The Psychedelic Therapy Podcast

Today we are joined by Saj Razvi an expert on psychedelics and the somatic approach to healing single-event, complex, and dissociative trauma. We open with an understanding of how trauma is stored in the body, and why it can be so hard to overcome with traditional therapy. We then discuss the difference between primary and secondary consciousness, and how psychedelics play a role in disrupting the default mode network to heal trauma. Finally, we talk about the Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy (PSIP) model that Saj and his team are successfully utilizing at the Psychedelic Somatic Institute. Saj Razvi is the Director of Education at the Psychedelic Somatic Institute (PSI). He is a psychotherapist and former clinical researcher in the MAPS Phase 2 trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy, and one of the primary developers of the Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy (PSIP) modality which is a conscious oriented psychotherapy. Saj's primary focus is to train clinicians to provide legal, effective psychedelic treatment in their private practice settings utilizing readily accessible medicines such as cannabis and ketamine. Links Saj’s Email Psychedelic Somatic Institute Training video excerpt Timestamps: :04 - Saj’s involvement in therapy, healing, and mental health in general :08 - What is somatic healing? :11 - Somatic therapy and trauma :19 - Healing trauma using the gazelle/lion analogy - traditional psychotherapy and managing symptoms rather than healing them :25 - Why don’t complex childhood traumas resolve themselves? :30 - How are psychedelics used to access disassociated trauma? :34 - Is trauma stored physically in the nervous system? :37 - What is the Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy Model (PSIP)? :41 - How do you guide a client in the PSIP model? :45 - Is there a risk of re-traumatization with this therapy? :51 - How to track a client’s healing? How many psychedelic sessions are necessary to heal a trauma? :58 - How are these different psychedelic medicines helpful for PSIP therapy? 1:06 - Advice for aspiring therapists

On today’s episode we delve into the promising future of Dr. Dan Engle’s new wellness institute, Kuya, located in Austin, Texas. The center focuses on whole human care, hoping to eliminate anxiety, depression, PTSD, and other mental health issues. On the show, Dr. Dan Engle explains his history with psychedelics and the path that led him to open the center. He also speaks on his new book, A Dose of Hope, which follows the treatment of PTSD with MDMA-assisted therapy, recounted through the eyes of a fictional patient. We then finish up with the future of psychedelics, the need to train 100,000 new therapists, and advice to those looking to get involved. Dr. Dan Engle is an American psychiatrist with a background in integrative psychiatry, neurocognitive restoration, peak performance medicine, and psychedelic research. His trans-disciplinary approach focuses on healing all aspects of the mind, body, and spirit to help individuals achieve optimum health, wellbeing, and sustained fulfillment. Dr. Engle is the Founder and Medical Director of Kuya Institute of Transformational Medicine in Austin, Texas; Full Spectrum Medicine a psychedelic integration and educational platform; and Thank You Life, a non-profit funding stream supporting access to psychedelic therapies. Links Dr. Dan Engle A Dose of Hope Kuya Institute of Transformational Medicine Thank You Life Full Spectrum Medicine Man Searches For Meaning It Didn’t Start With You Timestamps :06 - History of Engle’s involvement in psychedelics and ayahuasca apprenticeship :13 - On the book “A Dose of Hope” :15 - Advice to give to practitioners for better understanding/empathizing with and supporting people who are completely foreign to this world :21 - The challenges faced with helping patients and clients through the psychedelic re-sensitization process :32 - What is Kuya? What does it offer? :49 - How will Kuya be made accessible to promote equality and inclusivity? 1:00 - How do we train 100,000 psychedelic therapists in our limited timeframe? 1:08 - Closing thoughts and advice to healers, therapists, and those aspiring to get into the field

The Psychedelic Renaissance is well underway, but thirty years ago there was another revolution in psychiatry, the introduction of prozac, the first SSRI. Today’s guest Dr Priya Parmar started her residency at that time but today she is ending her relationship with traditional psychiatry. Since 2017 she has been using ketamine in her practice which she feels is a potent frontline treatment for mental health disorders… with the caveat of the importance of integration. On the show Priya and I share a long preamble about the state of the American healthcare system and we talk about the crisis in confidence in Western medical authority. Priya explains why she started using ketamine and her particular protocol with the medicine. We discuss set and setting, group vs individual sessions, recreational use of ketamine, as well as tolerance and dependency. Finally Priya shares her passion for supporting patients in getting off of the antidepressants that were once heralded as a miraculous cure. Priya is a board certified psychiatrist in Los Angeles, California. After almost twenty years in a solo practice in San Francisco, she is now the CEO of State of Mind Wellness Center where she offers ketamine-assisted therapy based on the social theory of primates. Links: State of Mind Wellness Center Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression – and the Unexpected Solutions Timestamps :07 - Preamble about issues with the healthcare system :15 - Why Priya went into psychiatry and what has changed :22 - The crisis of confidence in Western medical authority :29 - Why Priya uses ketamine and her protocol :35 - How recreational use of ketamine influences her practice :48 - Supporting patients in going off antidepressants :56 - Concerns about psychedelic medicine 

What if a simple test could reveal the speed of your psychedelic metabolism or your propensity for psychedelic-triggered mental health issues? Providing information on 5 key genetic variants, HaluGen Life Sciences is a direct to consumer test and an educational tool to help us all understand the various factors that impact the psychedelic experience. On today’s show I speak with Tim Ko and John Lem from Entheon, the company behind HaluGen. On the show, we review each of the biomarkers they test for including three biomarkers for general mental health risks, a variant that causes slower Ketamine metabolization, and a variant that increases the density of serotonin 2A receptors. We discuss the potential actionability of this data and how Entheon sees the tool developing over time. Timothy Ko has a broad background of leading private ventures in the Service Sector, Investor Relations, Retail and Technology. Timothy’s passion for the psychedelic space is shaped by firsthand knowledge of the shortcomings of the current mental health system, and through his exposure to psychedelics which he credits with saving his life. John Lem is the co-founder of Spartan Bioscience and Lobo Genetics with 15 years experience in life sciences, medical devices and capital markets. Links Entheon HaluGen Test Kit Entheon Twitter Timestamps :04 - Tim Ko’s personal history and passion for psychedelic healing :15 - What is Entheon :21 - Population breakdowns for genetic mutations :26 - Three biomarkers for general mental health risks :41 - A genetic variant which causes people to metabolize ketamine more slowly :45 - A variant that increases the density and serotonin 2A receptors :54 - Future biomarkers to study :59 - What will Halugen 2.0 look like

What if a therapist could peer inside the black box of a patient’s psychedelic experience? Adam Gazzaley and his Neuroscape team at UCSF are using multimodal biosensing research to make that dream a reality. On the show, Adam explains the concept of experiential medicine and how the brain modifies itself in response to different experiences. He shares his previous work creating a video game that is also a class two medical device for ADHD. He relates his long inquiry with shamans and therapists to understand how to design set and setting research studies. We explore the future of psychedelic therapy with a data-rich AI assistant and the potential concerns therapists might have about being replaced by innovative technology. Finally, Adam shares a powerful message to psychedelic healers and those who aspire to be. Adam Gazzaley is an American neuroscientist, author, photographer, entrepreneur and inventor. He is the founder and executive director of Neuroscape and the David Dolby Distinguished Professor of Neurology, Physiology, and Psychiatry at University of California, San Francisco. The new Neuroscape Psychedelics Division will be lead by Robin Carhart-Harris is dedicated to advancing the field of psychedelic science and medicine through multi-level research covering basic to translational to clinical science. Links Adam Gazzaley Neuroscape at UCSF Neuroracer in Nature “The Cognition Crisis” Timestamps :06 - How the brain modifies itself in response to experience :12 - How Adam got a video game approved as a class two medical device by the FDA :21 - Why Adam is studying the context (set and setting) of psychedelics :29 - Lessons from therapists and shamans that inform Adam’s research :36 - Studying the impact of community, nature, and an ongoing healing journey. :47 - The future experience of a therapist using multimodal biosensing tools :53 - Could an AI associate displace the need for a therapist? 1:00 - Adam speaks to psychedelic therapists

As the Psychedelic Renaissance blossoms, many healers and business leaders are rightly looking at environmental conservation and reciprocity with Indigenous wisdom keepers. Joseph Mays is Program Director for the Chacruna's new Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative (IRI). On the podcast, he shares some powerful ways for the psychedelic community to cultivate a healthy relationship with Indigenous people in the Americas. On the show, we discuss the Indigenous worldview as it pertains to psychedelic healing. We learn about Chacruna’s Ayahuasca Community Committee on which Joe sits and consider what well-meaning people might get wrong about reciprocity. Joseph explains the details of the Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative and its successes so far. Finally we discuss what it means to use interest in psychedelics to raise funds for effective altruism. Joseph Mays is an Ethnobotanist, a researcher and a writer. He is the program director of Chacruna’s Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative where he conducts research and builds connections with small Indigenous communities throughout the Americas to support Chacruna’s mission of increasing cultural reciprocity in the psychedelic space. If you’d like to go deeper on this subject, join us for Maya's first collaborative event to raise awareness and funding for IRI on Wednesday, September 22. Donate by registering for the event. Links Chacruna’s Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative "Supporting Indigenous Autonomy Means Participating in a Story of Relationship” by Joseph Mays Indigenous Reciprocity in the Psychedelic Community Talk Joseph on Instagram Joseph’s Website Timestamps :09 - Indigenous understanding invites you to step into a relationship :14 - Chacruna and the Ayahuasca Community Committee :17 - IRI, the Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative :23 - What well-meaning people get wrong about indigenous reciprocity :32 - Successes of the fund after its first quarter :44 - Using interest in psychedelics to raise funds :51 - Joseph speaks to psychedelic practitioners

Today’s episode is a repost from my personal podcast, Life is a Festival, where I interview cultural pioneers about living a more openhearted life. Today’s guest, Sutton King, lives a life full of joy and service and she is also the Head of Impact at Journey Colab a major psychedelic drug development company. Journey Colab just raised 12 million and Sutton’s important work in reciprocity is a major part of the company’s appeal to value-aligned investors. In fact, she has a lot to teach all of us about the lessons of reciprocity from her people, which is why I chose to share this podcast with you today. On the show, we explore Sutton’s commitment to healing and service from her early days dancing jingle dress, to her work with the Urban Indigenous Collective in New York. Sutton explains her perspective on kinship and the Seven Generations Principle. We discuss Journey Colab, the psychedelic startup that is developing mescaline for treating alcoholism. Finally, we review the responsibilities of psychedelic entrepreneurs as well as individual psychonauts to be in right relation with the honorable harvest. A descendant of the Menominee and Oneida Nations of Wisconsin, Sutton King is a nationally recognized indigenous heath advocate, researcher, and social entrepreneur. She is the co-founder and President of Urban Indigenous Collective, a nonprofit advocating on the behalf of Urban Natives in the tri-state area, she is Head of Impact at Journey Colab, a start-up led by Sam Altman and Jeeshan Chowdhury developing psychedelic treatments for mental health, and she is the Co-Founder of ShockTalk, a culturally tailored telemental health platform that facilitates culturally appropriate patient-provider relationships. Links Sutton King on Instagram Sutton King on Twitter Journey Colab Urban Indigenous Collective ShockTalk Decolonizing Wealth Braiding Sweetgrass Timestamps :06 - Sutton honors her ancestors :09 - A day in the life of a psychedelic impact advocate :14 - Sutton’s early life and indigenous cultural traditions :23 - Kinship and Seven Generations as a way of understanding indigenous reciprocity :33 - Mescaline, Peyote, and Journey Colab Reciprocity Trust :43 - The Nagoya Protocol, Free and Prior and Informed Consent and the responsibility of psychedelic business :58 - The responsibility of individual psychonauts for Indigenous reciprocity

Named one of Time Magazine’s most influential people of 2021, Robin Carhart-Harris conducts some of the most impactful psychedelic research in the world. On the podcast, we review Robin’s early research with MDMA and his involvement with the first fMRI and MEG studies of LSD. We talk about his 2016 study of psilocybin’s efficacy with treatment-resistant depression and his most recent head-to-head comparison of the psychedelic with the SSRI Escitalopram (Lexapro). The outcome of that study calling into question a generation of psychiatric scales.  As the former Head of the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris is now moving to the Neuroscape Psychedelic Division at UCSF. For 15 years, his research has focused on how drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, DMT and MDMA work in the brain, and how they may be useful in treating disorders such as depression.‍ Robin is also an advisor to Maya, the measurement-based care platform that makes this show possible. Links Robin Carhart-Harris Time Magazine Adam Gazzaley Neuroscape at UCSF Timestamps :06 - Robin’s early career from a masters in psychoanalysis to early experiments with MDMA :12 - fMRI and MEG studies of psychedelics :16 - Robin’s first study of treatment-resistant depression in 2016 :30 - The first ever study of psychedelics head to head with an antidepressant :40 - Robin’s future research :45 - Robin speaks to psychedelic therapists

Whether psychedelic therapists should have their own experiences with these compounds as part of their training is a passionately debated subject. Dr. Elizabeth Nielson, cofounder of Fluence, one of the foremost organizations training psychedelic therapists, has been pondering this for sometime, including how we ask the question itself. Her recent paper in the Journal of Humanistic Psychology explores the ethical considerations in offering and providing such experiences and is the subject of today’s podcast. Our conversation begins with the ethics of discussing personal psychedelic experiences. We talk about the work of Fluence from harm reduction to integration coaching. We discuss Dr. Nielson’s article “Psychedelics as a Training Experience for Psychedelic Therapists: Drawing on History to Inform Current Practice.” We explore the paradigms of the shamanic and Western worldview. Finally, we review other kinds of altered states of consciousness that psychedelic therapists can explore, in a. Dr. Elizabeth Nielson is a co-founder of Fluence and a psychologist with a focus on developing psychedelic medicines as empirically supported treatments for PTSD, substance use problems, and mood disorders. Dr. Nielson is a Site Co-Principal Investigator and therapist for an FDA approved Phase 3 clinical trial of MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and has served as a therapist on FDA approved clinical trials of psilocybin-assisted treatment of alcohol use disorder, psilocybin-assisted treatment of treatment resistant depression, and earlier phase 2 and 3 trials of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Through Fluence, she provides continuing education and training programs for therapists who wish to engage in integration of psychedelic experiences in clinical settings. Links Fluence Dr. Elizabeth Neilson on Twitter “Psychedelics as a Training Experience for Psychedelic Therapists: Drawing on History to Inform Current Practice” (Journal of Humanistic Psychology) Timestamps :08 - The ethics of sharing a personal psychedelic experience :12 - The work of Fluence from harm reduction to integration coaching :26 - The value of psychedelic experiences for psychedelic-assisted therapist :29 - The paradigms of shamanic vs Western medical :35 - Iatrogenic addiction and need for caution and research :44 - How Fluence offers experiential training in lieu of offering psychedelics :42 - The value of a therapist’s pervious psychedelic experiences 1:00 - Advice to therapists

The world of digital therapeutics is booming just as fast as psychedelic therapy. Today’s guest, Lyle Maxson, is resolutely optimistic about the positive synthesis of the two. On the show, we discuss the science of Lyle’s software SoundSelf, which uses voice to generate a hypnotic world of light, color, and sound. We review his business partner Robin Arnott’s Technodelic Manifesto and ask the important question: Will technology replace therapists? We also cover data sovereignty, metric tracking, and finally the future of psychedelic medicine and digital therapeutics. With a start in immersive environments at festivals, Lyle Maxson is a pioneer of Transformative Entertainment. He is Chief Strategy Officer of Entheo Digital - a digital therapeutics company pursuing FDA clearance and the creation of a wellness technology marketplace at the intersection of psychedelic therapy and experiential medicine. He is also the co-founder of Andromeda Entertainment, a VR publisher bringing to market “Games for Good,” and GeniusX, a VR education platform. Links Lyle Maxson SoundSelf The Technodelic Manifesto By Robin Arnott Luminous Lyle on Instagram Entheo Digital Genius X Andromeda Entertainment Lyle on Linkedin Timestamps :09 - Lyle’s background in lucid dreaming, festival production and biohacking :18 - The Technodelic Manifesto By Robin Arnott :23 - The Science of SoundSelf :28 - Will technology replace therapists? :33 - Metric tracking and data sovereignty :38 - The future of psychedelic medicine and unforeseen consequences of digital therapeutics :46 - Educating psychedelic therapists in VR