Episode SummaryAuthoritarianism is on the rise all across the world. Here in America, the leading proponents of anti-democratic ideology are evangelical Christians who have been swept up in the cult of Donald Trump. Driven by a dominator theology and good old-fashioned white supremacy, conservative Christians can be counted on as the leading supporters of dictatorial politics. As Dr. David Gushee writes in his book Defending Democracy From It’s Christian Enemies, “Our current democratic crisis reveals a need to revisit the very meaning of democracy…Concerned citizens should care about the direction of movement in their own country. Ours is trending in a bad direction.”And that trend is leading many Christians to embrace what Gushee describes as “Nazified Christianity.” Since the 1960’s, much of American public life has been moving toward greater freedoms, greater inclusivity, greater access to power, self-determination, and wealth for underrepresented populations. The Civil Rights Movement, feminist movement, sexual revolution, LGBTQIA movement, and the #METOO Movement have leveled the playing field. And who does that threaten? White, male Christians who are reacting to those new freedoms with violence and extremism. So, how do we work to not only save our democracy from it’s Christian enemies, but to awaken our friends and family who have been taken captive by the rise of totalitarianism and the despotism of the Republican Party? This scholarly, yet practical conversation provides you with the resources and tools to have transformational conversations about the politics of Jesus as well as helping to equip you with the action-steps to save democracy during this political season. Bio:Rev. Prof. Dr. David P. Gushee (PhD, Union Theological Seminary, New York) is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics at Mercer University, and Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit (“Free University”) Amsterdam, and Senior Research Fellow, International Baptist Theological Study Centre.Gushee is the elected Past-President of both the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Christian Ethics, signaling his role as one of America's leading Christian ethicists. He is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of more than 28 books and over 175 academic book chapters, journal articles, and reviews (see his full academic C.V.). His most recognized works include Kingdom Ethics, and Changing Our Mind. His other most notable works are Introducing Christian Ethics, Still Christian, After Evangelicalism, Righteous Gentiles of the Holocaust, and the forthcoming Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies. Altogether his books have sold over 100,000 copies and been translated into a dozen languages.With his works read around the world, and an active lecturing schedule on several continents, he has global impact in the field of Christian ethics. A leader in the growing post-evangelical movement, he has also put feet to his faith in several activist campaigns.David and his wife Jeanie live in Atlanta. He is a classic novel reader, world traveler, and tennis player, and awaits a call from his beloved Atlanta Braves to resume the baseball career he abandoned in college.Please follow us on social media (use the buttons below) and help us get the word out! (Also, please don’t hesitate to use any of these channels or email to contact us with any questions, concerns, or feedback.)If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/saving-democracy-from-her-christian-enemiesFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon or Substack and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyheretics or subscribe to our Substack to gain access to subscriptions and online classes in faith deconstruction! This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

OK, I'll admit it right up front, this is a heavy episode. This one feels like a therapy session processing through the anger, the rage, the bitterness, and all your past complicity in white evangelical Christianity. If you haven't noticed yet, one of the pit stops on the deconstruction road is animosity. You finally wake up to all the harmful ways evangelical Christianity has impacted your life and the lives of others and sometimes all you can feel is resentment. It's easy to get stuck here, raging against the evangelical machine. But what might it look like to fuel your anger for something good, beautiful and true? Author Marla Taviano helps us unlearn our past by learning how to heal and move forward, channeling anger into transformative love. Ultimately, how do you stay emotionally, spiritually, and mentally healthy as you process the grief of growing up evangelical? We also discuss what it means to be a real ally, how to decolonize the deconstruction space, and ways you can center marginalized voices in your daily life. BioMarla Taviano (she/her) is into: books, love, justice, globes, anti-racism, blue, rainbows, poems (and a hundred other things). Reads and writes for a living (and a life). Mom to some freaking awesome kids. Wears her heart on her t-shirts. On a mission/quest/journey to live wholefarted (not a typo). (Big fan of parentheses—and em dashes.) Connect with her on IG: @marlataviano and @whitegirllearning or marlataviano.com.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/a-reckoning-with-white-evangelicalismFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyheretics or subscribe to our Substack to gain access to subscriptions and online classes in faith deconstruction! This episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode SummaryIn the second-part of our conversation about the Divine Feminine, we look at the ramifications of believing God is a guy. Institutional Christianity has given us God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, a triune male God with “He/Him” pronouns. And this male dominated theology has created a male dominator culture that manifests itself politically, socially, sexually, religiously, and economically in pragmatism, patriotism, persecution, capitalism, greed, aggression, egoism, hierarchy, oppression, exclusion, bigotry, ignorance, and emotionally stunted men. All of which has the planet on the brink of destruction. But what if we’re wrong? What if God isn’t a guy after all? And how would seeing God in female form change the way we understand ourselves and the world around us?Rediscovering the Divine female attributes of God is one of the first steps toward our collective liberation from the dominant power structures that rule our lives. In this episode, we uncover all the ways God is referenced in female language throughout Scripture and church history. We also look at Jesus’ primordial identity as Holy Wisdom, or the Sophia of God, making the historical Jesus the personification of the Divine Feminine. Quotables“If God is male, the male is God.”“Domination of women has provided a key link, both socially and symbolically, to the domination of earth.”“The symbolic evidence of women’s invisibility in the human race is most clear perhaps in her suppression, her camouflage, her negation even in language. Women are subsumed, excised, erased by male pronouns, by male terminology, by male prayers, even by exclusively male images of God.”“There has always been a vocal minority recognizing the many pronouns for God, including “He/Him,” “She/Her,” “They/Them.”“All Language about God is metaphorical, but those metaphors matter.”“One of the most ancient metaphorical understandings and expressions of Divinity is God as womb of the world.”“How can women be made in the image of God if God cannot be imagined in female form?”“What does God do all day long? God gives birth. From all eternity God lies on a maternity bed giving birth.”“Sophia is the first of God’s works, God’s female companion in the creation of the cosmos.”“Sophia became flesh and dwelt among us.”“Just as God is our Father, so God is also our Mother.”Please follow us on social media (use the buttons below) and help us get the word out! (Also, please don’t hesitate to use any of these channels or email to contact us with any questions, concerns, or feedback.)If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/what-are-gods-pronounsFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes, and sound engineering is by Joshua Mudge (currently accepting new clients: josh.mudge09@gmail.com).

Episode SummaryHave you ever paused to wonder why it was always God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit—a trio of divine beings known only as “He” and “Him?” This should cause us to ask a basic question. Why is God so overwhelmingly referred to as a He in institutional Christianity, as well as in Judaism? Did you know that from ancient times God was first known as our Mother, and sustainer? Over the next two episodes we’re going to discuss what I believe is one of the most important spiritual conversations we’ve ever had on the show, the Divine Feminine. What might it look like to see God in female form and through female language? How would your relationship to the Divine change if you were equipped to see the other side of God? And how has knowing only God the Father warped our souls, impoverished our theology, and deadened our spirits? As Sister Joan Chittister writes, “It is precisely women’s experience of God that this world lacks. A world that does not nurture its weakest, does not know God the birthing mother. A world that does not preserve the planet, does not know God the creator. A world that does not honor the spirit of compassion, does not know God the spirit. God the lawgiver, God the judge, God the omnipotent being have consumed Western spirituality and, in the end, shriveled its heart.”I hope this episode will introduce you to the Divine Feminine, to God our Mother, and how reframing your image of God will change how you view yourself, the world, and your neighbor. BioGary Alan Taylor is the Co-Founder of The Sophia Society and Host of Holy Heretics Podcast. Gary Alan has an undergraduate degree in History from Milligan University, a Master of Arts in Holocaust Studies from East Tennessee State University, and worked on a PhD at The University of Tennessee. Gary Alan has spent his life in faith-based organizations and began deconstructing his faith about ten years ago when he was introduced to a theology of liberation and nonviolence. With his friend and colleague Melanie Mudge, Gary Alan created The Sophia Society to be a sacred space for the spiritual formation of post-evangelicals. Since then, The Sophia Society has served thousands of “exvangelicals” through it’s monthly Liminal Spaces publication, podcast, articles, online classes, and community spaces. You can plug in or simply learn more about The Sophia Society here! Gary Alan is passionate about overcoming his own religious trauma by pursuing a more mystical form of faith. Additional ReadingWoman Strength by Joan ChittisterThe Divine Feminine by Virginia Ramey MollenkotThy Queendom Come by Kyndall Rae RothausGod is a Black Woman by Christena ClevelandShe Who Is by Elizabeth A. JohnsonBeyond God the Father by Mary DalyIf you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/god-our-motherFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode SummaryWe continue our march toward the marginalized this week with another conversation with Dr. Miguel De La Torre about the future of American political identity. As a Lantinx scholar, Miguel sees a future in which American society is run by white Christian nationalist elites at the expense of everyone who is 'the other.' Much like South African Apartheid, America could become a nation controlled by a very powerful and violent minority all supported by white evangelicals. After all, it was conservative Christians who helped set up South African Apartheid in the 1948. Following these through lines of American racism and oppression, he warns of a decline in democracy and rise in political violence—but equips us with the nonviolent ethical framework to resist this bleak future. If you are a citizen of the United States, have you ever considered what it might look like to become Un-American? Have you ever considered all the ways the American Empire forces you to compromise your faith? As Christian ethicist Stanley Hauerwas once wrote, “Being a Christian is going to put you at odds with a great deal of what it means to be an American.” In this episode, we call upon listeners to consider what it might mean to remake America in the image of the God of liberation, and how do achieve that nonviolently? What role can you play in resisting this dominator form of Christianity and politics? BioDr. Miguel De La Torre is Professor of Social Ethics and Latinx Studies at the Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado.  He has served as the elected 2012 President of the Society of Christian Ethics and served as the Executive Officer for the Society of Race, Ethnicity and Religion (2012-17). Dr. De La Torre is a recognized international Fulbright scholar who has taught courses at the Cuernavaca Center for Intercultural Dialogue on Development (Mexico), Indonesian Consortium for Religious Studies (Indonesia), University of Johannesburg (South Africa), Johannes Gutenberg University (Germany). Additionally, he has lectured at Universidad Bíblica Latinoamericana (Costa Rica), The Association for Theological Education in South East Asia (Thailand) and the Council of World Mission (Mexico and Taiwan). Advocating for an ethics of place, De La Torre has taken students on immersion classes to Cuba, Guatemala, the Peruvian Amazon, and the Mexico/U.S. border to walk the migrant trails. Among multiple yearly speaking engagements, he has also been a week-long speaker at the Chautauqua Institute, and the plenary address at the Parliament of World Religions. De La Torre has received several national book awards and is a frequent speaker at national and international scholarly religious events and meetings. He also speaks at churches and nonprofit organizations on the intersection of religion with race, class,  gender, and sexuality . In 2020, the American Academy of Religion bestowed on him the Excellence in Teaching Award. The following year, 2021, the American Academy also conferred upon him the Martin E. Marty Public Understanding of Religion Award. De La Torre is the first scholar to receive the two most prestigious awards presented by his guild and the first Latinx to receive either one of them. Check out De La Torre's BLOG for additional resources and readings. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/resisting/american/apartheidFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyheretics and get access to our online class Making Sense of the Bible Post-Deconstruction! This episode was produced by The Sophia Society.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Contrary to what many assume, peace isn’t meekness in the face of evil it is the courageous and oftentimes creative task of disarmament. Active peacemaking is a way to fight against injustice without using violence. It is using the transformative force of love to resist oppression. It says that the means are the ends, that the way to peace is peace itself. “Love of enemies does not necessarily ease tensions; rather it challenges the whole system and becomes a subversive formula for true personal and national liberation,” writes liberationist theologian Gustavo Gutierrez. Therefore we shouldn’t be surprised that peacemakers like Dr. Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi appear as anything but peaceful.But what might it look like for you to live a life of nonviolent resistance to evil? How do you confront evil and injustice without becoming unjust yourself? In this episode with Holy Heretics host Gary Alan Taylor, we discuss ways to take power back from the oppressors through nonviolent, subversive action. We draw on the teachings of Jesus who provided a 'third way' beyond fight or flight that leads to an opportunity for the perpetrator to not only recognize your humanity, but repent of his oppression. For our new patrons, thank you for joining us! Thank you for providing the resources we desperately need to continue creating this sacred, subversive space. Our podcast is an act of nonviolent resistance to dominator evangelicalism. We will not be silenced. We will not be intimidated by the religious establishment. We will continue to speak loudly and proudly for the marginalized, no matter the cost. Your commitment to this work is also an act of resistance, thank you! BioGary Alan Taylor is the Co-Founder of The Sophia Society and the Host of Holy Heretics Podcast. Gary Alan grew up in conservative evangelical culture as a preacher boy and his deconstruction journey began way back as an undergraduate at Milligan College when he took a course that changed his life. Taught by Stanley Hauerwas protege Phil Kennesson, Christ and Culture planted seeds that would grow into a subversive faith decades later. Prior to his faith deconstruction, Gary Alan worked in evangelical spaces as a content creator. He has written for RedLetter Christians and Missio Alliance and has a Master of Arts degree in Holocaust Studies as well as PhD work in Colonial American History. Gary Alan and his wife Jennifer live in Monument, Colorado and attend Grace and St. Stephens Episcopal Church. Quotables“Four in ten Americans live in a household with a gun. 44% of Republicans say they own a gun.”“What might it look like to deconstruct your faith nonviolently?”“Here in America, we love our guns, and we love our God given right to blow you away.”“Even out theology is violent. We believe in a violent, wrathful God, so violence is wrapped into the DNA of what it means to be an American.”“When the United States kills it’s enemies, it’s probably a Christian who pulls the trigger.”“What I fear is being in the presence of evil and doing nothing. I fear that more than death.”“We don’t have enough money for healthcare, education and basic human services because we spend billions of dollars on war, and we call that pragmatic.”“For what the world spends on defense every 2.5 hours, smallpox was eliminated.”“We believe that violence saves.”“Can you commit an act of violence for the cause of justice?”“Is there ever a time that you could kill for the right cause?”“What if the people we think are so evil aren’t evil at all?”“Our addiction to redemptive violence is the fault of the church.”“When war is undertaken in the name of God, there can be no limit in the killing, because so much is at stake.”“Nonviolence isn’t an exception to the rule, but is at the heart of what it means to be a Christian.”“There wasn’t even a word for pacifism in the early church because to call yourself a Christian meant you lived a life of nonviolence.”“Even in death, Jesus was nonviolent.”“Jesus was nonviolent because God was nonviolent.”“Is my job causing suffering to the planet or to the poor?”“What or who am I afraid of?”“In what ways do I benefit from the empire in which I live?”“Pacifism isn’t meekness in the face of evil.”If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/the-power-of-nonviolent-resistanceFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode SummaryIn the second installment of our conversation with Natalie Drew, we move deeper into her gender transition and how it impacted her marriage, career, and spiritual journey. If you haven’t checked out Part One, go back and listen now before moving forward into this episode! We answer several questions including, can you be Christian and transgender and what might it look like to transcend the false gender binary that pervades our social and spiritual spaces? I know you will appreciate the intimacy, honesty, and bravery Natalie continues to show to her online trolls and the theobros who wish her ill. May her grace provide a way forward in your own dealings with individuals who doubt you, question, you, and try to thwart your personal and spiritual path. BioDespite what many within conservative Christian circles may claim, “Christian” and “transgender” are not mutually exclusive. Natalie is living proof of this, as she navigates life post-transition within conservative Christian circles. She, her wife Heather, and their two teenagers are recent transplants to the heart of Reformed country…west Michigan. Natalie has spent the past 13 years as an HR professional, and currently serves as an HR Manager for a Fortune 500 company in the Grand Rapids area. After 6 years as an infantry soldier in the Army, Natalie has committed her life to advancing an ethic of Christian nonviolence and fighting for the rights of trans people. She is dedicated to elbowing her way in Christian spaces to help make room for her LGBTQIA+ siblings who have historically been rejected and despised by the church.Please follow us on social media (use the buttons below) and help us get the word out! (Also, please don’t hesitate to use any of these channels or email to contact us with any questions, concerns, or feedback.)If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/transgender-and-christian-part-twoFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society. and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

CW: We discuss trauma, addiction, suicidal ideation, abuse, and other topics that may be triggering. Please listen at your own discretion.A lot of times on our show, we discuss theological matters that mostly reside in your head, but this episode is altogether very different. This conversation is personal, it’s raw, it’s painful, it’s the deeply transformative work of an individual who fought to save her own life by becoming who she always knew she was. It’s not only an episode about gender dysphoria and transition, it’s a conversation about what it means to live peacefully with yourself and the violent world around us. In many ways, Natalie Drew is one of our heroes. Here’s why.Despite what many within conservative Christian circles may claim, “Christian” and “transgender” are not mutually exclusive. Natalie is living proof of this, as she navigates life post-transition within conservative Christian circles. She, her wife Heather, and their two teenagers are recent transplants to the heart of Reformed country…west Michigan. Natalie has spent the past 13 years as an HR professional, and currently serves as an HR Manager for a Fortune 500 company in the Grand Rapids area. After 6 years as an infantry soldier in the Army, Natalie has committed her life to advancing an ethic of Christian nonviolence and fighting for the rights of trans people. She is dedicated to elbowing her way in Christian spaces to help make room for her LGBTQIA+ siblings who have historically been rejected and despised by the church.I hope her personal story of religious trauma, addiction, recovery, and transition will inspire you to live into who God fully made you to be. Especially in a day and age when transgender individuals are thrown into the culture war to chum the water of hatred and bigotry by evangelical Christians and their Republican Party goons, leading to a rise in dehumanizing tactics and strategies aimed at eliminating transgender people from society. Recent laws passed in Bible-belt states like Texas, Alabama, and Florida are making it almost impossible for transgender people to get healthcare, participate in sports, be themselves at school, and even be in an affirming relationship with their parents. And it is Christian organizations helping to write bigotry into the laws of our land. May we, like Natalie, find ways to resist such evil nonviolently, protecting our souls as we fight each day to make the world a better place for everyone. Quotables“Let me wake up a girl…let me be me! Or God, if you are not going to do that, then please kill me.”“I grew up in that world where it was King James version only where women and children were to be seen and not heard…It was a very spiritually, emotionally, and physically abusive world I grew up in both in the Church and at home.”“I didn’t have the vocabulary for it, I just knew I wasn’t like the boys in class.”“I had no safe place…My parents, I could have never taken this to them.”“I did what a lot of young trans girls do. I retreated into myself and became very violent.”“Like any good cult, you go to their schools. You plan to go to their colleges, you marry the person you meet at college and move back and repeat the cycle with your kids.”“I found the perfect job. It’s a job that let’s me be violent without the condemnation of society. And I would be held up as a hero in society. So, I joined the Army.”“There is a higher percentage of former Special Forces soldiers that are transgender than there is in the general population. It’s called the flight to hyper-masculinity.” If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/transgender-and-christianFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

CW: Adult Language.Christians were never meant to be normal, we've always been "holy troublemakers" who do not accept the world as it is but who insist on the world becoming the way God wants it to be. In the words of our friends at The Center for Prophetic Imagination, “A world where all walls of alienation are torn down as we live justly with one another.” From the very beginning, Jesus called us to be a beloved community of resistance to the brutal normalcy of a world dominated by the powers and principalities of darkness. Often, that darkness comes to us cloaked in the status quo, in the normative ideology of white, cis gender, patriarchal ideology. But racism, transphobia, homophobia, economic injustice, violence, patriarchy, and white supremacy are only normal in a world dominated by oppression. In this prophetic episode, we talk with Ashe Van Steenwyk about what it might look like for you and I to "confront not only the institutions and systems and structures that control and constrain our material lives, but also the myths, beliefs, and ideas that shape and bind our imaginations." And what better way to do that than to embody the radical, subversive way of Jesus who came to upend life as we know it.Some of the questions we seek to answer in this episode include: What do we mean when we say Jesus was queer?How do we discern what is real? How do we push back against injustice without losing our souls? How do we not only resist evil, but redeem evil? What does it look like to carve out new possibilities in a world of forced conformity? What if everything we call 'normal' is really just evil in disguise? What if what we believe to be profane is actually holy and what we have been told is orthodoxy is just a set of lies created to keep us in line? How do we resist dominance and power? And where have even liberal and progressive Christians been captivated by oppressive systems and structures? BioM. Ashe (she/they) is the co-founder of the Center for Prophetic Imagination. She is a writer, teacher, organizer, and spiritual director. For nearly 15 years, she has sown seeds of subversive spirituality throughout North America. Ashe is the author of That Holy Anarchist, unKingdom, and A Wolf at the Gate. You can find out more about Ashe here. The Center for Prophetic Imagination works to subvert the existing social order through deep discernment culminating with creative action. Check out their online resources and online classes to learn more about what it means to be a holy troublemaker in our world. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/queer-jesusFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode SummaryBarbara Brown Taylor is who you want to be when you grow up. Her life is a legacy of wisdom and wonder, walking the long road toward becoming fully human. In this intimate conversation that is more memoir than interview, she looks back on a long pilgrimage of faith while sharing some of the secrets she’s found along the way. As she reminds us, “This is not the life I planned or the life I recommend to others. But it is the life that has turned out to be mine.” Along the way she shares what suffering and pain have taught her, and how life isn’t so much about eliminating the bad but finding a balance between light and darkness, despair and hope. Together, we explore what it means to slow down and listen to your life, to embrace your humanity as you strive for the Divine. As poet Mary Oliver wrote, “To live in this world you must be able to do three things. To love what is mortal; to hold it against your bones knowing your own life depends on it; and, when the time comes to let it go, to let it go.” I hope you will take the time to listen to your life, to see if for all the beauty and agony it brings as you walk this long pilgrimage toward becoming fully human, fully divine. BioBarbara Brown Taylor is An American Episcopal priest, professor, and New York Times bestselling author who has dedicated her life to the pursuit of becoming fully human. Her most beloved works include An Altar in the World, Learning to Walk in the Dark, and Holy Envy: Finding God in the Faith of Others. She completed her undergraduate work at Emory University and went on to study at Yale Divinity School where she graduated in 1976. In 1996, she was named one of the twelve "most effective" preachers in the English-speaking world by Baylor University. She was awarded the 1998 Emory Medal by the Emory Alumni Association of Emory University for her distinguished achievement in education. She has been an Avon lady, a cocktail waitress, a horseback riding instructor, and a parish minister, but her favorite job was teaching world religions at Piedmont College for twenty years before putting the chalk down in 2017. She now divides her time between writing, speaking, and caring for the land on which she lives. Barbara and her husband Ed tend a small farm in the foothills of the Appalachians.Quotables“I was raised by parents who took me to libraries instead of churches.”“It took teaching world religions to realize Christianity was probably the most diverse, global tradition. And there are hundreds if not thousands of ways of being Christian.”“It’s a wide, wide Christian world and I still identify that way…I’m the kind of Christian who will never be fully cooked.”“I’m clearly a person who believes what we most have in common is our humanity, not our religion.”“Jesus never told me to love my religion…If given the choice between loving my religion and loving my neighbor, I choose the neighbor.”“If we are made just a little lower than the Angels and made in the image of the Divine, it is quite something to be human.”“Both in Christian life and life universally, I keep meeting people who don’t feel fully equipped yet to live their lives.” “If I’m going to love my neighbor, it is extremely important to ditch my stereotypes.”“We do a lot of judging one another by our yard signs, and I am so weary of that dichotomy.”“There was a time when my writing about Nature earned me a kind of outsider status of being pagan or pantheist.”“For the first time I began to see all the people my beloved tradition left out.”“Outsider status really ended up being like pilgrim status.”“As a mainline Episcopalian, what could be further from where most evangelicals started.”“I don’t speak of the Christ, but I’m happy to talk about Jesus.”“I do believe the spirit of God lives in ALL that God has made.” “Darkness is the way of unknowing…It’s the way you set your feet on when you don’t know where you are going.”“You shed a lot of beliefs along the way as you acquire wisdom and experience and new friends.”“What darkness has taught me is that it is fine to slow down enough in the dark to feel my way instead of thinking my way forward.”“Suffering is not a spiritual practice I would choose, but it seems unavoidable.”“I think the hardest thing about suffering is the idea that we are alone in it.”“It’s really helpful for people to look in their folders marked darkness and see what is in there and interrogate what is in there.”“There are a lot of things we wrestle with out of the public eye that we acquire the wisdom to speak about it IN the public eye.”“I think you just unearthed my primary faith statement which is, ‘I choose to believe the universe is for me and not against me.’”“I do wake up curious every day of my life, and I wake up attentive and with wonder.”“The time ahead is so much shorter than the time behind, so it’s time to get serious about things.”“I think the Benedictines said every day keep your death before you. Not to make you a grim reaper but to make you aware of the preciousness of what you have.”If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and a review 🙏Show notes: http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/barbara-brown-taylor-becoming-humanFollow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyhereticsAdvertising inquiries: podcast@sophiasociety.orgSupport our work on Patreon and get early access to episodes! https://www.patreon.com/holyhereticsThis episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor.  Music is by Faith in Foxholes.