Our guest today is a true legal tech expert—Dennis Kennedy, director of the Center for Law, Technology and Innovation at Michigan State University College of Law. Dennis first saw the potential that technology had for advancing the legal industry when he started using computer tools in his estate and tax practice. He went on to work in house at MasterCard, where he focused on information technology and supported the company’s mobile wallet, API, and Labs business groups. For more than 20 years, Dennis has been an advisor and consultant on innovation, legal technology, and productization. Since 2015, he has been a law professor, helping his students explore nontraditional career paths in legal tech. Additionally, Dennis has written hundreds of articles on topics such as legal technology, innovation, and law practice management, as well as co-authored four books. He is also a frequent speaker and has co-hosted The Kennedy-Mighell Report podcast with attorney Tom Mighell for over a decade. Today, Dennis talks to us about his journey from an estate and tax practice to legal tech, being one of the first attorneys with a professional website, how he creates a sense of value around technology in law school, and his thoughts on recent advancements in artificial intelligence.

Today we speak with John Alber—retired lawyer, businessperson, and legal futurist. Like many of our guests, John’s career path has taken some fascinating turns. He was a partner at Bryan Cave LLP when he was given the opportunity to buy a company, which ultimately became Alber Leland, Inc., a database and software publisher in the transportation sector. John would later return to Bryan Cave as Strategic Innovation Partner—one of the first in the industry—applying his business skills and experience to find innovative ways for the firm to deliver legal services through new technology. Over time, he developed what we now might consider one of the first captive ALSPs. Additionally, John was a futurist for the International Legal Technology Association, where he served as a consultant on different programs and helped the organization focus on business strategies. Today, John dedicates himself to conservation in Florida, particularly the Apalachicola River, which has been called America's most endangered wild river. In our conversation, John tells us about his experience innovating at Bryan Cave, the ways he convinced lawyers to adopt technology, the advice he would give to legal professionals on tech and innovation, and his recent conservation efforts.

As the current discussion around the hot topic of ChatGPT evidences, legal technology is constantly evolving and developing. This results in a level of complexity and confusion for both legal organizations and tech companies as they try to stay competitive. One of the people helping them navigate these waters is Zach Abramowitz, founder of Killer Whale Strategies. A former M&A attorney, Zach founded the company in 2019, with the goals of facilitating connections between law firms and tech companies, and assisting with their strategic decisions and investments. Zach’s interest in legal tech goes beyond his work at Killer Whale Strategies. He is an advisory board member at LegalMation, and he frequently blogs about the impact of technology on the legal industry. In our conversation, Zach talks about maintaining professional relationships through virtual meetings, what he looks for in clients and investment opportunities, and his thoughts on the potential impact of generative AI on the legal industry.

Today’s guest is Paula Davis, founder and CEO of the Stress & Resilience Institute, which helps legal professionals and teams manage stress and avoid burnout. Paula entered the legal profession as a real estate attorney, but facing burnout herself, she ultimately left her practice to pursue a master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. There she began working in a program for the US Army, helping teach senior NCOs, officers, and other Army leaders and their families techniques to build resiliency. In 2013, she founded the Stress & Resilience Institute, where she has taught thousands of legal professionals and legal leaders tools associated with building individual, team, and organizational resilience by drawing on scientific studies and data. Additionally, Paula is a writer on topics such as stress management, burnout prevention, and hybrid teaming, frequently appearing in publications around the globe. She has also authored and co-authored a number of books and e-books. In today’s discussion, Paula tells us about being a self-described “recovering perfectionist,” how she defines resilience and burnout, and how legal organizations can maintain a sense of belonging in hybrid working environments, which both helps to build resilience and prevent burnout in law. In light of the growing complexity of the legal industry—and the stress associated with it, this is a timely and informative conversation.

Today we are joined by David Cunningham, chief innovation officer at Reed Smith and founder of Legal Metrics. David began driving change in the legal industry many years ago—first working with legal professionals as a tech strategy consultant for law firms, drawing on his business background to help clients improve their practices. David went on to become chief information officer at Winston & Strawn, where he created the firm’s strategies and oversaw its innovation efforts. He also founded Legal Metrics, a company that helps legal departments and law firms calculate and benchmark legal operations metrics to ensure excellence in diversity, as well as other business metrics important to legal departments. Today, David is chief innovation officer at Reed Smith, the first person to ever hold this position at the firm. There he has led initiatives such as the Innovation Lab, a program that identifies new ways of delivering legal services—and helps attorneys adopt those practices. In our discussion, David tells us about the lessons he learned as a consultant and how he applies them to his current position, the value of hiring an anthropologist at a law firm, and what excites him about the future of legal tech.

Today's episode takes a break from our usual format. Last week, Steve Poor participated in a webinar hosted by the Association of Corporate Counsel (ACC) Law Department Management Network (LDMN) about the implications of ChatGPT with Khurram Gore of Verizon, and Amy Yeung of Sallie Mae. Khurram has a deep background in technology and innovation, focusing on the intersection of law, technology, and business. At Verizon, he leads legal for their chief product development officer and the technology development organization, including Verizon’s 5G Labs, innovation partnerships, augmented reality and virtual reality business, and emerging tech groups. In addition to other outside activities, Khurram is also the entrepreneur in residence at the Stevens Venture Center for the Stevens Institute of Technology. Amy, who moderated the conversation, is a technology executive and thought leader with extensive experience in disruptive technology, digital innovation, and other strategic initiatives across all company life cycles. She has a track record of success in transformation, technology products counseling and B2B and B2C settings, leading significant operational initiatives strategy, data governance, and data architecture, among other things. In this conversation, we focus on the basics of ChatGPT and its potential impact on the legal industry, as well as the shortcomings of the program. The speakers’ insights give a valuable perspective on the implications of generative AI broadly, as well as ChatGPT in particular. We have edited the conversation for clarity.

Today we speak with Alma Asay, senior director of Practice Innovation and Client Value at Crowell & Moring. Alma’s interest in innovation began while she was a litigator at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, using technology to improve efficiency for the firm’s clients. Without any experience in the technology industry or as an entrepreneur, she founded Allegory, a cloud-based litigation management platform that delivers services and insights across the entire litigation spectrum. The story of her journey with Allegory is a fascinating one of challenges, successes, and enormous perseverance. In 2017, Integreon bought the company, making Alma the first female founder to have a legal technology business acquired. At Crowell & Moring, Alma has built the firm’s innovation department, where she and her team address technology and legal operations needs. In today’s discussion, Alma talks to us about the lessons she learned in starting a company, the advice she shares with women entrepreneurs, and the impact her traveling experiences have had on her professional life.

Today we are joined by Catherine Alman MacDonagh, a lawyer, entrepreneur, and CEO and founder of the Legal Lean Sigma Institute. Catherine started her legal career as director of corporate marketing for Counsel Connect, a first-of-its-kind social network platform for attorneys. After several roles in marketing and business development at law firms, she founded the Legal Sales and Service Organization, where she developed the Legal Lean Sigma Institute. The Institute was formed out of Catherine’s interest in “harnessing the power of teams.” She believes that change management can help address matters such as DEI, the war for talent, and improving employee and client experiences. Catherine has also founded the Coalition of Professional Services Providers and co-founded Legal Sustainability and Social Impact. Additionally, she is the chief enthusiasm officer and co-founder of The Legal Mocktail, a program that teaches legal professionals the skills of networking through fun simulation exercises. In our discussion, Catherine tells us about how she was introduced to Lean and Six Sigma, how she confronts attorney skepticism toward change management, and what being a chief enthusiasm officer means to her.

Today’s guest is Kunoor Chopra, a true pioneer in the legal industry and vice president of Legal Services at Elevate, a law company providing software and services for the intersection of business and law. A litigator by training at Am Law 50 firms, she made the transition into legal services outsourcing when she founded LawScribe, one of the pioneer alternative legal service providers in the industry. She made the leap to founder in 2004—before the term ALSP was even born. Kunoor’s move from Am Law 50 to founder is not unusual now, but it was unheard of 19 years ago. After selling the company to UnitedLex, she co-founded Elevate with entrepreneur Liam Brown. As a lesbian South Asian woman, Kunoor wanted to create a place where people can bring their authentic selves to work, and she fulfilled this vision by co-founding Elevate. For more than a decade, Elevate’s legal, business, and technology professionals have offered practical ways for global law departments and law firms to improve efficiency, quality, and business outcomes. Additionally, she is a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, focusing on innovation and transformation in legal services delivery. In our conversation, Kunoor tells us about her transition from law to sales, finding acceptance as a diverse attorney, and her thoughts on the future of the legal services industry.

Toby Brown is the CEO and founder of DV8 Legal Strategies and a true pioneer in pricing and project management in the legal industry. Toby got his start in law firm administration, and then became director of the Utah State Bar. His move to head of knowledge management at Fulbright & Jaworski marked the start of his business of law innovation journey, which has since led to a number of roles at Am Law 100 firms building pricing and project management programs. Today, Toby helps legal organizations break from the status quo and develop differentiated and sustainable strategies in lateral partner hiring, pricing, and legal project management. Toby is a respected speaker on topics such as legal management, marketing, and technology. He also founded the Standards Advancement for the Legal Industry, and was co-founder of the 3 Geeks and a Law Blog. In our conversation, we discuss Toby's professional journey and how it led to legal project management, the need for standards in the profession, what drives him to bring people together in the industry, and his new venture at DV8 Legal Strategies.