Beyond Organic Wine

In this special episode I’m going to clear up a far to common misunderstanding about how much it costs to get certified organic or biodynamic (Spoiler alert: it doesn't cost a lot to get certified.) But I’ll also raise some of the complicated but important questions about whether it’s worth getting certified.I give an in-depth look at the actual fees and costs of the three year transition period for becoming certified Organic and Biodynamic, using a 20 acre vineyard as an example, as well as the on-going annual costs of being certified. Also, I explain the complicated way that certification applies to what you can and can't say on your wine's label, and why there are actually two certifications required to be able to state "Made With Organic Grapes" or "Organic Wine" or "Biodynamic Wine" on your wine labels. A special thanks to Gina of Lady of the Sunshine for providing some great data from her own Biodynamic certification process, which was a big help in my research for this piece. Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

My guest for this episode is Martin Bernal-Hafner. Martin is doing some beautiful and hard work in Mendocino County for Alta-Orsa on a vineyard that is as difficult to farm as it is magical.Martin may be the perfect guy for such a difficult job. He’s humble and unassuming, thorough and careful, with kindness and patience to boot. And maybe that’s why you haven’t heard of him or Alta Orsa, but that, and the kind of farming he’s doing despite herculean challenges, are exactly why I wanted to talk to him for the podcast.But even more than that, the Alta Orsa estate vineyard is something special. Halfway up a mountain at the end of what looks and drives like a dirt fire service road you come upon what could be an old Italian wine villa if it was set in Middle Earth. When the gate opens and you pass through the weathered stone entry, it’s like going through a faery door into another realm. Vineyard rows that have never been tilled in 30 years twist and turn over the steep contours of the mountainside, so closely planted that they must be tended entirely by hand…  and the wine that flows from them is dusky, rich, and complex.https://www.orsawines.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

By looking at wine from a different perspective, I think we can gain a greater appreciation and understanding of it, and also get some inspiration about how we could think completely differently about it, and how that might make it something less exclusive, more sustainable, and more fun.My guest for this episode is Sandor Katz. Sandor is the author of the books Wild Fermentation as well as The Art of Fermentation – which could be considered the fermentation Bible, and for which he received a James Beard Award – and his most recent book is Fermentation Journeys.The information Sandor gives in this episode could change not only the way you think, but also the way you eat and drink. I’ve actually been inspired to incorporate new ideas and ingredients into my winemaking and food-making because of this conversation.Sandor explains how the context of human life, and all life, is biodiversity. The human body is host to over a trillion bacteria, and countless other microorganisms. Rather than eliminate this microbiome, we need this community to be robust to maintain our health. Fermentation, in the context of a global pandemic, is a profound shift in thinking – away from sterility and toward diversity and resilience.And fermentation is a natural result of the abundance of life. Fermentation explodes categories and defies labels. It prevents waste and reuses byproducts.Sandor’s mission is to revive our connection to these ancient processes, and after this conversation I hope you feel as reconnected as I did.https://www.wildfermentation.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Olivia Maki and Mike Reis are my guests on this episode, and they are the owners of Redfield Cider Bar in Oakland, California! Redfield is one of just a handful of bars anywhere dedicated to Cider, as well as natural wine, and Olivia and Mike give us an in-depth exploration of what it takes to open and run such a bar… during a pandemic, no less.If you’ve ever dreamed of opening your own bar, this episode will give you the nitty gritty of what goes into it… and you may want to change your dream. Or you may get the vital info you need to make your dream a reality. And even if you don’t want to open a bar, Olivia and Mike will give you a vital perspective on what goes into you being able to casually sit down and enjoy a glass of wine or cider at your local wine bar. You may end up enjoying that glass a whole lot more.https://www.redfieldcider.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Ellen Cavalli is the co-apple grower, gleaner, forager, cidermaker and owner of Tilted Shed Cider Works, in Sonoma, California. She has a past career in publishing and continues to have a hand in the zine called Malus. I just discovered Malus thanks to Ellen, and I love it and highly recommend checking it out.At only 10 years in business, Tilted Shed has achieved serious notoriety in the west coast new wave of cider, and this conversation with Ellen is about to show you why.Ellen is as entertaining as she is insightful, and the laughs and pearls of wisdom continue in rapid fire throughout this entirely uncensored and unedited conversation. https://www.tiltedshed.com/https://www.maluszine.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Mimi Casteel started her journey by going to the forest. She found she could not save the forest from within, so she went to the farm. But she found she could not save the farm from within either, so she has recently taken the next step in her journey, and that was why I wanted to have this conversation with her… to ask her what that next step is, and why she’s taking it.But more than offering just the answers to these questions, Mimi offers us an urgent call to make big changes. She offers us hope in the resilience of the natural world. And she describes the vital need that we all have of getting and giving support to each other.We skip introductions in this interview, so if you don’t know who Mimi Casteel is, I urge you to search out her other interviews and talks. Mimi is my first repeat guest, so you can also find another great interview with her in the Organic Wine Podcast episode library.The context of this conversation is wine, of course. But wine has led us to ask some really big questions, questions about the sanity of our current economic model, questions about the sustainability of our global food system, questions about survival.Mimi’s perspectives are at once radical and compassionate. Revolutionary and life-affirming. You are in for a treat. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Todd Cavallo is the vingneron, with his partner Crystal Cornish, of Wild Arc Farm in the Hudson Valley of New York.This is a dense, practical and at times technical interview about being a thoughtful ecological producer of natural wine in the Northeast US. I I was taking notes.Among so many other helpful nuggets in this interview, you’re going to get some amazing tips about how to produce a natural piquette from the guy who started the piquette revolution.I love that this conversation started with bees, chickens, deer, eagles, beetles, grubs, composted chicken manure, and gardens. Once we begin to understand that the best wine grows from a diverse and vibrant ecosystem, the more we see that these seemingly tertiary topics are actually central to understanding and producing wine.I love that Todd and Crystal are thinking about NOT planting more grapes, but rather helping established grape producers switch to organic practices.I love that Todd is extremely thoughtful not just about what kind of sprays hes using in his vineyards, but who produces them, how often they must be applied and what that means for his carbon footprint, and how to spray more effectively.I love Todd’s emphasis on using local ingredients, including promoting the use of local materials for fermentation vessels… which involved a discussion about the American Chestnut, which, if you don’t know about, will be a great intro to what has been called the greatest ecological disaster in history.Wild Arc Farms was recently selected to produce a wine for Patagonia's new line of natural wines. https://www.wildarcfarm.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Gary Paul Nabhan is an Agricultural Ecologist, Ethnobotanist, Ecumenical Franciscan Brother, and author of over 30 books. His work has focused primarily on the interaction of biodiversity and cultural diversity of the arid binational Southwest. He is considered a pioneer in the local food movement and the heirloom seed saving movement.A first-generation Lebanese American, Nabhan was raised in Gary, Indiana. He worked at the headquarters for the first Earth Day in Washington DCGary has achieved several degrees, including a Ph.D. in the interdisciplinary arid lands resource sciences also at the University of Arizona, and he has received numerous awards including a Macarthur Fellowship. He co-founded Native Seeds/SEARCH  a non-profit conservation organization which works to preserve place-based Southwestern agricultural plants as well as knowledge of their uses, and he did the research to help Secretary Bruce Babbitt create Ironwood Forest National Monument.He now serves as the Kellogg Endowed Chair in Southwestern Borderlands Food and Water Security. At the University of Arizona, where he founded the Center for Regional Food Studies and catalyzed the initiative to have UNESCO designate Tucson as the first City of Gastronomy in the U.S.Despite all this, I only came to hear about Gary when Ricky Taylor of Alta Marfa forwarded me an article about Gary’s intra-institutional work to catalog and preserve the rich diversity of Mexico’s traditional fermented beverages. Maybe this shows my need to broaden my scope, or maybe it shows the power of these fermented beverages to capture attention… I’ll let you decide. Regardless, I’m so grateful to have discovered the wealth of wisdom and knowledge that is Gary Paul Nabhan, and I’m thrilled to be able to share him with you.https://www.garynabhan.com/Colonche, Tepache, Tesguino, Pulque, Mesquite, MescalSponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

Quinn Hobbs, the founder and owner of Hollow Wines, is my guest for this episode. Quinn is based here in the Los Angeles area, but makes wine in the Central Coast. I don’t think it’s inaccurate to call Quinn a maverick. He wants to build Hollow Wines to be the Gallo of sustainable, environmentally positive wine, and shake up the wine industry. Hes going big, and thinking big.Quinn takes a holistic perspective on what it means to farm responsibly, wants to make it more acceptable to buy wine in cans to reduce wine’s carbon footprint, and he’s followed the lead of his own health to embrace natural, minimal intervention winemaking.In addition to being a disrupter of the wine world with big plans, he’s a father, he’s studying for a phd, and He’s never more than a short drive from the ocean  so that he can get some surfing in with all his free time. That’s a joke. Quinn has no free time. But he does love to surf. Enjoy!https://hollowwines.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe

It’s a pleasure to introduce you to Rob Durham of Durham Cider and Wine Company in this episode. Rob is rocking the California Central Coast Cider scene, but also makes cider that represents the entire west coast of the US. Rob’s journey to start Durham Cider and Wine didn’t follow a straight path, so this conversation rambles around a bit uncovering fascinating and really admirable insights into his knowledge and experience at every turn.Rob has crossed North America on a bike, owned an edible landscaping company, worked on an organic potato farm in Idaho, gotten fired from his first brewery job, and now makes close to 20 ciders and wines each year (though he hope to make less varieties), with names like Everything Is Mood and Space Parade. I hope that, like me, this conversation will cause you to want to get to know him and his ciders better. Enjoy!https://www.durhamciderandwine.com/Sponsor:https://www.centralaswine.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit beyondorganicwine.substack.com/subscribe