Keeping It Real Podcast • Secrets Of Top 1% REALTORS ® • Interviews With Real Estate Brokers & Agents

Welcome to our monthly feature Unpopular Real Estate Opinions with Chris Linsell. Chris Linsell talks about the current situation in the real estate market. Chris discusses mortgage rates and why this is an amazing time to buy a home. Next, Chris talks about AI and its impact on the real estate market, an agent’s job, and the commissions. Chris also discusses how agents can evaluate the level of service they offer and what they can do to improve. Last, Chris discusses the importance of building a portfolio of expertise. Please check Chris’ profile on LinkedIn. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00is AI coming for your job? Well, yes, but also No. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Welcome to keeping it real, the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I am your guide and host through the show and today I’ll return to keeping it real as our one of our favorite people that has been with us almost since well, almost since the beginning of our show certainly has been with us for many years Chris Lynn cell and we actually have a new title for Chris’s episodes that he’s going to be coming on regularly with us used to be called closing time, we came up with a with a different and kind of a more fun title we both thought, which is called unpopular real estate opinions with Chris Lin Sal, let me let me actually tell you more about Chris, if you are new to the show, if you are a returning guest or sorry returning listener to our show, you probably already know this about Chris, but let me tell you more about him to everyone who is new. Crystal Ansel is a real estate technology analyst and director of content at large. He specializes in new solutions to old questions, constantly exploring the cutting edge of technology in the real estate space. And Chris also has many years of experience as a licensed Realtor in the state of Michigan, and has worked as a marketer, a digital strategist and a trainer for major national brands like Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices of Michigan, and Coldwell Banker Schmidt realtors. Throughout his real estate career, Chris has been part of hundreds of transactions ranging from modest rural starter homes to multi million dollar waterside compounds, and accomplished musician, actor and speaker Chris has engaged with audiences sized ranging from 30 to 3000. Most recently, Chris was just a featured speaker at the 2023 National Association of REALTORS Convention, which he just returned. Many of you listening may have already may have seen him speak there. But Chris, what oh, by the way, before Chris comes on, please follow Chris on LinkedIn, we’ll have a link to his LinkedIn page. He has writes great content there. And also if you are looking for a sought after speaker, either for a brokerage, maybe an association or a conference, Chris would love to chat with you. He is constantly traveling across the country speaking to lots of Realtors, Chris Lynn cell.com is where you can find his touring schedule and how to get in touch with him. Chris, welcome back to the show. DJ, Chris Linsell 3:57it’s great to be back, we might have to work on cutting that intro down a little bit, I realized I gave you a lot of info. And you know, most people that don’t care about that stuff, they just want to they want to get to the meat inside of the sandwich. So thanks. Thanks for having me back. It’s really a pleasure to be chatting with you again. You know, when I was or anyone who doesn’t know, DJ and I originally met when I was the senior writer for a website called the clothes and did a lot of content and and professional development for real estate professionals through the close hence closing time the former name of our segment but now that I am have moved on in the next chapter beyond the close, launching some new ideas here Unpopular Opinions perhaps man I’m looking forward to digging into it today. It’s It’s It’s good to be back chatting. D.J. Paris 4:56It’s very exciting to have you back Chris is very very important person, I believe, currently in the real estate journalist space. Chris is very, very well informed on what’s going on. From not just from a news perspective, but also from the perspective of working agent. And you’re also in direct communication with working agents as of course, you being a working agent yourself up. So let’s, let’s get right into it. What? Well, there’s a lot to go over. What do you what’s on your mind today? Chris Linsell 5:30Man, what’s on my mind today? Well, you know, there’s a lot of stuff, obviously happening in the real estate space right now. I think I think it’s important for for real estate professionals right now, to realize that we are, we’re currently I don’t know if you ever seen the video this, we’re currently standing on the beach, watching the water get pulled away from the shore. Like, like what happened in I think it was in Thailand, when there was this earthquake. You know, out in the ocean, everybody standing on the beach was watching the water recede, like there was waves that were getting pulled back like the tide was going out. And everyone was like, What the heck is going on? It’s pretty quiet in here right now. But there’s no water like we’re used to all of that water. In this video is building to a giant wave that’s going to come crash over the beach. And right now I have this kind of gut feeling that real estate might be going through that scenario. We’re all standing on the beach. It’s relatively calm. There’s, you know, it’s not perfect, but we’re not getting splashed right now. But pretty soon, we’re going to face some challenges as an industry challenges that we haven’t faced in a long, long time, maybe ever. And it is time for real estate professionals to start thinking about this, because we’re about to get wet as as the same would go. But I’m here to talk about why we might get wet and to tell people where they can buy their surfboards, because just because the waves are common doesn’t mean that you can’t be successful either. D.J. Paris 7:12Yeah, it’s funny I that I think that’s a really apt metaphor. And it makes a lot of sense, because it does feel very calm. Right now, certainly, the waters are murky. And, you know, there’s a lot that people are, at least the agents that I communicate with are unhappy about, but not as unhappy, maybe as they’ve been in recent, previous years. But there is obviously there’s there’s challenges with inventory and interest rates. I saw Jamie Dimon yesterday from from Chase, had basically said, Yeah, recession is coming. So um, that was that was depressing to see that usually. I don’t know, whatever Jamie Dimon says, I usually think is probably probably close to accurate. But he is not an economist either. So who knows, but he has a team of them working for him. But yeah, we would love let’s talk about where that kinetic energy is building right now out and out in the surf. And when it’s going to come crashing into us and what we can do sort of brace ourselves for it. Yeah. Chris Linsell 8:18Well, let me let me start by giving you an unpopular opinion, but not untrue, about the mortgage rates that you just mentioned. So it’s true that we’ve seen volatility in the mortgage rate sector, significant volatility relative to what we’re used to, right. Like it was not that long ago, that the status quo for mortgage rates was in the threes in the fours 4% for residential loans. What felt high at, you know, in recent memory, so to see rates where they are right now feels volatile, it feels like a shock even for those of us who have seen rates higher than this. It’s just been a long time since those rates have been that high. But let me set some, let me let me kind of set a straight here. It’s not popular for me to say this, but we are going to experience as an industry, a significant set of disruption. When industry went when our interest rates come down a little bit. And let me explain why. Right now, most people in most markets are experiencing what I would consider price stagnation. Relative to the interest rates, these high interest rates are not driving prices down. They’re just generally keeping them pretty, pretty pretty much flat. This is because these high interest rates, which usually would drive prices down are being buoyed by our lack of inventory, as you mentioned before, right like, even though you Interest rates are high demand was so high that now that the interest rates have come up, we’ve just kind of hit that equilibrium. But not down here where we want it, it’s up a little bit higher, this equilibrium is higher than most people are comfortable with. So imagine what would happen. If say, in 812 16 months, the interest rates drop two percentage points, and all of a sudden, we are seeing mortgage rates in the five percents. While all of this pent up demand for home purchases is going to explode onto the scene. And imagine what will happen when the buyer pool literally doubles in two weeks, when interest rates snapped down again, we’re going to see prices pop, especially in on demand markets, like major metros, tourist destinations, anywhere where there’s water, especially freshwater, we are going to see prices pop by 30% 50%, even in the span of a quarter, it would not surprise me to see interest rates go down, and prices pop by 20% 25. This D.J. Paris 11:12is a pretty this is a competition thing. We’re talking about 100% competition 100%. Chris Linsell 11:17Because you’re gonna have all of a sudden, all these buyers who had decided, I’m going to wait out the mortgage, the mortgage rates, I don’t have to move right now. But I cannot surrender my my 3% mortgage rate on my existing home, I can’t surrender that for an 8%. But I might be able to stomach it for 5%. So all of those buyers are going to flood into the market and all of a sudden, we’re going to see prices on homes skyrocket. And this is not going to be good for our markets in general, we’re still trying to find this balance between supply and demand. So an unpopular opinion, all that to say is the following. This is actually an amazing time to buy a home for buyers. Because if you have the capital to be able to temporarily brace the existing payments, thanks to the mortgage rates that are elevated, you have low competition and flat prices, which means your your your search process is relatively predictable. You could if you bought a house right now, if those mortgage rates like we’re all predicting, popped down by 2%, in the next 24 months, you can refinance that house, but you cannot refinance the price of the house. If you want to wait. If you cannot lock in today’s price, and then wait to buy it for two more years, you got to lock in at both places. But you can refinance that rate, even though it’s a little higher than you’re used to. Now, not everybody has that opportunity. I recognize this is another reasons unpopular opinion. Not everybody has the opportunity to go in at the higher mortgage rate because capital is tight, I totally get that. So this isn’t something that applies for everyone. But if you are working with buyers right now, it is time to start framing this situation as an opportunity because genuinely hate to say it, I don’t think it’s gonna get easier for buyers. In fact, I think it’s gonna get harder. And right now is the time that buyer’s agents should be counseling their clients to say, Now is the time if you want to strike on these sorts of things, it’s time to be active in the in the in the market right now. D.J. Paris 13:35I agree, I think that I would love to see a calculator. And by the way, if one of our listeners is so skilled in their in math to create this, but I would love to see based on some of the assumptions you just mentioned, what that breakeven point is for when it doesn’t make sense to purchase in a higher interest rate low competition environment like now which because and then assuming that at some point in the next several years, you may be able to refinance down to a lower rate if if rates do in fact decrease, which which we would hope they will. But you’re right, that the as the value or as the price. As the interest rates come down, of course, competition will be increased. So I think you’re right, this is, I think a huge opportunity for agents to just explain to their buyers money is just more expensive right now. It’s just a little bit more expensive. And here’s the good news. The bad news is yes, it’s going to cost you more to to you know, get a place currently, as far as the if you’re borrowing but you have not only less competition, as Chris said prices are relatively flat and a less competition. And then you know, as interest rates of course increase you’re able to or decrease you’re able to refinance hopefully in the future, but you know, you’re basically going to get a better price today. Just based on competition, Chris Linsell 15:01yeah, 100% 100%. Now, I want to layer in another unpopular opinion that goes along with this one we’re talking about, I mean, it’s easy to talk about the mechanics of our market. Because we’re all kind of watching we’re I mean, most most MLS is you can see what’s closing, you can see when it’s closing, you can understand the volume of your market, you can understand it relative to the historics. So most of us can see that stuff pretty pretty evidently, if we’re looking for it. But let me add in a layer of kind of unpopular opacity, if it will, something that kind of cloud things a little bit, which is the the added element of technology, specifically AI in this conversation. I know it’s unpopular to say this. But AI is common for your job. And let me be more specific, you’re not going to get replaced by AI, but you’re going to get replaced by somebody who uses AI very soon. Like, I’m not kidding, in the next 36 months, this is going to be a real consideration for people. And let me tell you why I think that this is true. We have seen an unprecedented acceleration in terms of the the path of AI, DJ, I don’t know if if you saw this or not. So if you if you did, I’m gonna give you a gimme here. And if you didn’t, then we’ll we’ll go from there. How long do you think we’ve been talking about chat? GPT? How long do you think this tool has been on the scene for us? How D.J. Paris 16:38long has it been on the scene? I don’t know. Yeah. How long is it? How long has it been in the zeitgeist? I’d say, year, maybe year and a half. It Chris Linsell 16:50just chat GPT became available to the public, just barely a year from when we’re recording this. It’s been available to the public one year and one day from today. It feels like we’ve been talking about this for a long time. Because I mean, a year is a long time. But we’ve also been really intensely talking about it. And one of the reasons we’ve been really intensely talking about it, is because it has developed so fast. Think about where we were a year and a half ago, nobody was using it was even thinking in the context of technology, how can I use AI to improve my real estate business? And now, I mean, I’m not gonna sugarcoat it, I have spoken to literally 1000s of Realtors over the last just three months about how AI will affect their real estate business. And let me tell you, things are not slowing down, things are speeding up. It is very reasonable to believe that a year from right now, AI will be unrecognizably powerful relative to what it is right now. So if you are thinking to yourself, This is a technology that will not affect me and my business. You are akin to the realtors, who in the early 2000s thought now, there’s just no way that a company like what are they called Zillow, Zillow, zili, there’s no way a company like that could affect my real estate business. Of course, people are still going to want to come in my office and flip through the phone book that was the MLS, then if you are one of those people, you’re fooling yourself AI, and somebody who’s using it is coming for your job. And if you’re not prepared for that three years from now, you’re going to be doing something else. D.J. Paris 18:54Yeah, I mean, it’s even AI has even changed the way that I searched the web because now for the most part, I will well, I’m trying to think of if this is a true statement for me, it’s close enough to true most of the time, I will go to chat GBT with my query before I’ll go to Google. And that is only going to in Google’s developing their own. They have barred, they have their own AI. But eventually, we are going to stop submitting even search queries the way that we’re doing now. It’s it’s chat, GBT already has voice input, and that’s going to continue to develop and people are going to just start getting accustomed to talking to their devices and asking for information. I do it almost every day. i The way I think about it is you know, I don’t know if it goes back to the Odyssey but but this whole or wherever, whatever mythology this is, but the oracle at Delphi, this Greek mythology thing I have that now and or at least a version of that. And I speak to it all the time. And I’m curious and how Do you think that may impact a realtors job? Well, you mentioned? Yeah. Like how? What? Yeah. Chris Linsell 20:07Well, I mean, I’ll start off by saying, This is not an exaggeration. My children speak to and I don’t want to say it out loud. Our smartest speaker. Yep, my children speak to our smart speaker literally daily. And they ask it the sort of things that would have taken me a minute to get for them using the internet, and would have taken me at their age going to find somebody who just physically knew the information that I was asking. So my kids, this is this isn’t a learned behavior. This is an organic behavior for them. And it is for anybody who grew up using this technology. And the emergence of of artificial intelligence to pair with that sort of interface is going to, like I said, completely revolutionize the way that we think about information and execution of tasks. How will that affect real estate professionals? Well, there are two big things that I think we should consider. The first is, and I know, unpopular opinion here. But the first is if your value as a real estate professional is based on your access to tools, or your ability to execute procedural things, you’re screwed, I hate to say it, but this is going to change the way that we conduct real estate holistically, there will be no longer there will no longer be hours necessary for editing photos for writing listing descriptions for inputting and updating the MLS, there will no longer be hours necessary for sorting through and prioritizing communication on platforms like CRMs, there, frankly, will be no longer a need sooner than later to, to automate and even generate the sort of passive communication that just two years ago, I was on the close, trumpeting as an absolute necessity for building your real estate brand. Having email drips, creating the right social media content, making sure your website stays up to date, these used to be jobs that we did with our own fingers with our own precious hours, this is going away. In fact, I would be willing to bet 30% of real estate hours in our job will be gone and dedicated to machines. Within timing, I want to say 24 months, but maybe more like 18 months, 16 months even. I mean, it’s going to change the way that we think about this business, it is no longer going to be a to do list, it is going to be a list of important commitments. It’s no longer I have to do these 20 things to get my listing live, it is just two questions, how can I serve my clients and what is in their best interest? Those are the things that you will be responsible for. Can you imagine a world where you don’t have to post to Instagram or update the MLS? Or think about filling out the forms for your for your, for your local boards, license renewal, you don’t have to do any of that stuff any longer. Great, but also terrifying for those of us for those of you frankly, who hang your hat on the ability to do that stuff, because you’re not going to have to do it anymore. D.J. Paris 23:39Yeah, I sort of I sort of have a few thoughts about that. So what Chris is saying is absolutely right, it’s going to be wonderful thing for agents in particular with MLS input for listings and just you know, photography all of that is going to be much much simpler and it’s going to just be automated you’ve talked about you know, email marketing and different sorts of ways that that agents are spending their their man hours you know working on responses to clients a lot of that casual stuff or operational stuff will absolutely be automated I’m curious do you think Commission’s will be affected as a result of a lot of a realtors operational tasks being, you know, auto generated or automated to some degree is that going to squeeze commissions because typically when I hear about any when I hear about efficiencies that are, you know, technological efficiencies that are coming, I wonder how that’s going to impact the public’s view of a realtors worth and are they going to want to continue to pay you know, five to 6% to sell their home? Chris Linsell 24:52Yeah, I actually think it’s gonna bifurcate commissions and if my broker is listening I I apologize in advance for the argument, I’m going to start in the office in just a second. I think that Commission’s AI is going to affect Commission’s the following ways it’s going to make, it’s going to drive down the cost of somewhere in the neighborhood of 65 to 70% of real estate professionals, I bet you in three years, I bet you that most real estate professionals, 70% of them will be operating in the realm of what discount brokers operate in right now. flat fee, hourly, that sort of thing. I genuinely think, because there’s so many real estate professionals, frankly, who hang their hat on their ability to access the MLS and schedule showings, that sort of thing does not, that is not a resume skill anymore. So I bet to a whole chunk of those people are going to go down to the discount brokerage level. The other percentage, the other 1520 25, maybe percent of commissions, or a commissioned agents are going to get paid more. And let me tell you why. Because right now, these agents are kind of in the mix with everybody else here, it’s difficult to separate this wheat from the chaff. But AI is going to make it abundantly clear, who has the skills necessary to really serve their clients and their clients needs. On a personal and dynamic and individual basis, it is going to be the difference between a dedicated, like think about it this way, they like the agents who are going to be in this top performers. These are your personal physicians who know that your health and wellness inside and out, they know every square inch of your medical record, and all the rest of these people are going to be WebMD. So you are going to have the opportunity to either have the most premium service available, or you’re going to essentially have a self service experience where somebody is just facilitating access to the platforms that you need. Now, what are the downstream effects of that? It could be hate to say it, it could be a bifurcated experience for a lot of consumers, that only the rich get this premium hands on experience. And the whole, all the rest of us get the self service experience. But let me unlock this as an opportunity for anybody who is thinking about where they fall in here. There is an incredible opportunity for anybody who wants to provide that five star service to those who don’t think that they either deserve it or can afford it. Yeah, you have a chance to bridge that gap to become all of a sudden like, like think about when luxury brands all of a sudden create a line of products that are accessible on multiple price levels, but with the same level of service and integrity. It is it is a transformative moment for those businesses they quadruple or sometimes 10x their business, you could do that. It’s just a matter of understanding, how do I provide that level of service? How do I make it accessible to other people within the market? How do I make it so I am not just serving the elite of the elite? There’s so much opportunity there? D.J. Paris 28:48How would you recommend somebody Mayst would start to think about providing or increasing the amount of service they provide. We talked about, you mentioned the sort of white glove service this this five star service? How does an agent start to evaluate? am I providing that? And if not, what steps should I start to take to improve? Well, Chris Linsell 29:12I mean, I think honestly, this kind of dovetails very nicely with some of the conversations I’ve been having and other people have been having around the effect of these lawsuits that have recently been levied and, and, you know, I’ve hit inflection points against the National Association of Realtors. If you’re not in the loop on that you’re I don’t know where you’ve been. But long story short, National Association of REALTORS was found liable for promoting practices that were seen as uncompetitive or that were uncompetitive. That’s what that’s what the verdict was essentially that collusion essentially correct collusion collusion, a tie tied to the way that we pay by IRS agents specifically and just the Commission, the commission structure in general, promoted by the National Association of Realtors. D.J. Paris 30:09And let me see if I understand because I have a very rudimentary understanding of of why this system was set up the way it was, why it’s a problem. Now, I guess that’s maybe where we could start. So my understanding is that the way that this was set up for to encourage homeownership was to say, Okay, we’re going to, we’re going to do a basically you pay it when you leave scenario, so that as a first time homebuyer, which we want to encourage, in this country, we’re going to you’re the buyer technically isn’t going to shell out write a check for the realtors commission for to their agent, when they purchase a property that is going to be paid, technically by the seller who is going to write that check to both agents, if there are two agents, and then when that home buyer goes to sell their property, they’re then going to pay back into the system that they So my understanding is, it was a way to encourage or incentivize homeowners who didn’t want to or weren’t able to bring, you know, this commission to the table to close to buy a home, and then they’re gonna basically pay back into to it when they sell. Yeah, Chris Linsell 31:18that’s that’s certainly the the kind of the, that’s the National Association of REALTORS explanation for sure. Not to say that you’re, you know, like, you know, puppeting that, that viewpoint, but that’s definitely the argument that they used. I don’t think that that’s a perfect argument, nor do I even think it’s a really a fair characterization, frankly. Agreed. D.J. Paris 31:41Yes, it’s but I would say that was the idea, right, that the National Association of REALTORS will say is, is Hey, and the challenge with that is it’s not really how it works. Because the way that Commission’s yes, technically the seller is going to pay the Commission’s however, it’s all baked into the price anyway, so it really is being shared by the buyer and the seller, regardless of who’s actually writing the check. Right, Chris Linsell 32:06right. So, so thinking about this scenario, we can go, you know, into the lawsuits. In fact, maybe we have an entire episode where we just shrug into lawsuits, because I got a lot of unpopular opinions about both sides of this lawsuit. But as far as applies to kind of our, you know, anyone who’s listening to this, if you’re in the real estate space, and you want to think about how you can start preparing yourself to be on the correct side of that bifurcation of commissions, and make sure you’re not relegated down to the hourly employee, essentially, who’s just pushing buttons. One of the things that you can do right now is to start thinking about not just not just your Commission’s and your lead, you know, lead database, and the clients that you serve, not just thinking about these things as individual transactions, but about thinking about them as an overall building of your portfolio of expertise. And let me let me give you an example of what I mean here. It is rare, that you have a successful attorney who has on his card, something like John Q, attorney, good at law, all of it, you know, like, they don’t just that’s not the way that expertise is built. Same with your doctor, frankly, you do not have a doctor who’s like, John Q. MD, I know the whole body. And now you know, doctors they need to know the whole body. Generally speaking, lawyers need to know the whole law, generally speaking, but these are not the people you pay the big bucks to, nor are they frankly, the people that you would go to if you have a very specific question about a very specific thing, lawyer, medical or otherwise, you as a real estate professional should be thinking about this to each of the clients that you take right now should be a part of building this portfolio of expertise. Such that you have a reason to say I am John Q realtor expert in blank. It is no longer excessive or acceptable to say I am John Q realtor expert in real estate. We’re all experts in real estate. We all have a real estate license. You’re an expert, I’m an expert. We’re all experts. Okay, whether or not we actually have the definitional knowledge that’s a different story. But as far as the public goes, we’re all experts. What you need to start thinking about is separating yourself and your expertise by building a portfolio business the debt bounce traits, what the heck you’re actually good at. Yeah. And one way, a quick and easy way you can start doing this is when you take on new client conversations, let’s say you’ve got a lead who’s interested in buying a house, maybe an interested person is interested in selling a house, the first meeting that you have with them, and this is going to feel so unnatural, I realize this is going to tell me I’m crazy for this. But you need to say something along the lines of, well, I’m interviewing you, too, I haven’t decided whether or not I’m taking you on as a client, I need to make sure that your needs make sense for me as well, to start thinking about every client as an opportunity to build your portfolio of expertise. And if you have potential clients that are not going to work towards building your portfolio of expertise, these might not be the right clients for you. And again, I recognize this is this is first world problems, if you are in a situation where the rent is due, and you’ve got to get a transaction closed, by all means. This is a place where you say you know, I’m going to prioritize this next month. But if you are not in an emergency situation like that, if you if you believe that your expertise, for instance, is in waterside condos, and somebody comes to you with a piece of vacant land out in the middle of the woods, this is not your client. This is not going to help you build that portfolio. D.J. Paris 36:31I think you’re right in real estate. Real estate agents seem to be it seems to be we’re a little bit behind on some of these other specialized professions where, you know, yeah, you pass the bar, you get get your law license, and then you are really specializing in some version of law. Yes, there are general practice attorneys, and there’s general, you know, physician, physicians, general practitioners, and they can do some basic things. And what what they what they will almost always do is is refer out when it comes to something specialized. So I think you’re right, you know, I wouldn’t go to my estate planning attorney, if I had a, you know, a civil matter that I wanted to get resolved or criminal, or, yeah, I would, I would go somewhere else. And I think the opportunity is for each agent to really start to think about as, as you said, very bluntly, but I think elegantly at the same time is what are we actually good at? Right? Not not the collective we the individual, I what am I actually good at? What what service Can I can I provide? And how do I increase? Not only how do I increase my knowledge of that service? But how do I start to rebrand or, you know, just evolve my brand, to really start to focus in one to two sort of specialties. Yeah, Chris Linsell 37:55100%. And let me let me bring this analogy, full circle, the those like just kind of general practice attorneys and general practice physicians, those people play an important role in their field, I’m not gonna I’m not discounting that. But those folks are more akin to that bottom portion of real estate professionals that I was talking about, they are hourly, or flat fee, they are not going to do something specialized for you, they are not going to do they’re not going to execute a specialized task. And that is, Okay, if that’s the kind of real estate you want to practice, there’s ways to be successful there, too. You just have to ramp up your production, you got to be able to close, I mean, seriously, I think in four years, if you’re on the, on the lower side of that bifurcation, you’re gonna have to close 100 transactions a year in order to, to make this you know, a real, a real career that you can scale and be successful in, relative to the, like, 11 that most people do right now. I mean, 10x in your business is not an easy feat. And we’re not going to have 10 to 10x number of transactions in the country. So you’re not just going to have to increase your business, you’re gonna have to take it from somebody else, which, you know, not an easy task either. So, all this to say, don’t be a real estate professional, who is just satisfied, filling out the boxes on the MLS, and just taken every opportunity that comes along. Like you know, and treating them all the same. This is your time right now. We are we are in relatively consequence free zone. We’re on the beach. The wave has not come in on us yet. This is the time to be figuring it out right to be putting sandbags up around the beach house so that when the wave does come in, it’s not going to wash you away. We have the time right now. If you’re not doing it right now. Uh, I mean, I guess, thanks for, you know, for me and mine, you know, we’re gonna be more prepared than you will be. But there’s room for everybody here if we can all get on if we can all get on board for sure. D.J. Paris 40:14Yeah, I’m just trying to think now of what are some practical action steps agents can take one of courses is defining what their actual value is for themselves, you know, really to sit down on a piece of paper and say, Why would I hire me? What is it that I can actually provide? And then how do I market that or two things? How do I improve those skills? Or continue to evolve those skills? And how do I? How do I market that and really start to get people to associate these particular skills, not just I can help you buy, sell rent, etc. But I am particularly good at x. And, and you know, you maybe you’re right, as you start thinking about, if anything is outside of that, it’s tough to say right now to people to do this, to maybe turn away business when the market is is, you know, not as apt not as active as anyone any realtor would like, at this time. But maybe it does make sense to start to think about what might I turn away? That doesn’t necessarily fit into my skill set? And and where can I refer that and still get paid a referral commission? Of course, just like, attorneys do this. I don’t know if physicians operate that same way. But certainly attorneys do. And, you know, just something to think about. Yeah, Chris Linsell 41:32for sure. I mean, one, one practical step you can do right now is, and let me be totally clear, I’m not suggesting that when I want, you know, my this strategy, I’m not suggesting that the strategy is exclusive, meaning this is the only thing that you should do. But one thing that you can do right now, is get together a collection of your colleagues who all specialize in different things to essentially create a referral chain, to be able to say, I’m good at condos, you’re good at vacant land, you’re good at luxury, you’re good at for at first time buyers, you’re good at first time sellers, we need an opportunity to create these referral relationships such that we don’t lose. It’s not about losing business. It’s about appropriately allocating the people who need a podiatrist, to the podiatrist and the people who need an optometrist and the optometrist. It is not a matter of like, of giving up business, it’s a matter of getting it to the right places. And if you find yourself in a situation where you’re like, Well, nobody’s sending me referrals. No, I don’t have anybody to serve us right now. It’s an indicator that your niche is too small for your market. If you do not have anybody that you are good, if there’s no clients for what you’re really good at, you have a skill that nobody is utilizing, that is not necessary for your market. And that’s a clear sign that you need to either switch, expand, or team up with somebody. And this is the kind of the last thing that I would add in the situation is I think we are going to see the emergence in the next three years of I don’t want to say a run, well, maybe I do. We’re going to see an emergence, a renewed importance, emergence of real estate teams, and how teams address the needs of their of their clients, both because it allows a real estate professionals to work together to be able to offer that premium service in a way that they wouldn’t necessarily be able to do individually. And we’re also going to see these teams emerge as vehicles for stability to be able to generate leads together to be able to use technology tools together to be able to share the burden of the business across multiple, multiple people. I mean, teams are pretty popular model right now. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see a dramatic increase in these people are calling team ridges, like brokerages that just focus or function as big teams. I think that might be a thing pretty soon. D.J. Paris 44:21Yeah, it seems like it should be and this idea of just sub specializing and merging, you know, different practitioners together into a team. It’s already happening. It’s been happening for years. And now with the additional sort of pressures of technology that are coming to sort of reduce the need for the general practitioner and increase the need for the sub specialist. I think you’re right that teams are going to start having it’s it’s, it’s going to be a lot of yes on my team. This is the first time homebuyer here’s the condo person Here’s the renter or the rental, you know, agent, etc. and commercial agents and all of that. That’s very, that’s very interesting. I do, I do see that coming, because we’re starting to see that even in our own brokerage, we’re seeing a lot of people starting to team up just to offer a wider breadth of services. And, you know, they’re basically their Commission’s are staying the same, but they’re able to provide better service to their agents. So I think that that’s a lot, you know, I think is a great place to sort of stop for today, because it’s really a lot for our audience to think about is really to start mapping out. What does if I were to specialize in in a couple of areas of real estate, what would that what would that look like? Where and what would I need to adjust? In my business right now to find more of that? How do I find more clients that are first time condo buyers in my market, or, you know, it could be also to like, I work with young families, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a specific type of transaction, it could be a specific type of individual or group of individuals that you enjoy working with, but But creating some sort of specialty, and really thinking about how do I, how do I penetrate that market, through my expertise, and through marketing. And, you know, I also think, too, if you’re not sure what you’re best at the best, because I think a lot of us, you know, we we may have either an inflated sense of self or deflated sense of self, but it might not be always the most accurate sense of how the world perceives us. So if you aren’t sure what your skills actually are, ask your clients, ask them, you know, in a way, say I would I’m trying to revamp my marketing, I would just love to know, if you were to think about why you chose me? And what was it about your experience with me that you know, that that led you to have a happy experience? I think if you ask them for that you will find out very quickly, you’ll start to notice patterns in the way that people respond. And you can start to organize that into a thought of okay, how do I specialize in these kinds of skills? I guess? Chris Linsell 47:09Yeah, 100% 100%. And, you know, the long the short of it is you can strip all of this conversation down to basically a single axiom, which is, do something really well and do it for your clients. If you can do that, you’re gonna be okay. But I know easier said than done. Reminds D.J. Paris 47:31me about something Adam Carolla has been saying, his whole life, he says, I never met a really, really skilled carpenter because he comes from the carpentry world, who was ever out of business, or was ever was ever lacking business. And he said, in really good carpenters are rare. And as a result, they are in high demand. And they are never, never at a loss for work. And you know, that is something to consider as well, as you were saying about, you know, if you have this specialty, but it isn’t being appreciated by your community, or you haven’t maybe effectively marketed it. Or maybe it’s just not that useful to your community. This is where you can start to think about, if I specialize in something, yes, it’s scary to then think I maybe I’ll turn away certain things. But maybe I’ll attract a lot more of my audience who really just wants X, and I’m the person that provides x. And I think that’s true. Like, if you’re good, it’s anything, you’re unlikely to ever be really out of work unless you’re you unless you have some particular skill that’s just not valued in the workplace. But certainly for realtors, everyone’s got to live somewhere, almost 93% of all homes, I believe this is accurate, as a whole. All homes sold, are sold through a realtor in the United States, something like that. So they’re still utilizing realtors. So now it’s time to think about what can I specialize in? And how do I get so good at it, that I’ll, I’ll never have to really worry about being out of work. It’s kind of like becoming become unfavorable if you have a boss. And the way that they say that is provides so much incredible value. I mean, it’s so simple, but it’s hard to do. But if you provide so much value at your company, even if you get fired, you’re going to get picked up by someone else who sees your value. So I think that’s just a really great thing. This time to increase skills, I guess is 100%. Chris Linsell 49:23And you said it perfectly become on fireable guys, we are our own bosses in real estate, become unviable from your own business. That’s that’s the I love it. That’s the best way to leave those blank. D.J. Paris 49:37All right. Well, Chris, we are so so happy to have you back. And we’re Chris is going to be coming on regularly as he was for unpopular real estate opinions with Chris Lynn. So for all things Chris to see his touring schedule to learn more about what his current thoughts are. Go to his website Chris Lynn cell.com You can also book him he you know if you work in particular if you are volunteering at your local association or state association or you’re part of the National Association. Chris has spoken to too many, many associations all over the country. So consider him for your next speech or if you have a brokerage. He would be happy to speak with you about that as well. Also follow him on LinkedIn crystallin Sal, just find him on LinkedIn. We’ll have a link to both of those his website and LinkedIn on the show notes. Chris, welcome back. We are so happy to have you. And we will see everybody on the next episode. Chris Linsell 50:32Thanks DJ

Jerry Wolking with Keller Williams Greater Quad Cities talks about how he transitioned from landscaping business to real estate. Jerry discusses his involvement with Graduate Realtors Institute and how important it is for realtors to seek similar courses. Jerry also the importance of knowing how to navigate your career when the market shifts. Next, Jerry talks about local association and its importance. Last, Jerry talks about how he got into commercial real estate and why. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Jerry Wolking can be reached at (309) 373-0373. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Today we’re going to talk about a realtors most valuable resource. No, it’s not time and it isn’t your clients, it’s actually your reputation. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcasts made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show and in just a moment we’re going to be speaking with Jerry Woking. But before we get to Jerry, just a couple of quick reminders as we finish up 2023 The best holiday gift you can give us not that we’re asking you. But if you are so inspired and love our podcast, please do share it with a friend won’t cost you anything but please send them a link to either our website keeping it real pod.com Every episode can be streamed from any browser or send them a link to from Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you might be listening to this podcast and also please leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. We appreciate it but I hope everybody has a wonderful holiday season we’re going to be cranking out just as many episodes this month as per usual and we have some really exciting things planned for 2024 So stay tuned for that but let’s get to the main event my conversation with Jerry Wilkin. Today on the show my guest is Jerry woking from Keller Williams greater Quad Cities, which is actually Illinois, and Iowa. So there’s four cities for those of you not in the Midwest and not familiar with, I guess Quad Cities was self explanatory, but it actually borders two states, Illinois and Iowa. But let me tell you more about Jerry. By the way, before I get into Jerry’s bio, Jerry is Alex Wilkins father, Alex is somebody we featured recently on our show, we were so incredibly impressed with Alex, if you haven’t listened to that episode, I really encourage you to do that. And Alex is like, Oh, I learned everything from my dad. So we’re like we probably should bring his dad on to who’s also a very successful agent for 30 plus years. But let me let me go through more of Jerry’s bio. Jerry has been in the business since April of 1993. That is 30 plus years. Congratulations. He started as a part time agents like so many of us and became a full time agent a year later in 1994. After selling his landscape company, he is licensed in Iowa and Illinois. And Jerry is one of these rare types of agents who is able to successfully boot residential and commercial. So we’re going to talk a little bit about how he manages both of those lanes. He is also a graduate of the realtors Institute and a certified negotiation expert, in my opinion, the most. One of the designations I think agents should explore because certainly it’s something you can tell your clients that you are a certified negotiation expert. I’m a huge fan of that. Also, he Jerry has served on the Professional Standards Committee, the Grievance Committee and the commercial committee and now teaches classes to realtors on various topics at his local association. Jerry Oh, I’m sorry, fine. You can learn more about Jerry at his website. We will have a link to this in the show notes and in the description, which is QC biz box QC bei zbox.com and goes over what Jerry is all about. Jerry, welcome to the show. Jerry Wolking 4:54Thank you, sir. D.J. Paris 4:56Well, Jerry and I just had we were just talking sort of back Stage, if that’s the right expression, and it was really a lot of fun because Jerry is your so much like, like your son, and he is just such a wonderful young man in this Chicago market. And we’re so grateful to have him on the show. And now we’re so happy to have you. So you’ve been doing this congratulations on 30 years, by the way. Yes, Jerry Wolking 5:21sir. Yes, it’s been a long haul, as D.J. Paris 5:26well, you know, right. Right. Now I well, actually, Jerry, let’s talk about how you got into so I know you were in landscaping, you had a business and why the switch from landscaping to you know, I guess, the way I think about it, landscaping is one of those industries that seems to never go out of fashion. And real estate say people have to live somewhere and people need to maintain their their properties, their lawns, etc. So why to switch from from landscaping. Jerry Wolking 5:57Thank you for asking. I’ve done many, many things DJ I’ve had, I’ve had a very I tell people all the time if I died tomorrow, I have lived a full life. I’ve been a drummer and a heavy metal band for a long time. I raced motorcycles, semi professionally i i sold life insurance, I was a welder at John Deere. I’ve been an auto mechanic. I’ve been a contractor many, many different things. And I found a love of landscape back in the late 80s, early 90s and still do a lot of it today. But you know, the body only holds up for so long. They don’t make a laptop that will plant the 400 pound tree so that that takes its toll after a while but I had always had an interest in real estate. And it here in the Midwest and landscape season is pretty short lived and when it gets November, December, all of a sudden there’s no lawns to mow there, you’re not planting flowers and and the ground is frozen for doing any planting. So the winters would be scarce very scarce. And I was actually working in a body shop and I was getting paid $100 a car to paint cars out in Geneseo Illinois, no heat had a little space heater. And this guy was flipping cars he gave me 100 bucks a car to paint them. I was miserable. And, and I was sitting in this little office and I happened to be reading newspaper on my lunch break. And it said a career in real estate reading in the newspaper. And I’m like, I’ve always had an interest in real estate to see what it’s like. So I had to borrow the money long story short, I was so broke, I couldn’t pay attention. I had to borrow the money to go to my real estate my real estate class started. And I get and went through it passed the class with flying colors pass my test. And then next you know, here I am a real estate agents and that was in April of 93. Still had my landscape company. And as you know real estate being a commission business, I’d never worked in a commission world before. It was scarce to start with, you know, because it is far too easy. Here’s my quote of the day, it is far too easy to get a real estate license it there are so many people in this industry who shouldn’t be in it. And let me preface DJ by saying I’m probably going to say something that offends someone today because I love your show. The name of your show is very fitting. So let’s we’re gonna get real here today. D.J. Paris 8:16Let’s get real. Yeah, Jerry Wolking 8:18there you go. So, you know, I started out like most other agents taking open houses from from the big producers who didn’t want to do them. And at the time, I was working for the one of the largest brokers in the Quad Cities that were the largest broker in the Quad Cities at the time. And we had this thing called floor duty, where you could sit at this table in this little office for two hour shifts. Each agent got two hour shifts, and any phone calls that came into the office inquiring about listings, went to the floor duty person and that was your business to capitalize. So I was taking as many floor duty sessions as I could get most of them in the evening hours five to seven, five to six, because I was out planting trees and mowing lawns during the day. And what had happened was I was getting busy enough after for duty in open houses that I would literally change clothes three and four times a day I would go out and mow two lawns, change clothes, Go show a house go out and plant two trees, change clothes go out and show a house that was going on and on for months. And the turning point for me was I had a showing at a condominium in East Moline and I was planting trees all day I was mud from head to toe and I was late for my appointment like 15 minutes late and I did not have time to go home and change clothes. So I drove to the appointment with my rig had my you know my mowers and everything sticking out the back. I’m in my landscape gear. I’m mud from knees down to my boots, dried mud and as I walk up to the showing and 15 minutes late and the gentleman is sitting on the front porch of this condo on the front stoop. And I said hi my name is Jerry walking. I’m the realtor here to show you the property and he just looked at me he He goes, Are you a real estate agent? And I said, Yes, sir. And I also landscape company. And this was the turning point in my career. This day, this gentleman looked at me, he had a very stern look on his face. And he said, I’m not interested in a part time agent. The next week, the next week, I sold the company, I sold the landscape company and went 100% in two real estate, that was a big jump, and I went five months, my first five months with no paycheck. And I had been used to, you know, having steady income, I had employees at trucks I had, you know, plenty of contracts to do, I sold my company to my dad who was retired from the military looking for something to do. He, by the way, today still runs that same company to this day, off of a lot of the same clients that we had back in the early 90s. But it was that push of that gentleman telling to me telling me I’m not interested in a part time agent that made me go, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t continue to go changing clothes three or four times a day. This went on for months. And it was wearing me out. And I wasn’t succeeding at a high level at either position. Now, you know, because I’m part time landscaper part time real estate agent. So it was probably the greatest slap of reality I could ever get for him to say that. And that’s when it turned and I started taking off from there. And I was lucky enough to have a broker by the name of Irene Romeo, who said to me, you’ve got great stuff, kid, you need to go to GRI now. That’s where you need to get so I did my my first full time year I started GRI did the I think he did a fall session spring session fall session I didn’t consecutively learn to not and it catapulted me forward on being able to get my business started and growing. So I’ve been surrounded by a lot of great people who helped me get started and saw something in me that was worth that was worth nurturing. So I’m very fortunate that way. D.J. Paris 11:54And for any of our listeners who aren’t familiar with GRI Do you mind sharing just a little bit about what that is? That’s Jerry Wolking 11:59a graduate Realtors Institute. One of the things I noticed today, we I’ve written several real estate classes. My partner Deborah and I, we’ve written classes, she does all the technical stuff, the PowerPoints and all that and we presented these classes to realtors, and now the Board of Realtors has picked them up. But GRI is a class is a segment of classes from everything about marketing, about personal growth, about the real estate industry about appraisal. It’s a great place for residential agents to go and get a lot of education in a short period of time because it’s like four and five consecutive days of classes. And one of the things that I’ve noticed is now is brokerages, at least in our area. And please know everything I’m saying is based on our area because that’s what I know. They’re fragmenting so much it used to be in the early 90s There were two 800 pound gorillas here in town. And they controlled everything one of them control 52% of the market at one time. So every other house was listed by this brokerage well as these other companies have come into play, Keller Williams exp, and all these other companies that are coming. It’s fragmented the talent. But what happens when you fragment the talent, unfortunately, is those startup brokerages don’t have the resources or the time to train those agents properly. And that that creates now we’ve got an industry full of the blind leading the blind. And it gets chaotic. And you can ask any veteran agent most of the time. It’s the new agents that are exciting to watch when they’re growing, but they’re also the ones that tend to get in the way it’s not their fault. It’s because nobody’s teaching them. That’s why I said earlier, it’s far too easy to get a real estate license because real estate pre licensed course they don’t teach you anything about the business. You know, it’s all law and agency and all those sort of things, but don’t teach you anything about getting through a transaction how to get through a bad appraisal, how to get through a bad home inspection. And in my opinion, commercial this is just my opinion, commercial and residential should be two completely different licenses. Why why are they able to do both is beyond me. They are two different animals. But so back to GRI what GRI does is takes for a small brokerage or brokerage who doesn’t have a training or mentor program, put those new agents through GRI put them through CRS, the CRS and the GRI courses will teach you years and years of knowledge that you’re not getting just by bumping and banging your way through the pinball machine. In you learn from you know, I’ve said I’ve gotten enough credit hours from the school of hard knocks that I could graduate with a master’s degree now. So but luckily I was at a brokerage that had a great training program. We had some we had a mentor program in place that was very, very helpful. So GRI CRS for residential agents starting up dad is one of the first places that I would go to start getting Your real estate training unless your brokerage offers D.J. Paris 15:03or even in addition to what your brokerage, what your Jerry Wolking 15:07I attended, what I see a lot of is a lot of training and exercise and efforts, put in the areas of lead generation, lead generation is awesome. But if you get a bunch of leads, and you don’t know how to convert them, or you don’t know how to keep their transactions together, you’re shooting fish in a barrel and are coming right back to life again, through another agent somewhere. It’s a bad experience for everyone all around when you don’t have knowledge and skills to close a transaction. D.J. Paris 15:32Yeah, let’s talk about the current sort of climate for realtors right now. So we’re recording this. So it’s we’re getting close to Thanksgiving 2023. We know interest rates are higher than buyers would prefer in relation to where they were three years ago, not in relation to historic averages. But the buyer temperature out there is cool to bid because of the interest rates, a lot of people are locked in or at least feel maybe locked in to a refinance rate they did years ago, I know I feel this way I have a 3% rate on my primary residence. And I don’t want to give that up. And so we have a lot of people like me, who are in a similar situation. So there’s not much inventory, obviously not as many buyers flooding the market. And also it’s the end of the year that tends to slow things down as well. So Jerry, you’ve been doing this 30 years, what do you know that people who haven’t been through this kind of part of the cycle of the business, maybe it’s maybe some part of a down cycle? What do you know that that? Or what would you say to somebody who’s who’s struggling right now? Yeah, in this area? Great Jerry Wolking 16:43question. So, so where I pride myself mostly DJs. In my I have, you know, I’m not one of the top 1% producers, as we talked about earlier, but but I can weather the storm, because I can wear many hats. Being is as well experienced in both residential and commercial as I am. It allows me to adapt in many different ways I can go where the hunt is, and I’m very comfortable going where the hunt is, there’s no conversation with any agent that I’m not comfortable having now, regardless of what you produce. I can I can hold that conversation with you. And there was times when, when I remember in down markets, it wasn’t so much. Where’s my next lead? Where’s my next deal? It was what can I learn to get me that next week? What can I learn to get me that next deal, I’ve always built my career on being the chase, not the chaser. And the way I’ve done that is by learning things and getting in depth knowledge on different ways to do things. So you know, when I came in the business in 1993, interest rates were still double digit. So when we hear people talk about now the interest rates are climbing, interest rates are climbing, my first house was 11.75%. And that was on a special lottery drawing rate. I had to stand in line at 530 in the morning to get a lottery ticket to get this special low rate of 11.75%. And I was one of the people chosen. So yes, rates have increased, they doubled from where we were a year or so ago in some cases. But when those things happen, like when 2008 2009 rolled around, that was a huge change foreclosures were coming on the market everywhere. So my adaption was if there is there’s foreclosures and things that’s coming on the market, that means the investors are coming out of the woodwork. So how do I get to work with the investors? I got to learn the investment game and I had some real estate investments before. But I dove deep into figuring out net operating income and what is the vacancy factor? And, and what’s what’s my cost coming in? What’s the cost outlay going to be for purchased this home for 36,000? What’s it going to cost to get it up to 110. So you can be profitable, learned about holding costs, all of those sorts of things, a lot of it, I knew already in the back of my mind, but it moved it to the forefront of the mind. So as the market changes, and it is changing, you need to look at other ways that you can be helpful that you can be of service to the public good. You can be of service maybe to other agents, because when you don’t have something to offer, there’s no reason for anyone to call you. So I just got I just got a call yesterday from a gentleman who wanted to fight his property taxes. His assessment went up considerably. So we took a look at his properties. And I called them yesterday and I said I said Chuck, you might want to keep your mouth shut. They got you assessed at 65,000 square foot. Be quiet. Don’t play that game because you should be higher than what they’re assessing you at. So it just that piece of advice and information alone was priceless to him because he showed up to spend $900 $1,000 on two appraisals. So just by giving that information, but he’s called me multiple times over the last three or four years we’ve done Two or three transactions with this gentleman. But so the point being, there’s always somebody buying something, there’s always somebody selling something, how do you get in front of those people? And how can you be valuable to that particular part of the market when it becomes an investor market be valuable to the investors if it’s a buyers market be valuable to the buyers. But it’s a seller’s market be valuable to the sellers in use constantly, ever changing. Adaptability, learning to be adaptable to what’s in front of you right now, I talked to an agent of a couple years ago. And when the 2008 crash hit, his business dropped dramatically. So he learned how to fight tax assessments. And he was charging people I think, $150 or something like that, to put together their tax assessment, though, he would give them all the information, and they would go to the board of appeals and fight their taxes. But that kept him alive, kept him in the game kept him relevant. And so then when those people, when the market started to turn, they come to list or sell. He’s the guy they call because he got them out of a bad situation, whatever. So I’m very big on knowing the game not just being in the game, but knowing the D.J. Paris 21:07game. Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more, as you were giving so many great examples there, I was thinking, you know about the current situation where I don’t know what the percentage is anymore, I want to say it’s 85% of homeowners in the US have a mortgage rate of less than 4%. That may not be true with a capital T, but it’s close enough to where we have a lot of these people like myself, you know, anyone who has a mortgage who’s refinanced or, you know, in the last several years probably has a pretty attractive rate. So I think there’s a huge opportunity for agents to start having conversations with people like me, people who feel trapped in not trapped, but locked into this low rate. And say, actually, there are some creative solutions. If you did want to move right now, there are ways we can sort of, you know, navigate through high interest rate environments like to like buy downs, for example, there are this is this, I think, is really were in a good agent is separating separate from, you know, really divides the good agents from from the not good agents, because the good agents will will will call somebody before they call them going, Hey, I’m thinking about buying or selling right now. Because maybe there’s lots of people right now that aren’t thinking about that. But if it was me, I would be calling everybody I know saying, Hey, I just want to give you my take on what’s going on right now. If you are thinking of a move, we do have some options and creative ways to explore that. But again, just establishing that, as you said, I’m just not in the market. I know the market. I know what’s going on. I think that’s so important. Jerry Wolking 22:44Yeah, it was to touch on what you said about the buy downs that there’s one of the things right there that you should be focusing on right now as an agent coming in, in the game, how does financing work? And one of the first things that I started learning about when I got into business, I would notice and remind you I was in the business before the pre approval thing was a big deal. So now it’s it’s pretty much standard. But I remember you could get pre approval letters and everybody that was like golden. But I sat down with a lender name was Brenda Wilde one day I talked her on the phone. I said, Brenda, what are my qualifying ratios when I’m talking to people? I want to know when I’m holding these conversations with people about buying debt. Yes, you can’t afford to buy so many times, EJ if somebody said, Well, I can’t afford to buy. Well, where are you living now? Well, I rent a little apartment. How much are you paying 1300 a month, or $1,300 a month here in the Quad Cities, you know, our market is about a third of what you that are there in Chicago $1,300 A month I’ll buy you 140 $150,000 house. And a lot of people don’t even realize that. So I’ve had a lot of success in converting renters into homebuyers, because they didn’t think that they could buy not realizing what it cost. They don’t understand downpayment, they don’t understand closing costs. So there again, whenever you’ve got storms like this happening, there’s usually programs that all of a sudden spring up to help keep the market of flow. So you learn about first time homebuyer programs. You learn about programs for veterans that veterans can use, there’s usually something out there to help people. So you have to go learn that program. Because let’s face it, if you’re doing 3040 transactions a year, and then all of a sudden that drops to 15. You need to make up that difference somewhere if you’re going to stay in the game. This is when we see markets like this is when we’ll see the agent count start to drop. It happens all the time. And as is the real estate market picks up all of a sudden everybody wants to be a realtor because they’ve watched HDTV and they like houses I love That’s my reason for getting in the business because I like houses. Okay, let’s see how long that lasts after you’ve shown 137 of them in four days. But anyhow, just learning where there’s always an apple to pick somewhere and is watching closely and learning to see what that is. There’s always nothing stops dead. There’s always some movement somewhere When D.J. Paris 25:00you said something really important earlier, which was about providing value being of service? And yes, that really is the name of the game and in my in my opinion, it’s yeah, it’s it’s really, I think it’s, it’s a creative fun thing to to consider for your business. Because you know, we have this database of customers we have or prospects, and we go, Gosh, I don’t why do I? Why Why would I, I don’t have any reason to call so and so well, you should have reasons to call them you should know a lot about every one of your contacts in your database, you should know what’s going on in their lives. And you if nothing else, if there’s nothing to talk about with real estate, you could at least contact them and celebrate things that they’re experiencing or or helping them with any like, you know, Jerry, for example, is, you know, he has been doing this 30 years. Do you think he knows the best Roofers in town? Of course he does. He knows the best accountant. He knows the best inspectors. So Jerry is is breadth of wide breadth of information that he gets to then reach out to his sphere and say, Hey, I’m your guy. I know these things. And of course, that takes time to develop lists like that. But if you can start to put your value proposition together, and start to think about how can I continuously add value, people only buy and sell when every five to 10 years, seven to 10 years, whatever it is. So you better figure out something that you can do in those seven to 10 year windows, where you’re going to stay in front of them. And it’s probably not just your real estate, email newsletter, hey, that’s fine, whatever, it’s fine. But you should be thinking about other things that those customers actually want to learn about. During that time. To obviously, just keep your name in front of them. Yeah. Jerry Wolking 26:43And being very involved in your community. That’s where Alex has had huge success. Being very involved in your community became become the the source. I just had a guy text me here last week, he goes, You’re my source, man. But I need something. You’re my source. So what a great compliment, actually, for you and I got online, I was texting a previous client who’s like, hey, I need somebody to put windows in Who do you suggest, you know, being that go to source that keeps you in front of people a lot of times, but being involved with your community is another big way. Because people recognize your name. And I’ve been around long enough now. I can be be anywhere Menards or Lowe’s and I’ll put down my debit card and the person go, oh, you the real estate guy. That’s awesome. To hear that they know you for that. But yeah, there’s this being involved on different levels and being of service to everyone around you. That part I think I’ve done very well. I’ve been very fortunate to be able to help a lot of people with a lot of things. And a lot of times DJ the business comes to me just because of those things. Not not not because I’m out, you know, pushing my Facebook post, or, or I’m the greatest realtor. And none of that is just because I’ve established a relationship on a different level through a different avenue. And they know you’re the real estate guy, right? Yeah. Why do you ask you buying or selling? What I’m thinking about selling my mom’s house, whatever. Next thing, you know that conversation is going whenever someone says to me, you’re the real estate guy, right? I always say, Are you buying or selling. And then we go from there to conversations things into something. I D.J. Paris 28:15love that it reminded me of one of one of the interviews I had a few a year or so ago, where a woman gave a suggestion that I had not heard before. And it’s so simple. And that, you know, if you have a local newspaper, for example, most most markets do. And you know, reach out to who’s ever in charge of the real estate portion of not necessarily the advertising. But if anyone’s you know, the real estate person to talk about what’s going on real estate wise in the community and start sending them stats, say, Hey, mister missus, reporter, I’ve got some stats about what’s going on out here. I thought maybe that would be helpful for you because they’re looking for content. And I said, Oh, that’s such a smart idea. Because people still read newspapers as much as we think people don’t some some people do, of course. And this is another way to get your name out there. And to be seen as an expert, when you can help a journalist with making sense of what’s going on out there. There’s a million ways to do it, to be of service and to be a value. And I want to make a big strong push, Jerry, with your help to encourage our audience to get involved with their local association. I want to talk about why that’s important, and how that can benefit the individual because I wish I would have done that. 14 years ago. I just started getting involved about five years ago. And I wish I could go back and get involved at our local level earlier because what it did for me and I’m curious to get your thoughts. What it did for me is not only did it did it, is it a lot of fun and we do a lot of good work and we’re here to support the industry, the real estate industry, and I got to make some wonderful friends along the way people who are like minded people Who want to see the industry succeed, and also just mastermind with all these great agents who also give back. And so I’ve learned more about the industry, I have a better social life. And and I’m doing good out there, or I think we’re doing some some version of good out there. So I’m just Just curious. And also, there’s so many great things the association’s offer, that the members oftentimes don’t take advantage of trainings, you know, all sorts of things. But just, I want to make a pitch for everybody to consider getting involved. And just want to hear your thoughts on that. Oh, absolutely. Jerry Wolking 30:30There again, when I first got in my career, I was so blessed to have Irene Romeo, who pushed me towards GTRI. But I was also still to this day, I hear this gentleman’s voice, I see his face. And I asked questions, sometimes I get into situation and I’ll and I’ll be to myself, What would Fred tell me to do? Fred Desso, the best broker in the business as far as I’m concerned, he’s just a wealth of knowledge. And and he always has an answer. Even if he has to make it up. He always has an answer, but I just love talking with him. He’s just full of wisdom. But both of those agents are very involved with the both those brokers were very involved with the board, they suggested I get involved with the board. And I did, I got involved with the board very early on with the professional standards, the Grievance Committee, the regional professional standards, sitting on different various committees throughout the board, and we have a dynamite Board of Realtors. But it teaches you not only do you get to know the players and who’s who in real estate, but you also see the adversity sometimes that people are dealing with from a whole different perspective. See, it’s very easy as an agent, you have a rub with another agent somewhere and you’re defending your position. But if you get out of yourself and get into what is that person experiencing. And by being on the board and hearing, especially on like the grievance committees and professional standards, you hear those stories and things going on, and then you start to have a little little more compassion for I get it, I know why they got in this position. But it helps getting yourself in that position, you know, at some point in time, and it just helps move the board forward as well. So I cringe a little bit when somebody complains about some of the board raise the rates again, well, of course, they did just look at the economy in general, that’s not the board trying to gouge you. The board’s trying to keep up so I get a little offended sometimes when people complain about a board because our board does a lot for us. We have a great MLS, we have great keysafe system, we have great leadership, we’re in great position financially. And that’s all from having good people sitting at the table. So you learn a lot from the inner workings of the business, when you’re involved at the board level as well. It’s not You’re not seeing it from your little perspective, but seeing it from the overall marketplace that you’re in. So highly, highly encourage getting involved with the board at some point in time. I D.J. Paris 32:59couldn’t agree with you more, I think I’d be shocked if it didn’t result in actually indirectly getting you more business, even though that’s not why you’re going to do it with Jerry Wolking 33:10us. Yeah, I think I told you earlier, a lot of the commercial referrals I get are from residential agents, even from other brokerages. They have their own brokers, and they’ll refer me people because I can speak their language or I’ve sat on a committee with them. And at some point in time, so I’ve established that relationship. You know, there’s a great dynamite agent here in the Quad Cities, his name is John locust and, and he’s told me once I saw him last year, I did a class I was teaching, and he said, you know, you have two reputations in this business, one from your peers and one from the public. And that is very true. That is very true. So D.J. Paris 33:45yeah, I want to I’m going to say that I’m going to say that for Jerry, again, we have two reputations in our industry, one with our peers, for remember is called a cooperative commission. Everybody cooperative compensation, and, and and with our clients as well. So those are two separate things. And oftentimes, the relationship between the agent and the customer might be different from the agents and to other agents and you want to have a good relationship with both because you both have to play in the same sandbox. Jerry Wolking 34:17Absolutely. And, yeah, D.J. Paris 34:20I want to I want to talk about the importance of learning the market. So when when people are newer to the industry, of course, the primary focus is on lead generation as it probably should be. And they also have to become good at the job which of course, we’re talking about skills. So I want to talk about actually becoming a good realtor. So there’s the marketing side, the lead gen side. I’ve talked about that. A ton on the show over the years, million ways to lead generate. I would like to speak to you and get some best practices in your opinion about if if I was a newer agent and I’m full could sing in a local area? How might I start to learn about the actual inventory? Price points? You know, what, what do you recommend? Because ultimately, you do want to be an expert in some some geographical area. Yeah, Jerry Wolking 35:14yeah. And, again, that’s where Alex has excelled. He’s learned his neighborhood just by walking the streets getting involved with neighborhood associations, those sorts of things. And myself area, because we’re in the Quad Cities, there’s a large difference between the Iowa and Illinois sides of the river. Valuation wise, big difference. In fact, the joke is, for a lot of us, it’s not the Mississippi rivers, the Mississippi ocean, because it there is a huge divide between the two sides of the states. If you’re an outsider, coming in, a lot of it looks like one big city here to us. But from those of us who live here, it’s very territorial. The difference between Iowa and Illinois and the islands, to try to get somebody from Iowa to come to Illinois is very difficult. Although there’s one little catch to that. But we there seems to be more people moving from Illinois go into the Iowa side, the property taxes are less those sorts of things. So by knowing your market is knowing not only the price of the home, the sell price of the home, how many days on market, that’s all stuff that you can get from your stats. And by looking at it. But knowing what makes those areas tick, what makes those neighborhoods work, like Alex talks about the neighborhoods and he’s worked in, he knows the historical, the history of a lot of those homes. He knows who owns those homes, he knows who lives in them. Now, those sorts of things. Same as myself, I look at things more from a I’m a very mechanical person, I’m blessed with the ability to fix or build anything. In fact, 20 minutes before I got online with you, I was I was putting brick and mortar on some columns. I’m building a site but I learned the neighborhoods from the architecture from the years they were built from the mechanicals that were used to build them like for example, a simple example would be here we have certain neighborhoods that have this sewer system called Orangeburg pipe. Not all four cities have the habit Moline hardly use it at all. Rock Island uses it a lot that dwarf the older parts of bettendorf used it Northwest Davenport used it a lot. It’s failing across the board, it’s getting old enough now that it’s collapsing, it’s not a question of will it collapse, just when so buy when I’m representing buyers, going to those particular neighborhoods, I’m asking that house in into we’re just Orangeburg pipe us there because that’s kind of set forth and inspection that maybe I would not use in Moline. So knowing your market that way, not only valuations and wise, but what makes that neighborhood work? Where are the city streets? Where’s their development coming bike, if you go to bettendorf in North Davenport, you know, to 53rd Avenue corridor, I know you don’t know what that is. But 20 years ago, that was cornfield. Now, it’s 200,000 plus per acre, to go out there. So if I’m leading an investor, and he’s going to be looking forward to long term buy and hold properties, let’s go where the growth is next, you know, so our cash flow may be a little less right now. But in the end result of property value increase. So it’s knowing the market that way as well. And not just average sale price and things of that nature. There’s so many other things in the intrinsic values is what I call it, what else is happening there? Are their school closings coming up, or their school boards and merging. Is there we just had a new Amazon development that come into town here this year. Where’s that? What’s gonna happen around that area, we have an area called the T BK that’s growing like wildfire out there. Those sorts of things. It’s knowing the market from from that aspect, as well as the dollar values and things of that nature, if that makes sense. D.J. Paris 38:47It makes perfect sense. I was just thinking that one specific example about the Amazon like a distribution center, or whatever’s coming coming out your way. That’s a really, it’s a really interesting sort of comment, because there is opportunity there because now we know they’re going to be hiring people to work at this particular plant, or maybe they already have people there. But just getting curious about what is that going to do? Where are those people going to come from who are going to work there? Where are those people may be live? What would their commute look like? If they are coming from further away? And maybe they now want to move closer to the facility? You know, where’s where are the school districts that are desirable for people, you know, understanding that, what the needs of those, you know what, here’s what’s coming? Situations, I think are making just incredibly valuable. You’re more proactive than reactive because, yes, I want to I wanted to also switch gears and talk a little bit about commercial because this is we have about 800 agents in our firm and boy, a lot of them who are really residential agents go I would like to dabble a little bit in commercial. And of course that’s like what does that even mean? Because there’s Lots of different sectors of commercial. And of course, it’s not just a, you can’t paint it all with the same brush commercial could mean lots and lots of different things. But you, you really straddle both, which is impressive and difficult. So I’m curious about how did you get into commercial and why Jerry Wolking 40:17being a bigger business owner in the past, commercial use was important to me. Because I needed space, I needed a shop space. And it’s probably one of the calls I get most is for people for shop space, but I guess had an interest in it and watching it. And I like math and working with numbers who work with numbers a lot. And I noticed there was a void. There was a void in that marketplace as far as people being serviced, and a lot of it was from intimidation. A person wants to start a business and they’re not sure where they’re going to find space. So they don’t know what a triple net lease is. They don’t know the difference between triple net and a gross, and they don’t know what cam charges are. And it wasn’t being explained to them on many levels. And and there used to be signs I remember seeing signs up that would say you’re in front of a space that would say available, what is available means it means for sales that mean it’s for rent, what is available mean? And I so I just started learning the language itself and managed to get into a couple of transactions and started learning from there. But there’s the difference DJ, I started learning, I didn’t just do the transaction and get a commission and walk away. I wanted to know the why. How does it work? So So you know, started doing a lot of reading leases, just just going through them and reading what does that mean calling an attorney say okay, this clause says this, what exactly does that mean? And took a CCI M course some different CCM courses, reading articles and realtor magazine, truly learning what it’s like or what it is to be a commercial practitioner, because I truly believe with the whole of my heart that commercial and residential should be two different licenses. And they’re not. And unfortunately, you know, I was really looking at one of your podcasts from another gentleman, I can’t remember where he’s from. But he’s talked about staying in your lane and referring out I think he said when he bought his own house, he referred to a residential agent to buy his own house, because he didn’t know that area. And unfortunately, our license gives us the ability to list and sell just about anything. And that creates problems. And you know, the commercial practitioners they get irritated with our residential person is trying to do a deal with them. And I can see why then that agent will call me say, well, he won’t talk to me and won’t give me the information. And it’s because you’re not going to know what to do with it even if they gave it to you. And if you’re going to represent a tenant, for example, let’s take a tenant that’s going to go and lease this space. And it’s $13 a square foot, you know, net lease and you got to canvass $7 a square foot and you can’t calculate that rent, or you look at their lease, and you can’t determine if it has an escalation clause. And what is that escalation clause? What is the escalation clause based on as far as the rent, increase those sort of things, there’s so much trouble that you can get a person into because you didn’t know how to play that particular game or didn’t know how to guide them. And you should really stay out of that, because you could think about it. I take it very personal as my responsibility. If I’m representing a tenant, and I’m getting D.J. Paris 43:26weak Jerry there for just a second. He’ll be popping right back in so bear with us just a moment. There’s Jerry. Okay, once. All right, we that’s okay. You we were just finishing up with we were just talking about commercial and how maybe referring out is, you know, staying in one’s lane and yeah, not necessarily practicing until you’re competent, so to speak. Yeah, Jerry Wolking 43:52exactly. So if you’re going to do a commercial Ted, you use the term dabble. I hear that all the time. Don’t dabble. And Don’t, Don’t dabble, your financial responsibility that you have for that client is huge. And it can be the determining factor of their business profitable, they’re not because you got them in a bad lease in a bad position or something where they made a bad purchase. And there’s so much more than just pricing and dollar per square foot and all that it’s what are the environmental, what’s the environmental outlay look like? You know, Is there potential problems there? I lost the listing once because I noticed the test spot on the building and I asked the gentleman about it, and he’s like, Oh, that’s nothing I meant nothing. Because across the parking lot, I see a trailer over there. This is environmental survey or something like what what is this all about? Come to find out he had been contaminated by a neighboring gas station and he didn’t want anyone to know that. So when I asked him to prove to me you’ve got a clean site. It cost him $5,000 But it made him angry and he pulled the listing from me and I was okay with that. I’m okay with that. Take that list right If can’t be honest with it, but yeah, so you’ve got to know the game is more than just making a commission because you can make huge especially in commercial, you can make some really big mistakes, and people are relying on you the expert, and you did not give them expert advice. D.J. Paris 45:18Yeah, I agree. So if you know, or at the very least partner with a commercial agent and be you know, their apprentice or be their shadow, while you are educating yourself on the transaction, just make make your life as easy as possible. Don’t, don’t take on clients that you can’t service, it’s, it’s just not gonna Jerry Wolking 45:42only make your life easy, but it’s take care of that client the best way you can and some way, you know, I would not go to my dentist to get my ankle operated on. They’re both in the medical profession. But you know, they’d be able to figure it out. Maybe, but no, I take that responsibility very, very personally, and I wish more agents would do. So there’s a lot to know in the commercial world and you need to learn that game. Yes, you can bang your way through. I’m happy to help anyone who will get through a transaction, but I don’t partner very often, I’ve been asked to do 5050, I’ve always turned it down except for one occasion. Because it won’t be 5050 It’d be more like 7525. And so I have offered it if someone wants to 5050 Look, I’ll coach you through if you want to try that. If you want to try the transaction, but you need to put in your time, you need to serve your pain, because there’s a lot to learn and it’s not gonna be as easy as you think it is. D.J. Paris 46:41Yeah, I agree. I think for everyone listening right now, there’s the you know, to sort of recap everything Jerry was was talking about on the show. We On this episode, I think we’re really speaking of his competence, and I think or skill development maybe is a better way to say it. Let’s make 2020 for the year of skill development. So what how are you going to do that? Well, you’re going to lean on your brokerage for additional trainings, you’re going to seek out certifications like GRI, certified negotiation expert like Jerry, who’s who’s does both? You’re going to reach out to your local association, not just to maybe serve on a committee, but also to find out what are they offering? What sort of trainings and support are they providing to agents, remember, we do pay our associations quite a bit of money. So there are lots of services I’m, I’m on our member care taskforce here in Chicago, I didn’t even know all of the benefits and services that we provide to our members. Until I now I’m the vice chair of the committee and I still don’t know them all by heart. So reach out to your local association, especially if you’re struggling and say, Hey, I’m struggling right now. Do you have any suggestions for classes I can take people I can talk to, you know, and also, as Jerry said, you know, we got to learn the market, right? So this is a great opportunity to really do a deep dive into your local market. Get that expertise so that when people do reach out to you, you have knowledge about what’s going on. Jerry Of course, does 30 years in the business. I think this is a great place to wrap up I do want to encourage anyone who’s a buyer seller and investor, commercial or residential who is interested in doing something in the Quad Cities area Jerry wilking is your man please reach out to him Jerry if there are any buyers sellers investors out there that would love to speak to somebody with your expertise what’s the best way the Jerry Wolking 48:34best way for me actually DJs to text me because I respond to texts we get so many bombarded with people trying to sell us Internet services and marketing services text me because then I have a greater chance of knowing that you’re real and that you’re legit but or email email me very well also. D.J. Paris 48:55Yeah, do you mind sharing your your number numbers 309-373-0373 Jerry Wolking 48:57and email is Jerry walking kw@gmail.com. D.J. Paris 49:08Well, Jerry walking Keller Williams Quad Cities the not only a 30 year veteran in the industry amazing reputation and has a now a son who is crushing it here in the Chicago market. This is the first time we’ve done a father son not combined episode but had a father and son on the show at different times. So it is it is no surprise how, why, how and why Alex is doing so well. Jerry, so congrats to you on your career and also on raising another realtor family who is not just not just surviving but thriving in thriving in this market. So please check out Alex’s episode and let’s send Jerry’s episode to anyone else in your area. Any other realtor that may be struggling right now guess what? Everybody’s struggling a little bit right now. So send them a link To this episode, the best way you can help us our listeners is by telling a friend just think of one other realtor that could benefit from all the great stuff Jerry said and shoot them over a link to this episode. Also leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. We would greatly appreciate it on behalf of our audience. Want to thank Jerry, for coming on. We appreciate you, Jerry, thank you gave us tons of great strategic sort of objectives that we can do right now. And on behalf of our audience want to thank Jerry for spending his time with us today. We will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks Jerry. You’re Jerry Wolking 50:32awesome. Thank you, man.

Kim Rittberg is an award-winning Digital Content Strategist and On-Camera Coach who helps real estate professionals and business owners grow their income leads & credibility with video and podcasts. She spent 15 years as a media executive at Netflix, PEOPLE Magazine, and in TV News and she launched the first-ever digital video unit for Us Weekly magazine. Kim coaches real estate agents to be better on-camera and make unforgettable social media, video & podcast content that brings in leads, clients and revenue. Kim has spoken at the Berkshire Hathaway Home Services National Convention, been featured in Business Insider and Fast Company and has been a speaker and instructor at PENN and Syracuse University. She also hosts The Exit Interview with Kim Rittberg podcast spurred by her decision to quit corporate and launch her own business after working in the hospital while giving birth to her second child. The podcast helps women craft careers that work for their life – instead of the other way around. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Connect with Kim Rittberg on Instagram. Grab her free download – Sell More Homes With Better Quality Videos. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Today our resident video expert Kim Rydberg is going to show you how to make great video content. When you’re all alone. Stay tuned to this episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads in interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Kim Rittberg 1:29Hey, keeping it real folks. I’m Ken rickford. It’s always a pleasure to be here with you. I’m really excited to talk to you today about how to make content alone. And the reason why that’s so important is because all of us need to be making content all the time to grow our business. So as a real estate agent, you need to make content, you don’t always have somebody with you. If you do have an assistant or a social media manager, that’s awesome. But a lot of times you don’t. So I’m going to go through the specific details on how to make content when you’re alone. So I’m Kim Britt Berg, I’m an award winning Digital Marketer. I spent 15 years in media, meaning I was the person writing and producing scripts for national news outlets like inside edition and Fox, I even went to the Oscars for Us Weekly. I was the video head for Us Weekly. And now I love taking all that knowledge about how to write scripts, create content that really appeals to people from social media, and help you real estate agents grow your business. And I’ll tell you the rules about what makes great content never changes, the platform changes how you make it changes, the technology is much more accessible now. But making great content is universal. And you can learn it, it’s a skill you can learn. And I now teach agents across the country, in group courses, my video bootcamp course, and I do one on one work where I work directly with agents to help them make better content specifically to get leads to sell more homes, and to get more clients to grow your revenue. So I want to jump right into how to make content when you’re alone. So I was thinking about this recently, I went to Paris. Very nice, where I went to Paris. And I went to Paris to piggyback my husband’s work trip. And so when did it happen was I had a day where I was by myself and I was like dressed nice. And I want to shoot some content. I’m like, okay, like thinking in advance, what am I going to do when I shoot the content? What am I going to use? What tools am I going to use, and I realized, this is great. This is something I teach my clients and students in my courses, so I wanted to bring you into it. So when you’re thinking about filling by yourself, the situations where you might need it is you might be doing a home tour, you might be filming something in your area, right like a local restaurant or a bar. Again, a big part of being a real estate agent is being that trusted person that trusted resource. And so you want to be bringing people into what’s in your area, presenting yourself as that local expert, you don’t always have someone to film you. Ideally, if it’s a super active filming session, you have someone but you might not. So when you’re on a real estate tour, maybe you’re doing a neighborhood tour, maybe you’re just filming a video about your area. And it’s not necessarily a tour, but you’re featuring like something that you love, right. So it’s very important to understand how to film by yourself. So number one, thinking about what materials you might need. I’m a big advocate of like not over buying things, I have a whole cabinet basically a graveyard of dead equipment that I don’t use. Because even if I know how to use it, I don’t feel like using it. It’s either cumbersome or hard to set up. And if you’re not a super techie, it’s just annoying. So I’m a big advocate of only buying what you really need. When we’re talking about filming by yourself. What you can do, I think the bare minimum is really some sort of tripod with a ring light. And now if you’re sitting in your office and you’re not out on the go, a standing tripod, meaning there’s like three tries three things on the bottom, a stand, you can put your phone in it and a light around it, that’s gonna light you nicely and that’s not going to have your phone bubble around. Now if you’re on the go, it’s important to get something like that but that really can fit in your bag and your briefcase, whatever, that you can Bring with you. Not too big, not too cumbersome. So, one thing is if you’re filming content on the go, like for example, like I mentioned, I was in Paris, I had a selfie stick, that then doubles as a tripod. Why is that a great physical and to have so the selfie stick, you can hold it across, you can hold it out from you, and then you can film yourself. But when I opened the tripod, that’s when I could sit it on the street and walk by and create content capture content without needing someone to help me. So that was an all in one. So I bought us a little selfie stick, that then had a little tripod that opens out from the selfie stick. So selfie stick has like an arm, a metal arm, those little tripod legs folded out from it, it folded down to a really small size that could fit in my purse. So to me, that’s very important. I’m on vacation, I’m not carrying around a backpack, I’m just wearing a regular bag. So that is what I got. So again, I recommend a tripod with a ring light, whatever size fits where you’re going to be. So if we’re talking about filming on your own, and you’re going into an apartment and you’re kind of by yourself, yeah, just bring a tripod with a ring light set it up. But if you really think you’re gonna be out on the go, I would recommend getting like a traveling tripod a small one. And if you’re looking for like specific materials, you can message me you can message me on Instagram. I’m Kim Rydberg ri TTP ERG message me and I’ll give you some ideas. So once you have your materials, you bought your equipment, you have to think about what you’re gonna film, right. So you have to have a plan in mind. So let’s say for example, you want to film something awesome in your town, maybe you want to feature a really great new restaurant. So we’re talking about what are you going to film you have to think about? How am I filming this? Where am I going to be? What might it look like? So knowing where you’re going to film. So I’m going to go back to the example of me being in Paris, and I have a video that I have on Instagram, it says like how I filmed myself when I was in Paris, you can set up the tripod, put it on the ground. And again, this depends on on how big your tripod is where you’re at, you’re gonna put it down on a surface either on the ground, or on a table or something like that. You’re going to turn it on, the best resolution of the camera is not the selfie mode, it’s the regular mode. But if you can’t manage that do selfie mode, so that way you can see the screen. You prop it up on the tripod and you set it down. And let’s say you want a shot of you like walking into the restaurant, right or maybe you’re walking in. So for me in Paris, I wanted a shot of me walking by the camera on the Sen river. I just it was like a cool shot. It’s just like you see the water next to me a little pedestrian overpass, you could see people kind of walking around it looked Parisian. And I wanted to get the idea that I was in Paris right that I was there. So I was I walked really far away from the tripod. Don’t look at the camera, and you walk consistently past the camera. This is called B roll footage. It’s footage where someone’s it’s not the action is not your sorry, it’s not you talking to the camera, it’s kind of action that shows what’s going on. So let’s say again, you’re going to the restaurant, maybe you set up the tripod where you’re seeing the name of the restaurant above you, and you’re walking through it. So maybe we’re seeing the I’m going to like pick a random restaurant in New York City. White Horse tavern, it’s a bar near I used to live in the West Village in New York City, White Horse tavern, the sign is above you, the tripod is set up across the street, you walk across the doorway, and you’re setting up that you’re going in. Or maybe you’re walking, you’re walking from one side, you’re going into the door, and then you close the door. And the tripod is catching that from across the street. Or maybe it’s set on a table outside. But again, you’re getting the signage to you’re showing somebody where you’re at. So it’s one shot, you know, you’re getting, again, you have to visualize what am I going to do? What am I going to film to tell the story. So if you know you’re going to talk to camera and explain a little bit about what’s happening, you can be setting up that camera where you’re talking to camera. So we just got the shot where you’re walking in, and you’re walking into the restaurant. And then you can be setting up that little tripod at a table or you can bring it inside where you’re filming as long as it’s not loud. Set it up talk to camera, we’re talking about framing it meaning like what is what does it look like? What does the composition look like? You don’t want to be too close you want it to be so that there’s a little bit of space above your head. There’s you know more of your body in the shot. And when you’re really trying to establish where you are you want to film wide enough wide enough shot so that you’re seeing more behind you. A lot of times we see a lot of content on social media, it’s like the same background. We’re talking to camera, you’re in your office, it’s a lot of the same when you’re out and about really make it look different. Like capture that cool stuff. If this restaurant has some really cool fountain. If this restaurant has a really amazing mosaic wall, maybe it has like a cool living wall of plants. Maybe it has a cool smoker Maybe it’s like a barbecue pit with an amazing smoker. really capture that whether you’re in the shot or not. You want to be capturing that content. Okay. And we talked a little bit before I mentioned about prepping your video. Have write it down. Have your overall idea ready, I like to say prepare your script. A script makes it seem like you’ve to write it out like an article, even just three bullet points of what you know you’re going to cover that will help keep you organized, it will keep you moving. It will make sure your video is more interesting. And it will make sure you don’t ramble, I think it’s very important to understand without a structure, a script or bullet points, you’re just gonna ramble because you don’t really know what you’re covering. So it’s always important to go in with the plan. So let’s say you say, Okay, I’m going to walk into the restaurant, I’m going to show the sign in the restaurant, I want to cover the kitchen, I want to film the actual, like dining area. And I want to talk to the camera about what I think is interesting about it. So you have to be thinking about the shots. So you know, you want that exterior shot that says the name of the restaurant, and you’re gonna want to show the actual inside of the restaurant. And but for that shot, you can hold your camera and be turning camera ever so slightly, very slowly to show all the different sides of the restaurant. If you do not have a steady hand, you can always film it study, you can play with a lot of things in edit, don’t worry about it. If you do think you’re going to be doing a lot of like moving walking shots. In terms of materials, you can always get a stabilizer or a gimbal to put on your camera. Totally optional, not mandatory. Again, in terms of preparing it if you’re filming for vertical social media, like tick tock or Instagram, you’re gonna be filming things things vertically. If you’re filming them for YouTube, and vertical, you’re gonna start to film horizontal. And then you can always edit it down to be vertical later, make sure you’re always filming the highest resolution, go check your camera settings, Google, how do I get the highest camera settings possible, make sure for your own camera, you’re filming on the highest possible settings, this will take up more space, but it will make a much better video. Right. And now you know, if you’re doing a restaurant video, you might want to do something where you’re like showing someone around the restaurant. And even if you don’t want to talk to camera, you’re gonna want to voice it over leader. Voice Over it means when you hear someone’s voice over the footage, write that down. When you’re doing a voiceover, you really want to be concise, so write it down. And then you’re going to record that. Lastly, if you don’t have a tripod, you can always use a shelf. So you know, there’s kind of always like a ledge or a shelf or something, sometimes I’ve used like a my purse, I take my purse, I lean it up against something, I’ve used a water bottle, I mean, it’s just anything that you can get a steady place to put your phone can be a tripod, one thing to remember is lighting. So as you’re filming all of these things, you always want to make sure you’re you’re getting good lighting, meaning it’s not too dark, but it’s also not too light. So if you’re in the middle of the day and have a really, really bright light, that’s going to really be harsh, okay, it’s not gonna look that good. So you kind of want to balance light. And you don’t want to be half in shadow and half out of shadows. So you want to be in one spot. Consider the composition when you’re filming. So it’s good. If you’re, if you’re talking, you can kind of be right in the middle of the frame or slightly to the side. That’s nice. And then you want to kind of have things balanced, you know, the rule of threes, like have things in different thirds. Because we’re doing a lot of vertical vertical content, the composition rules have changed a little bit, if you’ve ever heard the rule of thirds is if you’re looking at something and it’s like horizontal, like a sideways painting, they have the rule of threes, where you want something like not always just in the middle, but kind of in the different thirds. Vertically, it’s a little bit different, right, it does change. So it’s just important to remember that and you just want to have your shots a little bit different, not always like the same thing in the middle all the time, you’re gonna vary your shots a little bit. Um, one thing to remember is very, very important. Always film B roll footage B roll footage is footage of what you’re seeing. So in a restaurant, that’s the restaurant booth sets the kitchen, that’s the entrance sign, it’s anytime that you’re not really talking to camera. The reason why that’s important is because you can always add things later. You could make your whole video without you in it, and just film a lot of that same restaurant, and then you can talk over it afterwards. Or you can add text. But without that B roll without that footage. It’s hard for someone to know what is this restaurant? Where is it? What’s it like? What’s cool about it? And again, when you’re filming something, don’t forget to think about what do you think is cool about it as you’re making that video. So you have to tell the story. From your point of view. This is not a Google article about the restaurant. It’s your point of view in the article. And it’s your point of view on the restaurant. And that’s why people are working with you as their agent. They trust you and they trust your opinion. And so Leslie so you’re getting that B roll, you’re thinking about lighting and composition. And in terms of filming on your own. One last thing when you’re filming and you’re out and about give context to where you are so if this restaurant is on the main street, make sure to show the main street if this restaurant is like a restaurant in the middle of nowhere and as beautiful farm or maybe this beautiful sunset this beautiful beach show that sometimes we live in this like small world like you know the phrase seeing the forest seeing the forest for the trees or seeing the trees of the forest but stepping back, stepping back and saying Great. I’m in this little restaurant. Awesome. Step back. Where is this restaurant? Is it by highway? Is it on the main street is it on the beach? So just giving a little more context to where this says, All right, so today we’re talking about how to make content when you’re alone. So I’m going to recap by the right materials. So figure out what you’re filming. And if you’re going to be on the move a lot, or if you’re kind of standing, you’re going to be getting some sort of tripod with a ring light or like a little travel tripod, maybe with a selfie stick, whatever is good for you, you’re going to prepare your video most important, think ahead about what you’re going to talk about what you want to capture, you can always write it later. But you need the ideas of what you’re going to cover and what you’re going to talk about, you really only get one chance to film it. So make sure to cover filming a lot of it film all the interesting things that you might have noticed. And lastly, so the on that note of making sure you know what you’re filming, if you’re going on vacation, same rules apply. Like think about all the things that make your vacation interesting. So you would want to film the ski slope or the pool or or the ocean or your hotel or an amazing meal you had. So you really want that varied content. The one thing is you don’t want a video of just you talking to camera. When you’re in the Bahamas, I want to see the Bahamas right. So really bring people into your life by capturing as much content as possible. You can always add text or voiceover later. Alright, as you can tell if you could probably tell my voice I love teaching people about video. Video can grow your business, it is the most amazing thing and if you don’t know how to make great video to grow your business, you’re never too late. It’s never too late. You’re never too old. You’re never too young. It’s perfect. So reach out to me on my instagram Kim Ripper KMRI TTB erg. I also have really awesome free downloads you can grab from Kim ripper.com/newsletter drop me an Instagram I love hearing from the keeping it real folks, you’re all really cool. And I’ve now worked with so many of you in my video bootcamp classes that I run twice a year. Reach out I hope to hear from you. And if you’re making content when you’re alone, make sure to tag me in that video. Whether you’re making an Instagram story or a full reel. I want to hear what you’re making when you’re alone. Tag me and I will cheer you on. I am a big cheerleader. Alright, thank you so much for joining me. I am Kim Rydberg and I’ll talk to you next time

Louise Phillips Forbes describes her transition from dancer in Broadway to an industry leader in real estate. Louise talks about what is she and her team doing now at a down market. Louise also discusses the importance of building relationships with other realtors. Louise also talks about how her very authentic style/look impacted her business. Next, Louise discusses the importance of participating in associations and giving back to the community. Last, Louise discusses teams in real estate business. Please follow Louise on Instagram here and also her team here. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Louise Phillips Forbes can be reached at 917.846.8640 and lphillips@bhsusa.com. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Today we’re gonna talk to an agent who had no business background before becoming a real estate agent, and his todate closed over 5.5 billion in real estate by embracing her authentic self. You’re gonna want to check this one out. So stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your guide and host to the show and in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with superstar and I really mean superstar Louise Phillips Forbes from New York. And before we get to Louise in really You guys can’t get we can’t get to her fast enough. But before we do, please do me a favor to things leave us a review whatever app you’re listening to us on. Let us know what you think of the show. We really do take those comments to heart and it helps us get in front of more people and also tell a friend I think one other realtor that needs to hear what Louise is about to tell you and trust me you’re gonna want to share it after you hear this but let’s get to the main event. my conversation with Louise Phillips Forbes. Today our guest on the show is a New York City legend Louise Phillips Forbes with a Louise Phillips sports team with Brown Harris Stevens in New York City. Let me tell you more about Louise. For over three decades Louise Phillips Forbes has been an industry leader in New York’s residential real estate market with their career sales exceeding dramatic pause 5.5 billion end up dramatic boss she is considered one of the elite power brokers in Manhattan she really is a true superstar Louise has been named residential agent of the Year by REBNY, which is the Real Estate Board of New York for her consistent achievements and leadership within the industry. She’s a multi time winner of homesteads real estate, which is now brown hair Stevens esteemed broker of the Year award. Louise has also been acknowledged many times as the number one listing broker company wide and currently lists one of the firm’s top sales sorry currently leads one of the top firms top sales teams, she has developed a significant following among developers buyers and sellers throughout Manhattan from the Upper West Side and upper east side to the West Village Tribeca Wall Street really everywhere Manhattan and and the boroughs are Louise probably serves prominent New Yorkers, please follow her on Instagram, which is Louise Phillips Forbes team. I will have a link to that in the show notes and also visit our website which is Louise Phillips forbes.com. And we will also have a link to that as well. Louise, so happy to have you. Thank Louise Phillips Forbes 4:06you. I’m just gonna add to that lovely intro. That there’s also Weezy underscores says and that’s W E z e underscore F E z if you really want to get a little essence of Weezy D.J. Paris 4:23should I call you Weezy as opposed to one Louise Phillips Forbes 4:25I met my husband on a blind date and I was like oh, all my friends call me my husband’s very elegant and he certainly elevates me. And I was like oh my friends call me Wheezy and he was like turning the menu going. I will never call you with a D.J. Paris 4:42fan of the Jeffersons or Louise Phillips Forbes 4:44I don’t know but you know I’m from Nashville, Tennessee, and that’s just what everybody called me growing up. So I D.J. Paris 4:51love that you still have a little tiny bit of that Nashville accent which I just think is one of the best accents in our country. I love that Nashville accent Well, Louise Phillips Forbes 5:01you know, when I when I’m negotiating particularly, it’s something that I don’t intentionally do it. But when I’m a little nervous, I go home, you know, we go home, my home and my accent and so, yes, wait till I spend about 10 days in Nashville. And then I’m like, y’all, it’s waiting for y’all do it. D.J. Paris 5:23Oh, I love Nashville. So my everybody loves Nashville. It’s pretty much a universally beloved city. It’s like Charleston is kind of that way, Austin, there’s a few cities that you’d never you’d be hard pressed to find somebody that goes, Oh, Nashville, yuck. Like everybody loves it. But anyway, let’s get to to your origin story. Like our audience always loves to hear I know you’ve been been in this business for 30 plus years. But why did you get started? And how’d you get started in real estate? Louise Phillips Forbes 5:53Well, I always say that I kind of fell off the boat from Nashville to New York City, I came here, really seeking the Broadway lights, I was a dancer. And, you know, I still I miss it. I did some off Broadway things. But you know, really, with everybody who is in real estate, we all have multiple chapters in our life, I would say the new generation is being educated to be in real estate. But my journey was through the back door, which was through through coming here and ended up in New York. And literally, I was bartending and somebody was like, you’d be so great in real estate. And I went, I took the card, I met her friend, and he was like, You got a job. And I called my brother, I was like, I got a job, I got a job. And he’s like, you know, that’s commission only. Oh, no. And for all the new brokers out there, I just want to say keep coming back, because I literally made $8,400, my first year. And I lived on 30 bucks a week, I came to New York with a ton of bucks in my pocket. And, you know, almost $6 billion later, you know, I have I am. So in the right place, I have a degree in special education and elementary education. And I had a scholarship to dance and dance to dance companies, and how real estate, build all those holes, I have no idea. But it’s not the business of brick and mortar. It’s really the business of people. And that is what blows my skirt out. You know? D.J. Paris 7:39You know, that is, by the way, just the blows my skirt up expression is adorable. I love I love that. I love that. But But you’re right. And it is it is a relationship, of course business. It’s an interpersonal business, and you know, brick and mortar. Even real estate offices aren’t that packed anymore, unless there’s teams that are working in need to sort of have that space. So many people are, you know, moving away from from the brick and mortar offices, although I still there’s obviously still tremendous value in that. But I would love to learn a little bit about, you know, you’ve been here, you’ve been around 34 years, I want to dive into sort of just a more challenging topic, because of where we currently are. And it’s something that everybody’s probably experiencing some version of, which is it’s a down market, it just is we it’s where we are. And the interest rates are up, of course, inventory is down again, I know Manhattan is kind of its own echo system there that maybe sometimes a little bit outside of what the rest of the country is, is experiencing. But, you know, I would always love to hear from huge producers like you and your team. How are you keeping everyone motivated work moving forward? What is your team focused on right now? Because of course, you’re still working? Louise Phillips Forbes 8:58Right? Of course. I mean, listen, I I didn’t have a Rolodex for all the young listeners, that was a thing that we held all of our contacts in. Now we have our phones, but but I had no context. All my friends were like starving artist. And, um, and you know, I would just say that I was not comfortable with the Commission model because that meant that I needed to, I had to find I had to be worthy. I needed to earn my keep. And and something clicked in me which is a philosophy in down markets and up markets. It doesn’t matter. That I realized that if I looked at myself, not as a salesperson, but an educator. I felt much more comfortable and if I operate it from being of service at all times, what goes around comes around. So these are those markets that operating by Mike by being of service to my competitor, and sharing my knowledge and collaborating and doing more than I need to do comes back 18 fold. So, that is one of the greatest wisdoms that I’ve learned through trial and error, honestly. And there’ll be people that will, you give them an inch, and they take a mile. And then when you really need them, they’re not there. But for the most part, for the most part, it is, it is appreciated. And honestly, it’s what buyers and sellers come and go, but we have each other for decades, and the richness that that gives you in wise wisdom and experience, and I love it when I’m going to lose a piece of business. Hopefully, I’m losing to somebody I respect. D.J. Paris 10:58Yeah. And and, you know, there’s enough business to sort of go around, right, and you don’t win every deal. Of course, as you have been in this business long time you win a lot of them, obviously. But it is it is always I always say it’s always a good idea to play nice in the sandbox, especially because it is at least for now. It’s called a cooperative commission. We’re supposed to be cooperative. Yes. Yeah. How important? How important is the relationships you’ve built with other realtors over your career? Louise Phillips Forbes 11:25Massive, massive? I mean, every time I do you know, so you’re talking about like, you’re asking me, it’s a difficult market. So what’s my advice? What are we doing? You know, we are out there every day. I, I am very data driven. I always say I’m not the smartest pencil in the in the bucket. But But I but I get so much accolades for effort, energy consistency, I never I never give up. And and I think these are the markets where your knowledge and data like who can figure out what anything is worth since COVID. Right? Because it’s so there’s no cycle, right? And so I, every time I get a pitch, which we probably average five to seven a week, if not more. I talked to 50. I’m not saying for 50. Brokers just for that analysis, what’s happening? Do you have any offers heavy, you know, when you drop the price, did it make a difference, then I’m not only giving my owners a bunch of numbers, I’m telling the story to the texture, the broker wanted to list this at $2 million, but the owner asked to put it on for three weeks at two and a half. Well, eight weeks later, they just dropped it to 199. And the market is different today. So So that’s telling the story. So I don’t have to pressure anybody, we’re partnering together. It’s like, Hey, I can’t make up the market. So that kind of collaboration is how I approach everything, whether it’s a buyer, a broker, I’m interviewing to an agent to come and work on our team, like, Who are you, and you demonstrate that by the data points that you share them? D.J. Paris 13:19Yeah, so it’s important to know the market and to study the market on a daily basis, which I suspect, most agents probably could upgrade their amount of time they spend learning, learning the market and on a daily basis. And in addition to the prospecting and working with their existing clients, and all of the things you need to do to keep the business running is this idea of and collaboration, learning from other agents is so important. And I wanted to go back to something you had said about educating because you are an educator, that was your, that was your training. That and and in in special needs, which of course is requires an even really a more sophisticated skill set to be able to address the needs of of people with developmental disabilities and those types of challenges. And it probably I would assume your level of patience that you have, in communicating with with clients and really educating them is probably served you extraordinarily well. Because again, as Realtors we oftentimes can forget how challenging, you know, emotionally a purchase or sale can be for the client, it’s easy for us to sort of say oh, it’s all going to work out, but it may not feel that way to the client in real time. Louise Phillips Forbes 14:32salutely Absolutely. And I would also say that I learned a long time ago for myself, because I used to be on the same roller coaster as is them when we didn’t get the deals. I was so disappointed. I also felt it was somehow another my fault. And and you know what I have come to look at everything and this is part of me having an executive coach and me learning so that you know, like, sometimes your skill is not necessarily the most important thing, if your will is there. And, and it’s also how you perceive it like, listen, have faith in the process, that was not the right house for us. And we have to, we have to say, what can we have learned from that? What would I have done differently? Should we have given that extra 20 grand that we really wanted to wait? Maybe we could have gotten their attention. But But I also don’t dwell on it. Because usually, we learn a lot about ourselves. And most of all, they learn about themselves in their partnerships, their relationships have of who’s going to really make the final decisions, and when do you let go of the numbers and you focus on the heart of it. Because that, to me, is why I really am so fulfilled, because what I do is not a transaction. It’s it’s, you know, it’s purposeful, it’s it’s making, it’s, you know, I built the rest of my life around my home. To be a part of that is such a privilege. Yeah, D.J. Paris 16:10it really is, there’s, I think we couldn’t ever over focus on the interpersonal importance of, you know, being in this business, you’re legitimately, you know, working with somebody who maybe it’s their largest financial purchase of their life, or certainly one of the larger financial purchases in really, probably anyone’s life. But it’s more than that. It’s that emotional connection we all have to our to our abode to our residents, we we feel a certain way about it, it’s important, it defines us in a lot of ways. And you I also want to talk about aesthetics, just just briefly, because I think we never talked about this on the show. And of course, aesthetics are just one little minor portion of anyone’s business. But I love the fact that you have a look, you have a style very much unto you, that is very much you. And it’s very cool. And you are a creative person, you are a dancer, you know, so you have this really cool way of expressing yourself physically. So I would just love to hear a little bit about how you’re able to do that in real estate. I love that. I Louise Phillips Forbes 17:15love that. Well, you know, talking about my look, I always when I teach real estate classes or whatever I’m working on in collaboration with with some of the real estate board or our courses for continuing education. I literally tell the story about when I showed up. My first day in real estate. Okay, just everybody close your eyes, I usually say Okay, good buddy. 400 kids in the audience, and I’m like, close your eyes. All right. Imagine a unity car with a prairie skirt, green cowboy boots with a hole in my left one. And shoulder pads. I just I just want you to have the visual. And honestly, I had never been in an office. I was a dancer. I have a degree in special education. I didn’t. I didn’t even I did Tony Roberts, creative visual Robins. I listened. I listened to his I learned how to creatively visualize who I wanted to be. Yeah, I was in my 20s. And I’m just wasn’t, I was pretty cash. I mean, as you see, I haven’t changed that much. But I do have a look. Because, you know, I remember when my sister I’d go home and my sister was a school teacher, and she married her college sweetheart. And she’s amazing, but we’re like, getting in gang. And, and she would like Let’s go shopping. And I would end up with all these outfits that my sister would wear. And I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? So I would say just embrace who you are today and who you become every day. You know? Because I don’t know. I mean, I’m a lot for a lot of people. So I mean, yes, sometimes I’ve left and the wives would say like, you know, I’m gonna go next time, my husband, you’re you’re really high energy for my husband. D.J. Paris 19:17But I think I think what comes across for you in your sort of your energy in your presence is two things that come to mind. For me authenticity is absolutely first and foremost, I believe you. And I believe that you are the person you’re portraying, which is really a skill in and of itself, because a lot of us have fear around being, you know, uniquely ourselves and maybe how that may be perceived. And also so there’s that authenticity, authentic part, but also I think there’s this sort of passion that sort of also radiates from you that is very clear that you are doing what you want to do. in your business, it is there doesn’t seem to be hesitation or you I mean, you’ve been doing for 34 years. But it is like you are you are, it seems you are as into it today, as I suspect if I would have interviewed you 33 years ago, I bet it would be about the same level of passion and excitement. Louise Phillips Forbes 20:16Yes, other than I would be a little more timid, because I will never forget the first coop deal that I did with the attorney who I’m still working with today. And she it was a $63,000 walk up, apartment. Yes, they did exist at that point. And she’s like, so how’s the board package coming in? I’m like, what? She’s like, well, this is a call off. And I’m like, wait a minute, what does that mean? So I just want you to know that it’s okay to not know everything. I mean, you might want to know a little more than that. But, but, you know, I learned a long time ago, I’m terribly dyslexic, and I only make dyslexic children. And, you know, owning those imperfections in ourselves, actually, for me, turned out to be my secret weapon. My spatial memory is like rain, man. So I think that sometimes, I have heard kids say to my own kids, wow, I would never tell anybody. I’m dyslexic. And my son is like nine years old at the time was like, just means I learned differently. It’s no big deal. But that vulnerability is inviting. Yes. It’s like, I’m going to trust you with a little bit about me. Yes. D.J. Paris 21:32And I’m trusting you with information that you can use to harm me, meaning you can reject me, you can make fun of me, you could and most people won’t do that. So it’s this fear we have of like, If I reveal this about me, maybe I’ll get punished for it. However, most people aren’t like that. Yes, once in a while somebody will, you know, especially kids in a playground, maybe in grade school, they’ll make fun of, but, but adults aren’t really so much that way. And I think I think the courage to be vulnerable, is is both one of the hardest things to do. It’s also one of the most rewarding because what you find what I found in my life is that people don’t run away generally. And Louise Phillips Forbes 22:12I think, you know, listen, I have had, you know, my, I’m not sure my passion came came from being just so incredibly grateful. I mean, I lost my mom when I was 23. And my brother died in my arms when I was 30. I had a boyfriend who passed away when I was 38. And my dad passed away 10 days after I met my husband on a blind date. And, and I literally think that my mother sent me my angel and brought me from, you know, took hers back. But but when you go through those kinds of obstacles in your life, you just can’t sweat the small shit. And believe me, I still do a maybe you can believe that. Sorry. That’s okay. But I still do but that but but but when you have loss, and when when you have the privilege to be focused around people’s homes, because what is home thing for you, it’s family. I left my family, right, I lost a lot of my family. And so my clients, I have seven, eight, God children, you know, they can’t I mean, I met my husband on blind date from a client. So I created a new family that happened to be part of what I do in business. D.J. Paris 23:29I am so I am so touched by that. And you know, you did just list a lot of challenges that you have gone through, because of course, you’re human and people leave us they you know, it’s just part of the deal. Louise Phillips Forbes 23:45I was gonna say it also armed me to deal with this dates, and loss, and family. And when I have I hear from my clients that they have an autistic child, well, I am the first person to connect the dots. Let me let you talk to my friend who has three boys and her son is three and he’s autistic. And she’s got so it’s like, sometimes it’s too much for people. But again, I just want to be of service whether or not exactly D.J. Paris 24:14and you know, also going through tremendous heartache and pain builds resiliency, and that allows you to realize, wow, I can get through difficult times I can I can survive them. And I can emerge a stronger person because now I know how to handle some of the really, really tough, you know, valleys of life as they say. I would you know, you are very immersed in in giving back specifically, I know that you do a lot with the local association, and maybe even statewide and national but certainly I know you have contributed a lot Can we just tell all of our audience because I I do a lot of volunteering at the at the local level. Here with our association. We tell everybody they should Get involved with their local association. Yes, Louise Phillips Forbes 25:02yes. And, you know, it is through giving. I mean, a sounds like, I feel like I’m a minister for a minute, but in through giving, we receive so much. And, you know, I think that, that I’m always an all when somebody who always is like, well, you’re so busy, it’s like, but if I’m too busy to make a difference than I am missing my purpose. So I will say that, again, if I am too busy, to try to make a difference to pause to be present for somebody’s need, then I am missing my purpose. And that’s really, if you live like that, that that, you know, it does pull you thin, because I don’t have probably enough boundaries. But I, I think that’s the way to live, if I go to bed, and I still haven’t done enough, and maybe I’m gonna wake up tomorrow, again, with the purpose to do more. D.J. Paris 26:06You’re right, and I feel the same way. So I’m probably stretched too thin myself, however, I can always pull back on certain obligations. But what I have gained by getting involved with our local association here is I’ve gained a social life, way more than I had before. I have all sorts of events to go to. But more importantly, I have all of these like minded other real estate professionals, who are committed to helping and being of service. And boy, is that a great energy to be around. And whether it be up totally Louise Phillips Forbes 26:38whether you’re doing you know, I mean, we are in every kind of nonprofit world, the people in our world of real estate, because they’re, you know, they’re not just a handful of us, they’re millions of us. But you know, nothing is better than when you’re doing dealing with something that’s for Housing Works, or for ALS. I mean, I have I’ve been to a number of the my, my dear friend was honored and also client honored for the American Society for cancer for breast cancer, and she was a survivor of breast cancer. And that’s just been the last three weeks. But it is really like, if we can find what fills our soul. And it’s not about ourselves. It’s also where you know, your, your sphere of influence becomes where you can be a part of the fabric of a community. D.J. Paris 27:36Yes, and you know, I always say to, you know, life has so many challenges, and so much pain is going to come into all of our lives. It’s just part of the human experience. So if you can build in sort of guaranteed wins throughout your life, they help sort of offset some of the challenging times. And being of service for me has been one of those things that it just feels too good to give up. It’s almost I almost feel a bit selfish when I do it, because I’m really sort of doing it for me, because I want to I want to feel good, but I’m also hopefully doing some good out there in the in the community. But, but I do it for me. Sort of Yeah, for sure. Because I know I’m going to feel proud of myself this Louise Phillips Forbes 28:19this morning. And literally I just said to my my husband because my kids one my son is in college and the other one is in boarding school and I was like for Thanksgiving, why don’t we go to the Bowery and let’s serve. And then let’s go look at the parade. Like you know, like, and, and I, I listened to a guy who was a doorman, who goes every Wednesday, every week to serve breakfast a meal at the Bowery. And he’s like, my whole week is like set. You know what I mean? Like it sets appreciation, gratitude, that you know, being thankful. And he said he just gets to work as a doorman and he’s like, there’s nothing that’s gonna shake me because life is great. I have my health and I have a roof and so you know, I’m not everybody’s journey to finding what what blows his skirt up is going to be different but but but make the time to do it because it’s it’s really in giving. You know, my mom used to say you have to give it away to keep it and I would be like, but wait Ma, if you give it away, you don’t have it. Right. So you know that one by one. D.J. Paris 29:37And what you said earlier, it once you give it away it comes back and you said 18 fold, which again, I’m sure it’s just a number that you’re using. But it’s but it’s it’s it’s not so much whether that’s accurate or not, but it’s accurate enough to be able to say it comes back in multiples and that is something that I have found absolutely true. There’s almost a little magical element to it that I can’t quite put my finger on why it comes back? You know, but it does, it seems. Yeah. Louise Phillips Forbes 30:04Yeah. And if it doesn’t, it’s that that’s like that that story, pay it forward, it doesn’t doesn’t matter if it’s not that person. It’s the seed that’s planted. You know. Um, so that’s the way I feel about sharing about my dyslexia, about having lost, it’s like, I might make somebody uncomfortable, but I might make somebody go, Oh, I’m not alone. Yes, you know, um, I wanted to say also that kind of, in bringing back to what we do, and when you have this philosophy of being of service, and, and being generous with your knowledge, you know, hey, you know, having people that I probably just said this last night, I was talking to somebody about meeting them for coffee, because they’re, they want to do something different. And I was an asset, I think that I probably brought, like, 80 people into real estate by this point, you know, where people are like, Well, I was a sales manager, I was an architect, I was an investment banker, I could do this, you know, or I was an actress or whatever. And, and I will say that the time that I had that cup of coffee, I promise you, when you get you see, you know, when you see somebody who’s going to be great at real estate. And, and when you get that time, and you give that time, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on the other side of the negotiating table. And they’re five bids, and they’re like, Wait, please, listen, here’s the deal, you need to come up, I would love to see if I can’t tell you what the other bids are. But you know, you really get you extended yourself to me. So I want to make sure I do my best for you. Because I know they’re your personal friends. Right? That’s, that’s all about relationship. D.J. Paris 31:58I mean, what that is worth is almost it’s almost not countable. Because it’s so it’s, it’s worth so much to build those relationships, and then those relationships will possibly help. And that is I wasn’t expecting Louise Phillips Forbes 32:11that just to be clear. But again, it’s just a seed that was planted. And I’m saying that for people, when you know, even when I know, I can’t make an appointment, like, I know, I can’t do it, because my owner is definitely not gonna let me in. I sometimes pick up the phone, and I will say, I’ve just done my best I cannot even negotiate this. But let me tell you what I can do for you. Because and brokers are like always, like, you didn’t need to call me for that lease. But to me, doesn’t that make you feel important? Yes. Because I do care. And sometimes I can’t do anything about it. And that seven tene second phone call is like 27 chips. Again, not why I did it. But but that’s how I know how I feel when somebody makes that effort. D.J. Paris 33:05Yeah, it’s it’s important to be heard, to feel heard, to allow others to be to be feel heard as well. And that is something that that is so so critical. I want to switch gears to talk just a little bit about teams because you run an incredibly successful team. And right now we have seen over the last, well, gosh, you’ve you’ve been at this much longer than I but certainly a flight to teams or a trend towards team building. In the last I would say five years or so certainly in the last Louise Phillips Forbes 33:37I would say 15 years. But yes, there are some I mean, in New York, we have some teams that have, you know, 1230 I mean, you know, the sort of I mean, Serhan has his own business now. You know, so listen, I I built my team, not purposely because honestly, I don’t think of myself as a business person. However I am, which I’ve come to learn. But it really came out of being of service and I can’t be everywhere and I don’t like it when somebody says you know, she’s my boss. I mean, I can’t stand that it’s like minute and a we are a machine and I’m a spoke and you’re a spoke, and we all need each other. But I think that the most important thing and I said it earlier you know, I spent many many years not wanting brokers or agents who were in the business to come on my team. Number one, I’m dyslexic, I have to do things a certain way. I rarely write my emails because I will be here for 973 minutes just to get three paragraphs. Um, and I say that jokingly but it’s kind of an accurate. And, and so I need a lot of support. And and I don’t want very established agents habits. Because the philosophy of being of service, the philosophy of going above and beyond the philosophy of, you know, well, can I just send it like this? And we’ll just add that other stuff later? No, we have to provide excellence and value every turn, because that is demonstrating why they should choose to operate with us. It shouldn’t even be a question, if we so so. So that’s sort of one thing, I would say. And I think there’s a natural mentoring, although people tell me I’m very intimidating, which I find very funny, because if you really knew me, it’s like, I’m just a little kid. But I guess I guess it’s really I built my team, purposefully today around the support that I need, but also looking for the right chemistry, because we all have to have the same philosophy. I’ve always, you know, I don’t like to have one person work on this and one person work on that. I don’t even want to have the energy to try to figure out who should be what I do match personalities. I don’t match the financial or the specialty. I match personalities, because I do know, my clients. D.J. Paris 36:39You use a personality test to do that as well, correct? Louise Phillips Forbes 36:43I do. I mean, my husband is wicked smart. And people are always like, you know, you and your husband worked as like, oh my god, we he would just, I would drive him crazy. Because he is I always describe us as like, I’m the kite and he’s my streak. So, so, but he is very smart. And he is a tech entrepreneur, and has built and sold a number of companies. And at some point, you know, he started trying to figure out how to hire the right people in his own businesses. And, you know, he, he, for the heck of it, he gave me this personality index. And it was created by the guy that was selecting the bomb, the person who dropped the bomb, so it’s a pilot, and the copilot. And so that’s how it was created in the 40s. But it’s morphed into this tool of determining personalities and what people are good for? Well, you know, it’s a, b, c, d, personality traits. Well, I am so off of what’s important on relationships, that’s the B, it doesn’t even mark and not only that, my husband jokes, he’s like, You care more about the relationships that that are not nice and don’t like you, and you want to figure out why than the ones that are just right in front of you sometimes. You know, I just want to try to figure out what makes those people tick. Sure. Um, and so what I did come to realize that I had at one point in marketing guy who was also a real estate broker who came back came in from the advertising world. And he was desperately trying to be a broker. And he presented well, and he was amazing. But when he did the personality index, he was literally turning himself inside out. He was not at all being who his natural self was. And so, you know, I know. I mean, now I have enough of the right people in the right seats, that we literally can finish each other sentences. And, and by the way, when I piss somebody off, which I do, because I’m a lot, you know, the intent is, you know, my intent. It’s not that it’s just not having time. And so the trust that’s built with those moments, and lots of them, you have built your own dynamic of a family. I also, I want to say one more thing about compensation because I remember watching older agents have assistants, and they kind of barked at, like, get me copy and make copies and that’s a typo. do that over again. It’s like it was not collaborative. And I really wanted to have something that was people I couldn’t hit, I can’t be everywhere. So I didn’t want many knees. I just wanted people that complimented my many weaknesses, but also that diversity of who’s going to be attracted to who I As we work together, and and that that is was a really good. I don’t know if it was intentional, but it just sort of happened where, where I felt I feel I filled the seats with people that complimented my weaknesses, or, you know? Yeah, I would say that. And so they don’t think like me, they, they complement our strategy. D.J. Paris 40:30I love that. And we should also mention, too, that if you are a realtor in the Manhattan market, and maybe you are thinking of a switch, or maybe you just want to see what other opportunities are out there to see if there is better chemistry. Maybe you’re not currently on a team and you think that could you could provide some value to the team and maybe get some value as well. Or maybe you’re somebody that’s currently on a team and it’s just maybe not the right fit. Of course, not all teams are. And so if you think that you would like to partner with Louise and her team, obviously she does not take everyone in fact, she doesn’t take hardly anyone because she wants to find the right fit. But when she does find that she she embraces them and brings them on, she has a very successful team nearly 6 billion in sales. So Louise, if any of our listeners who are realtors in your area, are interested in thinking that maybe they would be a good asset to you, what’s the best way they should reach out? You Louise Phillips Forbes 41:28can do you can DM me on Wheezy underscore says or you can go to the website. I don’t know if if if you’ve got a chat log in your in your podcast. But no, I mean, I think those are two great spots. D.J. Paris 41:44Yeah. And and also realize too, that, you know, when you’re reaching out to top producers, like like Weezy, she’s, she’s busy, she’s a very busy person. So so be be patient. A lot of people listen to our show, and a lot of people will probably be messaging her. So please be patient there. And also think about I always think if you’re going to approach a top producer, think about what you can, what problems you can help solve for them. And if you can think about what, what you can bring to the table, as opposed to just what you might get, you’ll probably get a lot further. And Louise and her team obviously are exceptional. They’re really they’re legends in the New York market. So it is a very, very big deal. And please do reach out to her if you think you could be a good fit for her. And then her and her team will we’ll take a look. But also I want everybody to follow Louise, check out her website, which is which is sorry, it is Louise Louise Phillips Forbes 42:41forbes.com.com. And D.J. Paris 42:44then Louise Phillips Forbes team is where you find her on Instagram. We will also have a link to your Wheezy one as well. We will have a link to all your social profiles, but also just wanted to ask one final question. What was the biggest mistake that you think you’ve made in your into 30? Or a mistake that you sort of wish that you could go back and correct? Because I always like to humanize our guests a little bit too. So can you think of something that you wish you would have done different in your career? Louise Phillips Forbes 43:14Hmm, wow, there are so many things. What would I have done differently? I mean, I you know, I don’t I don’t think there’s I am grateful that I don’t live in regret, right? Because even if I’ve made mistakes, which there are pretty much every day, the ability to clean up your mistakes and own your part in it, I think is really valuable. So you don’t live in the negative. I’m trying to think of an example that that that just stands out. I mean, I’ve I’ve D.J. Paris 43:58here’s what I love. Here’s me by the way, just Well, here’s what I love about why, why you’re stopped. I love this because you don’t live in regret, you keep your side of the street clean. When you make mistakes as you say you do every day, you own them, you acknowledge them, you make amends if you need to, and you move on and you don’t hold on to it. So the fact that you’re not holding on to it doesn’t mean you you don’t didn’t make mistakes you admitted as much. But that you know, you don’t you don’t have a list of these horrible atrocities that have been committed, which probably weren’t horrible anyway, but the idea of letting go and moving forward is really Louise Phillips Forbes 44:35I will say one thing about and I can think of one of the most difficult times in my I almost got out of real estate. So I had a team, a couple of team members that worked with me, and you know, I had a contract but I am not a business minded individual. And, you know, I just it just, I operate with such trust and You know, people I used to I remember, I had somebody who sat next to me and when I was young, younger in the late 90s, early 2000s, and she was locking up her desk with all of her files. And I thought to myself, like, how odd is that? And so I never felt like, you can’t take AI relationships. Right. But in fact, you know, I had a team members that worked for me for a decade, and just shy of a decade, and we had had such an intricate fiber of how we operated. That, you know, I knew exactly where I was, you know, if I’m, I’m selling an apartment to somebody that my kids go to preschool with. And I’m kind of clear where that that relationship came from. But I had a couple of agents that left and went to another firm, and they left very strategically on time at, you know, planning, probably three to four months in advance and targeted my business for five years still today. And I was so devastated emotionally, that I just didn’t understand that betrayal, that it took me three years to thaw out. Trust, unconditionally, however, I got my ducks in a row. So. So if you’re building a team, even if it’s your best friend, have a good contract, don’t be short sighted. And also, if you’re going to have employees, like operations, drivers, marketing people, have a third person, contractor, third party contractor, hire them, have them on a payroll, pay 20, whatever percent more for their salary, protect yourself, because I have had, I’ve had people fall and be disabled. And you know, or go on disability, and I would never have known how to manage that. So it’s a big thing that people who build teams are not addressing, and it’s going to bite them in the rear end. D.J. Paris 47:11100% agree. So if you are joining a team, make sure that that team seems to have their HR in order and some sort of operations in order so that you can Louise Phillips Forbes 47:22clear yes, contract terms, everything. Because you’re in the business and you you need to take care of yourself. Sorry about my phone. D.J. Paris 47:32No, it’s no, it’s perfect timing, because I gotta get a good call as well. So this is perfect time for us to wrap up, you’ve provided so much value to our audience. So on behalf of everyone listening, we thank you, Louise for your time today. You are a superstar, obviously in the New York market. And we are so honored to get some of your time today because we know how valuable that is for somebody as busy as yourself. So on behalf of the audience, thank you. And on behalf of Louisa and I we want to thank the audience as well for sticking around to the very end, please tell a friend about this episode. Please leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. But the best thing to do for sure is just keep spreading the word. Let other agents know that this podcast exists. And we have grown to we just crossed over 3.2 million downloads. Thanks to you guys. Not things. Not thanks to me. So we apply it. Thank you on behalf of our entire crew here. And Luis thank you again. We will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks a lot. I’ll Louise Phillips Forbes 48:27see you in New York soon. D.J. Paris 48:29I will be there and I will we’ll go to Katz’s or something we’ll have fun. I love it. Alright, see you later. Bye bye

Malte Kramer the CEO of Luxury Presence talks about his journey and how he ended up in real estate. Malte dispels a few myths around website creation and talks about SEO and how to bring traffic to your website organically. Malte shares a few recommendations on nurturing leads. Malte also discusses AI and its impact on the real estate business. Last, Malte shares his short-term predictions on real estate market. Check out Malte’s profile on LinkedIn and follow him on Instagram. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Malte Kramer can be reached at (310) 955-1077. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Are you thinking of upgrading your personal realtor website? Well, today we’re have a conversation with one of the top website designers in the industry, and he’s going to tell you exactly what you should think about if you decide to upgrade. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your guide and host through the show and in just a moment we’re going to be speaking with multi Kramer, who is the CEO and founder of luxury presence. They make realtor websites. So it’s gonna be a really interesting one because we’re going to talk all about what a realtor website should have and shouldn’t have and maybe what you should consider for your own site. Before we get to Malte please tell a friend about the show. That’s the best way you can help us think of another realtor that could benefit from this great conversation we’re about to have or any of the other conversations we have in previous episodes, send a link over to another realtor that would really help us and also please leave us a review especially if you’re listening on iTunes or really anywhere that you’re finding our podcast. Let us know what you think of the show we appreciate it and are so grateful for everyone listening right this very second it’s been five or six years we’ve done 500 episodes over 3 million downloads all because of you guys really it’s all because of you so I’m so grateful. This is we’re getting towards the end of 2023 and I just wanted to say thanks in case I forget to do it in a future episode. So thank you thank you thank you keep listening. We’ll keep making episodes and enough from me let’s get to the main event my conversation with multi Kramer. Okay today our guest on the show is multi Kramer and I want to tell you more about multi. Multi Kramer is the CEO of luxury presents, which is the leading real estate marketing platform and one of the fastest growing propped up companies in the United States since founding the business in 2016. He’s grown it to over 100 million in revenue with a global team of 600 employees and a client list of nearly 10,000 real estate professionals. To date luxury presents has raised 50 million from notable investors, including top VC firm of Bessemer Venture Partners, Zillow co founder Spencer Rascoff, real estate Coach Tom Ferry, NBA champion, Dirk Nowitzki, and NFL Pro Larry Fitzgerald. Now originally from Germany, Malte moved to the United States on a basketball scholarship to Pepperdine University, and after graduating as valedictorian he began his entrepreneurial journey by launching a fundraising app called giver and went on to receive an MBA from Stanford. Multi was named a Housing Wire rising star in 2021, rising Entrepreneur of the Year in 2022 by.la, and Housing Wire tech trendsetter in 2023. He’s a dedicated rescue dog dad, the author of play for something which is a North Star for student athletes and a finisher of a half Ironman multi Welcome to the show. Malte Kramer 4:32Thank you so much for having me DJ. I D.J. Paris 4:35forgot to give you the most important thing a plug. Everybody go visit multi and his website which is luxury presents.com. We’ll have a link to that in the show notes and I’d like you to follow a luxury presents on LinkedIn as well as Instagram. Just search for luxury presents and subscribe again LinkedIn and Instagram. We will have links to that as well in the show notes notes, I am very excited to chat with you. Because before we get into what your company offers, I, I very rarely have I been impressed with real estate agent websites. And I know you do more than that, but specifically that I think you guys probably do it better than just about anyone. So I’m excited to get to that. And I’ve also noticed over the years being on this show, we have we interview top 1% agents and more than any other website design firm, the luxury President shows up over and over and over again. So I figured it’s probably time to talk to the to the man who made it all happen. And I’m curious to sort of get your thoughts on why your brand has attracted so much top talent in the real estate game. And I know that you aren’t just for top tier brokers you can handle and I’m sorry, in Illinois, we call everyone a broker. So Realtors off site, but you work with individual Realtors of any of any production level. But um, let’s let’s first start with you. So tell us you know, we understand your your guy from Germany, you came over, did your undergrad by the way undergrad in Malibu, right? Is that where Pepperdine is? It? That’s right. Yeah, that’s a tough, that is a tough place to be. It’s like it’s almost right on the beach, even if I remember correctly. Very Malte Kramer 6:24little studying gets done out there. Grade school under. Yeah. D.J. Paris 6:28And then and then off to Stanford. So tell us a little bit about your journey. You know why? Why real estate because it doesn’t appear that that was really in your background? Malte Kramer 6:39Yeah, you’re right. I I fell into real estate. I was an entrepreneur out of undergrad. So I had two previous companies in different industries. One was a nonprofit fundraising app. And in 2015, a real estate agent out here in Beverly Hills, who was a friend asked me to do some consulting work for her. And I was very curious about the industry. And she was she still is one of the most successful agents in the world. Her name is Jade Mills, she sold over 7 billion in her Korea sales. Some of the most expensive homes has sold the Playboy Mansion and Chartwell estate and all of these very famous, you know, 100 plus million dollar homes. And naturally, I wanted to see what does the inside of her business look like? How does she market herself. And so I spent several months working with her and I told her, I will do all of this work, set up your digital marketing, which was my background, if you let me be a fly on the wall, I want to come to listing appointments, I want to see how you run your team. And so that’s how I got started and how I fell in love with the industry. And it for me, it’s always been about helping other people scale. It’s something that I really enjoy. I’ve been an entrepreneur all my life, it’s what has opened doors for me and us, I grew up in Germany. So I’ve been able to build my life and my business here and find my fiancee here. And all of it goes back to the ability to start a business. And so it’s something that I’m passionate about. And I’ve just found real estate agents, ultimately, they are all intrapreneurs at heart. And I love the idea of being part of their their growth and helping them scale. How D.J. Paris 8:15did you start to put together an offering that would be unique from other other tech firms that are offering website development solutions for realtors? And what was what was what was the hole that you saw in the industry that you thought you could fill? Yeah, Malte Kramer 8:35we wanted to bring together the performance side and the the design side and the especially in the luxury market of the very high and aesthetic that agents were looking for. Most of the agents I talked to, they said one of two things, they either said, I have a website, and it looks great, but I’m not getting any leads. And I’m not really using it for any advertising. Or they said I have a website. It’s a lead gen site, I am getting some leads from it. But I’m embarrassed to put it on my business card, I’m embarrassed to put it on my flyers. And it never made sense to me why you had to pick one or the other. And so our goal in the very beginning was to come out with a website product that worked for the very high end agents like Jade Mills, who cared about aesthetics, but also had were built on a platform and had the tools and had the services to provide the performance marketing the lead gen that agents were looking for, and that they really needed to grow. So that was the that was the starting point. And then since then we’ve obviously built a lot more and it is a full end to end marketing platform now. D.J. Paris 9:38Yeah, let’s let’s talk about I want to start first to dispel a few myths around website creation and then we can get into some of the the other other ancillary stuff that you do that is not just a front end website design, but there’s a lot of misconception even still with why someone should have why Realtors should have their own website isn’t just a online business card, should it have a home search feature with IDX data feed, so that they, you know, visitors can can search for properties. There’s a lot of debate on this topic. And I’m curious of how and you talked about this is we want something that looks beautiful, but also performs. You know, let’s, I would love to talk about all of this conversion. What’s the intention? As you guys think about websites? Is it more Look at how pretty I am? And is it also I want to push you through some sort of funnel so that you know you’re being marketed to, but I’d love to hear just, you know, overall, how you think about websites? Yeah. Malte Kramer 10:43There are two goals for for any website. And the first is to establish credibility. It’s about branding, establishing trust, and you can use your website just as a digital business card and still serve that first goal. So credibility is number one, and then two is lead generation. And not everyone uses their website as a lead generation tool, not everyone chooses to run digital ads, or do SEO, or do social in a way that drives traffic to their website. But that first goal everyone has, and everyone should have, in my mind, you know, just think about what you do when someone tells you about a product or service they like, right, you take out your phone, you Google it, and you go to the website, and you do your research. And it’s no different with any business we learn about. So even if you’re not running any advertising, chances are any repeat or repeat, sorry, referral business or word of mouth, those people are going to look you up. And so not having a website, in my opinion, is means you’re missing out on business. Almost certainly, right? If someone Google’s your name, and nothing shows up, right? You don’t you don’t have credibility. So that’s part one. And then on the lead gen side, there’s a lot that goes into it. Obviously, you know, conversion rate of the website matters a lot. You really should build dedicated landing pages, in my opinion, if you’re using them for specific ad campaigns. And not just drive traffic to a general homepage, which we both know is is never going to convert at the same level as dedicated landing page. But yeah, those are the two high level goals that we that we start with. And then based on on our clients preference, we built the site accordingly. D.J. Paris 12:21One of the one of the myths I want to dispel is the idea of putting up a website, and not understanding what SEO is and how important it is to actually drive traffic if you’re looking for organic traffic, meaning, you know, putting up a website and just hoping that people find it. You know, if I think most of our audience would know that, that that isn’t the way the world works these days, and hasn’t for quite some time. But it’s really important for people to remember that SEO is a is a is a difficult, difficult beast to really work with. You’re dealing with hundreds of factors that Google takes into account in order to determine when somebody does a search what you know what rank your particular website will be for that particular keyword or key phrase. And you’re not only competing against all the other realtors potentially in your area, you’re also competing against the brokerages themselves. Online lead gen companies like Zillow, Redfin, there’s a tremendous amount of competition for what we would call short tail keywords, which would be something like I live in Chicago, so Chicago realtor, if I were to try to rank for that, it would be very difficult, it would be a long, multi year process. It’s possible but it would be incredibly difficult. But there are longtail keywords that that people can have success with. So for example, in Chicago, maybe Chicago Realtors is too difficult to break into on Google, but maybe Wicker Park realtor cop for condos, you know, which is a long a longtail keyword meaning many, many words in that phrase, that is something that possibly you could work towards. Can you just talk just for a moment on SEO just so that when people are thinking about websites, they’re not necessarily getting the wrong impression? I’m going to put this website up and people are just going to find it? Yeah, Malte Kramer 14:15this is a very common misconception and a mistake agents make is they launched a website, and then they think magically, leads are gonna appear. And the reality is you have to drive traffic there somewhere. So the at a high level, there are three ways you can do it in a scalable way. One is on social media organically, which requires a lot of content. And we can get into that later, too is on Google organically, which is SEO, and then three is paid advertising, which we can talk about later as well, which is the most reliable, fastest way, but also probably the most expensive. So let’s hone in on the second one SEO. There’s a lot that goes into it. Google’s algorithm has hundreds if not 1000s of ranking factors that we know They take into account when they decide what are the 10 results that they’re going to show on the first page for any given search. And as you noted longtail keywords, the more specific and the smaller the search volume. Typically, the lower the competition, the easier it is to rank. And that’s usually what we recommend people start with is create a block, put blog posts on there that answer very specific questions that someone in your market may have. So something like what are the property taxes in Silver Lake could be a great blog post that someone might look for. Now, this keyword pause perhaps is only getting 10 searches a month, 50 searches a month, something very low. But if you do that with enough articles, and you rank for enough of these keywords, you can drive significant keyword search volume over time. The great thing about SEO is it compounds right you write the article once, and then once it ranks, it generates traffic every single month. And you don’t have to spend any additional money on acquiring that traffic. So it is a very effective high ROI long term strategy, in my opinion, D.J. Paris 16:02that we should, we should I just wanted to make one quick point about about that particular strategy. So what we have to think about, I think this will be helpful for anyone who has a website and is looking to rank organically for some of these longer tail keywords, like Malte was saying property taxes in Silver Lake, what you really have to focus on with respect to the blog post is, and this would be my recommendation, do that keyword search, do it in an incognito browser, so you get a true search result, versus doing it in your you know, locked anyway, just do the search, look for the top three or four results, see what kind of content those search results are, are, you know, have published, and then you have to beat that you have to do better than those top three searches. So you’re going to want to put some video in there, you’re going to want to put longer form content, the days of short form, text content is are over people want long form. So these are these is the way if you really want to go down this this path, you have to beat everyone out because Google’s objective is to serve up the best possible content for that particular search. And if yours isn’t the best possible content, well, Google can tell pretty quickly because people will bounce off of your site more quickly than maybe other sites and they’re gonna go well, we don’t want people to bounce off our site and have to do another search. We want them to go to the one that they think has the best. And they were just going to look at consumer behavior. So they’re going to look at what happens when someone visits your website. And then they’re going to determine Hey, this is a pretty good or not so good answer to this question that somebody put in the search. So let’s let’s talk about the other two ways of generating traffic because I think this is the more predictable path and certainly, certainly, yeah, certainly the less arduous task, which would be paid advertising and social media, organic social media. Let’s Yeah, let’s start with Windows. Malte Kramer 18:01Yeah, let’s talk about let’s talk about paid ads. Next, so paid advertising both on social and search, for obvious reasons as the most reliable way to get traffic to your site, you’re paying per click. And the way I recommend you approach it is by thinking about what type of offer you can make that will get get someone to give you their contact information. And usually that is a lead magnet or a type of offer that provides a lot of value. This could be a market report, this could be a home valuation, this could be access to a curated set of listings, if you have access to off market listings, this could be the promise of getting access to those. So think about what is the what is the thing that someone who’s searching on Google, or someone who’s browsing social media could be a good client will likely want and see value and and when you start with that offer, then the rest of the ad and the landing page becomes pretty clear. Usually you would target a keyword around that offer. So let’s take home valuations for example, you could target free home valuation or home valuation in Silverlake on Google, someone clicks on the ad gets to a landing page. Again, you want to mirror what you’re targeting on the landing page. So it should speak to that particular keyword search. And then you have on that landing page, a forum where someone can put in their contact information. Obviously, the more fields you ask, the lower your conversion rates going to be if you just ask an email to probably get a lot of leads, but you don’t know a lot about them. If you ask a phone number a conversion rate will be lower, but generally the quality of the leads will be higher. And from there the last and maybe most important step is these are leads that have to be nurtured. These are internet leads that are going to be on Google intent will be a bit higher than on on social media in general, because people are searching proactively for something within real estate whereas on social media, you’re in interrupting their experience by showing them an ad. So they may not be in the market at all. And so generally quality will be a little bit lower, and they’ll require more nurturing, and nurturing should take place over weeks and months. Speech elite matters. And then you want to have a nurture sequence, ideally automated, and some type of email marketing going out. Again, with the goal of providing as much value as possible, the goal is not to aggressively sell these people, the goal is to give them so much value that they trust you. And when they’re ready to transact, you’re the the agent or the brand that they call. So that’s the approach that we take two paid advertising at a high level, we’re D.J. Paris 20:40talking about email drip campaigns, on possible text campaigns, depending on what contact information you’re getting. Also, if you’re getting a phone number, the speed to lead is so critical. And again, these are a little different than a zillo lead. So Zillow, people have already raised their hand, they’ve already clicked on a particular property and said, I want to go see that. So it’s already as hot of a lead as you could probably get it being that they already want to take action. Whereas you’re right with paid advertising. Yes, they’re searching for something that you hope is is you know, a call to action. But you’re right, there may be a delay in the actual step to purchase or sell a property. So that the idea of how do you recommend nurturing? What what do you guys, what have you found with your clients works? Sort of the best for ROI? Is it? Is it a series of emails? Is it a combination of email, video text? What are you guys finding, as far as trends that seem to convert most, Malte Kramer 21:45it’s a combination of all three, ideally, and I would base the exact sequence on where the leads came from and where they are in the funnel. So if we’re talking high funnel, top of funnel, meaning someone on social media who downloaded a market report, you don’t really know if they’re ready to even talk to you. So phone call may not resonate, well, those we would have a sequence that’s a little bit lighter touch, I would recommend something that’s mostly email based, and you’re going to start sending them to newsletter, they’re going to need more warming up. Now, if you get someone who requested a home valuation, chances are on Google, chances are intense, a lot higher, they’re a lot more ready, definitely call and text them. And a lot of touch points, probably nine touch points over the course of two weeks as appropriate. One of the really exciting things that is happening now, thanks to AI is so much of this can be automated and still feel very personalized. We are about to broadly released, we’ve been in beta for our AI texting tool. And so leads that are coming in from your website, this tool can engage them. And if you read through the conversations, you are not able to tell that you’re not talking to a human being. I mean, it’s, it’s uncanny how well it corresponds. And it then sets up an appointment. And we’re seeing about 15% lead to appointment conversion rates, which is Wow, very high, obviously, for internet leads. And this was just text based text conversation. D.J. Paris 23:15And just to sort of put that in perspective, a 15%, lead to appointment ratio would be about Well, I think it’s three times or Well anyway, well, it’s gonna say, as I know, for Zillow, and upcity, and leads of that nature, which are internet leads already raised their hand, I want to go see this, if you can convert 5% of those leads, which by the way, our pay to play leads, either you’re paying on the front end, or the subsidy, you’re paying on the back end, but you’re buying the lead from those tech companies. And if you can close 5%, you’re a superstar. So the idea of, of getting a 15% conversion is incredible. And Malte Kramer 23:54to be clear, this is 15% from leads to meeting requests. So there’s the additional step you have to share of actually close, it may end up being a few closed and 30% of them that would get you to a 5% close rate, which I would be extremely high. You know, on average, I think industry average is something like 2% If that so but yeah, these, these AI tools are making it a lot easier. So you’re not the one anymore who has to do the texting and the calling yourself you can outsource that to to an AI assistant, which is really exciting. Are D.J. Paris 24:26you guys I am the most excited for AI around I’d love to talk about AI I’m most excited personally outside of real estate for this idea of having an assistant for me, where I’m able to converse with this assistant. Make sure that they know what I need on a daily basis, whether it’s scheduling, reminding me about XY and Z go pick up the groceries go, you know, whatever it may be that’s coming. And we’re seeing the most earliest versions of that in some of these website AI systems whether it’s Customer Service, we’re seeing this now, it used to be a lot pourer. In years past where you would go onto a website, you’d start a chat you clearly, they would just lie and say it was somebody’s somebody that wasn’t a real person, you can tell really quickly, because the conversation wasn’t all that authentic and organic. But now AI is getting a lot a lot better. And we’re seeing you’re actually able to have a meaningful interaction with with an AI Chatbot. Because the technology is just, you know, it just keeps keeps evolving. Are you guys adding that in as a feature as like a customer service? chatbot, I’m assuming to your front end websites. Malte Kramer 25:42We are Yes. So on the on the consumer facing side, there are a lot of these tools popping up now. And more and more companies doing this where the AI will communicate with the consumer on your behalf. And obviously, your website, chat is a great medium for it. Text after a contact inquiry comes in is a great medium for it. So that’s one part. And then the second part, which you also touched on, I’m even more excited about is AI, an AI assistant for the agent. So something that plugs into your systems, and then gives you a ideally voice based interface to interact with the AI assistant in the same way you would interact with a human assistant and just give a TAS and ask it to provide information. This is coming. We’re working on something we announced in August presents copilot which is our AI powered mobile platform. So this is exactly what we’re working on is giving agents their own 24/7 ai assistant who can take all the admin work all of the stuff that you hate doing, and take that off your plate. Yeah, D.J. Paris 26:46to me, that’s, that’s the, that’s the most exciting part for me is the idea of having some sort of assistant that and and companies are working on this, you guys are working on this, I think, you know, this is so exciting for agents, you know, maybe not as exciting for virtual assistants who, who who are working overseas right now for a lot of lot of realtors. But, but it is going to be really helpful. And companies like yours are going to start offering this product soon. So very excited to to see that offering in the future. Let’s talk about the platform of the actual website platform. So there’s the front end, which is the customer facing website, where they can learn about the agent, possibly search for properties, get a sense of the the realtors skill set their aesthetic, all of those things I will say before I ask about other other parts, because luxury presents, I believe has some of the prettiest and most aesthetically pleasing website design on it that I’ve seen in real estate. Have you were you surprised when he first got into this business that there wasn’t a lot of beautiful realtor website designs out there because I just can’t find them other than what you guys have. Malte Kramer 28:02I was and there’s so much great content to work with, especially in the luxury segment. That was always something that I was really passionate about is great design. And we from from the very beginning, we’ve invested in a in a strong design team, we brought over a design leader from Airbnb and she’s built an amazing design team. So it’s been part of the company’s DNA from from day one. And yeah, I always felt that was a missed opportunity for a lot of agents if you have this, this much great photography and videography and you’re selling such great product. Why not build a website that matches that that beautiful aesthetic? Well, let’s D.J. Paris 28:43talk about conversion. What’s what’s behind what’s under the hood. So we know what’s going to face the you know, eight client facing, you can go to luxury presents.com You can see some of the biggest names in real estate use luxury presents. But I’d love to know what’s behind the hood, what we can’t necessarily see ourselves, you know what’s going on behind the scenes outside of just this beautiful looking website. Malte Kramer 29:07Yeah, so the whole platform was built from the ground up specifically for residential real estate agents, teams and brokerages. So the entire CMS, the entire back end of the websites, everything is specific to real estate. So when you go into the back end, first thing you’ll notice is that the CMS is super easy to use. All the input fields are related to the type of content you want to show on your website. We have modules for your neighborhoods, we have pre built landing pages, we have an instant home valuation tool that you can use for lead gen, we obviously have our IDX home search tool. We’re expanding that into full collaborative search now with presence copilot, which works sort of seamlessly across desktop and mobile where you can take the leads that are coming in from the website and then start sharing listings with them via a mobile app. So it’s all integrated into one place. And then obviously you have module As for your listings, so they’re coming in from the MLS, and then you can showcase them on your website, you can create standalone property websites. So with a very intuitive website builder, you can go in, you can launch single property sites. And then you have modules for your leads for all the things we’ve talked about, we have a lead intelligence feature. So we pull in third party data, to tell you more about the leads that are coming in from the website. It’s quite spooky, actually, you go into lead, and suddenly you see past addresses they’ve lived in, and their social media links and their, their, their family names. And so it’s very easy to gauge, is this a real person or spam? And are they in my price range? Are they a good fit customer? Should I be spending my time on them? So yeah, there’s a lot there. And all of it is real estate specific. And we’ve we’ve worked, we’ve built this in very close partnership with a lot of our clients, many of which, as you noted, are at the, at the top of the game, and we take what they’ve learned what they found works, and we try to distill that into the product. D.J. Paris 31:04Yeah, you know, in particular, this consumer behavior, sort of database is retailers use this all the time to be able to predict when somebody is pregnant, for example. And it’s not because they’re necessarily buying a birth control, or sorry, a pregnancy test. There’s other signals that retailers have access to just with all this buying data that would actually tell somebody before they might even know that they’re pregnant, that there may be something going on with them and being being pregnant. So there is some incredible ways of of sort of taking data and running it through different systems, like you were saying, partners of yours, who then can really provide incredible information, here’s their social here, here’s what we know about their family, here’s what we know about them based on the email address they provided and their name. And it really just gives the agent more information to be able to have that conversation when they do reach out. And it gives them more than just an email and phone number and first name. So I’m a huge fan. Tell us a little bit about sort of the CRM functionality or the now that the leads in the system. So someone visits the website, there’s some call to action, they sign up, and then it goes into some sort of nurturing capacity. Talk a little bit of if you don’t mind talk a little bit about sort of what that looks like for the agent, how the agent sort of sees that lead come in and what they do do with it from there. Yeah, Malte Kramer 32:36so we we are not a CRM. And we while we offer some, what I would call lightweight CRM functionalities to manage your leads to now with presence copilot, do collaborative search to invite a client to have them on a list and tagged so there are some CRM functionalities. But for teams in particular that are looking for a more robust and full fledged CRM, we recommend that they use any of our integration partners. So we have native integrations with all the major CRMs and generally recommend using us in conjunction with with a CRM. Yeah, that D.J. Paris 33:13makes sense, because that’s a whole other sort of vertical to try to a mountain to climb, and you’re competing against massive, massive companies that have, you know, 15 years on you maybe have experience. So I agree that would be that’d be a tougher mountain. So the good news is they do integrate with all the major players out there, because of course they need to. So the good news is, it’s really, really easy, and it’s a pretty seamless integration. Let’s talk about I’d love to talk about website trend design trends, because this is something that is always evolving and changing. I remember 10 years ago or so there was a move to go to what’s called flat design, or minimal and flat design. And I’m curious on Where’s where do we think websites are headed? Because ways in which consumers are interacting online is changing. So I’m curious if you if you have any future trends that you think are emerging? Yeah. Malte Kramer 34:14In terms of the aesthetic, I would say, a trend. One trend we’ve noticed is back to real simplicity. And I think a recognition that what matters most at the end of the day is is usability and we have to start with usability and and craft the aesthetic rather than the aesthetic getting in the way. So there’s there’s a trend towards simplicity, I would say, given what’s possible now. We’re seeing more sort of more immersive experiences and interactive experiences. You know, five years ago had you asked me would not have recommended having video playing the background on mobile Now this is very much possible because of where internet speeds is and what technologies. So, you know, more interactive experiences, more, more use of video throughout the side. And, and I’d say an overall trend back to simplicity. What D.J. Paris 35:17about light versus dark as far as just color, I know you guys tend to skew dark, which I think is particularly interesting around real estate. That is a more modern trend, although now, white is is is real popular inside of homes, although that’ll probably be changing in 10 years anyway. But I’m curious on just color, what colors, I love the fact that you guys skew darker, or at least the a lot of the websites, I’ve seen skew darker, because that’s also was not really that popular in you know, realtor websites until you guys came along. Yeah. Malte Kramer 35:52So the preference between dark and light, I would say really comes down to the emotion someone wants to evoke. And I have seen some agents that really want the light and airy feel that you can get with a lighter color palette, and especially in markets that are perhaps more more something like Miami, where you would want to sort of present that type of feeling. I’ve seen light color palettes work really well. But overall, yeah, I think especially in the high end market, agents still love the dark and moody look. And the the one thing I would say is just regardless of the color palette, just to make sure that everything is very legible. Sometimes I see people use very small fan fonts, because it’s, you know, it looks sexy, to minimize the fonts. But again, like focus on the usability first making sure it’s readable and easily easy to navigate. So, you know, not letting the creativity get in the way of the usability. And then I do think it’s valuable to have accent colors beyond black and white, even if it’s sparingly used for things like your CTA buttons. If you’re just working in a variable, a CTA is a call to action call to action. Yeah, you want to be able to draw attention to specific buttons on the site or specific links, especially if you’re using it on as a landing page. You’re not going to get the landing page to perform as well if you don’t have any color on it, and it’s just black and white. So some color as an accent is always a good thing. D.J. Paris 37:31Yeah, I agree. And one thing that I’ll just sort of share if you’ve this is how you know if you’ve visited a luxury presence website for for an agent. What and I was so impressed you guys were the first company that I found that that did this. And now I’m sure they are all doing it probably copying what you guys, you know, came or I don’t know if you’d necessarily pioneered it. But really, we’re the biggest firm to bring it to market that I found was that when a consumer visits the luxury presents website, one thing happens. In fact, I have seen this a lot of brokerages now have this as well, where as the login, Google login will instantly show up, especially if you’re on a Chrome browser. So what happens is person visits website, they instantly get Hey, please log in, well, they probably haven’t logged in before. If there are new new person, they click on that it instantly creates a connection between their Google account if they’re logged into Google, which they are most likely. And then it instantly creates an account inside of the back end system for luxury presence so that the agent gets to capture that information instantly. It’s a one click thing. It is very, very, very cool. And I hopefully I’m not sharing too much of your secrets, because it’s not really a secret. But I love the fact that you guys really put a lot of faith into that process. And it works. I can’t tell you how many websites outside of real estate, I have clicked on that exact same Google thing. Before I even done anything on that website. I just go okay, whatever I’ll call click on it. It’s amazing. I’m curious to know how that came to be. And yeah, how successful that is for you guys. Malte Kramer 39:07It’s been incredibly successful. It’s the single it’s the one thing if you don’t do anything else, and you want to get more leads from your website, that’s one thing you should add is the one click Google login. It came about we have a team that’s just constantly focused on innovation around conversion and how can we drive more leads to our clients from their websites, and out of their research and and dem testing things? We get these ideas like this one click Google login tool. I’ll give you one other great one. This would probably be number two on my list, which is an exit intent form I was just about D.J. Paris 39:47to ask. Okay, so here’s what exit intent is every one as the person starts to move their mouse closer to the X for that particular tab or even the browser. The website can And notice through like JavaScript or whatever, some sort of script that will notice the mouse movement will notice its persons moving in that direction. And they will put up an interstitial, or what we would call like a faux pop up a little pop up saying, Hey, before you leave, or that’s what they used to do. I don’t know what they show now. But a little bit of a like a call to action, just before the person is like walking out the door. If it was a retail shop, one more thing, kind of thing. Malte Kramer 40:24Yep, that’s exactly right, that works extremely well as well. What D.J. Paris 40:27do you recommend putting it like, so I have a thought I want to get your take on it. So if you are going to add an exit intent, which is what we’re talking about somebody wanting to exit out the website and getting a final offer. Now, if it’s retail, if you’re selling a sort of a product, maybe you’d put off 10% off if you know before you leave that kind of coupon obviously Realtors don’t have necessarily that but it could be a white paper could be a free home pay. Before you leave, let’s let me find out. Let me tell you what I think your home’s currently worth something like that is that what you’re seeing works best? Malte Kramer 41:01Yeah, this goes back to the previous point around offers. Whenever you interrupt someone’s experience, I recommend make sure that you’re giving them a lot of value. Otherwise, they’ll be angry, right, you’re sort of they’re trying to leave your website and you’re telling no Hold up a second. And that’s not the time to make an ask, it’s the time to give a lot of value. And the way you give value is through an offer, like what you just mentioned, something that works really well is if you have access to off market listings, that’s often often something that’s has really high perceived value. So sign up here to get access, that’s a D.J. Paris 41:36good one off market. That’s a great one. The other the other thing I was I was thinking of with respect to to sort of website trends and design is, is less is more with respect to text. Because at least on a on a homepage, we certainly want information there. That specific that does talk about what the agent does, who they are. And you know, but the more information we provided in a text form, I think we start losing people as we get. Again, they’re all dependent. While I should let me back up, it really depends on the intent of the actual consumer. So what I recommend, and by the way, anyone who has a website, can can find a service that will do this is install what’s called a heatmap system, which will just basically track the clicks the mouse movement on somebody’s website, and you will start to get a better sense of what your consumers like about your site, and what they don’t like if you’re getting a high bounce rate, if you’re looking at your Google Analytics, and you know, the average bounce rate is 13 seconds. Well, okay, what why are they leaving after 13 seconds? What am I not? What am I not providing? And the heat map will tell you what’s most interesting to people on your website, it’ll give you at least a general idea of maybe the direction to go. I imagine you guys use heat mapping all the time to constantly refer How often are you reef reforming your designs to match the sort of consumer behavior that’s always changing? Yeah, Malte Kramer 43:13we we’re constantly adding to the library of elements. And often we’ll find something that we think everyone should have. And we turn it on for everyone if we believe that it’s a best practice. So the Google one click login, for example, people can opt out of it. But we’ve established it as a best practice that comes standard with all of our templates are all of our themes. And then our library, I think at this point, we have over 500 different elements, meaning widgets that you can use on the website. Obviously, our websites are always very customized. So every agent has different preferences, different elements they use. But there are some best practices that our team develops that we then roll out for everyone. And this is I would say on at least on a monthly basis, we come out with something something new. D.J. Paris 44:02And with respect to the somebody becomes a client of yours, can they do their own design? Meaning can they utilize your elements and organize them in the way that they think makes sense? And can they also offload that to you guys as well? Are there different levels of service there? Yeah, there are Malte Kramer 44:23we offer everything from working with our team to use the existing elements to create something that’s still customized, but within an existing design framework. All the way up to something fully custom where we’re starting from scratch our design team is can design anything that you have in mind. We don’t have a self service offering where you would build it left completely on your own. That said, once we build the first draft of a website, many of our clients they’re in the platform all the time building their own landing pages and using the existing elements so that it is very much possible Yeah, D.J. Paris 45:00I think that is really cool. And I would like to make sure our audience knows how they can learn more about luxury presents, because we want, even if you don’t choose luxury presents as your front end website, sort of design team, and you probably should consider that. But at the very least, you’ll get a good education of what good design looks like. So that if, if luxury presents isn’t the right fit, you can go maybe find somebody that is a little bit closer to what you need. But what is the best way that an agent can learn? And by the way, when you go to the luxury President web presence website, you will see some big names on there that you know, in the real estate world, and, you know, from from all different sorts of providers. They’re all big fans of luxury presents, but what’s the best way? Should they go to the website and request a demo? Or how does how does it work? Malte Kramer 45:49Yeah, so if you request the demo on the website, you can have a consultation with our team. And they’ll be able to walk you through examples of our design, they’ll be able to show you case studies of the marketing we’ve done for our clients. So you can get a sense, if you just want to get a sense of our design work on the websites we have on our website, we have a design portfolio page, you can check out or if you follow us on Instagram, we post a lot of our work there. And that will give you a good sense of the design quality. D.J. Paris 46:20And I had one final question and I just Oh my gosh, I It’s eluding me at the moment. So I will remind everyone to please visit luxury presents.com. There’s a call to action on there where you can put in your information and they will reach out to you and give you more information about In fact, the top producer in Chicago, actually in Illinois, Don McKenna is She’s a local legend here in Chicago. And she’s also in Florida, and I think South Carolina and a few other markets. She is She’s a customer. And along with a lot of other very Jade Mills, you mentioned Ryan serhant, Tom Ferry, etc. There’s lots of lots of big names on here. So guys, really, you should check this out, whether it’s the right fit for you today, or it’s something to aspire to, because this is not the lowest cost provider. But that’s why it’s a luxury brand. luxury brands have luxury pricing. But the top agents in the country really do use luxury presents, and they really don’t have much competition, quite honestly, at least I have. I mean, there’s little shops that in every city that will build people websites, but not people that understand realtor websites quite the same. So I definitely recommend checking that out. And also please follow them on LinkedIn. They actually I was talking to multi before the show. And he said actually our LinkedIn is really, really successful for us. So luxury presence is where you find them on LinkedIn, same on Instagram, I will have links to all of this in the show notes. And since I can’t remember my final question, I will just ask you, where do you think the real estate market is headed because you are affected by high interest rates as well. Because even though you’re in the luxury space, and you’re your audience, our top Realtors mostly who are doing just fine. This year, we have a lot of agents in a down market currently who are struggling. I know that this is a little bit outside of your purview necessarily. But are you hopeful that the that interest rates will change in the next year? Do you have any any insight you could share about where you see trends coming for, for what real estate agents might expect? You know, in the next year or so? Malte Kramer 48:33Yeah. I am hopeful. Although I think it’s it’s gonna get a little bit worse before it gets better. Yeah, my best guess is six months of things getting worse. And then as slow recovery. The numbers I’ve seen all have a two plus year recovery to get back at least to get back to historical averages. And it’s not the best news. And obviously it’s you know, it’s a tough market right now. But I think it’s better to be realistic about how long it’s going to take and to buckle down and find a way to be successful in this market environment because it may last for a while. But yeah, that’s my best guess is probably two years of recovery. D.J. Paris 49:23I think you’re probably right. And I did remember my last question. It was about recruiting. So this is a huge opportunity. Right now we are seeing a flight to teams in the brokerage world in the agent world really I should say agents are either joining teams creating teams this is I mean Maltese business is pretty much all teams for the most part. A lot of his these big producers, our teams, not all but a lot of them are and these are also great recruiting sort of magnets for agents because agents are always looking to see what teams might be a good fit And they’re going to look up the website. So even if there’s two sort of components, there’s the consumer part of it that you want to attract. But it’s also if you’re looking to build your team, you really need a beautiful looking website to also attract those other agents. Are you seeing some of your some of your agent clients using them as recruiting tools? Malte Kramer 50:18Yeah, it’s a great point. And you mentioned Dawn McKenna earlier, she is actually a great case study for this. She launched with us back in 2016. At the time, she had four agents on her team was doing about 120 million in annual sales. And since then, she has scaled to 20 agents, six markets, she’s now in Naples, she’s in Salt Lake, all over the place. And if you ask her, she’ll say it was the brand she created. And it was the website, those two things have helped her the most. And she gets a lot of her agents through just organically, they there, see the brand does see a social, they see the website. So it definitely helps in that regard. And one thing I’ve seen, some teams do is create dedicated recruiting pages on their website that speak to agents who may want to consider joining them. D.J. Paris 51:03Yeah, that goes back to the idea of creating specific landing pages for different people who are visiting the website. So driving somebody just to the homepage, it gives them a general overview of what that agent is all about, or the team is all about, but having a specific, dedicated page that you drive somebody to maybe through either organic work, you know, best real estate team in Silver Lake, for example, or looking to join a real estate team in Silver Lake. Those are longtail keywords that people do search now. And they might not get more than, you know, 10 to 50 searches a month, like multi was saying earlier, but wouldn’t you like to be number one for those 10 to 50 searches, I know I would kill to be number one for those, even if it’s just a handful of people a month. So creating those individual landing pages is really, really critical. So please reach out to luxury presidents, they have all of these tools and guys, the best. The biggest plug I can give to them is the top agents in the country use it. Almost everybody I’ve interviewed on this show. That’s a bit of an exaggeration. But the vast majority of people I interviewed today on the show us luxury presents, so I am not a paid spouse spokesperson for them. I am literally just telling you what I witnessed. And that’s why I had multi on the show today to talk about sort of what makes them different. And boy, they are they different. So check them out luxury presents.com. Follow them on Instagram and LinkedIn links to all of that in the show notes. And on behalf of our audience. Malte thank you so much we know you were you know you are a you know, a mid sized company of 600 employees this is this is you don’t have time to just basically jump on a podcast for an hour. Every every every so often. So you do this. You did this as a favor. I appreciate that. Thanks from our audience to you. And then of course, we from our audience we want to we we also multiday, I want to thank the audience for sticking around to the very end, please help us in a couple of ways. One, if you know an agent that’s looking to build a website, shoot them over to luxury president.com presents calm or maybe they probably already have a website and they want to maybe improve it, shoot them over to luxury presents. And also please tell a friend about this episode. Think of one other realtor that’s looking to up their online game in 2024. And send them a link because this might actually give them some information about how they can improve their web presence. And also, please leave us a review wherever you’re listening to the show. Let us know what you think of the show. Leave us a review. Tell us we read every one of your comments. And it always helps us to improve as well. Marty, thank you so much for being on the show. And we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks Malte Kramer 53:38for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you

Welcome to Breaking Down Ali’s Systems mini-series with Ali Garced. In this mini-series Ali will be explaining how she built her systems both for buyers and for sellers. This is the first part of the Seller Checklist series covering the whole process from the beginning, even before you meet your client, to the follow-up after the end of the transaction. Please follow Ali on Instagram here. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Ali Garced can be reached at ali@garcedrealty.com and (914) 318-4918. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Today ally Garside is going to share with you her seller checklist. Trust me. This is awesome. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Ali Garced 1:30What is up my beautiful friends beautiful agents I am here. This is Aligarh said ally the agents on all social media spelled al I am back with another series of the seller checklist this time. So we’re going to go over from the very, very start before you even meet with a seller all the way to the very, very end past the transaction what you do in the follow up. So we’re probably not going to get to every single portion during this one series. So this is going to be maybe either part one of two or part one of three in the seller series for checklists. So thank you, DJ, if you have been enjoying these checklists, please give keeping it real a five star review on whichever platform you listen to it. I believe Apple is the best way to give the review. But however you listen to it, I highly suggest you watch these series again on YouTube. Because I’m sharing my screen, I’m going to be vocalizing as much as I can, but I can’t get to everything. Plus, to be able to maximize this experience. Fellow real estate agents hop on YouTube and watch this in person you can that way. That way you can follow along and start creating your own checklist. I’m showing you everything I not like holding anything of these checklists. To me, I am very much in the opposite mindset of that I like to share, which a lot of people don’t have doing unless they have been featured on this podcast because this podcast is all about sharing. So again, please give DJ five star review. I would super appreciate that. If you’d like to give me a follow and connect with me talk with me. We can become referral partners, whatever you want to do. My name is Ali, the agent on all social media that is spelled a li that’s how I spell Ali Ali, the agent or if you want a copy of these checklists, text the word checklist as one word one word checklist. Otherwise, it doesn’t the auto response doesn’t work. So one word checklists to the phone number 520-341-2552. And again, I’ll give you the buyer checklist which I already covered the seller checklist which I’m starting today and the referral checklists. I mean I also have onboarding checklists for teams and crew. These checklists are what helped my crew. The agents on my on my crew earn six figures in eight months. Some of these agents are earning three times the amount that they were earning at previous brokerages before coming over to us before coming over to our crew. So if it’s helping them you know, it hopefully will help you and I’m glad to share these with you from the bottom of my heart. I’m literally just trying to help so yes, let’s get started right. Alright, guys, we let’s get started. Here we go. Okay, I use Trello. Again, you don’t have to use Trello So in previous in previous episodes already, I’ve laid out how I organize my Trello board. So in here again following on follow along on YouTube, I have already opened up my seller checklists my seller template. So at the top here you’ll see that I name it seller name that I have the name the address the Coming Soon date if we decide to do that I’m actually not the biggest fan and then the go live date and the expected Close of Escrow or Coe. as I go along, some things are going to be just Arizona specific. So keep in mind, Always talk to your broker because you have any questions always talk to your TC two for a quality check. Talk to whoever else you might need to to see hey, is this How do we do this in our state or start implementing it, because there’s something that I there’s some things that I implement from other states, for example, I implement the non refundable, earnest money that North Carolina does into Arizona, which Arizona does not do that, which is crazy, Arizona is very buyer, it’s very safe for a buyer to back out and get all their money back, they can really, really hurt a seller if they wanted to. But um, here we go. Okay. So in the description here, again, you don’t have to use Trello. But it is it is free, I have a bunch of questions where I will, I will get to it in the method that they that they asked me. So sometimes a seller or a potential seller will call me because they saw me on Google, and I don’t pay for Google ads, guys, I just have my Google business page. So if you do not have your Google business page, you are missing out on the number one website in the world, which is free, it is free to have a Google business page. You know what here, let me show you mine. So in that way, business.google.com is how you’re going to start your business, your Google business page, you do have to be verified in order to in order to like make into any sort of rankings. And to be verified, you have to gate post postcard in the mail. So if you have a formal address, like a work address, perfect, if not, you’re going to have to use your personal address. So if you don’t mind sharing it excellent. If not, use your work address or you know, figure it out on some other way. But Google reviews are so so powerful. I have been in the business for two and a half years. And I have been ranked number one on Google when you search like military real estate agent in Tucson or some sort of specific word, someone told me that I that I rank for number one I’m on, you know, the one of the first real estate agents in Tucson, and I’ve been doing this for two and a half years, I only have 77, zero Google reviews, you don’t have to have hundreds or more in order to start getting phone calls from sellers. So I will say that, for Google business. This is a whole, you know, Bs in and of itself. But always try to be adding photos, I’m pretty sure you could also add videos too. So definitely do that. But as long as you’re tweaking it somehow, once a week, add one photo on there of a listing that you have, or or maybe even someone else’s listing, of course with that listing agents permission, always always gonna have it in writing and saving in your folder. But if you get a review, then go ahead and respond to it. And yeah, and also some people will think that negative reviews will hurt you. It is all about how you respond to those negative reviews because that is what people want to know how you respond to negativity. Because I’m sure it’s human nature. Like whenever you go to a Yelp for a restaurant and or like a moving company, I just recently did that you see like the negative reviews? How does that company publicly treat that person? You know? Anyway, I’m going on a rant here, but Google Business Review. So get that started there Google business page, and keep that up to date. So where am I so depending on how the seller comes to you, whether it’s a phone call, or an email, or a group chat, because you’ve trained your your besties your friends to say, hey, whenever you know of a potential seller, please have that group chat sort of group chat with me, don’t just give them my phone number. I’ll never hear from them that way, please sort of group chat. It’s a warm handoff, and it creates more stickiness. So however, however way you typically have that first conversation, which might be various different ways, depending on how long I feel, but those sellers want to stay on the phone, I will stay as long as they want. Sometimes they just want to touch base and say, Hey, we’re interviewing around, and I want to give you the opportunity. No, we want to interview you. So great. Go ahead and establish a little bit of rapport. Do not keep them on the phone too long. But make sure that before you get off the phone, you have that appointment scheduled, some sellers are ready to chat, they are ready to go. So if you have time, if you answer the phone, then at that point, do it you know, stay on the phone and go through these questions until you start getting a sense that they are you know wanting to get off the phone that they have other things to do so but the point of the foot the first phone call or the first text message, you know, the point of that initial contact is to get the listing appointment, get your foot in the door, so that you might be asking all these questions you might be asking three questions. It really really depends. So that’s like the funnel Right? Like they might come from here from there from wherever you that at that point, you want to start putting them in your funnel the way that you do things, which is the same every single time. So what I do and what you guys are more than happy to. I’m more than happy to share these exact questions with you. If I go on Calendly I love Calendly you guys are free to copy and paste these questions calendly.com. So let’s see a l e n d fly. I don’t know why I’m like trying to memorize it, I can literally just read this slash gar said Realty cars. That is my last name, G AR CE de Realty slash seller. If you go in that, you’re going to see exactly what I’m showing you here. So this is the information that I want, before we book the formal or more formal, either phone call or a zoom call, I always prefer zoom. So here we go. I asked for their name, their email, their phone number, of course, the address of the property they’re selling. And I asked them, if they would like a connection to a great real estate agent in the city that they’re moving to or agents, a couple of agents, of course, that’s going to help with the referral. Right? Oh, and I blocked this off for about 45 minutes just in case. I also ask them have Have you ever had to file an insurance claim on the property you’re selling? At least in Arizona, it takes quite a bit in order to get those insurance claims. And of course, state by state check with your broker, in case you aren’t sure. But whenever there is, we have to do a clean report, right? We have to find out the comprehensive loss underwriting, you know, whatever report has the property ever had to file a claim because the buyers need to know about that. So if that’s if they do if they ever have had to file an insurance claim, that takes a very long time. So you want to get that process started ie immediately, then the next question is, in a perfect world, when would you want to sell your house by that gives you have the opportunity to or the insight to know okay, I need to meet these with these sellers like tomorrow, or oh, they’re not looking to sell for another eight months? Great. They’re just doing research. Keep them on your follow up. And I’ll get into exactly what the follow up is like in my checklists. But it just gives you an idea of how fast you’re looking at. The next question I asked, What will a buyer a buyer be nitpicky about during their inspections, or the walkthrough of your property? This? And by the way, I have all of these questions with asterisks. So they have to put something in of course, they could put, they could get by with just putting like a spacebar or like a period and not answering it. But I’m going to ask it again, in the Zoom call. So what this question does here is have them start thinking, putting there was a phrase, let’s just start thinking like a buyer, you know, like star taking a little bit of emotional attachment away from the home that they love so much. And start thinking about what is the buyer going to be complaining about? Oh, yeah, we’ve had that like sink that’s always leaking? They’re probably going to be complaining about that. Or, Oh, we do have a you know, whatever it is. And then the next question, what is most important to you in a real estate agent? What specifically are you expecting of us? I use the word us because I again, we’re in case you don’t know this, I was interviewed on a couple of episodes ago, if you search ally on keeping it real, where a DJ interview just me and my business not not not the checklist stuff, I actually run an an out bound referral only business. Now, I had so many leads my first year in the business, that I couldn’t keep up with it. So I had to form a crew, a team, I use a team loosely because we don’t have any team splits at all. So that’s why I say us, because I fell in love with prospecting, I fell in love with finding clients. And that’s all we want to do. So when I start saying us, because it’s not going to be just me working on selling your home, it’s going to be me and a trusted agent, someone on my crew who I refer to refer to my crew members. So to the client, it is we are both helping them out. It’s two agents for the price of one. But on the back end, it’s really just a referral. So we work hand in hand. Of course, I’m here for anything. But that’s why I started saying us just in case you’re wondering about that. And the next question, will all parties be on the title? Sorry, will all parties on the title be on the call that you booked on this Calendly? If they say no, do not go on the call, say Okay, Let’s reschedule. And let’s make sure that all parties are there. So you want to make sure if you use Calendly you know that as soon as somebody books, if you have the settings up, you’ll get an email and you’ll get a text message saying Aligarh said a potential seller booked a call with you November 14 at 5pm. Excellent. You can then log into Calendly or look at your calendar on I use Google Calendar and see the questions that they answered. If this question is checked, no. Then And I’m not going to have the appointment. I want all the all the parties that need to be there on the call otherwise, every time you flex on your rules, you know what happens? Guys? I don’t even need to explain that to you. Okay, what else? And then the last question, what else should we know before we meet? Again, that’s a catch all pretty similar to my buyer side where, where if you wanted to take a look at my buyer checklist, again, it’s the same thing. It’s calendly.com/gorsedd Realty slash buyer. And then the last section is where they can send text messages to so that way they receive the link to the Zoom call. So after that, after that is, you know, they fill out the information, they book a call, and all the parties are going to be there and they’ve answered all the questions. Then at that point, let’s Let’s book a zoom call, or I will call them because sometimes at that point, it’s just go ahead and start the start. Have that be the listing appointment. Again, this part is still a little bit flexible. Sometimes they just want to do zoom, which is fine. I will I will go at your pace. Because the last thing I would want to do is force my foot in the door when they didn’t want me there. Like and force the listing. That is just a recipe for disaster. We’re starting off on the wrong foot, I’m probably not going to get a five star review. No. So if they wanted me to resume first before in person, perfect, let’s do that. If they so I’ll send them a text after that say, Hey, Ali, I’m so I’m so excited to to get you scheduled a call, would you like this call to be over zoom? Or would you like it to be in person at your house, boom. So either way, zoom or at their house, then let’s go to the Trello checklist. So of course when we go to the we’re jumping a little bit forward here, but when we go into the the listing appointment, the rest of these questions in this Trello are going to be answered. So it’s going to be you know, the typical questions How much do you own the property again, shoot me a message text the word checklist to phone number 520-341-2552 to get a copy of these questions. You know, Hoa any litigations, any additional liens? What should I know that we haven’t discussed yet. Age of the, you know, roof H HVAC, water heater, etc, everything. But here we go. Let’s start starting with bullet point number one, under the very first section of the seller checklist pre meet, what are you doing before you even meet with them. One, of course, add the client or clients all the parties involved to your calendar for either daily, weekly, monthly follow up, depending on how far out they plan on selling. And so I of course add them to my CRM as well, which is right here, a couple of bullet points down, add them to my Cavey core. But I also add them to my calendar because I do not want this to get lost you because I’m sure you know it, it sometimes can be hard to catch up on everybody that you need to talk to on your Cavey core or on your CRM, right like there’s sometimes like 40 people to reach out to a day, that’s a lot, especially if they all decide to respond that day. So you’re having all these conversations. So therefore, as a as a safety measure, I also put them on my calendar in the color red, red means appointments to me on my google google calendar, so I will never skip out on that. Then next, get their full names filled out. Because of course, sometimes people go by nicknames or people go by their middle names, but that’s not what the tail record, say, etc. Get their email, get their phone number and immediately ask again, in case you haven’t already, or in case they haven’t answered, hey, what’s important to you in the agent that you’re choosing to represent you to sell your home? And then take notes and make sure that you are listening. The next question or the next item on the checklist is ask the sellers two questions before they’re going under contract with them. So and same thing with the buyer side too. How often do you expect to hear from me or us? And when you reach out to me how quickly do you do expect the response back? Because if they’re if this is a perfect time for client expectations, same thing with the buyers, were sometimes we sleep. I don’t think clients always know that. But sometimes real estate agents do sleep and we kind of have to remind them of that, hey, I actually turn off you know, my my business hours after six o’clock I’m actually just spending with family. But if there’s anything else that you need for me, you will be the first thing that I get to the morning the next day. So what if they seem to be maybe I don’t want to say the word reasonable but if they’re like hey, you know if you’ve take if you take a couple of hours, four hours to get back to me totally fine, perfect. Whatever your business I’m not saying there’s any right or wrong. I’m saying whatever. works for you. Perfect, if not have that conversation with them. Because if there’s if they’re expecting X and they’re not budging, and you’ve tried to establish those expectations and it’s still not going to work, then it might be a red flag to continue. Remember, it’s not always the best to take on every single listing, you’re not going to get along with every single client. Sometimes you can save so much time and even better, so much energy and peace of mind by not taking some clients on. Never forget that. Oh, man. Okay. Ask me how I know. Okay, so then next, ask them what the best method of communication is for them. What I do, whenever I send a referral out is I’m on the text, thread, especially for all iPhones. Even better, if not, I’m actually leaning toward WhatsApp, especially since I have a lot of military clients and they’re coming from all sorts of the world, you know, Germany, Japan, Korea, so WhatsApp is super important to us. So all the parties are going to be on WhatsApp, that’s gonna be me, the actual listing agent, all all of the bar, the seller parties, maybe even you know, title or on the buyer side lender, and then stick to that if they prefer texts, or if they prefer phone call, or if they prefer email, just make sure I actually add that to the very, very top of this Trello checklist I never forget, I just put in all capital letters, text or email. But if it is email, I usually text them to saying hey, I just sent you an email because I don’t know if that’s what I would want for me. So okay, going on. I add them to my Cavey core, I add them as you know, either a prospect or an active lead or an actual client. And then I set up market alerts on Cavey core there’s probably same thing if you’re using command if you’re Keller Williams or you know anything like that Lyon desk, then I go to my county assessor website of course, this is only going to be for Tucson here but go in your county assessor website or ask title and look up who else purchased the home who else is a legal owner of the property is an LLC, is it multiple sellers, one time I was selling a property that was owned by five different sellers. Luckily, four of them were in we’re still in the city. But the other one was, I think in like across the country, it was very, very difficult. But hey, at least was my third transaction. I love that I had these difficult transactions in it like early on. So that way you know everybody that you need to be talking to. So everything that I haven’t bold in these checklists, I have a virtual assistant do you can do the same thing. So pretty similar to like my buyer checklist as well. So then I have a virtual assistant. The next step here is to send the pre list email. So I also have them send the 47 ways to make your home sell faster. That’s a document that I will be giving you as part of this checklist after we meet the ultimate seller checklists and the what we do for you attachment. I create a timeline for the sellers to get ready for the listing appointment. I make the listing appointment this is very easy with exp if you’re with exp you just hop on Cavey core and like in a matter of maybe three clicks you have the listing presentation, of course then you have to personalize it or customize it for that address for the radius for Nina just getting the comps but it’s a great listing presentation and they actually just increased their they now they don’t have like the listing boxes or whatever I actually personally haven’t used that yet they just rolled it out. Then of course the make the listing appointment you should have already done that. Then the next step is again in bolt. So this is something that your that your virtual assistant can do or it can be automated with using Zapier or Zapier or however we pronounce it. So choosing the title company that you typically work with, send them a text and then a call, whatever your method of communication is typically with them and say hey, what’s up Gina? I have another listing can we do an early bird escrow? And would you mind assisting me again with those snacks and the branded water bottles? With both of our branding This is the address this is these are the open house dates that we’re thinking of. I’ll let you know in case they change. Y’all are the best I’ll be so much XL XL. Yeah. Then you want to make sure that after the title company again, this might be different depending on your state but after the title company looks up that property you want to make sure there aren’t any liens that you weren’t aware of. And that way you can have done your research before you even meet with them. So the rug can be pulled out from under you. I assume that these phrases I should probably just make up my own at these. This boy okay. You want to call the HOA if the HOA applies. You want to make sure see if there are any liens on the property. This Bibi in the boat one time Oh We went on the market. And the seller told me this is my I think my my second listing ever came from my very, very first round of posting fliers up or doing mailers. And which was like one of the very, very few times that I’ve actually, anyway, it doesn’t matter. I am not really the biggest fan of mailers. But it’s because I have been consistent with them enough. So I sent out one one round of mailers, and I get a listing. I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Why doesn’t everybody do this? Right? So I’m getting with the seller, and the seller never told me that. Or rather, the seller told me that the HOA gave gave him a pass because he was elderly, because he’s a vet that he didn’t have to. But he didn’t have to mow his lawn. Well not mow the lawn, but like take care of the weeds because we don’t have grass here in Arizona, that the HOA, like dude was doing it out of the kindness of their heart. And I believe that this now that I’m saying this out loud, I’m like, how could I even believed it the way that he said it was very convincing, guys. Okay. So it wasn’t until we went on, we went live on the market. When what hope I forget how exactly I found out I think maybe it was title at that point, because I did title after instead of opening up earlybird escrow, which I will always open up early bird escrow. This is a reason why to do it. They said yeah, you cannot sell the property unless the seller pays off the debt that’s already in collections. That was from the HOA, because the HOA said, No. Why would we ever just allow somebody to have weeds? Why would we be doing this work for free? We did not have that, you know, that agreement set with him. And he paid he waited so long to pay off his bill that we now send it to collections. And of course, once it’s in collections, I can barely do any talking because it’s through the attorneys. And it only had to be him he didn’t want to. And he pretty much said oh yeah, I thought you wouldn’t notice I’m like, okay, cool. On taking, I’m naughty, I’m deleting you from my KB core. I’m not even gonna ever do a follow up with you. But a lesson learned, please do not make my mistake. Open up the earlybird escrow? Yeah. And then of course, after this, we’re going to be getting into a lot of the questions that you want to make sure that you have prepared for the listing appointment. Why are you moving? Are you aware of any of what homes in your neighborhood are going to be selling are typically selling for already? How much do you owe on the property? Does it have solar? How much is left in the solar? Is it a lease? Is it alone? What will happen if if you don’t sell what are your plans, then if they say they don’t really care, then that means they’re not really motivated. And at any point, they can just say, You know what? Cancel this listing, I just want to rent it out. Instead. I’ve had that happen to me, too. And off, does that hurt? So before I even get any further, I do want to give you this lesson learned as well. I now have a $3,000 cancellation fee. Do you know how much I’m sure you do. You spend a lot of money up front working with sellers, you do not spend upfront money working with buyers. For this reason, I actually lean toward working with buyers. There’s no there’s gas, that’s all I pay for gas and my time. It’s not the $1,000 for photos and staging and videography. And for the drones. And for the aerial photos. It’s not you know, the staging, just in and of itself, there is so and all the marketing that comes to it is a lot of upfront. Time, money, effort, blood, sweat, and tears. So for that reason, I always have no matter who it is no matter what, I have a $3,000 cancellation fee. That’s a catch all. So that will pay for the photos, the staging, if we do that, the marketing efforts that we took, and the rest is to pay for our time. Because we are professionals. There is no reason that you know, attorneys should be you know, even I can go on a rant I already am going on a rant about this, huh? So attorneys have the what is it called? The Why am I blanking? Man, what is that word? I’ll get to it. But if attorneys can be paid like beforehand before they even do the work, so can we and our contract even says So again, this is Arizona. Our contract is different from every other states. But our contract allows us to work on what’s the word, please comment below the word if you’re watching this on YouTube, or if you’re even, you know, listening to this on Apple comment the word below I know you’re thinking of it, and I can’t think of it. But you know what I’m talking about. So, no matter what, I have a $3,000 cancellation fee. Only one time ever have I ever had that been? Have you ever even had an objection to that? And I explained to them, Hey, we’re spending a lot of money upfront the photos alone cost nearly $1,000 and I’ve been hurt before in the past where I spent, you know, $3,000. And then the seller decided to take it off the market. And then not only did I lose $3,000, but I also lost the opportunity cost in order to help out other clients. They honestly, I was just so honest with them, and they’re like, You know what, I get it. So the cancellation that I have is in the additional comments of my contract my TC knows that I do that every single time that everyone in our crew, like in my ESPN downline, they do that. So that way they don’t get burned. Because I got burned once and girl, do you know that I followed up? I followed up until I got that listing again, like, Hey, how’s the rental going? Hey, have you gotten any tenants in there yet? Hey, like, luckily, the property management companies in Tucson are not that good. So that helped me I got the listing back, we sold it. But after that, that was a lesson learned that I will not be working for free again. So please don’t do you know, you also should not be working for free. Okay. So the next question, if you were a buyer looking to purchase your house today, what would you pay for it? And of course, this is going to elicit some emotional reaction, but also could tell you that the sellers are pretty much on core on on par for what the house is what the house is worth. Then, on a scale of one to 10 with 10, being your home is perfect. How would you rate it? That’s question number one. The follow up question to that is what would make it the 10? That question that part of the question is the most important of those two, because it gets them thinking, oh, what what could I do? What would the buyer be wanting to do in order to make this the perfect property? So and then, of course, is that a price range that you feel comfortable with? How soon would you like to be settled into your new home? How much longer do you plan to stay in your current home? Who do you think would be the next person on your street to move get those referrals have listings, listings generate more listings, just like buyer buyers can generate listings, especially if your buyer knows what specific area that when I moved to but they have no homes there on the market that are available? Boom, that’s money. So door knocking? Alright. How much do you think your home is worth? And how did you get that number? And what if any objections Do you think the buyers are gonna have about your home? The other one is, will you be living here while it’s in the market? Or will you have moved out by then? Or do you plan on staying at say, like an Airbnb or staying with a friend in order to make sure that your house that you know, if buyers come outside see the see the for sale sign outside, they can just hop right in without having to coordinate their listing agent, or their buyer’s agent calling me then calling you taking you out of work saying hey, can you leave Davis Monthan Air Force Base and come open your house, they’re already outside. So you know, don’t rush too much don’t get a don’t get a speeding ticket, but they’re outside and don’t you want your house to sell, it can be a lot it’s very, very, it can be very frustrating. So it might be worth taking a week or two. And making sure that you don’t have the dogs in the house and it’s clean one time and that way. It’s just show ready for the next two weeks. The next question, what are the best selling points of your home? What questions do you have about the listing process? And then you want to mail them, depending on the timeline, right? Say they want to meet tomorrow, I’m not going to be mailing them. I’m just going to bring them my five star reviews, my home selling guide why to work with me, essentially, why you want to fall in love with me to be able to fall in love with me because you want me to sell your home. When I come over on Friday, say Are you prepared to live with me at that time? This is a question that I never really felt too comfortable with. But now I realize I need to ask it. And I’ve been asking it the last couple of times. And it is it. I don’t know why I was scared of that question. I thought it was too strong, but it’s direct. So you need to ask them when I come over on, you know, Thursday that we just decided next week? Are you going to be able to list with me at that time? Guess at that point, you’ll be able to see their actual reaction? If they’re serious about listing? Or if they’re not, will all the decision makers be present. And that’s when you look at the title and say, Hey, will you and your brother and your sister and your aunt and everyone else is on that owns this property? Will everyone be at the appointment because everyone needs to sign? And then the day of the day that you meet them before meeting them, create a video outside of their home and say, Hey, this is hey, it’s Emily Garson, what’s up guys. This is one of my clients that are that are potentially bringing their home to the market soon. If you’re looking to live in this community of bear Canyon hills in Tucson, Arizona, send me a message because this home isn’t for sale yet. And then save it. And during your listing presentation, which I’ll show you later. says show it to them say this is something that I recorded and with your permission, I would like to send this to my database. I’ve already started working for you. And it’s like Whoa, no other listening agent that came to my house already did that. And this agent isn’t shy to get on camera. She’s gonna do whatever it takes to sell my house. So, then the day that we meet, take a photo of the property the questions that I need for the listing agreement, what uh, of course, this agreement is going to be slightly different depending on your on where you are, but what appliances are going to are you going to be bringing with you what will be staying make sure you you don’t want to be you don’t want to have to end up paying for a fridge. Luckily, I’ve never had to do that. But uh, hey, I’m gonna say Never Never. So all right, it’s not doesn’t paper. You want to make sure the list price that you give them the comps. And the commission. Of course, now commission is so you know what’s going on with commission. So make sure that you are providing enough value to where they are comfortable with that. And of course, if they’re dual agency, you’re gonna need to have them sign that I do end up reducing my commission if if we do dual agency. And of course, we have questions on our on our listing agreement that says do you consent to signs? Do you consent to marketing? We’ve never had anybody say no. Do you authorize that we use a keysafe that will allow me to open up the lockbox, etc. Just follow follow, I won’t go too much into detail with that specifically, but just pretty much ask them go through the listing agreement with them. That’s pretty much what that bullet is. Email the sellers, about the pre appraisal. So these are the steps to take before and during the appraisal appointment. So you can maximize your home’s value, therefore increasing the likelihood that the transaction is going to go smoothly. And an appraiser is just an opinion. But they’re going to be doing some extensive research on the comps and the condition of your property. So I always tell my sellers to stay if they’re able to be at the house with the appraiser. Perfect do it. Because there but also give them give the appraisal give her her space. But you’re going to hand them the piece of paper of all the updates that you’ve done what you love about the property. And that way, if the appraiser has any questions Who better to answer that then though, then the sellers themselves, I have found that to be really, really good. It’s worked out it’s worked out really well. And then of course, just very simple exterior, you want to start keeping in mind that you need to mow your lawn, you need to pull your weeds and not say that the HOA is doing it for you for free. You need to put away any toys or you know tools like a trip the appraiser, I’m kind of getting like a little ahead of myself here, but the interior, the access, the comfort, these are just things that I already want them to start thinking about, hey, I haven’t even had the listing yet, but I’m already giving you homework, I’m thinking ahead, that’s what I’m showing them. So keep your children and your pets out of the appraisers way. And of course give them the list of upgrades that you’ve done. Anything you know can be Hey, I painted this at you know, anything that has shown that the sellers care about the property. Then, like I mentioned before, get the listing presentation that’s just on this website KV core, or wherever you get your listing presentation, it’s just called when the listing and then create for seller, and then you input the address and you click enter. That’s it, it’s as easy as that with with exp. I’ve never done anything else, it’s worked for me and it works great. So then you want to bring the following printed documents with you. This is where it depends on how you want to do it. And also depends on who your audience is. You might not want to go fully digital. If you’re selling 55 Plus home or you know homes in a 55 plus community, you might want to go digital if you’re selling you know and millennials home or you might just want to get the wet ink signature for the listing agreement and then do the rest later. However you want to do it that I will leave completely up to you. Because I have found that I brought every form in the beginning every form on paper because I just wanted to make sure that we could just take a photo easily scan it send it to my TC start getting ready. But signing all of the all the paperwork in person t know how tired the seller is, you might not realize how tired they are because you’re pumped. Your adrenaline is going you’re like oh we just got this listing and the sellers like oh my god, there’s another forum. Why did I choose even sell my house? You know, like, no get get in, get out. And believe them wanting more. So then tell the seller to call their insurance company and get a clue report. You want to start that immediately. Again, I’m not sure if this is just for Arizona or for all 50 states. But make sure you get that insurance list with the last five years or as long as as as long as they have owned the property because they’re going to provide that to the buyer within five days of being under contract. Ask the seller if that if they have any prepaid HOA and asked if they can get it back. Sometimes people will prepay the HOA they forget that they sell the property they lose, you know, they lose the property to sell the property and they’re like, oh my gosh, wait, I spent I just like lost $500 on prepaid HOA. So see if they can get it back. Or if they can’t get it back then at least incorporate it to the negotiations. Maybe get another extra $500 or the equivalent amount in you know, less closing costs or higher purchase price, whatever you want to do. Pre qual the sellers, ask them, why are there selling? Ask them? What’s their plan B, this is again, this is in case you maybe didn’t ask them beforehand what was on the checklist? I hope you’re still staying with me if you’re if you’re liking this, please give this video a like if you’re watching this on YouTube, if you want these checklists, text me 914-318-4918 I’m Ally, the agents on all social media. And let’s continue on. Oh, or text the word checklist 25203412552. So when you’re looking at the title commitment, look at who’s the seller is that? Is it the same as who we thought it was? There was a lot of fraud going on. There was a lot of fraud, so you don’t want to waste your time on a fake seller. And then Zillow, this is so so important, because this is going to help you leverage that one listing for more listings later on. So take a screenshot of the Zestimate. Yes, I’m saying Zestimate. And no, I’m not saying that that’s accurate. But take a Zestimate screenshot of that the house that you’re about to list, because you want to save that for your records for later. Because in case you didn’t know already, if you take a screenshot of it, your as soon as you list the property, the Zestimate is going to change. So you want to keep that typically lower amount as proof. And then after fast forward to after you sell. You want to take another screenshot of the Zestimate then after he sold the house as far as what the house is worth according to Zillow, and that is bragging rights all day every day you to to do it a step above, you want to do the same thing for all 100 neighbors of that. Have that listing 100 200 300 Have your VA do this take a screenshot of the Zestimate of all of the neighborhood neighbors in the area before you go live. With that listing. Say you know the house is 480,000. And then after you sell it’s now 492 boom that is perfect, perfect mailing stuff to mail or door knock or just talk about say, Hey, I sold the house on 123 Main Street, your you being here at 124 Main Street, just by me selling Bob’s house next door, your property increase $12,000. Like that is a great foot in the door in order to get the listing. Okay, then you want to email your buyer database with a subject line. I’m about to go meet a potential seller I got this from Tom Ferry, and their conferences and in the body of that email to your to your buyers. You want to say I can’t share too much yet, but I’m about to meet up with a potential seller who’s thinking about listing their home. What I can tell you is that homes like this usually or typically sell for above ask in just a few weeks. Of course we used to say days but now it’s no longer days at least here in Arizona, it’s not. If you already know that you want the details reply with V IP, boom, what are you going to do once you send that email once whoever responds or you can also post it on social media, whoever responds, put them in your Cavey core, put them in your CRM with a specific hashtag or tag, I would do VIP or I would do VIP palisade or VIP you know street name, and then remain in strong contact with them because that is a buyer so and if you don’t work buyers, then refer it out. Okay, then the day of the listing presentation, what you want to bring with you calendar, like a printed out calendar, or at least like it again, depends on who your audience is, maybe if they are more digital than just your computer, it’s fine to show them the calendar. Because you want to reverse engineer when you want to be listing. You want to print out your Zillow reviews, your Google reviews your your business card. If you do business cards, I don’t do business cards, the CMA, the MLS input sheet, again might be different your area and the folder for them to keep it if it’s branded even better, and the copies of the signed contracts. Along with the seller net sheet, I leave a couple of different seller net sheets. So one is if I leave three. So one is kind of where I’m what I’m thinking that the house is going to be at depending on what they’ve already told me over the phone. Or if I if I’ve already seen it via FaceTime or zoom, and then the second one is going to be a little bit lower. And then the third one is gonna be a little bit higher. They don’t want to make it too high. It’s I don’t want to get their hopes up. And I will never want to be the agent that says oh, I can sell your property for more than the other listing at that than the other agents so that they could because I don’t ever want to set anybody up for dinner. appointment I will I’m a straight shooter. Hey, if I don’t think it’s gonna go that high, I’m never gonna lie to anybody. But okay, next, have the sellers fill it out completely Of course. Then you want to go on ESP Marketing Center and create the digital media post it’s um it’s free on easy marketing center I’m sure your brokerage probably as the same thing to just go there, create some digital posts or maybe hire a virtual assistant to do it. And then you want to add the YouTube video link to the link tree if you have a link tree saying hey, new, you know, you just want to start promoting it digitally. Already with like the the listing presentation, follow your MLS rules. Of course, if you have any questions, ask your broker, send the clue or the insurance to the TC and add that to the MLS. Because it’s even better if you know add everything to the MLS. And then remember that you’re going to be their agent for free until they tell me that they want to list with me. So I’m providing value value value, I’m saying hey, this is what you get when you list with me. And it’s okay at that point, if they say you know what, we will be live with another agent, because I know that I that we probably weren’t going to be a good fit, there was something in there. And I always ask, you know, always ask, Hey, you know, is there something that I could have done? Is there something that we didn’t cover that I should have covered more, I’m looking just to just to improve. And sometimes they’ll tell you sometimes they’re they’re too shy, and that’s okay, you know, it’s fine, you can’t win them all, there’s so much more business to go around than to dwell on one listing, although it hurts, you know, like, I will not discount the fact that it hurts, especially maybe if you really thought that you were going to get it. But just take that effort and double down with this checklist. This checklist will show you how to double down and get even more listings out of it. So again, the more you have in the pipeline, the less emotion you’re going to have, if you end up losing a listing, so keep your pipeline Hi, baby. Alright, then the last portion of this side of the segment is schedule a day with the sellers. So when you the videographer can create some videos. So if you have a local videographer, perfect if not, if you have a spouse, perfect, that works too, it doesn’t need to be professional. In fact, the more professional looking it is, the more polished it is, the less real it is, the less people can can actually relate to it. So and I also I do videos of me, it’s not just the property, but I have my face on there, again, my branding, and you can put it on YouTube, you can throw YouTube ads behind it, you can do a Facebook ad behind it, you can use that, throw it into a QR code, send it to the flyers, send it as flyers, to the neighbors and get more listings that way. Then the day that was the presentation, I’m gonna do this listing presentation. Well, I’m not going to do the listing presentation, I’m going to tell you what is on my checklist. And then I think maybe that’s where I’m going to end it. Maybe we’ll see we’ll see also, for the future, if you’d like me to just do one street shots or like all throughout the entire checklist, let me know I’m here for it. I would love to hear your feedback, put it in the Apple podcast review or Spotify review, for keeping it real. We want to hear from you. I do want to thank you for all the positive reviews that you’ve left so far. I really appreciate that. So yeah, five star review, please do it for DJ. Alright, the listing presentation, our crew within exp has access to something called the locker room nation. So we all have our logins and this has like hundreds and hundreds of videos. Ask your broker in case you don’t already have one, but I’m sure you have you have access to some sort of Google Drive or something like this, where you have access to watch actual listing presentations, buyer presentations, you know, anything, etc. So that way you can just get in the mind in the mind flow. That’s not the word in the mindset. That’s the word of the listing presentation. So review it, maybe hop on some podcasts, listen to other episodes of this podcast, have maybe like a potential listing agreement or listing presentation of what it’s like, hype yourself up, do a couple of push ups, you know, get the blood flowing because you want to show up with energy. And maybe I said that because I would I’m more attracted. I think people are more attracted to people with energy. But not everyone is I am not everyone’s cup of tea and I get that you know, if I were to show up with listening as a listing agent to get a potential listing with a seller that was not me you know, that was very easy or or very like, you know, we wouldn’t get along. And again, that’s okay. There’s an agent for every one So be yourself. This is me so this was this was a wham Okay. Review the listing presentation from the real estate Bible. This is this is the real estate Bible is a Google Doc that I have for my ESP downline. It’s like To now close, like 200 pages. Okay, so skip that. Ask for referrals. Of course, hey, do you know if anyone else is looking to this looking to sell on the street? Especially they’ve been there for a long time. They know the neighbors. I feel like now in this day and age, a lot of people don’t know the neighbors, which is crazy. But But yeah, it’s not just other sellers in that area is Do you know of anyone moving to any state? Do you know of anyone that you know, needs to upgrade their house? Or downgrade their house? Or Did anyone get a job transfer and they need to relocate than anyone else in the military that, you know, that’s PCs saying this this season? And then typically be like, Oh, no, I don’t at that point, you make it one step further to try to connect make that connection in their mind that does anyone you know, that’s recently had a promotion, or they plan on starting a family. So they want a bigger house now, job relocation, make specific, specific examples. So that way, they’re like, oh, my gosh, yeah, I forgot that hairy digits get promoted. Or maybe Harry did just lose his job. And he’s looking to downgrade his house. And you can help. Okay, next, go over the open house schedule. Not all sellers want open houses, some sellers want to open house every other day. So ask them what you know, this is depending on if you like to do open houses, if you want to do open houses, if you plan on having someone else do open houses, then perfect. But so this is whatever you want to do. And go start those dates, because you want to have those dates immediately. You want to start mailing the neighborhood, for the neighborhood only open house and you want to start mailing you know, advertising the actual open house, because the faster you can have those open houses put on online on the MLS, the more people you’ll get through. Then, of course, the clue report, again, at the end of the listing presentation, ask them, Is there anything that you have heard that we’re out of sync on? Or is there anything that you’re confused about? Is there anything you’re worried about? You want to make sure that anything that’s on their mind that they get off their chest? Because they’re gonna have questions, and you will probably have to ask this question at least twice. They might not feel comfortable. If you’re a stranger, they might not feel comfortable asking you, oh, man, well, we met with, we met with this other agent, this other agent brought us cookies. And they said that they would sell you know, they promised us X but they don’t want to tell you that because they’re just waiting for you to say that. So ask them, hey, is there anything that maybe another agent said that you would like to go over? Because there might be some that we didn’t even cover and I love to show you what we do. So make sure that you’re talking like honestly, to them about that. If they are working with another agent, or if they’re interviewing other agents, what has the other agent done that I haven’t already gone over? Not if they’re working with other agent that was a poor word to say poor wording to say that I do not I’m not in the business of stealing plus, again, only sets you up for failure. But I definitely been that person where there’s different theories of when to go into listing appointment, if the seller is going to be interviewing agents, some people want to go first, they want to get the foot in the door. That’s it, I will, you know, smash it. And they’re there, I’m going to leave with listing appointments. So that way, no one else, anyone else after me isn’t even going to have a shot. Some people want to be the last one. So they’re like, Hey, let’s go over all of you know, all of whatever, maybe they didn’t say that didn’t make you feel comfortable. I’ll show you how I can make you feel comfortable. And this is what I do in order to list your home. So different opinions on that. I don’t I’m not really persuaded either, you know, one way or the other. There are pros and cons to both. Because if you do bank on being the last one, and that first agent gets it, then you snooze, you lose, you know, but if you are the last one, and they still they are still thinking of that first one where it was like, Oh my God, that first one was so good. There’s almost like so what’s the opposite of like the recency bias, where they’re like, oh, they they’re glorifying that first one, even though it could have been the same as the last one. And it may psychology in there. You choose which one you want to you want to do. But you just want to make sure that you cover everything that maybe other agents have covered. So yeah, and use the pricing structure if you do not have a tiered package for sellers create one now. I have one for my exp downline and everyone uses it. That’s how we get 8% listings. So again, it’s think about what like, think about this, if you were a seller, what would blow you away? What would you pay extra for in order for people to market your property and then see what’s realistic, see what you what you can do and create three different tiers or maybe two different years or four. But at least that way, psychologically, when you go to a listing appointment. Instead of them thinking should I choose ally, or should I choose Mark instead of that If you’re thinking, Oh, should I choose Ali’s bronze package, Silver package, or gold package? You know, it’s a different way of thinking in the BiggerPockets world or like investing world, instead of saying, Hey, this is my this was my offer, take it or leave it and stand you say, Hey, this is my cash offer. And and this is my financed offer. Which one would you like? So that way they’re like, oh, it’s instead of yes or no, it’s do I choose a? Or do I choose B, I love the tiered structure, again, this, I’m only giving that out to those that join my crew. They have it and it’s working well, for them, they’re getting 8% listings. But it’s not hard, you know, like, just think about what, what extra things you can do, add it to your middle package, and then add even more to your to your 8% package. But you have to bring in the value, you know, anyway, so if you ever want some more trainings on that, I do that all the time. When you get the listing, you know, when you get the listing, if you get the listing, when you get the listing, tell your virtual assistant and this is where I say take have your virtual assistant or you I guess but hire someone else out, get your kids do it. Get your kid to get the list or title company to get the list of all 100 or 200 homes nearby. Before you go live right. Take the screenshot of the Zillow Zestimate take all the Zestimate values, save them in a folder. You’re going to need this later on. And when you walk the property Oh yeah, well, we’ll leave it here right after this walk in the properties. This is a checklist that I created because I always forgot to check the year of the H vac every single time every time I leave the house but I don’t I forgot the year of the H back in the year the water heater. So now that’s part of the checklist. Check the vents ask them if they’re gonna get new vents installed or filters. That’s an easy fix right like vents can look so ugly and it can change it can change the the look and feel of a property. But just popping up a new vent and just changing the filter can make a world of a difference. Especially if it goes from yellow to white. And then of course the number of bedrooms. If the owner changed it, make sure that you are not advertising a property that’s that was say a five bedroom as a five bedroom if they changed one of those bedrooms into a den say they turned you know a closet or they got rid of a door or anything like that. Just make sure that you are aware that sellers might be able to might be changing some stuff around a five bedroom when they purchased it might not be a five bedroom when you’re selling it. So I think this is where I’m going to leave it off. If you have been enjoying this. Thank you so much. i Please please please give DJ keeping it real podcast a five star review, letting them know how these checklists have been helping you again, I’m sure I’m sharing everything that I have with you. So if you want a copy of these checklists, text, the word checklist to 520-341-2552. My name is Ali, the agent on all social media that is a Li and that’s it. I’ll see you on the next one. And until then, stay safe.

Hubert Johnson a Tax Attorney with Guardian Tax Law talks about how he got into tax law and why he decided to stay in this lane. Hubert discusses tax liens and what realtors need to know on this topic. Hubert also talks about property seizure and how important it is to get valid information in order to avoid it. Last, Hubert talks about property protection. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Hubert Johnson can be reached at (520) 526-9850. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00If you’ve been a realtor long enough, you’ll run into the situation where your buyer or seller can’t buy or sell because of a federal tax problem. We’re going to show you what to do in those situations. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show and in just a moment, we are going to be speaking with tax attorney, Hubert Johnson. Before we get to Hubert, just a couple of quick reminders. If you are new to the show, we appreciate you thanks for tuning in. And the best way that you can help us continue to make more episodes is by two things tell actually three things, maybe three things to do. First, tell a friend I think of one other realtor that could benefit from these sorts of episodes and please share with them also support our sponsors. There are really the reason we can keep paying our staff and continuing to make as many episodes as we do. So please, we love our sponsors. Please love them back check out their products and services. And third, leave us a review on whatever podcast app you may be listening to us on or watching us on. We appreciate it. We read your comments and we make changes to continually improve for you. Alright guys, let’s get to the main event my conversation with Hubert Johnson. Today on the show, our guest is tax attorney Hubert Johnson from Guardian tax law in Tucson, Arizona. Let me tell you more about Hubert. Now, Huber Johnson has over 14 years of experience as a tax attorney. And in that time, Mr. Johnson taught graduate tax law at Baruch College, lectured to tax professionals in seminars and training across the country and has co written two books on debt tax debt resolution. Mr. Johnson launched Guardian tax law PLLC in November of 2019 and has assisted 1000s of individuals and businesses in dealing with IRS and state tax issues. Hubert has five children he’s married to Katie Johnson. His passion is coaching and officiating youth sports, mostly basketball and soccer, volunteering in his community and for His church. He loves history, sarcasm and helping people pay as little as possible in taxes, please visit his his firm’s website which is Guardian tax law.com. We will have a link to that. In the show notes we’re going to talk about specifically why you’re going to want to reach out to Hubert for either yourself or your clients also follow his follow his YouTube channel which is at Guardian tax law on YouTube, just search for Guardian tax law. We will also have a link to that in the show notes because they have some great content out there to learn Hubert Welcome. Welcome to keeping it real. Hubert Johnson 4:18Thank you for having me. D.J. Paris 4:19Oh, thank you. We I’m excited to this is a bit of a departure for for us I spend most of my time talking to top realtors. And I love when when when we have a guest opportunity that is a little bit outside of what we normally do, because I think this could really provide some excellent value to our to our listeners, but I’d love to learn a little bit more about you. As you know, we know you’re a tax attorney. So how did you sort of get into tax law? Was that something that you knew from from day one of of law school that you wanted to get into or how did you get there? Hubert Johnson 4:53I actually hated loss tax law in law school. I took a federal income tax And I ended up teaching it later. That’s what I ended up teaching. But I didn’t like it. And so my, it’s one of those things I graduated, took the bar and my wife ended up in the hospital for five months, life just went upside down on me. And so I needed a job. And I ended up applying for and working at a tax law firm. And when I first went in, I did the interview, and I was talking to my brother afterwards. And he’s like, he was asking me about, and I said, Well, I’m just helping people who haven’t paid on taxes, etc. I said, Hold the phone. Helping people to pay less in taxes is one of the most patriotic things you can do. And I fell in love with and I’ve done it ever since. D.J. Paris 5:42You know, I do I do like that. And I’ve always loved the expression, whatever side of the political spectrum that you fall on. i We are, you know, sort of em, we don’t we don’t have a political slant on the show. Certainly our guests can. Well, but you know, we are agnostic, I guess for politics, but I’ve always loved the expression. Nobody pays $1 more in taxes than they then they want to or that they that they ought to. Right. So nobody does that, regardless of whether you’re the wealthiest Americans or not. I think there’s something to be said that, that we all could, you know, we want to use the tax laws at our disposal to really make sure that we’re minimizing our tax exposure. And Hubert Johnson 6:24it’s across the spectrum. It’s all Americans that are impacted by the IRS. I don’t help people avoid taxes or high taxes, because then you go to go, you get to go to a criminal tax attorney, which isn’t me and you do not want to go there. But again, helping people wherever they are. realized and know what their rights and options are is really important. And my office manager makes fun of me. She says I always make people cry. But it’s from unburdening this huge burden that affects people dealing with taxes. D.J. Paris 6:55And we should also mention, I mentioned Hubert has taught at Baruch College in New York, I didn’t mention New York, but for those of you that aren’t from the East Coast, maybe aren’t familiar with that university, that is a very, very excellent and top tier university. So this is this is a very, very smart and competent man. And I’m excited that you’re here. Before we get into some of your actual specialties, around tax liens, and what you wish Realtors knew about, you know, the roadblocks or getting over some of those roadblocks they may run into with clients situations. Can we just talk for a moment about how about a realtors own specific tax situation specifically around how they’re compensated? And I know this, this isn’t exactly what you do. But can we just make a plead for our listeners to consider incorporating and actually exploring being paid as a, as a business owner versus just as an independent contractor? Sure, and Hubert Johnson 7:49this is pretty much falls into how do I not become or need Guardian tax law. So if you follow this advice, you won’t be in trouble with the IRS. And again, I love giving free advice out that helps people avoid these tax issues in the first place. Because it is amazingly stressful. Issue number one, net corporate get a business structure, some kind of formation if and the main reason for this is it protects your personal assets from any IRS debt, believe it or not, when you have a corporation, and if you incur liabilities under it, and you close it out almost all of the tax that under that corporation goes away with that corporation, that doesn’t mean you can open up one ein after another and just try to avoid it. But if something happens, economy goes bad, you have to close the business down and then reorganize in a different form. You can do that. And we close out business debt all the time, and it protects, it separates the business tax issues from your personal issues. D.J. Paris 8:50I have I have a great story or sorry that maybe it’s not a great, it’s actually kind of a sad story. But it’s a story that illustrates this. Just yesterday, I was with somebody that had owned a very successful brokerage, real estate brokerage here in town, he sold it, and the building that he had purchased 20 years ago, while this is more of a Chicago thing, but the taxes for the property taxes for that particular property went from this is not an exaggeration from 30,000 a year to 106,000 a year in one year now. So basically, you know, 300%, or whatever percentage that that would be. And any year he’d already appealed it, it was supposed to be 100. And like 40,000 He got it down to 106. So anyway, he was at a scenario now where to your point, he he’s like I’m just I can’t he was I’m just gonna give the keys to the to the bank at this point because I can’t obviously afford to continue that and because it’s in an LLC or however he has it structured. We’re talking about the same sort of situation. Hubert Johnson 9:48Absolutely. And it’s not just text and like you mentioned, yeah. D.J. Paris 9:50So yeah, so if if you and by the way, this isn’t really what Hubert’s firm does. But if you would like to incorporate if you are You know, I say for sure if you’re a full time practicing realtor, you really probably ought to, it sort of depends on income level and you’re your CPA should be able to determine when that makes sense for you. But Hubert also knows a lot of CPAs across the country, not only does he know them, he knows the good ones. And, you know, I love my CPA is do I know for sure that she’s one of the good ones? I don’t know. I haven’t gone to jail. So I’m hoping, but, but the truth is, I really I really don’t know. I mean, I love her and I’m probably never gonna leave her unless she screws up badly. And I do really like her but but the truth is, I found her on my own. And I think it’s a better a better way to go is to go through somebody like Hubert who who knows who the at least some of the good players out there. So reach out to him if you are interested in considering that because if you’re being paid just as an independent contractor, there’s a very good chance, again, depending on how much commission you’re earning a year that you could actually save in basically how it could work. The way that I have it structured for me is I am an employee of my own company, my my aunt Well, I’m not a realtor in the traditional sense, but if I were those Commission’s would be paid to my business and then I take a salary. And the Ivan S corporation and the government or the the feds are actually quite lenient about what I have to pay myself based on my overall income. Anyway, so talk to a CPA if you don’t have a good one. Reach out to Hubert he’ll connect you with somebody. But let’s talk about your specialty now, Hubert, so thank you for that. But tell us all about tax liens and what what Realtors need to know. Well, Hubert Johnson 11:34just real quick on that. estimated tax payments, if you work for yourself, etc. Business write offs, a good CPA will save you a ton of money if you’re using TurboTax. h&r block, sorry, not to knock them but you need. There are plenty of CPAs that are cheaper than those companies and will do a much better job. As far as my specialty, we work directly with the IRS, we’re on the phone with the IRS and state tax state taxing agencies every day. And one of the big reasons we work with love Realtors so much is that we can help people buy and sell property. And so we have realtors that send people to us say, Look, this guy owes so much, we will set it up in a consignment agreement. And what to help people buy once you get an installment agreement, they still need to qualify based on income to debt ratio. But once that establishment is set up, there are mortgage companies that will still finance a mortgage, as long as it’s in an installment agreement status. Once that’s done, they can purchase the home and then we can go back and renegotiate with the IRS doesn’t mean they’re stuck pick making that payment. So there’s plenty of times that we get them into a home. And then we change gears and do something better for we might wipe out the debt, we might do something else. But getting someone into a home makes some a huge difference for people. And it is so important. So D.J. Paris 12:59let’s start with the beginning. So a realtor has a client who would be a perfect a perfect client for somebody for your firm. Hubert Johnson 13:10So a perfect climate is someone that knows they have a tax issue and is willing to deal with it. And so they usually run into those issues when they go to refinance, when they go to purchase a property and someone tells them Oh, you have a tax issue, you need to deal with it before you can do A, B or C. So they come in, they want to get this address, they want to move forward, purchase a home, move forward, improve their lives through working with realtors in purchasing real property. And those those are great clients because they’re ready to take care of the issue. D.J. Paris 13:44And I remember let’s say 15 years ago, maybe 20 years ago there was a boom in the in the what would they call it the not tax reduction business but the debt consolidation business and, and that I see you smiling because that is that that was a very interesting business where there were a lot of non professionals playing in that space. Can you speak a little bit to that just because I know I heard a lot about that even just on news and radio and and all of that and how this is different from that. So Hubert Johnson 14:18debt consolidation really is people giving good financial advice helping people pay down their tax debt, you can get a lot of the same information from Dave Ramsey, or other financial professionals online. They’re not using any special licenses or skills to negotiate with the IRS. You have to be licensed with the IRS. You have to been having that experience to go in and do what’s called an offer and compromise a settlement. takes years of experience I’ve had over 300 accepted offers in one year alone. Me personally. And you’ll just the I think it was about a month ago we settled on $49,000 for 20 bucks. Your regular basis, we go as low as $20. If if the shoe fits, if you qualify, it’s an amazing service, we get one or two of those accepted every week. Unbelievable. D.J. Paris 15:08This is Yeah. So for those of you that are just going to, you know, a standard debt consolidation company, this is not really what that’s not really what they do, they may call your credit card company and try to negotiate for you or something of that nature, but they’re not going to have the licenses that are necessary to actually communicate with the IRS, with the feds and actually get something. Something done. And yeah, so that’s a fantastic suggestion. What else do should Realtors really understand about sort of the tax liens and, and you know, how you guys can fit in, so Hubert Johnson 15:43we can help people sell property, and that’s the other half of it is when they have a tax lien on their property. And they want to sell they can get rid of it. I had someone who interesting story. He was a third owner and a property. We went and dug into the taxes. He knew you owe the IRS, but he didn’t know how the debt was IRS tax that goes away after approximately 10 years. So we found out exactly when he needed to sell. We pursued it and made sure that debt fell off. He sold it he was able to walk away with that money. Wow. Simple. D.J. Paris 16:21That’s yeah, that’s incredible. Um, let’s talk about property seizure, because we know that that’s also an important topic that happens Realtors run into that all the time. Let’s talk about how to avoid that. And maybe how a realtor could at least begin to have a conversation with a client in that situation. Hubert Johnson 16:39So property seizures is something that I’ve never had an active client had their property seized, because you have to do a lot of things wrong to add property seats. I have had, I’ve stepped into cases where the other attorneys have done everything wrong, where they ended up going to tax court and losing. One guy charged him $25,000 To go to tax court and filed in the wrong venue or place. I still charged him the 25,000. No, that’s horrible. D.J. Paris 17:09No, I’m just laughing because of the absurdity of that. Yes, that’s yeah, no, Hubert Johnson 17:13but they had their their case was already before the Department of Justice. So here I’m dealing with this in federal court to give you an idea of where I am. And you know that the sale went through because they owed over there was over a million dollar home and they had a second home too. So that’s the very sympathetic situation. But I’ve stopped home cells that were with the DOJ as well. You don’t want to be before the DOJ. You don’t want to go to tax court and 99% of cases, you want someone that will attack that that get rid of it and preserve your assets and your property. There are ways to do that, without making it a 25 $50,000 case. Usually, you can deal directly with the IRS or state and address those issues. So if someone’s telling you, hey, we need you to go to tax court pay me 25 grand for it, get a second opinion. A lot of times if you do owe even if you have assets, equity and assets, you can settle or you can set up some kind of arrangement and just let that clock run or if the tax lien shouldn’t be there in the first place. So we’ve gone in and released tax liens one case where gentleman he partnered up with someone who was an ex con didn’t know it. And he embezzled money he put his name on property shouldn’t have had you’re shaking your head. So again, it was a giant mess. And you know, we went through and fixed it all up with the tax lien department. And one nice thing about the IRS, it’s not known for its efficiency. That’s sarcasm. D.J. Paris 18:41No, I’m laughing because I have I had Thankfully I’ve haven’t had any IRS issues. But I did actually just a funny sidebar. I I got a phone call years ago from the IRS and it was a gentleman he said, Oh, I need to you know you there was this one form for my business that I didn’t send in and I’d always heard the IRS will never call you. So if someone’s calling you it’s not the IRS. And I went play sounds like the IRS. He’s just asking for this one form that I don’t know why a scammer would want that. And sure enough, no, he really was with the IRS and he really did need this one particular form and and I faxed it over to him and he was he was actually here locally in Chicago so but most of the time the IRS I don’t think calls but but they do call once in a while or at least they called me and we got it resolved and it wasn’t it wasn’t a big deal. But but you’re right the efficiency of it. I think they were five years late I didn’t even know I owed this particular document and they called me five years after the fact and that’s why I got really nervous because I thought well that this doesn’t sound right. The guy goes everybody thinks I’m not who I am you can look me up I’m really the guy I worked on at the you know building a flatbed building downtown it was it was really more funny than anything but but for the first five times he called me I just deleted the voice and I’m like this is obviously a scam and no it was actually URL, but great point. So, so if if somebody is worried about property seizure, that’s when when they should reach out to you and just sort of get this get see what the options are. Is that Is that fair? Well Hubert Johnson 20:13call us right away. Because most situations can be saved and fixed. But what I was gonna say it’s about the efficiency. If you need to sell a property, the IRS actually will jump on it because they’re getting money from the sale of the property. Sure, well, we can within 30 days, we can help with the sale property getting a payoff letter from the IRS or lien subordination, or subrogation, that’s, you know, fancy terms for it, but allow for the seller property, even if the IRS isn’t going to get any money. So there’s a taxing department that is the most responsible department of the IRS, and you can jump on these cases and get it resolved. But as far as seizure, usually, like, everything’s going the wrong way. We’ve saved homes, we’ve saved properties for people heading in that direction. But again, they’re not doing everything wrong. They’ve got bad advice, or they don’t know what to do. And I have a client that I actually had to fire recently, about a year ago, because they were doing everything wrong. They had a rental property, that one they didn’t tell me about. Don’t tell your attorney, which they’re there to represent you that you have attorney client privilege, you can tell them pretty much everything about where your bodies are buried. But so they didn’t tell us about that they tried to hide it from the IRS, the IRS found it because they see most things. They tried to put it in a trust after they knew about the debt, which is a problem. Sorry, hit the wrong button. The trust was invalid anyway. And then they blew off the IRS. Ironically, we got $400,000 to, you know, that went away and expired in their case, and they owed about 800,000. But they still had this property that didn’t didn’t want to disclose. So the IRS went and now the notes on the door and started taking all of their renters payments. So they were moving to seize the property, they sent them notices to appear for summons. So they were being summons. And if you don’t appear to those you can have an A warrant issued for your arrest. So again, doing everything the wrong way. And eventually we terminated with them and said, Look, you’re not listening to us. And you’re going to end up in a criminal case. And so we’re this is the strongest way we can warn you. But listen to your attorney, listen to a good attorney, if you’re not sure, get a second opinion. But you can save most properties I’ve had people call me when I was just coming in to seize accounts, seize property and be able to stop it. As long as it’s not too late. If it’s too late, you might have to contact a bankruptcy attorney which again, they’re worse than we are. D.J. Paris 22:55So I’m curious for the majority of your clients who are dealing with a real estate sort of tax situation or tax lien rather on real estate? Is it more often investors who these are invest in best investment assets? Or are they more primary residences, just out of curiosity, Hubert Johnson 23:16there’s some investment property, but it usually not an investment group. So it’s usually an individual that has different properties that they’ve invested in rentals. We do a lot where we protect primary residences. The interesting thing about rentals if you’re using it to produce income, you can protect that from the IRS and even do an offer and compromise and wipe out that’s if it’s producing income for you. It’s seen as a mini business. So having rental property that’s actively being used, can really help serve you and we can protect that for you. D.J. Paris 23:48Yeah, that’s a really important point. If it’s making money, there’s, there’s that’s a good thing. And of course, that’s what investors are looking for. Is that positive cash flow. Also, I want to talk about property protection. Like, when will the IRS I know like come after a property that’s that’s encumbered or in a business? You know, and how can What do agents need to know about that? Hubert Johnson 24:16So I’ve never had someone come to me where I helped them, they listen to me and they actually had property seized. The main reason is, if you do it, right, you produce the documents you work with the IRS. Again, they’ll give you bad information. It’s It’s It’s always fun dealing with them. But when I step in our case, I’ve had plenty of times they told me Look, why are you here, this or that? A month or two later, they’re seeing a completely different tune. Oh my gosh, you’re making my job easy. It’s like Yeah, cuz I don’t want you looking too closely at my client. So we work with them for the benefit of our clients wrap up the case. That’s the main thing you have to work with the IRS. Putting your head in the sand is not a good strategy. And that’s the worst case scenario. I’ve had too many people hire me or others, and then ignore them. And things don’t go well, because the IRS just ratchets up, they’ll ratchet up the pressure until it’s easier time. And if it comes to seizure, you’ve gotten a lot of bad advice, call us, we can jump into it and usually stop it, but have a little horror story if you want to hear it. Love to. So this isn’t real property, but someone that I owned a car lot, who came to us and we were going to charge him seven grand on the spot to start. And I called the IRS spoke to the revenue officer. And he told me, there’s nothing you can do to save this client. They had been trying to get the seizure payment paperwork, process, and they have to send it to their attorneys. And you almost never deal with IRS attorneys. And he had been waiting months for and he told me as soon as that comes back, it could be Monday, it could be a month from now. I’m going in with a fleet of tow trucks. And I’m going to cut open the gates and just haul all of those cars off of his lawn. And I said, Well, that’s lovely. You know what, what do I say? I’m like, Okay, well, thanks for being straight with me. I called the club. Don’t hire us. You need to hire a business bankruptcy attorney right away to save your property. And I asked him, Are those cars even yours? He said, No, they’re on consignment? Oh, do you give that information to the IRS? said well, he asked for it. But I haven’t gotten around to it. So he called the Business Bankruptcy Attorney called me back and said he wants $20,000 I said pay the man. Don’t wait, don’t don’t blow off the IRS. It’s always better to deal with it and get good advice and deal with it head on. D.J. Paris 26:41Yeah, you know, it does seem to happen to car some mechanics, or I’ve heard of this happening very, it’s not that uncommon, where the business goes bankrupt, the cars they were working on, or the cars that are on consignment at the time. Get all wrapped into the debt and and it’s my brother in law lost lost a car that way. Anyway, so So yeah, it’s it’s yeah, that makes perfect sense that, that, you know, you’d want to step in pretty pretty seriously at that point and make sure that, you know, doesn’t all go go to pot. Hubert Johnson 27:17So success story. D.J. Paris 27:19Let’s Yeah, let’s Hubert Johnson 27:20hear. So this isn’t dealing with real estate, this gal actually got prosecuted for fraud. So pretty serious case, caught prosecuted by the DOJ owed as close to a million dollars and had quite a few rental properties in Chicago. So we tried to come in and look at it in a holistic manner. She didn’t know what was going on with the rentals, which ones are profitable, which ones weren’t, we lay that off or out for her got a bookkeeper got a CPA, and were able to look at and we actually sold off some of the properties that weren’t profitable, consolidated her holdings, so she was making money off of it got rid of other debt that was just killing her and not helping her. And she was able to turn around and set up an installment agreement and to deal with this and stop all the collection, stop all the seizures, and came out of it with all the properties she still wanted intact. Wow. D.J. Paris 28:14And so when you work with somebody who has a million dollar situation like that, and obviously every situation is unique, but what what could that be whittled down to when you when you’re dealing with the IRS? Could it be whittled down to zero? Or is it typically a percentage of it that? How does the IRS typically look at those kind of things. Hubert Johnson 28:34So that’s the you’re talking about the offering compromise. So it’s kind of like Cinderella shoe, if your financial situation fits what they’re looking for. It’s an amazing offer, we do it all the time I had. But if your situation doesn’t match, so again, I have an actor. And he’s making a couple million a year and he owes a couple million in taxes. He’s paying it down, he’ll pay it all off eventually. But he doesn’t qualify for an offer and compromise. It just makes too much money. Yeah, the other the gal that I was talking about, she had assets, she had rentals, and she was making well over 100,000 a year at her normal job. She just made too much money didn’t qualify. On the other hand, I just brought someone in, he has a lot of bills, but he’s making 17 grand a month. And he might not qualify for an offer, but we’re gonna put him in a hardship status where he doesn’t have to pay anything to the IRS for at least a couple years. And We’ll reevaluate a situation once it becomes a little more established. And consider those other options. So if you’re making, even if you’re making 10 to $15,000, it’s not automatic that you’re not going to qualify. Get a thorough review. I’ve had people one gentleman had a house. And this is an interesting real estate story. He had been told by a couple other tax attorneys that he didn’t qualify for an offer and compromise couldn’t do it. And then He even went on the IRS website plugged in his numbers. They told him no. He was referred to me by his parents and said, You need to call this guy he called me up. We went through his numbers. And by the numbers, he didn’t qualify, but I said, Hey, let’s make a couple adjustments. He had a 401k with about 14,000. And he ordered $80,000 Simple. Tell me about your house and it was valued by Zillow. We know Zillow valuations are accurate. D.J. Paris 30:27It’s usually not but sometimes. Usually, I’m friendly with Zillow. So I’ve tried to toe the line there. But the the listeners know what they think about Zillow. Hubert Johnson 30:38Well, he went got a sonar evaluation or appraisal of the property. But this house was built in the 1880s, or 90s. Last updated in World War Two, he was there with living with a couple of kids married with a couple of kids, it had led piping through the house, the roof leaked, I mean, it was it was needed so much work to it, I don’t take the 401k to necessary parents to your home. So you don’t have lead piping in your house, at least fix up the kitchen, the bathroom basic stuff. And I said talk to your wife, see what she thinks she loved the idea. And we because we redid the evaluation, we took the 401k didn’t necessary Paris, which is allowable by the IRS, we were able to settle that for I think it was between six and 7000 wiped up $80,000. And he got to keep this house. Now, D.J. Paris 31:26when somebody went when something somebody goes through that particular situation, just out of curiosity, how does that typically affect credit score? Or does it not? How does that, you know, with the IRS, you know, is working on, you know, an agreement that you guys come to settle on? does, how does that affect things like Fico. And Hubert Johnson 31:48it greatly improves it, because it shows that this debt has now been settled. Got it, and it doesn’t report it anymore as a negative, that that’s not being paid installment agreements. Again, you still have this tax debt, but it shows that you’re making regular payments on it. So going in and setting up some kind of resolution. Not only helps your credit, but it also stops the IRS from coming after you because that’s the worst thing I get the calls people you know, my bank accounts got it cleared out, I just got hit by a toxin I didn’t even know about that’s, that’s typically what we see is people come to us when the house is on fire. We love it. When people come to us with questions, hey, I might have this issue, or I think I owe but they haven’t come after me yet. Great, we can set it up for you. So they don’t have to worry about the world crashing down. As we deal with this, we can prevent all of that as we go through most cases. D.J. Paris 32:38Wow. And we should also mention to another reason to consider anyone who’s having a tax situation over to Hubert’s firm is that a lot of times with some of the creative strategies, they have to, you know, work with the IRS, you know, there is sales of property that happen, certain properties get sold. So, Hubert has to refer business out to realtors from really all over the country because his clients are kind of from everywhere. So can we talk a little bit about how a realtor could connect with you in the event where they have the situation? What would be the, for one of their clients? What’s the best way they should they should reach out Hubert Johnson 33:17what call her main line at 520-485-7371, you can contact us through our website. But the best thing is just called we do a free consultation. So I’m a little old school, I feel people should actually have information before they start paying for services, etc. And especially with taxes. People want to know how much I’m going to how much is this going to cost me compared to how much I owe. So we do a free consultation for people put their mind at ease. And we’d like you said, I call people and I use different networking, networking resources to refer business out across the country. I would love to have realtors, we keep a list a contact list of who we can refer business to who do we know and who do we trust? D.J. Paris 34:02Yeah. Yeah, it’s a really, really important point. And we should also mention too, that you are you’re located in in Tucson but you’re able to work with, with clients from really all over the US because you’re dealing predominantly with the feds. That’s sort of my understanding. Well, Hubert Johnson 34:18we deal with the feds and we deal with most states. There’s only two states that we can work with. And believe it or not, it’s Oregon and Washington. D.J. Paris 34:28So if you’re in the Pacific Northwest, find somebody else. Hubert Johnson 34:31State taxes that we can’t deal with because they require that you be licensed in the state as a CPA or attorney. But we work everywhere else. Hawaii, Guam, Alaska, New York, New Jersey, Florida. We handle state taxes wherever they have income tax and where they have sales. We deal with sales tax issues, when needed as well. But as far as property, yeah, we refer business and all across the country and we help people All across the country. D.J. Paris 35:01I also wanted to I was curious, you’d mentioned that you’re, you’re speaking to the IRS really daily. And obviously, the IRS is a massive employer. There’s, gosh, I don’t know how many employees work at the IRS. But I should have looked that up ahead of time. But it’s a substantial number. And I think the number is increasing, if I remember correctly with the current administration, I think almost, yeah, doubling, right? So is, is, I want to say 100,000 people, maybe I can’t remember the number. But regardless, you are, you’re dealing with with a specific group there? How important is it to work with an attorney? Who does have relationships with some like you? Do you deal a lot with the same people at the IRS over and over? Or is there a reputation that gets built up between attorneys and an IRS for like, oh, you know, for easier, smoother transactions. Hubert Johnson 35:55So technically, we can’t legally say that we have special relationships. Yes. But as you work with them, you gain a reputation. Yeah. And I’m not going to say that I have certain IRS agents on a blacklist, that I might just hang up on them when I get them because they’re horrible. But, you know, again, any professional relationship, you develop a reputation. And so we I think we have a really good reputation. But especially when it comes to resolving cases, we know the local revenue officers, but we deal with people all across the country, the number one asset that we bring into it to the table, as we know how to get the things done quickly. We know how to force the IRS to move when they don’t want to move, because they can take years to move on some things. But we know how to maneuver through their bureaucracy, it is You wouldn’t believe they just added about three layers to their bureaucracy in the last couple of years. And one of my associate attorneys was just in here complaining about how ridiculous it is. And when you’re talking to the IRS, we tried to skip the line and go about three to four layers deep into their bureaucracy, the average person calling the IRS they get bad information, they get told the wrong thing all the time. And so when people are trying to help them out, you know, again, one of the key things that I hear all the time is to qualify for a mortgage, you have to have your tax returns filed. The IRS will tell you you have to go back and file 10 years of returns have you heard that? It’s wrong. It’s in their internal revenue manual, their regulations that they can only go back six years. And the only reason to file a return older than three years is to lower a balance that’s already been assessed. So you can’t get a refund more than three years old. And following more than six years, they can’t even demand that you do it. So you’re paying a CPA to do work that’s unnecessary. Ah, D.J. Paris 37:50that’s that is interesting, because I always heard that sort of seven year number or whatever that number is. Certainly not. Yeah, that’s very, very interesting. So anyway, for anyone out there who has client with a tax lien or any sort of tax situation, that they are nervous about, that they have a debt that they’re that they owe to the government. This is a great time, you know, to reach out to Hubert because this is going to help get them on the right track path to homeownership and, and just out of their tax situation. So Guardian tax law is the website and Hubert and his team are specialists in tax strategy, especially related to the IRS. So reach out to him, he is looking for great realtors to refer business too, as well. So please consider adding him to your professional network. We are very, very impressed with what Hubert we just to pull back the curtain a little bit. We do get requests almost almost every week from different PR firms that are representing law firms, we almost always pass on those because they don’t seem to always be a good fit for us. But we were really excited to speak with Hubert today. So please consider using him. He works with a lot of a lot of realtors, and he helps your clients. So reach out to him Guardian tax law is where you go also follow him on YouTube at Guardian tax law. We’ll have a link to that in the show notes. Hubert I very much appreciate you coming on today and talking have we made tax tax liens fun or at least more fun than they probably are in normal conversation. So I appreciate your your your candor, and I really appreciate you being so generous with this information. I know that you know not all attorneys are so forthcoming with you know, sort of free information. So I really do appreciate that I know our audience does as well. So on behalf of our audience, want to thank you both for coming on our show. And we also want on behalf of Hubert and myself. We want to thank the audience for coming to getting to the end of this episode. I really want to encourage our audience to do two things. Two things that will help out both Hubert and our show. Tell a friend Think of one other realtor that could use this information. Maybe they have a client with a tax situation. And it’s becoming a stopper for them doing any sort of transaction, the perfect reason to reach out to Hubert and his firm. And also, please leave us a review that would help us know what you like and what we can improve on the show and also helps us get in front of more people. So tell a friend and leave a review. We very much would appreciate that. As always. Again, Hubert, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time, and we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Robert. Hubert Johnson 40:32Thank you, DJ. It’s been my pleasure.

Matt McLennan with Kidder Mathews talks about how he got into real estate and why he chose commercial real estate as his specialty. Matt discusses the situation in commercial real estate at the moment. Matt describes the systems that he uses and how these help him scale his business. Matt also describes the payment structure in commercial real estate and points out how different it is from the residential real estate payment structure. Matt also talks about the impact of AI in commercial real estate and the importance of utilizing it. Check out Matt’s profile on LinkedIn. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Matt McLennan can be reached at 425.417.9566 and matt.mclennan@kidder.com. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00Have you ever thought about adding commercial into your business? We’re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and hosted the show and I have said that exact intro over 500 times. And I just wanted to say thank you to everyone listening right now because you’re the reason why we made it to 500 episodes. Also, please, please support our sponsors. They also help pay the freight that gets us to allow to have a staff and continue to produce these episodes. So please support the sponsors. Tell a friend about the show. And as always, please keep listening and let us know what you think of the show. If you want to leave us a review on whatever podcast app you may be listening or watching on now. Please do that we read every review and take your suggestions very seriously, because we’re always looking to improve and do a better job for you. But my guest today is Matt McLennan. He’s a commercial agent and he’s going to tell you everything that residential agents don’t know about what commercial agents do so let’s get right to the main event, my conversation with Matt McLennan. Today on the show our guest is Matt McLennan hitter Matthews in the Puget Sound area of Washington State. Let me tell you more about Matt. Matt McLennan specializes in industrial leasing and sales in South King and pierce counties in Washington. Since joining Kidder Mathews Matt has facilitated this is incredible over two and a half million square feet of sale and lease transactions with total consideration exceeding 250 million. He received Kidder Mathews big hitter award in 2021 and 2022, a coveted recognition given to the company’s top annual producers, we are going to have a link to Matt’s page on kiter.com, which is for Kinder Matthews. And also please follow him on LinkedIn, Matt McLennan, we will have a link directly to his LinkedIn profile. And you can see what he is all about there. But Matt, welcome to the show. So excited to have you. Thank Matt McLennan 3:41you for having me. I’m excited to be here. You have a great show here. I’ve been a longtime follower, so I feel honored to be able to get on. D.J. Paris 3:49Well, I am honored that you are here because we we never we never talked about commercial. And so I love that you’re here. And it’s funny, we actually we do get pitched a lot for from commercial agents, but commercial is so vast. And you know, you know, and I know there’s so many different sectors. So I really what I’d love to do today, at some point is really give our audience who are mostly residential agents, a better understanding of what is a commercial broker? Do you know specifically what do you do? Because obviously, there may be some opportunities there for our, our audience to maybe interact with you and pass business over. And really just get a better sense of the commercial world. I think it’s very mysterious. I live here in Chicago. We have a ton of commercial firms here. And I know people who work at those firms and I’m still a little confused about how it all works. My brother in law is a commercial agent down in Florida. I’m confused at what he does. So it’s I would love to demystify it a little bit to give our audience better awareness so that they can they can you know, better help their clients when those needs come up. But let’s start at the beginning. So tell us how you got into real estate and what Why? Matt McLennan 5:01Great question it for me, it was very much by happenstance, I happen to be working actually for a wine distribution company. So I started off out of college and an entry level sales position and was was selling wine at a retail level wine and spirits. It was it was a big national distributor. And so I bounced around cities and territories moving, I got into some management positions. And it was it was a great job, great industry really cool. And then here in Tacoma, where I live now, I mean, it was literally hanging out with some out of outside of work, friends who happen to work for my current firm, Kidder Mathews. And so I’m just like you mentioned, I knew nothing about commercial real estate, it was very, it was very mysterious. I didn’t, I didn’t know how it worked. I don’t even know. I mean, I understood that there were commercial buildings, but I didn’t really understand that it was an industry per se. And so in hanging out on the weekends with these guys, you know, I started learning about it and understanding what the industry is. And then I saw what working in that industry could look like. And I started to look at what my goals were long term and just kind of my options and decided, hey, if now if I’m ever going to make a switch, I’m going to leave the wine industry seemingly, now is the time to do it. So I just dove right in didn’t really know a whole lot, I found somebody lucky enough to mentor me a little bit and kind of show me the ropes more or less. And, and that was really how it happened. There was no grand plan, I just fell right into it. D.J. Paris 6:23You know, it’s funny, I have a kind of a similar background, I was working for Anheuser Busch right out of college in St. Louis, and I was traveling around the country doing marketing things for them, and did that for a few years. And then it just got to be just, you know, too much after two years of traveling nonstop and, and wanted to I wanted to put my roots somewhere. But so and then I just sort of happenstance turned into real estate, you know, many years after that. So I, I know it’s a lot of us enter this market. But I really have so much admiration for for those that go into commercial because with residential real estate there, there’s a pretty tried and true, there’s many tried and true systems to achieve success, that are predictable, and trainable and repeatable. And I don’t know, I’m sure there are systems as well, of course, for commercial agents. But it is a much more difficult path. And in my under my understanding and experience with commercial agents, I’m always impressed because I just find that to be a totally different world and a much less predictable world. And something that I think is just you know, commercial agents really, I think don’t always get their due. Because I think it’s just incredible. I had a client once who this is a million years ago when I was a financial adviser who worked for like Marcus and Millichap, I think, or one of those firms. And I was a financial advisor anyway. And I said, Well, what do you think your salary will? Or what do you what you’ll earn this year? And she goes, Well, if I close this one deal, I’ll make two. This is 20 years ago, she said, I’ll make 250k for the year, I was like, wow, she goes, I’ve been working on it for a year and a half, it may not close. I’m like, Oh my gosh, she’s like other if I do that, I’ll have no income. And I was like, Oh my god. So I have so much respect for commercial agents, because it is a feast or famine, sort of scenario, at least my understanding of it. But tell us about how you got in meaning once you got in? How did you think about growing your business? Or maybe better yet? How did you determine where you wanted to specialize? Because obviously, there’s a lot of different sectors for commercial. Yeah. Matt McLennan 8:27So what you characterize I’d argue, is very accurate. I’m very familiar with the residential market, I track it pretty closely, purely out of curiosity for the most part, but it also has some relation to what I do, but I’ll be the first to admit I don’t, I don’t try to go buy and sell houses. Anytime my clients asked me to sell their house, I send them to my buddy who’s a residential agent. He helped me buy my house. I mean, I could have done that contract legally, but it’s it’s they’re different. They’re very different. So that by the way, D.J. Paris 8:52I’m interrupting for just a second. Do you hear that everyone? He refers his clients to residential agents and vice versa. So let’s, let’s make sure we all have a matt in our in our network. I’m sorry, Matt, go ahead. Matt McLennan 9:06No, you’re fine. I think that’s really important because they are so different. And at the end of the day as agents, whether we’re commercial or residential, our purpose is to serve our clients. And if you’re not an expert in what you’re doing, how can you properly serve the client? That’s something I believe pretty firmly in. So you know, going back to what you’re saying, though, I mean, commercial is so broad, I look at just comparing again to residential, it’s buying and selling homes for the most part, right. And that’s not to oversimplify it, but that is inherently what it is. Right commercial. I mean, you have hotels and lodging, commercial general commercial space, retail buildings, multifamily buildings, office buildings, industrial buildings, outside land and agricultural deal. I mean, it’s just It’s vast right? And that’s a mystery to a lot of people is how does that work? How to different product types work together with each other? They’re, for me personally, I work in the Seattle market. And we’re, by all measures a large market. So picking a niche is really important. That was kind of one of your questions is what did I just How did I decide to specialize in what I do. And I get categorized as an industrial broker because I work on industrial buildings. So think Amazon distribution centers, Boeing, aerospace, manufacturing plants, and really everything in between those two, any any warehouse type building is really my forte. And then within their leasing, sales, ground up development of those buildings, investment transactions related to fully leased stabilized assets for people who want to buy a cash flow, right. So for me, I was when I got into this, I mentioned that I completely fell into it. And I didn’t really know where to start, but I kind of was just reading the tea leaves. And this was back in 2017. And that’s when I got into the industry. And this Amazon thing was already well underway, right? And I thought, you know, these goods being stored in warehouses getting shipped to people’s doors that doesn’t see ecommerce doesn’t really seem to be going away, and it’s probably going to keep growing. So if I can get into that space on the building side of things, that makes a lot of sense. So again, I kind of just took a leap of faith, I didn’t really I didn’t think about it that much. If I’m being honest, I probably should have done my homework a little bit harder. But obviously, it’s it seems like it’s been a good decision. I don’t I don’t regret it at all. So and then fast forward, you know, here I am, seven years later and still making it work. D.J. Paris 11:33Let’s talk about your sector because and my I am barely above the level of ignorant in industrial, but from the few people I know, in industrial, they say that it is a booming sector currently, compared to other sectors, like, obviously, office space has changed. And, and so and with, you know, distribution centers, like you’re saying everyone’s shipping overnight these days or two day shipping. And so there are the centers. So yeah, I don’t I don’t think I don’t think we’re going backwards in that distribution method. And, you know, Amazon just gets its hooks India, and then it becomes that’s, that’s my go to and so of course they need big, big center. So is that the case that industrials actually doing quite well right now. Matt McLennan 12:22It’s doing quite well, I think if you look across in similar to residential, the commercial markets slowing down, for sure. And it really is all tied to this interest rate rise. There’s other macroeconomic factors that are having their impacts, for example, the work from home, that whole deal going on is having a huge impact on office space has been having a huge impact. But then you look at the interest rate environment. I mean, there’s there’s, there’s, there’s things pulling the commercial market down in general, but industrial specifically, has been incredibly resilient. And I think the reason being if you go back to the Great Recession, and when we were coming out of that, and really things started to pick up kind of in 1314 15 era. That’s when our industrial market specific to Seattle and a lot of the core markets, which typically are like the West Coast markets, East Coast markets, Port centric markets, that’s a big one for industrial real estate, for sure. And all those markets started to take off in 15 and 16. And we kind of had the steady rise, steady rise. And then 17 1819 I mean, the curve really started to inflect. And things got crazy hot pandemic hit, everyone panicked, went right back down. About five minutes after the pandemic hit everyone realize, oh, man, we have to everything’s got to get delivered to our house. We can’t go out anywhere. We can’t do anything. So as quickly as it dropped, it absolutely skyrocketed. I mean, it was unbelievable. Nobody saw it coming until it actually got underway. So about three months into the pandemic, I remember June, from about March to June when everything was shut down. Everybody, including myself was like, what, what, uh, what did we do? I don’t know, I couldn’t figure it out. And then by June, I mean, everything in our market was pretty much just full ramp. And I mean, we ran on rocket fuel all the way up to the moon. And we hung out there literally until that first interest rate hike in early 22. And then that’s when it was like alright, we need to leave the moon let’s let’s come back down to earth. And so all things considered the markets actually very healthy. The the metrics are pointing in any given direction, depending on the day, but it’s been a good resilient sector of the commercial market. It seems like it’s going to continue in that direction with some ebbing and flowing. I anticipate. D.J. Paris 14:31Yeah, I had a friend. I have a friend who works at Kellogg and up in Michigan Battle. I think it’s Battle Creek anyway, doesn’t matter. But he he was up there and during the pandemic, same sort of thing. As soon as as the pandemic hit again, they were nervous what’s going to happen to in this case, they do a lot of breakfast stuff. And it turned out that that their their sales just went through the roof and so they were like Go Go Go and all systems like you said to the moon, and then then they had to start pulling back at, you know, once once reality started, you know, normalizing, but it was a it was an incredible run for for, for some some providers during that time. So, you know when it comes to working for so you are you are contracted by companies who are looking to expand or maybe, you know, move move or open new centers? Do you know, do you will you work nationally with a company? Or do you work exclusively just in your area? So if they want to open up something in, you know, the Midwest? Do you come out and participate in that? Or is that more of a referral at that point? Matt McLennan 15:37Great question it. The simple answer is yes, I do work on a national basis, I have several clients that oftentimes just given my reach and my network, I work with a lot of Washington based companies, but a lot of those businesses then do business all over the country. And so for me, Kidder Mathews, my firm, specifically, we’re a West Coast based firm, we have 20 offices up and down the coast and five states. But I participate in several networking organizations have strong broker relationships that I co broker with in other markets. So if one of my clients called tomorrow and said, I need help in battleground Michigan, then I call my contact there, typically, we would work it on some kind of probably co broker agreement, or I might share for the deal out to them if it makes more sense to do it in that fashion case by case basis. But yeah, really, I mean, I use your use your 8020 rule 80% of my business, I probably do here in Washington state specifically, but then about 20%, I might go elsewhere out of state, wherever, wherever my client needs help. I mean, that’s, that’s kind of what drives that conversation. Yeah, D.J. Paris 16:39and your and your clients are ideally clients that stick around and grow with you and continue to use you. And so maintaining that relationship is, obviously is the one of the most important parts of your business. And that, you know, really isn’t as critical for residential agents, even though residential eights agents certainly want to work by referral, and certainly want their clients telling all their friends to use them. But the commercial world is a little different, you really have to be a relationship manager over time to maintain those relationships. And I’m curious, I bet our listeners who are mostly residential could learn, maybe from you about maintaining those relationships, obviously, you know, when you’re doing a transaction, or you’re working with a client on a particular project, of course, you know, I know you’re, you’re doing a great job there. How do you think about it in between projects? Are you still staying on top of, you know, what’s going on with the client? How do you maintain that visibility? Maybe in between deals with that? Matt McLennan 17:39Yeah, great question. So you asked, you know, who are my typical clients? It’s anywhere from a small mom and pop business up to an Amazon, right? And, you know, huge fortune 500 company with massive commercial real estate footprint for their operating portfolio. And so and I actually have it you know, this and I don’t is I don’t know what the average transaction period is for residential real estate, you know, somebody buys a home on average, every I would bet it’s over 10 years, or maybe, maybe it’s five, you know, whatever it is, seven to 10 years. Yep. Yeah, there you go. So if you look at it, keep in mind on commercial, you’re my clients are businesses, and so businesses constantly, I mean, some businesses are steady, Eddie, but a lot of them fluctuate with the marketplace and what’s going on in the greater economy. So on any given day, they might need more space, they might need less space, they might need to expand to a new location, whether that’s in state or out of state. So staying in front of them and maintaining that relationship is really, it’s paramount, because they make decisions a lot more often. Now, I’ll tell you candidly, like that example you gave of your friend 20 years ago, my transaction time, I mean, I’ll be often working on transactions for 234 or five years before I see a payday. This is kind of how it goes. So you gotta keep your pipeline full. And make sure that you you manage that accordingly so that you can learn how to survive. Right. But to your question, I mean, staying in front of them. What a business is care about what’s going on in the economic environment? What are their competitors doing? What’s going on in the neighborhood in the city is in the markets that they’re operating? Right, so that they can make informed decisions, because most of the time these business owners, they are experts on their business, they’re not experts on on their real estate, and that’s why they hire us to help them with that component, rightfully so. So I see it as my job and my duty to just keep them apprised on anything that’s relevant to them. So I’ve built at least just in my personal business, a lot of processes that allow me to track relevant information specific to my clients, ensure that I’m getting in front of them in a timely basis. And also just from a timing standpoint, tracking regular check ins and it’s more than just picking up the phone saying hey, how you doing, you need any help. Right? Has to be a little more strategic than that. But that but that is really the gist of it is is staying in front of your clients and giving them timely information. So then you’re actually truly adding value. Because if you’re not adding value, then you’re you’re wasting their time because they’re their business owners, they’re busy. They don’t have time to just talk to everyone all day. So it’s all about adding value. That’s, that’s kind of the forefront of what I try to do with every touchpoint. And with all my clients. Well, yeah, I D.J. Paris 20:21think that makes perfect sense. And let’s talk about some of those systems. So how will you go over some of those with us? You know, how do you think about systems? How do you automate or semi automate your business to be able to scale it, we’d love to hear about whatever, whatever comes to mind there. Sure. Matt McLennan 20:39So I’m a solo practitioner, a lot of commercial agents will create teams, a lot of people act solo, too. I think there’s pros and cons to both. So I operate solo, I have a client services coordinator who works for me specifically. So she helps me with a lot of the back of house efforts related to just administrative tasks, getting my clients information on a timely basis, scheduling a lot of the call to stuff that can get lost in the minutia, right, if you’re too busy running around doing 100 things at any given time, which, which sometimes I am. So I think that’s really important. But I think what’s more important is I remember when I got into this business, one of my mentors said to me, Matt, figure out what you’re good at, and figure out what you’re not good at. And anything that you’re not good at, go partner with the people who are good at that part partner, right? Don’t try to do everything yourself. Pay pay vendors pay people to do what you’re not good at, if if it’s a brokerage assignment, that you’re not an expert in, go partner with that person and share your commission, half your commission is well worth getting the job done and getting it done. Right. So that that’s always resonated with me. So I think I take a little bit of a different approach than a lot of brokers, because as agents, I mean, we’re only as good as our next commission, right. And so to a certain degree, I think a lot of us and I’ve been guilty of this at times, too, I’m not perfect, but you’re hesitant to spend money on systems and paying experts in anything, right. And I’ve tried to take more, especially in recent years, the opposite approach of build my business by recruiting and getting all the systems in place. So you know, what does that really truly look like? I mean, these days, there’s a million software systems out there that can help you with deal flow and contact management CRMs, automating processes, I mean, you name it, I could go into way too deep of a dive on that these days that that conversation, of course, is AI, which I’m certainly not the expert on AI. But I firmly believe that it is going to have a massive impact both on commercial and residential real estate, it already is, it’s already happening behind the scenes. And a lot of people don’t realize that. But that’s going to be a big one. But but to sum it up pretty simply, it’s just figure out what your processes are. And figure out you can’t always automate them, but you can at least organize and streamline them so that when you’re working on 1020 30, whatever it is transactions at a time, things don’t get lost in the mud, right? I mean, you can stay organized. And, and really, I mean, if you think about what makes a client unhappy, it’s usually when something slips through the cracks, or a mistake is made or a deadline is missed. If you can build your system and come up with a process that works for you. Great, everybody does it differently. You got to figure out what works for you. D.J. Paris 23:23Yeah, agreed. I, you know, I was thinking being that you have business owners as clients of everything from small to enterprise level. And that one of the ways that came to my mind, and this is such, you know, you mentioned LinkedIn. And I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. LinkedIn is, is the primary place where where Matt, you know, puts his social media effort. And I went, Oh, now of course, like, of course it is. Because it’s a business setting. It seems like, you know, you could probably do some fun things on Instagram, too. And I know you’re on all the social platforms. But LinkedIn certainly makes the most sense. So I imagine that is probably a great possible place for you also to prospect or at least do research on companies see what’s going on with clients of yours. And in the news, I imagine LinkedIn is probably a pretty great resource for you, Matt McLennan 24:15I would argue, yes, it is. And it’s arguably the best resource because these days in the digital age, I mean, just about any business has a LinkedIn presence. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re active. But whether they’re active or not, their employees are probably on LinkedIn, too. And a lot of the times my job is figuring out who is the decision maker at that business, right? Because that’s who I need to talk to, to try to get in front of them, or in them as a client, show them how I can add value, right? And so a lot of the times that might start on LinkedIn is saying, Hey, I know this business is down the street from my office. I know they work on a national basis. I want to figure out how to try to earn them as a client. So who’s the person I need to talk to? Let’s go to LinkedIn, see who’s on there. Who’s the CEO Is the President who’s the operations manager, again, business focus, right. And then it’s contacting those people figuring out if they’re active. I mean, it’s, it’s a great resource. I mean, there’s there’s a lot of software these days and other tools and other places you can find some of this information. But LinkedIn has proven to be a pretty good resource. And consequently, that’s where I spent at least on the social media side of things where with what I do, that’s where I spend, arguably the most amount of my time, because I think it’s being seen by these other businesses. And then probably, if I’m not using my clients as the primary source of my business, the other primary source of my business is other out of state commercial brokers, residential brokers, referring their clients to me when they need commercial help. And so if I’m getting my message out, over the social channels, and LinkedIn, specifically, those two shareholder groups tend to see that and then will will see my content. Because I spend a lot of my time I try to make my contact very educational. I’m trying to demystify commercial real estate, I mean, if you if you boil down my content to its most simplest form, I’m trying to teach businesses and my friends, my family, residential agents, you name it, what I do every day, and then frankly, why if you if you look at it on the personal side, why I’m good at it, right, and why people should consider hiring me. So that’s, that’s kind of the driver of it. And LinkedIn has proven to be an awesome resource where because that’s, that’s, frankly, where people are looking for that kind of information versus Instagram, checking your, your, your friends, photos from their family weekend, or whatever it is, right? I mean, that’s not that’s not a bad source for commercial real estate by any means. But it’s, it’s probably not the primary. Right? That’s been my takeaway from it. D.J. Paris 26:40So I yeah, that was that’s really interesting. I, it spawned a few questions for me. You know, just because it’s so funny. When we think about commercial, I would assume that when you mentioned that to somebody who’s not in the real estate industry, oh, I’m a commercial agent. I imagine their first thought goes to office space. And so you’re probably constantly saying, Oh, I don’t, I don’t really do a lot of that. I’m sure you probably have done that or do that. But obviously, that’s just one of one of many different sectors. So there’s this reeducation process. So when people hear commercial, just a lot of people probably aren’t as familiar with what that means. Because they’ve probably everyone’s worked with a realtor. So they of course, know, you know, buying and selling home stuff. But this education processes is really, really a really interesting and smart idea. And really the top residential agents I’ve had on the show approached their business very similarly. Like, we want to be the education people. And you know, I want to make sure my residential clients really understand, you know, what they’re doing and why it makes sense, or doesn’t make sense. But I am curious to questions. And I’ve never thought to ask this and I certainly am not wanting to refer you to reveal anything you don’t want to so feel free to, to answer this in the way that makes the most sense for you. But just because residential commissions are so obvious, you know, an average across the country is about two and a half percent or so times the price of a home that’s usually what we see for residential commercial is really wide open. And it depends whether it’s a lease or a purchase or sale. But just to get an idea of what a commission could look like for commercial just to give our audience an awareness of of what you guys are dealing with, you might just sharing sort of how it generally works. Matt McLennan 28:20Great question. Yeah, happy to share it. It varies significantly. I mean, it’s I’d argue it’s the wild wild west to it. I feel like I’m living in the wild wild west sometimes fighting for my Commission’s I mean, we all agents fight for commissions. That’s right. But but it there’s so much variability amongst the greater product types and markets those that’s what it really comes down to a certain product types have certain commission structures, and then different markets have different commission structures. So you know, it’s it’s debt, generally speaking, percentage based, so in that regard, not very different than residential. And if you were to look at a typical commercial sale, like in the Seattle market, specifically, it might be a 5% commission split two and a half, two and a half to buyer and seller’s agent. So pretty, a lot of the convert, keep in mind, a lot of the commercial transactions can get pretty large in size, you know, upwards of three 510 $40 million and well above, right? So at some point, everybody looks at it rationally and goes hey, we can pay 5% on a $15 sale. Sorry that you’re good but you’re not that good. So yeah, at the end of the day, a lot of those commissions get scaled back based on the size of the transaction on the sales side of things. Leasing and this is the one that everybody has the hardest time understanding because typically there aren’t unless you live in New York there aren’t leasing Commission’s associated with renting housing most most often. Right, right. And so but on the leasing side of things, and I do a lot of leasing is it’s typically percentage based, and it’s also calculated on the book value of the lease. So if I’m a business, and I sign a lease for five years, and I agree to pay A this much rent per month and let’s say my rent goes up 4% every year to keep up with inflation, everything else going out? Well, I can run that calculation out of what are those five years of total lease payments going to be for that landlord that they’re going to collect? And then depending on where you go, the leasing commission could vary a little bit, but there’s usually a percentage assigned to that. And that percentage is then applied to that total leasing consideration over the term. And then that’s, that’s the commission calculation and what’s paid out. So again, I mean, a lot of times, it’s this kind of plus or minus 5% number, and then that may or may not get split between multiple agents if there’s multiple agents involved. But that’s in its most simple sense. That’s kind of how it’s done. And then like I mentioned, it just kind of varies Market to Market product type of product type D.J. Paris 30:48variable, if it’s a 10 year lease, and you’ve you’ve getting a percentage on the entire 10 years of payments. Is that and again, I imagine being the Wild West, it can be structured any which way. But is it? Is it more often we get it all when when they when they move in? Or is it split up year to year? Just in case? You know, the business goes belly up? At some point? I just I do I’m not as familiar with how often you’re paid on something like that. Matt McLennan 31:16I probably get that question more often than any other when it comes to figuring out long term lease commissions, right? Because what if the business I put in goes belly up one year into a 10? year lease? Right? The answer to the question is they are typically all paid upfront, which creates a lot of heartburn for a lot of the landlords, because they don’t you’re you’re taking a risk, right. But I think the way to look at it is if you’re a landlord of real estate, looking at it on investment purposes, you own investment, every investment is really risky. I don’t care if you’re investing in real estate, or stocks or bonds, or whatever it is, right? So you have to wait, your risk, right. And part of that requires you and hopefully your trusted broker to look at the lease term that you’re getting ready to sign the tenant, the tenants business, what their viability is. I mean, we do a very deep dive into company financial statements and multiple years of history on what the revenues and their incomes and profits and everything look like because you got to feel comfortable that if you’re going to sign a 10 year agreement with this group that they’re going to pay rent for the next 10 years. Well otherwise, and D.J. Paris 32:19also your reputations if you’re representing the tenant, then obviously you want them to succeed as well, because you want that future business. So yeah, Matt McLennan 32:29totally. So it varies. It’s a total again, case to case basis. A lot of times I get paid up front, sometimes I agree to take payments over time. Usually it depends on the sophistication of the landlord. So our market, a lot of the times I work with large publicly traded REITs pension funds, life insurance companies that own pretty large scale real estate, and might be based on Wall Street. I mean, they have massive pocketbooks. So for them to pay a full commission upfront on a 10 year lease, they they see the value in doing that, to get the deal and get it all done and make me happy and make everyone else happy and get it done. Right. But if you’re a mom and pop who relies on this income stream, this is the one commercial building you own, maybe you’re you’re already retired, and this basically is this is what funds your retirement, right. And I come in as the broker and sign a 10 year deal and ask for you to pay me everything upfront. I mean, that could be months of their rent payments and months of what they live off of right? Sure. And so at some point they go, and that’s where I see some hesitation, and especially those kinds of clients wanting to work with brokers, because we cost money. And so at some point, if you’re, in my opinion, if you’re a smart, reasonable agent, you can see if you if you’re betting on yourself, you’re betting on the tenant, you believe in the deal you’re doing that tenants not going to go belly up after a couple of years, well, then it probably makes sense to work with that owner and structure a commission that’s paid over time, because that’ll, that does wonders for them and their cash flow and their ability to actually transact, you’ve now theoretically as an agent, set yourself apart from your competition, who maybe would be more greedy, who requires all that commission to get paid up front? So it just it’s there’s a huge variance. It’s just a really, it’s a case by case basis. D.J. Paris 34:14You mentioned AI and I hadn’t thought to ask that. And I should just talk to everybody about AI because of course, you know, I use AI every single day more as a place to get answers because I love just now I can very like easily ask questions and get specific answers. I don’t know if they’re always accurate. But I do love the ability to do that. But I tend to think of AI for how it suits my needs, which is creative prompts for different marketing things, asking questions that I want answers to, but I don’t really know how it applies so much in the commercial world. So I’m excited just to hear a little bit about what you’re seeing starting to happen and how you think it’s going to help you guys in your business. Matt McLennan 34:57I believe from a Residential and a commercial real estate standpoint, we’ve barely scratched the surface with AI. But so much more of it is happening in the background than any of us realized I was just at a conference actually in Chicago two weeks ago. For SLR, which is society of industrial and office realtors. And so we had a couple of speakers there a couple of industry experts, and the hot topic was AI, which is nothing new. I mean, it’s been a buzzword for for a while now, right? What are majority of if you’re a real estate agent, or really anybody who’s just kind of flirting with AI, what are you doing with it? It’s probably content creation and asking questions, right. But the capabilities of it from what I’ve been able to at least delve in and discover to date is so much data analytics, data interpretation, predictive models. And really also, I mean, a lot of real estate oriented tasks. I mean, they they ran out an example that I saw that basically, from start to finish a real estate of a I sold the real estate property, wow, looked looked up the property created, you know, an offering memorandum for it, got it listed, took in and queries from interested parties answered their questions, scheduled tours, I mean, basically, the only thing they couldn’t do was go meet with anyone in person, right? Because it just was physically impossible. So if you think as much as I terrified at the idea of AI taking my job, I don’t, I don’t think it’s it’s going to happen that way. On the On the contrary, it’s going to allow us to provide better service for our clients and streamline a lot of those more, just really time consuming, basic processes that need to be done. But aren’t the best use of our time, per se, they’re more, you know, $5 an hour jobs. And so if AI can be utilized for something like that, I mean, I see nothing but benefit from it. And that example I used was incredibly interesting. So that’s the direction it appears to be heading. A lot of the at that same conference I was just talking about, I mean, the big mantra that was being preached is that if you can’t figure out how to adopt this into your business in some way, shape, or form, your competition is going to start crushing you tomorrow. So that was kind of my wake up call. I’ve been playing with it a little bit. And now I’m going wow, I need to figure out how to really deep dive analyze this and get it in my business every day. D.J. Paris 37:16Yeah, I see a lot of opportunity for commercial where just feeding it the data that that you want to analyze and interpret, you know, used to be a lot more behind lock and key. Certainly, organizations like costar loop net, you know, have a tremendous amount of data. And while they have had a stranglehold and I love costar looking at but they have, they’ve had a very good run. And without very many competitors. I know crack sees a competitor, and there’s probably a few others. But I suspect that AI will allow commercial agents like yourself just access to more information over time when when these little niche services start coming out with AI to allow you to not have to do as much background analytics and more relationship management, which is is what most vendors at corporate or at businesses who you know, work on its relationships, right? It’s that that thing is hopefully never going to be solved by AI? I hope not. I think we’re all in trouble if they can somehow solve interpersonal relationships and do that for us. But the idea that it sort of listed a property took an increase, the example you gave and then sold a property is, is really incredible. But I don’t think relationships are going away. I certainly hope not. I’ll be out of a job too. If that happens. So I can I can appreciate that. That’s, it’s very, very interesting. I was at a conference with Zillow a few a few months ago, and they were talking about a there they were just mentioning, like, like AI isn’t really new at all. They said when we started the Zestimate, which everybody probably knows, they said, That’s AI, they said it was like 2003 or whatever they I forgot when they rolled out maybe it was 2006 or something whenever it was early 2000s. And that’s when they rolled it out. They’re like that, that’s AI are like, okay, so it’s actually been around for a long time. But now with GPT getting more accessible to the to the to the end user. It’s just really, really changing things, and certainly a lot of fun to learn about what the capabilities are. So what is the what are the misconceptions? Or what is it a misconception that residential agents have about the commercial world that if you could wave a magic wand and educate everybody about, I think you may have already said that the major point is, you know, stay in your lane. If you’re a residential agent, or at least consider staying in your lane. Because as much as you want to do every deal for every client, as Matt said very elegantly and simply, I think it’s like simple and elegant at the same time, is, you know, you’re not doing your client really any service if you’re not an expert in that particular area. And that’s just that’s just the truth. So, so there’s that But are there any other misconceptions that residential agents have? Because the worlds are really they don’t intersect that often. You know, commercial and residential agents are very different breeds, and they don’t oftentimes interact. So just what do you wish residential agents understood more about commercial? Matt McLennan 40:17I think there’s two things that come to mind. One is if I’m a residential agent, and I’ve been doing this for 15 years, and I’ve sold 1000s of houses, I’m I’m thinking to myself, I know how contracts work, I know how to navigate an MLS. I know my market, I know geographically where everything is, I can do it. And now my, my buddy’s plumbing business needs a 10,000 square foot warehouse space, I can do that. I know how to do it. How many times have you done it? Right. And so I think that that’s the big one. And then the other misconception is, hey, my client trusts me, they trust only me, they like working with me. And I can’t get to a comfort level of sharing them with a commercial agent who doesn’t know them. And we all know how that goes when it comes to sharing referrals, right? I mean, if the relationship you build with your existing client is strong enough, you should have no problem figuring out how to introduce them to someone else you trust, find that that’s that’s critical, right? Find a commercial agent that you believe is an expert, that maybe you know, or that you trust, right, I think that’s the big one. But the other big one is, is I think a lot of times, because the commercial commission structure is mystifying. And sometimes the transactions are large enough where the the commission payments seem much larger and maybe more alluring than your typical house sale. That’s another reason why residential, I’m going to do this myself, because wow, this is this looks like a great payday. And the number of times I’ve seen that, unfortunately, come at the detriment of the client where they overpaid or the transaction never happened, because the residential agent couldn’t figure out how to properly navigate the transaction and get the deal done. That’s what I get concerned about. And that’s what I see as the client, being at the detriment of all that, I’ll tell you candidly, I love sharing commissions, I’d rather do I’m a volume guy. So I would much rather do more deals and share my Commission’s then do less deals and do them all myself. And I like collaborating with people too. So I think that’s that’s really what it comes down to find your commercial agents that are in your market and active network with them make friends, I think you’ll be surprised a how much more you have in common with them than you realize, two, you can teach each other a lot of things. My buddy who helps me on the residential side, I met him at an open house when I was trying to go buy a house when I moved to a new town. And we hit it off. And we just kind of built a relationship from there. And then we’ve since made it a point of regularly getting together and just trading notes on what’s going on in our respective markets, which helps both of our clients all of our clients really so anyway, that’s that’s a really long winded way of getting back to the point of this, which is just don’t be afraid to engage with the commercial agent. Because in a lot of times, I think you’ll realize that like and I’m doing this with that same guy that I just use an example. He straight up called me and was like, Hey, this looks like it’s going to be an awesome, you know, pretty sizable deal. I have no idea what I’m doing. Can I just can I just can I basically ride your coattails and he’s like, will you if I bring you this deal and partner with you on it? Well, you kind of teach me along the way rather than just me referring it to you and you go do everything and then pay me a commission three months later, when it’s all done. I said, Absolutely. I’d love to teach. And that’s me personally, I just like to teach I actually enjoy the mentorship component of what we do. But that’s a big opportunity for residential agents, if you have any interest in commercial and don’t even know where to begin, refer that deal out and as a condition of referring it out, asked to be a part of the entire deal and get taught. And I would be willing to bet you nine times out of 10 that commercial agent is gonna go Yeah, okay, fine. You can be she can be part of it the whole time. D.J. Paris 43:55Yeah. Yeah, that is a really great suggestion. And you know, you were just going back to one point that you were making that happens, I’m sure a lot like you were saying with a residential agent has this relationship with a client who maybe is a business owner, so they help them on the residential side, and all of a sudden, there’s this commercial opportunity. And they go, Well, the client knows me like me, trust me. They don’t know you, they, they want me to do this deal. And I’ve always thought, obviously, there’s exceptions to every rule. But I mean, I don’t really understand the difficulty in saying to the client, you don’t want me on this one. And here’s why. I love you. I would love to do this. You’re my favorite client. And I’m not the right guy for this, but I got the right guy for this and I’m going to bring them in. We’re going to get you comfortable with them. I’m going to be on the deal. I’m going to be you know, watching it overseeing it, you know, however, whatever language you want to use. Yeah, I’m always shocked when I hear people say those kinds of things. I’m like, I don’t what kind of relationship do you have with with this client? If you can’t tell? The truth. And I Matt McLennan 45:01literally say that all the time, all the time, I probably more often than I should say, I’m not the guy for the job, thank you for wanting to hire me, I am not the guy for this job. And I tell this to my clients, I tell this to my friends, I tell this to my family, literally anyone within my network, what I know, I know my market area really well. I know real estate really well. And part of my job is being very visible and present in my community. So I know business owners, I know what’s going on, right? But I’m not always the right person for the job. But one thing that I try to tell everyone within my network is if you have a question on anything of Who do I go for this? Who is a good plumber for my house? Who can who can sell my house? Where do I move my business? What’s a good rental car company in the area? I mean, I’m I’m joking, but I’m dead serious. As far as how deep some of this goes, I say just call me. Because I’d be willing to bet you nine times out of 10. If not more that I can point you in the right direction. I’ll either tell you Yeah, I’d love to work with you on that I’m, I’m the guy to help you. Or I’m not the right guy. But these guys that share this wall with me, they’re the downtown office brokers, you want to go lease an office for your law firm. They’re the guys to call and I’ll make an introduction. They’ll they’ll work TEDx harder, because I have a good working relationship with them. So if I make the introduction for you, they’re going to move mountains, because they want to make me happy. I mean, it’s it’s truly a win win. But that’s, that’s really what it comes down to is find your expert. And then don’t don’t try to go on Google. And, you know, oh, how do I how do I do this? Or where do I find this person? Save yourself the time and effort and just call me? I mean, that’s, that’s I consider that part of my job. So yeah, D.J. Paris 46:38it’s it’s a really important thing for all of our audience to hear. So if there was anyone in our audience that has opportunities for you, maybe in your in your local area in Washington, or elsewhere in the country, you know, what’s the best way that someone should reach out to you to say, hey, I have this opportunity, I’m not sure if it would fit with what you do. But I wanted to run it by you. And by the way, Matt knows, lots of people in lots of different sectors in the commercial world, Mac can certainly find the right place for you. If if he it’s not him, as he said, he turns down a lot of business because he feels like it’s better to refer something that he’s not an expert in. But what is the best way someone should reach out to you if they have an opportunity? Matt McLennan 47:22Simply put email and phone and so I may be opening the floodgates a little bit on this one, but I’m sure you’ll you’ll have my website and the notes and everything like that. But if you go to kinder.com or search Matt McLennan Kidder Mathews you’ll you’ll find my page all my contact info, phone and email is public. And seriously, please call email me I like I mentioned I, one of the things I actually truly probably enjoy most about this business is demystifying it educating mentorship. And so I mean, I don’t care if you’re selling houses in Cincinnati, Ohio, and you’re curious about how Boeing builds airplanes in Washington and just what is it manufacturing center work? Call me email me. I’m happy to donate some of my time to just do exactly that. Because I think it said said guy in Cincinnati who or who is interested in the Seattle market, who knows, maybe moves out here one day, and I mean, you get where I’m going with this is also a good yes, D.J. Paris 48:20Cincinnati is a great example. Because I went I went to college near there, and Procter and Gamble is there. So that’s a great example of somebody in Cincinnati, you might still have an opportunity to work with Matt, because of course, p&g is there everywhere in the world. And you know, there are these you know, I’m from Peoria, Illinois, Caterpillar is there, right? They have factories all over all over, not just factories, but industrial, all sorts of, obviously real estate needs. And so this is a real opportunity, guys. So even if your business isn’t in the Pacific Northwest, don’t let that stop you from reaching out to Matt, because he works nationwide, number one, or at least he can connect you with the with people who he is happy to work. And I just had one last question only because I don’t know why this is occurring. To me. Maybe it’s only interesting to me. But I’ll ask it anyway, in the residential world, we’ve seen in the last, I don’t know, five years, or specifically the last couple of years, this growing trend for individual practitioners to really either join a team or build a team on their own. There’s sort of a strength and numbers mentality, which seems to work pretty well on the residential side, depending on how you set it up. Is that also happening on the commercial side, too? I know you’re an individual practitioner, but are you starting to see more commercial teams? Or is it still, you know, kind of a more individual type of business? Matt McLennan 49:40I haven’t seen the trend really switching in one direction or another here. Here’s the big thing with commercial, I’d say here’s I’ll try to break this down. Probably on average on any given year, I probably do somewhere between about 30 to 50 transactions a year. And I would argue that let’s let’s again, use the 8020 rule. With 80% of those transactions, I’m probably actually partnered with another broker. So while I don’t have a defined team, you know, the Clinton Anderson team and McLennan Smith team or whatever, right, I mean, as far as people that I’m jointly partnered with on every transaction that I work on, a lot of the times I’m reaching out, depending on the assignment, depending on the geographic location, especially if it’s out of state, right, I am partnering on a team basis to complete that transaction. And the strength and numbers mentality. I mean, there’s there’s obviously efficiencies on prospecting and business development and all that. And then the real big thing is like, we all try to be humans and live our lives too, right? So to a certain degree, if I want to go take a vacation for two weeks, and I’ve got a busy listing, well, hopefully, I am partnered with someone who was gone for two weeks can go show that building, get people through their answer email, and queries and calls and all that, right. So there is, I do see a lot of benefit in the team environment, and I’m certainly not against it, there may be a day that I go down that road. But at least on the solo side, where I’m at right now, I actually have the ability to create my team for each individualized assignment or client, however, I best see fit, which to me, actually, I kind of feel as a strategic advantage, because I’m not locked into just this one team dynamic with 234, whoever those individuals are, and that’s who we are. And that’s our team. And that’s how we work on every transaction. Because I again, I try to take the client first mindset with everything I do. So build a team that’s best for the client. That’s pretty much what I asked myself before I take on every assignment. D.J. Paris 51:35Yeah, I guess, you already you basically always are on a team, or almost always on some sort of team that you’ve facilitated to help sort of cohesively, you know, meet the client’s needs to close the deal. Get the specialties in place. So yeah, that makes perfect sense. I, I probably should have thought of that, that. But that makes that makes perfect sense. So, Matt, this has been really incredible. By the way, I’m just going to reiterate what Matt said at the very beginning as he chose a residential agent for his own property when he was buying a home. So guys, this is this, these are not people to fear, they’re not looking to take your deals away. But they’re also encouraging you to not necessarily jump into an area where you’ve not done it before, at the very least certainly partner up with somebody who’s done it before I would, there’s an Kai no two industrial agents here in Chicago. And they love it when residential agents attempt those, because they almost always fail. There’s almost always a screw up. And they come running to the commercial agent down the road anyway, and they learned their lesson, hopefully. But it is, it is certainly something that, you know, again, to stay in your lane thing is a good idea for most of us. So Matt has connections to all different sorts of sectors, certainly in the industrial space, he knows a lot there. But he also can assist you. And he’s got a lot of resources at his disposal to point you in the right direction, his email and phone will be in our show notes. Please reach out to him. He’s He’s a heck of a nice guy. And he’s very, very professional. That’s the one thing I will say I love about commercial agents is the commercial agents I know are there is still this sort of old, older school professionalism that I still like to see in real estate. It’s not as common on the residential side as much anymore. But I love the fact that commercial agents tend to come off as more of a corporate presence because they are dealing with a lot of corporate clients. And I’ve always really appreciated that about that industry here. I’m sitting in shorts, by the way. So I’m telling on myself, Matt is Matt McLennan 53:39I don’t wear this jacket every day. This is well he’s dressing going on later D.J. Paris 53:44today. But no, for sure. Got it. No, I just appreciate that. I think you can’t ever overdress I really don’t believe in over present, and there’s a certain polish to successful commercial agents that I’ve always appreciated. It’s a very, it’s a very difficult business. We think residential is hard. Guys, commercial is a lot harder. It just is. And you know, to make it in the commercial world, you have to have nerves of steel. And you have to really have have a lot of intelligence and a lot of sort of organization, and just great skill. So commercial agents, I’ve always been, they’re always some of the smartest best people in this industry. I’m so impressed with them. So for all of you that are listening, let’s find a good commercial agent to partner with reached out to Matt, if you have any. And by the way, if you know, people moving in and out of the Seattle area, well, I’m sorry, the Puget Sound area, which is sort of Seattle down to Tacoma, and everything in between, you know, also you can reach out to Matt as well, right? He’s got connections in that area, and he’s got people that he’s got clients that are moving and opening in other locations, too. So let’s, let’s make a great connection with Matt and let’s reach out to him so his email and phone number are in the show notes. I will post his Is social in there as well. And then his website or we’re sorry, his firm is Kidder Mathews, we will have a link to his direct page with all of his contact info. But Matt, really, on behalf of our audience, thank you for coming on a residential podcast and talking about commercial because I’m always once a year, I try to do a great commercial episode. So you met my goal for the year. And you did a great job. And it was really, really informative. And I am super ignorant to commercial. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing that with our audience. Guys, again, reach out to Matt, he’s just a heck of a nice guy. And, and a really, really a solid professional. So reach out to him for any commercial needs that you have. And if he can’t help you, he’ll likely point you in the right direction. And also, maybe you guys can share some business back and forth. So please consider reaching out to him. On behalf of the audience. Matt, thank you, we know how busy you are in the commercial world. And, and thank you for your time today. And on behalf of Matt and myself. Also want to thank everyone who’s listening right now and who made it to the end of the episode, we appreciate you please, just before you sign off, everyone listening, do one one or two favors you could choose ideally to but one one would be fine with me just tell a friend to think about one other agent that maybe would like to hear a little bit more about the commercial world, send them a link to this episode. Because of course we all know agents that are trying their hand at commercial, this might give them some some understanding of maybe how to best proceed if they’re on the residential side and maybe confused about where to go next. And then also let leave us a review wherever you’re listening to this. If it’s on an app, let us know what you think of the show. You know, let us know and we read all of those. Those comments. We want to continue to make the show better. So thank you for that. Matt, thank you for again for this great conversation and we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, man. Matt McLennan 56:46Thank you, DJ, appreciate it. I really appreciate the opportunity to be on and love what you’re doing the podcast and with your business. Keep it up.

Sara DeWulf with Real in the Quad Cities talks about how she started her career in real estate 13 years ago. Sara discusses strategies she uses close 117 transactions in a year as a solo agent. Sara also talks about how she grew her google reviews and their importance. Sara also discusses what she’s doing to stay positive and productive in this down market and about basics of building in this business. Last, Sara shares tips for the new agents entering the market now. Please follow Sara on Instagram. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Sara DeWulf can be reached at 563-940-2889 and sara@saradewulfrealtor.com. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00It’s official. We’re in a down market. But what activities should agents be focused on right now to keep their business moving? We’re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solutions so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I will be your guide and host through the show. And we’re in just a moment going to be speaking with top producers Sarah DeWolf. But before we get to Sarah, just a couple of reminders. First of all, big thank you to everyone listening right now we just crossed over 500 episodes and 3.2 million lifetime audio downloads. That’s a big deal to me and our team. And it’s all because of you guys. So thank you thank you thank you. The best way you can always help keeping our show going is by telling a friend think of one other realtor that you know that could benefit from hearing interviews like the one you’re about to with Sarah and send them a link to our website which is keeping it real pod.com Or they can pull up any podcast app and just search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. Guys. Let’s just get to the main event thanks for 500 episodes and hopefully another 500 in the in the upcoming years. And let’s get to it my conversation with Sarah Wolf. Okay today on the show, our guest is serra de Wolf from with real in the Quad Cities. For those of you not from the Midwest. What are the Quad Cities there are four cities that sit right on the Illinois Iowa border. So she is licensed in both Illinois and Iowa but let me tell you more about Sarah. Now Sarah Wolf is a licensed Realtor both Illinois and Iowa since 2010. She is consistently among the top agents in the Quad Cities 22. The 2022 stats include selling over 36 million and closed volume with 117 transactions. That’s one every three days amazing. And as an individual agent, she did that now she’s also ranked in the prestigious Tom Ferry, the 1000 best realtors in the country. She ranks number 195 She’s in the she’s in the top point zero 1% of agents in the United States. And when she’s not working, Sara and her husband have two toddlers, they own a local young Lumberyard rental properties and an Airbnb. This is a busy woman and I’m excited to chat with her. Sarah, welcome to the show. Sarah Dewulf 3:56Thank you for having me. I’m tired just thinking about that. D.J. Paris 4:00Alright, well I’m tired reading it. I put that I love that expression. I’ve probably said it a million times on the show is if you want something done give it to a busy mother. They just get everything done. But every everyone follow Sarah on Instagram Sarah dewulf that’s D it first of all it’s S A R A D Wu L F ki realtor QC realtor yet Quad City so guys, don’t worry. It’ll link to it in the show notes. Sarah wealth QC realtor on Instagram. And we’ll also have a link to our website, which is Sarah Wolf. realtor.com. Sarah, I’m so excited to have you. Tell us how you got into the market in 2010. Not the easiest time to get into the market. So I want to hear about what that experience was like because we have a lot of agents today getting in right now. And it’s not quite as awful as it was back then. But it is still a challenging time. So tell us about how you got started in Y. Sure. Sarah Dewulf 4:55So at the time in 2010 I was in college and my major was A psychology. My dad was a realtor. So I am a second generation realtor. He was a managing broker for our offices and said, you should get into real estate. And so it wasn’t something that I grew up thinking that I was going to do. And I he did it for 20 years. And so I watched him and I always was interested in real estate. But I didn’t know that that was the path I was going to go down. However I was, I didn’t want to do school anymore. I didn’t want to get my Master’s or PhD and psychology does come in handy every day with real estate. So it does it worked out. So he, him and I work together, we will do all of our listings together and buyers separately. So it was kind of a we weren’t really a team, but sort of we were the father daughter team on listings. And so it was nice, because he He taught me everything I know. And we would drive around all day to different appointments. And I would listen to him and listen to 45 different agents calling him with headaches. And so I felt like I was on a fast track to learning this business, which every day is different. And now 13 years in, I’m still learning things, of course. And each deal has different different things that you’ve got to kind of work through. So he passed away in 2019. And it was pretty unexpected. He was he was in a surgery and my I looked at my husband, and we didn’t know if he was going to make it out of that surgery. And I looked at my husband and said, What am I going to do? Because it had always just been him and I he didn’t die that night, thankfully, but I had two more weeks with him. And he did unfortunately pass away. So I had to quickly pick up the pieces. And I knew for sure that he wouldn’t want me sitting around crying. So I just went right to work and figured out how am I going to really do this without him. So that was in 2019. And that year, I had sold 12 million in sales and 2020 I sold 20 23 million. So I almost doubled my sales. Thank you. And grew it ever since then. So I hope he’s looking down and proud. But he is certainly missed. But how lucky am I that I had such a great teacher for 10 years? Yeah, D.J. Paris 7:09it’s life is a mixture of tragedy and fortunate, fortunate events. And it’s just this dance of peaks and valleys. And we all go through it. And yeah, my heart goes out to you for losing your father. We’re all we’re all going to do it someday we’re all going to lose, lose our parents and it is the scariest thing ever. But I also you also had some a health issue yourself that came at a very young age. And I’m if you don’t mind sharing that I’m curious because I’m what I’m curious about is what how that experience maybe shaped you into who you are today? Because it was a pretty serious one, if you don’t mind. Sarah Dewulf 7:55Yeah, absolutely. So that I had melanoma, I had a mole on my arm that didn’t look great. But at the time I was 26. And that it’s probably nothing. And so I ended up going in probably way later than I should have. And they they took them all off and said, Oh, best case scenario, we caught it early stage one a will remove it. And then they said but because of your age, we’re gonna test a couple couple lymph nodes, just to make sure. Well, they did that and it to have the lymph nodes tested positive. So for whatever reason, the type of cancer that I had, they could see actively splitting under a microscope. So it was moving very, very quickly. So I quickly went from stage one A to stage three B, which is much more serious. So I had to do a lot of scans. And luckily it hadn’t spread past my lymph nodes. We caught it kind of just in time. So I had several surgeries. And that was a that was a rough time it was I was probably three years into the business. And so it was starting to get more consistent, but not quite. And so between just being scared to death, literally, am I going to survive this and I was dating my husband at the time, but we weren’t married. And so that was about a year long of going back and forth to Iowa City to the hospital there and just making sure that everything was okay and thank god no issue since and that was it’ll be 10 years in February. But it changed my life. I can’t I can tell you that for sure. D.J. Paris 9:21Yeah. What what did, obviously, you know, significant events like that do tend to change people’s perspective or their maybe even change their goals or their you know, the things that are they’re important the things that are important to them. They’re their values. How did that change here? Sarah Dewulf 9:39I’ve always been a don’t sweat the small stuff type of person. But even more so now. It’s little things that aren’t going to matter in five years or an agent just makes you so mad. You want to call and yell at them or say this isn’t right. But is it worth it? Is it going to change anything? No. So it’s just a matter of taking a day A time and being so grateful for my health, that at 26, it hits you different when you start to think am I going to make it? And you really don’t think about that in your 20s very often. And really, without our health, we have nothing. So all these little things stressors in life, if you’re happy if your family is healthy, that’s all that matters. D.J. Paris 10:20Yeah, I was having a moment last night where I was starting to judge myself. unfairly, I was thinking about something in my life that I don’t have as much of as I want. And I was cooking, and I really enjoy cooking. And I was making this meal that I’d never made before. It was kind of a fun thing. But I was sitting there going, Gosh, I don’t have this and that and you know, like, I’m so you know, I’m such a loser or whatever, you know, things that negative self talk. And I realized I said, well, but I have this moment where I’m cooking, and why am I like I could enjoy this moment, while I’m cooking. I can get back to beating myself up later. But I said, I said, Boy, I’m missing out on this fun thing I like to do just because I’m, I’m you know, caught up in this in this judgment. So it is really important, I think, to monitor and pay attention, be mindful of what’s going on inside of especially around, as you mentioned, like anger. You know, I think a great rule of thumb in this industry and anger is going to come up because people just do goofy things. And other realtors may do things that you don’t like, and your clients may do things that you don’t like. But I always say, I don’t make good decisions when I’m angry. And I certainly don’t have access to all my faculties. And I can’t make oftentimes the best logical decision. So I think what you said was really great. It’s like when you’re angry. That’s not right. Really the time to communicate, right? Settle down first. realize it’s like Sarah says, it may just be a small thing, even though it feels big in the moment. Give yourself a breath, and then respond. Yes, let it or just let it go. Let it go. Yes, unless it’s something where you can’t let it go. And you need to actually take action. But most of the time, most things resolve themselves. But Sarah, want to learn more about you because you have to get licensed in two states, not the easiest thing or most fun thing to do. But based on the geography of where you practice, it is critical. And so you have to sort of know how to do deals on two different probably MLS is I don’t know if it’s the same Oh, it’s probably the Sarah Dewulf 12:20same MLS luckily, it’s the same MLS Oh, thank D.J. Paris 12:22goodness, that makes it easier. But you know, I want to tell you, you did 117 sales last year. That is insane. In the best possible compliment. I could give somebody you knocked out almost 40 million in production. And this is what you did yourself, which is crazy. Let’s talk about how you did that. Yes, you had a father, a great mentor, wonderful realtor. And you learned and developed your skills. But most people who even come from a family that was in real estate, they don’t do 117 sales in a year. So what’s your secret? Not that there’s a secret? What’s your I hate to say that word? What’s the what’s your strategy? Sarah Dewulf 13:05What works? Yeah, it’s been so I, I had systems in place when I first started that I’ve tried to tweak over the years, as Sharan SIRVA says, just because it’s tried and true doesn’t mean that it’s working right now. So I’ve advertised I used to advertise on Zillow that 10 years ago, that was huge for me, and I had a ton of customers come on clients come in that way. Now, I would never advertise on Zillow. So it’s little things along that I’ve just tried to tweak and get better. I should note that I also had a baby last year. And with that being said, I have an incredibly supportive husband and family and mom. And to which none of this would be possible without all of them. So it’s not just me. But I really to think two big things that my dad instilled in me is to create raving fans, and that customer service is a lost art. And I always remember when I go to a hotel and they go above and beyond maybe it’s my birthday, and there’s a bottle of champagne in the room. And it’s little things like that if you do more than what the customer expects. Any a lot. I shouldn’t say anyone but most people could be a realtor. It’s a lot harder than I think what people think. And it’s hard to grow your business and I also don’t think that people sit down and say okay, this is my business. I’m not just selling real estate, I’m I’m creating a business and I’m in charge of that. D.J. Paris 14:31I’m the business as opposed to in the in the businesses, all the stuff I need to do now my clients my prospecting all of the activities, and then on the businesses. Okay, let’s take a step back and look at this as a business owner. Where are their inefficiencies? Where can I delegate How can I make this whole process? All these processes run smoother? Sarah Dewulf 14:50Yes, yes. And I guess it’s it’s been interesting from 2010 to now seeing the difference in the market and in the Quad Cities we’re lucky because We don’t see these big huge drops in prices. We’ve, we’ve been consistent as far as equity goes. And so that helps. But it’s also not a big, it’s not a huge town like Chicago, but with Iowa and Illinois, we’ve got quite a few people. So it, I guess it’s just it’s important to look at your business and see what’s working and what’s not working and always be tweaking those systems. I think that oh, God, no. I said, when I started in your, you don’t have a lot of clients, and I was 23. And so a lot of my friends weren’t quite buying houses yet. And there’s things that I know that I did, right. And there’s, I guess, advice that I have that I should have done, I should have been working on Google reviews from day one I can’t D.J. Paris 15:48have, let’s pause for a second. So I want to I want to step in with this because we have about 800, just under 800 agents at our firm. And we didn’t do much with Google reviews up until about maybe three years ago. And now what we do is we send a the opportunity to do a Google review to every one of our broker or every one of our agents clients. So that we, you know, we, we just say, Hey, let us know what you thought of your realtor. And, and we went from having almost almost no reviews to now we have I think six or 700. It’s never too late to start everyone this can work. Sarah Dewulf 16:23This, this is a good story. So I had at my previous brokerage, they use testimonial tree. And when I switched, I lost all of those. So I went to my Google page. And I think I had 11 reviews, which is absolutely ridiculous for doing this for 13 years. So I knew I needed to do something and quick. So I have always been a believer in mailings and not the traditional postcard that people are just going to throw in the trash. I tried to stick to maybe three or four quarterly, something that they’re going to keep on their refrigerator. So in Iowa, we don’t have a professional football team. So the Hawkeyes are everybody cheers for the hot guys, or they should. So I send out the football magnet. And then I’m top of mind on their refrigerator all season long. I’ve send out grocery magnets, all kinds of just different things. But one thing that I did recently is I needed Google reviews. So I sent out something saying I’m celebrating 13 years in business. Thank you for all your support, I’m going to be giving away. I think I did a solo stove, a pizza oven, a Blackstone kind of some cool things that I spent $1,500. But gifts. Yeah, I sent it to my mailing list, which is about 500 people. It’s past clients, but it’s also just my sphere of influence. And I got 72 Google reviews. So that yes, and so in my clients were so excited. They they wrote the review, which probably didn’t take more than a minute. And when we drew their name, we sent anyone that filled one out, we sent even if it’s a $10 gift card or ice cream or something, they got something. But it was a good way to quickly grow those Google reviews because reviews are so important. And D.J. Paris 18:02everyone’s going to Google you even if they’re your closest friends, they’re still going to Google you just because they want to see how you do or what other what other clients think about you. And Google is obviously top of the mountain for for reviews. I would say Zillow is probably number two for where people find reviews. So yes, it’s a great idea. And it also helps with SEO, local SEO, in particular, meaning showing up on web searches when people are searching for realtors in their area. Google, you know can make a general assumption that if somebody’s got hundreds and hundreds of five star reviews, odds are they’re probably a pretty decent search result to serve up to to a consumer who’s looking. So yes, Google, my business is the name of the platform, or I think they changed the amount of things just Google business. But anyway, get yourself on Google. Well, I want to talk about referrals, because well, I want to talk about something that leads to referrals. You said, going above and beyond. Can you give us a couple of examples of ways in which you do that, that maybe you think not every agent does. Sure. Sarah Dewulf 19:08So most people don’t buy and sell houses every day. So a lot of times, especially with first time homebuyers, they’re intimidated and really don’t know what to do. So I it’s amazing to me how many agents don’t do buyer’s consultations, and that is a must for me. So when someone calls and they’re ready to buy a house, whether it’s their first house or their 10th house, we sit down to talk about their goals. I give expectations on the market, what’s what to expect. And if you do an inspection and you want to ask for something, please know that amends the contract. So we don’t want to ask for something small. Because a lot of times buyers want to renegotiate or whatever it ends up being so I do different checkpoints through the process with them. We start with our buyer’s consultation. Assuming they’re already pre approved, we’ll start shopping for houses. As we’re shopping. I’m pointing out things I’m certainly not an inspector but I Do a lot of inspections. So I can say, hey, this might come up, just be prepared, then will I have a full time assistant shout out Carrie, I could not do this without her. She is amazing. And so she does different checkpoints. Like when we get closer to closing, it’s Hey, Sarah wanted me to remind you to switch utilities. And it’s links to all the utilities, even internet cable all those things, or and then two weeks after closing, we send out an email saying, hey, just a reminder, make sure you sign up for that homestead tax credit. So I try to just make the process as simple as possible for them. But also, not too I don’t, I’ve never looked at my business as transactional. I’ve always just said yes to everything. And I think that that is, in part a big, I guess it’s a big part of my success, I see a lot of new agents that get so caught up in price point. And I don’t want to go show that $60,000 house. Well, the person that’s buying the $60,000 House has family and friends. And if you can create a raving fan, like my dad said, they’re gonna tell all their friends and family what a great experience they had with you. So that’s been really important to me is how do I make sure that my buyers and sellers have the best experience and that I’m giving them best case scenario, worst case scenario, and enough information for them to make an informed decision. D.J. Paris 21:20So right now the market is thank you for all of that, by the way, um, that was all just exactly the way I feel about what Realtors ought to do for customer service. And going above above and beyond is, it’s it’s it’s what it’s I think M Scott Peck wrote, it’s never crowded along the extra mile or someone wrote that book. But it’s, he’s he’s right, it’s literally not that crowded on the extra mile. And it doesn’t mean you have to, you know, sprint a mile for somebody, it does not mean that it just means going a little bit beyond what they would expect. You know, it’s as simple as just knowing what’s going on in your clients lives and reaching out to them from time to time to check in on them and ask about their kids or, you know, whatever they’re dealing with as a family or business. But it is the market has shifted. So we have interest rates in the eights at this point. If you’re lucky in the high sevens, and you know, there’s the vast majority of homeowners in this country have a under a 4% mortgage at this point. In fact, like, I think it’s like 90% have under a 4% mortgage. So there’s not a big incentive for people to move unless they have to. So I’m curious about what you’re doing to stay positive, stay productive. And just, you know, keep your business chugging along. Right now. Sarah Dewulf 22:40Yeah. Social media, I think is our biggest tool as agents. And I’ll get into a little bit on well, with social media, I think that it is the most important thing that we can be posting to, and people get so caught up in rates. And obviously, it’s very impactful into our market. But usually what I tell people when they get nervous about it is if you’re comfortable with the payment, the interest rate shouldn’t matter too much. And people sign up for 27% Credit cards every day. So if you lost the house, that is a great point. So if you love the house, and you can afford it, buy it D.J. Paris 23:16right away. Don’t sign up for 27% credit cards, everybody. Sarah Dewulf 23:20Especially when you’re buying a house. Yes, yes. D.J. Paris 23:23And if you are somebody that doesn’t pay their entire balance off every month, then yes, do not say. But yes, sir. So absolutely right. You’re right, the rate isn’t that important. But what the rate can do is still drive people away. Right? So you know that the rate isn’t that isn’t as relevant. But the consumer might feel like, Oh, I missed the boat a couple years ago, I could have gotten in for 2.9. So what is your does that happen? Do you do come across people like that? Sarah Dewulf 23:50Oh, yeah, constantly. And a lot of people sometimes it doesn’t make sense for them to move right now. If if it’s going to be a lateral move to a small, even a smaller house based on a 2.9% interest rate, then we just pause it. It. I guess for me, it’s the way that I’ve kept things moving is I try to remind people to not get their local real estate advice from the news. A news is going to talk about its doomsday and houses aren’t selling and that isn’t true at all, we still very much are in an inventory issue, at least in Iowa and Illinois and the Quad Cities. So things are selling really quickly. So one thing that I’ve done well for 13 years is every Tuesday I send out expired letters. So I go through the last seven days of expired listings. And we know those people want to sell their house or they wouldn’t have put it for sale. And sometimes circumstances change. But I would say that i i get i don’t know two to four listings a year from that. And a lot of times it’s just they picked they just called any agent and maybe didn’t have a good experience or maybe their house just wasn’t marketed for Not really. But to me in this market, at least here, everything is selling. So an expired listing is a really good way to get a new listing. So I started that 13 years ago, and it still works. That’s D.J. Paris 25:12amazing. So So I want to I want to break this down for anyone who’s not familiar with what expireds are. So these are obviously listings that have expired and there are services that you can subscribe to, for really very inexpensive pricing that will get that will serve you up daily, here are the expires or you can obviously look on your your MLS system and set up searches for that. But it’s the law, a lot of companies will provide these, you know, these daily leads to you. The problem is they sell those leads to lots of different agents. And so what Sarah’s doing, that’s very unique is typically when people hear maybe you should call expireds is that calling process, I’m gonna call the the homeowner. And that can work, it certainly can work, the challenge is that homeowners probably getting a lot of phone calls, especially when those leads become available, because when it expires, all these lead companies push it out to all of the people that are purchasing them. And so the person might get 10 phone calls in a day and you might be number eight, and they’re gonna be like, Ah, stop calling. It has nothing to do with you. So it’s Sarah does, which is really a lot softer. If she sends a mailer out do you do like a letter or postcard? What it’s just Sarah Dewulf 26:17a it’s just a letter. And it’s and it’s addressed right to them in handwriting, but the letter itself is tight. Yes. And so it’s it’s very simple, two, maybe three paragraphs of just a note not an obligation, we can get together kind of talk about different strategies. And it works. And I’d be happy to share it with anyone that’s listening. So email or shoot me D.J. Paris 26:39a message, please, please do that is so generous, we’ll provide Sarah’s contact information in the show notes so you can reach out to her to get her expired a letter, although if you’re in her market area, let’s not do that. But anywhere else, I will be teasing. There are no secrets in real estate. But we are so grateful that you shared that. And so this is really smart. And I want to break this down just a little bit further. So every Tuesday or once a week makes sense. Yeah. Every Tuesday, Sarah sees all the expires that have come in in the past week. And she sends this letter out hand writes the envelope, because what we what do we know, handwritten envelopes get opened, regular envelopes get thrown away. So handwrite your envelopes inside just just you know, a standard letter. And, and, and Sarah said she gets anywhere from two to four listings a year. Now that might not sound like a lot for sending out all those mailers. By the way, a lot of these lead companies that send you expireds can also send out mailers for you, although I don’t know if they can do the handwriting. So Sarah, Sarah does that manually, which is probably the better way to do it. But you could technically automate it if you really wanted to. But the idea is that this is still a cashflow, positive marketing expense, because, you know, if she’s sending out mailers, I’m assuming it still nets you, you know, two to four deals a year, it’s gotta pay for all of the mailers I’m guessing easily. Yes, easily. So it’s kind of a no brainer, like there’s no reason to not do it. And it doesn’t require that much work. Your assistant, I’m assuming does the majority of the heavy lifting there? Yep. Boy, that is a such a brilliant strategy, guys. She just gave you a basically something that should pay for itself. Now every market is different. And maybe if you’re in Metro Chicago, maybe that’s different than, you know, a more rural area, Sara’s not necessarily in a rural area, but a much smaller group of cities. So perhaps the you know, but I don’t know, maybe the competition is even more fierce where she has to. But regardless, it’s a heck of a good idea. And you just got to go try it for like two years. I’d say if you do it for two years, I’d be shocked. If you didn’t get and use her letter, she’s gonna give you the exact letter she uses that literally wins business. So please reach out to her that is awesome. So so now that now that things have changed with respect to where the market is, what are some of the things so in addition to expireds? You know, what are you doing for member referral perspective? Like, how are you staying in touch with your sphere. Sarah Dewulf 29:08So the biggest thing that I do after every closing is AD, any of the clients on social media, it’s the best way to keep in touch and to be you always want to be top of mind awareness. So when someone asks, Hey, who’s the realtor you would call? I’m number one, the biggest thing that I didn’t want to happen is that we close the transaction and they never hear from me again. And five years later, what was her name again, and I don’t want that. So I another thing that I do is if I have clients that maybe I sold the house to them five years ago and they got married, I’ll I don’t know if you know what small woods is, but it’s a it’s an online, if there’s a wedding photo, it goes in a wood frame, and it’s customized to them and you can make them any size. And so whether they live here or they live some they’ve moved away, we’ll mail that to their house and it’s probably, I don’t know, 50 or $60 maybe so it’s not the cheapest but it’s also not the most expensive, and it has the biggest income impact because it’s so emotional. It’s, oh my gosh, this is our family, it’s it’s a great thing to hang in their house. D.J. Paris 30:09So how do you get the float? How do you get the photo, if Sarah Dewulf 30:13they post it on Facebook, so D.J. Paris 30:15so you don’t ask for it, you just search through social media, you see if they have some sort of engagement photo, or wedding photo, or something that they seem to think is important to them. And then you take that photo, and you just do this without them even knowing and it just shows up on their door, it just shows Sarah Dewulf 30:30up at their door and says, Congratulations, wishing you a lifetime of happiness. And same with babies. That’s another big one. So I, the biggest blessing I think in real estate is clients that become friends. And not everyone, of course, but the majority, I would say become my friend. And it’s important to be a good friend. It’s not just real estate, but I also want to be the person that if they move here and they know no one Hey, who’s a good doctor? Where should I get my hair done? Just little things that I can maybe answer for them or give them suggestions I want to be their go to and all things real estate. D.J. Paris 31:06By the way, Sarah is the go to for dermatologists in her area, because I certainly am sorry, that was that was an easy joke. I just Yes. But but it is. But it is a really good point. By the way, everybody get your annual dermatologist appointment. And in fact, here’s a little pro tip, don’t leave the office before scheduling the next years, because you’re going to forget, that’s what I do every year, never leave a doctor’s office without scheduling the next appointment. Otherwise, if you’re like me, you won’t remember. But it’s really important because if I was moving to the Quad Cities, I would need a dermatologist I would need, you know, a bunch of doctors, right a general person, I might need a sports medicine person. And I wouldn’t know where to go. I mean, I guess you can look that up online, sort of, but I’d much rather have referrals. And so you want to be the I’m guessing you want to be the hub of all things. You know, service related, whether it’s real estate or not for your clients. Is that accurate? Yes, Sarah Dewulf 32:00yes. And mostly it’s, I want to keep the relationship going after closing. So that six months down the road, three years down the road, whatever it is, we’re still touching base the whole way through. By D.J. Paris 32:10the way back to the the the small woods, the small wood idea which I’m looking at it right now I pulled it up while you were talking. Sarah does this on an anniversary, but you don’t even have to do it on an anniversary like it literally could be done at any time. So it’s something that if you’re like I don’t know, when my clients anniversary is no problem, just find a picture of them, send it to them randomly, they will in fact, maybe even not on their anniversary would even be maybe more unexpected, although on their anniversary is amazing as well. But and that’s the other thing, too is everyone should know this information, you should reach out to your clients and say, hey, you know, I like to I like to know, wedding anniversary so that I can possibly, you know, send something. So if you need to get that information, you can literally just ask your clients for it. I don’t think anyone would would say I don’t want you to have that information. You want to know what the children’s ages are? You want to know, major life events stuff. So did they get a new job? Did they you know, what are they moving, obviously, is important. But, you know, these are important things. Because if if Sarah knows that somebody’s child is, you know, a junior in college or junior in high school, while they’re probably looking at colleges, or maybe you know, depending on the family, that that may be something they’re doing. So she now knows, oh, well. Maybe I could do something nice for them. You know, when she’s ready to leave for college, or whatever. The important part is she Sarah now has information she can choose to do something with, which is this is all the fun stuff of real estate too, right? Sarah Dewulf 33:35Yes, right? Yeah. I’m trying to think of anything. Oh, closing gifts are another big deal. I think a lot of times agents either forget or don’t want to do that. And it really kind of seals the deal for me, I feel like where I would say nine times out of 10 if they don’t already have some sort of like ring doorbell I give a ring doorbell at closing and sometimes a gift card to a local restaurant. I tried to never forget kids and dogs. So there’ll be we have a place called Freddy’s fritters here. And it’s a custom dog treat company. So we’ll throw in treats for them or ice cream for the kids something so that they know that I care about their family and I’m really excited for them on their purchase or their sale. D.J. Paris 34:16Yeah, I love that. Again, these are and these are things that don’t have to be necessarily expensive. They can even, you know, be free. There’s certain ways you can celebrate people, you know, the things that are important in their life. It doesn’t necessarily need to cost a lot. But it is something that most of the other service professionals in that consumers life are not even going to know about. They’re not going to know about their anniversary, they’re not going to know about their birthdays, unless they happen to know and they get that automated email saying happy birthday. This is a real opportunity to to really be able to touch somebody like Sarah was saying at a deep emotional level and find out what’s important to them and and be be there to to to celebrate with them and support them when they need it. I So let’s talk about the basics. So what are the basics of building a real estate business? Because I totally agree that this is the year to return to fundamentals. Because we know we can’t control the market. We can’t control inventory, we can’t control rates, but we can control our activity. In fact, it’s about the only thing we can control. So what are you doing right now just to stay busy? Yeah. Sarah Dewulf 35:23So I tried to just do the same things that I’ve been doing for the last 13 years. And it’s not rocket science. And it’s, I think social media is so great, because it’s an easy way to stay top of mind. But it’s not everything. And I see a lot of agents or lenders or whatever it is, that are maybe all in on social media, and they are killing it, and videos. And that’s all important, but then their sales don’t reflect that. So it can’t be the only piece but it’s a big piece. So I tried to just post stories and videos and different posts that are engaging, and not just something that, oh, there’s a boring house that nobody really cares about. So I guess it’s as a new agent, some things that I would have done differently, aside from the Google reviews is, I have a mailing list that’s on an Excel spreadsheet, but I don’t have an email list. And that is ridiculous. I should. And so that’s something that I’m going to be working on and something that I wish that I would have done 13 years ago, email is not going away, of course. And so I think it’s a big tool and a way to stay connected with people. So that’s a goal of mine that I’m working on. Another thing for new agents is maybe you’re not super busy right now. And I have some friends that got in the business and 2020. And it was easy. They just answered their phone. And we’re selling houses because it was such a crazy market. Well, now it’s harder again. And so I would join as many different networking groups, volunteer opportunities, it’s all about at the beginning, it’s not really what you know, because you don’t know a lot. It’s who you know. And so how do you pair those two things with who I know, while I’m learning everything I should know. Another really important thing I think, is learning the contracts inside out forward backwards, because I remember when I was 24, and a very seasoned agent would challenge me on something in the contract. And I knew the answer. And I knew I was right. But it’s hard to have that confidence. So the more you can know the contract and say, Okay, well, page four, paragraph nine talks about inspections. And you might want to go back and read that it feels a lot better when you know it, and you know it for sure. So learning the forums, I joined our board early on on the forms committee for that reason, so that I could see how other agents were interpreting something. And every form is, you know, different interpretation by different attorneys or whoever it is. But I think the more that you can know the basics, the better off you’ll be in the long run. I want D.J. Paris 37:48to I want to talk about this. So Sarah is talking about joining her volunteering, serving on at her local association. You can also serve at the state level, and of course, at the national level. But the first place that people typically start is their local level. And so they reach out to their local association say, Hey, do you have any committees that maybe need need some members, and you can apply? I know that here in Chicago for the association I belong to is 22 different committees, lots of opportunities there. And in addition to obviously, serving the industry and and learning more about the contracts. What also happens, and I’m curious to get Sarah’s opinion is you also get to meet all of the other really great people in the industry who are wanting to be of service, you get to develop relationships with them. And that only will help you as you continue to do deals, because you may run across a deal with that person. And, you know, again, just having a good connection with them being similarly minded being like, Hey, I volunteer with association with you. That is that is going to help influence indirectly, you know, a deal. Sarah Dewulf 38:53Yes, yeah, it’s I think it’s important to meet as many agents as you can when you’re new. We as as an agent, that’s now been 13 years, there’s constantly new agents, and especially in the last couple of years. So not all of them make it and I think it’s just the more people you can know, the better just from a sphere of influence standpoint. D.J. Paris 39:14Yeah, I agree. I wanted to ask about social media. Just want one thing about it, because I know it’s important to you, you you don’t over focus on it, which some agents do. But you mentioned posting content that was that was helpful. What what types of content whether it’s video or static posts, are you posting is it more about your life and what you deal with as a non realtor? Or is it more real estate related? Or is it a mix? Sarah Dewulf 39:38Mostly real estate related? I do try to throw in my kids every once in a while or a funny story of something that happened just to make it personal. I think people sometimes you can get on social media and that’s all just real estate, real estate real estate. And when someone Google’s Saratoga realtor, I want them to know me and so I’m trying to get better at video and that’s kind of The goal for this coming year is to really focus more on just being out there for people to see me more not necessarily the houses that I’m selling, even though that’s important as well. Great. D.J. Paris 40:09So that makes sense. And I also want to highlight this point is Sarah is a top top producer, and doesn’t have an email list. So guys, you don’t have to be up, you don’t have to be, you won’t be perfect. There’s always going to be systems that aren’t in place. And Sarah’s like, hey, 13 years, I don’t really have a good email list. But that’s a really easily solvable problem, right? She can literally just contact every single person she’s ever done a deal with and said, Hey, I’m just updating my records. I need that. So obviously, every problem has a solution. But, guys, I also want you to know that people at the very top they have issues too. There’s there’s things Sara is is a crazy success. And yet she doesn’t have an email list. And I’m not I’m not doing saying that Deepika. I’m saying that to humanize her that Sarah Dewulf 40:53Yes, right. Yes. Every but not all perfect. Yeah. And it’s always workable. Yeah. It’s always worth taking things and scaling. And D.J. Paris 41:02yeah, and this is where when you take a step back in your business, and you say, Oh, there’s the thing I don’t have, I need to work on that, as opposed to just all the things flying at you customer service related during the day, that eat up a lot of time. And then it’s hard to start take a step back, so important to look at all of your systems. What wanted to get one more idea. So if you were a brand new agent, today, you talked about social media talked about obviously, building up your sphere, what would you tell a new agent today to do join Sarah Dewulf 41:38as many different volunteer opportunities that you can. And that’s mostly because in the beginning, you might not be on appointments all day long, you’re at the office kind of okay, twiddling your thumbs on what to do. So it’s a way to get out there. Because when you’re new, you might not have the money to donate, but you have your time. And so that that is the big thing that I would do is join as many different committees or volunteer things that you can Google reviews, you want them to come from your clients and things. But even if you need to get a few from your boyfriend, or your best friend, do it. So those two things, and then I, from my own personal experience, I would do an email list right away, as well as the mailing list. And that’s been big for me from the beginning as my mailing list. D.J. Paris 42:23Yeah, well, we’re talking about branding, we’re talking about doing repeatable actions that will over time, you know, get your clients to associate you with real estate, especially if you’re newer. And you know, it’s easy to poopoo, the refrigerator magnet idea just because it’s such an old idea. However, if you do think about it, you want something that they’re going to see constantly with your name on it. And that is about as good of a gift as any, because everyone’s in the fridge all day long. So this idea of seeing your name constantly, is it really is a good idea that, you know, not everyone puts fridge magnets up. But for people who do they want, they will see your name. And that’s a good thing. And Sarah Dewulf 43:05I’ve done it for so long now that every fall and when it gets to my clients are like, where is it? When’s it coming? And then they post it, and then I share it. And so it’s just kind of a fun thing that ends up paying for itself easily. D.J. Paris 43:16Yeah, I mean, the downside is you’ll have to do with the rest of your career. The upside is it works. Yes, brilliant, brilliant idea. Well, I think this is a great presenter, you’ve given us so much good information. I think this is a great place to wrap up, by the way. If it is are you looking to add any members to your team currently? Or are you happy with with your production and to kind of just work on your own stuff? Sarah Dewulf 43:43Yeah, yeah, no, we, we opened a local real office called Buy, Sell build Quad Cities. And so we are looking to grow that as well as real. And I’m happy to just answer any questions if I can help anyone. So reach out to me send me a message on Instagram or an email, I’ll respond and send you the expired listing or anything that I can help with. D.J. Paris 44:03That’s awesome. And if you’re an agent in the in the Quad Cities, and it maybe isn’t getting the help that they deserve, or need real is an awesome company, too. I’m a big fan of theirs and they have some cool incentives that other firms typically don’t have. So give reach out to Sarah. She will have all of her contact information in the show notes and also please follow her on Instagram, which is Sarah dewulf que si realtor again, that’ll be in the show notes as well and visit her website, which is a sorry, just lost your website. I’m sorry. It’s Sarah Dewulf 44:34okay. It’s Sarah dewulf realtor.com. D.J. Paris 44:36That’s it. Sarah Wolf realtor.com on behalf of our audience, Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. You are an really impressive agent, mother and business owner affects multiple different businesses. And so it’s just amazing how you’re able to do all of that, and also be of service to our podcast. So thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Cute. Yeah. And on behalf of Sarah and myself, we want to thank our audience we just Yeah, thanks. We just crossed over the 500 episode Mark, we are so grateful to all of you. Please tell a friend think of one other agent that could use some of this information right now and send them a link to this episode, we would appreciate it and also, leave us a review wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Let us know what you think of the show good and bad so that we can continue to improve ourselves. It helps us out a lot. All right, Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you to everyone listening, and we will see on the next episode. Thank you

Welcome to the October episode of Learn with a Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate! In this episode Joel discusses the importance of delegation, how to make it a success and how this will help you grow your business. Joel talks about events he organizes every month. Joel also discusses rates and what he’s doing to stay busy during this period. Last, Joel talks about partnering with him and discusses his weekly newsletter. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com and 773.654.2049. This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks. Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00There’s a strong argument to be made for buying a home, even during a high interest rate environment. We’re going to talk about why stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show. Welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris, I’m your guide. I’m your host through the show. And today once again is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel Schaub from guaranteed rate now, Joel is the vice president of lending guaranteed rate. He’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. And he’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is that he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction last year alone, Joe gave back over four over $300,000 in closing costs to his buyers who worked with him and that puts Joe’s volume in the top 1/10 of 1% of all lenders nationwide. In fact, there’s 400,000 loan officers in the country and Joel is ranked number 137 out of that 400,000 Incredible last year. He did his highest amount of or he actually did 126 million last year. But let’s talk about this year because this is the most impressive number I really want you to focus on. Because this is really why I have Joel on the show. So we know that this is a tough year. This is 2023 We’re wrapping up. This is one of the toughest years for anyone in the real estate industry. Lenders, of course included. But this year alone, he’s closed 216 purchase transactions for just shy of $93 million. So when we’re talking to Joel that I want really us to distill what he’s doing, that is enabling him to continue to have success when so many loan officers and so many real estate agents are struggling. Joel has the secrets. We’re going to listen to him today. But if you’re looking for a loan officer, we cannot more highly recommend Joel he’s the very best we’ve ever worked with. He’s my loan officer as well. And I would not hesitate to refer him to everybody I know. So please consider that my personal recommendation, Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com J oel@rate.com. And email him because he has this great weekly newsletter where he tells you what’s going on in the world of lending so that you can better communicate that to your clients. You don’t have to read everything he does the reading tells you exactly what you need to know. But please reach out to him. You can also send them a text message or call him at 773-654-2049. Let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. I know Joe Joel Schaub, and Joel Schaub 3:53thanks again DJ for having me on. And it’s funny when you were saying those numbers right, like we were talking before we got on the air here in terms of just everyone has lower production and you can busy regardless of how many deals you’re doing. It’s it’s about making sure that you stay active and keep your mind positive. So we’re gonna go through all the things that I’m doing and I’m an open book and I’m really excited to be here again, I D.J. Paris 4:19want to I want to ask you a question because this I think I’m going through this process myself we have a consultant that we’ve hired and you know, I we’ve never really been through this but he is having me go through a time value of money exercise to figure out what my what I’m currently making per hour, you know, as a I’m not an hourly employee, of course, but Joel Schaub 4:39wait a minute. Oh my gosh, I want to know about this. That sounds so D.J. Paris 4:44good. Yeah, cuz to know what my time is worth such that then I can say okay, I have these tasks to do. And is this something I could delegate out and actually pay somebody to do that isn’t you know, where I should be focusing my energy because it’s maybe not worth my time, or it’s something that just bogs me down to you, I feel, have really understood this and and really leveraged, you know, you have you have a great team in place you are the figurehead, you are the one in it, the front of everything. But I also know you’re really great at delegating out so that you can be in front of your clients as much as possible. So I would love to just sort of get a little bit of understanding of how you know, this is something you should do versus something you could you know, have someone else do because your time is better spent, you know, doing other things. When Joel Schaub 5:34I was first starting out, I wanted to control every part of the process, right? Like, that’s what I thought my value was, is that I can control it from beginning to end. And then I realized I am such a better delegator, I can absolutely hire somebody to do the job, I can train them. And I can make sure that they can do the job 80% as good as I can, so that I can move on and actually make a lot more money per hour, and I pay my people well. And the number one thing you want to do is try to replace yourself. And that’s the thing that I have done and built the team by not firing people that are exactly like you finding what your weaknesses are, and then hiring people to do those jobs for you. D.J. Paris 6:17Yeah, you really have threaded the needle so well with that, because it is a balancing act. Because the fear, of course, and I really I’m probably speaking for everyone who’s listening is that if I don’t control every part of the process, number one, like you said, maybe they are the person won’t do it as well. And maybe my clients might think, well, Joel should be doing everything. And the funny thing is you do almost everything because I’ve been your client and I know what the experience is like it is not, you are not just the figurehead who is sitting on top of a mountain that can’t be reached you are personally involved in I don’t think that’s how it works with all the big loan officer teams. I know. In fact, I know it isn’t. I know there are teams, where the person who is the face of it isn’t really interfacing with clients at all at all. And you have really figured out how to still have those great client relationships and run a business and a team. So I really applaud you for that. It’s I don’t know of any other team that quite does it the way you do it. So it’s amazing, I Joel Schaub 7:17want to share it. You’re exactly right. So if you’re if you’re a real estate agent right now, and I don’t know the production, right, and let’s say that you’re right now doing $10 million a year of production, and you want to take it to the next level, the one hire that you need to have is you need to be able to duplicate yourself and have somebody replying to your emails as you Okay. And so what I have here is I have a director of business operations, who’s in my inbox all day long. And he runs me like a puppet for real, like, make sure that my calendar is set, returns the phone calls to clients, and schedules everything as well as replying as me and setting up my day, my week and my month. And at first I thought this would never work. And now for two years, having somebody be you in your inbox completely frees you up to go out and get one more listing, go out and work with one more buyer. Your value isn’t replying to emails, or even answering the phone, I get the phone calls that are needed to me, but the buyers and the sellers really feel connected because somebody’s always answering and replying quickly. And D.J. Paris 8:27you know, the thing that I admire most I know this is sounding like this is a big commercial for you. But it is because of course I feel this this authentically towards you is this, this idea of delegation is really, really interesting to me, because what you what you seem to be able to do more effectively than a lot of other agents is and other loan officers is really understanding where you’re best suited. So you’re talking about delegating out, you outwork everyone in your in the in the activities that are generating the most income for you. So I know for example, you are just constantly at events and I think this is a great thing. You’re either hosting events or you’re going to events, almost, you know, most nights of the month really I know how hard you work and I think Realtors could really take a page out of your book and say hey, this this is a great way to stay in front of in your case realtors who can help bring business to you. And in a realtors case clients that could you know, obviously become become their clients. So can you talk a little bit about events and how you think about them and Joel Schaub 9:35I have a 30 day period. It’s not untypical that I’m doing 20 different events in any given month like today’s as we’re taping this I’ve had three events in the last two days, and they can range from small events where I’m helping real estate agents grow their business simple, happy hours, flower making events putting bouquets together. Wine tea He’s doing events, or right now one of the lowest cost events that we can do as a real estate agent is hiring a photographer right now and doing the fall and winter photos in advance. Right? Yeah. So this Saturday, I’m actually we have a Santa Claus, it’s a lot cheaper to get a Santa Claus in October, DJ. Yeah, that’s D.J. Paris 10:19a good idea. What a smart idea. For real. So Joel Schaub 10:23we have a Santa Claus. And we have a real estate agent. And so the Santa Claus for a three hour period is literally $250. And then we’re hiring a photographer, all in this event cost about $500. In this real estate agent has 60 families coming, they’re going to get their photos taken. And the agent then sends high quality photos via email, so that their clients can do a Christmas card, Hanukkah card, New Year’s card. And it’s so inexpensive. But agents don’t know how to do that. So partner with a lender that can actually split that cost with you. And that’s one great thing that we’re doing. And it’s just all the way up and down the spectrum from low cost to high cost. There’s things that we’re doing right now to grow the business. Six months out of the year, I’m doing 20 events per month. D.J. Paris 11:13I don’t know how you find the energy and the stamina for it, but you do and you’re great at it. And that’s what everyone in the local market knows Joel because he is so out in the public. You know, he is he is he is immersed in, in the, in our industry. And that is where you need to be. Let’s talk about rates. So rates are, you know, right now approaching the eights. At the time of this taping, we know it’s it’s a, you know, not the Preferred rates that anyone listening would like to present to their clients, of course, but this is where we’re at. So you are still going strong, you are still doing well. So I am excited to talk to you, because everyone else tells me Oh, it’s just uh, everyone’s sort of in the doldrums about it right now, but you are not. So I’m excited to learn what you are doing to stay busy and what you might recommend to our agents. Joel Schaub 12:05All right to either rates right now you’re exactly right DJ, as of today, they’re on a fast track towards 8%. And a lot of clients right now without the perfect credit scenario are well into the percents on a standard 30 year fixed rate mortgage, if they have any lower credit scores or lower down payments or unique properties, like a two to four unit building or an investment property. Okay, a perfect credit score, credit score, I should say borrower with 20 or 25% down, can absolutely get rates in the low to the mid 70s Right now, with minimal discount points. But that’s a far cry from even a year ago when they were in the low sixes okay. And so that’s kind of the atmosphere that we’re playing in right now. And so I focus on education, and you as an agent shouldn’t be doing the same thing. I have a hot take right now that I’ve been telling a lot of people and I’d be curious if you want me to share this hot take D.J. Paris 13:07all right, break breaking a break. We’re not breaking news, but we’re gonna we’re gonna dramatic pause for the hot take. Go ahead. Joel Schaub 13:15Well, this week, I’ve talked to several clients. And they were shocked when I said this. And once I explained it, they said, Wow, that makes sense. And two of them actually went under contract this week after going through this. So I said, now that you’re out looking at places with so and so realtor, I really hope that we actually go under contract before rates drop, I really hope rates stay as high as they are right now before you find the place. What do you mean I go, D.J. Paris 13:44so I don’t have any effects in front of you, but to be a screeching record. Joel Schaub 13:51And this is the truth. As soon as rates drop, if all of a sudden tomorrow rates were at five and a half percent, we’re gonna have a flood of buyers back into the market. And I explained, we had this I was living through it in 2020 and 2021. And most of the people that are listening here, if you were in the business, you remember how great it was, but it was terrible. Okay, terrible D.J. Paris 14:11for buyers. It was the hardest thing ever. Joel Schaub 14:14So follow me here, right? I said if we buy this home right now, and the rates are in the high sevens and good for you that you can afford it. Good for you that you have the downpayment, there are so many people that I talked to that actually unfortunately can’t qualify right now. And if they’re on the sidelines, you think it’s just one or two people. It’s 1000s of people that have this brilliant idea to wait for rates to come down. Okay, so if you buy that home at $500,000 today and rates are in the high sevens, as soon as those rates are in the fives, somebody’s gonna be willing to pay 50 grand more for your home because the payment is going to be so much less. And it’s true. And I don’t know where this is going to end DJ but this is absolutely what the next step in real estate is going to be rates We’ll be coming down. And that’s going to drive values up. And here’s why I know it to be the case here for real. One second, there’s no more inventory, we still aren’t getting new construction up to the level that’s going to put so much excess inventory into the market. And two, we don’t have any sellers that are really dying to trade their 2% or 3% rates in. So there’s not going to be a massive inventory for a while. D.J. Paris 15:29It makes all the sense in the world. And then so you you’re basically buying high but what you’re also you’re not buying high, the rate is just high, you’re not necessarily overpaying would that’s the important thing to remember, we always think about rates, we don’t think about prices much. And price and rates are inversely related. So they are negatively correlated, as one goes up, the other typically goes down. So the reality of it is Joel is is so right. And this is a wonderful perspective and paradigm shift to give to your clients to say, Hey, would you rather compete with 50 other buyers right now who can get in? We’re not right now. But what if rates were to come down right now? Would you want to compete with 50 people, that’s what it was like a couple years ago. And remember, people were buying sight unseen. They were waiving all sorts of contingencies. They were waiving inspections, they were just sort of throwing caution to the wind, because rates were so low, and a lot of people overpaid. And so let’s say you buy a place now and it’s in the sevens or the eights, whatever the rate may be less competition, you’re probably going to pay less. And when rates drop, guess what you get to do refinance. Take Joel Schaub 16:36a perfect example, let’s just even go lower in price, because a lot of my stuff that I help clients with aren’t these multimillion dollar homes, everybody thinks, oh, I don’t want to bother you with a $300,000 transaction. But that’s the bread and butter. These are the people that listen to me, they take advice, I can coach them on the next steps for homeownership. If you buy a home today at $300,000, and we put down 30 grand, when rates drop, your value will be 30 grand more, it’s going to go up people will pay more for home, if their payment is based on a 5% rate than an 8% rate. Okay, so now we put in 30 grand, and in a couple of years, we’re going to have 60 or 70 grand worth of equity. I’m not saying we sell but that is the strategy. That is what’s going to happen. So if you’re a realtor right now, and you have buyers saying I want to wait, you say well, yeah, I want to wait till rates come down to but listen to this. If you bought a home now and we put a low down payment. As soon as rates drop, you’re going to have a major increase in value to your place. That’s going to help you it’s a different talking point than what the media is talking about how bad rates are right now, okay? Be the bearer of good news. D.J. Paris 17:51You know, I want to really encourage everybody to, you know, if this didn’t just change your perspective, at least a little bit. By the way, I’ll give you a stat that changed my perspective yesterday, I’m going to add this in it’s a little, in addition to what we’re talking about now has nothing to do with this. But I’m going to give you an example. So this really changed my my mind yesterday. And then what you just said really helped me feel better about the current conditions of the market as well. So I’m going to give you guys something that I learned on top of what Joel just said. So we know that longevity, right? We know that the average age, at least in America, people live typically into their early 70s. That’s kind of when the actuary tables say, you know, we’re going to start expiring women live a little bit longer than men, but it’s early 70s to mid 70s. However, that’s not actually the really the true numbers. The real number is if you make it to 40, this is just blew my mind, if you make it to 40. You actually now your life expectancy is in the later 80s, which is really cool. And I heard that and it made me feel better. Because now all of a sudden, it changed my perspective. I went, Oh, I got a little bit probably a little bit more time left. And this is what Joel just did. He basically gave you a lifeline. He gave you some information that you can go out there in the world. And actually, it’s not just a rosy sort of, hey, this is the nice side of looking at high rates. It’s actually logical, and it makes sense. So please do me a favor, take this episode. Anyone who’s bummed out that you know, that’s a realtor or a loan officer who’s also struggling, please send this to them. This is what everybody needs to hear. So we can go out there and capture more business and get more listings and get more buyers. I Joel Schaub 19:28guarantee this is what’s going to happen. I don’t have the crystal ball in terms of when rates are going to drop. But I’ll reiterate this piece, if you’re buying something now, way above market rate, right we know the feds have pushed rates way too high for a reason to really stamp out inflation. So stick with me here. These rates should not be this high. They have to be this high to actually pull the inflation numbers down. If you’re buying a piece of real estate at these higher numbers, when rates come down and they will come down that property’s worth more? Okay. I don’t know, in the future, what’s going to happen? I don’t know where this all ends, but this next time period, this is truly what’s going to happen. Buy something now, in that price point that’s under a half a million, you know, it’s going to go up. Okay. That’s what’s that’s what we’re seeing. D.J. Paris 20:17One other question I have now I’m we’re going to switch to it to a different topic, but the same basic idea. Do first time homebuyers in your experience because you work not just with people buying or selling their second property or third, you know, they’ve worked with with loans before they have an expectation of where rates they’d like rates to be. But a first time homebuyer might not have any expectation, right? So do my question to you is do most first time homebuyers even care about the rate? Joel Schaub 20:48They’re very concerned with the rate? I don’t think this is the answer you’re thinking, but they really are. Because it’s one of the only ways that you feel like you have any damn control, we all know that it’s bad. Makes sense. And so like I can’t get, there’s no inventory, I can’t find the home that I want. But I’m smart, I have good credit, I have good income, I should get the best rate that’s out there. So I’m gonna go scour the internet, and I’m gonna go find the dark corners of the place that’s got the cheapest number. And that’s the wrong way to do it. But I understand the logic behind, there’s probably only one thing I can control is going out and trying to find a really cheap mortgage rate. And that’s similar to we’ve talked about this so many times before details, like, do you want discount eye surgery? Right? Right, I get in the group on for the coronary bypass surgery, or do I actually want somebody who’s done it for years. So there’s a happy medium, and I teach people all the time when they call me, I’m like, I might not be for you. I might not be the person if you’re calling 17 banks saying, What is your rate today? Are you the cheapest? There’s always somebody cheaper, right? There’s only one cheapest person. And what you were really asking is, what is the value that I’m getting working with you? And that’s what you that’s what you’re looking at? D.J. Paris 22:05Yeah, I mean, look, if you’ve been a realtor long enough, we know some of these discount loan shops who, you know, hey, again, as Joel said, it’s really attractive to chase rates, of course, who doesn’t want the lowest rate, but the rate itself is just one little piece of the entire puzzle. And the real, the real challenge is, can everybody work together to actually close this deal? And a lot of times those while we all know it without saying any names, of course, we know some of these firms are not as good at doing that. And so of course, working with somebody again, just like Joel said, Do you pay? Do you want to not that Joel is necessarily more expensive, but if he is, there’s a reason for it. And it’s not because you know, he just wants, you know, more money, it’s because his value is that he can get deals closed, and he got my deal closed. He gets lots of other people’s deals closed, that are friends of mine, and everybody raves about him. Joe wanted to ask one more thing about partnering with you as an agent, because I know that you have you do partner, you do all these events? Can you talk a little bit about that. And if anyone’s listening who is looking for a partnership, maybe what what you might suggest, Joel Schaub 23:13after the last episode dropped, I didn’t even tell you this, I’m glad to share this with you live, I got about 40 different emails within like an hour period saying what you shared was amazing. I want to do follow up. And I’ve talked to about seven or eight people out of those 40. And really built some great friends across the United States of just agents that I’m just giving back to and just having real conversations with and we’re actually closing transactions in the company that I work for is in all 50 states. But they always say, Hey, do you work in Florida? Or do you work in Texas? And the answer is always yes. And right now, it’s it’s important to have somebody that’s local for you. And if you don’t have somebody that’s local, really what you want is a partner that wants to contribute money. And this is where I’m gonna get in trouble. Okay, loan officers hate me saying this. But I’m one of the most generous people, I want to find ways to give back to my agents here in Chicago. And that’s where I live. And that’s where 85% of my business DJ is in the downtown Chicago market. So wherever you’re at, in the United States, I can teach and I can help and I can coach but the one thing that I can do is even if you don’t send any business to me, I want to get you on the newsletter so that you can get those bite size pieces of information that you can share with your buyers or sellers to elevate your game. You know without the jargon, what the hell’s going on, right so we can teach you every single week something new, and if it just gives one more seller to you, or gives one more buyer to you. That’s that’s the reason you tune in to DJ show. D.J. Paris 24:57Great, well, the easiest way to do that to get on his mailing list. And I do encourage you to do that. Because every week usually Wednesdays, his team sends that out. And it is chock full of information, little bite sized pieces that you can use. Like what Joel was saying today about, hey, he actually, his hot take was, it’s actually possibly a really good time to buy right now that will stop people dead in their tracks right now. Oh, it is why, right. Joel is gonna give you well, he just said it today. But he also said every Wednesday or Thursday, when he sends that out, you get exactly that kind of information, Wouldn’t you love to be able to call everybody you know, who’s on the sidelines right now and say, hey, look, I know, you might feel that it’s not a good time, I would like to talk a little bit more about why it might be a good time to buy. I know if somebody said that to me, I would go I’m my ears are open, tell me. And that’s what the kind of stuff that Joel sends out to you. And it’s really, really good stuff. So please, please, I encourage everybody listening, get on his newsletter, and of course, also reach out to him. joel@rate.com is the best place to do that. Joel, any parting words? Maybe something, you are such a positive person, you always sort of are looking for the opportunities and the challenges and you get excited about challenges. What how do you stay? How do you stay positive through difficult times? Joel Schaub 26:18Well, there’s a lot of ways is a positive right now. And I’ll share a story of just somebody that I was speaking to that was down and I asked this simple question. And I’m going to ask it to your audience to do you just have that listing right now that just isn’t selling. It’s just sitting there and you’re like, What the hell do I need to do to get a buyer into this home, right, so it’s sitting on the market, I want to go through a strategy right now that I did a month ago. And within one week, it was under contract, and they’ve already closed this deal. So before we start going through and doing another price reduction, let’s just talk about the to one rate by down strategy, and how we can get the seller credit to really boost the potential for buyers to come in and buy this place. So let’s set the groundwork. Here we have a listing. And this listing is a $500,000 single family home, and it is not selling. And we have a choice, do we make a reduction to 475. And hopefully that moves the needle DJ. And as I was talking to the client, the agent about what clients would come in and how that move the needle, I broke down the numbers. So I’m going to do that here and just talk about how I $500,000 sale, going down to 475. What that does, and how there’s a much better way. And once you know this better way, there’s going to be it’s going to be music to your ears, okay, so I broke it down like this, I said at $475,000. It’s a $25,000 difference. And that $25,000 At today’s rates, great. That does mean the buyer has about $150 less per month, that’s great. $150 less per month might be enough to get that buyer in the door, but I had a better solution. And I know a lot of you already know this, but let’s go through the specifics of how it helps you and helps the seller. So I suggested, let’s get on social media. And let’s promote that the seller is offering to buy down any buyer that comes in for the next two years and get their rates into the fives and sixes. And they knew about the strategy, they just didn’t know how to implement a to one rate by down. Okay, so remember, this is what we’re talking about. So I told them to specifically get on and we did a video together this is on a $500,000 place, the payment is $644 a month less than the home next door that was priced higher. Okay, so all we had to do is offer a 3% seller credit. And the payment now was over $600 A month less for that first year for the buyer coming in. And so if you’re a listing agent, and you have a place before we do a price reduction, let’s offer the buyer a 3% seller credit so that their lender can do a to one rate by down and I know that was wordy, but that’s how we do it. And it really worked. They had a full price offer there was another buyer that had just lost out on deal after deal and with rates going up they didn’t think they were gonna buy it it made all the difference in the world. So it’s a really successful way to do this. D.J. Paris 29:41Yeah, so basically how that works is the seller is buying down the rate so that the buyer feels better about the rate that they’re paying the monthly payment the buyer is doing that for two years, then it will go to you know its original rate or and of course, the person can refinance as well at that time possible. like. So this is a great strategy for sellers. And the challenge I always suspect with this is marketing it like making sure that people know that this property offers. So you were saying social media is a great place, because it’s not going to necessarily pop out of an MLS listing? Oh, by the way, this is a, you have to comb through it to find that. So do you find that that’s really effective to promote that on social media, hey, we’re doing this we’re going to be buying down the rate Joel Schaub 30:25it is. But it’s also really important to actually understand it, right? What is really more important than promoting it as you as an agent need to actually do some research and understand the ins and outs of what it is. So that you can effectively tell the seller as well as sell it. I know it because I was doing this back in 2007. When rates went up, then this is what developments were doing. We had big developments of condo conversions, apartments going to condos, and those condos were sitting stagnant. So the sellers were offering every incentive in the world. And that’s where we really got into buy downs back then, the last couple of years, there was no need to buy down a rate. They were in the twos and threes, right. So now that they’ve gone up, it’s come back into fashion. And most of the people talking about it don’t even know what it is. So work with somebody that actually has done it. And if you haven’t done it, do a little bit of research, go on to Google and talk type in to one rate by downs from the seller. And you’ll get a load of resources that you so once you understand it, you’ll be able to promote it better. And if Google doesn’t give you the answer, just call Joel, I’m happy to spend 10 minutes with you and just go into more detail. But you can do this, it’s a much better way than offering another price reduction because it makes the buyers payment a lot lower for a couple of years. And D.J. Paris 31:53a really, it’s a really cool creative thing that buyers are not going to be as familiar with. So it creates a little bit of exclusivity to the property that you may be listing. And it creates this cool little additional thing that probably 95% of the homes out there on the market don’t all have as well or maybe even high probably 99% Don’t offer that. So that is a really cool thing to just you know, it’s I almost consider it like a little hidden room at a house that’s unique and cool that you know, no other house has. So guys, you know, we want every possibility every possible option to get these homes sold. So this is a great way to attract more people that are maybe a little rate conscious at the time. So great opportunity guys reach out to Joel let’s get on his mailing list. joel@rate.com is his email, you can also reach out to him at 773-654-2049. A guaranteed rate is licensed in all 50 states. So even if you’re somewhere else, or even if you just want advice or you just want some help reach out to Joel he couldn’t be more generous with his time. It is the he is a big believer of givers get so he will always he gives to our show he gives to a lots of people. And so please don’t be shy and reach out to him. Joel on behalf of the audience want to thank thank you for being on we had covered a lot of great ground today talked about Biden’s we talked about you know how to talk about where rates are currently and why it actually may be a great time to purchase. And really just shifting everyone’s attitude and perspective in finding these opportunities today which which are elusive to a lot of people. So we just gave you some great ways, please share it with a friend. But on behalf of Joel and myself, we want to thank our A our agents, our listeners and which are all agents. And by the way, I just wanted to thank everyone personally, we have just crossed over 500 episodes, we’ve crossed over 3 million audio downloads. We are very very thankful and grateful to everyone listening. Please continue to share the show, leave us a review. That’s the other thing that really really helps us unless of course you’re gonna leave a one star review I guess you can leave a one star review to that’s fine. But thankfully most of you don’t but leave a review. Let us know what you think of the show. And let us know how we can improve because that’s our job. So please thank you also support our sponsors and also support our guests like Joel reached out to him. He is awesome. Alright guys, we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks Joel. Joel Schaub 34:21Thanks so much for having me on DJ