

Transformative Principal
Jethro Jones
Jethro Jones interviews instructional leaders from around the nation to learn and teach what it takes to become a transformative principal. Episodes address topics like Response to Intervention (RTI), Multi-Tiered System of Support (MTSS), Positive Behavior Interventions and Supports (PBIS), the latest advances in educational research, standards-based grading, and interviews with industry leaders like Bill Daggett, Rick Wormeli, Todd Whitaker and even people outside the education like Seth Godin, JeVon McCormick, Liz Wiseman, and more.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 8, 2025 • 39min
Reject the Premise Part 2
In this episode, Jethro Jones and guest Danny Bauer delve into the evolution of their collaboration on the 'Reject the Premise' book idea, discussing its transformation into a podcast series and the subsequent book writing process. They share valuable leadership lessons on knowing when to push forward and when to step back, highlight the drawbacks of feedback sandwiches, and emphasize the importance of not writing off people prematurely. They reject traditional premises such as 'operate in isolation,' advocating for a supportive network, and 'give feedback sandwiches,' encouraging honest, inquisitive communication. A poignant discussion on finding the right place for staff members underlines the episode's focus on empathetic and effective leadership.00:00 Introduction and Host Welcome00:49 The Book That Almost Wasn't01:07 Resurrecting the Idea as a Podcast02:08 Leadership Lessons from Letting Go03:06 The Importance of Being in Flow04:05 If You Don't Like Someone, Move Them Out10:43 The Custodian Story14:38 Feedback Sandwiches Don't Work19:29 Effective Feedback Strategies20:18 Challenging and Supporting Superstars22:12 The Importance of a Support Network25:27 Personal Experiences and Insights34:18 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Jun 1, 2025 • 30min
The Evolution of Trust-Based Observations with Craig Randall
In this episode, Jethro D. Jones welcomes back Craig Randall to discuss the evolution of trust-based observations and its impact on improving teaching and learning. Craig shares insights from his podcast '20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)' and delves into the challenges and strategies for writing and implementing effective educational practices.Nerding about the writing process. When the idea comes, you’ve got to take it. How Trust-Based Observations has evolved. You learn something new every single week. Coaching model vs. Trust-Based ObservationsWe have blind spots, if we leave it to that model, we may not have the solution they need. Cumulatively add the activities to the lesson to show the most learning. Intensive training, really goes deep. Don’t offer suggestions until the fourth visit because we haven’t built enough trust. Asking permission to offer a suggestion. Observation form available on the web site. 9 areas of pedagogy hasn’t changed. Relational trust hasn’t changed. TBO is collective teacher efficacy in actionHow we lower vulnerability to get people to take risks is by building trust. Craig’s podcast - 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)Craig was last on my podcast in 2021! Here’s his podcast episode. And someone even did a dissertation on TBO.About Craig RandallCraig Randall is developing relational trust between principals and teachers, leading to risk-taking and growth. Author of Trust-Based ObservationsTrust-Based Observations, a book about a transformative method of doing teacher observations. In a nutshell the book and model are designed to help show administrators how to build trusting differentiated relationships with each of their teachers such that teachers are willing to work through uncomfortable feelings of vulnerability and embrace taking big risks to grow their practice. The model also directly connects the observation process to annual action research goals and schoolwide professional development through the creation of professional development communities tied directly to TBO areas of pedagogy.

May 25, 2025 • 36min
Generative Instruction with Linda Berberich, PhD.
In this episode of Transformative Principal, Jethro Jones interviews Linda Berberich, a behavioral scientist, about her extensive experience in machine learning before it became a buzzword. They discuss the practical applications of artificial intelligence in education, the pros and cons of using technology like GPT models in learning environments, and the importance of integrating technology thoughtfully based on the specific needs and culture of a school.AI is such a buzzword but it’s really just machine learningBuilt many solutions to virtual learningWhat technology is really good at is computingCycle motor learning - good formToo much memorizing Far transfer vs. Near-transfer (Ruth Clark) and organic vs. mechanistic skillsStandardizable tasks are mechanistic. The way you perform is how you train. Complex and Simple tasks.Skewed responses. How to know when to use a computer (AI, Machine Learning) for learning. Attempts to make the machine more empatheticJethro’s example of writing using two different GPTs to writeNarrow the field and expand the field. Grades have a massive impact on peoples’ lives, so we can’t ditch that.Ideas around what school looks like. Use the time for kids to be together pro-socially. Generative InstructionTeachers know this stuff! Using Technology to get kids interested in Don’t be afraid of technology or of letting kids lead. About Linda Berberich, PhD.Behavioral scientist specializing in innovative, impactful, and immersive learning and intelligent, intuitive technology product design. Extensive background in data analysis, technical training, behavior analysis, learning science, neuroscience, behavior-based performance improvement, and sport psychology/performance enhancement.Passionate lifelong learner who is constantly up-skilling, most recently in the areas of:solopreneurship, technology-based networking, writing business cases for corporate-wide initiatives, design thinking, agile/scrum methodology, data science, deep learning, machine learning, and other areas of artificial intelligence, particularly as they intersect with human learning and performance.Follow her newsletter at Linda Be Learning.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

May 20, 2025 • 44min
Everyone is an Education Journalist with Charles Sosnik
In this episode, Jethro Jones discusses the nuances of education journalism with Charles Sosnik. Together, they explore the differences between news reporting and education journalism, the impact of political agendas on education, the role of blogs and podcasts in the industry, and the importance of including diverse voices in education media. They also delve into the responsibilities of parents versus educators, the necessity to inspire a love for learning, and how to effectively share wisdom and experiences through various media platforms.Education journalism is about talking about big ideasIt’s about voices, but so manyDistraction vs. actually educating our kidsDrop your kids off and 13 years later you Education is the responsibility of the parents, but the state stepsOur kids aren’t digging what we’re giving them. Why people are in education. Teaching vs. learningRelevance. We have the opportunity to change the world, You have a responsibility to get your voice out there. Publications to be a part of: https://thelearningcounsel.com/https://et-mag.com/https://edu-ai.org/https://www.ednewsdaily.com/ Southeast education network magazineYou can make a big impactYour voice matters, get it out there. About Charles SosnikCharles Sosnik is a writer in American Education with 40 years in media. He is the Editor and Publisher for education publications including ET Magazine and Educate AI Magazine, and an Editor at Learning Counsel. Additionally, he serves as a ghost writer for some of America’s top voices (but that’s a secret, can’t tell you who!) and sits on the Board of the (soon to be) new Education Media Association.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

May 11, 2025 • 25min
The SchoolX Book Study with Shenita Perry
In this episode, host Jethro Jones welcomes Shenita Perry, an assistant principal from Montgomery Public Schools, Alabama. They discuss the unique challenges of educating gifted students, Shenita's experience with the SchoolX book study, and valuable insights on empathy and perspective in education. Shenita also shares practical advice for transformative leadership.Magnet Middle School Academically and artistically gifted childrenAwkwardness of being middle schoolers and gifted can be challengingPrincipal Matters ListenersThe School Experience vs the Traditional ExperienceDesign thinking processWhat does the school look like through the other peoples’ viewpoints. Treating kids as if they’re not human. We forget the humanity of every other part. Day to day work - Looking at things through other peoples’ eye. How to be a transformative principal? Have a listening ear and an open eye to see from different perspectives. Listen to understand instead of listening to respond. Join the book study here.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

May 6, 2025 • 37min
A Doctorate in Character Education with Melinda Bier
In this episode of Transformative Principal, host Jethro Jones welcomes Dr. Melinda Bier, the Theresa M. Fisher Endowed Professor for citizenship education at the University of Missouri St. Louis. They discuss the character education program, the impact of a national cohort, and faculty changes during the pandemic. They also delve into the design of the new cohort at UMSL, the importance of practical learning, and the integration of character education and social emotional learning into school leadership.Having a national cohort, online only programReally interesting what people learned from each otherThe design of the programAdaptive to the needs of studentsUrban university with a historyLoss of faculty membersModeling is an important part of our theoretical basisNext cohort - character development, social-emotional learning, and leadershipFaculty team to walk through this with people. Who You are is More Important with Tom Hoerr Transformative Principal 224Formative Five with Tom Hoerr Transformative Principal 225Chief Empathy Officer with Dr. Tom Hoerr Transformative Principal 495Character Education is a focus on the whole personAdults need to model the behaviors they want to see in the kids. Kids need opportunities to experience all the virtues. Use your power for the common good. Kids get gains in academics when you start with character. Schools have changed a lot over the last few years. Dissertation in Practice is a different kind of dissertationRetrospective pretest. About Mindy BierMindy Bier is currently the Teresa M. Fischer Endowed Professor for Citizenship Education at University of Missouri, St. Louis. Mindy’s expertise spans the fields of Character Education, teacher preparation and professional development, and the design and use of instructional technology for enhanced teaching and learning. She has extensive experience in the adoption of K-12 educational innovations, providing and managing professional development for geographically and culturally diverse teachers, and in the philanthropic sector. Mindy is the principal investigator for a series of cross-disciplinary service learning projects that address the social determinants of health disparities called Youth Empowerment in Action (YEA!)
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Apr 27, 2025 • 48min
Stop Wasting Teacher Time: Local Curriculum Empowers Real Learning with Emily Makelky
Are your teachers overwhelmed with busywork and disconnected mandates? In this episode of Transformative Principal, Jethro Jones sits down with Emily Makelky, Vice President of the Curriculum Leadership Institute, to tackle the real problem facing schools: how to create a meaningful, locally-developed curriculum that actually improves teaching and learning.Discover:The difference between curriculum, standards, and resources (and why it matters)Why local, district-wide curriculum is essential for student and teacher successHow to involve teachers in meaningful work that energizes them (not just more paperwork)The role of principals in supporting—not micromanaging—curriculum developmentHow to keep curriculum relevant, flexible, and focused on what students really needWhether you’re a principal, teacher, or education leader, you’ll walk away with practical ideas to make curriculum work for your school community.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Apr 20, 2025 • 40min
Using AI Layering to Create Hyper-Localized Curriculum with Brent Zirkel
In this episode, Jethro Jones interviews Brent Zirkel, the elementary principal at Mary Welsh Elementary in Williamsburg, Iowa. They discuss how Brent is utilizing artificial intelligence to create curriculum tailored for his students. The conversation covers a range of topics including the advantages of AI in organizing content, creating engaging learning activities, and facilitating high-level thinking. Brent shares his experiences and insights on curating educational materials that resonate with both students and the community, and the importance of transparency in education.Importance of curriculum being transparentMaking sure parents know exactly what we are teaching. Web sites for classroom. If you put yourself out there in the public, it motivates you to create more and better things. https://Raidersocialstudies.com AI makes it easier to organize your thoughts and put it in a systemic way. 80/20 in work usage. Middle East UnitGives kids deeper ways to understand what is going on in the world. Not getting kids to understand facts and dates. Helping kids understand and perceive the world and make judgments. American values and patriotism are very important to our community. When you arm teachers with good curriculum you can have good discussions. Greater freedom in the discussion point because it is a discussion, not a “lesson”. Layering with AI - Using multiple technologies that wouldn’t be possible with just one AI. AI Tools used: Suno (music), ChatGPT (art & more), MagicSchool (make it relevant), SchoolAI, assessmentsAI Tools are thought partners. How to be a transformative principal? Good Better Best, Never Let it rest till your good is better and your better is your best. About Brent Zirkel:Brent Zirkel is currently the Elementary Principal at Mary Welsh Elementary in Williamsburg, Iowa, a school of about 650 students. He also serves as the district ELL Director, Migratory Education Program Director, and Preschool Program Director. Brent has previously served as the Associate Principal at Williamsburg Jr/Sr. High School (7-12) and Fort Madison Middle School (4-8). Brent taught Spanish at Fort Madison High School for 12 years where he was honored for 5 consecutive years with the Terry Branstad Inspiring Teacher Award for serving as a motivational force to some of Iowa’s top-performing high school students. He has a BA in Geography and Spanish Education, an MS in Interdisciplinary Studies with an emphasis in Bilingual Education (ELL), and is certified as a Pre-K-12 Administrator and Special Education Supervisor.Brent is also a co-founder of the Test Kitchen Educational Foundation: a non-profit organization that creates innovative after-school programming for rural communities in Iowa by getting youth excited about learning through engagement in academics, culinary arts, and valuable life skills. Brent is married to Michelle, a K-6 Media Teacher, and has two children, Brevin (16) and Bram (10). Brent enjoys spending time with his family. He is an avid fan of Survivor, the TV show, and is a true believer in progress through struggle. Brent sees education as the greatest opportunity to build a better tomorrow by positively impacting the lives of his students today.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Apr 13, 2025 • 33min
Building Trust Through Formative Supervision with Dr. Valerie Dehombreux
In this episode, Jethro Jones interviews Dr. Valerie Dehombreux, an experienced educator and school principal who recently completed her doctorate in leadership and innovation. They discuss her dissertation on the trust-based observation protocol and its application, providing valuable insights for both her work and Jethro’s own doctoral process.Started as a 3rd grade teacher on the white mountain apache reservation. Engaging in an intervention that is solving a problem of practice. You can just do stuff! Valerie adopted his book and implemented it. Literature review - showed how his approach was good. Chose 4 research questions because they were all important. Open-ended interview questions. Formative interviews along the way. Mixed-methods approach. Reflective conversations are so powerful. How to be a transformative principal? Start talking and meeting with your teachers. About:Dr. Valerie Dehombreux has been a PreK-12 educator for 27 years including 15 as a school principal and 22 years in providing teacher training and professional development. Valerie holds Arizona superintendent, principal, and teacher certifications with two endorsements: Early Childhood and English as a Second Language. In 2019 as principal of McDowell Mountain Elementary School in the Fountain Hills Unified School District, Valerie led the school community in achieving an Arizona Educational Foundation A+ School of Excellence™ award for the first time in the school’s and district’s history. In December 2024, Valerie graduated with an EdD in Leadership and Innovation from Arizona State University. It is a unique, 3 ½-year cohort program that follows the Carnegie Project on the Education Doctorate (CPED) model where practitioners identify a Problem of Practice (PoP) in their work place settings and conduct cycles of action research to implement innovations/interventions seeking to address the PoP and to build up to the culminating experience of the final dissertation. Valerie’s action research explored formative teacher supervision’s effects on trusting administrator–teacher relationships and teachers’ professional growth.
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.

Apr 8, 2025 • 28min
School Improvement Through Integrated Special Education with Dr. Kate Anderson Foley
In this episode, Jethro Jones interviews Dr. Kate Anderson Foley, founder and CEO of the Education Policy and Practice Group. They discuss the integral role of special education in school improvement, the double helix approach to support systems, and the importance of tailoring instruction to student needs. Dr. Foley shares insights on the necessity of breaking down silos in education and promoting a student-centered approach that prepares learners for adult life.Tight instruction specifically for special education students. Double HelixDesigning lessons that are comprehensively situating the adults and students.Almost half a million students are identified as special education. Ban the Tiers! Nimble and responsive instruction. Not working in isolation anymore. Double Helix as a replacement for the RTI/MTSSStrength-based system - foundation of school improvement process. High expectations of staff. Accountability is measured by evidence of impact. Data that is used to inform and adjust. Shared accountability. Collaboratively working on improvement. Discussion about explicit instruction vs. non-explicit instruction. Blooms and scaffolding. The scaffolding needs to be doneHow do we scaffold that skill so they demonstrate it in novel ways? Explicit instruction is 15 minutes and then you transfer that skill. Understand the concept of AM & PM. About Dr. Foley:Kate Anderson Foley, Ph.D.Founder & CEO of the Education Policy & Practice Group, International Keynote, McLean Affiliate of Harvard Medical School Institute of Coaching Fellow, Thought Partner, Author. Kate Anderson Foley is a transformational leader with significant experience leading public school districts and states toward equitable and integrated services for all learners. Her work has been grounded in social justice and breaking down barriers for children who have historically been marginalized. She has led organizational change utilizing a strategic framework that ensured guaranteed and rigorous learning leading to college and career readiness for all students.Kate began her career as a special education teacher pioneering inclusive practices for students at risk and with disabilities. Her work focused on creating conditions that fostered high expectations of adults for students and innovation which catalyzed equitable opportunities for each learner. Kate's deep commitment to creating nimble and responsive systems that supported the whole child led her into administration where she advocated for local, state, and federal reform. That experience with large-scale reform led to improved academic and social-emotional outcomes for students, fair funding models, innovative healthcare models, and efficient operations. As a senior educational leader for the State of Illinois, Kate's vision of fulfilling the promise of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act was nested within the Every Student Succeeds Act. She was an expert contributor to the State Plan where the deficit-based system was interrupted and a preventative and nimble system was created that intentionally addressed opportunity gaps of all learners, regardless of background or circumstance. Her deep understanding of equity-based school funding also contributed to a legislative reform model for the state of Illinois. As the founder and CEO of The Education Policy & Practice Group, Kate partners with local, state, national, and international organizations, education agencies, and various industries providing her expertise with the improvement process, professional learning communities, strategic planning, asset-based education policies and practices, special education, coaching, and consulting. Kate is a Roslyn Wolf Lecturer with the Levin College of Public Affairs in Urban Education. Kate teaches a graduate-level Special Education Law course to aspiring superintendents and principals. Kate works closely with senior leadership across various sectors providing executive coaching aimed at creating growth-minded organizational cultures (www.edpolicyconsulting.com). Kate is the author of numerous articles and books including Ida Finds Her Voice and Fearless Coaching. Kate's new book, Radically Excellent School Improvement: Keeping Students at the Center of it All presents a model for ambitious improvement and tireless focus that ensures every student grows, thrives, and achieves to their fullest potential. It provides district and school leaders with a bold blueprint for designing,implementing, and monitoring a comprehensive school improvement process for radical excellence (https://us.corwin.com/books/radical-excellence-289045).
LinkedLeaders: You need support. Get just-in-time mentoring at LinkedLeaders.comWe’re thrilled to be sponsored by IXL. IXL’s comprehensive teaching and learning platform for math, language arts, science, and social studies is accelerating achievement in 95 of the top 100 U.S. school districts. Loved by teachers and backed by independent research from Johns Hopkins University, IXL can help you do the following and more:Simplify and streamline technologySave teachers’ timeReliably meet Tier 1 standardsImprove student performance on state assessments🚀 Ready to see why leading districts trust IXL for their educational needs? Visit IXL.com/BE today to learn more about how IXL can elevate your school or district.