The BlueHat Podcast

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Jason Geffner, Principal Security Architect at Microsoft, to discuss his groundbreaking work on scaling and automating Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST). Following on from his BlueHat 2024 session, and outlined in this MSRC blog post, Jason explains the key differences between DAST, SAST, and IAST, and dives into the challenges of scaling DAST at Microsoft’s enterprise level, detailing how automation eliminates manual configuration and improves efficiency for web service testing.   In This Episode You Will Learn:    Overcoming the challenges of authenticated requests for DAST tools  The importance of API specs for DAST and how automation streamlines the process  Insights into how Microsoft uses DAST to protect its vast array of web services   Some Questions We Ask:   What's a lesson from this work that you can share with those without Microsoft's resources?  Can you explain what the transparent auth protocol is that you mentioned in the blog post?  How is your work reducing the manual effort needed to configure DAST system services?    Resources:      View Jason Geffner on LinkedIn   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn   Related Blog Post: Scaling Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) | MSRC Blog Related BlueHat Session Recording: BlueHat 2024: S10: How Microsoft is Scaling DAST   Related Microsoft Podcasts:      Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by BlueHat 2024 presenter Joe Bialek, a security engineer at Microsoft with over 13 years of experience. Joe shares his fascinating journey from intern to red team pioneer, recounting how he helped establish the Office 365 Red Team and pushed the boundaries of ethical hacking within Microsoft. He discusses his formative years building sneaky hacking tools, navigating the controversial beginnings of red teaming, and transitioning to the Windows Security Team to focus on low-level security and mitigations. Joe reflects on the challenges of internal hacking, the human reactions to being "hacked," and the value of strengthening defenses before external threats arise.  In This Episode You Will Learn:    How Microsoft is developing tooling to identify and address bad programming patterns  Why kernel-related discussions are primarily focused on Windows and driver developers  The challenges developers face when reading and writing through pointers in C or C++   Some Questions We Ask:   How does working with the Windows kernel impact system security and performance?  What sets Windows kernel and driver development apart from other types of development?  Why should internal teams test systems for vulnerabilities before external hackers?     Resources:      View Joe Bialek on LinkedIn  View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn   BlueHat 2024 Session: Pointer Problems – Why We’re Refactoring the Windows Kernel  Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks      Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network. 

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone welcome back George Hughey and Rohit Mothe from the Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) to discuss their latest blog post on mitigating NTLM relay attacks by default. George and Rohit explain their roles in vulnerability hunting and delve into NTLM, a 40-year-old authentication protocol, outlining its vulnerabilities and the risks of relay attacks, which function as a type of man-in-the-middle exploit. They highlight Microsoft's move to a "secure by default" approach, ensuring mitigations like channel binding are enabled automatically, providing stronger protections across services like Exchange, Active Directory Certificate Services (ADCS), and LDAP.   In This Episode You Will Learn:    Steps users can take to enhance security in their environments  Why legacy protocols remain a challenge and what the future might hold  The challenges and successes of improving authentication security    Some Questions We Ask:  What is an NTLM relay attack, and how does it work?  Can you explain channel binding and its role in preventing NTLM relay attacks?  What challenges arise from modernizing authentication in complex environments?       Resources:      View George Hughey on LinkedIn  View Rohit Mothe on LinkedIn  View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:      Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts    

Yonatan Zunger, CVP of AI Safety & Security at Microsoft joins Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone on this week's episode of The BlueHat Podcast. Yonatan explains the distinction between generative and predictive AI, noting that while predictive AI excels in classification and recommendation, generative AI focuses on summarizing and role-playing. He highlights how generative AI's ability to process natural language and role-play has vast potential, though its applications are still emerging. He contrasts this with predictive AI's strength in handling large datasets for specific tasks. Yonatan emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations in AI development, stressing the need for continuous safety engineering and diverse perspectives to anticipate and mitigate potential failures. He provides examples of AI's positive and negative uses, illustrating the importance of designing systems that account for various scenarios and potential misuses.    In This Episode You Will Learn:      How predictive AI anticipates outcomes based on historical data  The difficulties and strategies involved in making AI systems safe and secure from misuse  How role-playing exercises help developers understand the behavior of AI systems    Some Questions We Ask:       What distinguishes predictive AI from generative AI?  Can generative AI be used to improve decision-making processes?  What is the role of unit testing and test cases in policy and AI system development?    Resources:  View Yonatan Zunger on LinkedIn     View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn  View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn   Related Microsoft Podcasts:    Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks     Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts  

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Johann Rehberger, security expert and Red Team director at Electronic Arts. Johann shares his career journey through roles at Microsoft, Uber, and EA, highlighting his expertise in red teaming and cybersecurity. Johann shares the inspiration behind his book on Red Team strategies and discusses his BlueHat 2024 talk on prompt injection vulnerabilities, a critical and evolving AI security challenge. Johann breaks down the distinction between prompt injection and jailbreaking, offering insights into the potential risks, including data exfiltration and system unavailability, and emphasizes the importance of securing Red Teams themselves.   In This Episode You Will Learn:    Why AI tools should have stricter default settings to control what kind of outputs they generate  The importance of reading technical documentation to understand how AI systems are built  Why developers should implement stronger filters for what tokens are allowed to be emitted by LLMs   Some Questions We Ask:   How are prompt injection and SQL injection similar, and how are they different?  What is AI spyware, and how does it exploit memory tools in ChatGPT?  Does AI jailbreaking access the LLM’s core system like iPhone jailbreaking does the OS?       Resources:      View Johann Rehberger on LinkedIn  View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:      Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone present an insightful address by Corporate Vice President and Head of Product for Microsoft's Developer Division, Amanda Silver. Amanda discusses the importance of securing the software supply chain and Microsoft's efforts to protect the open-source ecosystem. She introduces the Secure Software Supply Chain Consumption Framework (S2C2F), a model for tracking and defending against vulnerabilities in open-source dependencies. Silver highlights tools like Dependabot and improvements in NuGet to help developers address security issues seamlessly. She also shares a case study on the "XZ" supply chain attack, underscoring the need for a security mindset in tech culture. Silver closes by urging listeners to adopt a proactive approach to cybersecurity, emphasizing that attacks are inevitable.    Resources:   View Amanda Silver on LinkedIn     View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:      Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In episode 41 of The BlueHat Podcast we bring you the BlueHat 2024 day 1 keynote address given by Chris Wysopal, also known as Weld Pond, founder and Chief Security Evangelist at VeraCode, and founding member of the L0pht.   Chris’ talk - A Clash of Cultures Comes Together to Change Software Security - recounts the early days of “hacking” and how the industry evolved to embrace vulnerability discovery and coordinated, responsible disclosure.  Chris presentation provides a fascinating reflection on a tumultuous period for Microsoft around 2001, marked by significant vulnerability discoveries, which ultimately led to the establishment of the Organization for Internet Safety and the consultancy AtStake, transforming the security landscape and professionalizing the role of hackers. Watch Chris’ BlueHat 2024 Day 1 Keynote here: https://youtu.be/w6SAqT4ZQik  Resources:   View Chris Wysopal on LinkedIn     View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:      Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   

In this episode of the Blue Hat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Arjun Gopalakrishna, a security engineer at Microsoft, to discuss his fascinating journey from software engineer to security leader. Arjun reflects on his 11-year tenure at Microsoft, including how a childhood experience with a computer virus sparked his curiosity in cybersecurity. He talks about his early exposure to security issues while working in Windows and his eventual transition to Azure security. Arjun also shares insights into how he began presenting security talks internally through Microsoft's Strike program and how he continues to use storytelling to make complex security concepts approachable for colleagues across the company.  In This Episode You Will Learn:      The importance of empathy and accessibility when discussing technical vulnerabilities  Why Arjun honed his focus on cloud security, application security, and offensive security.  How Microsoft's internal Strike platform helps employees build a deeper understanding of cybersecurity  Some Questions We Ask:       Can you walk us through how you honed in on a specific area of security?  What are your tips for bringing non-security professionals into a security mindset?  Is there anything you're specifically working on within SFI?    Resources:  View Arjun Gopalakrishna on LinkedIn  View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn  View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn  Related Microsoft Podcasts:    Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks    Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts  The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network. 

In this episode of the Blue Hat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone interview each other to give listeners insight into their personal and professional backgrounds. Nic recounts his unique career journey, which began with jobs like working as a chicken butcher and selling CDs, before joining Microsoft as an Xbox demo specialist. His career with Microsoft spanned various roles, ultimately leading him to work on the Blue Hat program, where he was captivated by the concept of ethical hacking. Wendy, on the other hand, shares her transition from PR into security, with stops at Netflix and Salesforce, and her current role at Microsoft leading the Strike program.   In This Episode You Will Learn:      Wendy’s experience buying chicken from a stranger in a parking lot  Nic’s encounter with The Rock during a wrestling game demo  Wendy starting in public relations before transitioning to the security world    Some Questions We Ask:       How did attending an all-women’s software engineering school influence your career shift?  What do you enjoy most about working in the security field?  What advice do you have for women looking to enter the security industry?     Resources:  View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn  View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn  Related Microsoft Podcasts:   Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks    Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network. 

Jim Hull, Program Manager at MSRC joins Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone on this week's episode of The BlueHat Podcast to share insights into his role in reviewing vulnerability reports and managing cases. They dive into the submission process, detailing the types of reports accepted by MSRC and what happens after a researcher submits a potential vulnerability. The conversation also highlights the accessibility of the portal for anyone interested in identifying security issues, whether they are professionals or hobbyists. Jim explains the importance of providing clear proof of concept when submitting a vulnerability and walks through the steps MSRC takes to triage, reproduce, and resolve reports.   In This Episode You Will Learn:      Why a detailed proof of concept is essential when submitting a vulnerability  How the MSRC collaborates with engineers at Microsoft to resolve vulnerabilities  The importance of including video or image documentation to support reports    Some Questions We Ask:       What is the vulnerability triage process at MSRC?  How long does it take to fix a vulnerability after it’s been reported?  Why is it important to use the researcher portal instead of email or social media?     Resources:  Microsoft Security Response Center   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn  View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn   Related Microsoft Podcasts:    Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks     Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.