Next Gen Builders

Is it possible to build and scale AI tooling for one of the world’s most risk-averse industries while instilling trust in your users? Today on Next Gen Builders, Francois Ajenstat explores just how to do it with Eleanor Lightbody, CEO of Luminance, the pioneer in Legal-Grade™ AI for enterprise.With 700+ customers in 70+ countries, Eleanor shares how Luminance evolved from early machine learning back in 2015 to where it is today, employing sophisticated AI agents that automate contract review, negotiation, and compliance workflows. Throughout their conversation, Francois and Eleanor highlight different strategies for building user trust. Some are complex: using multiple models at once to check one another’s work and reduce hallucinations. Some are simple: if your models can’t deliver an answer with confidence, let the human know so they can verify.You’ll also hear Eleanor discuss how her team uses AI across the business, why speed is a competitive advantage, and what it means to lead a global company outside Silicon Valley.Whether you’re building AI in a high-stakes domain or leading transformation in a legacy industry, this episode offers practical insights on trust, innovation, and scaling with purpose.—Guest BioEleanor is CEO of Luminance. Formerly a Director at cyber-AI leader Darktrace, she established and scaled Darktrace’s operations in Africa before serving as Global Head of the Darktrace Industrial Division. Eleanor has a wealth of experience in growing technology businesses, having driven Luminance’s global expansion and led the company’s $75 million Series C funding round in 2025. Named in Management Today’s “35 Women Under 35,” Eleanor is also the winner of Law.com’s prestigious ‘Innovation Trailblazer Award.’ She also serves on Luminance’s Board of Directors.—Guest Quote“I always ask: why can’t AI do this first? Then we figure out what the human should do. The speed advantage is massive. Not just for delivery, but for getting the feedback loop faster, and that is gonna set you up for success. Speed has always been important, but in this new era that everyone’s operating in, I would say it’s probably one of the most important things.” – Eleanor Lightbody—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start01:23 What is Luminance?02:34 Why specialized AI is primed for legal teams07:20 The largest roadblocks to widespread adoption09:52 How do you measure success?11:56 Building confidence across your organization14:50 Staying ahead of the curve18:06 Eleanor's journey to Luminance22:12 Optimize for learning24:07 Leading globally26:56 Advice for aspiring CEOs31:15 Eleanor's "Oh Sh*t Moment"—LinksConnect with Eleanor Lightbody on LinkedInCheck out LuminanceConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

Hannah Calhoon, VP of AI at Indeed, leads the charge in integrating AI across a workforce of 11,000. She discusses the concept of 'vibe hiring' and how AI transforms company operations and recruitment. Hannah emphasizes creating safe spaces for experimentation and overcoming resistance to new tools. She shares strategies like tailored training programs and a 'Lego block' approach for flexibility. Balancing human judgment with AI efficiency remains crucial, as does fostering trust in these new technologies.

Diego Lomanto, CMO at WRITER, brings 20 years of expertise in B2B marketing to the conversation. He discusses cutting through the noise in AI marketing and why human engagement still matters. Diego shares insights on building adaptable teams and the importance of storytelling in crafting impactful narratives. He also emphasizes the necessity of real-time collaboration with product teams and navigating change in fast-paced environments. His take on hiring for adaptability and using crises as a catalyst for innovation is particularly enlightening.

How do great product leaders navigate rapid scaling, the AI evolution, and unpredictable founders? April Underwood, former CPO at Slack and Co-Founder of Adverb Ventures, shares her playbook for building enduring product vision through change.Francois and April frame their conversation by first exploring her background with hypergrowth orgs such as Twitter and Slack, unpacking key learnings around what it takes to scale your own skills alongside your company. You’ll hear her thoughts around leading with clarity, building trust with your founders, and navigating technology paradigm shifts such as GenAI.Additionally, April offers sharp insights into how product teams can stay grounded during uncertainty, how design becomes a competitive advantage during inflection points, and what she looks for in early-stage founders as a venture investor. Whether you’re investing in the next unicorn or building it from the ground up, this episode provides grounded frameworks and hard-earned lessons for you to follow.—Guest BioApril Underwood is the Managing Director and Co-Founder of Adverb Ventures, with a focus on investing in various sectors and stages such as Future of Work, Consumer Health, and Developer Tools. She has held significant roles at companies like Slack as Chief Product Officer and Twitter as Director of Product, demonstrating her expertise in product management and strategic partnerships.Underwood's career highlights include co-founding #ANGELS and Nearby, as well as serving on the boards of Zillow Group and Eventbrite, showcasing her strong leadership skills and strategic vision in the tech industry.—Guest Quote“We should all be looking at AI and thinking that if everything we have worked hard to do in the past is now becoming commoditized, then I either need to fire these tools up and get into the mindset of somebody that comes to this with a fresh set of eyes, or I need to be on the side of building tools that are a part of the evolution.” – April Underwood—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start01:45 April's jump from Twitter to Slack06:15 Decision making within a hypergrowth organization09:15 Aligning your organization around the North Star12:20 Creating a winning Founder-CPO relationship17:40 How April views the AI future23:00 AI has created two worlds in Silicon Valley25:15 The "It-Factor" in emerging startups30:55 Looking back on April's career trajectory34:00 The importance of community—LinksConnect with April Underwood on LinkedInCheck out Adverb VenturesConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

How do top design leaders turn strategic vision into product magic? Yudi Sun of Duolingo joins Francois on this episode of Next Gen Builders to share how design can influence product outcomes, build cross-functional trust, and scale impact.Their conversation takes a look at the design systems, rituals, and philosophies that supercharge one of the world’s most engaging apps. With prior experience at other brand leaders like Lyft and Cash App, Yudi presents a strong case for how design can operate beyond visuals and become a force for product strategy, organizational alignment, and business growth.You’ll learn about Yudi’s "60% brain share" framework for team collaboration, how Duolingo runs product reviews directly with the CEO in 10-minute slots, and what it takes for designers to build influence upstream. Whether you’re leading a growth team or launching new features, this episode offers real insights into making design central to product success.—Guest BioYudi Sun is head of design for Duolingo's Growth org, the team that created the Duolingo streak, leaderboards, friendship mechanics, notifications and more. Before this, she led an app-wide redesign at Cash App, created products for drivers at Lyft, and started her career as an illustrator.—Guest Quote“Design is at the forefront of our ability to build products. It really occupies just about the same role as a product lead does. And it's usually part of the perfect trio of engineering, product, and design when it comes to figuring out what are we trying to do, how are we going to get there, and what does good look like.” – Yudi Sun—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start02:20 The role of design inside Duolingo4:50 Sharing tasks & goals to collaborate effectively 08:25 How to implement this strategy11:35 Is misalignment inevitable at some point?15:45 Yudi's definition of craft18:15 Where Duolingo sits on the design spectrum21:30 What a more traditional company can take from Duolingo's approach26:00 Making decisions for all to see35:50 Yudi's "Oh Sh*t" Moment—LinksConnect with Yudi Sun on LinkedInCheck out DuolingoConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

In this engaging discussion, Daniel Sternberg, a seasoned AI executive and former Head of Data at Notion, shares his insights on swiftly building AI products. He reveals how Notion AI transitioned from concept to a revenue-generating tool within weeks, stressing the need for realistic expectations around AI capabilities. Daniel discusses the evolving role of data leadership, advocating for data teams to drive innovation rather than serve merely as support. He highlights collaboration, human expertise, and a learning mindset as keys to navigating the fast-changing AI landscape.

Today on Next Gen Builders, Francois welcomes Brent Smart, the CMO at Australian Telco giant, Telstra. Their conversation focuses on the power of brand as Brent has been the leading charge behind Telstra’s new brand platform. Throughout the episode, Brent argues for connecting your marketing efforts to the real world. When trying to evaluate how Telstra appeared to consumers, his team ran surveys asking Australians to draw, not write, what they thought of the organization. Similarly, he consistently advocates for running live experiments to validate your approaches in real time. The episode also explores how Brent aligns teams around a unified brand vision with tools created in house, such as “Telstra’s Creative Dial,” to help measure and guide creative output. He stresses the value of a distinct brand voice and explains why starting with a small, focused team helps nurture new ideas.Drawing on his transition from agency life to leading Telstra’s marketing, Brent offers a fresh perspective on keeping creativity alive in a corporate setting. His commitment to hands-on idea generation and real-world testing over pre-market research makes this episode essential for anyone seeking meaningful brand transformation.—Guest BioA leading global marketer and a passionate speaker on creativity, brand and culture, Brent Smart is Chief Marketing Officer of Australia's second most valuable brand, Telstra.Previously, Brent spent five years as CMO of Australian insurance giant IAG, where his work on NRMA Insurance took it from 36th strongest brand in Australia to 5th, winning 3 Gold effectiveness awards and the coveted Grand Effie in 2021. Mark Ritson wrote that “NRMA is not just a fantastic Australian case study, it could be taught at Harvard or Stanford and positions Brent Smart as the most accomplished CMO in Australia and one of the best in the world”.Before becoming a marketer, Brent spent 20 years in the advertising business, leading New Zealand Agency of the Decade Colenso BBDO and rising to CEO of Saatchi and Saatchi New York, winning many Cannes Lions and other global creative awards.—Guest Quote“ Brand is a multiplier for performance marketing. When the brand is strong, the performance marketing actually works better. We've seen our short term ROIs actually go up, not go down. The brand doesn't just help with this quarter's numbers, it helps with next quarter’s and beyond. And once you give it time to start building, you can start showing that not just the brand metrics are healthy, also our short term performance metrics are healthy. But you need time. It's not gonna show in the first quarter. You gotta wait.” – Brent Smart—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start2:00 The power of brand05:10 Evaluating your brand08:35 Finding your brand voice12:10 Building conviction within your organization15:05 Start experimenting in the real world17:40 Leading by doing19:45 Taxi or Bus Meeting22:00 What does a good pitch feel like?27:35  Discipline liberates creativity30:00 Can you teach taste?34:20 Brent's journey to CMO—LinksConnect with Brent Smart on LinkedInCheck out TelstraConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

Today on Next Gen Builders, Francois speaks with Edik Mitelman, SVP & General Manager of AppsFlyer Privacy Cloud, the trusted open platform for ecosystem collaboration and innovation with a clear mission: Enhancing end-users experience, while preserving their privacy.Their conversation covers the challenges and strategies for building a startup within a larger organization, and why you would even do it in the first place. Edik highlights how a smaller, resource-limited team can align themselves much closer with their users, ensuring each line of code they produce serves a clear purpose. Francois & Edik also touch on the role Product Managers should be serving within organizations and how they compare and contrast across various company sizes. One glaring similarity in Edik’s mind? The importance of maintaining a beginner’s mindset. In his words “ experience is important…but we as product managers must assume that we don't know and we need to test our hypotheses.”Finally, Edik shares his thoughts around risk and failure. He stresses that more organizations should be comfortable with potential failure in order to foster an environment full of experimentation. Through each iteration, your team will gain learned experiences that will lay the groundwork for your next big success.—AppsFlyer Update Since we recorded this episode, the journey Edik discusses of building what's essentially a startup within AppsFlyer is bearing fruit, with AppsFlyer's Data Collaboration Platform being used across several industries -- including quick commerce, consumer packaged goods, and financial services. The results for early adopters are impressive: marketing campaigns for brands using the product have seen up to 400% return on their ad spend and significant performance uplifts for their businesses. The partnerships embody what we talked about regarding the advantages of building a startup within an established company — leveraging AppsFlyer's resources, credibility and relationships while maintaining the innovative spirit and customer focus that drives true product-market fit. It's a real-world example of transforming concept into practice, process into product, and experience into measurable success.—Guest BioEdik Mitelman is the General Manager of Privacy Cloud at AppsFlyer, an ecosystem collaboration and innovation environment which preserves end-user privacy. Edik is an experienced executive with previous leadership roles at Autodesk, Wochit, and Conduit. He also runs the Venture Creation and Product Innovation program as part of the GMBA at Reichman University.—Guest Quote ”As product managers, we must do what customers need. So if you sold it and you don't care anymore, you will never care for that customer any longer, until maybe the renewal time comes up. I want my PMs to constantly worry about their customers, and to constantly deliver value throughout the year. So that people use our products more and more.” – Edik Mitelman—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start01:45 When Edik left engineering for product03:50 Maintaining a beginner's mindset05:20 How the role of product varies between organizations08:25 Building multiple startups within a single orga nization10:15 Edik's work on AppsFlyer Privacy Cloud13:45 The advantages that come from a startup mentality17:05 Measuring success20:55 Ensuring your team is rowing together 24:40 Failure breeds success 32:45 Are GMs for everyone?—LinksConnect with Edik MitelmanCheck out AppsFlyerCheck out the AppsFlyer Privacy CloudConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

Welcome to Season 02 of Next Gen Builders! Today, Francois sits down with fellow podcast host Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia, Founder & CEO of Product School, the global leader in Product Management training. Their conversation covers how Carlos scaled Product School from the ground up, why community building has been a key factor in his success, and what truly makes a great product leader. Carlos founded Product School in 2014 with a vision of democratizing access to education and has since grown the community to over 2M members. He reflects upon what ingredients have led to the organization’s success alongside what he may have done differently if given the opportunity again. Ultimately though, Product School is   proof that community matters regardless of the business you are in.Additionally, Francois and Carlos talk about The Product Podcast and how impactful it has been in tandem with Product School. With over 260 interviews featuring product executives from brands such as Nike, the NBA, Duolingo, and Amplitude, Carlos has had the opportunity to truly understand the makeup of a great product leader. So right after tuning into Next Gen Builders, check out The Product Podcast!—Guest BioCarlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia is an entrepreneur with over 15 years of experience building global companies and digital products.He founded Product School in 2014, which is the global leader in product training with a community of over two million members. All of Product School's instructors are real-world Product Leaders working at top Silicon Valley companies including Google, Meta, Netflix, Airbnb, Uber, and Amazon. Prior to Product School, he founded Floqq, the largest online education marketplace in Spanish and Portuguese at the time. Floqq joined the 500 Startups and Startup Chile accelerator programs.Additionally, Carlos co-authored the Amazon bestseller The Product Book, and has participated as a speaker in more than 1,000 events, conferences, and classes around the world. Outside of work, he loves skiing and playing tennis.—Guest Quote" Community is a term that is now being overused and sometimes misunderstood as, ‘Oh, let's just start giving something away with an expectation of getting something in return.’ And I think that kind of defeats the definition of a community. True, you as a business need to have a business model to keep the lights on and grow, but building a community to me is a strategy, it's not a tactic. To me that meant I'm going to build something for the long term. I have a mission which is helping people build better products and democratize access to education in ways that some of the people that actually benefit from the community might never be able to pay economically. And I'm okay with that. And so it starts from that mindset, without obviously forgetting about the business model. That is how I think of community, as a strategy.” – Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start01:45 What is Product School?04:00 How Carlos was able to scale 08:05 Lessons learned along the way10:55 Creating & measuring meaningful communities14:30 The Product Podcast18:00 What makes a great product leader21:10 Transforming with AI effectively26:20 Overcoming doubts and hesitations29:40 Carlos' advice for others leaning into innovations 33:20 Maintaining flexibility throughout a transformation34:50 What Product School is focused on in 2025—LinksConnect with Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia on LinkedInCheck out Product SchoolWatch The Product PodcastConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude

In this episode of the Next Gen Builders, Francois is joined by Hubert Palan, Founder & CEO of Productboard, the customer-driven product management tool, who shares how relentlessly focusing on customer pain points has helped them build a product that not only serves but delights its users.When Hubert Palan founded Productboard, he had one goal: Help companies make better product decisions by understanding their customers on a deeper level. Now, with over 6,000 companies—like Zoom, Salesforce, and Toyota—using the product management platform, it’s clear that customer obsession is more than just a buzzword for Hubert and the Productboard team; it’s the driving force behind their business.Throughout their conversation, you’ll hear about why customer obsession matters, the art of prioritizing customer feedback, and how AI enhances customer understanding. Hubert also dives into the lessons learned related to balancing customer feedback, prioritizing product roadmaps, and sometimes saying “no” to customers to best serve them.—Guest BioHubert Palan is Founder and CEO of Productboard, the customer-centric product management platform that helps organizations get the right products to market, faster. Over 6,000 companies, including Toyota, Microsoft, Zoom, Volkswagen, and UiPath, use Productboard to understand what customers need, prioritize what to build next, and align everyone around their roadmap. The company has raised a total of $262M and is headquartered in San Francisco with additional offices around the world.Hubert received his MBA from the University of California, Berkeley and MSc. in Computer Science from Czech Technical University. He lives in the San Francisco Bay area with his wife, Jenna, and their three kids.—Guest Quote"For a company to be really customer-centric, everybody at the company needs to share that understanding of what is it that the people need. And that's where you really reach the goal of being customer obsessed as a company." – Hubert Palan—Time Stamps  00:00 Episode Start01:06 The origins of Productboard03:09 How to make your company truly customer centric05:25 Measuring the success of your efforts10:56 The power of staying aligned to your roadmap16:08 Tying your decision making directly to your users' feedback18:48 Avoiding recency bias21:56 Why you need to dedicate time to information sharing27:37 Knowing when to listen34:09 How AI will shape the Next Gen Builder—LinksConnect with Hubert Palan on LinkedInCheck out ProductboardConnect with Francois Ajenstat on LinkedInCheck out Amplitude