Resilient Cyber

- First off, tell us a bit about your background, you were a developer prior to focusing on Law. Why the change and do you feel that technical background helps you in your legal and academic career?- Before we dive into the specifics of the paper and topics, what led you to focus on this issue for research and publication?- You penned an article about how modern digital infrastructure is built on a "house of cards". Can you elaborate on that?- Your paper is broken down into several sections, so let's step through those and dissect each area a bit.- You touch on the unique aspects of OSS from proprietary code and discuss the benefits and also the risks. Can you discuss some of those?- You claim that OSS should be designated critical infrastructure and arguably under areas such as the IT Sector. First off, why do you think it should be, and why do you think it already hasn't been?- In part II of your paper you went into topics around the origins of OSS security issues and barriers to resolution. What are some of the major issues and barriers to resolving them?- You touch on economic theory such as the least-cost avoider. What exactly is that, and why do you think software vendors in this case are best-suited to fix some of the core OSS security issues?- In part III of the paper you discuss some of the current interventions and efforts. Can you touch on what some of those major efforts are?- You discuss emerging things such as the Open Source Software Security Act as well as the OMB Memo requiring vendors to self-attest to NIST's SSDF and even provide SBOM's. What are your thoughts on these emerging requirements?- How do you think we balance the need to keep the spirit of OSS, in terms of being open to everyone, cultivate a society of citizen developers and a thriving FOSS ecosystem while also pushing for more rigor and governance? Do we risk constraining the ecosystem and limiting the Federal government (and industry's) access to small innovative software projects and initiatives? 

- Looking at your background, you've held a lot of Identity-centric roles and positions in the industry. How do you think Identity and associated security is evolving with the continued adoption of Cloud?- Identity is obviously at the core of the conversation around Zero Trust, what do you think some of the fundamental things organizations get wrong when it comes IAM at-scale?- You recently made the pivot from roles with a strong Identity focus to API and API Security. What drove you to make that shift? - What do you think some of the most interesting challenges are in the current API Security landscape?- I noticed you also have an Army background. It is very common to see veterans make their way into Cybersecurity. Why do you think that is, and there are any lessons from the Army you feel have benefited you in your Cyber career?

Chris: Before we dive into too many specific topics, one thing I wanted to ask is, you've been working in/around the topic of SBOM and Software Supply Chain for sometime via NTIA, CycloneDX, SCVS etc. How did you have the foresight or what drove you to focus on this topic well before many others in the industry?Nikki: You mentioned recently about the SBOM Forum and their recommendation of the NVD adopt Package URL. I think the recommendations are great for NVD, because the NVD, CVE ID mechanisms, and CWE's weren't technically built for al ot of the updated vulnerabilities and concerns we see today, especially in the software supply chain. Can you talk a little bit about the challenges around vulnerability management when it comes to software supply chain?Chris: I wanted to ask you about SaaSBOM which has been a topic of discussion in the CISA SBOM WG that I know you and I participate in. What is a SaaSBOM in your mind and where does it begin and end, given most of the Cloud, including Infrastructure is software-defined.  Nikki: I liked your article titled "SBOM should not exist! Long live the SBOM" - what really caught me was the idea that BOM's or Bill of Materials have been around for a while, and in other industries as well. I'm curious because there are a lot of potential implications for using BOM's outside of software. What are you thoughts on how we could potentially use the idea of BOMs in other cybersecurity or software development areas? Chris: I want to discuss some critiques of SBOM. VEX Is promising but of course requires information from software producers, and then of course trusting their assertions. VEX: Do you see a future where both SBOM and VEX and automated in terms of generation and ingestion to inform organizational vulnerability management and potentially procurement activities? Nikki: I would be re-missed if I didn't ask you about the human element in all of this. I fee like the complexity of the software supply chain, on top of infrastructure, operations, cloud deployments, etc, can get somewhat complex. How do you think the increased complexity around software supply chain is affecting the management and operations groups?Chris: You have long been the lead on the wildly popular Dependency Track project. Can you tell us a bit about its origins, where it stands today and where it is headed?Chris: There has been a lot of guidance lately on Software Supply Chain, such as NIST EO outputs from Section 4, NIST SSDF, guidance from CSA, CNCF et. al - how does SCVS fit into the mix and do you see organizations using all, or rallying around some of the guidance? Chris Follow Up: Some have claimed that these requirements are simply impractical for anyone except large enterprise organizations and software producers. Any thoughts on the practicality of the guidance for smaller organizations who still play a major role in the software ecosystem?

Chris: To start us off, why do you think OSS and the software supply chain are now beginning to get so much attention, despite being widely used for years now?Chris: When it comes to OSS, any thoughts on how we balance security while also not stifling the innovative creative environment that is the OSS ecosystem?Nikki: On one of your recent podcast episodes, you discussed how open source can be unfair, whether that's to users or to developers. Can you break that down a little bit for our audience?Nikki: I think there are a lot of valuable lessons from the past that inform future trends. What would you say some of the top emerging trends are around open-source software - what should we be concerned about today versus a year from now?Chris: What are your thoughts on the current state of Vulnerability Databases, we know you have some strong opinions and have been involved in an effort titled the Global Security Database with CSA - can you tell us a bit about that and why it is needed?Chris: Do you think the emerging frameworks such as NIST 800 161 R1, SSDF, SLSA etc. are going in the right direction?Chris: We couldn't let you go without discussing SBOM. What are your thoughts on the current state and direction of both SBOM and VEX. Do you think this increased level of transparency and granularity of vulnerabilities will be something most organizations can manage successfully?Nikki: You have 341 episodes of your podcast - can you talk a little bit about why you wanted to get into podcasting? And also if you have any tips or advice for anyone who wants to start their own podcast?Nikki: One of the major areas I don't hear being discussed around open source software is the 'human factor'. I see the integration of open source software as alleviating some of the mental workloads and information processing for developers and teams, but may also introduce other concerns. How do you feel about the human factor around OSS?

- What do you think some of the primary factors are that contributed to GRC not coming along initially with the DevOps movement?- Traditionally, what factors have plagued compliance when it comes to software delivery?- How do some of those factors change in the era of DevOps and Cloud-native?- Do you think regulation has a significant impact, and how can policy and regulation be improved?- How important is it for the workforce aspect of GRC to be addressed when it comes to compliance innovation and new technologies and ways of work?- Can incentives play a part, and if so, what can we do to improve that?- Andres - What was the impetus of the book and can you tell us a bit about the writing experience?- Where can people find out more about the book?

Chris: What do you think some of the fundamental changes of IAM are from on-prem to cloud?Chris: What are some of the key tradeoffs and considerations for using IDaaS offerings?Nikki: There are a lot of solutions out there that discuss zero trust as a product or a service that can be leveraged to 'bake in' zero trust into an environment. But I'm curious on your perspective - do you think we need additional tools to configure zero trust principles, or leverage the technology at hand to implement zero trust?Nikki: There's this move towards passwordless solutions - I can see that being a big boost to zero trust architectures, but I think we're still missing the need for trusted identities, whether it's passwords, pins, or tokens. How do you feel about the passwordless movement and do you think more products will move in that direction?Chris: You've been a part of the FICAM group and efforts in the CIO Council. Can you tell us a bit about that and where it is headed?Chris: It is said Identity is the new perimeter in the age of Zero Trust, why do you think this is and how can organizations address it?Nikki: There was an interesting research publication I read, titled "Beyond zero trust: Trust is a vulnerability" by M. Campbell in the IEEE Computer journal. I like the idea of considering zero trust principles, like least privilege, or limited permissions, as potential vulnerabilities instead of security controls. Do you think the language is important when discussing vulnerabilities versus security controls?Chris: What role do you think NPE's play in the modern threat landscape?Chris: If people want to learn more about the Federal FICAM/ZT Strategies, where do you recommend they begin?

Chris: For those not familiar with CVSS, what exactly is it, and why is vulnerability scoring important?Chris: What are some of the most notable critiques of CVSS?Nikki: I read your article 'A Closer look at CVSS Scores" and have had a lot of similar thoughts. The CVSS SIG is doing great work, and there are other scoring methods out there to help determine the real threat of vulnerabilities. Do you have any advice for organizations that are struggling with the amount of High and Critical vulnerabilities they see based on this scoring method? Chris: Do you think organizations approaching Vulnerability Management using CVSS strictly from base scores is an effective approach?Nikki:  Do you think that the industry needs a shift as far as vulnerability scoring systems? Not from a mathematical or quantification space, because we have some great people working on that. But from the understanding of how those vulnerabilities actually impact their businesses? Nikki: Where do you see vulnerability scoring and vulnerability management activities heading? Do you think we need some other methods for scoring insider threat and accumulating those scores with hardware and software vulnerabilities?Chris: Pivoting a bit from vulnerability scoring, I know you're also involved with groups such as OpenSSF. Can you tell us a bit about that work?Chris: What are your thoughts on Software Supply Chain Security more broadly, in terms of SBOM's, VEX, and the uptick in Software Supply Chain Attacks. Do you think we're trending in the right direction to respond to the rise in these attacks?

Chris: So you're a proponent of a term called RegOps, can you explain what that is to us a bit and how it differs from traditional compliance?Nikki: I'm interested in your background from Solutions Architect, to CTO, to Co-founding and running companies. Do you have any advice for other architects or IT and security practitioners for building up leadership skills and transitioning to business ownership? Chris: Do you think the evolution of Cloud and API enabled platforms is positioning us to innovate in compliance and potentially keep pace with DevSecOps? Nikki: What are some of the biggest reasons that organizations fail audits - do you feel like GRC/compliance and framework adoption is too challenging? Do you think that organizations are underwater with missing controls and where can they start? Chris: We know you're a big proponent of OSCAL and your organization RegScale has contributed to some of the OSCAL working groups. For those not familiar, can you explain what OSCAL is and the potential impact it can have on compliance?Nikki: What do you see as some of the emerging trends around solving compliance issues - do you think we need a mix of tooling, processes, and orienting our practitioners/users to adapt? Or do we have too many different frameworks/guidelines that it can be difficult for us to keep up?Chris: Looking at the future of compliance in say 3-5 years, how different do you think it will be and do you think this push towards automation, API's, codified artifacts and such will change compliance forever?

Nikki - In one of your recent posts you speak about how more organizations are looking to leverage service mesh in their own environments. Can you talk a little bit about why a team may be interested in moving to a more service mesh architecture? Nikki: What do you think may impede or stop an organization from adopting updated networking practices and technologies, like service mesh, and how can they get started adopting it?Chris: What role do you think Service Mesh plays in the push for Zero Trust and maturing security in cloud-native environments?Chris: I've heard you use the team Secure Service Networking, what exactly is this, and is it different than Service Mesh? We know there are the four pillars of Service Networking: Service Discovery, Secure Network, Automate Network, Access Service. What are these exactly? Chris: In the context of micro-services and Kubernetes, how does networking change? Nikki: The field of engineering is growing more and more, we have Infrastructure Engineers, Application Engineers, versus the traditional job roles of Systems or Software Engineers. Do you see an industry trend moving to expanding the engineering field into different disciplines, like Platform Engineers? Or do you think some of these roles are similar but are getting updated titles?Chris: HashiCorp has some excellent offerings such as Terraform, Vault, Consul and so on. What resources can folks use to upskill in these technologies?Nikki: I saw you recently did a talk on securing service level networking for the DoD - do you feel like a lot of those principles apply outside of the DOD or federal space? Or do you see the private sector using more of these technologies?

 Nikki: In some ways I think "software supply chain security" has become almost a buzz word, or buzz phrase? But to me it's more of a concern for security programs at large, since so many products and services are being developed in-house at organizations. What are the top three concerns that CISO's or security leaders should know? Chris: We're obviously seeing a lot of buzz around SBOM, and now VEX. What are your thoughts on where things are headed with software component inventory and SBOM as part of cyber vulnerability management?Chris: You were involved in the CNCF Secure Software Factory Reference Architecture. How was that experience and do you think organizations will be able to adopt the practices and guidance laid out there? There are a lot of moving parts. Nikki: How do you feel about how pentests should be involved in a software supply chain security program? I personally am curious about possible implications and benefits of actively (and consistently) testing dependencies and potentially finding unknown vulnerabilities.Chris: So we've talked about frameworks and guidance. Another big one is SLSA, Supply Chain Levels for Software Artifacts. What are your thoughts on SLSA and it's utility in the broader software supply chain security conversation.Chris: SCRM can be like eating an elephant when you look at CSP's, MSP's, Software, and so on - what are your thoughts for organizations that don't have the resources of say a CitiBank, such as an SMB. Where do they start?Nikki: I think we're still missing the human element of what a software supply chain security program looks like - how do you feel about that? Do you think we need to take more into account how people are using software, from a developer and a user perspective?Chris: There has been a lot of focus on Containers of course in the conversation around Cloud-native ecosystems, coupled with Kubernetes, IaC and so on. Do you think these innovations make the challenge of software supply chain easier, or more difficult to manage?