Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Jason Gardner is a retired Navy SEAL who now works as a top-level leadership instructor with Echelon Front. Over his thirty-year career in the SEAL teams, he served in combat operations in Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, later becoming Command Master Chief of SEAL Team Five and Training Detachment. Since retiring from the Navy, Jason has worked with hundreds of organizations as a leadership instructor and strategic advisor, helping teams apply high-stakes leadership principles to business and life. He now lives in a remote corner of northeastern Washington with his wife, Iris, and their two children, where he spends his time working on their homestead and staying closely connected to the land. This is Jason's second time on the podcast, and I'd strongly recommend going back and listening to our first conversation from 2021, along with the episode I recorded with Iris. Those earlier interviews dig deeper into Jason's career, his transition out of the military, and the longer arc of their family's journey—context that adds real depth to what we talk about here. This conversation unfolds in two parts. The first half hour or so is a firsthand account of the Hope Fire, a fast-moving wildfire that came dangerously close to destroying Jason and Iris's property and home last summer. Jason walks through the experience in detail—what it's like to prepare for evacuation, to work through exhaustion and uncertainty, and to rely on firefighters, neighbors, and community when the stakes are painfully real. In the second part, we widen the lens. Jason reflects on the lessons that emerged from the fire—about leadership, humility, and responsibility—and connects them to his own personal evolution over the last several years. We talk about PTSD, quitting drinking, the role psychedelic-assisted therapy played in his healing, and how practices like mindfulness, curiosity, kindness, and gratitude have reshaped how he approaches both life and leadership. It's an honest, grounded conversation about resilience, growth, and what it actually means to lead… starting with yourself. As always, be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, with timestamps for everything. There are also links to all of the books and resources that Jason mentions. --- Jason Gardner Jason on Instagram Echelon Front Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/jason-gardner-2/ --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! Mountain & Prairie is listener-supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: WILDFIRE 7:01 – Intro, Jason's brush with a wildfire 11:45 – Fire jumping ridgelines 14:05 – Enter USAA 16:36 – Community power 20:34 – Enter the brush hog 25:26 – Day three mental state 31:53 – A big damn deal 35:09 – A sense of deep pride LESSONS 40:59 – Applying on-the-line lessons to the business world 45:20 – The most important leadership trait 50:47 – Challenge coins 55:05 – A changed perspective 1:01:24 – Dealing with cockiness 1:05:30 – Jason's mental health journey 1:11:43 – Quitting drinking 1:19:52 – Self-reflection 1:21:34 – Echelon Front Muster 1:27:06 – Book recs and wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Todd Ulizio is the co-owner of Two Bear Farm, an organic vegetable farm in Whitefish, Montana, that's quietly become a cornerstone of the Flathead Valley's local food community. Alongside his wife Rebecca, Todd has spent nearly two decades growing food, building soil, and figuring out how to make a small, values-driven farm work in a world that doesn't always make it easy. Todd's path to farming was anything but direct. He grew up in Connecticut and followed a traditional educational and career path, eventually becoming an accountant at a prestigious Big 6 Firm. Experiencing success but not fulfillment, he walked away from the business world to study wildlife biology and worked on projects ranging from brown bears in Alaska to wolverines in Montana. Over time, he began to see a common thread: most of the problems facing wildlife are really problems about how humans use land—and food, he realized, is where people interact with land every single day. In this conversation, Todd and I talk about that winding path—from accounting to wildlife biology to farming—and what it's taught him about work, burnout, stewardship, and attention. We get into the realities of small-scale farming, the pressures of building a business with your spouse, the health wake-up call that forced him to rethink everything, and the quieter, more grounded philosophy that now shapes his life and work. This is a thoughtful, honest conversation about choosing a meaningful path, learning to let go of what you can't control, and finding a way to stay rooted in a rapidly changing world. Enjoy! --- Two Bear Farm The Farmers' Stand Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/todd-ulizio --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener-supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Exciting updates 2:33 - Intro 4:14 - Patreon + Sponsors + Old Salt 7:24 – Where Todd grew up 11:38 – Todd as a kid 13:07 – Off to college 17:34 – Ditching accounting 21:57 – How change felt 24:18 – Post University of Montana to Alaska 27:49 – Alaska takeaways 31:36 – Choosing farming 37:05 – What helped Todd make an impact 40:08 – A relationship forged in fire 43:32 – Doubts in the moment? 47:39 – Food system frustrations and burnout 52:43 – How to lighten up 1:01:07 – Dexter cows 1:02:34 – Always going and stillness 1:09:02 – The farm 1:14:56 – What's next 1:18:06 – Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Sammy Matsaw Jr. is the Director of the Columbia Basin Program at The Nature Conservancy, where he works at the intersection of salmon recovery, tribal sovereignty, and large-scale river restoration across one of the most complex watersheds in North America. In this role, Sammy helps guide conservation strategies that span state lines, political boundaries, and cultural histories—while keeping people, relationships, and responsibility at the center of the work. Sammy grew up on the Shoshone-Bannock Reservation, surrounded by salmon stories, land-based learning, and a deep sense of responsibility to place. He served in the U.S. military, including combat deployments overseas, before returning home to heal, reconnect, and rebuild—eventually earning advanced degrees in ecology, policy, and conservation science. Along the way, he's navigated life as a soldier, scientist, ceremonial practitioner, husband, father, and now grandfather, carrying Indigenous knowledge forward while engaging directly with Western institutions and systems. In this conversation, we talk about salmon restoration as a healing journey—not just for rivers, but for communities and cultures shaped by loss, displacement, and change. We dig into Indigenous knowledge alongside Western science, the role of humility and trust in conservation, and why Sammy believes real progress only happens through relationships and long-term commitment. We also explore his vision for the Columbia Basin, his leadership inside TNC, and what it means to show up—day after day—with curiosity, care, and what he calls "barefoot trust-building." This is a thoughtful, hopeful, and vulnerable conversation, and I greatly appreciate Sammy taking the time to chat with me. I hope you enjoy. --- Sammy Matsaw Jr., Director of TNC's Columbia Basin Program TNC's Columbia Basin Program Full episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/sammy-matsaw --- This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive. During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy's leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. To learn more about The Nature Conservancy's impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:00 - Intro, where and how Sammy grew up 10:03 - Sammy's decision to join the military 15:34 - Readjusting to home 20:48 - What helps heal 24:58 - Sammy's academic journey 32:12 - Salmon work 39:09 - Entry into TNC 43:55 - Salmon restoration as a healing journey 50:09 - Layers of the job 57:31 - Book recs 1:01:18 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Today's episode is a bit of a departure from the usual format. I'm re-sharing a recent conversation I had on my friend Brendan Leonard's new podcast, My Favorite Things. I'm sure most of y'all are already familiar with Brendan's work, but for those of you who aren't, he's an author, illustrator, filmmaker, and creator of Semi-Rad. Brendan's new podcast is built around a simple but fascinating premise: conversations about the books, films, art, and creative works that have helped shape a person's life and career. In this conversation, we spend less time on what I do, and more time on what's influenced how I think and live — from Theodore Roosevelt and Sebastian Junger to a Winslow Homer painting and a movie that's been oddly entertaining and instructive over the years. (I bet y'all can guess the movie.) There are already several excellent episodes live featuring thoughtful, interesting people, and Brendan has created something both entertaining and instructive with this podcast. If you enjoy this conversation, I'd encourage you to subscribe, explore the rest of the episodes, and share the show with any of your friends who might enjoy it. Thanks so much for listening and here's my appearance on My Favorite Things. --- My Favorite Things: Apple, Spotify, YouTube Episode Website Semi-Rad.com --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:10: Background — Mountain & Prairie, family, and the "strenuous life" 5:00: Favorite Thing #1 — Jimmy Buffett liner notes 11:30: Favorite Thing #2 — The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt 20:00: Favorite Thing #3 — Winslow Homer's The Gulf Stream 28:15: Favorite Thing #4 — Tribe by Sebastian Junger 39:30: Favorite Thing #5 — Road House 52:15: Closing reflections --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Mike Schaedel is the Western Montana Forest Restoration Director for The Nature Conservancy, where he leads some of the most ambitious and collaborative forest restoration work happening anywhere in the West. Based in Missoula, Mike works at the intersection of science, community partnerships, and land stewardship—helping restore fire-adapted forests, reduce wildfire risk, and improve the health and resilience of landscapes across the region. Mike's career path is super interesting and anything but traditional. He grew up in Portland, fell in love with the mountains through rock climbing, and eventually landed in Missoula, where the combination of wild landscapes and a rich literary community drew him in. After earning an undergraduate degree in creative writing, he found his way into forestry and fire ecology through conservation corps work, hands-on restoration experience, and a graduate program focused on forest dynamics and fire. In this conversation, Mike offers a clear overview of how Western Montana's forests came to look the way they do today—shaped by millennia of tribal burning, transformed by railroad-era land grants and industrial logging, and altered further by a century of fire suppression. He explains why effective restoration now depends on combining mechanical thinning with prescribed fire and on working across ownership boundaries with partners ranging from local communities to tribes and federal agencies. We also discuss some of the innovative collaborative efforts underway in the region, as well as a memorable story of a prescribed burn that came together through quick problem-solving and deep trust. This is a rich, informative, and hopeful conversation about what it takes to restore forests at scale—and why the future of these landscapes depends on both ecological understanding and strong community partnerships. Enjoy! --- Michael Schaedel, Western Montana Forest Restoration Director Reserved Treaty Rights Lands Program: The Power of Partnership Complete episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/mike-schaedel --- This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive. During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy's leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. To learn more about The Nature Conservancy's impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 3:02 – Intro, Mike's love for Missoula 6:04 – Getting a creative writing degree 8:21 – And fighting back into forestry 12:26 – Early writing influences 13:39 – Switching sides of the brain 15:32 – First job out of grad school 20:08 – And that work now 23:38 – Checkerboard landownership 33:04 – Conservation accomplishment 34:56 – Fitting in forest health 39:33 – Fire scars 45:52 – The Big Burn 52:59 – Fire playing a beneficial role 58:51 – And the role mill workers play 1:02:03 – Projects down the pipeline 1:12:00 – Book recs 1:13:49 – Parting words --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

This month marks ten full years of my bimonthly book-recommendations project—a decade of weird little paragraphs about the books that grab my scattered attention. Whether you've been here since the beginning or signed up five minutes ago, thank you. I'm still baffled anyone reads these things, but I'm grateful all the same. To mark the occasion, I recorded a late-night solo episode from The Shed, diving deeper into each of my September & October picks: why I chose them, what stayed with me, and the sometimes-unexpected lessons I gleaned from each of them. Or you could just describe it as a guy sitting in his garden shed talking to himself. Your choice. You can read all of the recommendations here, or, if you're clamoring to receive more emails, you can sign up for the list here. Thanks for listening, thanks for reading, and here's to 10 more great years of great books. – September & October 2025 Book Recommendations Ed's Bimonthly Book Recommendations Sign up for the list – BOOKS DISCUSSED: 00:00 — Intro + 10 years of book-rec emails 05:45 — Burn by Peter Heller 11:00 — Jaber Crow by Wendell Berry (related rec) 11:45 — The Way Out by Devon O'Neil 17:10 — Simple Fly Fishing by Yvon Chouinard 21:50 — Pheasant Tail Simplicity by Yvon Chouinard 25:40 — Little Woodchucks by Nick Offerman 29:20 — Dirtbag Billionaire by David Gelles 35:00 — Shoe Dog by Phil Knight (related rec) 35:55 — Apple in China by Patrick McGee 40:45 — When McKinsey Comes to Town (related rec) 42:10 — The Devil's Hand by Jack Carr 46:15 — Closing thoughts --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Devon O'Neil, a Colorado-based journalist and author, discusses his gripping new book, which recounts a tragic backcountry ski incident. He shares how he earned the trust of a tight-knit mountain community while exploring the emotional weight of their shared grief. The conversation delves into the complexities of reporting sensitive stories, the risks of outdoor adventures, and how his own close calls have reshaped his understanding of danger. O'Neil's insights reveal the delicate balance between adventure and responsibility.

Carli Kierstead, the Forest Program Director for The Nature Conservancy in Wyoming, dives deep into the intricate relationship between Wyoming's forests and water supply. She shares her insights on the evolution of forest management amidst challenges like beetle outbreaks and climate change. Carli introduces the innovative concept of snowtography, explaining its role in monitoring snowpack and enhancing water resilience. Her personal journey and emphasis on building trust in conservation highlight the importance of collaboration for a sustainable future.

Bex Frucht is a force of nature—a storyteller and community builder whose work blends performance, land, and small-town life in the American West. Based in Livingston, Montana, she's the founder of TMI Live, a storytelling series that celebrates vulnerability, humor, and human connection, and for the past three years, she's been the "vibe steward" of the Old Salt Festival, where her talent for bringing people together has become legendary. Whether she's hosting a show, coaching storytellers, or emceeing a fundraiser, Bex radiates generosity, intelligence, and positivity in a way that elevates every room she's in. Like so many of my favorite people, her career path is as winding as it is fascinating: a Morehead-Cain Scholar at UNC Chapel Hill, she spent her early years in media and entertainment in New York and Los Angeles, then pivoted to environmental work before landing on a ranch in Colorado to learn about land stewardship from the ground up. Those years on the prairie, combined with her creative life in cities and her Southern roots, helped hone her rare ability to connect seemingly opposite worlds—artists and ranchers, movie stars and cowboys, locals and newcomers—through the shared power of story. In this conversation recorded at her home in Livingston, we trace her inspiring journey and talk about the lessons she's learned along the way: what it means to find your authentic voice, how storytelling can build bridges across divides, and why embracing your weirdness can be the key to a meaningful life. It's a funny, authentic conversation that's as instructive as it is entertaining. For anyone who's ever wondered how to forge their own path, live creatively, and stay grounded in community, this episode is for you. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of all the topics we discussed and links to everything. And give Bex a follow on Instagram to stay in the loop about her upcoming storytelling shows and appearances in Montana and beyond. A big thanks to Bex for her friendship, encouragement, inspiration, and this conversation. And thank you for listening. --- Bex on Instagram Bex on LinkedIn Bex's Seven Talk Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/bex-frucht/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:29 - Intro, where Bex grew up and how she got West 10:40 - Grade stress 14:21 - Being yourself so others can be themselves 16:11 - How Bex changed after college 24:11 - Lawyer land ethic to MTV 27:27 - NYC love 28:32 - LA freelancing and leaving MTV 32:49 - Live storytelling 37:24 - Oversharing is caring 42:54 - Starting with the person and Bex's views on food systems 47:31 - It's all messy 54:19 - Lessons from the ranch 1:00:44 - Vibe steward 1:03:52 - Bex's job in Livingston 1:10:11 - Creatives and cowboys 1:19:30 - Relationship currency 1:24:39 - Valuing creatives 1:27:57 - Book recs --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Yvon Chouinard needs no introduction. The founder of Patagonia, pioneer of clean climbing, co-founder of 1% for the Planet, and lifelong advocate for simplicity and wildness, he's one of the world's most influential environmental leaders. Now in his mid-80s, Yvon continues to live, work, and fish by the same principles that have guided him since his dirtbag climbing days: live simply, take responsibility for your impact, and keep finding meaning through deep, direct engagement with nature. His newest book, "Pheasant Tail Simplicity: Recipes and Techniques for Successful Fly Fishing," distills those philosophies into one of his lifelong passions—fly fishing. Co-authored with his longtime fishing buddies Craig Mathews and Mauro Mazzo, Pheasant Tail Simplicity begins as a guide to tying and fishing with only pheasant-tail flies, and becomes a case study in creativity, restraint, and how simplifying our pursuits can reconnect us to what really matters. You don't have to be a hardcore angler to glean important lessons from the book—its insights can be applied to almost any part of life. In this conversation, Yvon and I start out talking about fly fishing, of course—but we quickly veer into broader terrain: how constraints can become a path to freedom, how business can be a demonstration of ethics, and how pessimism can serve as a productive form of realism. He shares a ton of amazing stories—learning to fish with a tenkara master in Italy, teaching Crow Reservation children to fly fish, founding 1% for the Planet, why rebellious personalities make the best entrepreneurs, his love of regenerative agriculture, and why he still believes that action—no matter how small—is the cure for depression. It's a wide-ranging, funny, and wise discussion with someone who's spent a lifetime proving that the process is far more important than the outcome. During our conversation, you'll hear us reference several of Patagonia's pioneers—Kris Tompkins, Rick Ridgeway, and Vincent Stanley—all of whom I've interviewed here on Mountain & Prairie. If you'd like to listen to those episodes or check out their books, there are links in the episode notes. A huge thank-you to Patagonia, Patagonia Books, Patagonia Fly Fishing, and of course Yvon for the opportunity to have this conversation. Like many of you listeners, I've been deeply influenced by Yvon's work and worldview, so it was a dream come true to sit down with him for a long, relaxed conversation. Be sure to check out "Pheasant Tail Simplicity" and the many other excellent titles from Patagonia Books. Thanks so much for listening—I hope you enjoy. --- "Pheasant Tail Simplicity" "Simple Fly Fishing" Patagonia Books Patagonia Fly Fishing M&P Interview with Kris Tompkins M&P Interview with Rick Ridgeway M&P interview with Vincent Stanley Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/yvon-chouinard/ --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:50 - Intro, the blind fisherman in Labrador 5:37 - Why another book about flyfishing? 8:26 - The story of a Japanese tenkara rod 13:00 - It's the action that counts 16:03 - Democratic fly fishing 17:37 - Fishing emergers 19:45 - No shortcuts 25:12 - Simplifying sports 26:30 - Seeking constraints 29:06 - Juvenile delinquent energy 31:46 - A bug's life 36:05 - Origins of 1% for the Planet 40:16 - Yvon's regenerative ag interest 44:15 - Fighting climate change with market forces 46:36 - A happy pessimist 48:34 - Fly fishing forever 53:47 - Action as the anecdote to depression --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts