The Systemic Way

Dessa Markovic is a therapist, trainer, and clinical director at the School of Life therapy service. She shares insights from her paper on reading, introducing a model that intertwines the Author's View, personal response, critique, and self-reflexivity. The discussion emphasizes the importance of suspending judgment and recognizing biases in reading. Markovic explores how systemic thinking can transform practices in therapy and education, encouraging listeners to engage deeply with texts and reflect on their personal experiences in the process.

In this insightful conversation, Satish Kumar—peace activist, former Jain monk, and author of Radical Love—explores the transformative power of love as a systemic force for healing. He discusses how Radical Love can reshape education, economics, and politics, emphasizing interdependence and compassion. Satish shares personal stories from his epic peace walks and emphasizes the essential connection between soil, soul, and society. Tune in for a refreshing perspective on nurturing resilience through love and challenging societal norms with empathy.

Join Nora Bateson, an award-winning filmmaker and systems thinker, as she delves into the intricate web of human relationships and ecological connections. She emphasizes the importance of "warm data"—the subtle nuances of communication that reveal our interdependence. Nora challenges conventional thinking by advocating for a holistic approach to understanding systems, exploring how systemic psychotherapy intertwines with complex societal issues. Through evocative storytelling, she shows how embracing complexity is essential for fostering resilience and meaningful connections.

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe.Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal journeys into systemic therapy, the organization’s current goals, and the evolving landscape of family and systemic practice in response to global challenges—from climate change to social justice.We also dive into the EFTA Task Forces—on Social Justice, Research, Training Standards, Ethics, and External Relationships—and explore how these working groups are shaping the future of systemic thinking and action.Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or just discovering systemic ideas, this episode offers an open invitation to get involved, attend the upcoming EFTA Congress, and take part in a growing, reflective, and forward-thinking community.

In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice. Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a lens of social justice, inclusivity, and innovation. This is a conversation about change, continuity, and the power of collective vision.https://ift.org.uk/

Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing.  We’ll unpack:  - The origins of her work—What drew her to the Mental Research Institute (MRI) and constructivist ideas? Who were her early influences?  - The birth of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach—How did she and Harry Goolishian shift therapy from "expert diagnosis" to conversational meaning-making?  - The myth of "not-knowing*—How has this controversial (and often misunderstood) concept evolved? Is it a political stance, a therapeutic tool, or both?  - Power, reflexivity, and ethics—Can therapists truly "not know"? How do we balance lived experience with professional knowledge without reinforcing oppressive dynamics?  - Real-world applications**—How do these ideas translate beyond therapy into education, organisations, and social justice?  Plus, we include listener questions which tackle the tough critiques: Is "not-knowing" still misused today? Does it risk ignoring systemic power? And how do therapists ethically choose which discourses to engage?  This is a conversation about unlearning, curiosity, and the transformative power of dialogue—one that challenges therapists and listeners alike to rethink how we engage with each other’s stories.  

In this engaging conversation, Dr. John Launer, a retired GP and family therapist, shares his pioneering work in narrative medicine and the Conversations Inviting Change method. He discusses the transformative Seven Cs framework for patient interactions and the importance of storytelling in medicine. Dr. Launer highlights the challenges within the NHS and the need for curiosity-driven practices. With thoughtful anecdotes, he illustrates how systemic approaches can revolutionize healthcare, ultimately enriching both patient care and clinician experiences.

Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics.In this insightful podcast episode, John Burnham, reflects on his decades-long career, sharing personal and professional experiences that have shaped his approach to systemic psychotherapy. He discusses the importance of relationships, both in therapy and in life, emphasizing how trust, risk-taking, and role-playing are essential tools for growth and connection. John recounts memorable moments from his practice, including how live supervision and reflective teams have influenced his work, and highlights the value of humility, curiosity, and adaptability in therapeutic practice. He also touches on the evolution of family therapy, the importance of staying relevant in the field, and his hopes for its future. With warmth and wisdom, John offers a heartfelt exploration of what it means to be a therapist, a colleague, and a lifelong learner in the ever-changing landscape of psychotherapy.Summary of episode:Role of Role Play in Learning:Importance of role play in helping students learn by making mistakes, recovering, and moving forward.Example of a supervisor demonstrating techniques with families in front of students, which students found helpful.Overcoming Fear of Failure:Students often hold back due to fear of making mistakes or not knowing how to start.Encouragement to take action, even if clumsy, rather than waiting to be "clever" or perfect.Families can be forgiving and collaborative in the process.Engaging Families in Therapy:Therapists need to show willingness to engage with families before expecting families to engage in therapy.Importance of taking initiative and co-creating solutions with families.Example of a therapist reading through a client's extensive notes and deciding to engage based on the person, not just the notes.Building Trust with Marginalized Families:Some families, such as same-sex couples, may fear judgment or criticism from therapists.Therapists need to reach out and create a safe space for these families to engage.Example of a therapist meeting a same-sex couple at the top of the stairs to reassure them and invite them into therapy.Ethics of Offering Therapy:Debate on whether to offer therapy without meeting the client first.Perspective that it is unethical to reject clients without meeting them and understanding their unique situation.Personal Reflections on Career and Privilege:Gratitude for being able to work in a field that is fulfilling and impactful.Reflection on the privilege of loving one's job and making a contribution to others' lives.Connection to personal family history, such as a parent who trained as a family therapist but never practiced.Decolonization in Family Therapy:Family therapy as a decolonizing process against the medical model and individualization.Discussion of presentism and judging past actions by current standards.Reflection on the lack of exposure to racial issues in a monocultural environment and how that shaped early understanding.Intergenerational Impact of Training:Therapists training the children of those they previously trained, highlighting the long-term impact of their work. 

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Putman, founder of Open Dialogue UK and a leading force in adapting the Open Dialogue approach to the UK. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist and certified Open Dialogue practitioner and trainer, Nick shares his journey of learning directly from pioneers like Jaakko Seikkula and Jorma Ahonen, and how he has worked to bring this revolutionary approach to the NHS and beyond.We explore Nick’s visits to Western Lapland to study Open Dialogue in practice, his work running training programmes internationally, and his contributions as co-editor of Open Dialogue for Psychosis. With over 25 years of experience in mental health settings, Nick offers deep insights into how prioritising dialogue, relationships, and meaning can transform care for people experiencing psychosis and their families.Join us for an inspiring conversation about the challenges and triumphs of bringing Open Dialogue to the UK and reshaping mental health services.

In this episode, we’re joined by attendees from the Hayaa’ Network’s groundbreaking conference on neurodiversity, held in Singapore in February 2024. Together, we reflect on the latest advancements in practice, research, and theory in this rapidly evolving area of mental health, all through a systemic lens. Featuring insights from keynote speakers Dr. Marwa Azab, Ms. Nora Bateson, Ms. Maimunah Mosli, and Dr. Mairi Evans, this conversation dives into the intersections of neurodiversity and systemic practice. We explore the complexities shaping the experiences of neurodivergent individuals and their families, offering fresh perspectives on the interplay between mental health and neurodiversity.Tune in for an engaging discussion that highlights the rich tapestry of systemic approaches in this vital field.We are joined by:Rubi SalamRupert ArmistadEleanor OsmanShalia Sheikh Ameesha Sharif