The Christopher Perrin Show

DescriptionFather Nathan Carr, Headmaster of The Academy and often dubbed “the Jack Sparrow of classical education,” joins Christopher Perrin to recount his unexpected path into classical Christian school leadership—and the hard-won lessons of building a flourishing school culture over two decades. Their conversation draws on James K. A. Smith’s Desiring the Kingdom to argue that “liturgies” (in church and in culture) quietly train our loves and longings. Carr connects that insight to his own work, The Festive School, where he explores how a school’s calendar, habits, and celebrations can become formative—not merely decorative. He also points listeners to his Student Prayer Book as a practical companion for cultivating daily, embodied prayer in the life of a classroom. From The Book of Common Prayer and the daily offices to monastic rhythms like Matins and Compline, he frames education as formation through repeated, prayerful practice. Along the way, they address objections to “rote” ritual, suggesting that repetition can become spiritually alive and deeply consoling over time. The episode closes with concrete snapshots of festivity at The Academy: Lessons & Carols, Stations of the Cross, and campus-wide celebrations of Incarnation and Resurrection. Father Nathan Carr also has a forthcoming course on ClassicalU.com that will release in the early Spring of 2026.Episode OutlineLeadership and longevity: building a flourishing school culture over time James K. A. Smith and “cultural liturgies”: how places and routines form desire Formative practices of the church: reimagining “school” with ecclesial inheritanceA sacramental worldview for education: wonder, gratitude, and formation through loving attentionThe Rule of St. Benedict and the daily offices as a template for student life: Morning prayer / Matins and Lauds, Midday prayer / Sext and remembering Christ’s crucifixion at noon, Night prayer / Compline and the Nunc DimittisRitual and repetition: responding to the “rote” objection; why repetition can become meaningful over timeWhat festivity looks like at The Academy: lessons & carols, stations of the cross, and house feasts, Feast of the Incarnation, and Feast of the ResurrectionKey Topics & TakeawaysFormation Through Practices: What we repeatedly do shapes what we love.Sacramental Imagination Reorients Education: Wonder and gratitude become central virtues of school life.Patterns of Church Applied to the School Day: Benedictine patterns and the daily offices provide a humane rhythm for students and faculty.Repetition Can Produce Spiritual Resilience: Words learned “by heart” may sustain faith in seasons when feelings fail.Festivity as Formative: Shared feasts and rituals can embody the gospel narrative in communal life.Healthy Leadership Protects Culture: Sustainable delegation and team-based responsibility are essential for long-term flourishing.Questions & DiscussionWhat “liturgies” are forming your students right now—outside of your intentions?Consider the repeated routines, spaces, technologies, and schedules in your school day. Identify one “secular liturgy” you want to counter-form with a Christian practice this term.What would change if your school treated reality as sacramental?Name one subject or habit you tend to “instrumentalize”. Discuss one concrete practice that helps students love that subject for its own sake—slow attention, gratitude, or wonder.How can daily prayer become the architecture of the school day rather than an add-on?Draft a simple rhythm (morning prayer, a noon remembrance, end-of-day prayer). Discuss what short forms (collects, call-and-response, sung pieces) would be realistic and faithful for your community.How do you respond to the concern that ritual is “rote” or inauthentic?Share a time when repetition became meaningful (music, athletics, family traditions, worship). Discuss what repetition can form that spontaneity often cannot—stability, shared language, and spiritual stamina.What does “festivity” look like in a way that forms virtue and wonder—not performance or spectacle?Choose one season (Advent, Lent, Eastertide, etc.) and design one practice (meal, hymn, reading, procession, art). Discuss how it teaches the gospel story through shared life.What leadership habits protect a school’s culture over decades?Identify one area where “delegation or death” feels real. Name one next step toward healthy team leadership and sustainable limits.Suggested ReadingDesiring the Kingdom by James K. A. SmithThe Festive School by Father Nathan CarrStudent Prayer Book by Father Nathan CarrThe Rule of St. Benedict by Saint BenedictOrthodoxy by G. K. ChestertonThe Book of Common PrayerRomans 1Note: Dr. Robert D. Crouse, whom Father Nathan Carr mentions as a professor in Trinity, Halifax, Nova Scotia, actually taught in the Classics Department at King's College and Dalhousie University. 

In this reflective episode, Christopher Perrin interviewed Andrew Kern, his long-time colleague and friend, President and CEO of The CiRCE Institute, in a wide-ranging conversation about the philosophy and practice of teaching. They delve into the meaning of truth—what it is, how it’s often misunderstood, and why it remains central to classical Christian education. Drawing from ancient sources and modern confusions, Perrin and Kern challenge the reduction of truth to mere facts, propositions, or private opinion. Instead, they present a more robust vision: truth as reality itself, made known through the Logos, and discoverable in every discipline, from science to poetry.Perrin and Kern explore how this deeper understanding of truth can liberate students, form character, and unify fragmented thinking in a disoriented age. They critique the cultural tendencies toward relativism, scientism, and technocracy, offering classical education as a hopeful and coherent response. Along the way, Perrin and Kern draw on Plato, Augustine, Pascal, and Sayers to recover a compelling view of truth that is beautiful, knowable, and formative. Listeners will be invited to rethink how we teach, how we learn, and how we live in pursuit of what is true.Listeners may also be interested in the book Unless the Lord Builds the House, as well as the Apprenticeship Program and courses taught by Andrew Kern available on ClassicalU. They can also learn more about the newly released book The Good Teacher and the accompanying courses.

In this memorable episode of The Christopher Perrin Show, Christopher welcomes Dr. Grant Horner and Karen Moore—two veteran classical educators and authors—for a spirited conversation about the power of language, memory, and the poetic imagination in Christian classical education. Together, they explore how reading, writing, and reciting great texts form not only the intellect but the soul, training students to love truth, beauty, and goodness through embodied habits of attention and delight. As a key method of embodied learning, they consider the importance of doing some teaching in situ and walking the ground where these events and stories originated.Drawing on decades of classroom experience and curriculum development, Dr. Horner and Moore discuss the importance of early exposure to Latin, the recovery of ancient rhetorical arts, and the integration of poetry into daily learning. Their reflections touch on everything from biblical literacy and etymology to Shakespeare, Cicero, and the Book of Common Prayer—showing how the classical tradition equips students not only to analyze language but to inhabit it with grace and conviction.Listeners will come away invigorated to cultivate memory, nourish imagination, and recover the lost arts of eloquence—beginning in their homes, schools, and homerooms.

In this special episode of The Christopher Perrin Show, Christopher welcomes Dr. Angel Parham, professor of sociology at the University of Virginia and co-author of The Black Intellectual Tradition. Together, they explore the often-overlooked legacy of classical learning in the Black intellectual tradition, tracing its vital contributions from figures like Anna Julia Cooper and Frederick Douglass to the modern classroom.Drawing on her own journey through homeschooling, historical sociology, and the founding of the Nyansa Classical Community, Dr. Parham advocates for a deeply integrated approach to classical education—one that honors the Mediterranean and African roots of the tradition while inviting all students, especially the marginalized, into its freeing and formative power. The conversation also touches on themes of cultural polarization, the liberating nature of reading and writing, and how ancient texts can shape a student's soul and imagination—especially when engaged through the timeless practice of keeping a commonplace book.Listeners will come away inspired to recover classical education as a unifying, deeply human tradition—and perhaps even begin a florilegium of their own.

In this episode, Dr. Perrin gives a foretaste from his forthcoming book with Carrie Eben, The Good Teacher, as he advocates for singing as a powerful and now neglected pedagogical tool. Drawing from traditional sources like Plato and Augustine, Scripture, and personal anecdotes, he explores how music—especially in the form of singing and chanting—can shape the soul, foster joy, and make learning permanent. Perrin traces the etymological and cultural significance of music (from the Greek muse and mousikē), noting how integral it once was to early education and soul formation. He challenges modern classical educators to break free from their limited educational upbringing and rediscover this method of teaching, particularly in the lower grades. Through vivid examples—such as his daughter’s ability to recall scripture, history, and Latin years later through song—Perrin demonstrates how singing enables children to internalize and retain knowledge in a joyful and embodied way. He urges educators to sing far more often than feels natural to the adult mind, to make use of existing resources, and to partner with others in creating musical material. The episode concludes with a compelling invitation: to teach in a way that aligns with the nature of children and the harmonious order of the cosmos—by singing what is true, good, and beautiful.

Delve into the essence of virtue and its pivotal role in education. Discover how classical teachings on human excellence have been overshadowed in modern learning. Explore the cardinal virtues of prudence, justice, temperance, and courage, and their relevance in today’s classrooms. The discussion unveils intellectual virtues like wonder and discipline that shape the holistic development of students. Join the quest to recover the lost vocabulary that defines true education and its purpose in fostering both character and intellect.

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Perrin explores the often-neglected role of beauty in classical education, emphasizing the importance of engaging all five senses in the learning experience. He challenges the text-centered focus of modern education and invites educators to rethink school environments, advocating for spaces that reflect truth, goodness, and beauty. Through thought experiments and practical suggestions, he encourages schools to move beyond utilitarian aesthetics toward classrooms that feel more like homes, museums, or gardens. He also highlights schools that have successfully integrated beauty into their educational philosophy and provides resources for further exploration. Listeners might also enjoy the book Making School Beautiful by Dr. John Skillen.

The discussion centers on finding harmony between rigor and rest in classical education. Drawing from Aristotle, the host critiques overemphasis on academic rigor, warning it can lead to a joyless experience. The origins of the word 'school' from the Greek term 'skole' highlights the need for contemplation alongside work. Historical insights from monastic education showcase the importance of balancing prayer and work. The conversation advocates for integrating beauty and delight into tight curricula to promote a more enriching learning environment.

Great teaching transcends techniques and is rooted in timeless principles. Drawing comparisons between carpentry and teaching, it reveals how foundational ideas shape effective educators. The conversation emphasizes the significance of virtue ethics and character formation, inspired by Aristotle's teachings. Ten transformative pedagogical principles are introduced, guiding teachers in their craft. Listeners are also invited to explore new resources, including an upcoming book and course aimed at enriching the teaching experience.

Dive into the timeless journey of Odysseus as he returns home, a powerful tale of identity and belonging. Explore the cultural importance of Italian coffee bars that foster community and family connections. Reflect on modern distractions and the essence of revisiting foundational skills for personal growth. Discover how Homer's Odyssey mirrors complex familial dynamics, emphasizing the bonds between Odysseus, Penelope, and Telemachus. This conversation weaves together the legacy of learning, language, and the deep human yearning for home.