Humans of Martech

What’s up everyone! Today we have a super special guest on the show, this interview is more than 12 months in the making – You probably already follow him on Twitter – I’ve personally learned a bunch from him and know you’re going to get a lot of value from our conversation today. Today we’re joined by Corey Haines.He’s a full time creator and the former head of Growth at Baremetrics. These days he keeps busy with many different things. He runs a weekly newsletter, And a growing marketing community, He also manages multiple podcasts, he wrote a few SaaS marketing courses, he built-sold-and bought back a marketing jobboard and he’s a startup marketing consultant/advisor. Most importantly, Corey’s all-round great dude with a world class beard.Corey, we’re grateful to have you on the show – thanks for taking the time.September 2020, you quit your job at Baremetrics to become a full time creator. You wrote about this and described it like you strapped on a spacesuit, launched into space and your plan is to figure out where you want to go from there.  How has the journey been 1.5 years later? Do you know where you’re going yet?Yeah. Oh, man. The last year has been a whirlwind. I guess it's almost been like a year and a half now since I left. The North Star guiding goal has been to get into SaaS myself, start a SaaS company, maybe even a couple of products, and just have a small portfolio of bets and multiple things going on at once and see where they all kind of take me. I knew that doing that with a full time job is pretty hard, especially when I didn't want to step on your toes at Bearmetrics since we sold other SaaS startups. So I didn't want to build something that ended up competing with one of our customers. So I just kind of knew, like, that wasn't really an option for me. I didn't want to get another job and then start working on those side projects as well. But also, I wasn't really even close to building anything quite yet anyways. But I just wanted to kind of pull the trigger and jump and strap onto the rocketship, get into space. And then I could figure out where I was going from there. And on a personal level, very, very challenging. And like a lot of learning on hey, here's how to manage cash flow for all the different kinds of feasts and family cycles of freelancing and consulting. And just like knowing where to kind of find money and all the different revenue streams that you have when you're on your own, you don't have a paycheck really coming through the door. From a time management perspective, I've really learned how to be super ruthless with my time. I would say for the first four or five months I imagined once I left, I was like, I'm going to be free. I have so much time, I'm just going to get so much done. All these things are on my list. And then I didn't get anything done for like four months. I was like, what is happening? And because I had so many different meetings, so many admin things. I was busy doing emails, I was trying to chip away at small things here and there, but I was never really moving the ball forward in any one direction. And so I learned to be really ruthless. Now I do most of my meetings, like 95% of my meetings on Wednesdays. The rest of the week is completely wide open and I set what I want to get done, and I get those things done. And sometimes I work late, sometimes I work early. But you have to be really ruthless. It's been a great learning experience because really through the startups that I've worked for, consulting, advising, freelancing. Now I’m basically the marketing lead for Savvy Cal as well. So that's kind of helped bring back some stability in my life. And I see them all as just kind of practice rounds and getting in the reps and sets for learning how to build and grow a SaaS startup for when I want to do that for myself and for my own, especially the last year and a half, it's been like an invaluable learning lesson. Bootstrapping SaaS is really hard. You have to put yourself in the right position. Honestly, I wouldn't say that going the VC route is easier because I think raising money is really, really hard and it's a grind. And once you're on that track, there's a lot of expectations and it's a whole different game. But in the early days, it's easier because you have money, you pay yourself a paycheck. You hire the people to work with you. Bootstrapping is not easy. And so I would count this last year and a half as a part of my bootstrapping journey for building SaaS because it's all the work you have to do in order to be able to be financially stable, to put your time on something else completely without your whole world kind of exploding and going broke or, like, maxing out your credit cards. So I'm doing the best that I can, but I think I’m doing a pretty okay job so far. Multiple eggs in different basketsOne thing I want to ask about – you kind of mention the various different projects you're working on, like the idea of having multiple eggs in different baskets. What is the appeal of that for your personality? And how do you manage that as you're pushing these projects forward? I think that it's not necessarily, like, shiny object syndrome. I think that's what a lot of people conflate with having a lot of projects. You start one thing and then jump to the next one before you really kind of see the potential of it. I'm not really like that. It's more that I'm just mega impatient, and I just want to see all these things exist, and I want to do them and I'll do them all at once. My life is kind of, like, chaos sometimes. That's also why I leave four days out of the week completely wide open to get a lot of work-work done. I just want to see those things exist. I just want to work on them. I'm kind of a yes person and where I want to have my cake and eat it too. I just don't really like compromising and leaving something for later. So that's more the thought and the spirit behind multiple things. It's not really diversifying my income and multiple revenue streams and millionaires have seven sources of income. It's more just like, I want to work on all those things. I think they're fun. I want to see them exist, and I don't want to do them sequentially. I want to do them currently. What would it take to get you back in-houseSo, in-house, freelance, consultant, entrepreneur… Now you're getting a taste of all of them at the same time. Maybe someone in the audience right now is kind of thinking to themselves, I want to hire this Corey Haines guy that maybe this is not likely to happen… You possibly get a lot of offers to go back in-house. What would it take to get you back in-house? Or how would you design your ideal in-house role? Or scrap the question completely and tell me why the entrepreneur journey is the only way to go. Okay, well, I'll give you a Humans of Martech exclusive, because I haven't talked about this really anywhere else. So for last year, I've been working with someone who we were going to build SaaS together, and it's sort of like that was like the main thing. I'm putting most of my eggs in this basket. Long term, I want to work with this person. Then it turned out, his other businesses became too successful to really be able to step away from it even part time. So basically it came to a point where like, hey, we're good friends. We would love to do this, but it's just like not going to happen. It's just not realistic for this stage of our lives. That's a huge bummer because I was kind of j...

What’s up folks – we’ve been away for a while but we’re back and in full swing for season 2 with even better content than season 1.Today we’re going to tease some of our early season 2 episodes and catch you up on what we’ve been up to since our break.JT, in August of last year, your world changed in two huge ways. Your wife gave birth to twin boys Felix and Clyde.You might hear them in the background of a few episodes as we usually coincide with feeding time.Man – a huge family of 6 now, 2 girls, 2 boys… are things starting to settle down a bit now having crossed the 6 month mark?As a hopeful parent one day myself, I have many questions, the first is: with your twin boys, did you ever mix up which baby was which and just went with it? Is it true that even in identical twins, belly buttons are always different and the best way to tell them apart?Walk me through the routine of managing a tsunami of children. When does Jon go to bed, between all the diaper changes, do you get any time for yourself, are you still finding yourself able to get up super early?You’ve said to me that having a 4th baby is like being handed a baby while you’re already treading water… Do you still agree that going from 0-1 is the biggest transition?Tell the listeners about your freaking sauna and how it’s changed your life LOLSo after your parental leave – you took back the helm of leading Klipfolio’s marketing team. What’s exciting you the most about what the team is cooking up over there these days?Phil, you started at Automattic / WordPress.com in June last summer, you’re coming up on 10ish months now. Having only ever worked in startups before, how’s it been adapting to a 2,000+ person org?It’s been pretty wild honestly. Automattic is like a mini Berkshire Hathaway – a holding company of sorts that houses many different products and brands under one roof. I have colleagues that work on Woo Commerce (the open source Shopify), Tumblr (Taylor Swift’s favorite social media platform), and some that work with me on WordPress.com. But we also have WordPress VIP, JetPack, Long Reads, Simplenote and during my early days there we acquired PocketCasts (the best podcast app) and DayOne (a journaling app that I’ve been using for many years).So wpcom isn’t a 2,000 person company, we’re like 400 but yeah biggest marketing team I’ve ever been part of for sure. Biggest transition period for me was less about working with a bigger team and more about working asynchronously across multiple different teams. We use a tool called P2, its an open source collaboration app built on Gutenberg/WP and it’s how we mainly communicate with each other.Aside from a few HR emails, I don’t think I’ve ever had an email from a colleague. Everything is on P2 or on Slack. We do have some synchronous zoom calls, but any key decisions is always posted back on P2.Missed a week because of a vacation, you don’t need to have a colleague catch you up in a meeting, you have a nice list of unread P2 posts and you’re right back into it.It honestly feels like a different world… but I think it’s where the world is moving.What excites you the most about working at WP almost hitting the 1 year mark.I’ve sharpened my growth experimentation skills and my email copywriting skills but I find the product fascinating. I got to take a tiny part in rolling out FSE, WordPress’ big 5.9 update which came with some huge changes to the product. It’s already been downloaded by 60M sites across the world and it’s been really fun tagging along and seeing the next lineup of changes.So with all the stuff going on, we definitely leaned on guest episodes to start season 2 and we’ve got some big names, some folks are huge on twitter, some folks are c level in big tech, some are up and coming super stars, you know us, we've got a nice mix of folks with wide ranging topics and opinions.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

HUGE thank you to all of our awesome guests. In celebration of our 50th episode, we're rounding up all the answers to the most important question we asked every single one of our guests: what advice do they have on how they've managed to balance everything life throws at them and how they stay happy and sane at work.This is our 50th episode. Most of our episodes were actually just the two of us, jamming on a topic. Sometimes we went deep in a technical topic like email deliverability or lifecycle. Sometimes we talked about the people skills, working in tech, working remote. 15 of our 50 episodes had guest interviews. We showcased martech folks from different roles and seniority levels. But for each of our guests, we finished by asking the same question: What advice do you have on how to balance everything life throws at you and how do you stay happy and sane at work?Our guests share their answers back to back, time stamps below:02:00 - Lauren Sanborn (05: Happiness at the intersection of sales & marketing)"Happiness is all about your perspective, 25% your situation and 75% how you look at it." 05:22 - Brian Leonard (07: Be friends with engineering with open source Martech)"The secret of autonomy and purpose is to work on something that is important. Find a way to write your own job description so that it lines up with your purpose and mastery."06:16 - Nick Donaldson (10: Curiosity, learning & success in your MOPs career)"Prioritize your family and your friends. Turn off notifications outside work hours and dedicate time to doing things you enjoy." 07:40 - Jonathan Simon (11: Do you still need a degree to have success in marketing?)"It’s hard. Exercise and mental health is incredibly important. Pick up hobbies, do what makes you happy, find time for yourself." 11:02 - Julie Beynon (17: Making marketing analytics not intimidating)"You have to be proactive. You’re the only person that owns your happiness. If you’re not happy, you need to fix it, not someone else."13:10 - Steffen Hedebrandt (19: Reaching B2B attribution nirvana)"Having a kid makes you become really good at prioritizing. I ask myself, does this make me happy or does this correlate with more revenue yes or no?" 14:40 - Naomi Liu (25: How to ace your first marketing job)"Tech is my love language, and I get a lot of satisfaction using it to solve other peoples problems both in my personal life and business."15:08 - Melissa Ledesma (26: Melissa Ledesma: Women of Martech)"I encourage you to step away and talk to your friends about your job. They will not understand a word of what you’re saying, and let them show you their own excitement and absorb that. There’s so much more for us to be invigorated by if we take a moment to remember what we’re actually doing." 16:45 - Erin Blaskie (27: Startup marketing, in-house vs freelance)"Ditch everyone else’s definition of success. Nobody cares that you drive a BMW and it likely won’t amount to additional happiness. Focus on what would make you feel successful as a person and don’t be afraid of having a non linear path." 19:11 - Shannon McCluskey (37: Searching for remote martech pros)"Ever since I’ve become a mom I’ve been learning by necessity and actively keeping my working hours 9-5. Remote work is always around the corner but it’s important to get that distance to make sure you connect with family."20:37 - Pierce Ujjainwalla (39: Creativity in marketing is under attack)"I never work past 5. I never work on the weekends. I attribute happiness to pleasure and challenges. Pleasure is golfing and skiing and I find a lot of challenge in my work but also some hobbies. Lawn care gives me a mental break. Digging out weeds is very relaxing." 22:33 - Manuela Barcenas (41: From first marketer to team manager)"To stay balanced and happy, find activities that make you feel good, block time in your calendar for specific tasks and get into journaling."24:38 - Roxanne Pepin (44: Startups and the ability to learn RevOps)"Having a separate space in your house for where you work. Being able to “leave” and not have to bring your work with you in other places of your house. Oh and take Slack off your phone!"26:54 - Danica Bateman (46: A day in the life of a Marketing Automation Manager)"Surround yourself with positive people. People that are invested in your success and want to see you grow and thrive." 27:48 - Vladlena Mitskaniouk (47: Grow your marketing career one data mystery at a time)"Acknowledge that things came in waves. When the clam is there, really embrace those moments. Don’t always try and push yourself through every moment. Book vacation well ahead of time and check out. Book time for your lunch, book time for your workouts, book time in the morning to do a checkin with yourself. No one else is going to save that time for you. "✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Half of all podcasts have fewer than 14 episodes. When we started Humans of Martech, we were determined not to become a statistic.As we near the end of our first season and approach our 50th episode, we wanted to give you a peek behind the curtain to see how we think about this show.For us, at least, the idea of hitting 50 episodes is a big milestone -- and anyone thinking of starting their own shows -- whether it’s a personal project or for your company -- needs to be prepared to put in some work.Let’s dive in!Show thesis & missionWhy is your show worth your audience’s timeWhy is it worth your timeYou have to be motivated to do this week after weekEquipmentQuality is important; get a good set upMic; A cardioid (heart shaped) polar range eliminates unwanted background noise from behind and the sides, making this an affordable mic that's suited for podcastingAudio-Technica 20 SERIES AT2005USB Cardioid Dynamic Microphone amazon linkI read a lot about mics and tested a few out, I don’t recommend the Blue Yeti mic despite so many podcast guides recommend it. You will suffer from something called proximity effect. The Blue Yeti is a Condenser Mic, not a dynamic mic. Condenser mics will pick up sounds a mile away, and there are indeed valid concerns around air conditioners running etc.Get a pop filter, practice how to mindfully not blow air in the mic when you pronounce Ss and Ps and Ts.Zoom — but also tried riverside. Riverside was amazing quality, but too amazing. We needed to clean up too much of the audio because it highlighted too many imperfections for my taste. Zoom gets the job done, make sure in your settings you boost audio input from everyone, you don’t reduce too much background noise and that you record separate audio files for each participant. Editing -- Garageband for the win. I usually clean up the audio files in Audacity, I have a few plugins that clean up some audio, especially when we have a guest that comes on recording from their laptop mic.  DistributionTransistor.fm to auto distribute and host everything for usAnchor, soundcloud also optionsApple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsGoogle PodcastsA lot scrape Apple thoughApple isn’t a great service when publishing, any edits take a while to update the RSS, best to publish earlyStyle of showWe love having guests on but only about 40% of our episodes are run by a guestWe worked a lot on the show formatresearching and writing episodesone person as subject matter expert, one person as hostThe lost episodes5 or 6 episodes that were recorded and on Phil’s computerTook a while for us to get our groove. even the early episodes of this season we notice a big improvementPromotionThe part of the show we invest the least amount into. Our mission is to help marketers be happy & successful — we believe in that mission and that over time the show will build an audience by providing valueWe did experiment with a few things:Mailchimp listTwitter and LinkedIn posts weeklyHeadliner and audiogramsOwler for translationsIndividual episode artworkCohost vs solo: it’s really nice to have a cohost when interviewing guests — get a moment to think as you go; if there’s an awkward pause as you think of your next question the host comes in. Advice if you’re starting a podcast for your business or on your own:- Develop a strong thesis -- it’s the beating heart of the show and will keep you motivated in the long run

Whether you’ve got something lined up or you need a fresh start, quitting your job is a huge life decision, -- in today’s episode, we’ll cover signs to look out for that might be telling you it’s time to move on from your current role. Being successful and happy in martech requires having a true north for your career. Sometimes, that means recognizing that your current workplace isn’t helping you advance your career. It could be you’re not happy with your work culture or work for a bad manager; or, it could be that it’s time to move on to acquire the skills needed to reach the next level.Alright JT, I feel like this episode has been a long time in the making. We teased about it in the trailer, it’s something most people do a few times in their career; handing in that two weeks notice. But leaving a job isn’t always about leaving a bad workplace or boss. Sometimes you work for someone awesome at a great company, but it’s time to move on for your own progress. No one gets to decide that for you. You call the shots in your career.  Leaving a job should be objective: Make a list of pros and cons when comparing two positions. What factors matter most to you? What are your goals?  Knowing when to quit your job is about having a sense of your north star for your career. Having a north star for your careerFreedom with your careerHave red linesCareer mission statement For me, there’s many ways you can make this more complex for this but in its simplest form, the north star of your career is your vision for fulfilling 3 things: 1- Passion and meaning, something that motivates and energizes you2- Sustainable income, cover costs comfortably, save for futureAnd 3- can be pursued in balance with your personal life, something that allows you to spend time with family, build strong relationships and good health.  That’s it, it’s a simple formula. It’s more guide posts.  Early in your career, the 2nd factor is less important and usually the 3rd factor is less busy so you can double down on the first factor and discover your work passion and meaning. It’s okay to change your North star Career plans are meant to be flexible. My favorite part about the north star metaphor for career purposes is that the North star actually changes and it isn’t exactly north.  The current north star is Polaris, but because the Earth’s axis shifts every several thousand years, different stars will serve as north stars. But also, the North Star isn’t exactly north. Polaris is the closest star to true north, and is "close enough" for most basic navigation purposes- So your career north Star can change and it doesn’t have to be super specific.  Like our sailing ancestors, when we are lost at sea, it’s meant to guide us. We can always look up to the sky to reorient ourselves and get back on course.  Example:Years 1-5, no salary objective. Only objective: trying shit out.Years 4-6, company objective; work with top talent in cityYears 5-7, find a niche or dive into leadership GoalsAdvice: Have specific career goals every year or two, reset them. Maybe you joined a company as a marketing specialist with the goal of learning everything you can about their tech stack to one day become a marketing automation manager. That could be with that company, or another.Tell your boss about your goals, help them help youNever say no to a coffee, especially early onMoonlight/freelanceKeep a solid LinkedIn profile, keep an eye on jobsWhat does it mean to ‘hit’ your ceilingWhat does it mean to hit your ceiling and how do you know you’ve hit it? Is it when you staying in your comfort zone too often. “I learned everything I could” but did you? Is that even possible?Your career needs new stimuli:Growth requires stimulation. If you’re not getting enough in your current environment, it can feel like you’re stalling outNo mentor at your current workplace. This is why you sometimes see a chain reaction when a senior leader leaves Signs it’s time to quitAt what point did you realize it was time to quit? What are the sure signs it’s time to leave a job?Unsupportive coworkers / boss, when your boss/coworker doesn't like you.When you hate going to work, get the Sunday scaries.When you bring that stress home. You feel unhappy at home because of work. When it impacts your health.Your role no longer supports your long-term career ambitionsYou want to work with a different industryYou want to work with a mentor or a team that can level you upYou just “feel” it’s time for a changeYou found an exciting opportunityCareer or role switchSometimes, you just can’t get the opportunity at your current company.If your dream is to be an Marketing Analytics pro, but your company doesn’t invest in the tools you want to advance your careerHow to quit your jobThis is an unsung part of the process. I think that leaving in a respectful manner is incredibly important, and sometimes it’s hard, especially if you’re emotionally invested in the company (negatively or positively)You can determine exactly how but in my mind, it’s definitely worth tying up loose ends and leaving your company in a good position. Aim to leave the company in a better position than you found it.For example, I left Klipfolio on good terms -- and I didn’t leave because I hated my job. I left because I felt it was time to learn from others and work as a consultant. A few years later, I found myself back with the team in a more senior role. This opportunity wouldn’t happen if you burn bridges.OutroYou heard it here first folks, You can't stay at a job to make others happy, your career is yours to controlLeaving a job isn’t always about leaving a bad workplace or bossSometimes it’s time to move on for your own progressSo what’s your north star? ⭐️✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Hey everyone, today on the show we are joined by Vladlena Mitskaniouk, Director of Digital Marketing at Snyk. Born in Moldova, raised in Ottawa, she’s a communications grad who’s spent her decade plus career carving a craft in digital marketing and marketing analytics.  She got her start at a real estate agency where she learned content marketing before working at MD Financial where she became Digital Marketing Manager and started getting really deep into tracking, analytics, marketing operations and advertising. Vladlena then transitioned to the tech industry where she led a Global marketing analytics and digital marketing team at Trend Micro. She’s now a year into her role as Director of Digital Marketing at Snyk — a security company for cloud native apps on a mission to make the world a safer place with more secure software. Vladlena thanks so much for chatting with us today!Here are the questions we asked Vladlena!Learning about your audienceVladlena, you’ve marketed to consumers in the real estate industry, physicians in the finance industry, Chief information officers in the cybersecurity industry and now developers in the cloud native application industry. Talk to us about your process for learning about your audience and your users when you start a new role?Starting out as a directorTalk us through joining a marketing team at a director level on a remote team. For our listeners, what does that process look like and what are the first 90 days like?BuzzwordsDigital marketing, analytics, operations -- how interchangeable are these to you? What skills are transferable and what skills are net new?Ops and analyticsWhat should all marketers learn about operations and analytics?Demand for technical marketersIMO - The demand for specialized, technical marketers has never been higher. For folks looking to go that path, what advice do you have? How do you get the skills required?Roles at SnykTalk to us about some of the open role(s) on your team, I counted 10 open reqs in the marketing department at Snyk! Continuous learningA quick look at your goodreads profile shows your love of non fiction books (The Signal and the Noise: Why So Many Predictions Fail—But Some Don't and Standard Deviations: Flawed Assumptions, Tortured Data, and Other Ways to Lie with Statistics) -- You recently posted about being one of the first LinkedIn Ads certified--what’s the value of certifications from your perspective and maybe talk about how you handle continuous education?Last questionWe always end by asking our guests what tips they have for maintaining a healthy and balanced life?--Vladlena on LinkedIn and twitter.Snyk's site and open jobs.✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

She’s a product of Dalhousie University where she studied Commerce with a major in Marketing Management and completed 3 Coop work terms: first with Excel HR, Syntax strategic and finally Canada Post. Those internships landed her a marketing strategist position at Versature, now net2phone Canada, a local cloud business phone service provider.She’s spent almost 3 years there and has been through a big acquisition. She’ll probably agree that in her time there one of her biggest projects was a big re-branding to net2phone. Danica was promoted last year to Marketing Automation manager where she holds the keys to Salesforce Pardot, one of the biggest marketing automation platforms on the market. She’s certified by SEMRush, Hubspot and Google and she’s also a lights-out brilliant copywriter. Danica, thanks for logging out of pardot for a bit and chatting with us!Here are the questions we asked Danica: Marketers like to make fun of formal business degrees because of how far removed they are from the practical world? What are things that can be self taught that were useful in your first role that you didn’t learn in your degree? What are things you are super thankful you picked up? Walk us through a day in the life, what’s your typical schedule look like? What are some of your favorite projects so far? What advice do you have for marketers looking to transition into marketing automation? How have you invested in your personal development? What do you wish you had known before starting a career in marketing? You joined your company in an entry level role and last year you were promoted to MA manager. Walk us through things you think helped you get promoted and gain trust among your peers?  We always end by asking our guests what ti-s they have for maintaining a healthy and balanced life?--Follow Danica on LinkedInnet2phone Canada✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

The marketing landscape is vast, the landscape of doom has as many vendors as their are stars in our galaxy. The T-shaped marketer model is good for folks early in their career — perhaps. I think it’s too regimented, formulaic, and encourages marketers all to acquire the same set of skills — albeit with your own unique depth. I propose a marketing constellation. Bare with me. Like our ancestors staring up the night’s sky, you can use your imagination to come up with your own constellation. Maybe your skillset is an archer or a bull or maybe it’s a lion. Maybe depending on the season of your career, you have a different perspective. So what is the T-Shaped model?Horizontal line at the top - those are your skills. Vertical line that extends down from categories at the top — that’s your depth of skill.  I first learned of the T-shape model from an article Brian Balfour wrote in 2014 where he describes a learning path for growth marketers and encourages them to see career progression shaped like a T with 3 levels. Base knowledge: non-marketing specific, a base layer to build from, think behavioral psychology, analytics, positioning, design and ux, storytelling, research…  Marketing foundation: marketing specific concepts that are used across channels, think experimentation, graphic design, copywriting, funnel marketing, HTML, customer experience. Channel expertise: where most marketers eventually need to make some choices. Channels are ways you can reach an audience. They are ever changing and emerging, think FB ads, social, Seo, content, email, partnerships, product marketing... So the recommendation is that you get as much breadth in the first two levels as possible to get a nice foundation. When it comes to the 3rd level, this is where the vertical bar starts. You still want some kind of baseline across channels, but most marketers eventually become skilled at a smaller number of those channels and a deep expertise means a vertical T. Brian’s model is focused mainly on growth and customer acquisition. Marketing isn’t just about reaching your audiences so to apply this to a more general marketing path, Buffer took a stab at it too. Where is the model useful? I find it super useful when discussing hires with non-marketing folks — explaining that this is the general skills I’m looking for in a new candidate. So why does JT get cranky about it? It pigeon holes marketers and over simplifies skillsets. It represents regimented thinking and I don’t like that. I think it’s an outdated model that doesn’t exactly benefit marketers. I admit, part of this is I can’t put my finger on it.  I’m actually a fan of the t-shape if presented in the right light.  But I do admit it’s a very simplified version of your potential areas of focus. What I like about the model is that it encourages early marketers to get a solid foundation and base knowledge before necessarily worrying about specializing in a channel. What does it mean to be a t-shaped marketer? It means they have a solid foundation of concepts and channels but they are experts in one or a few channels. But it doesn’t mean you need to strive for a T. You can be a Y or a W or an M. you’re career could take you in many different paths.Okay so why a marketing constellation? Because you can’t be grouchy and complain about something without suggesting an alternative! It’s an understanding that — like the stars in the night sky — the potential skills you can acquire are varied and spread out. It requires imagination and storytelling to weave those skills together to create a representation of your skills. I also think it’s more likely to represent the potential depth and specialization of each area. Marketing automation isn’t just one skill. It could be: LifecycleLead scoringProject managementLead managementEmail operations and deliverabilityTechnical integrationsAnd you may be more skilled in one area of operations than another. ✌️--Intro music by Wowa via UnminusCover art created with help via Undraw

Today we are joined by Roxanne Pepin, she’s currently based out of Spain but works for Rewind-- an Ottawa based startup as a Revenue Operations Specialist. She manages all the tech that powers Rewind’s sales, marketing and success teams. Before carving a niche in operations, Roxanne wore many digital marketing hats working for an SEO agency then a tech company. She’s actually a computer science drop out turned writing grad where she also spent time in content marketing. More than just a fixer or a troubleshooter, she’s a convergent thinker. Roxanne is described by her peers as a poised and knowledgeable Salesforce admin and a Hubspot platform whiz with a knack for bridging departments together. Her journey growing into a role at one of the coolest companies in Ottawa is deeply rooted in mastery and pragmatic problem solving. Roxanne, we’re pumped to finally have you on -- thanks for taking the time and chatting with us. Is being a digital nomad really as good as it looks? Yes, maybe even better. lolRemote commsYou’re servicing a team of what 40+ marketing and sales teammates? How do you effectively communicate and collaborate with your team remotely from your spain office? Honestly, a lot of my role is answering emails and messages, but I find that being six hours ahead and having my mornings free because my team isn’t online yet allows me to hunker down without distractions and get stuff done. Then when people start to come online I have time to focus on them, hop on calls or zoom meetings, and dedicate that time to them. Everyone knows my schedule, they know that I’m only online until noon their time so they book meetings or slack message me during that time. As long as we communicate our schedules everything works. I try to both remain flexible if there’s something that needs to be done, but also stick to my working hours so that I don’t just have my face buried in my computer at all hours. It helps to have people on your team that you trust to do a good job and that you can direct others towards as well. How to say noOne of my favorite quotes from a presentation you gave to my students this year while describing your role and journey was:“everything is doable, but it doesn’t mean you should do it” lolMaybe walk us through some of the stories behind that mantra and why it might be helpful for other marketers when it comes to prioritization and concentration.Honestly, I’ve seen too many intermediary platform connections fail. I try to weigh how valuable an automation or a connection will be against how many connections and tools it requires. If you’re trying to eliminate three clicks from a process but I need to connect four different platforms to make that happen, I’ll likely say no because the odds of one of those connections failing is high and then we need to do damage control which will take a lot more time than your three clicks, you know? One thing that I’ve also learned is that everyone thinks everything they ask for is super important. And sometimes these things are only very important until they forget about them two days later. I once spent a few days connecting things and configuring things, working with a platform’s support team to get a couple reports combined that came from different sources that had very different ways of presenting data because it was vital that we combined these two numbers, but then when it was all said and done, no one cared or used the new report. Sometimes if I’m questioning the importance of someone’s ask, I like to let it stew for a couple of days just to determine if it’s really as important now as it was two days ago.I’ve also come across some things where it was like… “hey can do you automate this repetitive task” OR “can you set up a notification for this thing that happens a lot, I need to know when it happens”. Then a few weeks later I get the “hey, can you turn this off, it’s really annoying” message. TrainingAs someone who works in Ops, you don’t always get the chance to play on the front lines and do customer facing stuff. You often need to also focus on your teammates.Walk us through how big of a role training and facilitation comes into play in your day to day?Honestly, it’s in my best interest to make sure my team knows how to use the tools at their disposal. What good is it to me to set up processes and tools if people don’t know how to use them? Then we end up paying for things we don’t need. The other thing is that a big part of ops is to make things as efficient as possible for those customer-facing teams. In the end if I make their jobs easier, they can do more of what they’re meant to do and that leads to more revenue and more growth which is the goal we’re all working towards. No barriers Something I struggled with when I was in an Ops role was that I didn’t always get to pick projects, I didn’t always get a say in strategy. So if you could remove all barriers and constraints, what project or idea would you love to tackle or be known for solving.I love implementation projects. I like new tools and I like setting them up. Which is again another area where I feel like I got super lucky. At the time that I was brought on to the team at Rewind we were looking to implement Hubspot -- admittedly this is part of the reason I was hired -- so I got to spearhead that project and set up our platform from scratch. Now that we’re growing and in need of a better sales tool I’m leading a Salesforce implementation project. In the past I’ve been handed over both of these platforms and have had to learn what the heck people did, whether it was done right, how to fix the things that weren’t -- and trust me there were a lot of those. So I really like being part of the entire planning and implementation from the start. Advice for your past self - What skills would you focus on early in your career?Well.. I learnt pretty much everything I know through doing. I didn’t have marketing training, didn’t have sales or support experience. I went to school for writing and ended up in marketing. So I do think it would have helped to learn more about those aspects right from the start. But honestly, I’ve always been a curious person, my mother will reassure you of that. So I don’t really have any regrets or times where I’ve thought “damn, I wish I’d focused on that earlier” because in the end I may not have ended up where I am and I am so so happy to be here. Maybe some advice for my past self would be to stop doubting myself. We often hear: “fake it ‘till you make it” but I like to think of it more as of “be confident that you can learn what you need to as you go”. But be honest and upfront about what you know while reassuring yourself and people around you that you aren’t afraid or willing to really dive in get shit done. Why Ops?We can dive into some of these roles a bit closer but I wanted to start by getting your take on why you gravitate towards Ops? This is always a funny question for me, because I didn’t really ever think about ending up in an ops role. I kind of just started in a specific role, content writing, then broadened my role when I went in-house as a marketing generalist. 

What’s up everyone, this is part 2 of our two part episode on email deliverability and getting into the primary tab in Gmail.If you haven’t yet, start with last week’s episode where we covered 2 crucial classification factors according to Google. The content in your email and how users interact with your emails. Here’s today’s main takeaway: Most email marketers understand that email domain and IP reputation play a critical role in your ability to land in the inbox. But most email marketers will admit they are easily spooked by all the accompanying fancy authentication acronyms. SPF, DKIM, DMARC, they just mean allowing Gmail and other email clients to verify you as the sender. We’ll break those and many more email deliverability tips right now.Today’s episode will cover things you can do that would help with other email clients, not just Gmail. We’ll cover sender reputation, authentication as well as tactics in your automation tool to improve deliverability. 3. Sender repWe know for sure that factors that influence the spam folder are also factors in the inbox vs promos tab, that’s who the email is from. There’s an IP behind the sender, but there’s a domain behind the IP.Domain reputation vs sender ip reputation. There’s two main types of email reputation that can affect your sending: 1) IP Reputation and 2) Domain Reputation. Both reputation scores are calculated separately but as you’ll see as we unpack things, both scores are closely related as your sending ip is mapped to your domain.Mailgun has a dope article on this https://www.mailgun.com/blog/domain-ip-reputation-gmail-care-more-about/ Mailgun claims that things like domain age, how the domain identifies across the web and whether it identifies with entertainment, advertising or finance industries can all impact your domain reputation. They believe domain reputation ultimately matters more to Google.Other suspected factors by rejoiner.comDomain reputation / Past behavior of the senderIf you’ve been sending heaving promo/spam offers through email to hundreds of thousands of people for x years, you’re bound to have a mountain of recipients that marked you as spam. So just because a subscriber is new, it doesn’t mean you start fresh. A lot of senders actually have a ton of baggage from previous sends. Google is quite clear about this: When messages from your domain are reported as spam, future messages are more likely to be delivered to the spam folder. Over time, many spam reports can lower your domain’s reputation.Gmail best practicesGoogle provides a list of best practices for sending to gmail users, it’s not overly helpful but it has some valuable tips. Aside from the obvious, don’t impersonate another company, don’t test phishing scams and make sure your domain is marked as safe, here’s 3 things Google recommends:Authentication: Allow Gmail to verify the sender by setting up reverse DNS (domain name). This means pointing your email sending IP addresses to your company domain. Small number of sending IPs: Google recommends you stick to just 1 sending IP. They add that if you must send from multiple IPs, use different IP addresses for different types of messages. Ie; one IP for blog, subscriber emails, one for important product updates, one for upsell and promo. I often hear email marketers say that if you are getting stuck in the promo tab, just start a fresh new sending IP. The problem there is that this is a short term benefit. If you don’t make changes to your domain, that new IP is still authenticated to the same source with the same baggage. I have heard anecdotely that using separate sending IPs for customers vs leads greatly helps. But I know companies that don’t use this well and still have solid metrics. Different senders: Along the same lines, Google encourages you to use a different ‘from sender’s for different types of emails and that you don't mix different types of content in the same emails. Ie, your purchase confirmation/new customer onboarding flow should be sent by jon@company.com and never include subscriber or promotional content. Your promotional emails should be sent from phil@company.com. So stick to as little sending IPs as possible, but switch up your sender for different types of emails. Domain authenticationThere’s different ways of setting up authentication for your sending IPs with Gmail. The process will be slightly different depending on your hosting provider and your ESP. There’s currently 3 main authentication methods to prevent email spoofing; aka spammers from sending emails that appear to be from your domain:SPF record (sender policy framework)DKIM keys (DomainKeys Identified Mail) DMARC record (Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Conformance)SPFPublish an SPF record for your domain. AKA Pointer (PTR) record. Every SPF has a single TXT file that specifies servers and domains that are allowed to send on behalf of your domain. You do this by uploading your updated TXT file on your domain provider settings. DKIMTurn on DKIM signing for your messages. DKIM lets a company take ownership of an email. This is why the reputation of your company domain (not your sending IP) is the basis for evaluating whether to trust the message for further handling, such as delivery. DKIM uses a pair of cryptographic keys, one private and one public. A private key aka the secret signature is added to the header of all your emails. A matching public key is added to your DNS record. Email servers that receive your messages use the public key to decrypt the private key in your signature. That’s how they verify the message was not changed after it was sent.Google has a simple guide for doing this, you start by generating a key for your domain, and just like your SPF record, you add the key to your domain's DNS records.DMARCPublish a DMARC record for your domain. DMARC is used in combo with SPF and DKIM, should be setup after. Specifically helps you prevent spoofing, aka a message that appears to be from your company but is not. It checks whether the From: header matches the sending domain in your SPF/DKIM check. Once you start sending after DMARC is setup, you can start to access reports from email servers...