Think Inclusive

Genia Stephen — founder and host of the Good Things In Life podcast. She supports families to help kids with intellectual disabilities build inclusive lives at home, school, and in the community. She’s also a midwife with 10+ years’ experience working with families, including those welcoming a child with a disability.Tim talks with Genia Stephen about why podcasting is her go‑to way to bring disability thought leaders to families, what inclusion looks like across Canada and the U.S., and why “perfect inclusion” is aspirational—but inclusion still beats segregation every time. They discuss real‑life examples—from Genia’s sister and friend Becky to her son’s schooling—that show how community, relationships, and access to the regular curriculum create better outcomes.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/genia-stephen-good-things-in-life-podcast/

Eric Garcia is a journalist and the author of We’re Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation. He has worked at The Washington Post, The Hill, Roll Call, National Journal, and MarketWatch; his writing has appeared in The New Republic, The Daily Beast, The American Prospect, and Salon. He currently serves as Senior D.C. Correspondent for The Independent and is active on X/Twitter at @EricMGarcia. In this episode, Tim Villegas talks with Eric Garcia about reframing how society talks about autism—centering autistic voices, prioritizing real supports, and moving away from labels that flatten people’s experiences. Garcia challenges “inspiration” narratives, argues for fully funding and properly delivering IDEA services, and explains why integrated employment and community‑based supports matter for dignity and opportunity. He discusses health care that listens to autistic people, the overlapping struggles of autistic and LGBTQ+ communities, and why terms like “high‑” and “low‑functioning” should give way to talking about support needs. The conversation closes with a hopeful vision: autistic people included in every decision that affects them—across policy, workplaces, and public life. Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/eric-garcia-were-not-broken-changing-the-autism-conversation/

Marilyn Friend — Renowned expert on co‑teaching and inclusive practices; author of practitioner books including Co‑Teach and Specially Designed Instruction for Co‑Teaching. She emphasizes co‑teaching as a service delivery option that embeds specially designed instruction in general education classrooms. Learn more at coteach.com or reach her at marilynfriend@marilynfriend.com. Host Tim Villegas talks with Marilyn Friend about what co‑teaching really is (and isn’t), why it isn’t mandated in federal or state law, and how it strengthens inclusive education by ensuring physical, social, and instructional integration for students with disabilities. The conversation covers the six co‑teaching approaches, which ones to prioritize, and practical guardrails like role reciprocity and keeping specially designed instruction truly “special.”

Sarah Wishart is the Creative Director at EachOther, a UK human-rights journalism charity, where she leads both the editorial and film teams. With a background in theatre/performance and communications in the education/media space, she focuses on storytelling that centers lived experience. In 2020 she launched Excluded, a youth-led feature documentary about school exclusion in the UK that elevates the voices of young people—many credited as co‑creators and consultants.Host Tim Villegas talks with Sarah Wishart about Excluded, a young-people–led documentary exploring how exclusion works in UK schools and why inclusion and compassion matter. They cover the viral “ad hack” that mapped a school‑exclusion‑to‑prison pipeline on the London Underground, the realities of temporary and permanent exclusion (including PRUs), and how co‑creating—and paying—young contributors changed the film and the organization behind it.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/sarah-wishart-excluded-a-young-people-led-film-on-school-exclusions/

Wyatt Oroke (often “Mr. O”) is a nationally recognized Baltimore educator known for his work in social justice and literacy. He teaches 7th–8th grade English and Honors English at City Springs Elementary/Middle School in Baltimore City. Honors include 2020 Baltimore City Teacher of the Year and 2021 Maryland Teacher of the Year, with additional recognition from Johns Hopkins, the University of Baltimore School of Law, the Maryland State Senate, the Baltimore Orioles, and a “Superhero Award” from Ellen DeGeneres, where he appeared twice. Instagram: @wyattoroke; he’s on Twitter but rarely posts; DMs are the best way to request his email.In this conversation, Wyatt Oroke makes the case that high expectations are an equity issue: every student (“scholar,” in his classroom) deserves access to grade‑level content with the right supports. He shares how an honors‑level curriculum and a student‑led (90/10) classroom helped his scholars rise academically, engage with real‑world issues like restorative practices, and advocate directly to city leaders. Grounded in his own story as a once‑struggling reader, Oroke challenges deficit language (e.g., “learning loss”), pushes for curriculum that centers students’ identities and voices, and calls for schools to become true community hubs. He doesn’t mince words about systemic inequities—his stance is to “blow it up and start again”—while offering practical steps educators can take right now: listen first, design for access to grade‑level work, and give students the mic.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/wyatt-oroke-having-high-expectations-for-all-students/

Melissa McCullough is the Director of Early Childhood for the East Moline school district in Illinois, a pre‑K–8 district of about 2,700 students with roughly 200 children in its early childhood program. She started her career as a school social worker in an inclusion‑first district, brings that mindset to her current role, and is also a parent of three boys who are hard of hearing—experience that fuels her advocacy for inclusive preschool. Tim Villegas talks with Melissa McCullough about what fully inclusive preschool looks like—and how her district moved away from “all‑or‑nothing” special education toward blended classrooms where related services are pushed in, teachers are dually certified, and supports are built around least restrictive environment from day one. A key milestone: the program began the 2021–22 school year with zero students in self‑contained placements. The conversation covers mindset shifts, partnering with families, strategic professional development, and using data and funding drivers (like Indicator 6 in Illinois) to sustain change.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/melissa-mccullough-what-inclusive-preschool-services-look-like/

Eddie Fergus is an associate professor of urban education and policy at Temple University. A former high school teacher, program evaluator, and community school program director, his research focuses on the intersection of education policy and outcomes, with specific attention to Black and Latino boys, disproportionality in special education, suspensions, school climate, and access to advanced courses.In this conversation, Eddie Fergus breaks down what “disproportionality” means in schools—when a student group is over‑ or under‑represented in programs like special education relative to their share of enrollment—and why it persists. He explains how practitioner mindsets (“shopping carts” of lived experience) and systemic design choices (e.g., wait‑to‑fail models) interact to produce inequitable outcomes. The discussion touches on Response to Intervention (RTI) and multi‑tiered supports, restorative practices as repair rather than punishment, and why the biggest barrier to inclusion may be the belief that only certain adults can teach students with disabilities.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/eddie-fergus-disproportionality-in-special-education/

Megan Gross — Special education teacher (14 years) and teacher on special assignment supporting inclusive practices and leading professional learning for K–12 teams in the Poway Unified school district. 2017 California Teacher of the Year and co‑author of The Inclusion Toolbox (with Dr. Jenny Kurth) and ParaEducate (with Renay Marquez).Nancy Brundrett — Special education instructional assistant (19 years) and the district’s first classified on special assignment, providing job‑embedded coaching for instructional assistants, supporting school teams to implement inclusive practices, and leading professional learning.In this episode, host Tim Villegas talks with Megan Gross and Nancy Brundrett about how Poway Unified school district shifted from celebrated segregated programs to a system where all students are general education students first. They walk through the leadership moves, the opt‑in pilot approach, the creation of on‑special‑assignment roles, and the day‑to‑day coaching that make inclusion work in real classrooms.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/bonus-megan-gross-and-nancy-brundrett-what-inclusive-education-looks-like-at-poway-unified/

Dr. Jennifer (“Jenny”) Kurth is an associate professor of special education at the University of Kansas. Her work centers on inclusive education for students with extensive and pervasive support needs, and she co-developed practical “participation plans” that general and special educators build together to support students in general education classes. Jenny Kurth makes the case that inclusive education is a social‑justice issue because the “wealth, opportunity, and privilege” in schools live in general education—not in separate settings. She walks through how participation plans work (ecological assessment, general + individualized supports, embedded instruction, and prioritizing a few big learning goals) so students with complex support needs learn with their peers. Jenny also pushes the field to move beyond labels and placement continuums—toward “specialized supports” that follow the student—and reminds educators to use the power they already have to advocate, collaborate, and “find another way.”Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/jenny-kurth-implementing-inclusive-education-with-participation-plans/

Alfie Kohn — Author and speaker on human behavior, education, and parenting; writer of 14 books and hundreds of articles; lectures at education conferences, universities, parent groups, and corporations. Known for Punished by Rewards and widely cited work challenging rewards, punishments, and behaviorist approaches in schools.In this episode, Alfie Kohn argues that rewards (“positive reinforcement”) and punishments are two sides of the same coin—tools for short‑term compliance that erode curiosity, relationships, and intrinsic motivation. He critiques PBIS and behaviorist frameworks for centering control and compliance, and offers a “working‑with” alternative grounded in student interests, democratic class meetings, and co‑created curriculum. The episode also touches on inclusion, ungrading, and practical ways educators can reduce harm while pushing for structural change.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/alfie-kohn-does-behaviorism-belong-in-the-classroom/