

The RunOut Podcast
Andrew Bisharat & Chris Kalous
Chris Kalous (The Enormocast) and Andrew Bisharat (Evening Sends) bring 40+ years of combined climbing experience to the mic while they talk to the best and most interesting people in climbing. The hosts take on rock climbing, bouldering, ice climbing, alpinism, comp climbing, all the climbing. No subject is left out or climbing dogma unexamined. You may not agree with the take, but you’ll likely laugh about it later.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 31, 2025 • 1h 17min
Runout #153: Sex, Angst, and Rocks—Emily Meg Weinstein
Emily Weinstein is a New Yorker, radical activist, rabid Met's fan, and climber who lives on a house boat in the San Francisco Bay. Her new book is called Turn to Stone: A Memoir.
But first we catch up what's happening in our climbing worlds, from stancing out out projects to taking a stance on fear.
Our final bit is an excerpt from a standup comedy act from Ethan Newman.
Show Notes
Follow Emily Weinstein
Turn to Stone: A Memoir from Simon & Schuster
Follow Ethan Newman
The One and Only Bar in St George
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Jul 20, 2025 • 1h 6min
The RunOut #152: Will Moss (Actually) Day Flashes Free Rider
Will Moss is a trad climber originally from New York. He recently flashed Free Rider on El Capitan, becoming the first to do it in a day and only the second person ever to flash an El Cap free climb. Will's preparation to flash this route was insanely detailed, involving pouring over every video clip he could find, and person he could talk to. He even trained on simulators for the crux. Will shares the whole story of his groundbreaking ascent here.
But first, what's better than having a project? Sharing a project with your partner. We talk about all the ways that working on a route together can bring you closer with your friend—until it doesn't.
Today's Final Bit is courtesy of Rob Seaver and his band FOND, based out of Alexandria, Virgina. This climbing-inspired song is called Hooking Up.
Show Notes
Follow Will Moss on Instagram
Will Moss's first appearance on The RunOut, episode 122.
Will Moss Becomes First Person to Flash El Cap in a Day
Babsi Zangerl flashes Free Rider
Can Beetroot Powder Improve Athletic Performance?
Effect of tadalafil (Cialis) on anaerobic performance indices in healthy athletes
Follow FOND on Instagram
Listen to FOND on Apple Music / Spotify -- Links on Bandcamp
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast
Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Jun 29, 2025 • 1h 30min
The RunOut #151: Linking it up with Tanner Wanish and Michael Vaill
Tanner Wanish and Michael Vaill are two of the best speed climbers in Yosemite today. They currently hold the record for the historic Yosemite Triple Crown with a time of 17 hours and 55 minutes, and they're also the only climbers to also add in a fourth big wall on top of that feat—a linkup they dubbed the Quad.
We spoke to Tanner and Michael about their partnership, the allure of linkups, the dangers of speed climbing and competition, and the real joy beyond what you see on social media of clocking big walls for breakfast.
But first, bolts be pulling out, yo. What's the best way to address aging crags? Your fixed podcast anchors weigh in.
Last, the infamous Tall Jonathan, of the podcast formerly known as TAPS call-in fame, AKA Jonathan Sides, delivers Something More.
Show Notes
Forget the Yosemite Triple… These Guys Just Did the Quad
How Two Lesser-Known Rock Climbers Smashed a Fabled Yosemite Record
Follow Tanner Wanish
Follow Michael Vaill
Listen to "Something More" by Jonathan Sides on Spotify
Follow Jonathan Sides on Instagram
Enormocast 302: Last Rites
Increase your RunOut runtime. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Bonus episodes, AMA, and more are available on Patreon. This is the best way to support the show! Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Jun 11, 2025 • 1h 14min
RunOut 150: Girl Climber, with Emily Harrington and Jon Glassberg
Jon Glassberg is a photographer and filmmaker, and Emily Harrington is one of America's most prolific professional climbers, whose all-around feats span summits of 8,000 meter peaks, 5.14, National Comp podiums, and free ascents of El Capitan. Their new film is Girl Climber, which is profile of Emily and her quest to free climb Golden Gate on El Capitan in a day.
But first, crack open a case of Send Lite and help us ponder whether we need way more terms for doing what we do with our rock-climbing ascents.
Our final bit is "Big Wall," an alt-rock ear worm from Nathan Murdoch, from the forthcoming EP "If You're Not There."
Show Notes
Follow Emily Harrington
Follow Jon Glassberg
Pre-order Girl Climber from Jolt Film
Girl Climber film review from Climbing Mag
Follow Nathan Murdoch
Listen to Big Wall on Spotify
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast
Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

May 22, 2025 • 1h 33min
RunOut 149: Jordan Cannon and Mark Hudon, live from El Cap
Jordan Cannon is a professional climber, known for his free and speed-climbing feats on El Capitan. Mark Hudon is one of the fathers of big-wall free climbing, best known for making a very early and audacious free attempt of the Salathé Wall in 1979 with Max Jones, nearly a decade before El Cap was officially first free climbed by Todd Skinner and Paul Piana. Jordan and Mark's partnership is legendary, best encapsulated in the film "Free As Can Be," which documents Jordan's ascent of Freerider in a day and Mark's attempt to finally complete a free ascent of El Capitan by the same route, more than four decades later.
On today's episode, we make podcasting history by recording our episode live from halfway up the side of El Capitan, as Jordan attempts to free the Salathé Wall via the rarely repeated, and arguably official crux pitch—the infamous pitch 19—with Mark supporting him on belay.
This is a two-part episode. To hear the second half of our conversation, you'll need to join us at Patreon.com
But first, your over-stoker podcast hosts run into the latest climbing headlines and cover the biggest downgrades to the most impressive ascents, while wondering whether it's all just one big Tommy Caldwell sandbag.
Today's final bit features the return of the Seattle post punk power trio rock band Dragontail Peak, with the song Three Rules--as in three rules of big-wall climbing.
Show Notes
Mandatory listening:
"Bonus: The Free Salathé Wall’s Strange Revisionist History"
"Bonus: Pitch 19, Part Deux"
Enormocast: Episode 152: Mark Hudon and Max Jones – As Free as Can Be.
Follow Jordan Cannon on Instagram
Follow Mark Hudon on Instagram
Mark Hudon website
Bill Ramsey, 64, does Wrongdoer (8b+)
Tommy Caldwell, 46, does Empath 9a (+) calling it 8c
From V16 to Big Walls: Pietro Vidi Makes the Second Ascent of ‘Lurking Fear’
UNCUT: "No one Mourns The Wicked" - V17/9A - Hamish McArthur
Follow DragonTail Peak on Instagram
DragonTail Peak on Bandcamp
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast
Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

May 17, 2025 • 1h 22min
RunOut 148: The Evolution of Sonnie Trotter
Sonnie Trotter is a professional climber from Canada, whose notable ascents include the first ascent of Cobra Crack in Squamish, The Shining on Mount Louis, and the Pineapple Express on El Capitan. His new book is called UPLIFTED: The Evolution of a Climbing Life.
But first, is it aid? One of climbing's most perennial questions comes up in a way that leaves your hosts breathless.
Our final bit is "Yamashiro" by Recorduroy, a fusion band based in Colorado, with climber Dave Cohen on drums.
Show Notes
"UPLIFTED: The Evolution of a Climbing Life" from Patagonia Books
Read "Manboy" an excerpt from Sonnie's new book on Evening Sends
Follow Sonnie Trotter on Instagram
Listen to Yamashiro on Spotify and Apple Music
Recorduroy on Spotify and Apple Music
Follow Recorduroy on Instagram
Why an Inhaler Sparked a Personal Style Debate on ‘Life of Villains’
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

May 5, 2025 • 1h 27min
RunOut 147: How Briana Mazzolini-Blanchard is Pushing the Limits of Climbing Activism
Briana Mazzolini-Blanchard is the executive director of Urban Native Collective, the host of the Life on the Margins: An Urban Native Experience podcast, the co-founder of the Indigenous Field Guide, and a collaborator with the American Climbing Project. She recently stepped down from the Red River Gorge Climbing Coalition Board of Directors over their decision to discontinue their community programming: Climb L8, an initiative integral to their efforts to remove systemic and financial barriers to entry into rock climbing.
But first, your very influential podcast hosts discuss the latest list of top climbing influencers, talk about what we want to see on social media, and give our draft picks for our top follows.
Our final bit is Boulder-based climber Kyle Ward's band Dry Mouth, back with more.
Show Notes
Follow Briana Mazzolini-Blanchard on Instagram
Urban Native Collective
Urban Native Collective on Instagram
Life on the Margins Podcast
Life on the Margins Podcast on Instagram
American Climbing Project on Instagram
American Climbing Project on Patreon
Climb L8 - web archive
Follow Kyle Ward on Instagram
Follow Dry Mouth on Instagram
Dry Mouth - Soundcloud
Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Apr 16, 2025 • 1h 36min
RunOut #146: From Big Walls to Open Water: Unlocking the Expedition Mindset with Mark Synnott
Mark Synnott is a professional big-wall climber, expedition sailor, and writer whose books have included The Third Pole and The Impossible Climb. His latest book is Into The Ice, an epic read about his recent voyage across the infamous Northwest Passage and the historical mysteries that lie within. The 6,736-mile journey takes 112 days, allowing Mark to give us his most personal memoir yet while weaving in the historical details of British explorer Sir John Franklin and the 128 men he led on an ill-fated expedition in the mid-19th century.
But first, we gush over some cool climbing news: Brooke Raboutou becomes the first woman to reach 5.15c, and Connor Herson makes a quick tick of one of the hardest crack climbs in the desert: Mason Earle's Stranger Than Fiction
Our final bit is a throwback to a moment in time when the Black Nugget in Carbondale was the place to be, and Sector 7G found a groove that sent the cowboys and hippies spiraling.
Show Notes
Follow Mark Synnott on Instagram and check out his homepage
"Into the Ice" from Penguin Random House
All books by Mark Synnott
Northwest Passage - Wikipedia
Northwest Passage - AP
The RunOut #60 - Mark Synnott and Everest
News: Brooke Raboutou Climbs 5.15c
Follow Brooke | Her send post
News: Connor Herson Climbs Stranger Than Fiction (5.14b)
Follow Connor | His send post
Mason Earle's tapped foot

Apr 3, 2025 • 1h 12min
RunOut #145: Here Come the Management Plans
Earlier this year, the Bears Ears Resource Management Plan dropped, outlining rules regarding camping, waste management, dogs, and, perhaps most controversially, fixed anchors for new routes across the monument, which includes, of course, Indian Creek. Jason Keith is a senior policy advisor at the Access Fund who has spent his career navigating the legal and relational fog of securing access for climbers across the country. He was deeply involved in the development of this plan and talks to us today about what it means for climbers today—and everyone going forward amid the uncertainty and chaos of the current administration.
But first, we talk about favorite mountain on earth, Everest, and why it's a such a slippery slope. Drones are coming for Sherpa jobs, but our hot take on this development might surprise you.
Our Final Bit is the Golden Shoals, a fiddle and guitar duo featuring Mark Kilianski and rock climber Amy Alvey. Check out the Show Notes for tour dates, website, and more!
Show Notes
New Rules at Indian Creek Are Now in Effect. Here’s What You Need to Know.
Bears Ears Resource Management Plan
Access Fund
Drones Will Do Some Schlepping for Sherpas on Mount Everest
Golden Shoals
Follow Golden Shoals and Amy Alvey on Instagram
Golden Shoals tour dates.
Get Bonus Episodes! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Mar 19, 2025 • 1h 28min
RunOut #144: Life After Competition: Hannah Schubert and Eating Disorders in Climbing
In this discussion, Austrian climber Hannah Schubert opens up about her journey through the competitive climbing world, detailing her battles with eating disorders. She emphasizes how the pressure of performance, silent cues from peers, and comments from coaches can create an invisible crisis. Hannah shares her breaking point and the long path to recovery, underscoring the importance of vulnerability and support within the climbing community. The conversation blends personal anecdotes with insights that resonate deeply for athletes facing mental health challenges.