

Alex Andreou's Podyssey
Alex Andreou
Alex Andreou revisits the classic Greek myths, and uncovers universal themes they share with us across the millennia
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 7, 2025 • 1h 12min
8. AESOP II - A dolphin and a seagull were hurling insults at each other
*** SUPPORT SEASON 2 OF PODYSSEY ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
…
Last week we explored the complicated, and largely made-up, biography that is "The Aesop Romance". In this part I talk to experts to try and understand why it is that we need a "back story" for the creators of stories that we connect with, what is the difference between a reliable and unreliable narrator, how populism has refined the art of story-telling, and why only better stories - not better facts - can help us.
*** SUPPORT SEASON 2 OF PODYSSEY ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global
NOTES
MUSIC
Podyssey Theme: “To Margoudi ki o Alexandris”, Marianna Sangita, 2018 (with permission)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LAVj5l9Uc
Rimsky-Korsakov: "Scheherazade; 2nd Movement"; Societe de Concerts Du Conservatoire, Ernest Ansermet 1955
https://archive.org/details/lp_scheherazade
Bernice Parks: "You Intrigue Me" 1952
https://archive.org/details/78_you-intrigue-me_bernice-parks
Verdi: I Vespri Siciliani "In alto mare... Coraggio!", Maria Callas 1951
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibMCTUPC_6g
Offenbach: Les Contes d'Hoffman " O Dieu, de quelle ivresse" (reprise), Raoul Jobin 1950
https://archive.org/details/lp_the-tales-of-hoffman
Anton Karas: The Third Man "Harry Lime Theme", Hermann Stachow 1950
https://archive.org/details/78_harry-limes-melodi
Ravel: Shéhérazade "1. Asie", Suzanne Danco 1955
https://archive.org/details/lp_le-roi-david-sheherazade
Mahalia Jackson: "MyStory" 1953
https://archive.org/details/78_my-story_mahalia-jackson
Verdi: Il Trovatore "Condotta all'era", Cloe Elmo 1941
https://archive.org/details/cloe-elmo-giuseppe-verdi
Rossini: La Cenerentola "Questo e un nodo avviluppato", Glyndebourne Company 1955
https://archive.org/details/lp_la-cenerentola_gioacchino-rossini
ART
Attic red-figure Kylix, circa 5C BCE, Vatican Museum.
A sample "Karagiozis" 19C folk shadow puppet figure, for comparison.
Plaster casts of the Hellenistic statue believed to be of Aesop, avec and sans fig leaf.
Aesopus (c. 1639-40), by Diego Velazquez.
Chelsea porcelain figure of Aesop as a black man, c.1755, and candlestick depicting the fable of The Cockerel and The Jewel, c.1780, Fitzwilliam Museum.
Aesop Telling his Fables, by Johann Michael Wittmer, 1855, Royal Collection.
Illustration by Kawanabe Kyōsai for the Japanese 1770 edition of "Aesop's Fables for All".
FILM - Coming Soon
SOURCES - Coming Soon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jul 13, 2025 • 44min
7. AESOP I - Virtue Signaller or Fake News Merchant?
*** SUPPORT SEASON 2 OF PODYSSEY ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
…
Stories have had a moral, for as long as we have told stories. This week, Aesop; A crowd-sourced literary celebrity. What is the fact and what is the fiction? And why it matters.
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global
NOTES
MUSIC
Podyssey Theme: “To Margoudi ki o Alexandris”, Marianna Sangita, 2018 (with permission)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LAVj5l9Uc
César Cui: "Orientale"; Capitol Symphony Orch, Carmen Dragon 1958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDx-kRbXoCU
Xiomara Alfaro: "Angelitos Negros" 1957
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_9XyHOHiLw
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, Winifred Atwell 1957
https://archive.org/details/lp_winifred-atwell-plays-gershwin_winifred-atwell-ted-heath-and-his-music/disc1/01.01.+Rhapsody+In+Blue.mp3
Charlie Gore: "Absolutely Free", 1953
https://archive.org/details/78_absolutely-free_charlie-gore-charlie-gore-gore-young_gbia0484950b
Manos Hadjidakis: "The Myth", Christiana, 1960
https://archive.org/details/lp_ilios-thalassa.mp3
Richard Strauss: Dance of the Seven Veils from "Salome", Paul Paray, 1959
https://archive.org/details/lp_the-heart-of-the-opera_antal-dorati-paul-paray-detroit-symphony-o/disc1/02.01.+Dance+Of+The+Seven+Veils+From+%22Salome%22.mp3
Manouche: "Miri Louloudi", 1989 (with permission)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtzBs5bSIE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

May 24, 2025 • 35min
BONUS - No thing is just one thing
*** SUPPORT A SECOND SEASON ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
This week Alex gets to quiz the show's cultural historian, Dr Debbie Challis, starting with the obvious question: What the hell is a cultural historian?
Listen to Debbie explain her complicated on-again-off-again love affair with the classical and the classic - but also Greece itself. And her battle to be heard without being labelled and filed away - something which every contributor to this podcast seems to share; a compulsion to explore not just our allotted piece of the puzzle, but how the pieces connect.
_________________
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other.
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
_____________
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

May 11, 2025 • 57min
6. Cassandra - Everything Must Be Said Again
*** SUPPORT SEASON 2 OF PODYSSEY ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other.
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
…
There is an elegant symmetry to Cassandra being misunderstood - still, millennia later - as a symbol for pessimism. A prophet of doom. But that wasn’t her curse at all. Her curse was to have true insight and yet be unable to get those around her to listen.
And is the reason we prioritise some voices over others not the central, existential question at a time when real knowledge struggles to make itself heard over a chorus of populism? What wooden horses have we let through our cities’ gates?
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global
NOTES
MUSIC
Oluf Dimitri Røe: “Fajum” ON YOUTUBE
Aldo Ciccolini: Erik Satie “Gnossiennes No.1 FROM ARCHIVE
Lulu Belle: “Never take ‘no’ for an answer” FROM ARCHIVE
ON ft Marianna Sangita: “Et Glimt” ON YOUTUBE
Risë Stevens: Bizet; Carmen “Card Scene” FROM ARCHIVE
Betty Lou Allen: J.S.C. Bach; Cassandra Cantata FROM ARCHIVE
Fedora Barbieri: Verdi; Un Ballo in Maschera “Re dell’abisso” FROM ARCHIVE
Marisa Ferrer & Charles Cambon: Berlioz; Les Troyens "Reviens a toi, vierge adorée” FROM ARCHIVE
Anna Maria Alberghetti: “They didn’t believe me” FROM ARCHIVE
FILM
Helen of Troy 1956 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049301/
Scream 2 1997 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120082/
The Matrix 1999 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/
The Eyes of Laura Mars 1978 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077530/
Doctor Sleep 2019 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5606664/
Nightmare Alley 2021 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7740496/
Agamemnon 1983 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyouI7BUsI
Promising Young Woman 2020 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9620292/
Kaos 2024 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8550732/
Don't Look Up 2021 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11286314/
ART
Attic Red cup with the taking of Cassandra
Terracotta amphora with the taking of Cassandra
Evelyn de Morgan's Cassandra
Pompeii mosaic of Ajax dragging Cassandra from Palladium.
Solomon J. Solomon's Ajax & Cassandra
Ronsard's "Avant le temps tes tempes fleuriront"
Louise Bogan's "Cassandra" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

May 3, 2025 • 43min
BONUS - Archaeology: The Art of Interpreting Science
*** SUPPORT A SECOND SEASON ON KO-FI.COM/PODYSSEY ***
This week we meet the show's archaeologist, Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, and talk about her profession: What it used to be, what it is now, and what it isn't. The romantic ideas of it and how far they are from the practical reality... And why nothing can substitute being in a place, touching, smelling, hearing, and feeling the context of what is unearthed from below.
_________________
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other.
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
_____________
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apr 28, 2025 • 1h 11min
5. Persephone Part II - You Do Something To Me
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other.
Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new!
…
Persephone has been assigned the story of a victim, but bears none of the hallmarks. Why has this magnificent Queen been reduced to a Page 3 girl?
Written and presented by Alex Andreou
Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith
Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell
Music by Marianna Sangita
Artwork by Simona Kanellou
For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global
NOTES
Will be added in a few hours Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apr 28, 2025 • 43min
3b. BONUS - The Making of Podyssey
Naomi Smith gets the behind the scenes skinny on Podyssey from Alex Andreou. Where did the idea come from? What's coming up in Season 2? What is the most surprising fact so far? Lots of exclusive access, previews, and exclusive announcements. … The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other. Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new! … Written and presented by Alex Andreou Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell Music by Marianna SangitaArtwork by Simona Kanellou For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apr 28, 2025 • 1h 32min
4. Persephone Part I - If You Can't Be Free, Be A Mystery
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other. Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new! … Persephone has been assigned the story of a victim, but bears none of the hallmarks. Why has this magnificent Queen been reduced to a Page 3 girl? Written and presented by Alex Andreou Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell Music by Marianna SangitaArtwork by Simona Kanellou For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global NOTES MUSIC Podyssey Theme - “To Margoudi ki o Alexandris” Marianna Sangita - YOUTUBE.“Kori” (Acoustic) Marianna Sangita - YOUTUBE“Kori” (Album Version) ON - YOUTUBECamille Saint-Saëns “Danse Macabre”, Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra - ARCHIVE Claudio Monteverdi “Addio Roma” from L’Incoronazione di Poppea - ARCHIVE Antonio Vivaldi “Autumn” from The four Seasons - ARCHIVE Heitor Villa Lobos “Bachianas Brasileiras No.5”, Bidu Sayao - ARCHIVE Giacomo Puccini “Flower Duet” from Madama Butterfly, Renata Tebaldi/Nell Ranking - ARCHIVE Francesco Sacrati “E dove t’aggirli” from Proserpina, Victoria de los Angeles - YOUTUBE “Sobbin’ Women” from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Howard Keel - ARCHIVEFrancesco Cilea “Esser madre e un inferno” from L’Arlesiana, Ebe Stignani - ARCHIVE “Am I blue” Ethel Waters - YOUTUBE Amilcare Ponchielli “Oh Madre Mia” Act I finale from La Gioconda, Maria Callas/Maria Amadini - ARCHIVE WA Mozart “Lacrimosa” from Requiem, Eugen Jochum - ARCHIVE Kurt Weill “September Song”, Sarah Vaughan - ARCHIVE FILM“The Goddess of Spring” (1934) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zvnAypUSJsChildren of Men (2006) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/ Lady Bird (2017)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4925292/ Terms of Endearment (1983) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086425/ Steel Magnolias (1989) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098384/ ARTWORK Two examples of a Melian amphoras, with Kore figure, c. 6thC BCE here and here. “Hades Abducting Persephone” fresco Vergina 4C BCE “Statue of Isis-Persephone holding a sistrum” marble statue Gortyn 180-190 CE“Head of Persephone” earthenware Centuripae, c.420 BCE“Bronze statuette of a female votary with pomegranate” 4th–3rd century BCE“Persephone and Hades” red-figure kylix Vulci, c. 440-430 BCE“The abduction of Persephone by Hades” terracotta hydria c. 340–330 BCE“Persephone on the Throne” terracotta tablet Locri, 470 BCE“Enthroned Deity” (probably Persephone) Taranto, c. 480-470 BCEBernini Gian Lorenzo “Rape of Proserpine” Peter Paul Rubens “The Rape of Proserpine” Luca Giordano “The Abduction of Proserpina” Maxfield Parrish “Proserpina and the Sea Nymphs”Hiram Powers “Proserpine”Dante Gabriel Rossetti eighth and final version of “Proserpine”READINGTaffy Brodesser-Akner “Let’s Go to Jerusalem for Soup Again” Sor Juana Inez de la Cruz, Marian Villancico Edna St Vincent Millay “Prayer to Persephone”Rita Dove “Canary” Rita Dove “The Bistro Styx” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

13 snips
Apr 28, 2025 • 1h 29min
3. King Midas - All That Glitters
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other. Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new! … When was it - and why? - that the cautionary tale of King Midas, a myth about the absurdity of excess, the consequences of greed and spectacularly bad judgment, magically transformed into an aspirational example of success? When did we elevate him from lowly figure of fun to a gold penthouse and the Oval Office? Written and presented by Alex Andreou Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell Music by Marianna SangitaArtwork by Simona Kanellou For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global NOTES MUSIC MOZART - A Musical Joke - Vienna Konzerthaus Quartet - PRIVATE COLLECTION GRIEG - Peer Gynt Suite No.1 “In the Hall of the Mountain King” - Eugene Ormandy - PRIVATE COLLECTION BERLIN - After you get what you want you don’t want it - Marilyn Monroe - YOUTUBE ROSSINI - Il Barbiere di Siviglia “Largo al factotum” - Rolando Panerai - YOUTUBE BORODIN/WRIGHT - Kismet “Baubles, Bangles, and Beeds” - Ann Blyth - PRIVATE COLLECTION BERLIN - Call Me Madam “The Money Song” - Dinah Shore - YOUTUBE MENOTTI - Amahl And The Night Visitors “All that gold” - Rosemary Kuhlmann - PRIVATE COLLECTION STRAUSS - Die Liebe der Danae - 1952 Broadcast - PRIVATE COLLECTION PUCCINI - Manon Lescaut “In quelle trine” - Renata Tebaldi - PRIVATE COLLECTION BERNSTEIN - Candide “Glitter and be gay” - Roberta Peters - YOUTUBE BACH - "Geschwinde, Geschwinde, Ihr Wirbelnden Winde", BWV 201 - PRIVATE COLLECTION GOUNOD - Faust “Le veau d’or” - Nicolai Ghiaurov - Public Television - YOUTUBE All that glitters is not gold - Mildred Bailey - YOUTUBE FILMDoctor Who: A Christmas Carol (2010) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1672218/ Wall Street (1987) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094291/ The Wolf of Wall Street (2013) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993846/ Goodfellas (1990) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099685/ Scarface (1983) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086250/ Big (1988) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094737/ Trading Places (1983) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/ Limitless (2011) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1219289/ Avengers: Infinity War (2018) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154756/ Goldfinger (1964) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058150/ ARTWORK Silenus riding a donkey The Judgment of Midas by Nicolas Mignard, 1667. King Midas Judging the Musical Contest between Apollo and Pan, by Filippo Lauri, c1650-1694 LIFE magazine Goldfinger cover. Images of Ancient Gordion Midas Gate in Anatolia Map of Ancient Anatolia Electrum coins Gold Croeseid Andy Warhol - Dollar Signs “Siren” by Marc Quinn (2008) “America” by Maurizio Cattelan (2016) “Madonna and child” by Sandro Boticelli (1480-81)“Portrait of Adele Bloch-Bauer I” by Gustav Klimt (1907) Ceiling Paintings by Gustav Klimt (1894) Gold Death Mask (Tomb V, Mycenae) Meowdas (fortnite) READINGProust “Mensonges” dedication “King Midas” by Howard Moss “Mrs. Midas” by Carol Ann Duffy Essay on Gold and Melancholy John Lyly’s "King Midas" “The Reading Mother” by Strickland Gillilan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apr 28, 2025 • 17min
2b. BONUS - The Music of Podyssey
The myths, tales, and concepts of ancient Greece echo and reach into every aspect of modern life. Often misunderstood, frequently romanticised, and sometimes deliberately twisted - to understand their origins and truth is to get a real glimpse into the universal themes that connect us to the past and each other. Welcome to Podyssey with Alex Andreou. Each week we will take one myth, one concept, person, place, or theme from Ancient Greece, take it apart, figure out its inner workings, trace its influence, juice it for its wisdom, reimagine, update and put it back together - all shiny and new! … This week we meet the creator of the theme tune and much of the music on Podyssey - Musician Marianna Sangita. WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/A-xAKBPuSaQ SUBSCRIBE TO PODYSSEY ON YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo7dIXWHNar1u1rKsXUTgYnDhJebTp-eo FULL VIDEO OF PODYSSEY THEME (To Margoudi ki O Alexandris) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LAVj5l9Uc MARIANNA SANGITA'S FULL MUSIC:https://www.mariannasangita.com/ADDITIONAL TRACKSGLAROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGrYHF7jLA ON's KORI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zegho00jHVc&list=OLAK5uy_nv3aKiRBefjqqnpo05P__0py_gwnIdDsw&index=4 Written and presented by Alex Andreou Expert contributions by Alexandra Angeletaki-Røe, Debbie Challis, Linda Marric, and Dr Ruth Smith Exec. Producers Naomi Smith & Kenny Campbell Music by Marianna SangitaArtwork by Simona Kanellou For Cooler Heads, in collaboration with Sandstone Global Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices