Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Heather Hansman is a freelance writer and editor whose work explores the intersection of science, adventure, and culture. Her new book Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West should be required reading for everyone who enjoys this podcast—it strikes the perfect balance of being entertaining and educational while examining all sides of the many issues facing the West's water supply. There are few topics in the West as divisive and emotional as water, and in her book, Heather provides a balanced overview of all the issues, delving deep into the substance of water-related arguments, without crossing over into the mind-numbing jargon that defines most water-related writing. The book follows Heather's 730-mile float down the length of the Green River, starting at the base of Wyoming's Wind River mountains and ending at the confluence of the Green and Colorado Rivers in Utah. Along the way, she meets with a wide range of western water stakeholders—ranchers, farmers, river guides, government employees, scientists, conservationists, and more—and digs into their sometimes competing interests fighting for their shares of water in the West. But the book is far from an academic examination of water law—Heather paddled two-thirds of the river completely alone, so there is also a compelling adventure narrative that runs throughout the book. To understand most of the challenges facing the West, you need to understand water, and this episode is a perfect place to start. Heather and I start our conversation by laying out some of the basics around water—terminology that you may have heard thrown around but never truly understood. She explains how water in the West is a property right separate from land, and she explains some of the common language used when discussing water. We chat about why the Colorado River is over-allocated, and how transbasin diversions have transformed much of the West into a very large and complex plumbing system. For the second half of the conversation, we discuss Heather's professional path as a writer, journalist, and former river guide. We talk about why she moved west, her first gig as a professional writer, and some of the tricks of the trade she uses to force herself to write. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and favorite locations in the West. As a guy who spends much of my day working with water and water rights, I can't thank Heather enough for writing this book. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! https://www.heatherhansman.com More episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/heather-hansman/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:15 - Events leading to writing the book 7:30 - Overview of the river trip 11:00 - Women pursuing adventure for adventure's sake 15:00 - Water as a private property right 16:30 - What does “over-allocation” mean? 19:20 - How do we overcome water shortages? 20:30 - Transbasin diversions and the West’s plumbing system 23:00 - Ins-and-outs of dams 26:00 - Importance of being open-minded to all sides of issues in the West 29:40 - “Water flows uphill towards money” 32:00 - True value of water 33:45 - Potential water crisis 35:00 - Reasons for optimism 39:10 - Early years of river guiding 42:30 - Pursuing a career in journalism 44:30 - Benefits of journalism grad school 45:45 - Process of writing and writing the book 48:00 - Mentors 50:50 - Becoming a full-time writer 52:15 - Favorite books 56:30 - Favorite films 57:30 - Scariest event on the Green River trip 1:02:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:05:00 - Request of the podcast listeners 1:06:30 - Connect with Heather online

If you're a regular Mountain & Prairie listener, then you are undoubtedly familiar with best-selling author David Gessner. He has written several of my all-favorite books, most notably "All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West." He was also a past guest on this podcast almost exactly a year ago—a conversation that continues to receive excellent feedback and ranks as one of my most downloaded episodes. Between his writing, teaching, chairing the Creative Writing department at University of North Carolina Wilmington, and his role as a committed family man, David is a busy guy—so I greatly appreciate his sitting down to record a second episode. We caught up during his annual trip to Colorado and covered a wide range of fascinating topics, all presented with his signature style of deeply considered insightfulness balanced with a hilarious sense of humor. We chatted about his ongoing work on his new book about public lands and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as a recent research trip in which he flew in a Cessna from Colorado to northwest Montana and many places in between. We discussed his thoughts on Theodore Roosevelt, and how his opinions of the man have evolved throughout this book project. David shares more insights into his writing process and how endurance and team sports have helped build his discipline and work ethic as an author. We spend a good amount of time discussing his book "Ultimate Glory," digging into the mindset that allowed David to pursue the sport of Ultimate Frisbee—and writing—with laser-focused obsession. We finish up by chatting about some of the best books he's read in the past year, as well as one relatively unknown author that everyone who loves the West should read. This episode will obviously be of great interest to people who love the West, but I highly recommend it to anyone who is focused on a creative pursuit—writing, painting, poetry, sculpture, you name it. Thanks to his decades of daily grinding and obsession, David is a shining example of the discipline and commitment required to be a professional artist, and he's damn good at explaining it in a way that really sinks in. If you haven't already, check out my first conversation with David as well—there's a link in the episode notes. But right now, enjoy this enlightening and hilarious conversation with David Gessner. Episode Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner-2/ David Gessner, Part 1: https://mountainandprairie.com/david-gessner/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 - The importance of Boulder, Colorado in David’s life and work 9:00 - Endurance feats as a metaphor for writing 11:00 - Importance of having massive goals 12:45 - Importance of ambition 15:00 - Current book project and trip to the West 18:45 - Recent flight around the West 20:00 - Examining TR in a modern context 22:20 - Reluctance to become an activist 25:50 - Changing perspectives on TR 30:00 - Political cartooning 32:00 - David on taking feedback from editors and others 35:15 - Importance of constraints in writing and life 39:50 - Arête 42:15 - Finding camaraderie outside of team sports 46:50 - Teaching the writing mindset 50:50 - Best books David read this past year 53:45 - Lesser known authors worth reading

Mike Phillips is the Director of the Turner Endangered Species Fund (“TESF”), an organization that he co-founded in 1997 with Ted Turner. Mike is also a Montana state senator representing District 31, which encompasses parts of his hometown of Bozeman and the surrounding area. In his work as an ecologist, Mike has spent much of his career studying and implementing the reintroduction of wolves throughout the United States. And in both science and politics, he’s never shied away from taking vocal leadership roles involving a wide range of important issues in southwest Montana and beyond. Mike is very well known for his work with gray wolves in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, and also for his efforts to reintroduce the species into western Colorado. But as you’ll hear in our conversation, wolves are just a small part of his work-- his overarching interest is the persistence of many imperiled species, with a particular emphasis on private land’s role in the recovery efforts. Whether considering the fate of monarch butterflies, cutthroat trout, or gray wolves, Mike’s approach is the same-- an action-oriented, science-backed strategy toward conserving biological diversity. No matter where you stand on the issue of gray wolf reintroduction, I encourage you to give this conversation with Mike a very close listen. If you’re like me, you’ll be struck not only by his passion for ecology but by his deep reliance on non-emotional, quantitative scientific data. You’ll also notice his insatiable curiosity and his willingness to change his when presented with compelling new information. And finally, I think you’ll be impressed by his ability to discuss controversial topics such as wolves or politics in a respectful, considered tone that welcomes conversation and input from all sides of the issues. I can’t thank Mike enough for taking the time out of his busy schedule to chat. This is an important conversation that will make you think, and Mike’s enthusiasm will likely motivate you to dedicate more of your time to a cause that is important to you. https://mountainandprairie.com/mike-phillips/ http://tesf.org TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:30 - Beginnings of the Turner Endangered Species Fund 9:30 - Mike’s background in ecology 14:00 - TESF success stories 17:30 - Wolf recovery in Colorado 24:30 - Mike addresses the counterarguments to wolf recovery 35:00 - Mike’s ability to not shy away from conflict—in ecology and politics 39:30 - Decision to enter into politics 43:30 - Importance of being mission and service oriented 44:30 - Lessons learned from baseball 47:30 - Importance of being able to “see around the next corner” 48:30 - Private land’s role in conservation 53:30 - Favorite books 56:00 - Favorite films 58:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:00:00 - Request of the listeners

James Decker is a farmer, attorney, and the Mayor of Stamford, TX, a tight-knit agricultural community located about 45 minutes north of Abilene. James grew up in Stamford, left for college and law school, but immediately returned home to begin his career-- his love of his hometown and desire to contribute to its success far outweighed any material success that could result from practicing law in a big city. With his service-oriented mindset and natural leadership abilities, James worked his way up from city council to Mayor, all while working as an attorney and growing his family. Like so many devoted small-town mayors, James is driven by a deep desire to see his community thrive, despite the many forces that seem to be conspiring against small-town America. He approaches local politics with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and he’s not afraid to seek out new ideas from a variety of sometimes-unexpected sources. His weekly essays are worth a read whether you live in Stamford or not-- he explores subjects ranging from the nuts and bolts of economic development to the writings of Wendell Berry to quotations from Theodore Roosevelt. James is a shining example of the positive impact that one passionate person can have when he or she decides to lead with enthusiasm, optimism, and old-fashioned hard work. We covered a lot in our conversation, starting with his upbringing in Stamford and some of the history of the town. We talk about how he chose to return to Stamford after law school, despite having plenty of other opportunities elsewhere. We discuss the challenges facing rural America and how he chooses to approach economic development with an aggressive, proactive posture. We also talk about his mentors and heroes, and how his love of history and biographies inform his leadership. We obviously talk a lot about Wendell Berry and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as his favorite books and our shared love of the greatest movie of all time, Road House. The West is full of many small agricultural towns, and many of those communities share the same opportunities and challenges facing Stamford. I think you’ll be inspired by this episode, and be sure to check the notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy! https://mountainandprairie.com/james-decker/ https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:15 - How James describes his work 5:00 - Stamford, Texas described 7:00 - Family history 8:30 - Growing up in Stamford 9:30 - Choice to return to Stamford 15:30 - Local heroes and mentors 18:00 - What creates community pride? 22:30 - James’s weekly essays 26:00 - Decision to run for mayor 28:00 - Biggest surprise of being mayor 31:30 - Biggest challenge facing Stamford 35:30 - Economic opportunities in small towns 39:45 - Sources of inspirations, Wendell Berry and TR 45:15 - Seeking out different opinions 47:00 - National and local politics 51:45 - How kids have changed James’s perspective 57:00 - Importance of aggression 1:00:00 - Best Texas history books 1:02:30 - Favorite books 1:08:50 - Favorite films 11:11:30 - Hobbies away from work 1:13:30 - Favorite location in the West 1:15:30 - Best advice ever received 1:16:30 - Request of the listeners 1:18:00 - Connect with James

If you love the West and you love art, then you are likely already a fan of Logan Maxwell Hagege. He is a renowned painter whose depictions of the people and landscapes of the West have won him acclaim around the globe. His work is as stunning as it is unique, and when you see one of Logan’s pieces, there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind as to exactly who painted it. He uses bold colors and striking composition to create a style that is entirely his own-- a style that continues to evolve, even after all of his success. Logan was born and raised in California, and he has been an obsessive artist for as long as he can remember. Whether drawing, playing music, surfing, or painting, Logan has always gone “all in” on his creative pursuits. And as you’ll hear, Logan’s tendency towards obsession is fueled by a tireless work ethic and deep commitment to continuing to grow as an artist-- he is always pushing himself and refuses to rest on his laurels. That’s not to say that Logan doesn’t suffer from artistic blocks from time to time. But when he does, rather than wallow, he’s developed hard-nosed, time-tested methods of summoning creativity and continuing to push forward. I’ve been a fan of Logan’s for many years, so I was thrilled to get the opportunity to chat with him. We covered a lot, including his childhood creative obsessions and how his parents nurtured his artistic streak. We talk about his formal art education, and how he made the jump from art student to professional artist. Logan describes the evolution of his work, and how his early paintings are almost unrecognizable when compared to his current style. We chat about how he maintains focus after so many years of professional art, and he describes specific ways that he pushes himself to continue to evolve as an artist. He explains how he knows when a painting is finished, and how having a son has changed his routine and outlook. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he’s ever received. There’s a ton of useful information in this episode so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything. Enjoy! http://loganhagege.com https://mountainandprairie.com/logan-hagege/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:00 - How Logan describes his work 6:30 - Logan’s childhood artistic endeavors 8:15 - Art education 10:00 - Transition from art school to professional artist 12:15 - Old work compared to new work 15:00 - Transition to a new style of painting 16:45 - Source of Logan’s independence 19:15 - Importance of work ethic 20:30 - How he keeps the artistic motivation alive 21:20 - When the southwest became a focus 23:15 - Logan’s daily creative schedule 25:00 - How parenthood affected Logan’s outlook 26:30 - Logan’s studio spaces 28:00 - The inspiration for Logan’s works 29:45 - How to know when a painting is done 32:00 - Thoughts on looking at others’ artwork 35:00 - What Logan listens to while painting 36:30 - The business of art 38:35 - Mentors and heroes 41:00 - Books on creativity 42:30 - Other non-art activities 46:30 - Favorite books 48:30 - Daily rituals and getting to work 51:00 - More favorite books 52:00 - Favorite films 54:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 58:45 - Best advice ever received 1:03:30 - Request of the listeners

Mary Rondepierre is a fourth-generation Montanan, avid sportswoman, and a public lands advocate who has explored our nation’s wild places from coast to coast. She is also the Marketing and Experiences Manager at Filson, one of the most renowned and respected outdoor apparel brands anywhere. Currently based in Seattle, Mary has managed to combine her personal and professional passions into an exciting and rewarding career that melds together high-performance business with conservation and time in wide-open spaces. As a child, Mary grew up in a household that respected the outdoors and valued rich experiences over accumulating endless amounts of “stuff.” Her father worked as a commercial fisherman and logger, wearing-- you guessed it-- Filson gear to his jobs in the often-brutal environments of Alaska and the West. Mary headed to Oregon State for college, and soon after graduation entered the apparel business, eventually landing at Filson. Since then, she’s worn many hats at the company and now works closely with Filson’s partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, helping to produce their “Campfire Stories” events around the country. If you’re like me, love the outdoors, and own a ridiculously large stash of gear, odds are you’ve dreamed about working at a well-known outdoor apparel company. Mary’s career serves as an excellent case study for anyone interested in pursuing this path, and she reveals how she managed to land such a dream job. We talk about her education and early career, as well as her decision to work retail at Filson to “get her foot in the door.” We discuss the critical lessons she learned from working on the sales floor, and how those retail experiences inform and enhance her current role at Filson. We chat about an epic road trip she took with her husband in which they visited public lands from coast to coast, and we talk about how her upbringing in rural Montana instilled a deep love and respect of public lands. As usual, we discuss favorite books, places in the West, and the best advice she’s ever received. Enjoy! https://mountainandprairie.com/mary-rondepierre/ https://mountainandprairie.com/support/ https://mountainandprairie.com/bozeman/ TOPICS COVERED: 4:30 - How Mary describes her work 6:30 - History of Filson 9:40 - Holding high standards 11:45 - Outdoor apparel marketing 13:30 - Partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers 18:10 - How Mary began working in outdoor apparel 19:00 - Mary’s dad’s secret camps! 20:00 - Family history in Montana 22:55 - Childhood outdoor adventures 24:00 - Decision to leave Montana 26:30 - First job out of college 28:30 - First job at Filson 30:10 - Experience working retail 33:30 - Filson’s “Unfailing Goods” 35:30 - Humility gained from retail 38:00 - Advice to recent college grads 41:00 - Thoughts on reading business books versus real-world experience 44:10 - Epic public lands roadtrip 49:30 - Proposal story! 52:00 - Lessons learned from the road trip 55:00 - Favorite spots in the PNW 59:30 - Awesome TR side conversation 1:01:45 - Mentors 1:04:30 - Favorite books 1:09:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:12:45 - Favorite location in the West 1:13:30 - Best advice ever received 1:14:30 - Request of the listeners 1:16:00 - Connect with Mary

Bryce Andrews is a Montana-based rancher, conservationist, and author whose unique set of experiences gives him uncommon insights into the relationship between humans and carnivores in the West. Having worked as a ranch hand, ranch manager, and ranch owner, Bryce understands agriculture and the myriad of challenges faced by producers. As Field Director at the non-profit People and Carnivores, he has gained first-hand knowledge of the predicaments facing large predators in the Rockies. And as an author, he has researched and written extensively about all sides of the issue-- most notably in his books “Badluck Way” and his new book “Down from the Mountain,” which was published earlier this week. Bryce grew up in Seattle, far removed from ranching, farming, and the arid ruggedness of the Rocky Mountain West. But soon after college, he landed an entry-level job at the 20,000-acre Sun Ranch, located in Montana’s spectacular Upper Madison River Valley. On the Sun Ranch, Bryce received a trial-by-fire education in the sometimes-problematic relationship between agriculture and wild animals, a relationship he has spent much of his professional career exploring. The latest manifestation of this exploration is “Down from the Mountain,” an educational, entertaining, and sometimes-heartbreaking book that explores specific interactions between grizzly bears and farms in Montana’s Mission Valley. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of this book and cannot recommend it enough. If you are familiar with this podcast and the topics that I love to discuss, then you know that Bryce is a perfect guest. He’s smart, funny, insightful, and has a real gift for explaining complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging way. We talked a lot about “Down from the Mountain,” discussing grizzlies, farming, and the unique location and topography of the Mission Valley. We talk about Bryce’s upbringing in Seattle, and what drove him to explore the West after college. We discuss his work with People and Carnivores, and how his background in agriculture helps him to span the divide between his organization and the farming and ranching communities. Bryce also explains his writing and research process and offers some excellent advice for aspiring authors. And as usual, we spend a lot of time discussing books, authors, and his most powerful outdoor experience. I encourage you to find a copy of “Down from the Mountain” and give it a read. You will not be disappointed. Episode Notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/bryce-andrews/ TOPICS DISCUSSED 4:00 - Bryce describes his work 5:20 - How Bryce started ranching 6:30 - First experiences ranching 7:20 - Heading to the Rockies after college 9:00 - Getting a hand-hold in ranching 10:30 - Culture shock of the West 13:50 - First encounter with carnivores 16:30 - Primal thrill of wildlife encounters 17:30 - Work with People and Carnivores 20:00 - Finding common ground in the carnivore controversies 25:00 - “Down from the Mountain” 29:00 - Mission Valley explained 34:00 - Similarities between humans and grizzlies 37:30 - Unexpected tension of bears in a cornfield 41:20 - Bryce’s history as a writer 42:50 - Favorite/important writers 46:30 - Bryce’s relationship with writing 50:00 - Writing, the flow state, and fear 52:00 - Intense life events versus the boring “real world” 56:15 - Advice for aspiring writers 59:45 - Favorite books about the West 1:01:50 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:03:30 - Request of the listeners 1:05:30 - Connect with Bryce

Jessica Lewis is a Montana-based metalsmith who is best known for the beautifully unique jewelry she creates for her online shop, Ruby and Revolver. She is also the mother of a two-year-old daughter, who she is raising with her husband in the home they constructed with their own hands in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley. Thanks to her tireless work ethic and disciplined creativity, Jessica has built an authentic and full life around the things she loves most-- her family, her craft, and Western landscapes. Montana’s rugged mountains and valleys have been a part of Jessica’s life for as long as she can remember, and even though she has traveled widely, she has always returned to Big Sky Country. The Rocky Mountain landscapes inform many aspects of her work, as does her ethic of “doing more with less.” By American standards, she and her family embrace a purposefully minimalist lifestyle which allows Jessica to focus on quality over quantity in both her professional and personal endeavors. In our world of constant connectivity and endless distraction, I’m truly inspired by Jessica’s genuine and mindful approach toward living a simple yet rich and meaningful life. Jessica was kind enough to take a break from her numerous projects for this fun conversation about her life, creative process, and love of Montana. We chatted about how she got her start making jewelry and how the impending birth of her daughter inspired her to pursue art full time. We talked about how she began making jewelry with the simplest of tools, and how the desire for fancy equipment can distract from the act of making art. We talk a lot about parenthood, and Jessica explains how becoming a mother shifted her perspectives on work and life. We discuss our shared appreciation for Stoic philosophy, and how several specific books have impacted Jessica’s creativity. We talk about the importance of international travel and wisdom gained from spending time abroad. And as usual, we discuss favorite books about the West, the best advice she’s ever received, and several of her unexpected hobbies. I really loved the conversation and know you will too. Thanks again to Jessica for taking the time to chat. Enjoy! https://mountainandprairie.com/jessica-lewis/ https://rubyandrevolver.com https://mountainandprairie.com/support/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:40 - How Jessica describes her work 5:00 - Jessica’s jewelry described 7:00 - Embracing the rawness of her work 8:50 - Materials used for her jewelry 10:30 - Why she was drawn to metalworking 12:15 - Starting out with simple tools 14:30 - Importance of her studio 17:00 - Making the leap into full-time art 19:45 - The bravery to pursue artistic dreams 22:50 - How kids change parents’ perspectives 23:45 - Creative mentors and influences 25:50 - Books that have influenced creativity 29:30 - Daily routines 30:55 - Importance of exercise 31:50 - Living in the Bitterroot Valley 32:45 - Growing up in Montana 35:30 - International travels 36:45 - Lessons learned from international travel 39:00 - “Doing more with less" 42:00 - Ed’s weird story about accumulating junk 44:00 - More on parenthood and its effects 46:10 - Advice to new parents 48:30 - Current project of building a new house by hand 52:00 - Jessica’s healthy relationship with technology 57:15 - Advice to aspiring creatives 59:50 - Favorite books 1:03:25 - Favorite films 1:05:30 - Surprising activities 1:07:00 - Favorite location in the West 1:08:30 - Best advice received 1:10:30 - Request of the listeners 1:11:50 - Connect with Jessica online

Len Necefer is a scholar, entrepreneur, and outdoor adventurer who is also a proud member of the Navajo Nation. Academically, Len holds a Ph.D. in engineering and public policy, and he is currently a professor of both Indian Studies and public policy at the University of Arizona. In business, he’s the CEO of NativesOutdoors, a cutting-edge outdoor apparel company that uses its platform to advocate for the cultural empowerment indigenous people. And to top it all off, Len is a committed mountaineer, backcountry skier, and rock climber, having ticked off countless impressive adventures throughout the West. It is clear that Len has accomplished a lot personally, but what is even more impressive is the positive ripple effect his work is having on the outdoor industry. By melding his professional expertise, personal interests, and cultural heritage, he has become one of the leading voices advocating for Native American representation in outdoor recreation and conservation. His work and personal story have been featured in big-time publications such as Outside and Alpinist, and he’s recently delved into filmmaking with his newest film Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee. As you’ll hear, Len has a unique ability to educate and inspire, and his message is striking a chord with a large, engaged audience. As you’d expect from a guy as multifaceted as Len, he offers up a wealth of knowledge in our conversation. We talked about his Navajo heritage and discussed the unique history and culture of the Navajo tribe. We chatted about his recent film and discussed the of impact oil and gas development on Native populations in areas such as Bears Ears and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We chatted about the need for mutual respect between the outdoor industry and indigenous groups, and Len explains two fascinating case studies around rock climbing on sacred Native lands. He gives an excellent overview of his company NativesOutdoors, and he explains why he chose to start a business instead of a non-profit. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he ever received. Thanks so much to Len for carving out time to chat. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! http://mountainandprairie.com/len-necefer/ https://www.natives-outdoors.org http://mountainandprairie.com/support/ TOPICS DISCUSSED: 4:10 - How Len describes his work 6:15 - Len’s early years 7:00 - Navajo background 9:00 - History of the Navajo tribe 12:00 - Len’s new film: "Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee” 16:15 - Oil and gas development’s impact on humans 19:40 - Historic native management of landscapes 22:15 - Preservation of people as new phase of conservation 27:15 - NativesOutdoors 33:00 - For-profit versus non-profit 34:00 - Native Americans and the outdoor industry 38:30 - Climbing Case Studies: Devil’s Tower versus Bears Ears 43:00 - How does he accomplish so much? 45:00 - Len’s work ethic 48:15 - Best books about Native American culture 50:45 - Favorite books about the West 52:00 - Favorite films 53:30 - Most powerful outdoor experience 56:15 - Favorite locations in the West 57:00 - Best advice ever received 58:30 - Request of the listeners 59:15 - Connect with Len

Chris Dombrowski is an author, poet, and fishing guide who lives and works in Missoula, Montana. As a writer, Chris is probably best known for his book "Body of Water: A Sage, a Seeker, and the World's Most Elusive Fish," which is one of the best books I’ve read in years. He has also published several collections of poetry, and his newest volume titled "Ragged Anthem" will be released this week. When you merge Chris’s decades of experience in the outdoors with his phenomenal skills as a wordsmith and creative, the end product is some of the most engaging writing that any outdoor lover could ever hope to read. Chris grew up in Michigan and was always drawn to fishing, hunting, and outdoor adventure. During high school, his favorite English teacher gave him a copy of "A River Runs Through It"—he devoured the book in a day and from that point forward he knew he wanted to be a professional writer living in the American West. Over the following years, he began fish guiding in Montana, attended graduate school in Missoula, and built a solid career as a working writer and poet. Along the way, he formed friendships with such notable western writers as Jim Harrison and David James Duncan, and he established his nonprofit writing workshop, the Beargrass Writing Retreat. If you are interested in creativity, writing, or the writing process, then you will absolutely love this episode with Chris. We discuss that fateful day when he read "A River Runs Through It" and exactly how that moment changed his life. We discuss his work as a teacher and a guide, and how those skills inform his writing. We talk about his writing process and his writing studio, the importance of creating art with a disciplined, workman-like approach, and how he deals with any self-doubt that may come with publishing his work. We chat in depth about poetry, and Chris offers some great advice for poetry novices like me who want to better understand the art form. We talk about specific writers Chris particularly admires, including John McFee, Thomas McGuane, David James Duncan, Jim Harrison, and more. He offers a ton of great book recommendations, discusses his favorite rivers in Montana, and shares some excellent words of wisdom to people who love the West. Thanks again to Chris for this fun conversation—I hope you enjoy it! http://mountainandprairie.com/chris-dombrowski/ https://www.cdombrowski.com TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:00 - How Chris describes his work 6:30 - Story behind "Body of Water" 13:00 - How writing poetry helps his nonfiction work 17:00 - Structuring nonfiction like McPhee 19:00 - Experience teaching 21:00 - Reading seriously 23:15 - Teaching as a complement to writing 25:30 - Early experiences in Montana 27:00 - First big trip to the Rockies 27:30 - First time reading "A River Runs Through It" 29:00 - Importance of fishing 31:00 - Importance of passion in work 34:30 - Chris’s writing process 38:00 - Importance of having a writing studio 44:00 - Struggle of staying on task 48:30 - Dealing with self-doubt 54:30 - How to read poetry 1:00:30 - Lessons learned from Jim Harrison 1:05:00 - Background on "Ragged Anthem” 1:08:30 - In-depth conversation on podcasts 1:12:00 - Favorite books about the West 1:19:00 - Favorite rivers in the West 1:21:00 - Words of wisdom 1:25:15 - Connect with Chris