Derate The Hate

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Censorship in the Arts and the Fight For Free ExpressionToday’s episode is part of our ProHuman Foundation Board of Advisors series, where we have been highlighting voices committed to promoting our shared humanity, open dialogue, and diverse perspectives.My guest today is someone who embodies those values in her work and advocacy. Rosie Kay is an internationally renowned dancer and choreographer whose career has taken her across the world, using the power of movement to explore deep societal issues. She’s the founder of K2CO and Freedom in the Arts, a vital organization dedicated to protecting artistic freedom and defending artists against cancel culture.Rosie is also a fellow board advisor for the ProHuman Foundation, where we work alongside other thought leaders to push back against the growing culture of division. Her own journey in the arts has come with its challenges—particularly as political ideologies and conformity have taken hold in creative spaces. She’s been at the center of debates on gender ideology, free expression, and the role of self-discipline in art, and today, we’re diving into all of it.We’ll explore how self-censorship is creeping into the arts, why gender ideology is impacting women’s rights and spaces, and why open debate is essential for understanding one another. Rosie’s perspective is a powerful reminder that courage, resilience, and a return to shared humanity are more important than ever.TakeawaysDance is a powerful medium for expressing societal issues.Artists often face pushback for challenging the status quo.The arts have become increasingly conformist in recent years.Self-discipline is essential for artists alongside self-expression.Political alignment in the arts can lead to self-censorship.Fear and loathing have created a hostile environment for artists.Gender ideology impacts women's rights and spaces.Art connects the body, mind, and spirit in profound ways.Open debate is crucial for understanding differing viewpoints.The Pro Human Foundation promotes shared humanity and diverse beliefs.photo credit ~ Brian SlaterLearn more about and connect with Rosie Kay by getting the full shThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!The Transformative Power of Forgiveness: Unlocking Healing and ResilienceToday we’re diving back into a topic that I believe is fundamental to personal growth, emotional healing, and resilience: forgiveness.Now, we all hear that word a lot—people say, “Just forgive, forget and move on,” like it’s some quick decision, a one-time event. But my guest today, Katharine Giovanni, knows firsthand that forgiveness isn’t a destination—it’s a process, a journey, and sometimes, the hardest step we’ll ever take.Katharine is a three-time award-winning, best-selling author, a dynamic speaker, and a highly sought-after forgiveness coach. Beyond the accolades, what makes Katharine truly stand out is her personal story of resilience. From surviving stage 3 breast cancer to overcoming a traumatic childhood, she’s lived through experiences that many would call unforgivable—and yet, she’s found a way to move forward, not just surviving, but thriving.Her latest book, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness: Unlocking Your Power, is a game-changer because it doesn’t just tell you to forgive—it shows you how with a step-by-step approach. Takeaways from our conversation today:  Forgiveness is essential for personal healing.Self-forgiveness is often the hardest but most important step.You can forgive without wanting a relationship with the offender.Forgiveness can be a step-by-step process.Energy plays a significant role in how we experience forgiveness.Forgiving others can lead to emotional freedom.You can forgive even the unforgivable by breaking down the memory.Forgiveness is a journey, not a sprint.Your energy attracts similar energy from others.Forgiveness can transform your life and relationships.Learn more about and connect with Katharine Giovanni  by getting the full show notes for this episode at DerateTheHate.comThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Do You Want Revenge or Do You Want a Better America?Today, I have the privilege of welcoming back award-winning filmmaker, writer, and storyteller, Eli Steele. Eli is known for films like How Jack Became Black, What’s Bugging Seth, and most recently, What Killed Michael Brown?—a powerful and thought-provoking documentary he produced with his father, Shelby Steele. He also shares his insights on his Man of Steele Substack, where he continues challenging narratives and pushing for deeper discussions on race, identity, and the American experience.Eli and I dive into one of the most pressing issues facing our country today—the growing desire for revenge in our political and cultural landscape. Too often, we see frustration turning into retribution, but where does that really lead us? Do we move forward as a nation by tearing each other down, or is there a better path—one rooted in accountability, responsibility, and reconciliation?We’ll talk about how history has shaped the current racial and political climate, why the victimhood mentality is so destructive, and how the cycle of revenge only deepens division. Through the powerful Tar Baby analogy, we’ll explore how getting stuck in anger and resentment holds us back from real progress. This is a conversation about moving beyond identity politics, beyond blame, and beyond the toxic cycles that keep us from truly thriving.TakeawaysThe desire for revenge can consume individuals and hinder progress.The "Tar Baby" folk story illustrates the futility of seeking revenge.Historical context is crucial in understanding current racial dynamics.Revenge often leads to the creation of new tribal divisions.Empathy and compassion are vital in overcoming hatred.The fight for equality has been ongoing and complex.Trump's presidency is seen by many as a reaction to long-standing frustrations.Seeking revenge can compromise American principles and values.True progress requires moving beyond identity politics. Revenge leads to a never-ending cycle of conflict.Education is crucial for societal improvement.Civic engagement is essential for community rebuilding.We must talk to our neighbors to undThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!The Exponential Power of Gratitude: Unleashing Your Happiness Equation Let me ask you: How do you measure happiness? Is it something you chase, or something you cultivate?  What if I told you there’s an actual equation for happiness? A way to measure it, understand it, and most importantly, optimize it? That’s exactly what today’s guest, Leighton Campbell, has uncovered in his latest book, Your Happiness Equation.Leighton is a devoted husband, father of four, successful entrepreneur, and passionate reader who has traveled the world in search of deeper meaning and fulfillment. Through his journey, he’s identified seven key variables that shape our happiness—but there’s one element that doesn’t just add to the equation—it amplifies it: Gratitude.In fact, gratitude isn’t just another piece of the puzzle—it’s the exponent. It strengthens every other factor in the equation, multiplying its impact on your well-being. Want more peace? More purpose? More fulfillment? Gratitude magnifies all of it. And today, Leighton is going to break down exactly how that works.We’ll also explore the difference between fleeting joy and lasting happiness, the power of self-awareness, and why chasing the wrong things can actually lead to less happiness. And for those wondering where they stand, Leighton’s got a happiness quiz that will help you assess your own equation.TakeawaysGratitude is the genesis of happiness.Happiness is a long-term sense of peace and satisfaction.Chasing fleeting joy can lead to unhappiness.The happiness equation consists of seven key variables.Self-awareness is crucial for personal growth.Gratitude acts as an exponent in the happiness equation.Belonging to meaningful groups enhances happiness.Understanding your purpose contributes to happiness.Optimizing happiness is more important than maximizing it.Everyone can benefit from assessing their happiness score.Learn more about and connect with Leighton Campbell by getting the full show notes at DerateTheHate.com.The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Mastering Resilience and Emotional Intelligence Through Storytelling My guest today is the incredible Madelaine Claire Weiss. She’s a Harvard-trained psychotherapist, mindset expert, and board-certified executive coach. With a background that spans corporate leadership, education, and mental health, Madelaine has dedicated her career to helping people navigate life’s challenges with clarity and confidence.She’s the bestselling author of Getting to G.R.E.A.T.: A 5-Step Strategy for Work and Life, which breaks down a powerful framework for personal and professional success. And now, she’s bringing that wisdom to young minds with her new book, What’s Your Story?—a personal development workbook for kids featuring a character named Brainy, who helps children understand how their minds work and how they can take control of their own narratives.In this conversation, we’ll explore the role of storytelling in resilience, why emotional intelligence is key to making better decisions, and how parents can equip their children with the coping skills they need to thrive. We’ll also break down her G-R-E-A-T framework—grounding, recognizing, exploring, taking action, and tackling resistance—and how it can help all of us lead happier, more fulfilling lives.TakeawaysResilience can be built through storytelling and emotional awareness.The G-R-E-A-T framework includes grounding, recognizing, exploring, action, and tackling resistance.Children often lack the emotional intelligence to cope with challenges.It's essential to honor emotions and use them as data for decision-making.The brain is a story-making machine, and we can improve our narratives.Parents should teach children about the brain and how it works.Emotional intelligence is crucial for making sound decisions.Grounding in the belief of a great life is the first step to achieving it.Action is necessary for happiness and personal growth.Understanding the internal environment is key to overall well-being.Learn more about and connect with Madelaine Claire Weiss online by getting the full show notes at www.DerateTheHate.comThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Raising Informed Citizens: The Power of Civic Education and EngagementToday, we’re tackling yet another topic that couldn’t be more relevant—civic education and the role we all play in shaping the next generation of informed citizens. Politics today is often framed as a battlefield, where division and outrage seem to dominate the conversation. But what if we approached it differently? What if we saw civic engagement not as a fight, but as a shared responsibility—one that starts at home?My guest today is Lindsey Cormack, an associate professor of Political Science and Director of the Diplomacy Lab at Stevens Institute of Technology. She’s the author of How to Raise a Citizen (And Why It’s Up to You to Do It), a book that explores the vital role parents play in helping their children understand our government, engage in politics constructively, and become active participants in democracy. Lindsey’s work also includes maintaining DC Inbox, a digital archive of congressional e-newsletters, giving her unique insight into how politics is communicated to the public.In this conversation, we’ll discuss why civic education has been deprioritized, how media algorithms shape our perceptions, and why understanding different political perspectives is crucial for a healthy democracy. Most importantly, we’ll explore how parents and communities can work together to create a more informed and engaged electorate for the future.TakeawaysCivic education is essential for youth to understand their role in democracy.Parents play a crucial role in teaching their children about politics.The current education system often deprioritizes civics education.Political engagement should be framed positively, not negatively.Toxic polarization hinders constructive political discourse.Media algorithms often reinforce divisive narratives.Understanding both sides of the political spectrum is vital for informed citizenship.Civic engagement is a shared responsibility among parents and communities.Encouraging children to participate in politics can lead to a more informed electorate.The American political system, despite its flaws, is worth understanding and preserving.Learn more aThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Radical Moderation: Breaking Free from Binary ThinkingMy guest this week is Lauren Hall, a professor of political science, an author, and a thought leader whose work challenges the rigid, binary ways we often think about personal, social, and political issues. She’s written extensively on the medicalization of birth and death, the politics of family, and the crucial need for what she calls radical moderation—a framework that moves beyond “us versus them” thinking and embraces the full complexity of human experience.Lauren’s approach introduces a four-dimensional way of understanding our world—one that demands humility, curiosity, and a recognition that real solutions exist beyond the false choices we’re so often given. In a time when civil discourse feels like a lost art, her work reminds us of the power of pluralism, gratitude, and the willingness to engage with perspectives outside of our own echo chambers.Beyond her academic work, Lauren is yet another of my fellow advisors for the ProHuman Foundation, a group committed to fostering open and honest conversations about the issues that shape our lives. In this episode, we’ll explore the dangers of negativity bias, the importance of lived experience, and how practicing radical moderation can help us bridge the divides that seem to grow wider every day.TakeawaysRadical moderation challenges binary thinking in society.Understanding different dimensions of experience is crucial.Lived experiences shape our perspectives and judgments.Negativity bias affects how we perceive the world.Gratitude can enhance our understanding of others.Trade-offs are inherent in every decision we make.Complexity in social issues requires humility and curiosity.Pluralism acknowledges the diversity of human experiences.Engaging in civil discourse can bridge divides.We share a common humanity despite our differences.Learn more about and connect with Lauren K. Hall by checking out the full show notes for this episode at DerateTheHate.com.The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Empowering the Next Generation: Breaking Stereotypes and Building BridgesI’m excited to bring you an inspiring story of transformation and hope with this week's guest, Quay Hanna. Quay’s journey is one of those rare, raw tales that has the power to reshape perspectives. Back in the mid-90s, Quay was just another young man from rural Pennsylvania with preconceived notions and a limited view of the world. But that all changed when he embarked on a nine-week Greyhound bus journey across 37 states. What began as a simple cross-country trip turned into a life-altering experience, chronicled in his memoir Bus America: Revelation of a Redneck.In the years since, Quay has taken his lessons from the road and transformed them into over 1,300 presentations across multiple countries, speaking with honesty and heart about the importance of understanding, diversity, and confronting stereotypes. His ability to connect with people of all backgrounds and bridge divides has made him a sought-after speaker and a passionate advocate for youth empowerment and community building.Quay and I also share a common bond as fellow advisors on the ProHuman Foundation, an organization committed to fostering unity and human dignity. Today, we’ll dive into the profound insights he gained on his journey, discuss his work in education and youth empowerment, and explore how simple human connections can dismantle even the most entrenched prejudices.TakeawaysA Greyhound bus trip opened Quay's eyes to his own prejudices.Quay's experiences highlight the complexity of identity.He learned that stereotypes often dictate behavior.Quay's transformation was sparked by genuine interactions.There is great importance in the understanding of others.Ignorance can lead to fear, which breeds hate.Quay's journal documented his evolving perspective. Personal connections can break down racial barriers.Conversations can challenge our preconceived notions.Empathy is key in understanding others.Youth today crave genuine connections.Education can bridge divides in society.Prejudices can be challenged through shared experiences.Community support is vital for youth empowerment.EmpowerThe world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Christianity's Role in a Virtuous and Prosperous DemocracyI’m thrilled to welcome back a guest who is both a brilliant thinker and someone I deeply respect, even though we often disagree politically—Jonathan Rauch.Jonathan is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution, a contributing writer for The Atlantic, and the author of several thought-provoking books, including Kindly Inquisitors and The Constitution of Knowledge. Some of you might remember when he joined me back in January 2023 to talk about The Constitution of Knowledge and our shared work with Braver Angels, bridging divides and fostering healthier conversations in our polarized world.Today, Jonathan is here to discuss his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy. This powerful new work delves into the complex and often fraught relationship between Christianity and democracy in America. Jonathan reflects on his own journey as an atheist from skepticism to a deeper appreciation for the role of Christianity in fostering a virtuous society—something our founders understood as essential for a thriving democracy.We’ll talk about why fear, outrage, and grievance have become so toxic in our political and civic life, how a more Christ-like approach can help heal societal divides, and what it means to reconnect Christianity with its core tenets. Jonathan challenges us to think about the vital role of 'thick' Christianity—faith that provides meaning, virtue, and community—in building a stronger, more inclusive democracy.As always, our conversation touches on the work of Braver Angels, the importance of depolarization, and the need for both secular and religious communities to come together with understanding. So, get ready for another insightful conversation with Jonathan Rauch, right here on Derate the Hate. Learn more about and connect with Jonathan Rauch by checking out the full show notes for this episode at www.DerateTheHate.com.The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!Bridging Racial Divides Through Mutual Accountability and UnityJoining me today is Dr. George Yancey, a distinguished sociologist, professor at Baylor University, and the author of Beyond Racial Division. George is also another of our esteemed members of the ProHuman foundation Board of Advisors. Dr. Yancey’s work is both refreshing and deeply needed. While so much of the current conversation around race is polarized—whether it’s the call for colorblindness or the push for anti-racism—he critiques these approaches for their shortcomings. Instead, he advocates for something radically different: mutual accountability, genuine dialogue, and active listening. His Christian-based model for race relations offers practical steps to foster understanding and unity while humanizing, rather than stigmatizing, individuals.In Beyond Racial Division, Dr. Yancey challenges us to confront the complexities of race without falling into the traps of identity politics or reinforcing division. He emphasizes that finding common ground is valuable, but it’s not always necessary for meaningful connection. It’s about creating better conversations, not just louder ones.Dr. Yancey’s work aligns closely with the mission of organizations like the Pro Human Foundation, which is committed to promoting unity and a pro-human message. As someone deeply invested in bringing people together, I can’t wait to unpack his insights and explore how we can all play a role in bridging divides.TakeawaysGeorge Yancey's work focuses on bridging divides in society.His book 'Beyond Racial Division' offers practical steps for addressing racial issues.Colorblindness ignores the realities of racial discrimination.Anti-racism can create a backlash and reinforce division.Mutual accountability is essential for effective dialogue.Active listening is crucial for understanding differing perspectives.Conversations should aim to humanize rather than stigmatize individuals.Identity politics can negatively impact well-being.Finding common ground is important, but not always necessary.Organizations like the Pro Human Foundation play a vital role in promoting unity.Learn more about and connect with The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be! Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast! *The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.