
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino.
New episodes post every other Thursday.
Latest episodes

Jul 21, 2020 • 1h 6min
Ep. 115 ‘Dare to Speak’ with PEN America’s Suzanne Nossel
On today’s episode of So to Speak, we are joined by PEN America CEO Suzanne Nossel to discuss campus censorship, cancel culture, how different generations think about free speech, the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in 2015, and more. Nossel is the author of the forthcoming book, “Dare to Speak: Defending Free Speech for All.” Show notes: Transcript Bari Weiss’ resignation letter; Andrew Sullivan’s “farewell letter” for New York magazine So to Speak podcast: Debating “Is there a campus free speech crisis?” with Andrew Sullivan, Jonathan Haidt, Suzanne Nossel, Jeffrey Sachs, & Kmele Foster “The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure” by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt Harper’s: “A letter on justice and open debate” “Does apologizing work? An empirical test of the conventional wisdom” by Richard Hanania “Why we’re honoring Charlie Hebdo” by Andrew Solomon and Suzanne Nossel www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Jul 8, 2020 • 55min
Ep. 114 Glenn Loury objects
As protests against racial injustice continue across America, colleges and universities are increasingly speaking out in support of the protests. What’s more, some are also taking action to investigate or punish faculty critical of the protesters’ perceived aims. What does this mean for academic freedom and freedom of speech? And does this signal a shift away from the idea, best exemplified by the University of Chicago’s Kalven Report, that there should be a “heavy presumption against the university taking collective action or expressing opinions on the political and social issues of the day?” To discuss, we are joined by Glenn Loury, Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences at Brown University, who objected to a letter about the protests sent by Brown’s senior administrators. Show notes: Transcript Letter from from Brown’s senior leaders: Confronting racial injustice” “I must object” by Glenn C. Loury “CU Boulder professor accused of racist, sexist social media posts” “Miller ‘70 P’02: Fascism and the open campus” www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Jun 24, 2020 • 40min
Rebroadcast: How Daryl Davis, a black man, defeats the Ku Klux Klan with open dialogue
This episode is a rebroadcast from March 2017. “If you spend five minutes with your worst enemy, you will find you have something in common,” said Daryl Davis. “If you spend 10 minutes, you’ll find you even have more in common. And the more you find that you have in common and build upon those things, the less the things that you have in contrast will begin to matter, like skin color.” Since the early 90s, Davis, a black man, has taken up the curious pastime of befriending members of the Ku Klux Klan. The result? He has dozens of Klan robes at his home that were given to him by former Klan members who shed their racist beliefs after meeting him. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore how open dialogue and debate have shown Davis a path toward a more tolerant future. www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Jun 4, 2020 • 1h 1min
Ep. 113 Charlottesville reflections with Rodney Smolla
During the summer of 2017, a fierce dispute over the removal of Confederate monuments in Charlottesville, Va. captured national attention. The events that summer led to racial animosity and heated debate over our nation’s history and the First Amendment, and threw one historic city into turmoil, ultimately culminating in death and tragedy during the weekend of Aug. 11. On today’s episode of So to Speak, we are joined by Rodney Smolla to reflect on what happened in Charlottesville. Smolla is Dean and Professor of Law at the Delaware Law School of Widener University. He is also the author of a new book, “Confessions of a Free Speech Lawyer: Charlottesville and the Politics of Hate.” Editor’s note: This podcast was recorded on Wednesday, May 20, prior to the protests that began last week surrounding policing and race in America. Had these events taken place before our recording, they almost certainly would have been addressed, as there are many dots to connect between Charlottesville and our current moment, especially as they relate to race, the police, and our First Amendment rights. Show notes: Transcript Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942) Doe v. McKesson (5th Circ. 2019) Beauharnais v. Illinois (1952) Virginia v. Black (2003) “Student survey: Did student attitudes toward campus speech change after Charlottesville” by Kelsey Naughton www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

May 21, 2020 • 37min
Ep. 112 College social media censorship
A new FIRE report finds that 77% of public colleges and universities use a blacklist of secret words to censor comments on their Facebook pages. What’s more, 87% of them block particular users on Facebook or Twitter. How do these blacklists work? How were they discovered? And do they violate the First Amendment? On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by the director of FIRE’s Individual Rights Defense Program, Adam Steinbaugh. He is the author of “No Comment: Public Universities’ Social Media Use and the First Amendment.” Show notes: Knight Institute v. Trump PETA v. Texas A&M www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

May 8, 2020 • 1h
Ep. 111 'Dear Colleague,' due process now required. Title IX rules analysis.
On Wednesday, the Department of Education published its long-awaited new Title IX regulations. Over the years — and with the federal government’s prodding — Title IX has been twisted and used to justify censorship and the denial of core due process rights for those accused of sexual misconduct on America’s college campus. The new regulations will better protect certain free speech and due process rights long denied to students. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by FIRE Executive Director Robert Shibley and FIRE Senior Fellow Samantha Harris for a deep-dive analysis of the new regulations and the history of Title IX abuse on campus. Show notes: Podcast transcript New Title IX regulations text FIRE press release on new Title IX regulations Information on the April 4, 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter List of lawsuits filed since 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter Campus Due Process Litigation Tracker “Twisting Title IX” by Robert Shibley www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Apr 28, 2020 • 37min
Ep. 110 The Constitution in the age of coronavirus w/ Prof. Josh Blackman
With much of the country under stay-at-home orders due to COVID-19, what do these orders mean for the five freedoms of the First Amendment? On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino and constitutional law expert Josh Blackman will break it all down. Blackman is a professor of law at the South Texas College of Law in Houston and the author of three books, including his recently co-authored book with Professor Randy E. Barnett, “An Introduction to Constitutional Law: 100 Supreme Court Cases Everyone Should Know.” Show notes: Podcast transcript John Adams’ second annual address to Congress, December 8, 1798 “The Right to Protest During the Pandemic,” National Coalition Against Censorship coalition statement “Are Quarantine Orders Constitutional?,” by Mark Miller, Pacific Legal Foundation “If Liquor Stores Are Essential, Why Isn’t Church?,” by Michael W. McConnell and Max Raskin First Amendment News 251: Public health and the First Amendment in the age of COVID-19 www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Apr 16, 2020 • 50min
Ep. 109 Censorship pandemic
For authoritarian leaders across the globe, the coronavirus emergency presents an opportunity to silence critics and consolidate power. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by international free expression experts Jacob Mchangama and Sarah McLaughlin to discuss how countries like Turkey, Hungary, Egypt, and Thailand are banning “fake news” amidst the pandemic — but, in doing so, are making the crisis worse. Mchangama is the executive director of Justitia, a Copenhagen-based think tank focused on human rights and the rule of law. He is also the host and producer of the podcast Clear and Present Danger: A History of Free Speech. McLaughlin is the director of Targeted Advocacy at FIRE. Show notes: “Coronavirus has started a censorship pandemic” by Jacob Mchangama and Sarah McLaughlin Clear and Present Danger podcast: A conversation with Monika Bickert, Head of Global Policy Management at Facebook Podcast: “The Great Influenza: The story of the deadliest pandemic in history,” a lecture by John M. Barry “Hospitals must let doctors and nurses speak out,” an interview with Nicholas Christakis by Conor Friedersdorf “Responding to ‘Zoombombing’: Best practices for students and faculty” by FIRE’s Alex Morey FIRE statement on protecting academic freedom and freedom of expression in virtual classrooms www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Apr 2, 2020 • 1h 2min
Ep. 108 A history of (dis)information wars in the Soviet Union and beyond
How and why do authoritarian regimes seek to control information? On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by University of Maryland Associate Professor Cynthia L. Martin to explore how one country, the former Soviet Union, restricted access to information and stifled dissent — and what changed when that regime collapsed in 1991. Show notes: Podcast transcript Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible: The Surreal Heart of the New Russia Cato Institute lecture: Stalin’s Propaganda and Putin’s Information Wars, featuring Princeton University Professor Stephen Kotkin Call for Proposals: 2020 FIRE Faculty Conference www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

Mar 20, 2020 • 17min
Ep. 107.1 "Coronavirus and the failure of the ‘Marketplace of Ideas’"
"Coronavirus and the failure of the ‘Marketplace of Ideas’" by Foundation for Individual Rights in Education President & CEO Greg Lukianoff, as read by Susan Kruth. www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org