In the 70s, the teenage years of Andy McCluskey and Paul Humphreys, one would have heard new music by word of mouth, from the music papers, and DJs like John Peel, and it is one of these channels that would have led the young Andy McCluskey in September 1975 to see Kraftwerk play at the Liverpool Empire. It's lazy to suggest that Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark were entirely influenced by Kraftwerk – both founder members were keen music lovers and had performed together in a band called The Id – but their debut single Electricity wears that influence  on its sleeve.There were some classic synthpop albums released in in 1980 and 1981 but in terms of maturity and sophistication, none came close to ‘Architecture and Morality’, OMD’s third album. McCluskey & Humphreys always did things there own way: "We kind of did songwriting in reverse. A lot of songwriters sit at the piano and hash out a melody and the chords first. With us, we start with a soundscape and crazy noises and quite often the song will land on top. We then realised we had a knack for a catchy tune".   OMD arguably took a wrong turn with their fourth album 'Dazzle Ships', released in 1983."We forgot to sugar coat the experiment. The album shipped Gold and returned Platinum, more copies were sent back than sold. It did scare us that it wasn't commercially successful. Even though our songs always start as experiments, we were conscious to keep it more commercial in order to rescue our career".  But even that record became a classic, eventually. Some 33 years on, in 2016, OMD played a triumphant show at London's Royal Albert Hall performing both Architecture and Morality and then Dazzle Ships back-to-back. That experience gave the band a new lease of life. 2017’s ‘The Punishment Of Luxury’ can arguably be confidently placed in the top three albums OMD had released to date. Almost forty years after they first got together, a band that was still adding to its finest work. The band's forthcoming album, ‘Bauhaus Staircase’ bodes well for their late blooming fifth decade and extended longevity. This, despite McCluskey's wisdom suggesting otherwise.  "It's usually dangerous and stupid to make a new album unless you are really going to invest in it. People tell us we're iconic and influential, so we don't want to fuck it up by making a shit album".The band can rest easy. After 45 years working in their own unique way, they and their fans find OMD on a roll. Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

So many bands have a complex relationship with their biggest songs (probably because they essentially set a one dimensional benchmark - that of popularity) but dealing with that and playing those songs like it’s the last time you ever will, is part of doing the work. The Doll’s most biggest song and most recent tour are no exception:“Robby convinced me, play Iris last. But that’s what bands do when they only have one big song! So everyone has to stick around and hear all the other songs before you get to the hit”. But you know what, it works, so we play Iris last”. Well when you have one of the biggest indie songs ever, that’s a good attitude to have.While to my mind, The Goo Goo Dolls are a classic album band, it is their chart-topping singles, including of course  "Iris," but also giants like "Name," "Slide," and "Black Balloon." These songs have helped define their legacy and will grow in perpetuity when it comes to streaming count. The Goo Goo Dolls' music is marked by catchy melodies, emotional lyrics, Rezeznik’s distinctive vocals, and a balance of acoustic and electric feel. Their ability to create relatable and timeless songs has contributed to their enduring popularity in the world of rock music. The band has developed nicely through the mists of time. When I ask Rezeznik how he would approach making a career in today’s industry, he gives me the same bemused answer as many guests do on The Art of Longevity: “I don’t think I would”. But he and his band have crossed the Rubicon and so his anxiety is instead projected onto the next generation of musicians forged from the same stuff i.e. focused on the music:“How much amazing music is not being heard because [TikTok] is the metric you have to use, to decide if an artist is viable or not. Through Tik Tok? Gimme a break”. “But that’s what worries me about the next generation of musicians - are they gonna be able to do that”? Being poor and famous, I’m not sure that’s gonna work”. That’s exactly what the “music business” is trying to figure out. Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

What better guest for this 50th episode of The Art of Longevity than metal’s renaissance man Corey Taylor? A modern legend of the heavy metal genre, Corey has no less than three successful music projects. He is probably best known as Slipknot’s #9 (lead vocals) but before he joined Slipknot, Taylor already had another established hard rock band, Stone Sour. I met Corey as he was about to release his second solo record CMF2. This multiple persona artist is a sort-of blueprint for music creators in this day & age. After all, to put all your creative eggs in one basket is not enough to succeed in today’s hyper-fragmented, super-saturated, ultra-competitive music market. No problem at all for Corey. The man has too many ideas and too much restless energy to fit into just one band, even if that happens to be one of the world’s biggest and most successful metal bands. So how does he do it?“I’m able to prioritise and focus to get the best out of me creatively. My appetite for art and creating is insatiable though - I’ve got so many things I want to do, it keeps me sane and grounded. I’m hyper-focused but I do things bit by bit. But maybe I’m also just a psycho”. One thing that struck me about Corey too, is his advocacy for metal - which comes within the broader context for his advocacy for music itself. Known in the past for “not being stingy with his opinions”, Taylor is deeply knowledgeable about his genre, as well as the wider industry in which metal is sometimes treated like Cinderella. “Some people would love to keep us [metal musicians] in boxes, and yet, if you are a pop star, you’re encouraged to hop from genre to genre like fuckin’ hopscotch. You can’t keep us back while pushing people into places we have every right to go as well. But we scare people too, the movers and shakers are intimidated by the level of talent in our genre. Metal musicians could wipe the floor with a lot of today’s pop stars”. It brings us back to CMF2, an album as eclectic (and also excellent) as you’ll find. Across its 13 tracks cover country, radio-friendly rock, brooding Bowie-esque ballads and hardcore punk throwback. And yes, some pretty exemplary songs from his metal heartland. The thread that runs through the eclectic collection is simple enough: “I wanted to honour the songwriters who made me what I am”. Job done, onto the next one...Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

Following the highly accomplished 2012 album Heaven, cult American indie band The Walkmen went on hiatus. But now they have reformed. In a recent interview with the band’s frontman Hamilton Leithauser, Vulture magazine referred to the now infamously long career break as “a particularly noticeable void”. I would go a lot further than that. I (and a million other fans) grieved the loss of The Walkmen, because in the indie landscape they offered something unique. The ramshackle but classic rock sound (could any band sound more analogue?). The authenticity of those songs. Hamilton Leithauser’s signature voice. Most bands have a manifesto to stand out from the rest, but The Walkmen didn’t need to say it - they were truly el differente. Hamilton didn’t know if anyone would remember or care much but he turned out to be wrong about that of course. The Walkmen’s legend has matured nicely in the intervening 10 years that they have been away. But the interesting thing is that culturally, the band never really went away. Their songs and fandom lived on through the extended break - even grew in their absence. This is perhaps the true miracle of music in the streaming era. Hamilton and the others were surprised and delighted to return to playing shows to loyal audiences both old and new, the younger fans among them singing every word of those old songs. In the modern music biz, when the talk is of “always-on” creation, 24/7 content and acute FOMO, maybe the most valuable move a band can make is to not succumb to any of that, but to instead have the nerve and the confidence to do what’s necessary - even if that is nothing. Hamilton puts the stresses of modern day bands into perspective though:“It’s exhausting physically and mentally - in the long run. After you’ve done a bunch of records you think “do I really wanna do another rock & roll record, no I don’t think I do”, then it becomes about what you really want to do next”. With six albums and some older EPs to perform, there is no need - not yet - for any meaningful discussion about new material by The Walkmen. But it is reassuring and exciting to know that Hamilton and bandmates haven’t ruled it out. For now we can be happy enough that a particularly noticeable void has been filled. Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

After he “couldn’t get arrested” in the 80s, post-grunge opened a window through which a then 30-year old Ron Sexsmith could climb. With his sincere, low-key ballads and simple songs straight from the heart, as was his 1995 self-titled debut. Produced by legend Mitchell Froom, it was a stripped back affair but also with the signature sounds of Froom and his engineer collaborator Tchad Blake (favourites of the crew here at The Art of Longevity). Those songs came as an antidote to the loudness of grunge and the hubris of Britpop. Sexsmith was a pioneer of a style that paved the way for a wave of troubadours including Teddy Thompson, Josh Ritter, Rufus Wainwright and many more. Of all places he was signed to Interscope - then one of the world’s biggest major labels. “They didn't really know what to do with me. They called me a ‘cred artist’. Someone who had good good reviews and they could point to and say - 'we’re not just pop' - so they could attract other real artists.”“I coasted on that for a while, but then around my third album (Whereabouts, 1999) I saw that it didn’t mean anything to them any more. To have an artist that was just good to have around”. And so that early run came to an inevitable end as Ron was slammed into the wall of the ‘dropped artist’. By then though, he was into stride as a songwriter. No longer an apprentice to those amazing producers he has worked with, he was on his way to mastering the craft. Indeed, these days he describes himself as more of a problem solver than a songwriter. This songcraft is what connects Sexsmith to the greats. When I mention to him that Spotify pays him a compliment when its continuously play/radio function will follow one of his songs with Nick Lowe, Nick Drake or some other legend, his response is modest yet enlightening. “Well I didn’t know that but one of the nicest things anyone ever said about me was what Randy Newman told Mitchell (Froom) that “I like Ron because he does the work”. And I thought, yeah that’s true, I do do the work. That’s what I try to do and for the most part. There’s not a song I could play you where I’d think the song is terrible”.That's because none of them are. May I strongly suggest you sit back and enjoy the fruits of Ron Sexsmith’s labour.Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

For Ben Folds, coming back on the scene with a new studio album feels like a breeze, literally:“I Feel like the expectations are lowered but I have the wind on my back”.In June 2023 Ben releases What Matters Most, his fifth studio album and his first in over six years, almost an ice age in today’s breathless music biz. But part of the reason and the joy it has taken him so damn long to make, is a focus on the craft that is part of Folds’ raison d'être as a musician some three decades into a professional career.“I have carried a tradition of craft, that is not easily come by, in an era when it was always going away, until now” It might sound cocky to say that this is a lesson in songwriting but I dunno, it is.”This is coming from someone who in the past decade has committed part of his career to promoting and campaigning for better music education. Come to think of it, a conversation with Ben Folds is a music education class in itself. His role as music scholar and teacher is now part of his legacy but his contribution to music is easily underestimated. For starters he sandblasted a music scene that in the mid-90s was dominated by grunge, Britpop and pretty soulless boy & girl band pop. And he did it with a fucking piano. Aided and abetted of course by belting bass (Robert Sledge) and drums (Darren Jessee) combo that made up Ben Folds Five - a refreshingly guitar-free rock band. After the trio disbanded following the usual music industry roller coaster ride (a familiar story beautifully told in Fold’s 2019 book A Dream About Lightning Bugs) Folds went solo - sometimes quite literally. He made ‘sustainable touring’ a thing, by going on the road with himself and a piano. That’s something now essential for bands in the mid-tier - the so called “working class musician” - to tour with a minimalist set up. Fold’s truly took to it - improvising and bantering with the audience - even creating a song (Bitches Ain’t Shit) that became a sort of regrettable classic. He found the experience scary but took his inspiration from James Booker. “I was playing standing places - rock venues. I was shaking in my boots the first time I went out on tour like that, but I felt the need to do it”.Folds is a pioneering independent artist. He called the creative shots even when first signed to a major label imprint with Ben Folds Five. He paid for vinyl masters to some of his albums knowing full well it would come out of his royalty account. He was an early adopter of the direct to fan model with his Patreon site, recently expanded to include a private Discord channel. It’s very much the modern fan-centred business model for up & coming artists these days. Through it all, Folds is one of those artists that can always rely on the ability to write a song. It’s something that has seen him through the thick & thin years as he transitioned from a band to a solo career and then later as he expanded into soundtracks and orchestral works.That songcraft is firmly intact on What Matters Most on songs such as Back To Anonymous, Winslow Gardens and Kristine From the 7th Grade. But Folds can strategize the biz side too these days, and his plan is to make this new album an event. “I know we’re making movies in a way when we make records but I wanted to make a record that you could date on all counts. The event is powerful, because you are either expressing an ideal, a design - or you are expressing an event”. Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

Asking John Grant to describe the essence of the record he is working on now, elicits a response that fascinates from the get go. “I’m trying to marry the vibe of Blade Runner with - wait a minute - let me go and get this movie [shows me Tetsu The Iron Man]. I want to blend Sonic Youth with Blade Runner, Evil Dead and Halloween 3”. John was struggling to articulate a few things on the day we met, including the one word essence of this new album project, but I’m going to guess the word that he was looking for was cyberpunk. If you don’t know it, Tetsuo: The Iron Man is a 1989 Japanese tokusatsu cyberpunk body horror film created (as in written, produced, edited, and directed) by Shinya Tsukamoto. It’s insane and unlike any other movie made then or now. It’s an auteur’s project and that sums up John Grant better than anything else. The man has a singular vision and for that we can be grateful. We do not want John Grant by way of compromise! And then there is Blade Runner, which I’m guessing you are more familiar with. Ridley Scott’s 1982 cult classic is an anchor point for Grant, who is influenced by those sweeping, cosmic valve-synth Vangelis soundscapes that cropped up so fully formed on his last album Boy From Michigan - a high watermark record that John feels is only just finished, yet is already almost two years old. In today’s music biz, two years is an awfully long time. But then, making the follow-up to Boy From Michigan is not a trivial undertaking. Creativity in John Grant’s particular zone of avant garde pop is not an environment in which you can simply turn up at the office and turn on the tap. His world is not always a well-oiled machine. “Guy Garvey told me that creativity is like a pipeline that you have to keep flowing, even if it’s just to flush the shit out before you can get to the good stuff”.I do love it when artists listen to artists. Thing is, it doesn’t happen enough. For the time being however, if you cannot wait too long for more from John - good news. Grant’s alternative supergroup Creep Show brings a welcome escape from the weight of the world - for him and for us. New album Yawning Abyss is due for release June 2023. Creep Show is a wonderful collaboration. With a name inspired by George A. Romero and Stephen King’s 1982 film and novel, Creep Show brings together John Grant with the dark analogue-electro of Wrangler (Stephen Mallinder / Phil Winter  and Benge, the latter producing Grant’s 2018 album Love Is Magic). The Creep Show project deserves every bit the success achieved by Gorillaz, in a parallel universe in which all music is judged on listenability. Who could not listen to this man's voice?Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

What’s more important in securing a band’s longevity - hit songs or a classic album? I put this question to Meegan and Allison Closner (the twin sisters that make up two-thirds of Joseph along with their sister Natalie Closner Schepman). Their answer seemed clear enough. For Joseph, it’s all about the album. So, is the band’s new album The Sun a classic? Only time will tell. Personally, I resisted any notion of hearing the record before its release. My orange ‘sun’ vinyl is in the post and I will listen to it just as one should, as the needle drops on side one track one (Waves Crash). I do have faith that Joseph can make a classic however - because they have already done it once before. I first discovered Joseph’s music by way of a complete and very happy accident. I had sat down briefly with the head of an indie label, and as I often do, I asked the question “who should I be listening to?”. His reply was both immediate and singular: “Joseph”. Okay then - easy to remember at least. I later fired up Spotify and typed the word Joseph into the search bar and there they were. Joseph - an Americana band of three sisters from Joseph, Oregon. I’m always surprised when I don’t know a band in this genre - and Joseph had just released their third L.P. Good Luck Kid. And the album is a belter. Just fantastic Americana-country-pop. Wholly accessible but ambitious and expansive. It’s everything an Americana album should be - if not a concept album, then a start-to-finish cohesive piece of work. Good Luck Kid ended up as my favourite album from 2019 and so the band’s fourth album The Sun comes with a sense of high anticipation.Then, Allison & Meegan told me about working with Tucker Martine and recording The Sun in his Flora studios in Portland, which ups the stakes about as high as they can get for a new record to my ears. But, what does it mean to make a classic album in 2023?Rick Rubin is keen to point out that the creation of a record is not a competition, and who are we to argue with the master builder of records? And yet, how can it not be a competitive situation in some ways, with scores of albums - really good ones - released week-in, week-out. The obvious answer is to compete with yourself and let others in as inspiration.As Meegan says:“We’ve taken in the classic bands we’ve come across in our adulthood, The Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac - who would not be influenced by those”. “But [with this album] we keep asking ourselves the question, do we like this? This has to be us. “I hope that we’ve made an album that lasts through time.”Joseph have already done it once, so what’s stopping them doing it again? Every band aspiring to be the real deal deserves their moment in the sun, maybe The Sun will be Joseph’s time. (an extended write-up appears on songsommelier.com)Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

In this episode of the Art of Longevity, we have the pleasure of chatting with Stuart Braithwaite, a member of the internationally renowned post-rock band Mogwai. Known for their masterful use of crescendos, Mogwai have been making music since 1995, with 11 studio albums that have gained increasing popularity over time, with their latest 'As The Love Continues' reaching the lofty milestone of #1 in the UK album chart.Stuart's recently published autobiography, 'Spaceships Over Glasgow,' offers an insightful exploration of the band's progression and key periods of their journey. Though they never consciously planned for their success, Stuart shares some valuable insights into how artists can remain relevant and popular over a long period of time. “I can’t see any of this as conscious…’ We weren't expecting to be making 5/ 6 albums, never mind 10/11”.Despite the resolute lack of long-term planning, Stuart and his merry band have become masters of the music long game. One key takeaway is the importance of confident incremental steps and staying true to the original values that inspired them to pursue music. Stuart notes that some bands lose their edge by changing their sound to fit a particular trend, while Mogwai remained steadfast in their approach.Maybe they are simply building to the crescendo that destroys all crescendos!Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/

Being a longevous, ‘real deal’ music artist requires many things, but being pure in heart is certainly one. And there are few people on this earth as pure in heart as Rickie Lee Jones. With the completion of Last Chance Texaco in 2019 (her brilliantly evocative and critically revered addition to the vast ‘rock memoir’ library) Rickie Lee permitted herself to look back to those early days and draw new inspiration from them. “Before I finished that book, I was burdened, but when it was done I began to shed my fears. I am 68 years old and you cannot scare me any more”.The resulting first studio album release since then is Pieces Of Treasure, Rickie Lee’s versions of a selection of American songbook classics including Nature Boy, September Song, Sunny Side of the Street and no less than two iconic Sinatra numbers. The success of this album is in the way Rickie Lee finds her way to occupy these well-travelled songs.But, this being The Art of Longevity, I want to know about the bad times as well as the good. And Rickie Lee Jones has had more than her fair share of years in the wilderness. By her 90s records (Pop Pop, Traffic From Paradise and Ghostyhead ) Rickie Lee’s career showed the classic curve for established artists, of high critical acclaim but steadily reduced commercial success. Even after a minor resurgence in the 2000s (beginning with the superb Evening Of My Best Day), a further decade of being largely forgotten left Rickie Lee broke and unable to find a record label to release new music. How did she get through that time?“I thought, maybe this was payment for having so much success so fast. It’s a kids game and there are many many new young artists coming up at any time. The thing is to teach the audience that you are not just a pop artist but that you are a real musician”. We listeners, have a lot to learn!Support the showGet more related content at: https://www.songsommelier.com/