
Talking Michigan Transportation
The Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with transportation experts inside and outside MDOT and will touch on anything and everything related to mobility, including rail, transit and the development of connected and automated vehicles.
Latest episodes

Jul 1, 2022 • 39min
Meet three leaders in new and vital roles at MDOT
On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, conversations with three people recently promoted to major leadership roles at the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT). First, Beckie Curtis, who is the incoming director of the Bureau of Bridges and Structures, talks about her career path to civil engineering, what she’s learned along the way and why she is especially passionate about bridges. Having worked with bridges for more than 21 years, with 15 of those with MDOT, Curtis has served the department as a load rating engineer and bridge management engineer before becoming the deputy chief bridge engineer in 2018. In this position, she served as the administrator for the Office of Structure Preservation and Management and led the teams responsible for the National Bridge Inspection Program and Structure Preservation. Curtis discusses the importance of asset management and how she will face the challenges of trying to maintain safe structures after decades of under-investment in transportation in Michigan. Later, Demetrius “Dee” Parker, who has been named director of the Bureau of Development, talks about the various positions he’s held at MDOT and how they prepared him for the new post, overseeing everything from the design of road projects to acquisition of real estate, and permitting billboards. Parker has worked for the department for almost 30 years and brings a diverse background to the position and has more than 20 years of managerial experience in a variety of roles:• Served for the past three years as the University Region engineer.• Previously appointed as the Southwest Region engineer, administrator of the Contract Services Division, and manager of the Jackson Transportation Service Center. The final segment features a conversation with Brad Wieferich, who has been named MDOT’s chief operations officer and chief engineer. He recalls how he began to explore civil engineering at the suggestion of a high school physics teacher. Wieferich also talks about how his decades of experience with MDOT, and in the private sector, prepared him for the new position. Beginning in 1995, he held positions in MDOT's Bay, University, and Southwest regions. He also served as engineer of design and then director of the Bureau of Development.

Jun 21, 2022 • 25min
Extreme speeds during the pandemic captures police attention
In response to a dramatic increase in speeding drivers beginning with the pandemic stay-at-home advisories in 2020 and continuing now, traffic safety experts and law enforcement officials are working to understand the behavior. On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Carol Flannagan, director of the Center for Management of Information for Safe and Sustainable Transportation (CMISST) at the University of Michigan (UM) and research professor at UM's Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI), talks about her research and theories about the epidemic of speeding and other risky behavior. This comes as the Michigan Office of Highway Safety Planning (OHSP) and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) are once again partnering on a regional traffic safety campaign. As noted in their news release: "As part of the 'Great Lakes, High Stakes' campaign, dozens of municipal, county and Michigan State Police (MSP) law enforcement agencies across Michigan will focus on speeding drivers between June 18 and 26." Among other topics, Flannagan talks about the challenging decisions for auto manufacturers in rolling out automated vehicle (AV) technology. She acknowledges that it's much easier for AVs to communicate and predict what other vehicles will do rather than what humans will do. She also discusses: Effectiveness of high-visibility enforcement and impacts on driver behavior.Crash stats. From 2011 to 2019, fatalities were flat, but in July 2020 the rate of speeding-related fatalities spiked.Frontal automatic emergency braking is effective, reducing frontal crashes by 50 percent.Manufacturers have been shifting from warning systems for drivers to automatic systems, which is much more effective. Also discussed, the resistance and challenges to acceptance of Advance Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) and projections for broad adoption. Just this week, the NHTSA released data on the topic, but there are concerns about context. And a reference to a supercut video of Elon Musk predicting the timeframe for broad deployment of AV technology. Podcast photo: Carol A. Flannagan, Ph.D., Research Professor, University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI).

Jun 16, 2022 • 25min
A veteran of the House Fiscal Agency breaks down the transportation budget process
On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Bill Hamilton, a senior transportation funding analyst at the Michigan House Fiscal Agency (HFA). As negotiations proceed on Michigan state government’s fiscal year 2023 budget, Hamilton explains the challenges and how things are unique with a needed infusion of federal dollars through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), following relief from federal pandemic funds. Hamilton also talks about the IIJA’s impact in Michigan. This analysis breaks down the benefits to states. Acknowledging Michigan’s decades of underinvestment in transportation infrastructure, he talks about the history of the discussion and the reasons why it has been so difficult for Michigan policymakers to agree on a long-term and sustainable funding solution. Other relevant links: A primer on the legislative act that lays out the funding formula for roads in Michigan at the state, county and city/village levelshttps://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/archives/pdf/act51.pdf An HFA fiscal brief: MTF Distribution Formula to Local Road Agencies https://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDF/Alpha/Fiscal_Brief_MTF_Distribution_Formula_to_LRA_Mar2022_Update.pdf Perspective from the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments https://semcog.org/desktopmodules/SEMCOG.Publications/GetFile.ashx?filename=PerspectiveOnMichiganRoadFunding.pdf

Jun 9, 2022 • 28min
Funding roads like public utilities — through user fees
The fuel tax has long been the preferred method of funding road building and repair in the United States, as this brief history outlines. That has been the case in Michigan for nearly a century, with fees for registering vehicles also contributing to the funding pool. A recent study on mileage-based user fees (MBUF) observes that the gas tax was a benefits tax based on the users-pay/users-benefit principle, meaning the tax is paid in proportion to the benefits received. Someone who drives a lot receives more benefit from the roads than someone who drives less frequently. People who drive more also put more stress on the pavement. The study, completed by the Reason Foundation and the Michigan-based Mackinac Center, provides an outline for how to rethink road funding, in light of diminishing returns from fuel taxes as fuel economy improves and major automakers shift to building more electric vehicles.On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Baruch Feigenbaum, senior managing director of transportation policy at the Reason Foundation, talks about the study. Later, Aarne Frobom, a senior policy analyst at the Michigan Department of Transportation, offers his perspective.Among discussion points: · Is it time to rethink transportation funding and treat roads as public utilities with a similar rate-making process?· Would an MBUF be subject to periodic increases when justified by increased operating and capital costs, via a public process? · What’s in it for the driver? · How many old systems of assessing fees and taxes would this alleviate?· Could this finally separate road-user fees from fuel prices?The discussion comes as Section 615 of House Bill 5791 asks MDOT to conduct a study of the feasibility of vehicle miles traveled (VMT) as a basis for transportation funding in replacement of motor fuel taxes.

Jun 3, 2022 • 23min
MDOT rail director touts opportunities presented by Sec. Buttigieg announcements
On Thursday, June 2, U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg announced Thursday in Michigan $368 million in rail infrastructure and safety grants to 46 projects in 32 states, with about $30 million flowing to Michigan. On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Peter Anastor, who directs the Michigan Department of Transportation’s Office of Rail, talks about the economic benefits to the rail companies and businesses they serve. Buttigieg made the case for the grants in an op/ed published in the Detroit Free Press: President Biden tasked us with strengthening our supply chains, speeding the movement of people and goods, increasing production, and helping usher in newer, cleaner and cheaper energy - all of which will lower costs for families. And thanks to the president’s historic Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we have the resources we need to do just that. The grants include $21.3 million for a proposed project to improve track and rail assets operated by the Great Lakes Central Railroad just north of Ann Arbor, according to the Federal Railroad Administration. The second grant of up to $8.7 million will go to the West Michigan Railroad Co. to pay for infrastructure improvements on roughly 10 miles of track in southwest Michigan. Anastor also discusses other exciting improvements going on with passenger rail service in Michigan, including ongoing enhancements on the Detroit-Chicago corridor to increase speeds to 110 mph. Elsewhere, advocacy continues for Traverse City-to-Ann Arbor passenger rail service.

May 26, 2022 • 24min
Visit a Michigan state park and charge your EV while you’re there
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, conversations about an announcement by Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of electric vehicle charging infrastructure installations at Michigan state parks. First, Trevor Pawl, Michigan’s chief mobility officer, explains why several Michigan state agencies are collaborating with private industry to provide charging options along the Lake Michigan shore for travelers from in and out of state.The announcement follows last year’s roll out by the governor of plans for a Lake Michigan Electric Vehicle Circuit.In his role with the Michigan Office of Future Mobility and Electrification, Pawl works hard to bring together private industry and government officials to find solutions to mobility challenges, including range anxiety.Pawl explains why Rivian, an electric vehicle maker and automotive technology company, under an operating agreement between Adopt a Charger and the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, will be providing open-network, Level 2 Rivian Waypoints chargers at no cost to the state or taxpayers. He also underscores how identifying creative partnerships and opportunities can help with significant progress “in creating a safer, more equitable and environmentally conscious transportation future for all Michiganders.” Later, Ed Golder, director of communications at the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, explains how the partnership will work. He also talks about why it makes sense, given the number of people who visit Michigan state parks each year. He says visits to the parks soared during the pandemic and officials expect the trend to continue.From the governor’s news release on the announcement:From Warren Dunes State Park in the southwest corner of the Lower Peninsula, north along the Lake Michigan “gold coast” and additional points inland, an estimated total of 30 chargers are scheduled to be installed as part of the first phase of the project with the next installations beginning in summer and continuing through the year. “This project will not only benefit Michigan in the near term but will also pay dividends far into the future as we move toward a sustainable energy future,” DNR Director Dan Eichinger said. “From these EV charging stations, to installations of solar arrays that power fish hatcheries and other facilities, to building with mass timber and our innovative carbon sequestration development, we are working to improve the environment as we update our own portfolio.” “Today’s announced partnership between the DNR and Adopt a Charger fits nicely with MDOT's goal to enhance connectivity," said Michigan Department of Transportation Director Paul C. Ajegba. "This also compliments the ongoing work by MDOT and our colleagues in other state departments to deliver on a vision for a Lake Michigan Electric Vehicle Circuit.”Podcast photo: Electric vehicle charging options being installed at a State Park along Lake Michigan.

May 20, 2022 • 19min
Inspecting and managing bridges during a long-term funding shortage
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a discussion about the inspection and maintenance of aging bridges in the wake of a report of a man falling through a pedestrian bridge over a freeway in Detroit. Matt Chynoweth, chief bridge engineer for the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT), joins the podcast to explain the federal guidelines for the inspection and rating of all bridges on the National Bridge Inventory (NBI) and how his team works with other road agencies and contractors to ensure bridges are safe. The MDOT website includes an interactive feature that shows the location of bridges across the state along with information about age, condition and the date of the last inspection. A newly added page provides inspection data on more than 70 Detroit-area pedestrian bridges over state trunkline routes. Chynoweth underscores, again, that if any bridge, whether it carries vehicles or pedestrians, is found to be a danger, it will be closed. In the wake of a bridge collapse in Pittsburgh earlier this year, reporting focused on national bridge conditions. According to the American Road and Transportation Builders Association (ARTBA), one in three U.S. bridges either needs repairs or to be replaced. Chynoweth echoes what many others have said: The lack of bridge funding is part of a broader problem with underinvestment in our transportation system. Michigan's per-capita transportation spending has lagged behind other Midwest states for decades. This has compounded the challenge of upgrading our bridge conditions. How big is the challenge? MDOT estimates it would require $2 billion just to get all state-owned bridges up to good or fair condition, and another $1.5 billion for local agency owned bridges.Podcast photo of a pedestrian bridge in Detroit.

May 13, 2022 • 26min
Rebuilding Michigan projects take shape across the state and an update on bonding
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, an update on Rebuilding Michigan road and bridge projects across the state as the 2022 construction season begins in earnest.First, Gregg Brunner, director of MDOT’s Bureau of Field Services, talks about how the department, consultants, and contractors mitigated challenges from spring weather as well as supply chains and labor availability. He also offers progress reports on several high-profile road projects. Later, MDOT Finance Director Patrick McCarthy makes a repeat appearance to outline the Rebuilding Michigan bonding program and explain how it benefits the state. Brunner talks about several high-profile projects that involve completely rebuilding busy segments of freeways including: I-96 Flex Route in western Oakland County,I-275 in western Wayne County, I-69 near Flint,I-94 in Jackson, which includes installation of a diverging diamond interchange (DDI) at US-127, the third DDI in Michigan, andI-196 west of Grand Rapids in Ottawa County. In his overview of the bonding program, McCarthy explains why the ratings agencies looked so favorably on the sales and how they sold at a premium. He also explains how, with recent increases in the costs of materials and labor, MDOT’s issuance of the first rounds of bonds were especially timely and produced even more savings than previously expected. Looking in the bond sales also helped avoid some of the increases from inflation.Podcast photo: I-69/I-475 interchange Rebuilding Michigan project in Flint.

Apr 28, 2022 • 29min
New research yields surprises on traffic safety messages
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, conversations with two academics studying the effect of safety messages on driver behavior. First, Joshua Madsen, a professor of accounting and behavioral economics at the University of Minnesota, talks about a research report he co-authored — and highlighted in the Journal Science — that examined whether highway signs displaying traffic deaths reduce crashes. In the second segment, Jerry Ullman, a senior research engineer at the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, talks about a perspective he wrote to accompany the story in Science. Madsen explains how he first encountered the messages while driving in Illinois and was struck by the starkness of the numbers. He wondered about context and how the numbers were derived. As outlined in the story: "Researchers focused on Texas, which consistently displayed the messages for one week every month on 880 signs across the state’s highways. Researchers gathered data on all traffic crashes that happened on affected roads between 2010 and 2017. They compared crashes that occurred in weeks when fatality stats were displayed with those that happened during the rest of the month, taking care to compare only the accidents that happened at the same hour and on the same day of the week. They also controlled for weather and for holidays, which can independently affect the number of crashes. "While conceding the difficulty of researching these topics, determining cause and affect and discerning what and when messages can influence behavior, Madsen cites one initiative with resonance: placing the wreckage of vehicles, which had been driven by a teenager, at rest areas. During his segment, Ullman talks about whether the effect of higher fatality numbers is plausible and questioned whether drivers are really processing larger and smaller death rates differently. He says he would like to see more research on the cause of the increase. Ullman also talks about the importance of message design and other research on how optimism bias informs our judgment. Podcast player photo: MDOT Dynamic Message Sign board displaying a safety message.

Apr 21, 2022 • 34min
A pioneering agreement between Michigan and federal government for national parks
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, conversations with two State of Michigan officials about the announcement of an agreement with the National Park Service (NPS) to work together and develop programs for more sustainable and equitable travel to NPS lands. The announcement coincided with other Earth Week events across the state and featured a visit from Charles F. Sams III, who was sworn in Dec. 16, 2021, as NPS director, the first tribal citizen to lead the service in its 106-year history. (Video story of the event.) First, Trevor Pawl, Michigan’s chief mobility officer, explains the potential opportunities from the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) announced Tuesday, April 19, between NPS and several state departments. Some of the possibilities include installing more charging infrastructure for electric vehicles, something NPS has already begun. Later, Jean Ruestman, who directs MDOT’s Office of Passenger Transportation and a key player in developing the MOU, joins the podcast to talk about the potential to provide broader accessibility to the parks. She also explains how the Michigan Mobility Challenge, highlighted by Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in 2019, could provide a model for inspiring ideas to increase access to the national parks. Podcast photo: Morning fog in Yellowstone River Valley. National Park Service photo by Neal Herbert.