

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
FIRE
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino.
New episodes post every other Thursday.
New episodes post every other Thursday.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 2, 2026 • 1h 11min
Ep. 263: Free speech in Trump 2.0
One year into Trump 2.0, we examine the administration's record on free speech and how it compares to the president's campaign pledge to "bring back free speech to America." We also discuss recent ICE protests, including the right to carry a gun and to film law enforcement, and what these encounters reveal about protest rights today. Today we are joined by: Clark Neily, senior vice president for legal studies at the Cato Institute Timothy Zick, professor of government and citizenship at William & Mary Law School and author of the new book Trump 2.0: Executive Power and the First Amendment Conor Fitzpatrick, supervising senior attorney at FIRE Zick is also the author of Public Protest and Governmental Immunities, Managed Dissent: The Law of Public Protest, and Arming Public Protests. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:47 ICE protests: Alex Pretti, filming police, and the right to carry a gun 13:30 How to hold law enforcement accountable 19:10 Don Lemon's arrest 23:27 Trump's retribution politics and the "domestic terrorist" label 35:05 FCC pressure and attacks on the media 39:40 Free speech for noncitizens 53:49 Attacks on higher education 58:40 Trump 1.0 vs. Trump 2.0 01:02:25 What reforms are needed? 1:09:13 Outro Read the transcript here. Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Jan 22, 2026 • 1h 8min
Ep. 262: Escaping Iran
Pouya Nikmand, an Iranian-born writer and creator of 'Outliving Iran', shares his harrowing journey from life under an authoritarian regime to freedom. He discusses the current state of protests in Iran, detailing the brutal suppression and moral policing that define daily life. Pouya recounts his desperate escape, including trafficking in Europe and the challenges of arriving in the U.S. He emphasizes the importance of speaking out against injustice, urging listeners to understand the weight of freedom and belonging.

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Jan 15, 2026 • 1h 29min
Ep. 261: Thomas Paine's rise and fall
In this engaging discussion, Richard Bell, a history professor at the University of Maryland and author of The American Revolution and the Fate of the World, unpacks Thomas Paine's turbulent journey. From his meteoric rise with Common Sense to becoming a political pariah, Bell explores how Paine's radical ideas fueled independence yet ultimately led to his alienation. The talk delves into Paine's impactful writings, his experiences during the French Revolution, and the complex legacy he left behind, urging listeners to reconsider his role in shaping democracy.

Dec 19, 2025 • 59min
Ep. 260: Remembering 'free-thinking' writer Nat Hentoff
Nick Hentoff, son of the esteemed writer Nat Hentoff, reflects on his father's profound legacy as a champion of free speech, while filmmaker David Lewis shares insights from his documentary on Nat's life. The conversation delves into Nat's early influences, his unique voice in jazz and journalism, and his controversial stance on free expression. They discuss Nat's moral courage to defend unpopular views, his critiques of political figures, and the lasting impact he left on both the jazz community and dissenting voices in America.

Dec 10, 2025 • 1h 2min
Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions
Changes at the Pentagon, Charlie Kirk and cancel culture, free speech and misinformation, globalized censorship, Indiana University, how to support FIRE, and more! Timestamps: 00:00 Introductions 02:11 What is the Press Clause, and who does it apply to? 05:53 FIRE's position on Oklahoma student grading incident 08:50 What does FIRE need from Members besides financial support? 15:59 FIRE's College Free Speech Rankings and what they mean 19:44 What is the latest on the Ann Seltzer cases? 22:08 What is FIRE's view on the Pentagon press room changes? 24:50 What is the value of small donations? How can FIRE supporters volunteer? 29:21 Indiana University is good at football but bad at free speech 33:46 Are courts trending in a more speech-protective direction? 37:05 Charlie Kirk and cancel culture 39:20 Pro- and anti-Zionist speech and "hostile environment" harassment 43:48 Is "globalize the intifada" incitement? 45:07 How does FIRE distinguish between free speech and misinformation? 47:54 Can FIRE help supporters start free speech alumni groups? 48:55 Free speech, artificial intelligence, and copyright/trademarks 51:51 The sordid legacy of Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier 53:22 Staying hopeful amidst so much hypocrisy 55:32 Global speech platforms and censorship 58:14 Differences between FIRE and the ACLU? 59:34 Does FIRE have a Substack? (The Eternally Radical Idea, So to Speak, Expression) 1:00:03 Closing remarks. Read the transcript here. Joining us: Alisha Glennon, chief operating officer Nico Perrino, executive vice president Greg Lukianoff, president and ceo Will Creeley, legal director Become a paid subscriber today to receive invitations to future live webinars. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Nov 25, 2025 • 56min
Ep. 258: Donor disclosure and campaign finance at SCOTUS
Brad Smith, former Federal Election Commission chairman and now at the Institute for Free Speech, joins Brett Nolan, a senior attorney from the same institute, to delve into pivotal Supreme Court cases on donor disclosure and campaign finance. They discuss the significance of donor privacy, warning against the chilling effect of public disclosure. The duo also critiques limits on party spending, arguing money is a form of speech. Their insights shed light on the future legal landscape for campaign finance, emphasizing the importance of protecting First Amendment rights.

Nov 13, 2025 • 1h 6min
Ep. 257: Conversion therapy at the Supreme Court
FIRE's Ronnie London and Conor Fitzpatrick join the show to discuss the Supreme Court's oral argument in the conversion therapy case, the Pentagon's new press rules, Indiana University's censorship rampage, and where the situation stands with visa and green card holders who say things the feds don't like. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Chiles v. Salazar, the conversion therapy case 30:03 The Pentagon's new press rules 48:48 What the hell is going on at Indiana University? 55:38 Feds boot noncitizens for Charlie Kirk speech 01:05:02 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/) and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Oct 30, 2025 • 1h 14min
Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech
Join Greg Lukianoff, president of FIRE and free speech advocate, along with Nadine Strossen, former ACLU president and legal scholar, as they dissect ten compelling arguments against free speech. They explore the notion that 'words are violence' and how it shapes campus discourse. The duo discusses the fine line between dangerous speech and censorship, and why free speech is vital for all viewpoints. They tackle the misuse of hate speech laws and the importance of adapting free speech principles to the digital age. Their insights are thought-provoking and essential.

Oct 15, 2025 • 40min
Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy
FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, "Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech." Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID's impact for international students' speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk 36:52 Sarah's free speech inspirations: literature and people About the Guest: Learn more about Sarah McLaughlin and her work. Get the Book: Purchase Authoritarians in the Academy here. Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-transcript-authoritarians-academy Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/) and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Sep 30, 2025 • 48min
Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?
What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel's jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" to their stations. Joining us: Anna Gomez, FCC Commissioner Ronnie London, FIRE General Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:46 What's the FCC? 07:35 What's the "public interest" standard? 14:20 What is the "fairness doctrine"? 25:21 What is the "broadcast hoax" rule? 28:55 What is "news distortion"? 35:31 Role of network affiliates 41:15 What happens now? Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-what-going-fcc Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.


