Data Driven

SalesForce, Microsoft, and Twitter have all extended their work from home policies either indefinitely or for the remainder of the year.To say that housing is expensive in the Bay Area would be an understatement.Frank ponders what will happen to the real estate market if you only go to the office once or twice a week? Or not at all?Why spend money to be near a place you no longer go to daily?Transcript (AI Generated)Hey, what's up is Frank here from data driven,the podcast or we explore the emerging fields.Data science, machine learning and artificial intelligence.So uhm, today this morning.Actually, I read that Salesforce is allowing their workforce towork from home for the remainder of the Year this.Got me thinking. Uh, about other companies that have donethat.Microsoft has at least last time I checked,working from home or going into the office is voluntarythrough at least October.It might be extended. Who knows?Twitter is said that they are going to make remotework possible indefinitely.I'm not sure Google stances,but I think when you see the big tech industries,the Big Giants in the tech industry is really whatI want to say.Is they're all embracing work from home that is goingto have enormous.I think implications across, well,every industry, but I think one of the ones thatwill be particularly impacted.Given that number of Bay Area Giants have kind ofjumped on,this will be real estate real estate in the SanFrancisco area is notoriously expensive,and it's the stuff of almost jokes in terms of,you know, shack and cause a couple $1,000,000 and they'llbe a bidding war for said Shack.I really wonder. Watt That will do for real estate,because if you could you could stay in California.Maybe move 3 four hours away from San Francisco orthe Bay.And you can get a house that's more affordable.And if you are going to be working remotely indefinitely,or even when things kind of go back to normal,whatever, that will look like.You probably only be required to come in less thanfive days a week.Uh, you know, maybe a once a week,4 hour commute. Each way maybe that won't be sobad.Uh, maybe maybe? I mean,that's really going to. I think that's really going toimpact realestate ticular Lee in places like Silicon Valley andSan Francisco,and possibly other places like New York,but I'm really curious to see what the data willsay.So if you have that bad of a commute oncea week,I think most people would be willing to tolerate thatfor more affordable housing an.You know, I don't know.I think that's really going to impact kind of notthe high end 'cause I think people are always goingto want to have some property there,but I really think it's really going to change.Kind of the lower to mid range of realestate allover.Let me not just San Francisco,but I can easily see this applying to New York,Seattle. Places where. Technology companies have really driven up thereal estate recently.I don't know, you know,and you also have the opportunity that you know ifyou don't have to go into the office at all,why not move to Nebraska?You know where land is much cheaper than anywhere inCalifornia?I really think that when the dust shakes out ofthis and now that remote work is much more accepted,I think it's. I think we're going to see changesor unanticipated changes.I always like to say that one of the mostpowerful forces in the universe is actually.Unintended consequences, so I'm really curious to see how thatgoes.I can also imagine folks trying to sell real estatein this environment.Must be having a difficult time because you're basically askingpeople to kind of come and go into peoples homes.If you are real estate agent and you are dealingwith this,my heart goes out to you.But if you like to talk on the show,kind of about how this is impacting you,I don't know. I think that would be interesting toour listeners listeners if you if you're not interested inthat,please leave a comment and we won't pursue that,but I think it'll be interesting to see how thedata shows,kind of the fallout in real estate,not just immediately, but I think over the long haul.You know why pay millions of dollars for a condo?That's five blocks to an office that you're not reallygoing to have to ever really set foot in.It's really going to become,I think, at that point,a lifestyle choice you want to live on a farm,or you want to live in the heart of SanFrancisco.I think the same holds true for New York.You know, any major city,really. As long as there's good bandwidth.Doesn't really matter where you are,and I say this as someone that has worked remotelyfor the better part of 15 years now with acouple of exceptions here and then.It's interesting to see, kind of how this is goingto shake out.And originally I was going to post this and talkabout how I'm getting my vitamin D 'cause I'm outon my deck overlooking a forest and but Facebook didnot. Facebook live did not want to seem to letme want to post with that.I'm going to get some more vitamin D from thesun.The further protect myself. And you stay safe out there.And if you have any thoughts about future shows,I'm dropping a new show on Monday with a verydistinguished guest.But I will not reveal that name.'cause I think any and I want to keep thatas a surprise.But we had a great time talking to him,so that should drop Monday.Today's Saturday, May 16th, so that would be Sunday,May 18th. See just did some math in my head.Anyway, you have a great day.

In this Deep Dive, Frank and Andy delve into the world of Data Warehousing, what is it and do they know things? Let's find out!Frank also shares that he has a new role at Microsoft.AI Generated TranscriptionHello and welcome to data driven,the podcast where we explore the emerging field of datascience.We bring the best minds in data,software, engineering, machine learning and artificial intelligence.Now hear your hosts Frank Lavigna and Andy Leonard.Hello and welcome back to data driven.The podcast where we explore the emerging fields of datascience machine learning an artificial intelligence.If you like to think of data as the newoil then you could consider us like Car Talk.However, we can't go on a road trip because ofthe Corona virus lock down.So it's just Andy and I kind of stuck athome respectively.And thanks to the Magic of Technology we can beon the show at the same time.And, uh, how's it going?Andy? It's goingwell, Frank, how are you doing?Good, good, uh, you'llprobably hear my kids in the background.Wewill, and you know what Frank,I think it's fine. You know I'm going to.I understand why you said the word stuck with youand I work remotely an awful lot.We usually record like this.There's there's less in the background.It's your place most of the time,but you have couple of young boys there and youneed to be in the room with them when momwho's also working from home is you know is doingsome of her work so kudos to you to bothof you for finding a way to manage this.Everybody's going through these sorts of things and I'm surethat none of our listeners will mine here in yoursons play inthe background or hopefully won't start fighting so that's Well,I asked, I asked if they do I think alot of folkscan relate though. Yeah, oh absolutely,absolutelyso. We're recording us on April 16th.We Speaking of kids, we had your son on whichif the order of recording goes the way I plantedin my head.That would have been released last week.And Uh, which I thought was a pretty good,uh, discussion on. How stem is taught?How stemmers perceived by quota quote policymakers?And how the actuality of it is?And some of the interesting stuff your son is doingwith Raspberry Pi and stuff like that.Yeah,I was a I was first I was very proudof him.You know the work that he's doing and he's he'shad his his hands in machine learning for really acouple of three years.Now I want to say he was 14 and Icame into his room.You know just checking on say something or something Isaw.A Mario Brothers playing in the background.Like what do you think you know he was?He he had done his school work?He was home schooled at the time he done hisschool work.So you know what he wants.But um, later talking to him about it,he said he actually came and got me and hesaid,OK, dad, it took, you know with I think itwas like 6.You know neural nodes. Here he was able to,Mario was able to figure this out and something like4 hours or something you know later he said Iwonder what it would be if I added a note.I wonder what that would do to it and I'mkind of sitting there with my mouth hanging open.Going show dad more about that nice,but he's been doing it for awhile.I know your kids are interested in the same thing.They're younger Stevie 17 now and you know.and I know that your sons are coming up inthis.In this age as well,they are mentioned Mark Tapatio in that show as hereferred to digital natives.They are digital natives and yeah,that comes with some pretty interesting stuff.So I'm just glad we were able to record thatshow as he gets ready for his first sequel Saturdaypresentation here on that topic.So and that's all assuming that we were able toovercome the technical glitch.We we learned something, Frank,I'd learn something. Yeah,it's not a glitch. If you learn something.So if if for some reason.The you know what hit the fan then that episodewill be recorded at a future date,so we'll see it will,but we've got. We've gota great topic today. You and I've been bad thisaround I want.I know it's been several weeks.It may have been a couple of months.We've been talking about doing this.Right absolutely, and part of what motivates this?An based on the release schedule that I anticipate thiswill have already happened.I'm changing jobs at Microsoft Woo.At your new job. I will be the data andthe AI technology architect at the Reston MTC or MicrosoftTechnology Center,so congratulations. Thank you very much.It's an honor to join such a prestigious team.If you're not familiar with what the MTC is.MTC is a Microsoft Technology Center.There is about 80 of them around the world,and they basically are meant to provide specific experiences.Ends well as architecture design guidance for customers around theworld and it's an honor to be kind of inthat team.It's very rarely does an opening happen in an empty,so when one opened up in my neck of theWoods is like I have to take it.I have to at least try.Right right? So Fortunately I am super excited.And Uhm, 'cause That's what we say at Microsoft weresuper excited and it's a great team.Great stuff that they do.They do a lot of work with the community.They do a lot of work with customers.It's just an awesome gig.I'm really looking forward to it and.Yeah, I'm really excited aboutit. Congratulations brother. That's a great thing and I thinkyou're perfect for that job.I know, I know, someone else in that job atan MTC in the northeast.And it's it's kind of a rare breed of personthat has to walk into that role because.It optimally you have a smattering of exposure to allwhole slew of enterprise architecture,an both both you and this other individual that Iknow fit that mold.You've got programming experience, software development experience,and you also have data experience,and it's just rare to be good at both ofthose things I know,but I know you're good at it,and I know my other friend is good at thisas well,so I just I just think it's going to bea great fit for you,Frank. I'm I'm excited, you gotit. Thank you. Thank you very much.So with that, one of the things that I've beenramping up on in anticipation for this job or whateveropportunity I was going to go to next.I was learning more about the quote Unquote traditional sideof the data world,which let me move kind of explain my little worldview,which is twisted and as weird as it may be,it might actually be right.I see this alot in my current current or oldroll current as of April 16th.Role is that we have data in the I cloudsolution architects,but there's a very clear line of demarcation between thedata scientist.Part of the data in the icy essays and thesequel veterans side of things.So I actually had a call this morning where itwas.It was very, very much laid bare 'cause we weretalking about that and that there's essentially kind of twotypes of data in AI folks at Microsoft for sure,probably everywhere else, to you have the RDBMS folks.These folks have been doing sequel since it was asidebased joint venture,right, right? That's their world.Ann, you have kind of the big data open sourcekind of tooling world,right? The folks that are more comfortable in spark orHadoop or with the crazy statistics and math around machinelearning and AI,right? You kind of have those two.Rarely dothe two. Rarely do youhave a person who's. Comfort,Rible and happy in both.I am aiming to be happy and comfortable in both.Obviously I'm more in the data science kind of world.And part of my part of what I see isthe opportunity in this new role is to grow intothe kind of the sequel.RDBMS traditional database world. That makessense. They are no. It makes perfect sense.and I mean coming at coming at this from,you know, we as we shared in each show thepast few days that we've recorded.We've known each other for like 15 years.And most of that time you were a professional softwaredeveloper.You are a Microsoft MVP in.I forget which discipline it was.Frank, I know it was software development related.Ithinkthe world has forgotten that this discipline never existed.tabletPC. Tablet PC right? OK and you did an awfullot in there and I know there's a lot ofpeople out there working in what that evolved into mobile.That benefited from the blog post you shared,solutions. You shared an all of that,but yeah, that whole mobile thing turned out not tobe such a,you know, it was a trend it and it evolved.To what it is now,and having that experience, I think you're going to findthat that plays well into kind of backfilling like yousaid,or filling this other bucket that you want to goafter,which is traditional T SQL an.I know, I know, from experience and dabbling in machinelearning and AI.I'm on the opposite side of the fence,although I'm not really that good at,you know. Let's say like DBA level T SQL,but I you know I can hold my own inthere,but if we are. If we're selling tuning performance tuningto a client.I may be involved in the project,but rarely am I the person actually performing the tuning.There are lots of people out there that we subcontractas a as a consulting firm,enterprise data and Analytics. We bring others in who arebetter at that much better at that than I am,and we have people on the team who are muchbetter than I am as well,but it's. I think your experiences has his set youup really well.To make this transition and it will like everything elseright?We talked about this in the other shows.It takes time. And it's frustrating,but I think you're well positioned to pick up thisskill as fast or faster than almost anyone else Iknow just well,thank you now you know part of it,I'm not. I'm not completely like naive to the waysof RDBMS.I took sequel in college,database design and college and my professor worked with cardin date.So you know, like. You know,I'm only two degrees of Kevin Bacon away.From the founders of the theory,so you know that's going for me,but I never really got into just kind of thenuts and bolts of it,and I'm not. I'm not concerned about that.I'm actually fascinated about it,because it's just another way to solve the same problem.Absolutely. Ultimately, at the end of the day,you're moving bits around, and it's a question.What's your philosophy? Or obviously,RDBMS has a philosophy and it you know I'm notknocking.I mean, it worked well for 5060 years.But now we live in a world where there's alot more unstructured data.And how do you deal with that?And how do you deal with it now that you'renot making assumptions about spinningdisks, right? Right there's a whole.Kevin hazard.'cause we haven't hazard.Yeah who talked about that on our show that yeahthere still leaves it's 2020 and I would say stillmost of our code is designed for that age ofthe heads picking up seeking a sector an reading dataand then picking up again.So there's there's a whole new opportunity where obviously relationaldatabases are going to still matter,but it's just one of many tool sets.In fact, one of the things that I learned whenI was doing start up with angelism for Microsoft was.You know, having debates with startup founders who UR?I will say I put them in a hipster category,right? I worked with when you work with startups runsthe gamut between really like I mean like that thisperson is going to be the next Steve Jobs tothis person is kind of like I think they're livingin their parents basement,but rather than seeing unemployed they haven't so somewhere inthe middle you kind of what I have.The hipster ones where they learned code because of makethe startup.Now that's not nothing wrong with that,but do you think that you're an expert in allthings technology because you learn to code?Right, you know, and then you go to a personthat is supposed to help you take your stuff tothe next level and kind of talk down to them.So right context this conversation.So they were basically lamenting the fact that they wantedto.They wanted to have the reliability of.Up an RDBMS, but they wanted to do it ina note SQL type of environment.An I was like that'sa fair. You know that's a fair thing to want.I'm just all cards on the table.Approaching that, architecturally, that's that's not an unreasonable request.But unless and until you get into the engineering partof it.And that's where you start to see that you justcan't have everything that you want.I mean, there's no single do it all type application,everything, every software application ever.And I'm going to maintain,probably forever. They're going to be applications.There's going to be some spot that I define asa corner.It's something that the application or server or what haveyou doesn't do well.And what you'll often find is there's some other applicationout there that's available,or some other platform, and it will do that partwell.But again, that also has its corners,and So what you're trading is pain.The nicest way possible. You're picking your picking your poison,picking your pain. What is it that you want tofight?And it depends on. You know.Relational databases have their pain points.No sequel. It turns out a lot of companies havelearned this over the past few years.Also has its pain points as well so.You can't always get what you want,but if you try sometimes you might get get whatyou need.Awesome. So, so Imean part of it is,you know, sometimes whether it's technology,anything else, you have, kind of these dueling philosophes anthere is a point where they just won't meet justbecause of.They're they're kind of philosophically opposed an you're right,you have to kind of pick which one you wantto have over the other.And there's cause and effect to that.So with that kind of deep philosophical you were dataphilosopher,so that's good. So I wanted to talk to youabout.We want to do a deep dive.It's not officially a deep dive until I have funwith my soundboard there.Into data warehousing, what is data warehousing?Where did it start? I'll channel A little bit ofbojack horseman.What is data warehousing? What do they know?Do they know things? Let's find out.Well, yeah, datawarehousing in my opinion in my experience is really thisidea of of collecting data from all over different placesand placing it into a centralized location.Now there's some distinctions and there's other scientific answers tothat question,and you can actually build something that today is notconsidered a technically a data warehouse.You can gather all of the information that spread acrossthe enterprise in different places.Into what's now called an operational data store.Ann, it's not totally unlike a data warehouse.In fact, I think the Euler diagrams have quite abit of overlap for that,at least if we if we kind of improve oradd to the word data warehouse or the term datawarehouse with relational data warehousing,there's a lot of overlap between relational data warehousing andoperational data store.Wanna confuse that really with our listeners?But I just want to make you aware if youhear oh DS or DW or EW.It could be that they're talking about largely the samething.And when you think about like you think about supplychain management,which is a topic on everyone's mind these days aswe're talking about the economic impact of the pandemic.Supply chains are where really where really way more importantthan we realize and it's kind of like oxygen ormoney.You don't recognize how important it is until you don'thave enough.An supply chains are like this and you could thinkof a data warehouse.In that terminology. The analogy holds for quite a bit,and I'm going. I'm just going to use Walmart andAmazon as you know,is kind of examples of this.They both have these distribution centers and they have thesenetwork set up all over the United States,probably all over the world and its places where thegoods come from the source and they're trucked into.You know, they may be collected at other points alongthe way.But they're trucked into these large,physically large warehouses and then stocked.And then from there there actually shipped out to inthe case of Amazon.Usually there handed off to some delivery service.In the case of Walmart,they're placed on other Walmart trucks that are shipped tothe stores.The actual brick and mortar stores and that warehouse inthe middle.That distribution center. That's what I think of when Ithink of data warehouses.I think of the the electronic equivalent of that becauseyou know,there's all of these. You'll see especially at what Iconsider an EDW enterprise data warehouse.You've got a collection of companies that have been acquiredin mergers and acquisitions,and they're looking at. I want to get all oftheir data.But they have and want to bring that into thisone location,and that I want it there for a number ofreasons.But one of the big reasons is so I canquery that data and I can learn how my entireenterprises performing.How's it working? And. And in that,and now if I apply that Walmart Amazon analogy tothat to the data there,they...

In this Data Point, Frank reflects on the somewhat ironic nature of our tagline (and t-shirts) in light of the negative price of Oil.This was recorded on Monday, April 20, 2020 and, while oil prices have rebounded somewhat, there are some strange things afoot at the Circle K that is this world.

In this episode, Frank and Andy interview Stephen Leonard, Andy's son, about his upcoming first SQL Saturday Talk, digital natives, engineering and STEM, and old movies like "Aliens" and "the Matrix."AI Generated Transcript (experimental)Hello and welcome to data driven,the podcast where we explore the emerging field of datascience.We bring the best minds in data,software, engineering, machine learning and artificial intelligence.Now hear your hosts Frank Lavigna and Andy Leonard.Hello and welcome back to data driven,the podcast or we explore the emergent fields of datascience machine learning an artificial intelligence.If you like to think of data as the newoil then you can consider us.Car Talk 'cause we focus on where the rubber meetsthe virtual road and with me on this epic journeyroad trip down information superhighway.Although I think we have to be sequestered because ofthe pandemic is Andy Leonard,how's it going? Andy, hey it's going well Frank,how are you doing, brother?You know I'm doing OK,I'm doing OK, we're in lockdown.I'm in. My wife is actually on an important workmeeting and I have the kids.In the room with me so you might hear ina frequent interjection,but I understand that Speaking of kids,yeah, we have a very unique guest.We do, we do have Steven Ray.My older son is joining us for the first partof this an we want to talk to him becauseat least in this it is first part because heis about to deliver his very first sequel Saturday presentation.Yes Sir, very cool. So I know a little bitabout the back story to this so.Steven, why don't you, uh,kind of do an intro to yourself.You're just. Quick bio I know and he probably knowseverything about you,but most of the rest of his home.Well, I'm for the uninitiated.I'm Steven. I'm Andy's son and or as I normallyrefer to him.Dad, I do stuff with small AI and neural Nets.I also work with Raspberry pis specifically.Sorry iot devices, specifically Raspberry pie.Zan, Jetson, Nanos working a little bit less with thelatter.Recently I've been doing more work with the pies.And, uh, pretty soon on the 25th I will bepresenting my first sequel Saturday class and I guess Ijust got lucky enough to do it on the firstseveral virtual SQL Saturday. Call it whatever you want,lock or unlucky based on the world events.I'll be teaching class on how to install SQL Serveron a Raspberry Pi 3B and I'm working on asolution for the four as well.Very call and it's my understanding that you actually you'reactually studying.Was it telerobotic? Not telerobotics but.Was it? Does a really cold like $10 word forit that Angie,Oh, Mecatronics Mecatronics That's it?Yes, Sir. Cartoon yes it does.I'm uh, it's It's, uh,it's really just all the I believe there are like12 or 13 official realms of engineering,or at least the ones that they teach in college.And it's sort of all of those mixed into onelike hyper focused,really hard class and I really just chose it becausewhen I walk into the when I walk into aroom,if someone has a question,I just want to be able to answer it.I want to be sort of the most helpful Ican be and I figure if I'm well enough versedin.As much engineering as much as much of the realmsof engineering as I can be,I figure I can be pretty helpful.That's pretty, that's the plan.A chip off the old block there Andy.Well, he, uh, you know his.I'll say Frank, he's probably better at it than mebecause his mom has a lot of background training inmultitasking type tasks.She was 911 dispatcher for awhile and to graduate fromthat course.They they literally play five or six conversations at thesame time.And she had to write down and track all ofthe conversations and respond accordingly.So it makes for a good project manager,which is awesome because I have exactly zero of thoseskills,so he has. He has more of that than Ido,but I think he definitely gets his ADHD for me,which this is Frank. We've talked about this about weaponizingthings that maybe hindrances in some fields an you knowthat I hear some of that in Stevie's plans herebecause rather than just go after one discipline.You know, just pick up a discipline of engineering,mechanical or electronics. You know he likes the idea ofkind of popping between disciplines and.You know, I, I think that so he's kind ofleveraging the ADHD there.Yeah, I, I mean I.I think that if you can,it's one thing to kind of play to your strengthsand quote Unquote fix your flaws.But I think there's a whole new level of selfimprovement that I've kind of discovered over the last fouryears or so.Is weaponizing your flaws. Yeah,you know what we talked about this with anti fragileright?Antifragility and not seem to loves books on that.you and I are both huge fans and I'm stillworking on getting him to come on the show.Frank I don't know. I don't know if we're goingto be able to pull that or not,but I have two goals here.Is you're well aware one is to make contact withhim and two is to not get blocked on Twitter?Yes, so he's although if you're for the listener,if you're not familiar with the lab he's been,he's been on fire lately with Twitter,as well as his one of his big sticks isrisk prediction and risk modeling and risk management.Although he would call it something else,and he would probably smack me across the face forcalling it risk management.But honestly, it would be an honor.Do snack Crossface by to lab in my agree.Agree yeah, but he's on fire both on Twitter and.He's making crazy money on this on the fund thathe manage is.Oh wow, OK, I didn't realize he still managed tofind.I didn't know either, but somebody reported that he madeeither 360%.A three 3600% or 36 times I don't know whateverit is,but he's in March. He made a ridiculous amount ofmoney,partly because I think he predicted a lot of thelong tail effects of the Cove in pandemic.Wow, yeah, if you look at him on Twitter lately,don't get blocked for him though.Please yeah, I'll try not true.I can live without kind of that pseudoscience biohacker knowledgefrom his Twitter feed,but I don't think I could live without to labswisdom.Yes, I'm here. Which again we will share that storyin full detail.Later, you're laughing. I am laughing now.We were going through that phase of.A kind of anger denial and all that.Now we're kind of laughing at it were accepting.That's where we have accepted it.An yeah, so we've gotten over it.But yes, we need your child.We have. We have ignored him and we want totalk about his product now.You gave him advice that he should Chinese.He combines the more likely his proposal to speak wouldbe accepted.Yeah, and you know this Frank from our relationship andI've been doing this for.Along time when I get,you know, once I got to to be able tospeak,I started reaching out trying to help others do it.'cause it was such a rush and I had.I had a couple of of men tease,I guess actually present at the pass summit 2019 inSeattle back in November and you know,that's just a huge, huge,great failing and you see the kind of picked upon that as well.You heard it when he was talking about his motivation,part of it as he wants to be able tohelp just as much as possible.But yeah, it came to me.I don't know ten months a year ago he saiddad,I want to. I want to do a presentation.He's been traveling with me to events over half hislife and.He said, You know, the very first thing I toldhim is,I think that's awesome. You'll do a good job,but here's what we're not going to do where we'renot going to get you picked because you're my son,but I'll do the same thing for you.I do for everyone else,and I did. That was my next piece of advice.Was my first real piece of advice.Was picked something shiny, and by Shawnee I mean youknow something new.A little edgy an he picked 2.Uh, an when he first told me about it inside,I was thinking that's a pretty big bite,but I didn't share that until just now with him,but he jumped right in on it.Franken, I would estimate in the first couple weeks.He probably put 100 hours on this.After that. You know he's probably been averaging 50 orso hours per month or so and I would sayhe's got a good solid 400 hours into it beforehe got it to work.And that was a couple months ago.He actually got it to where he got SQL Serverrunning on one of our π three is.So yeah, that was that was a very,very interesting way that happened to.I solved it while hanging out I.It honestly looked like I was building a weapon ina college that was that was really where it happenedis I was setting in the lobby of the college.My mother works at. And you know the HD MIcable was too short sided hanging out of the portand everything.But you know I just kind of threw my handsup and laid back and the desk lady kind oflooks over me like are you OK?It was it was. It was a very interesting time,but when I finally got it was just like everythingthat I had been waiting for.Just kind of crashed down on me.All the money we'd spent on replacing the walls.I was hitting my head into,it was just it was.It was worthwhile. We've been there,Stevie. I mean, Frank and I both done that anI've shared this story.In fact, this is completely unrehearsedI I've I've shared with people on a bunch ofdifferent times.When I talk in class is about this.You know I will. Failure is normal and my demofor that is I will walk down stairs on abreak and you and your siblings are homeschooled here andI'll say guess what my code just did and whatis it that you reply in Unison user?Exactly what you told it to exactly what I toldyou right?Not not what I wanted but exactly what I toldit to.Yes. But you experienced that.Go ahead, go ahead now.You've experienced that, and what I shared with you aswe were going through,and I do this with everybody that you know,I have a opportunity and it's truly an opportunity.It's an honor to mentor anyone when I have thatopportunity to share with them.Listen failure. You gotta look at failure as the lateststep on the path to success.And really, what you'll see is when you succeed,the number of times that you failed will actually kindof set the bar.How good it's going to feel.When you succeed. Was alright,so yeah, no you were totally correct.It was. It was the you kind of get toa point where I explain this to it to mybest friend who was,you know he works. He helps me work with thisas well.And I explained it to him and the way Ikind of explained it was I reached a point wherejumping off a Cliff was preferable to continuing to workon this. And, uh, you know,I just kept pushing through it.And finally, once you get to the end,it's just everything sort of it.Just kind of collapses on you,really. It's like being in a building and it's just,it just feels so good,just all the all the weeks of hitting your headagainst a wall and being angry and not figuring outnot being able to figure out why it's giving youthis error and that error.And why is this breaking and why I can't getDocker installed after I've installed it 3 times before onthe same kernel?You know, it's just. It's all these things over andover and over again.Just finally hit you and you just go.Yes, it's completely foreign to both Frankie.Now we write code and it just works the firsttime,every time, right? Frank, Oh yeah.No, it's true. He's never come downstairs.I've never heard dead come downstairs and go Dang mycode didn't work today.It's always just man that was perfect.There's actually a cartoon where it shows the same skepticallook of a person in front of a computer.And it says my code didn't work and I don'tknow why that was the first captain.The second one is my code worked the first timeand I don't know why.It again, if your code works the first time,then either you forgotten something it didn't work and it'sjust not telling you,or you need to stab yourself with a fork andwake up,right, right? Or you kind of like something is bad,so going something even worse is going to happen.And what I anticipated, right?Which I think a lot of folks,I think you know. I learned this when I wasdoing a couple of years ago.This is back in the Windows 8 days when Iwas in evangelism.Uh, I spoke to a bunch of high school kidsand I kind of did this summer course on writingapps and stuff like that.And like I thought, I bombed it the first day.Like really bad, because it just kept compiler,kept happening problems and there were some driver issues andI worked through it an I talked to kind oflike the coordinator with the local high school and hegoes no. That was awesome because a lot of thesekids,they see how programming is represented on TV and it's.Everything works the first time and I'm like looked athim like we both kind of set in Unison.Nothing ever works the first time,and if it does, I'm very,very suspicious. Very sets to write a lot of folks.They think that they get there,they get their hands kind of dirty with code orstem an the first time.If it doesn't work, they think it's them.But no. I mean that's frustration is on Fortunately orunfortunately a large part of engineering.Right, and that's that's the that's the issue I runinto when when I tell people that I run intoor people that I know that I work with computersand you know, they tell me stuff like Oh wellthat's I'm not smart enough to that.Or that's too hard. I could never figure that out.And then there's two kind of groups and that's thefirst group is well,you're so smart an my answer is no,I just spent a lot of time in it andthe other the other group that I run into isthat like are the people who have seen.What's the movie called? The oceans,movies and there like in.They asked me how nice you know how it feelswhen you finally hack the mainframe and get through theFirewall.And it's really just like the reality that you runinto when you start getting into doing programming and engineeringof any sorts really,is that? It's nothing like what it's portrayed in themovie.In the movies, in the general consensus of how itworks is nowhere near how it actually works.Right, right? I mean it it to everybody,it almost seems. It's almost it's almost synonymous to rocketscience.I've seen to the at least of the general publicthat I've talked to is they think it's some sortof thing that you have to go to college andget a degree for, when in reality you can learnit in your Mother's basement in six months.Now that's true. Patience is under rated,I think in our society and this and a lotof the folks that what differentiates kind of someone who.Is good at, this is just the patience.The tenacity. I mean you've demonstrated this.I think you've internalised it now,right? But you know a lot of folks,I think in result of this pandemic are going tostart pondering new careers as they should,right? You know, just. It makes a lot of sense,and I think a lot of folks have to realizethat.Programming is frustration.Yeah, it's it's definitely. It's definitely not a career that.4. Uh, what's the word I'm looking for?Not short minded, but sort of short sighted people wholook for instant gratification,right? Although I would say that.As someone who, as someone who has been,I've never been formally diagnosed with ADHD.But you know, people close to me have said I'mhigh functioning ADHD.Uh, which is? You know I'm not going to arguewith that,but there's a lot of folks who were quote aquote on the spectrum or on a spectrum of somesort who who do work in Tech.Which is interesting because I think part of it ispart of ADHD is.I'm not an expert on this,but is the ability to focus on one task fora very extended period of time,yeah? Yeah, hyperfocus, yeah. So if you are listening tosorry,go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say Icompletely agree with you.That's that's really how it is,at least for me. I'm not sure how it isfor other people with ADHD.I can't speak for everyone right,but how it is for me is if there's atask that I'm just set on completing.I just do it. I mean,it's it's hard to really explain.I just have an idea and I want to doit and I go and do it,and I do it until it's done.That's how it is. Yeah,I think its tenacity is the real skill tenacity inpatients.I like that and having an end in mind likefor me when I first learned programming,this was. Steve, this is like probably Stone Age foryou.I mean there was no Internet.I didn't even have a modem,but she probably even know what a modem is.Oh, so, So what did you name your Dinosaur?The one that you wrote to school?Obviously. I know you had some for cleaning the houseis right,but what was the name of the one that youwrote to school back on I we called him Rodney.I don't know why. Oh OK,cool because my dad was Rodney Dangerfield then.Which is probably another name you don't know.I was gonna say. Yeah,hold on 1 second.Look that up in the Wikipedia.Yeah, it's like it's like the Spiderman movies again wherehe's talking about.There's really, really old movies like back to the futureand aliens,right, right? Yeah, that was,uh. Now give me...

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