Those of us in the deconstruction community have been accused of many things over the last few years by individuals and institutions in the evangelical establishment. We've been accused of deconstructing our faith because we want to sin more, or that we have a rebellious nature, or we just want to have sex with anything and anyone, or that we've been corrupted by a liberal agenda. None of these claims are true. In fact, from all the countless conversations we've had with fellow deconstructionists over the years, most of us left evangelicalism because evangelicalism left Jesus. This movement is toxic, harmful, and frankly it needs to die. In this episode, Dr. David Gushee of Mercer University describes his own journey out of evangelicalism and provides language for the myriad of faithful reasons to leave this toxic movement behind. From Trumpism, white supremacy, LGBTQIA+ exclusion, and biblical literalism, Gushee gives language for why millions of us have left the church building. Plus, he provides not only one of the most succinct and beautiful apologetics for full LGBTQIA+ inclusion in the church, but he also provides a "biblical" justification for same sex marriage. BioRev. Dr. David P. Gushee (PhD, Union Theological Seminary, New York) is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics, Mercer University, Chair in Christian Social Ethics, Vrije Universiteit, and Senior Research Fellow, International Baptist Theological Study Centre.Dr. Gushee is the elected Past-President of both the American Academy of Religion and Society of Christian Ethics, signaling his role as one of the world’s leading Christian ethicists. He is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of 25 books and approximately 175 book chapters, journal articles, and reviews. His most recognized works include Righteous Gentiles of the Holocaust, Kingdom Ethics, The Sacredness of Human Life, and Changing Our Mind. His book, After Evangelicalism, charts a theological and ethical course for post-evangelical Christians, a course he more personally relates in his memoir, Still Christian.Over a full 28-year career, he’s been a devoted teacher and mentor as Professor Gushee to college students, seminarians, and PhD students. He’s also led significant activist efforts on climate, torture, and LGBTQ inclusion, and is a keynote speaker at churches, forums, and universities.Quotables“One of the reasons why I have left evangelicalism is that I believe that at least U.S. white evangelicalism has jumped the tracks in terms of being a faithful path for following Jesus…Something has gone pretty wrong with this branch of the Christian community.”“Evangelicalism has some problems, and the LGBTQIA+ issue was only one of the problems.”“U.S. white evangelicalism has become toxic and I don’t belong in that community.”“America is a white Anglo-Saxon protestant nation. Everyone else is here by sufferance.” -Franklin D. Roosevelt“The idea that this country belongs to white Christian people, notable of course white Christian men, white straight Christian men, is the founding power structure of our country.” “Trump embodies disgust that someone like Barack Obama could become President of the United States.”“Trump has embodied and advanced a reactionary narrative, but what could not have been anticipated was that 85% of white evangelicals went over the cliff with him.”“Once Trump solidified his grip on the heart of the people, it has been unbreakable.”“Trump has been both unveiled problems that were already there, and made them immeasurably worse.”“Europeans began to think of themselves as not only as Christian, not only as superior, but as white. And spreading all over the world to colonize, Christianize, and enslave all over the world without any problem.”“Evangelicalism and structured racism grew up together in America, and they intertwined to where you can’t tell where one leaves off and one begins.”“White supremacism has not been repented and continues to resurface.”“We don’t want our kids to go to school with black people.”“All of this is pretty obviously adrift away from the Jesus we meet in the Gospels. Jesus is not the problem.”“The reason why there is inclusion of LGBTQIA+ individuals is that we are following the radical inclusion of Christ.”Please follow us on social media (use the buttons below) and help us get the word out! (Also, please don’t hesitate to use any of these channels or email to contact us with any questions, concerns, or feedback.)If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/why-I-deconstructed-evangelicalismhttp://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/why-I-deconstructed-evangelicalismFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

It's really hard to call yourself a Christian these days. But when you are a minister in conservative Oklahoma and call yourself a kind of “atheist,” well that’s a whole other issue! Reverend Dr. Robin Meyers is one of many progressive voices that laid the groundwork for the deconstruction movement. And for him, it all started by asking one question: “The question isn’t what is a Christian, but rather how is one Christian?” Unfortunately, the answer to that question has changed dramatically over the years, especially in the West. Modern Christianity looks almost nothing like the original version of faith professed by the Early Church. Once the church was a clear threat to the status quo, now the church is largely a defender of the status quo, blessing both a warrior worshiping militarism and a death-dealing and predatory capitalism. For the Early Church, Christianity had almost nothing to do with believing the 'right' things; it had everything to do with living the right way. Which begs the real question: what is faith anyway? In this episode, Reverend Dr. Robin Meyers (The God Seminar) shares his story of doubt, deconstruction, and reconstruction as a liberal minister in Trump country. For him, Christianity isn't an orthodox set of beliefs but rather a very unorthodox way of being in the world. Dr. Meyers reintroduces us to not only the radical nature of the Gospels, but to the Jesus we've never known. As he says, "Jesus is the most misunderstood figure in human history." If you are done with the Church but can't quite quit Jesus, this is the episode for you! BIOIn addition to being Distinguished Professor of Social Justice, Rev. Dr. Meyers has served as senior minister of Mayflower Congregational UCC Church of Oklahoma City since 1985. He is the author of seven books, and lectures extensively on the merits of Progressive Christianity. His books call the church to be a beloved community of resistance to injustice in our time. Dr. Meyers earned a PhD from the Communication Department at the University of Oklahoma for his work in the area ofpersuasion and preaching. Dr. Meyers has published six additional books in his 25-year tenure including The Underground Church: Reclaiming the Subversive Way of Jesus (Jossey Bass, 2012); and Spiritual Defiance: Building a Beloved Community of Resistance (Yale University Press, 2015). His most recent book, Saving God From Religion is out now. Dr. Meyers is a frequent speaker at church workshops, academic conferences, and political events around the country. He is an award-winning commentator for NPR and a columnist for The Oklahoma Gazette. He has appeared on Dateline NBC, The McNeil-Lehrer Hour, and ABC World News Tonight, among others. His lecture at Yale University, Faith as Resistance to Empire, continues to be one of the most transformative talks for any Jesus follower who longs to push back against the brutal realities of American common life. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/saving-jesus-from-evangelicalsFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

When bad things happen, I often hear people say "Well, God's still on the throne," as if that is some kind of balm or solution for the pain, evil, and uncertainty the world is facing. But here's the problem: God was on the throne during the Holocaust. God was on the throne during segregation and Jim Crow. God is on the throne as thousands of innocent Ukrainian citizens are currently dying from Russian invasion. If God really is in control, then God is doing a terrible job keeping us all safe and healthy. Classical Christianity has for years stated that God is omnipotent and all-powerful, controlling every outcome and action on earth to bring about God's future. However, this has all kinds of theological and practical problems. If God is really in control, then why do we suffer? Can't God stop our suffering? Open and Relational Theology points us to a different view of God. Instead of a all-controlling God, the God of Open Theism believes that God is experiencing time in the same way we are. This God isn't forcing His will on the world but rather working with us to bring about goodness, beauty, and flourishing. This God doesn't know what is going to happen tomorrow anymore than we do, and in a strange way, that is incredibly comforting. Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord is a best-selling and award-winning author, having written or edited more than twenty-five books. He directs a doctoral program at Northwind Theological Seminary and the Center for Open and Relational Theology. A twelve-time Faculty Award-winning professor, he teaches around the globe. Oord is known for his contributions to research on love, open and relational theology, science and religion, and the implications of freedom and relationships for transformation.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/god-is-not-in-control-open-theismhttp://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/God-is-not-in-control-open-theismFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode SummaryMen are in charge and women submit. Men lead and women follow. Men have a biblical mandate from God to lead the Church and the home while women are ordained by God to be silent and submissive not only to their husbands, but every other male leader they encounter in the Church. These are the lies many of us grew up believing. These are the lies keeping so many women in abusive relationships the world over. These are the lies "theobros" want you to believe. Well, thank God for Dr. Beth Allison Barr and her historical and theological understanding of the New Testament world.Author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood, Dr. Barr joins us today to discuss a more accurate and historical look at some of the “texts of terror” that have been used against women for almost 1,700 years. Instead of Scripture supporting patriarchy and misogyny, the New Testament actually proves that from the very beginning, women had equal footing in the Church. However, due to dominator theology and the men who created it, we’ve all but lost the sort of revolutionary gender equality espoused by the Early Church. If you've always wanted an apologetic for female equality in the church and home, this episode is for you!BioBeth Allison Barr received her B.A. in History (with a minor in Classics) from Baylor University and her M.A. and Ph.D. in Medieval History from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She is the author of The Pastoral Care of Women in Late Medieval England, co-editor of The Acts of the Apostles: Four Centuries of Baptist Interpretation, co-editor of Faith and History: A Devotional, and—most recently—the author of the best selling The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. Dr. Barr writes regularly on The Anxious Bench, a religious history blog on Patheos, and has contributed to Religion News Service, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, The Dallas Morning News, Sojourners, Baptist News Global, etc. Her work has been featured by NPR and The New Yorker, and she is actively sought as an academic speaker. You can find more about her public writings, interviews, and podcasts on her website http://bethallisonbarr.com. Since receiving tenure in the History department in 2014, Dr. Barr has served as Graduate Program Director in History (2016-2019), received a Centennial Professor Award (2018), received appointment as a Faculty-in-Residence for the LEAD Living and Learning Community in Allen/Dawson Residential Hall (where she has lived and served since 2018), and served as an Associate Dean in the Baylor Graduate School (2019-2022). She is also a Baptist pastor’s wife and mom of two great kids.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/rethinking-biblical-womanhood-beth-allison-barrhttp://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/rethinking-biblical-womanhood-beth-allison-barrFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Kelly Rose Lamb.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Leaving white evangelicalism is one thing. Leaving white spaces and white theology is quite another. Writer and activist Dante Stewart joins us today to discuss his new book Shoutin In the Fire: An American Epistle. and how he escaped slaveholder religion in his quest to uncover the heart of Christianity. His journey as a black, Christian, American out of predominantly white spaces offers a path forward for all of us who are longing for liberation from the oppressive subculture that is American evangelicalism. Drawing on the stories of his youth, black literature, and black theology, Dante invites us to do the necessary work of deconstructing and even decentering white voices, white spaces, white theology, and white exceptionalism. He shares his own struggles with the trauma and loss of identity when he fled evangelicalism in search of a freer faith. Stewart draws from the black voices like Toni Morrison, James Cone, James Baldwin, and Maya Angelou to show us a better future, one free from oppression, domination, and the dehumanizing aspects of white supremacy. There is another way of being Christian that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with white evangelicalism and Stewart shows us the Way. He also gives us a glimpse into his writing style and process, as he continues to find his voice and hone his craft as an artist. He asks us to reclaim and reimagine spiritual virtues like rage, resilience, and remembrance—and explores how these virtues might function as a work of love against an unjust, unloving world.BioDanté Stewart is author of Shoutin’ In The Fire: An American Epistle. Named by Religion News Service as one of “Ten Up-And-Coming Faith Influencers”, he is a writer and speaker whose voice has been featured on The New York Times, The Washington Post, ESPN’s The Undefeated, Sojourners, and more. As an up and coming voice, he writes and speaks into the areas of race, religion, and politics.He received his B.A. in Sociology from Clemson University. He is currently studying at the Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, Ga. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: https://www.sophiasociety.org/black-liberationFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Kelly Lamb and Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Throughout this country’s history, the hallmarks of American democracy – opportunity, freedom, and prosperity – have been largely reserved for white people through the intentional exclusion and oppression of people of color. America’s original sin is white supremacy, born and bred into the first laws of our land and fully endorsed by the church. Am I right Southern Baptist Convention? Yesterday’s segregationists are today’s Christian Nationalists. But what is “whiteness?”If you are deconstructing your faith, odds are you are going to have to untangle yourself from white privilege and white supremacy, two hallmarks of American evangelicalism. In this intensely personal episode, Lisa Sharon Harper shares the story of her family and their battle to escape chattel slavery and what it means to her to be a descendant of slaves. She also offers practical ways you can join the work for restoration and racial equality. BioFrom Ferguson to New York, and from Germany and South Africa to Australia and Brazil, Lisa Sharon Harper leads trainings that increase clergy and community leaders’ capacity to organize people of faith toward a just world. A prolific speaker, writer and activist, Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us, a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap in our nation by designing forums and experiences that bring common understanding, common commitment and common action.Ms. Harper is the author of several books, including Evangelical Does Not Equal Republican…or Democrat (The New Press, 2008); Left Right and Christ: Evangelical Faith in Politics (Elevate, 2011); Forgive Us: Confessions of a Compromised Faith (Zondervan, 2014); and the critically acclaimed, The Very Good Gospel: How Everything Wrong can be Made Right (Waterbrook, a division of Penguin Random House, 2016). The Very Good Gospel, recognized as the “2016 Book of the Year” by Englewood Review of Books, explores God’s intent for the wholeness of all relationships in light of today’s headlines.A columnist at Sojourners Magazine and an Auburn Theological Seminary Senior Fellow, Ms. Harper has appeared on TVOne, FoxNews Online, NPR, and Al Jazeera America. Her writing has been featured in CNN Belief Blog, The National Civic Review, Sojourners, The Huffington Post, Relevant Magazine, and Essence Magazine. She writes extensively on shalom and governance, immigration reform, health care reform, poverty, racial and gender justice, climate change, and transformational civic engagement.Ms. Harper earned her Masters degree in Human Rights from Columbia University in New York City, and served as Sojourners Chief Church Engagement Officer. In this capacity, she fasted for 22 days as a core faster in 2013 with the immigration reform Fast for Families. She trained and catalyzed evangelicals in St. Louis and Baltimore to engage the 2014 push for justice in Ferguson and the 2015 healing process in Baltimore, and she educated faith leaders in South Africa to pull the levers of their new democracy toward racial equity and economic inclusion.Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/inventing-whiteness-lisa-sharon-harperFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

“Few people can teach you the Enneagram with the genuine insight, humor, and potential for real growth and change better than Suzanne Stabile, writes Father Richard Rohr. And after this incredible episode, we agree! Stabile is one of the world’s most sought-after gurus when it comes to all things Enneagram. Today, she joins us to discuss what it means to know your number, to live a balanced life within your number, as well as to recognize when you are either in excess or unhealthy in your number. She explores in detail each of the nine individual types and how each type can be manipulated and abused in unhealthy church communities. Regardless your number, everyone of us longs to be known, to be valued, and to offer our gifts and talents to the world. Suzanne helps you recognize what those gifts are by drilling down into the motivations behind each Enneagram type. She even helps you, based on your number, choose a spiritual practice to grow your soul. Even if you don’t know your Enneagram number yet, this episode will help you recognize those areas in your life where you are out of balance and teetering on pathological behavior. In this episode we discuss the reality that the Enneagram is not just a personality typing system, but is rather a tool to help you over a life-long journey of self-discovery by uncovering the traps that keep you from living fully and freely as your True Self. BioSuzanne Stabile is a speaker, teacher, and internationally recognized Enneagram master teacher who has taught thousands of people over the last thirty years. She is the author of The Path Between Us, and coauthor, with Ian Morgan Cron, of The Road Back to You. She is also the creator and host of The Enneagram Journey podcast.Along with her husband, Rev. Joseph Stabile, she is cofounder of Life in the Trinity Ministry, a nonprofit, nondenominational ministry committed to the spiritual growth and formation of adults. Their ministry home, the Micah Center, is located in Dallas, Texas. They have many audio resources available, including The Enneagram Journey curriculum. Suzanne has spoken at hundreds of colleges, churches, and conferences across America, and also teaches in the Baylor Health Care System. She has taught at Richard Rohr's Center for Action and Contemplation and has taught with Father Rohr to an international audience in Assisi, Italy. You can find Suzanne at her website Life in the Trinity Ministry as well her podcast The Enneagram Journey. Her new book The Journey Toward Wholeness is now available. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/the-enneagram-suzanne-stabileFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

There are some episodes that defy description, that cover so much ground that it is difficult to describe. This conversation with theologian, poet, activist, and historian Randy Woodley is one such episode. We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again for those in the back: evangelicalism is a dominator religion. It seeks to dominate the earth, women, black and brown bodies, those on the fringes of faith, and anything or anyone that falls outside of its white supremacist worldview, and the consequences have been deadly. Dr. Woodley points us to a wilder, freer faith rooted in our Sacred Earth and the Divine relationship we have with the planet and every living creature. In an attempt to find Shalom, Dr. Woodley dismantles dominator religion by inviting us to tap into our ancestral heritage, become one with Nature, and free ourselves from participating in systems of oppression. And just for grins, we also talk about Critical Race Theory, COVID-19, and white supremacy. This is a deep and meaningful conversation for anyone looking to decolonize their faith.Guest Bio:Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley (PhD, Asbury Theological Seminary) is recognized as a Cherokee descendent by the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. He is a teacher, poet, activist, former pastor, missiologist and historian. Woodley received his baccalaureate degree from Rockmont College in Denver. He was ordained to the ministry through the American Baptist Churches in the USA in Oklahoma after graduating with a Masters of Divinity degree from Eastern Seminary (now Palmer Seminary) in Philadelphia. Randy's PhD is in intercultural studies from Asbury Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. He currently serves as Distinguished Professor of Faith and Culture at Portland Seminary. Woodley’s books include  Decolonizing Evangelicalism: An 11:59pm Conversation, The Harmony Tree: A Story of Healing and Community, Shalom and the Community of Creation: An Indigenous Vision, and Living in Color: Embracing God’s Passion for Ethnic Diversity. He has authored numerous book chapters and contributed essays and articles in compilations such as the  Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics, Poverty and the Poor in the World ’ s Religions, Evangelic al Post-colonial Conversations, and The Global Dictionary of Theology. Professor Woodley is active in the ongoing discussions concerning new church movements, racial and ethnic diversity, peace, racism, earth justice, Indigenous spirituality, interreligious dialogue and mission. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: Show Notes Here: https://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/decolonize-your-faithhttps://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/decolonize-your-faithFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor and Kelly Rose Lamb.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

It's been said Christianity is heavy on teaching and light on praxis. You could argue the last two thousands years of Church history has been one long, and often violent, conversation about right beliefs but not right action. Thus, you can believe all the (supposedly) right things about God, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and the Bible and still be in bondage. But what if there is another way that actually leads to spiritual and personal transformation that doesn’t try to find answers to everything but rather accepts the world as it is? In our 40th episode, we sit down with former Pastor and Spiritual Director Danielle Shroyer to discuss how Buddhism intersects with her Christian tradition to produce a new way of life in a hurting world. Through daily meditation and the Eightfold Path of Buddhism, Danielle offers not just a new belief system, but an entirely new way to live a life of goodness, truth, beauty, and transformation even in the midst of incredible suffering. If you've never meditated or want to learn how, if you have always wanted to learn more about Buddhist practices, or if you still struggle with the idea of suffering and the general unsatisfactoriness of life, this conversation is for you.Guest Bio:Danielle is a spiritual director, author, speaker, and former pastor. She is the author of three books, most recently Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place. She also runs the blog Soul Ninja, where she reflects on the teachings of Buddhism as she practices them. Danielle is a graduate of Baylor University and Princeton Seminary. She is a taekwondo black belt and loves books, tea, and most nerdy things. She and her husband Dan have two teenagers and live in Dallas. You can find Danielle online at Soul Ninja where she shares her own journey into meditation while offering practical ways to begin this transformative practice. Danielle is also active on Twitter @DGShroyer and Instagram @Danielle.Shroyer. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: https://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/how-buddhism-changed-my-evangelical-mind https://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/how-buddhism-changed-my-evangelical-mind Follow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Deconstruction has become a dirty word in evangelical circles. Some people think all we want to do is burn Christianity to the ground. Others worry that the deconstruction community isn’t doing enough to shed itself from fundamentalism. We will just be honest, most days we’d rather just let evangelicalism go up in flames, purging the entire super-structure that is modern Christianity. We know that’s not the end goal of deconstruction, but it just feels easier to sit back and watch it burn. Maybe that’s why this episode was so convicting. In our first interview of Season Two, Pastor Brian Zahnd joins us to share his own deconstruction journey by taking us with him down a different road, one carved on the ancient pilgrim path of the Camino de Santiago. What he found along the way just might point us toward the future of faith; a faith centered in contemplation, mystery, and mysticism. Plus, some exciting news! This episode also introduces our new co-host, Kelly Rose Lamb. I hope you will welcome her with open arms as she joins the show! Brian Zahnd is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. Known for his theologically informed preaching and his embrace of the deep and long history of the church, Zahnd provides a forum for pastors to engage with leading theologians and is a frequent conference speaker. He is the author of several books, including Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God, A Farewell to Mars, Beauty Will Save the World, and his latest When Everything’s on Fire: Faith Forged From the Ashes. You can find him on Twitter @BrianZahnd. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/when-everything-is-on-fire-brian-zahndhttp://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/when-everything-is-on-fire-brian-zahnd Follow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor and Kelly Rose Lamb.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.