The Bitcoin Frontier

Seth Hertlein is the Global Head of Policy at Ledger and one of the earliest, most persistent advocates for bitcoin self-custody in Washington. Known for his “lone ranger” years as the only lobbyist focused on protecting non-custodial rights, he brings a rare combination of securities law expertise, political insight, and deep conviction about individual property rights. In this episode, Seth joins The Last Free Americans to share how he fell down the bitcoin rabbit hole, why self-custody is a return to humanity’s oldest property norms, and how today’s policy battles will define digital freedom for generations. We dig into the evolution of financial intermediaries, the history of natural rights from Aristotle to the framers, and the real political forces lining up for and against self-custody.SUPPORT THE PODCAST:→ Subscribe → Leave a review → Share the show with your friends and family → Send us an email: podcast@unchained.com→ Learn more about Unchained: https://unchained.com/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast → Book a free call with a bitcoin expert: https://unchained.com/consultation?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcastTIMESTAMPS:0:00 – Intro to The Last Free Americans & Seth’s unique role in policy2:20 – How a securities regulator became an “accidental crypto lobbyist”5:03 – Early bitcoin reading, monetary policy, and recognizing its political nature7:43 – The aha moment of self-custody: from Ledger device to first withdrawal12:58 – Ownership vs. possession: how financial markets drifted into full intermediation16:40 – Why self-custody is not new: property as a natural human right22:45 – How centralization overtook markets: certificates, DTCC, and efficiency tradeoffs27:58 – 2021: the year Washington and the industry “woke up” to each other33:10 – Keep Your Coins Act, Canadian truckers, and why lawful peer-to-peer matters38:40 – Property rights, natural law, and the framers’ blind spots on privacy45:55 – Executive Order 6102, takings law, and lessons for bitcoin52:03 – How the Bank Secrecy Act and third-party doctrine became digital surveillance59:42 – The three camps opposing self-custody: nats-ec hawks, socialists, and bureaucracies1:05:40 – The IRS broker rule, CRA repeal, and precedents for stopping overreach1:11:22 – House vs. Senate language: what “retain the right” really means1:17:14 – Odds of passage in 2024 and why Senate floor time is everything1:22:44 – The global landscape: why America is still the last best hope1:27:50 – What comes next: privacy as the next digital freedom frontier1:32:10 – Closing thoughts on restoring founding principles through BitcoinWHERE TO FOLLOW US: → Unchained X: https://x.com/unchained  → Unchained LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/unchainedcom  → Unchained Newsletter: https://unchained.com/newsletter → Joe Kelly’s Twitter: https://x.com/josephkelly  → Seth Hertlein’s Twitter: https://x.com/SethHertlein  

Kent Halliburton, CEO of Sazmining and seasoned Bitcoin entrepreneur, shares his shocking experience of a $220,000 bitcoin scam. He recounts how sophisticated scammers used social engineering tactics to exploit trust and self-interest. Kent highlights the red flags he overlooked during the scam, including unusual cash requests and trust exercises. He discusses vital operational security changes at Sazmining and offers practical advice for safeguarding against cyber threats, emphasizing vigilance and the importance of family code words.

Zack Shapiro, head of legal and policy at the Bitcoin Policy Institute, dives into the importance of self-custody in Bitcoin. He explains how it underpins Bitcoin’s value and connects it to personal freedoms. The conversation touches on outdated laws clashing with peer-to-peer transactions and the implications of the Clarity Act for non-custodial rights. Zack also shares historical lessons about property rights and advocates for the preservation of self-custody in American law, emphasizing its role in ensuring financial independence.

Tim Hite, director of policy at Exodus and a former congressional staffer, dives into the pivotal battle for self-custody rights. He shares the inspiring origins of the Keep Your Coins Act and discusses how property rights are evolving in our digital age. Tim highlights the risks posed by CBDCs to individual rights and contrasts affirming rights versus regulatory restrictions. He also examines how social media is reshaping the legislative landscape and emphasizes the importance of public awareness in defending freedom in the crypto space.

Joe Kelly, co-founder and CEO of Unchained, dives into self-custody and Bitcoin's impact on financial freedom. Growing up in Alaska instilled in him a fierce independence, mirrored in his work promoting self-sufficiency in the digital frontier. He connects the conservation movement to preserving peer-to-peer money and discusses how ETFs can broaden access without capturing Bitcoin’s essence. Joe also highlights the importance of legislative protections for developers and how guided experiences can empower individuals to embrace self-custody.

Pierre Rochard, a key figure in the Bitcoin community and CEO of The Bitcoin Bond Company, dives into the transformative potential of Bitcoin. He discusses how banks holding Bitcoin could enhance financial stability and the evolution of fractional reserve banking in a Bitcoin-dominated world. Pierre also highlights the rise of Bitcoin treasury companies and the concept of sovereign Bitcoin bonds. He argues that government adoption of Bitcoin is not just likely, but inevitable, and stresses the importance of a smooth transition to prevent societal harm.

Marty Bent, a Bitcoin investor and founder of TFTC, dives into how AI is reshaping the Bitcoin landscape. He shares insights on leveraging AI for media production, emphasizing its role in streamlining workflows and enhancing creative projects. The conversation covers the development of the privacy-focused tool Opportunity Cost and discusses how AI spurs decentralization in mining through energy demands. Marty also highlights the potential of AI-generated videos to weave Bitcoin narratives into compelling cultural stories while maintaining quality through expert collaboration.

James Check, co-founder of CheckOnChain, brings his expertise in on-chain analysis to the discussion. He explains why realized cap is a vital adoption metric and how it crossed the $1 trillion mark. The conversation dives into the psychology of Bitcoin holders, mapping human emotions like fear and greed onto on-chain data. James also discusses the implications of ETFs and derivatives on market dynamics, alongside key support zones for future predictions. His insights reveal how complex data can narrate compelling stories about investor behavior.

Robert Warren, Head of Research and Education at Bitcoin Park and author of The Bitcoin Miners Almanac, dives into the fascinating economic incentives of bitcoin mining. He clarifies how mining is essential for Bitcoin's resilience and aligns with energy markets. The conversation touches on the innovative difficulty adjustment mechanism, the misconceptions surrounding mining pools, and their impact on decentralization. Warren also reveals surprising ways bitcoin miners are driving global electrification and optimizing energy use.

Tuur Demeester, the founding editor at Adamant Research and a Bitcoin market analyst, dives into his latest predictions about the upcoming bitcoin boom in 2025. He discusses why this cycle could be longer and identifies serious risks such as confiscation. Tuur also highlights the role of bitcoin treasury companies in driving global adoption and tackles the implications of stagflation on investment strategies. The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-custody and adapting to a maturing Bitcoin landscape amidst economic turbulence.