Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan

In a captivating discussion, Brian L. Cutler, a leading expert in forensics and social psychology, dives into how outdated laws fail to address the complexities of human behavior and social influence. He reveals the psychological mechanisms behind false confessions, the coercive tactics used during police interrogations, and the power of conformity in both historical and digital contexts. Cutler also examines media's role in shaping belief systems and the dangers of biased information, emphasizing the need for critical thinking in today's society.

“Our brain is a like a VR headset. That’s what it is. It renders incoming data streams to interpret different worlds,” David explained. He proposed that we already live in a symbolic universe, such as the trash can on a desktop being merely a symbol of an action taken on a computer. “VR is a much better model to explain what our brains do,” he continued. David Christopher Lane, PhD and I discussed his experiences with the worlds of Virtual Reality (VR), Artificial Intelligence (AI), and neuroscience. I noted that technology could be used for good or evil and that it is essential to have responsible, ethical guidelines for such tools. David agreed, “The bad actors using AI, just like the internet, allowed lots of people to have voices that probably should never have had voices.” He then mentioned how podcasters such as Joe Rogan broadcast a lot of messages that are “not credentialed, not great historians, believing in all sorts of weird stuff.” We spoke about developmental psychology and ideas of mature self-knowledge, including values and beliefs that allow us to investigate and evolve our systems of consciousness and decision-making. David noted that in his critical thinking class, they discussed how one becomes a good critical thinker. “It is our ability and willingness to admit to being wrong or mistaken.” This is a fascinating discussion. AI is here and will get more prominent. Come listen and learn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The highly watched Netflix 2018 documentary Wild Wild Country for people “in the know” was terribly biased. There were no former members. No cult experts. The two people featured were still “true believers in the cult leader, Rajneesh–who was rebranded after his expulsion from the United States as Osho. This cult took over the small town of Antelope, Oregon through deceit and the commune was the relocation from Pune India, where the cult leader had with a history of legal problems, including owing back taxes and claims of drug smuggling. What was missing was what it was actually like to live at the ashram as a child, like Sarito Carroll did til the commune was disbanded due to criminal activities. On this episode of Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum, I spoke with Sarito Carroll, about her 2024 memoir In the Shadow of Enlightenment: A Girl’s Journey Through the Osho Rajneesh Cult, to hear and share more of the real story of what it was like growing up within the cult. Sarito is a passionate writer who was initiated into the cult by Rajneesh himself at nine years old in the late 1970s. She described her latest books as exploring “the complexities of belonging, trauma, the struggle to break free of cultic ties, and the long journey towards self-acceptance.” The book follows her journey to exit the cult and eventually begin a career as a technical writer and attain her Master of Science in Chinese Medicine in 2007, despite never attaining a proper education through the cult. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The future of Public Health depends on protection against unrestrained corporate power. A sicker humanity means increased pain and suffering at large. In the past, we have identified numerous exposures that have made us sick, many of which are addictive, and created shield laws to protect the corporations that peddle them. We also know it’s our most toxic addictions that are killing the planet and its people currently, whether due to climate crisis or ingesting harmful chemical substances. When Big Tobacco tried to convince the world that ingesting tar and nicotine made people healthier (“9 out of 10 doctors smoke Camels”), science revealed otherwise and insisted upon laws to regulate the industry more closely. Robert H. Lustig, M.D., M.S.L suggests that we consider a similar strategy for sugar, particularly the fructose or refined fructose molecules commonly found to be overdosing society through packaged products. Per his biography, he wants to help “fix the food supply any way he can.” Lustig explaine that one of the essential patterns to recognize in battling addiction is the dichotomy between pleasure vs. happiness. Dr. Lustig is an Emeritus Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology and a Member of the Institute for Health Policy Studies at UCSF. He is a neuroendocrinologist with expertise in obesity, diabetes, metabolism, and nutrition. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum, I discussed the steady rise of Pentecostal Christianity with award-winning journalist and author Elle Hardy. Her 2022 book, Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity Is Taking Over the World, details how the charismatic movement has become a global phenomenon, with currently (2025) an estimated 900 million followers worldwide. As I wrote in the Cult of Trump, a key base for true believers are involved with megachurches involving millions of Americans. The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) has transformed Pentecostal Christianity from a spiritual movement to an aggressively politically motivated group. Hardy explains the phenomenon: “They don’t just want to save souls; they want to transform societies.” For example, prominent Pentecostal leaders, such as Paula White-Cain, who is in the current administration, refers to Donald Trump as a modern-day “King Cyrus.” In the Bible, King Cyrus is an imperfect, divinely chosen leader who fulfilled political and social ambitions on behalf of God to help his people. Trump’s portrayal as divinely chosen in these circles is strategically cultivated to amass the group’s support and reshape American politics. Hardy provided insights into the prosperity gospel, describing it as “the faith of the working poor.” This aspect of Pentecostalism attracts marginalized people seeking hope through promises of divine financial blessings in exchange for devotion and sacrifice. However, Hardy pointed out a troubling reality. Vulnerable individuals often give beyond their means, pushing them deeper into poverty through manipulative teachings. Our conversation highlighted how such practices illustrate financial exploitation and reinforce harmful “magical thinking” and loaded language. Authoritarian leaders commonly exploit these techniques to control followers, which are classic signs of undue influence. Unethical practices like these strip people of their critical thinking and autonomy. This conversation was exceptionally interesting. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One of Jane’s most striking points in her book and our conversation is that cults aren’t just something “other people” get involved in. Cults can deceptively recruit anyone and work in many different spheres of influence. “I just started pulling the thread,” Jane recalled, “and traced it back to the Puritans.” She explains how the theological worldview of early American settlers, particularly the Puritans, established a pattern of black-and-white/good-versus-evil thinking. The Puritans believed in things like divine judgment, righteous punishment, and the idea that only a few could be saved while the rest would suffer in the apocalypse. This religious idea was an organizing principle for our society and prevails today. For instance, the idea of an existential threat or ultimate salvation has bled into common culture. Whether it’s climate doomism, political collapse, or even the rapture, American society is addicted to “the end is near” thinking. It is everywhere, embedded into our popular culture. Cultic control today has many faces: multilevel marketing schemes (MLMs), political cults, religious cults, therapy cults, “wellness” gurus, and even one-on-one abusive dynamics. These groups reflect and exploit the very same psychological patterns found in traditional cults—fear, isolation, obedience, and identity manipulation. And there are many cults in the Cult of Trump. Check out this fascinating interview. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this enlightening discussion, David Pakman, political commentator and host of The David Pakman Show, dives into the intricacies of right-wing extremism and its impact on the post-truth era. He emphasizes the urgent need for media literacy and critical thinking in today’s information landscape. The conversation covers the erosion of civic engagement, the complexities of political ideologies, and the challenges of distinguishing facts from opinions. Pakman argues for respectful dialogue with differing views while exploring how historical contexts shape current societal issues.

Cult influence can be found everywhere online, including the political sphere we see when we scroll on social media. Understanding how authoritarian control operates is critical in preserving our autonomy and individuality. In this new episode of The Influence Continuum, I talk with Dr. Stephen Kent, professor emeritus of sociology, who taught courses on alternative and sectarian religions. His research concentrates on issues related to harm caused by groups to individuals and society. It would be a mistake to call sounding the alarms reactionary. Yale scholars like Jason Stanley, Timothy Snyder, and Marci Shore, experts on fascism and propaganda, have left Yale to teach at the University of Toronto in Canada. They cite the rise of authoritarian structures in the United States as their reason for doing so. Our conversation draws lines between our collective decades of research into high-control groups and today’s authoritarian movements, disinformation wars, and the dangerous erosion of democratic norms. While these subjects once felt primarily like niche academic work, terms like “cults” and “authoritarian control” have become central to understanding our political world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum, we spoke with Lev Parnas, a Ukrainian-American businessman and former Trump insider turned whistleblower. He has withstood intimidation, threats, and time in prison to present evidence and help America better understand the truth about the cult of Trump. His book, Shadow Diplomacy: Lev Parnas and his Wild Ride from Brooklyn to Trump’s Inner Circle, is the story of a self-described “wheeler-dealer” who moved through Moscow, Wall Street, Miami, Hollywood, and the White House. It was in prison after he’d been indicted and sentenced for unlawful campaign donations when he realized he was being “used as a pawn” to protect Trump.His biographical memoir gives an insider’s look into how money and power influenced international politics under the 45th presidency with Donald Trump, ultimately leading to his first impeachment trial for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Lev continues his brave work to enlighten Americans with his attained insider knowledge of how Trump ran his administration on his Substack podcast Lev Remembers. He was also the subject of the 2024 documentary film produced by Rachel Maddow, From Russia with Lev, where he shared his vast knowledge and archived data from his time working with the first Trump administration. This is one not to miss! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“You were involved for over 20 years with an apocalyptic, survivalist UFO-like cult. Before joining the cult, you were a bright 16-year-old who later attended Princeton and played football for them as a cornerback. Looking back, you were essentially a bright, educated, charismatic young man who happened to meet the wrong person at the wrong time.” Hoyt describes his upbringing as “normal,” growing up in an affluent family outside Philadelphia. He remembers himself as a social, talented athlete with many friends. While vacationing with family and friends on Nantucket, an upscale Cape Cod Island, he encountered a man named Frederick von Mierers (his real name was Freddy Meyers). Frederick approached 16-year-old Hoyt, laid a towel beside him, and engaged him in conversation about spirituality. Frederick would later become the leader of a cult known as Eternal Values. Hoyt’s life didn’t end with his cult experience; it inspired his purpose. He dedicated himself to filmmaking, podcasting, and advocacy, educating the public about cultic dynamics.Hoyt is currently developing a memoir titled Picture Perfect, a documentary series, and a feature film based on his life and experiences. This is a fascinating person. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices