Radiation Oncology Women Physicians' Group, we have different groups that are advocating and making sure that our voices are heard and that, you know, our voices also are translating into policy level changes. And so, we still don't have national level, or I don't think we have blanket society-level recommendations for maternity leave that we can refer to, and I don't think all institutions are adopting them universally, but I think that there's a growing course and a growing movement of people kind of advocating for that, and we're inching towards that slowly, but surely. Dr. Erin Gillespie: Yeah. And I think that to that point, just the thing that I've tried to change in my own practice has been to normalize the conversation because going back to what I said, moving to New York, it was a normal conversation that you talked about these things, which hadn't been the case before. And so, you know, with my medical students, residents, I'm very open about what are some challenges, but what are the solutions and how do you balance these things, so that they feel like this doesn't have to be something that you suffer, or think, or worry about without there being people to talk to. Dr. Fumiko Chino: No, I think that was a really true concept and the idea of like—I know when I was on my interview surge, I was told, "Don't ask about the maternity leave because future employers are going think that you're trying to get everything out of them." But the idea that we shouldn't even ask about it, it seems insane, so I'm glad we're moving forward. I want to thank you both, Dr. Anna Lee and Dr. Erin Gillespie, for sharing your valuable insights with us today and for your dedication to addressing gender equity issues and oncology. Dr. Anna Lee: Thank you so much. Dr. Erin Gillespie: Thanks so much. Dr. Fumiko Chino: Thanks to our listeners for your time today. You'll find a link to the article discussed today in the transcript of this episode. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy, should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Fumiko Chino Dr. Anna Lee Dr. Erin Gillespie Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn Disclosures: Dr. Fumiko Chino: None disclosed. Dr. Anna Lee: None disclosed. Dr. Erin Gillespie: Other Relationship: eContour.org