Ibogaine Uncovered

David Nassim is the co-director of Blessings of the Forest (BOTF), an organization that supports environmental and traditionalist associations, Indigenous communities and administrative authorities committed to the preservation and sustainable development of Gabon’s natural and cultural heritage – including the preservation of iboga, the West African plant from which ibogaine is derived. David is also the organization’s international relations and finance officer, and a practitioner and Chinese medicine consultant. You might remember David from our interview at Psychedelic Science 2023, featured in Episode 16. What we discuss: The work that BOTF does and its role in the iboga supply chain The Nagoya Protocol: What it is, and how it informs the protection of the iboga plant and the communities that use it  The unseen challenges of working closely with a large number of different organizations, associations, and communities The role of iboga in David’s life, and the different Bwiti traditions that he has worked with How iboga is viewed globally: the different interpretations and understandings in the United States and Gabon What is at the root of the reverence Gabonese people have for iboga? The implications of Western interest, namely the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Program and its interest in ibogaine What questions to ask when determining how a practitioner has obtained iboga/ibogaine Is there any overlap between what you’ve learned from Chinese Medicine, and from your work with iboga? Why it’s important:  In North America, ibogaine is a compound that most people associate with opioid use disorder, but in West Africa, specifically in Gabon, ibogaine is just one part of a much greater whole. In this episode, David Nassim explains in great detail the implications of increased global interest in the iboga plant for the Bwiti communities that depend on it. By leaning on the Nagoya Protocol on Access and Benefit-sharing, Blessings of the Forest is working to protect and preserve iboga while building meaningful relationships directly with communities that require support. David’s insights and understanding bring the issue of reciprocity into sharp focus, and challenge us to consider the global implications of pursuing a treatment like ibogaine. Relevant Links: Blessings of the Forest website The Nagoya Protocol on Access and Benefit-sharing Blessings of the Forest on Instagram Lucid News story featuring David: Gabon Takes First Step Toward Legal Export of Sustainable Iboga Ibogaine Uncovered: Episode 16 - The State of Ibogaine: A Psychedelic Science Recap ICEERS Report - The Future of Iboga: Perspectives from Central Africa

Dr. Gül Dölen, MD, PhD, is an associate professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins University. In her lab, her team focuses on how the brain enables social behaviors through basic neurobiological processes such as neuromodulation and synaptic plasticity. Dölen has led several headline-making studies in the psychedelic field, including one in 2018 that involved giving MDMA to octopuses, and a more recent study that revealed psychedelics can reopen the “critical period” in the brain. What we discuss: How Dr. Dölen became interested in studying psychedelics after focusing on learning and memory as well as the pathogenesis of autism The study that turned things around: why study the effects of psychedelics in an evolutionarily distant species like the octopus? What giving octopuses MDMA revealed about their normally solitary behavior The implications in the world of psychedelic science after studying their effects on this kind of animal Defining critical periods: What are they? What are the benefits of experiencing a critical period? Dr. Dölen’s hypothesis: Could psychedelics be the “master key” to reopening critical periods? Which drugs are best at reopening critical periods? Where does ibogaine stand? Are there any risks associated with experiencing an abundance of critical periods? The problem with the word ‘plasticity’ Why it’s important:  Dr. Dölen’s pioneering research–both the study of MDMA in octopuses and her more recent work on unlocking critical periods–allows us to look at psychedelic drugs in different ways: in evolutionarily distant species with entirely different brain structures, and as “master keys” that could potentially unlock those periods. While there aren’t many studies that put different psychedelic drugs on a spectrum of efficacy, her work shows that among MDMA, LSD, psilocybin, and ketamine, ibogaine leads the way when it comes to opening critical periods – a piece of information that (hopefully) encourages more scientists in the psychedelic space to study this powerful medicine.  Relevant Links: Dr. Dölen’s faculty profile on Johns Hopkins Dr. Dölen, Center for Psychedelic & Consciousness Research, JHU Spectrum News: In Deep Water with Gül Dölen The Tim Ferriss Show: Dr. Gül Dölen  dölenLAB  Nature: Octopuses on ecstasy just want a cuddle Wired: The Psychedelic Scientist Who Sends Brains Back to Childhood The Microdose: 5 Questions for Gul Dolen

Talia Eisenberg, co-founder of Beond, and Vianey Perez, VP of clinical operations, dive into the vital intake process for ibogaine treatment. They discuss how individuals can navigate their journey towards healing, the thorough medical screening involved, and what makes a good candidate for treatment. Topics such as potential challenges clients may face, red flags during the intake, and the role of medical professionals in providing personalized care are explored. Their insights aim to alleviate anxieties related to pursuing ibogaine therapy.

This episode is a little different. Join host Amanda Siebert for an ibogaine-focused recap of the 2023 MAPS Psychedelic Science conference. This episode features audio clips from the closing ceremony featuring Norma Lotsof, and an in-person interview with David Nassim, the co-director of Blessings of the Forest. Topics of discussion: three ongoing ibogaine studies and the researchers behind them Lucy Walker’s latest film, Of Night and Light: The Story of Iboga and Ibogaine, and the (long overdue) recognition of Norma Lotsof the role of veterans in relation to psychedelic policy efforts in Kentucky to study ibogaine for opioid use disorder the implications of increased ibogaine use in North America for communities in Gabon (where iboga is harvested) the important work of the non-profit organization Blessings of the Forest Why it’s important:  Amanda’s mission in attending Psychedelic Science 2023 was to learn as much as she could about where ibogaine is at, not just from a medical or political standpoint, but from a cultural one, too. Tune in to hear her relay knowledge from experts who have been critical to the support we see for ibogaine treatment and therapy, and from advocates who are doing the challenging work of ensuring that this medicine is harvested and used in a sustainable way. Relevant Links: Psychedelic Science 2023 Dr. Nolan Williams’ Pilot Study Dr. Jose Carlos Bouso’s Pilot Study Dr. Deborah Mash’s Study Lucy Walker on Instagram Of Night and Light on Deadline.com Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS) Recent Lucid News story on Kentucky initiative by Noah Daly Blessings of the Forest ICCERS Indigenous Medicine Conservations Fund

David Bronner is the CEO – that’s Cosmic Engagement Officer – of Dr. Bronner’s, a fifth-generation soap maker, and a board member of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies. At the helm of the company started by his grandfather in 1948, David is a leader in the fight for GMO labeling, industrial hemp farming in the United States, high-bar organic and fair trade standards, fair minimum wage, and drug policy reform.  What we discuss: How a profound psychedelic experience took David from an apolitical college graduate and set him on the path to becoming a counter cultural thought leader I ask him What it means to be passionate about “the responsible integration of psychedelic medicine into  American culture” – especially within the capitalistic framework within which we exist Dr. Bronner being the first company in the U.S. to offer ketamine-assisted therapy as part of employee health coverage How David found iboga through his friend and former Navy SEAL Marcus Capone What iboga/ibogaine can do for the veteran population  Will we see the mainstreaming of ibogaine like we have with psilocybin? What David’s favorite integration tools are Parallels between the overharvesting of certain plant medicines and industrial agriculture Why it’s important:  Given all the ongoing evil in the world, it can be easy to feel swallowed up by capitalism – to feel stuck, hopeless, and afraid for the future. My conversation with David reminded me that even within an ill-structured system, it takes just a few people in positions of leadership – people like David and David’s father and grandfather –  to spark change and inspire more holistic business practices, and ultimately, more holistic ways of living.  Relevant Links: Rolling Stone Interview (May 2023) New York Times Profile (Feb 2022) Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS) Dr. Bronner’s on Instagram Time Magazine story about Marcus Capone’s experience with Ibogaine (April 2021) Blog about David Bronner’s experience with iboga Iboga and ibogaine safety panel featuring David Bronner (April 2020)

Dr. Deborah Mash is a pioneering researcher of ibogaine and one of the world’s foremost experts on the drug. She is a professor (emeritus) of neurology and molecular and cellular pharmacology at the University of Miami School of Medicine, and the founder and CEO of DemeRx, a company developing treatments for opioid use disorder.  What we discuss: How Dr. Mash first became interested in ibogaine, including her connection to Howard Lotsof, an early ibogaine advocate The structure of the ibogaine molecule and what makes it unique from other psychedelics Dr. Mash’s early research: the first clinical studies of ibogaine in humans Noribogaine: what it is and what it does  Ibogaine fatalities: is everyone who takes it is at equal risk of death? How far have we come in terms of reframing our view of substance use disorder? If ibogaine was rescheduled, what could the future of treatment look like? Why it’s important:  In the excitement of the psychedelic renaissance, it can feel like all of this is “new.” It’s often said that there isn't enough research to support the use of ibogaine in a clinical setting, but Dr. Mash’s work is part of a growing body of evidence that proves otherwise. Reconciling her work and the stories you’ve heard on this show with the fact that ibogaine is still a Schedule I substance in the United States – meaning it has no medical value and a high potential for abuse – is hard to do. Understanding and working to change drug policy through research is a long game. We’re lucky that an expert like Dr. Mash is staying on the field. Relevant Links: Dr. Mash’s research: Breaking the cycle of opioid use disorder with Ibogaine (2017) Noribogaine is a G-protein biased κ-opioid receptor agonist (2015 Medication Development of Ibogaine as a Pharmacotherapy for Drug Dependence (2006) Ibogaine: Complex Pharmacokinetics, Concerns for Safety, and Preliminary Efficacy Measures (2006) Identification of a primary metabolite of ibogaine that targets serotonin transporters and elevates serotonin (1995) Dr. Mash’s company, DemeRx 1996 Interview with Dr. Deborah Mash (archived) Dr. Mash’s Twitter

Caroline Lee is a death doula, therapist, and photographer based in Oakland, California, where she is currently training to become a somatic psychologist and psychedelic therapist. She had the opportunity to receive ibogaine treatment about eight months ago.  What we discuss: What is a death doula? What does it mean to be in relationship with death, and why is this an important relationship to consider? How Caroline envisions psychedelics fitting into our rituals around death, if laws were changed and psychedelics were available at end-of-life for people suffering from palliative anxiety The potential applications of ibogaine for palliative anxiety and more, from a therapist’s perspective Should therapists be required to take psychedelics if they want to offer psychedelic-assisted therapy? How ibogaine helped Caroline process the grief she experienced after a divorce that marked the end of a 16-year relationship  What death and the end of relationships have in common What Caroline’s work as a doula and a therapist have taught her about the role of grief Why it’s important:  You’ve heard it said before but I feel like it needs to be said more often: death is a part of life – and this conversation really showed me that talking about it openly isn’t morbid or negative or inherently bad in any way - it’s a way for us to stay more connected to the present moment. Feeling into the grief that we feel when someone dies, or when a relationship ends, expands our capacity for emotion – and using psychedelics including ibogaine can allow us to not only come to terms with those emotions, but arrive at a feeling of peace around our own mortality.  Relevant Links: Caroline’s Instagram Caroline’s TikTok Caroline’s Website Study: Psilocybin for end-of-life anxiety

Troy Casey is a holistic health practitioner and life coach who has spent the last 20 years helping people to eat, move, and feel better. Known as Certified Health Nut on YouTube and Instagram, Troy is an authority on longevity and leading a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. He’s also the author of Ripped at 50: A Journey to Self Love. What we discuss: Troy’s reason for undergoing ibogaine treatment. As someone who lives a very healthy lifestyle, I ask the obvious question: why might someone like Troy seek out ibogaine?  Social media and vulnerability: is there a difference between what people see on social media, and what’s going on in the background?  Troy’s goal of Finding balance in a world where so much of what we consume works against our physical and mental health How ibogaine has helped him “get out of his own way” How anger has manifested in Troy’s life, and what might be at the root of it Creating space for anger while learning to shed bravado and “toxic” masculinity  Why it’s important:  In a world where we’re being more encouraged to feel our emotions, anger is one we still have trouble with. Anger or rage issues are incredibly common, affecting about 10 percent of Americans pre-covid – and after we’ve all suffered an extended period of isolation, the feelings we’ve suppressed are increasingly coming out in violent ways. Dealing with it can be a challenge. Troy’s experience with ibogaine sheds light on the inner battles that we face, and his response to it reinforces the idea that no human is ever “finished” their healing – or as Troy puts it, no one every truly “arrives” - and having that belief can sometimes be our downfall.  Relevant Links: Troy’s website Troy’s Instagram Troy’s YouTube channel Troy’s book, Ripped At 50: A Journey To Self Love

Julia Reibelt is a director at Evolve Ventures and Foundation, and a former independent consultant for MAPS, with an MBA from Columbia Business School. Julia has put her corporate background to use in the burgeoning psychedelic space. She’s also spreading the word about psychedelics on TikTok with her account, @findjules, where she has over 100k followers.  What we discuss: Some of the common misconceptions that Julia’s heard from her audience about psychedelics and ibogaine  Julia’s previous experiences with plant medicine, which helped her to overcome diagnoses including eating disorders, C-PTSD, PMDD and depression. Did this work better prepare her for ibogaine?  What separates ibogaine from other plant medicines The “blueprint for life” given to Julia by ibogaine intended to help her maintain clarity How Julia manages her relationship with social media post-ibogaine Julia’s primary lesson from ibogaine: what is the language of the heart? Why it’s important:  If we believe that ibogaine is a tool that can help us achieve better mental, physical, and spiritual health, it’s important that we remember to use it in conjunction with other tools. Julia’s experience teaches us that, one) it’s never just plant medicine alone that can help us move through challenging periods in our lives, and 2) the answers we seek outside of ourselves – and often from plant medicine – exist within us. It comes down to our ability to tune in and listen to the language of our own hearts. Relevant Links: Julia’s TikTok Julia’s Instagram Julia’s LinkedIn Sign up for Julia’s newsletter Eating disorder statistics via ANAD

Originally from the United Kingdom, Dr. Kate Stone is a creative scientist, physicist, engineer and tech founder living in Los Angeles. She is the founder and CEO at Novalia, where she and her team create interactive posters and other everyday objects that embody the magic of interactivity and connectivity. Think posters that talk, books that turn into pianos, and walls that play music. She’s also an avid adventurer, a parent, and keynote speaker. What we discuss: Coming into her ibogaine treatment, Dr. Kate had almost no experience with psychedelic drugs. We talk about her fears and expectations, and how she hoped an experience with ibogaine might help with her depression and anxiety. Dr. Kate’s experience of witnessing the most powerful moments of her life, and the impact that has had on how she lives her life from one day to the next and where she chooses to put her focus Feeling low post-ibogaine, and how those experiences have given her a better understanding of what triggers her depression How ibogaine helped Dr. Kate feel more connected to the needs of her body The impact of having a digital detox and the value of not having a smart phone for a few days Why it’s important: It’s a common misconception that a single powerful experience with a psychedelic can “get rid” of our mental health issues – but the reality is, even when we’re doing the work to feel better, we will still face highs and sometimes, earth shattering lows in life. Dr Kate’s experience illustrates that a journey with ibogaine can provide us with a better understanding of what prompts our depression and anxiety, and with a sense of compassion and resilience for when these feelings might arise again.  Relevant Links: Kate’s website Kate’s Instagram Kate’s Twitter Kate’s company, Novalia Kate’s 2013 TED Talk: DJ Decks Made of… Paper Kate’s 2018 TED Talk: The Press Trampled On My Privacy. Here’s How I Took Back My Story Major depression prevalence in the United States Smart phone use statistics