The Plot Thickens

Growing up in Colorado, young Pam Grier endures racism and trauma, but finds solace in horses and the beautiful countryside. As a teen, she visits Los Angeles for the first time, and gets caught in the middle of the historic Watts Rebellion. But after winning a beauty pageant, she meets a Hollywood agent who encourages her to give L.A. a second chance. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the story of Pam Grier as only she can tell it. Her sudden stardom, her iconic roles, her fights against the system. It’s a story of bravery, both onscreen and off. It’s a story about race in Hollywood and race in America. And it’s a story about how real life is a lot messier than the movies. Pam Grier joins host Ben Mankiewicz for a new season of The Plot Thickens, starting October 25. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re sharing a bonus episode from our friends at Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast about things misunderstood and overlooked. This season, Malcolm’s obsessed with experiments – natural experiments, scientific experiments, thought experiments. In this episode, Malcolm explores a legendary Hollywood mogul, a famous author, a fatal drunk driving accident, and a brilliant bit of screenwriting left on the cutting room floor. Revisionist History engages in a pop culture what-if experiment about the 1937 version of A Star is Born.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Mankiewicz speaks with the Oscar-winning actor about playing William Frawley in Being the Ricardos, and how Frawley's tumultuous relationship with Vivian Vance informed the characters of Fred and Ethel Mertz. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Mankiewicz speaks to three celebrity fans about how they were influenced by Lucille Ball, Lucy’s incredible talent for physical comedy, and why I Love Lucy is still beloved today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Mankiewicz speaks to Aaron Sorkin, the writer-director of Being the Ricardos, about what drew him to Lucy’s story, Lucy and Desi’s intense relationship, and the danger they faced when HUAC thought Lucy was a communist.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More from Ben Mankiewicz's fascinating interview with Lucie Arnaz, who speaks about working with her mom, growing up on the RKO studio lot, and what made I Love Lucy special. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lucy sinks into a depression after the failure of her newest show and becomes a reclusive, fiercely competitive backgammon player. Yet she's still revered, and following a memorable final appearance at the Academy Awards, her heart gives out. As the memorials pour in, the public clamors to learn everything about her life, while those closest to her wonder if they ever really knew her at all. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Escaping Hollywood after her split, Lucy heads east for a chance to star on Broadway. There she meets a new man, a Borscht Belt comedian with a bad toupee and even worse business sense. The new couple returns to Hollywood when Lucy takes on a surprising new role: as the first female head of a major studio. But she still prefers acting, and makes plans to return to the big screen – with disastrous results. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lucy and Desi's studio expands as they buy the RKO lot and produce new shows under the Desilu banner. The strain of running an empire takes its toll, and Desi falls further into gambling, drinking and philandering as a refuge from work. Lucy doubles down on her career, but after shooting a tearful final episode of her signature TV show, her marriage reaches its breaking point. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices