Art of Procurement

"Persuasion is about your intent. If your intent is solely to win at the other person's expense, that's manipulation. If you want the other party to also benefit from the conversation, then that's collaborative, and that's ethical persuasion." - Martin John Procurement leaders know that success often depends on more than just negotiating skills or cost models; it demands the ability to influence people at every level. But what does it take to move from presenting facts to truly persuading suppliers, stakeholders, and executives to take action? This is a question that's more urgent than ever in today's complex business environment. In this episode of Art of Procurement, Philip Ideson speaks with Martin John, a seasoned procurement pro and licensed ethical persuasion trainer. Martin shares tools and science-backed frameworks that chief procurement officers and their teams can use right away. He pulls back the curtain on Cialdini's principles, real-world negotiation stories, and how to avoid crossing the line into manipulation. In this episode, Martin discusses how to: Recognize the thin line between ethical persuasion and manipulation Build trust and rapport faster using evidence, not guesswork Move beyond data to engage the emotions and subconscious drivers of decision-makers Translate behavioral science into everyday procurement Links: Martin John on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

"Direct materials is the most under-innovated, untouched by modern technology of any spend area." - Spencer Penn, Co-Founder and CEO, LightSource Direct spend makes up the lion's share of the procurement budget, but all too often, it's still managed in spreadsheets and disconnected tools. Today's volatile supply market and relentless cost pressures demand more. What is holding companies back from real transformation in direct procurement, and where do the smartest teams focus their innovation efforts? In this AOP podcast episode, host Philip Ideson speaks with Spencer Penn, co-founder and CEO of LightSource. Drawing from his hands-on experience at Tesla and Waymo, Spencer explains why direct procurement's digital journey has lagged behind indirect, and what it takes to move from manual, reactive "firefighting" to scalable, collaborative value creation. If you're wondering how to unite engineering, procurement, and finance to drive structural cost reduction, or how to leverage tech for more than basic automation, this episode is a must-listen. In this episode, Spencer talks about how to: Make sense of why most direct procurement processes are still manual Learn how collaboration between procurement, engineering, and suppliers drives lasting savings See where legacy thinking and incentives stall change (and how to overcome it) Discover what tech can enable and when people are essential Find out why small sourcing decisions at scale become huge bottom-line wins Links: Spencer Penn on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

"AI has fantastic value when you look at spend analytics, sourcing decisions, and process efficiency, but to replace the infancy stage that allows you to have a relationship with stakeholders, I think, is a mistake." – Brad Keighley Digitization and automation promise so much for procurement, but what gets lost if we let technology run the show? As organizations scale and regulatory pressure mounts, the ability to connect on a human level can become a procurement superpower. Ignore it, and procurement risks becoming just another system, not a strategic partner. As a multiple-time CPO and procurement transformation leader, Brad Keighley has built teams for startups, pre-IPO rocket ships, and tech giants. In this episode, he shares how to structure procurement for growth while staying close to stakeholders, explains why focusing only on savings is a mistake, and offers practical approaches to scaling service without losing the personal touch. In this conversation, Brad discusses how to: Diagnose and fix legacy issues to win skeptical stakeholders Sell the true value of procurement by leading with risk management and compliance Build a "white glove" centralized service model for maximum spend capture and influence Layer automation and analytics where it matters, without sacrificing partnership Use stakeholder feedback to drive continuous improvement and protect procurement's reputation Links: Brad Keighley on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

In a rapidly evolving digital landscape, the future of procurement hinges on readiness and cultural adaptation rather than just technology. A focus on intent over mere automation is crucial for designing effective operating models. Curiosity and experimentation are encouraged among leaders as they navigate AI integration. Efficiency gains must be strategically redirected to avoid workforce reductions. The conversation emphasizes that technology should act as a catalyst for transformative change, shaping procurement into a proactive business function.

"The first time that you speak with a supplier shouldn't be in a time of crisis. Our best customers work with us regularly, and we're constantly hearing from them." - Rick Bond, Chief Revenue Officer, Safeware When a crisis hits, procurement must move at lightning speed… but without cutting corners. How do public agencies build systems that are nimble, compliant, and ready for anything? The answer to that question lies in proactive preparation, robust cooperative agreements, and the partnerships that power an effective emergency response. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Tammy Rimes, Executive Director of National Cooperative Procurement Partners, and Rick Bond, Safeware's Chief Revenue Officer. Together, they share what really happens behind the scenes when disaster strikes, and how contract strategies and supplier relationships can turn from routine to lifesaving overnight. They also examine hard lessons learned from the pandemic, the critical role of due diligence, and why warehousing strategies are making a comeback. From practical war stories to high-level frameworks, this episode is a playbook for anyone navigating risk and rapid response. In this episode, Tammy and Rick discuss how to: Create ready-to-launch emergency contracts before you need them Run fast but thorough due diligence, even with "easy" agreements Build supplier relationships that go beyond the transaction Balance just-in-time strategies with smart warehousing investments Hold both parties accountable for resilience, not just price Links: Executive Briefing: Cooperative Procurement as a Tool for Emergency Preparedness Tammy Rimes on LinkedIn Rick Bond on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

After 23 episodes of dissecting procurement's incentive flaws, behavioral blind spots, and structural contradictions, the "Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement" podcast team closes season one with something different: reflection, humor, a little chaos, and a first look at what comes next. In this episode, Rich Ham seizes the mic for a surprise "hostile takeover," pulling Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner into a rapid-fire look back at the most memorable moments of the season. What follows is part game show, part roast, and part highlight reel. In short, the perfect way to close a project built on saying the quiet parts out loud. Rich counts down his "top seven" insights from guests like Martin Chilcott, Thomas Udesen, Kate Vitasek, and Omid Ghamami, and the topics they discussed, from decarbonization realities to incentive design failures, from short-termism to purpose-driven procurement. The list captures what this season repeatedly revealed: procurement isn't held back by a lack of talent or ambition, but by systems and incentives that don't reflect the impact leaders know they can deliver. This episode isn't just a retrospective. It also marks the transition from discovery to design. After months of interviews, research, and internal debate, the team announces what's next: The Buylaws – a set of guiding principles for a healthier, more purposeful procurement incentive system. Early 2026 will bring a new mini-series dedicated to unpacking each one of these recommendations. As we've learned, procurement's potential is enormous, but potential becomes purpose only when incentives, behavior, and business outcomes finally align. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com

"If you don't go on the journey, you risk being left behind. The key is to try, learn, and apply AI in a way that creates real value." - Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP AI isn't just another feature on your tech checklist. It's changing the way procurement teams deliver impact… but only for those bold enough to rethink from the ground up. In this podcast episode, host Philip Ideson speaks with Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP, who shares what it looks like to rebuild an established platform like Ariba on a true AI foundation. Fang's team didn't just layer new tech onto old workflows; they tore everything down and rebuilt with AI at the core. If you've ever asked whether your team should wait for the "next" wave of AI innovation or start learning by doing, this conversation is a must-listen. Fang walks through technical choices, balancing agility with reliability, and what an AI-powered procurement experience now enables for the business. In this episode, Fang discusses: Why simply layering AI onto legacy tools leaves value on the table How to decide where AI creates business outcomes… and where it doesn't What real agility looks like in a fast-evolving AI landscape How contextual "insights to action" bring value at every step The new balance of human oversight with AI-driven workflows Links: Fang Chang on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

After nearly a year of exploring procurement's incentive paradox from every angle, Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner reconvene to connect the dots between three of the series' most thought-provoking guests: Jason Brown, David Loseby, and Omid Ghamami. Each offered a distinct lens on the same fundamental question: What does performance really mean in procurement today? Jason Brown framed incentives as an operating system: a structure that shapes behavior and defines what purpose looks like in practice. David Loseby reminded us that real change starts with understanding people, not just systems. And Omid Ghamami challenged procurement to stop claiming victory at contract signature and start measuring success by real-world outcomes actually achieved. As the co-hosts unpack these different takes on procurement performance, they uncover a unifying truth: procurement's metrics may have been right for their time, but the time has changed. Savings-driven scorecards and transactional incentives no longer fit a function expected to deliver innovation, resilience, and strategic value. The discussion also looks ahead to what comes next as the co-hosts think about how AI reshapes the function, causing headcounts to shrink and expectations to rise. Can procurement redefine its purpose before automation defines it for them? The answer, they argue, lies in alignment: between incentives and impact, between humans and technology, and between what we buy and what we're genuinely trying to achieve. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com

"Your contracts are your source of truth. You should have a tool that can go through the contracts and help you understand the impact and make an assessment, all in one place." -Toby Laforest, Senior Director PMM - Market Insights and Solutions at Ironclad Procurement leaders can no longer afford to wait for requests to land in their inbox. Facing regulatory change, market volatility, and growing demand for business partnership, some organizations are reimagining their procurement operating models and putting technology and process both front and center. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Clare Cassano, Head of Procurement Strategy & Execution at Invesco, and Toby LaForest from Ironclad, share how Invesco tackled the shift from reactive service to proactive business enablement. They discuss the tough choices behind their technology stack, the reality of orchestration layers, and why "best fit" often wins over "best-in-class" for their unique needs. Listen in for practical lessons on realigning talent, building true contract intelligence, and future-proofing your procurement process with an eye toward AI and automation. In this episode, Clare and Toby discuss: How AI-enabled contract management can deliver real-time contract insights, not just document storage Honest advice about choosing best fit tech over one-size-fits-all suites Future opportunities (and things to watch out for) related to agentic AI in procurement Links: Toby Laforest on LinkedIn Clare Cassano on LinkedIn From Reactive to Strategic: Transforming Procurement Through Contract Intelligence Contracting for Speed: How Orchestration Empowers Procurement Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

"Taking the time to get input, to get the feedback and listen to the needs might add a few weeks up front, but ultimately, you're going to have a better, stronger solution and support and alignment." - Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing Principal, Emergent, LLC Procurement and business leaders face a tangled web: legacy systems, evolving digital capabilities, and rising pressure to do more with less. How do you design an operating model that truly enables transformation without adding more complexity? In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing Principal at Emergent LLC. Jesse's experience guiding Fortune 500 organizations through high-stakes change gives him a practical, people-focused outlook on what really makes business transformation work. In this episode, Philip and Jesse explore how operating models can either help or hinder procurement, why quick fixes rarely stick, and how to leverage change management and AI for meaningful, lasting results. Jesse's insights on avoiding common mistakes and building "muscle memory" for change are a must-hear for anyone stepping into (or leading) transformation. In this episode, Jesse discusses how to: See operating models as interconnected "super systems" rather than isolated processes Identify and untangle legacy complexity before making changes Make the case for change both rationally and emotionally Use AI to augment – not replace – human decision-making Build resilience with ongoing, bite-sized upskilling programs Links: Jesse Jacoby on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube