

The Sound of Economics
Bruegel
The Sound of Economics brings you insights, debates, and research-based discussions on economic policy in Europe and beyond.
The podcast is produced by Bruegel, an independent and non-doctrinal think tank based in Brussels. It seeks to contribute to European and global economic policy-making through open, fact-based, and policy-relevant research, analysis, and debate.
The podcast is produced by Bruegel, an independent and non-doctrinal think tank based in Brussels. It seeks to contribute to European and global economic policy-making through open, fact-based, and policy-relevant research, analysis, and debate.
Episodes
Mentioned books

8 snips
Jul 26, 2023 • 44min
Read with Bruegel: Backfire: How Sanctions Reshape the World Against U.S. Interests
The Sound of Economics is bringing you a summer 2023 special series, 'Read with Bruegel.' In this series, we have the pleasure of hosting renowned authors who will discuss various economic issues based on their insightful books. We hope this conversation will inspire you to explore their books and offer you some food for thought during your summer break.
In this episode of the series, Bruegel Senior fellow Maria Demertzis welcomes Agathe Demarais, Global forecasting director, Economist Intelligence Unit, to discuss her latest book ‘Backfire: How Sanctions Reshape the World Against U.S. Interests’.
From Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to Iran’s COVID response and China’s cryptocurrency ambitions, they discuss how sanctions are transforming geopolitics and the global economy—as well as diminishing U.S. influence. They also exchange views on global fragmentation and how to save multilateralism and cooperation.

5 snips
Jul 19, 2023 • 18min
Assessing China's quest for innovation
The Chinese economy is at a crossroads. The investment-driven growth model, which the government had relied on for the last four decades, is running out of steam. Fiscal deficits are widening and public debt is rising. Furthermore, population aging is becoming more visible and the pandemic had some scarring effects which have taken a toll both on consumer and business confidence.
The very rapid rise in wages since the global financial crisis is pushing China to get ahead in its production capabilities so it will be productive enough to continue to raise wages and avoid the middle-income trap. Pressure on the economy is further intensified by the recent increase in geopolitical tensions and fears of decoupling between the US and China.
As the Chinese economy continues to decelerate, the central government is investing heavily in innovation, doubling down on research and development (R&D) spending and STEM-oriented human capital.
In this episode of The Sound of Economics, Giuseppe Porcaro invites Alicia García-Herrero and Robin Schindowski to discuss the challenges China faces, including three potential bottlenecks that might be hindering the translation of China’s innovation efforts into productivity growth, with a specific focus on whether Chinese growth can defy gravity.
Relevant publication
Schindowski, R. and A. Garcia-Herrero (2023) ‘China’s quest for innovation: progress and bottlenecks', Working Paper 08/2023, Bruegel
Garcia-Herrero, A. (2023) ‘Can Chinese growth defy gravity?’ Policy Brief 14/2023, Bruegel
This episode is part of the ZhōngHuá Mundus series of The Sound of Economics. ZhōngHuá Mundus is a newsletter by Bruegel, bringing you monthly analysis of China in the world, as seen from Europe. Sign up now to receive it in your mailbox!
This is an output of China Horizons, Bruegel's contribution in the project Dealing with a resurgent China (DWARC). This project has received funding from the European Union’s HORIZON Research and Innovation Actions under grant agreement No. 101061700.

Jul 12, 2023 • 34min
Section 232 Tariffs on Steel and Aluminium
In June 2018, the US Trump administration introduced tariffs on European steel and aluminium exports, starting a long-time dispute between the two trade partners.
On 31 October 2021, the European Union and the United States agreed on temporary measures to settle their dispute over US Section 232 ‘national security’ tariffs on EU steel and aluminium products. In addition to opening tariff rate quotas for historical EU export volumes, the joint EU-US statement mandates negotiations on a “global steel and aluminium arrangements to restore market-oriented conditions and address carbon intensity”, with a deadline of 31 October 2023.
As this deadline approaches, negotiators from Brussels and Washington are scrambling to get a deal. At the same time the discussions have been overlapping with the broader goals of supporting the green transition and need to be considered against the backdrop of the geopolitical rivalry between the USA and China.
In this episode of The Sound of Economics, Giuseppe Porcaro invites Kimberly Clausing and David Kleimann to disentangle the ongoing negotiations and explore the legal, diplomatic and economic consequences of these negotiations through a transatlantic perspective.
Relevant publication:
Kleimann, D. (2023) ‘Section 232 reloaded: the false promise of the transatlantic ‘climate club’ for steel and aluminium’, Working Paper 11/2023, Bruegel
This research output received funding from Pool Fund on International Energy (PIE), within the European Climate Foundation.

Jul 5, 2023 • 30min
The triple purpose of EU industrial policy
Today, the mitigation of climate change is one of the most important issues worldwide. However, governments also need to prioritise geopolitical resilience and economic growth when designing their industrial policies.
In this episode of the Sound of Economics, Giuseppe Porcaro is joined by Philippe Aghion, Simone Tagliapietra and Reinhilde Veugelers to discuss what an innovative, European-level industrial policy would look like and how it could address all those competing objectives.
They propose that the EU should engage in ‘co-opetition’ with the United States and China, which includes co-operation and maintaining economic ties to facilitate global decarbonisation most efficiently. At the same time, they argue that investing in new technologies in the EU is key to ensure its competitiveness and economic stability.
Relevant publication:
Aghion, P., K. Ahuja, C. P. Bown, U. Cantner, C. Criscuolo, A. Dechezleprêtre, M. Dewatripont, R. Hausmann, G. Lalanne, B. McWilliams, D. Rodrik, S. Tagliapietra, A. Terzi, C. Trasi, L. Tyson, R. Veugelers, G. Zachmann and J. Zysman (2023) Sparking Europe’s new industrial revolution: a policy for net zero, growth and resilience.

Jun 28, 2023 • 32min
Read with Bruegel: The Palgrave Handbook of Global Politics in the 22nd Century
The Sound of Economics is bringing you a summer 2023 special series, 'Read with Bruegel.' In this series, we have the pleasure of hosting renowned authors who will discuss various economic issues based on their insightful books. We hope this conversation will inspire you to explore their books and offer you some food for thought during your summer break.
In this episode, Giuseppe Porcaro invites Isabella Hermann and Laura Horn to discuss their latest book, ‘The Palgrave Handbook of Global Politics in the 22nd Century’.
The book mirrors the format and style of existing handbooks, combining outlines and discussions of theories, structures, processes and core issues in international relations with an academic science fiction account of how these might play out over the course of the next century.

7 snips
Jun 21, 2023 • 1h 1min
Read with Bruegel: The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism
The Sound of Economics is bringing you a summer 2023 special series, 'Read with Bruegel.' In this series, we have the pleasure of hosting renowned authors who will discuss various economic issues based on their insightful books. We hope this conversation will inspire you to explore their books and offer you some food for thought during your summer break.
In the first episode of the series, Bruegel Director Jeromin Zettelmeyer welcomes Martin Wolf, Chief economics commentator at the Financial Times to discuss his latest book ‘The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism’.
Liberal democracy is in recession and authoritarianism is on the rise. Together, Jeromin and Martin discuss why democracy and capitalism are mutually sustaining in a world like this. They define the concept of democratic capitalism, explain why it is in a crisis and outline the proposed solutions.

Jun 14, 2023 • 32min
China's growing economic ties with the Gulf States
China's economic ties with the Gulf States have undergone significant changes in recent years. Although historically there was little interaction between China and the Middle East, the past decade has seen a transformative shift with far-reaching implications for trade, business and politics.
According to the IMF, trade between China and the Gulf countries has doubled from approximately $90 billion to $180 billion between 2010 and 2021. Additionally, the Gulf region has become a significant recipient of China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) funding.
In this episode of The Sound of Economics, Giuseppe Porcaro sits down with Karen E. Young and Alicia García-Herrero to discuss the growing economic relations between China and the Gulf States. They mention the changing dynamics of trade, investment, currency as well as potential political alliance shifts in the region. They also discuss the changing dynamics of foreign policy with a stronger focus on energy security, leaving an opportunity of leverage for the Gulf States.

Jun 8, 2023 • 32min
Debt dynamics: Exploring EU borrowing in changing times
In recent years, European Commission borrowing on behalf of the European Union has changed significantly in both scale and nature. This is mainly due to the financing of the Support to mitigate Unemployment Risks in an Emergency (SURE) and NextGeneration EU (NGEU) instruments introduced in response to Covid-19.
For the first time, the EU is now faced with its own debt, which will have to be paid for through the EU budget. When these programmes were launched, interest rates were at historic lows. However, they have since risen rapidly, both in absolute terms and as compared to sovereign borrowers like Germany and France.
In this episode of The Sound of Economics, Maria Demertzis invites Grégory Claeys and Conor McCaffrey to discuss the causes of this rise in EU borrowing costs, as well as its wider implications on the EU budget, indicated in their latest paper.
Relevant piece: Claeys, G., C. McCaffrey and L. Welslau (2023) ‘The rising cost of European Union borrowing and what to do about it’ Policy Brief 12/2023, Bruegel

May 31, 2023 • 20min
China’s growth: what is to come?
China’s astounding growth has slowed down over the last decade. Despite enormous progress and investment in research and development, China’s medium-term GDP growth is expected to fall to 2.4% by 2035. The Chinese economy will not grow much larger than the US economy in the foreseeable future, which has important geopolitical implications.
In this episode of the Sound of Economics, Giuseppe Porcaro is joined by Alicia García-Herrero and Max Zenglein to talk about the interconnectedness of China’s long-term growth prospect and its demographics. They discuss how economic deceleration impacts innovation, productivity and the wider society, as well as potential economic and foreign policy responses from the country’s leadership. The importance and possible effects of China’s future economic trajectory on the European Union are explored too.
This episode is part of the ZhōngHuá Mundus series of The Sound of Economics. ZhōngHuá Mundus is a newsletter by Bruegel, bringing you monthly analysis of China in the world, as seen from Europe. Sign up now to receive it in your mailbox!
This is an output of China Horizons, Bruegel's contribution in the project Dealing with a resurgent China (DWARC). This project has received funding from the European Union’s HORIZON Research and Innovation Actions under grant agreement No. 101061700.

May 24, 2023 • 32min
Skills-shift: navigating the future of work
Digitalisation, robotisation and automation are changing the nature of jobs at an unprecedented rate. Newly emerging technologies are not only reducing the jobs performed by humans but also transforming the way people work. EU economies are undergoing a significant transition leading to the displacement of workers across all industries and workers find themselves in need of reskilling and upskilling to switch to jobs which are high in demand.
The European Commission has named 2023 as its European Year of Skills with the stated goal to give fresh impetus to lifelong learning, empowering people and companies to contribute to the green and digital transitions, while supporting innovation and competitiveness.
In the new Skills series of The Sound of Economics, we discuss how we can utilise upskilling and reskilling initiatives to protect vulnerable groups of the workforce, how to build a resilient workforce and a create better functioning EU labour market. In the first episode of the series, Giuseppe Porcaro sits down with Duygu Güner and El Iza Mohamedou to discuss the critical importance of reskilling and upskilling, examining the obstacles workers face in adapting to this new reality, all while exploring the pathways to achieving a resilient workforce.
This podcast was produced within the project “Future of Work and Inclusive Growth in Europe“, with the financial support of the Mastercard Center for Inclusive Growth.


