
Energy Policy Now
Energy Policy Now offers clear talk on the policy issues that define our relationship to energy and its impact on society and the environment. The series is produced by the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania and hosted by energy journalist Andy Stone. Join Andy in conversation with leaders from industry, government, and academia as they shed light on today's pressing energy policy debates.
Latest episodes

Sep 27, 2022 • 50min
Scaling Green Hydrogen for a Global Market
Green hydrogen hubs are being developed in some of the world’s most remote locations, to serve growing clean energy demand in Asia, Europe and the U.S. --- Alicia Eastman, President of Intercontinental Energy, discusses the nascent global market for green hydrogen and her company’s development of more than 100 gigawatts of hydrogen production hubs along coastal deserts in the Arabian Peninsula and Australia. Eastman explores the economic and policy factors, including the Inflation Reduction Act in the U.S., that are driving the market for green hydrogen, which has the potential to serve as a substitute for fossil fuels in hard-to-decarbonize industries including steel and cement production, aviation and shipping. She also talks about the challenges that the development of green hydrogen infrastructure can present to local communities, and efforts to include these communities in project governance. Alicia Eastman is President of Intercontinental Energy. She is a graduate of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. Related Content Regulating Utility-Scale Solar Projects on Agricultural Land https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/regulating-utility-scale-solar-projects-on-agricultural-land/ Balancing Act: Can Petrochemicals Be Both Emissions Free and Zero-Waste? https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/balancing-act-can-petrochemicals-be-both-emissions-free-and-zero-waste/ Europe Maps Out Its Hydrogen Energy Strategy (Podcast) https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/europe-maps-out-its-hydrogen-energy-strategy/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sep 13, 2022 • 44min
Saudi Arabia Confronts Its Oil Dependence
A former senior U.S. diplomat to Saudi Arabia explores the kingdom’s effort to end its dependence on oil revenue, and the relationship between Saudi Arabia and global efforts to decarbonize. --- Saudi Arabia is the world’s leading exporter of oil. Yet it is also a country that is in the midst of an ambitious drive to end its dependence on oil revenue as the foundation of its national economy. Saudi Arabia’s effort to economically diversify follows a decade of oil market volatility that has added to a host of economic and political challenges faced by the ruling Al Saud family. Looking ahead, the global effort to move away from fossil fuels, and address climate change, could make Saudi Arabia’s overreliance on oil ever more risky. David Rundell, former Chief of Mission at the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia and author Vision and Mirage, Saudi Arabia at the Crossroads, explores the kingdom’s efforts to diversify away from oil. Rundell also discusses Saudi Arabia’s perspective on the global effort to decarbonize, and America’s tense relationship with its longtime energy ally. Related Content East Meets West: Linking the China and EU ETS’s https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/east-meets-west-linking-the-china-and-eu-etss/ Leveraging Clean Energy to Alleviate Regional Water Stress https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/leveraging-clean-energy-to-alleviate-regional-water-stress/ Have We Reached Peak Carbon Emissions? https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/have-we-reached-peak-carbon-emissions/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Aug 2, 2022 • 40min
Can Clean Energy Deliver Energy Justice to Canada’s First Nations?
A prominent advocate for indigenous rights in Canada sees promise in clean energy. --- The Canadian province of Alberta is home to the Oil Sands, a vast subarctic region that is rich in crude oil, and which has been a focus of controversy for decades over the environmental and climate impacts of the fossil fuel mining that takes place there. Melina Laboucan-Massimo, a prominent indigenous rights advocate and member of the Lubicon Cree Nation, discusses her community’s ongoing struggle to overcome the impact of environmental, health and cultural damage from surrounding Oil Sands development, and the potential for clean energy to empower First Nation communities. Melina Laboucan-Massimo has for more than a decade been an activist on behalf of indigenous communities that have been impacted by the development of fossil fuels. Her television program, Power to the People, explores the role that clean energy is playing in building energy independence among First Nation communities. Melina is the co-founder of Indigenous Climate Action, a Climate Fellow at the David Suzuki Foundation, and the founder of Sacred Earth Solar. Related Content Renewable Energy and Indigenous Communities https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/events/renewable-energy-and-indigenous-communities/ Barriers to Energy Efficiency Adoption in Low-Income Communities https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/barriers-to-energy-efficiency-adoption-in-low-income-communities/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jul 19, 2022 • 43min
Proposed FERC Rules Aim to Accelerate Grid Decarbonization
The United States’ electricity regulator has proposed two major electricity market reforms that could speed the pace of renewable energy development. --- In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of proposed clean energy projects in the United States. In fact, the amount of clean energy that’s waiting in line to connect to the nation’s electric grid is greater than the total installed generating capacity on the grid today. The prospect of so much clean energy in waiting is a bright spot in the larger effort to decarbonize and address climate change. Yet proposed clean energy, and actual clean energy, are two very different things, and the fact is that a number of policy barriers stand in the way of turning so many clean energy proposals into reality. Shelley Welton, a Presidential Distinguished Professor of Law and Energy Policy with the Kleinman Center, discusses proposed policy reforms from the nation’s electricity regulator, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, that aim to remove these barriers to the greening of the electric grid. Welton looks at rules that seek to speed the process for connecting clean energy to the grid, and ensure that the grid is ready to handle all that new clean power. She also discusses the Supreme Court’s recent ruling that narrows the Environmental Protection Agency’s ability to limit greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, and implications the ruling might have for the FERC’s ability to regulate on issues relating to climate change. Shelley Welton is a Presidential Distinguished Professor of Law and Energy Policy with the University of Pennsylvania’s Kleinman Center for Energy Policy and the Penn Carey Law School. Related Content A Dangerous, Even if Expected, Opinion on Climate https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/news-insights/a-dangerous-even-if-expected-opinion-on-climate/ The Economics of Building Electrification https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/the-economics-of-building-electrification/ Massive Shift toward Solar Power Begins in Largest U.S. Electricity Market. https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/massive-shift-toward-solar-power-begins-in-largest-u-s-electricity-market/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jul 5, 2022 • 47min
Can Carbon-Negative Oil Be Climate Positive?
The fossil fuel industry is investing billions of dollars into projects that will use carbon dioxide captured from the air to produce more oil. What will be the climate impact? --- In April the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change identified carbon dioxide removal as an essential tool in the global effort to achieve net zero carbon emissions. One technology-based type of carbon dioxide removal known as direct air capture (DAC) has the potential to reduce net carbon dioxide emission by billions of tons per year. Yet DAC’s high cost raises concern around if and when the technology might be scaled to meaningfully address climate change. Recently, the fossil fuel industry has committed more than $1 billion to support controversial projects that will use captured CO2 to increase production from oil wells, through a process known as enhanced oil recovery (EOR). Pete Psarras, a research assistant professor of Chemical Engineering at the University of Pennsylvania, dives into the controversy over the use of captured CO2 as a tool for low-carbon oil production. He discusses research that examines whether the combination of DAC + EOR might lead to net climate benefits or damages, and explores frameworks for effective governance of the technology. Pete Psarras is a research assistant professor of Chemical Engineering at the University of Pennsylvania. His work focuses on carbon dioxide removal and carbon capture. Related Content How Will Energy Dollars in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law Be Spent? https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/how-will-energy-dollars-in-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-be-spent/ Achieving Net-Zero Emissions in The State of Michigan. https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/research-projects/achieving-net-zero-emissions-in-the-state-of-michigan/ A Primer on Carbon Dioxide Removal https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/a-primer-on-carbon-dioxide-removal/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jun 21, 2022 • 25min
Will Defense Production Act Spur Solar Supply Chain Development?
An expert in international trade policy discusses the Biden Administration’s use of the Defense Production Act, and tariff restrictions, to build a competitive US solar supply chain. --- In early June the Biden Administration invoked the Defense Production Act in an effort to rebuild America’s domestic solar energy manufacturing supply. Simultaneously, the Administration announced that it will prohibit for two years new tariffs on imports of solar cells from four Southeast Asian countries that are under investigation for illegal trade practices involving their solar industries. Through these complementary policies, the Administration aims to accelerate solar power development in the US in the near term, and ultimately to displace solar imports and strengthen US energy security. The policies are controversial, and have implications for domestic industry and the pace of decarbonization, and the rule of law. Robert Scott, Senior Economist and Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Research at the Economic Policy Institute, offers a closer look at the Defense Production Act and its potential to spur the development of a robust solar supply chain in the US. Scott examines the policies and trade dynamics that led to China’s dominance in the global solar supply chain, and how the DPA and related trade and industrial policies might create the foundation for a competitive domestic solar manufacturing industry. Robert Scott is Senior Economist and Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Research at the Economic Policy Institute. Related Content East Meets West: Linking the China and EU ETS’s https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/east-meets-west-linking-the-china-and-eu-etss/ The Not-So-Rare Earth Elements: A Question of Supply and Demand https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/the-not-so-rare-earth-elements-a-question-of-supply-and-demand/ China’s Energy and Climate Balancing Act https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/chinas-energy-and-climate-balancing-act/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jun 14, 2022 • 31min
How Will Energy Dollars in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law Be Spent?
Advanced Energy Economy’s Leah Rubin Shen discusses energy spending priorities in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. --- In November President Biden signed into law the signature legislation of his Presidency to date, the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill, also known as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The bill includes more than $100 billion dollars in funding for clean energy technology, infrastructure and climate preparedness, making it the most significant federal commitment to clean energy and climate to date. Leah Rubin Shen, a policy director with Advanced Energy Economy, discusses spending priorities for energy-focused dollars in the infrastructure bill. Leah also explores the limitations of infrastructure bill funding, and state and federal spending priorities that AEE is advocating for. Advanced Energy Economy is a national business association that advocates for clean energy and transportation on behalf of U.S. technology and clean energy companies. Leah Rubin Shen is a policy director with Advanced Energy Economy. Related Content Leveraging Clean Energy to Alleviate Regional Water Stress https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/leveraging-clean-energy-to-alleviate-regional-water-stress/ Organized Labor Sees Promise in Transition to Clean Energy https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/organized-labor-sees-promise-in-transition-to-clean-energy/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jun 7, 2022 • 42min
Raw Materials Pose ESG Challenge for EV Industry
Two experts on mining industry governance explore environmental and social challenges around the mining of cobalt, a critical material in EV batteries, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. --- This is the third episode in our series that explores governance challenges surrounding the transition to clean energy. The International Energy Agency forecasts that electric vehicles could account for a third of the global new car market by the end of this decade. While the prospect of a growing fleet of EVs is good news for the climate, the emergence of electric vehicles raises its own set of sustainability challenges. One area of notable concern surrounds the raw materials that are used in EV batteries, which may be sourced from regions of the world where environmental and social governance are weak. This reality runs counter to the sustainable promise of the clean energy transition and has raised concern among clean technology companies, EV manufacturers, and ESG-minded investors. David Manley and Hervé Lado of the Natural Resource Governance Institute explore the environmental and human realities surrounding the production of one such material, cobalt, which is an essential element in the lithium-ion batteries that power most electric vehicles. The majority of cobalt is produced in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, an impoverished and environmentally sensitive country that has attracted attention as demand for cobalt has grown. Manley and Lado discuss efforts to improve oversight of the cobalt value chain, and what’s potentially at stake for the clean energy transition, and economies that are dependent on raw materials production, should ESG concerns not be adequately addressed. David Manley is a senior economic analyst with the Natural Resource Governance Institute. Hervé Lado is NRGI’s West and Central Africa regional manager. Related Content Governing Net-Zero Emissions Targets https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/governing-net-zero-emissions-targets/ Governing the Promise and Peril of Emerging Climate Technologies https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/governing-the-promise-and-peril-of-emerging-climate-technologies/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

May 24, 2022 • 36min
Governing Net-Zero Emissions Targets
As net zero carbon targets become commonplace, strong governance will be needed to ensure climate benefits.--- This is the second episode in a three-part series exploring governance challenges surrounding the transition to clean energy. In recent years a flood of net zero emissions targets have been set by companies, municipalities, and countries around the world. In fact, over-two thirds of the global economy is now covered by net zero targets that aim to zero out greenhouse gas emissions and slow and ideally halt the process of climate change. Yet, while the quantity of net zero targets has multiplied, the quality of many of these targets is questionable. Many targets are voluntary and, too frequently, not subject to reliable oversight. At the same time, political realities can present steep hurdles to governments that might seek to establish robust, enforceable net zero targets at the national level. Thomas Hale, associate professor in global public policy at the University of Oxford discusses the need for strong governance structures to ensure that net zero targets deliver the carbon neutrality that they promise. Hale explores what, exactly, constitutes a robust net zero target, governance frameworks for credible and enforceable targets and the hurdles, political and otherwise, to achieving robust governance. Thomas Hale is an associate professor in global public policy at the University of Oxford and visiting scholar at the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy. His work focuses on the management of transnational problems, with a focus on environmental, economic and health issues. Related Content Net-Zero Nevada: From Pledge to Action https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/net-zero-nevada-from-pledge-to-action/ Guidelines for Successful, Sustainable Nature-Based Solutions https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/guidelines-for-successful-sustainable-nature-based-solutions/ For Solar Geoengineering, Daunting Policy Questions Await https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/for-solar-geoengineering-daunting-policy-questions-await/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

May 10, 2022 • 40min
Governing the Promise and Peril Of Emerging Climate Technologies
Shuchi Talati, former chief of staff of the Department of Energy’s Office of Fossil Energy & Carbon Management, discusses the need for strong governance to balance the potential benefits of carbon dioxide removal technologies with environmental and social risks. --- This episode is the first in a three-part series that will explore governance challenges surrounding the transition to clean energy. In early April, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its latest assessment report, which warned that the global carbon budget to keep climate warming below 1.5 degrees Celsius is quickly being exhausted, and that the use of technologies to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere has become “unavoidable” if climate damages are to be limited. The report has been followed by announcements from leading technology companies of more than $2 billion dollars in commitments to commercialize carbon dioxide removal (CDR) technologies. The IPCC report, and financing commitments, point to increasing acceptance of emerging climate technologies that were once viewed as options of last resort to address climate change. In the podcast Shuchi Talati, scholar in residence with the Forum for Climate Engineering Assessment at American University, discusses the governance of these emerging climate technologies which, despite their promise, raise concerns around their potential impacts on ecosystems, economies and issues of social equity, and even over the pace of decarbonization itself. Shuchi Talati is scholar in residence with the Forum for Climate Engineering Assessment at American University, and former chief of staff for the Office of Fossil Energy & Carbon Management at the Department of Energy. Related Content For Solar Geoengineering, Daunting Policy Questions Await https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/podcast/for-solar-geoengineering-daunting-policy-questions-await/ Guidelines for Successful, Sustainable, Nature-Based Solutions. https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/guidelines-for-successful-sustainable-nature-based-solutions/ Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.eduSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.