So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a “there are only two genders” shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more. Guests: Bob Corn-Revere — chief counsel, FIRE Lee Levine — former senior counsel, Ballard Spahr Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 03:34 Censure of Rep. Libby 07:02 Supreme Court shadow docket 13:53 NPR lawsuit against Trump admin 19:07 Differences between NPR and Voice of America cases 30:50 Middle school student wearing “there are only two genders” shirt 48:54 Recent investigation into former FBI Director James Comey 55:46 Latest updates with Harvard and Trump 01:05:27 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: “Ep. 56 have you been defamed?” Lee Levine’s previous appearance on the show (2018) “Supreme Court backs Republican lawmaker in Maine who was punished for transgender athlete remarks” NBC (2025) “NPR and Colorado public radio stations lawsuit against Trump administration” NPR (2025) “Ending taxpayer subsidization of biased media” The White House (2025) L. M. v. Town of Middleborough, Massachusetts Justia (2024) Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District FIRE (1969) “Secret Service is asking Comey about a photo of seashells spelling ‘86 47’” The New York Times (2025) “The promise of American higher education” Alan Garber (2025) Harvard's lawsuit (complaint) (2025)

Heather Mac Donald, a Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of "When Race Trumps Merit," shares her insights on free speech issues during the Trump administration. She discusses her own experiences of being silenced and highlights the plight of canceled professors like Amy Wax and Carole Hooven. Mac Donald critiques Trump’s controversial interactions with the media and his executive orders impacting law firms. She raises concerns about campus censorship while advocating for open dialogue and the protection of dissenting viewpoints.

Joining the discussion are Greg Lukianoff, the President and CEO of FIRE and co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind," and Rikki Schlott, a New York Post columnist. They delve into the evolving nature of cancel culture, reflecting on its ties to academic freedom and personal anecdotes. The duo also weighs in on high-profile cancelation cases and the impact of social media in shaping public opinion. Is cancel culture on the decline? They explore this provocative question and advocate for dialogue over demands for cancellation.

David Rabban, a distinguished teaching professor at The University of Texas, and Erwin Chemerinsky, dean at UC Berkeley Law, tackle critical issues surrounding academic freedom and government influence on universities. They discuss the implications of funding threats faced by prestigious institutions like Harvard and Columbia, analyzing the tensions between First Amendment rights and federal mandates. The conversation also delves into viewpoint diversity, discrimination laws, and the evolving landscape of higher education, highlighting the risks and future of federal funding.

We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession?  Guests: - Sarah McLaughlin: FIRE senior scholar, global expression - James Kirchick: FIRE senior fellow - Jacob Mchangama: FIRE senior fellow Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 03:52 Free speech global surveys 07:49 Freedom of expression deteriorating 11:43 Misinformation and disinformation 18:05 Russian state-sponsored media 24:55 Europe’s Digital Services Act 29:26 Chinese censorship 34:33 Radio Free Europe 54:57 Mohammad cartoons 01:04:14 Outro Read the transcript here. Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: - Authoritarians in the academy: How the internationalization of higher education and borderless censorship threaten free speech Sarah McLaughlin (2025)  - “The First Amendment created gay America” So to Speak (2022) - “Secret city: The hidden history of gay Washington” James Kirchick (2022) - “Who in the world supports free speech?” The Future of Free Speech (2025) - “V-DEM democracy report 2025: 25 years of autocratization — democracy trumped?” V-Dem Institute (2025) - Global risks report 2024 World Economic Forum (2025) - “Gay reporter kicked off Kremlin network after protesting anti-gay law” Washington Free Beacon (2013) - Free speech: A history from Socrates to social media (paperback) Jacob Mchangama (2025) - Europe's Digital Services Act (DSA) (2022) - Careless people: A cautionary tale of power, greed, and lost idealism Sarah Wynn-Williams (2025) - “The Voice of America falls silent” The New York Times (2025) - Text of Havel’s speech to Congress The Washington Post (1990) - Voice of America wins in court, for now, as judge blocks Trump administration from firing staff AP News (2025)

Will Creeley, legal director at FIRE, and Conor Fitzpatrick, supervising senior attorney at FIRE, dive into the intricate tensions between free speech and institutional pressures. They discuss Columbia University's controversial response to federal funding cuts over anti-Semitism allegations, the implications of the Mahmoud Khalil deportation case, and the chilling effects of DEI policies on dissent in academia. The conversation also touches on the risks of using funding to control political narratives and the essential role of due process in safeguarding civil liberties.

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 00:53 Latest updates on Khalil 02:51 First Amendment implications 06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation 11:54 Chilling effects on free expression 21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens 24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law 27:02 Broader implication of immigration policies 37:51 Outro Read the transcript here. Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: - “​​We will be revoking the visas and/or green cards of Hamas supporters in America so they can be deported.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio via X (2025) - “‘ICE proudly apprehended and detained Mahmoud Khalil, a radical foreign Pro-Hamas student on the campus of @Columbia University. This is the first arrest of many to come.’ President Donald J. Trump” The White House via X (2025) - “WATCH: White House downplays stock market declines as ‘a snapshot’” PBS NewsHour (2025) - “Secretary Rubio's remarks to the press” U.S. Department of State (2025) - “Mahmoud Khalil. Notice to appear.” Habeeb Habeeb via X (2025)

Ari Cohn, lead counsel for tech policy at FIRE, Adam Thierer from the R Street Institute, and Jennifer Huddleston from the Cato Institute delve into the critical intersection of technology and free speech. They dissect the implications of Section 230 and recent FCC moves that could challenge online expression. The trio also debates the complexities of content moderation and the rise of AI regulations, emphasizing the need for balance between innovation and oversight. Their insights into the evolving landscape of digital policy are both thought-provoking and entertaining!

JD Vance critiques Europe's stance on free speech, contrasting it with American values. The discussion dives into the Trump administration's exclusion of the Associated Press from press events and the implications for media freedom. Recent developments in online expression laws in Europe raise concerns about censorship and penalties. The podcast also addresses the FCC's regulatory authority and the complexities of free speech in relation to current political pressures. A fascinating look into the evolving landscape of free speech rights!

In this discussion, Ilya Shapiro, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of "Lawless," shares his insights on the evolving landscape of legal education. He recounts his personal encounters with cancel culture, particularly during his time at Georgetown. Shapiro also analyzes significant Supreme Court cases affecting free speech, including the TikTok ownership debate and Texas' age verification law. He emphasizes the need for open dialogue in academia and reflects on the ideological shifts within elite institutions.