C.O.B. Tuesday

Veriten
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Jun 25, 2025 • 59min

"It’s Safer To Work In A U.S. Coal Mine Than To Work In A Shopping Mall Or Supermarket" Featuring Jim Grech, Peabody

Today we had the very exciting and interesting opportunity to visit with Jim Grech, President and CEO of Peabody. Jim was appointed as CEO in June 2021 and brings more than 30 years of experience across the coal and natural resources space. His career includes leadership roles as CEO of Wolverine Fuels, President of Nexus Gas Transmission, EVP and CCO of CONSOL Energy, and Vice President of DTE Energy. Peabody, founded in 1883, is one of the leading coal producers in the U.S., operating 17 surface and underground mines across the U.S. and Australia. We were thrilled to hear Jim’s perspective on the evolving role of coal in both the U.S. and global energy markets. In our conversation, Jim shares background on his decision to join Peabody during a period of financial and market uncertainty and outlines the company’s progress in recent years, including repayment of $1.5B in secured debt, reinstatement of a dividend and stock buyback program, and reinvestment in U.S. and Australian assets. We discuss how to motivate a coal workforce amid global anti-coal sentiment, Peabody’s asset footprint, the strategic importance of the Powder River Basin (PRB) and the untapped potential to export PRB coal to Asia, the advantages of U.S. coal relative to coal in other parts of the world, and the vast abundance of U.S. coal, with U.S. coal reserves containing more energy than any other nation holds in any single energy resource. We explore the distinctions between thermal and metallurgical coal, global coal demand and outlook, the longevity of coal infrastructure with new plants expected to operate for 30-50 years, the improved environmental footprint of modern coal plants and outdated misconceptions, coal’s role in poverty reduction and economic growth in developing nations, and the push to codify U.S. regulatory changes into legislation for permanence beyond changing administrations. Jim shares his perspective on coal’s role in grid stability and delivering lower, more stable electricity prices, state-level legislative trends supporting reliability requirements for coal plants, the current status and underutilization of the U.S. coal fleet, and renewed interest from industrial users and datacenters seeking long-term, dependable power sources. We examine investor trends including the emerging investor focus on international coal markets, international market dynamics and growth opportunities across metallurgical and thermal coal, and much more. We close by asking Jim for his top takeaway, and he highlights the importance of being open-minded about coal’s net benefits, particularly regarding its role in global energy access, industrial development, and improving standards of living. It was our pleasure to host Jim and we greatly enjoyed the discussion. Mike Bradley opened the discussion by noting that bond, commodity and equity markets have largely roundtripped to their June 12th closing levels (prior to the Israeli strike on Iran). From a bond market perspective, the 10-year bond yield (~4.3%) has essentially roundtripped and traders are now focused on upcoming economic data. In crude markets, WTI spiked to a high of ~$78.50/bbl on Monday following the U.S. strike over the weekend of Iranian nuclear sites, but has since pulled back to ~$65/bbl amid reports of a “proposed” Iranian/Israeli ceasefire, which is ~$3/bbl lower than June 12th price levels and ~$5/bbl above June trading lows. From an Energy equity standpoint, Energy has also roundtripped and is now trading modestly below (~2%) June 12th levels as energy investors begin refocusing their attention on the 2H’25/1H’26 global oil surplus. From a broader market standpoint, the S&P 500 is now ~0.5% higher than June 12th levels and within 1% of all-time highs. Broader markets are now in the process of transitioning away from Mideast conflict back towards U.S. domestic policy. Mike concluded by noting that investors are beginning to refocus on the odds of Trump’
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Jun 18, 2025 • 1h 6min

"The NRC Is The Gold Standard Of Regulation" Featuring Patrick White, CATF and Nicholas McMurray, ClearPath

Today we’re excited to welcome Patrick White, Group Lead for Fusion Energy Safety and Regulation at the Clean Air Task Force (CATF), and Nicholas McMurray, Managing Director of International and Nuclear Policy at ClearPath. Patrick recently joined CATF and leads the organization’s international working group focused on fusion energy safety, waste, and non-proliferation. He holds a Ph.D. in Nuclear Science and Engineering from MIT and previously served as Research Director at the Nuclear Innovation Alliance. Niko is an expert in industrial policy, nuclear energy policy, and regulation. He has been with ClearPath since 2019 and formerly served as a Materials Engineer at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). A few weeks ago, Veriten partnered with CATF and ClearPath to publish a paper calling out reforms to NRC processes and procedures to accelerate the deployment of new nuclear reactors; establishing a more efficient regulatory framework for new and advanced reactors (paper linked here). We were thrilled to host Patrick and Niko for a discussion on the paper and broader trends in the nuclear landscape. Brett Rampal, Senior Director of Nuclear and Power Strategy at Veriten, joined for the conversation and led Veriten’s contribution to the paper. In our discussion, Patrick and Niko share background on their organizations’ missions and long-standing support for nuclear. We explore the need to demystify and modernize NRC processes to accommodate next-generation nuclear technologies, challenges with current regulatory frameworks originally designed for traditional large light-water reactors, the role of licensing structures and the value of more flexible licensing pathways, and the motivation behind their recent paper, which aims to provide actionable, bipartisan policy suggestions to enable nuclear deployment at scale. We examine the historical development and regulatory evolution of power versus non-power reactor definitions, how those distinctions have blurred over time, the shift toward performance-based regulation, and the commercial implications of licensing small reactors under Class 103. We discuss the importance of consistent terminology and regulatory clarity in advancing new nuclear technologies, whether the NRC’s internal culture can evolve to support faster deployment without compromising safety, the NRC’s broader oversight role beyond reactors including medical and industrial applications of radioactive materials, and congressional support for NRC modernization. Patrick and Niko provide insights into international regulatory approaches, such as performance-based models used in the UK, France, and Canada, the critical need to earn public trust through rigorous and efficient safety regulation, the feasibility of President Trump’s goal of having 10 new reactors under construction by 2030, challenges beyond regulation, and much more. We greatly enjoyed the conversation. To start the show, Mike Bradley noted that the S&P 500 closed modestly lower on the day, while crude oil prices caught a bid amid escalating tensions in the Mideast. On the bond front, the 10-year bond yield (~4.4%) has pulled back over the last few days as markets await the outcome of the June 18th FOMC rate decision meeting. Consensus is for no change in interest rates at this FOMC meeting, but a cut is expected at the September meeting. From a crude oil market standpoint, WTI price has spiked by >$10/bbl to ~$74/bbl over the last five trading days due to the Iranian-Israeli military conflict. While Veriten isn’t in the business of making short-term crude oil price calls based on supply disruption threats, we continue to emphasize that global oil demand growth projections are a more vital determinant for intermediate-term oil prices. On the global S/D front, the IEA recently modeled global oil demand peaking in 2029 (China in 2027), contra
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7 snips
Jun 11, 2025 • 58min

"The Senate Has The Ability To Think About Things In A More Rational Way" With Dr. Ken Medlock, Baker Institute

Dr. Ken Medlock, a leading expert in energy policy from Rice University’s Baker Institute, shares his insights on critical energy issues. He discusses the complexities of oil market dynamics, touching on U.S. production forecasts and Middle Eastern strategies, particularly Kuwait's expansion plans. The conversation dives into the challenges and future potential of carbon capture technology. Medlock also emphasizes the importance of diverse energy strategies amidst shifting U.S. policies and geopolitical tensions influencing global energy markets.
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8 snips
Jun 4, 2025 • 1h 2min

"Durability Is The Coin Of The Realm" Featuring Mike Sommers, American Petroleum Institute

Mike Sommers, President and CEO of the American Petroleum Institute, draws on his extensive experience to discuss the evolving landscape of energy policy. He highlights natural gas's transformation from a waste product to an essential 'forever fuel.' The conversation delves into the urgent need for streamlined energy infrastructure permitting and the impact of the Supreme Court's recent rulings. Additionally, they tackle the challenges of workforce training in the oil and gas sector and the significance of domestic energy policies for national security.
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May 28, 2025 • 1h 2min

"It’s Probably Time For A DOGE Approach To California Government" With Michael Mische, USC School of Business

Today we had the pleasure of hosting Michael Mische, Associate Professor of Management at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business. Michael joined the USC faculty in 1997 and also serves as CEO and a Managing Member of the Synergy Consulting Group. At Marshall, he leads and coordinates the school’s undergraduate and graduate curricula in management consulting. Our interest in connecting with Michael was sparked by his recent report, “A Study of California Gasoline Prices” (linked here). The study presents a comprehensive, data-driven analysis of the persistently high retail gasoline prices in California. We were thrilled to explore the findings of the report and hear Michael’s broader perspective on California’s energy and power landscape. In our discussion, we cover the main themes of Michael’s report, beginning with his long-standing interest in the oil and gas industry dating back to the 1973 Arab oil embargo. We explore the study’s key finding that there is no evidence of price manipulation or gouging by refiners, and Michael’s conclusion that California’s high gasoline prices are a direct result of deliberate policy choices. Michael explains why policymakers pursue these strategies, why Californians tolerate higher energy costs, and how these policies create economic strain for lower income residents. We cover the broader economic impact of California energy policies, including the departure of more than 360 major companies since 2018, the national security risks posed by refinery closures that supply a significant share of aviation fuel and diesel to military operations in California, Arizona, and Nevada, how the push for renewable energy has become a primary driver of rising energy costs, and the underlying economics of the refining industry. We discuss the broader effects of refinery shutdowns on infrastructure like roads and airports, California’s increasing dependence on foreign oil, the potential for in-state production growth, proposed policy solutions, the risks of state-run refinery models, how Middle Eastern investors are increasingly targeting U.S. real assets and innovation sectors, and more. We greatly appreciate Michael joining and sharing his expertise and insights with us all. Mike Bradley kicked off the discussion by noting that broader U.S. equities surged ~2.0% on Tuesday, largely driven by news that President Trump would be extending the deadline on EU tariff increases from June 1 to July 9. Equity markets also rose due to the unexpectedly high m/m increase in May Consumer Confidence. On the bond market front, 10-year and 30-year U.S. bond yields traded lower by 8-10bps, mostly due to a plunge in Japanese bond yields despite optimistic news on the EU tariff front and Consumer Confidence. In commodities, WTI price pulled back ~$1/bbl (~$61/bbl) on growing concern that OPEC+ will raise July oil production by another ~0.4mmbpd. Iranian nuclear talks underway in Rome have sparked cautious optimism for a breakthrough, which might prove to be another “marginal” headwind for crude prices. On the U.S. policy front, Mike highlighted last week’s passage of a House Tax Bill which surprisingly gutted renewable/solar subsidies and sent solar equities plunging. Passage through the Senate isn’t guaranteed and could potentially extend/reverse the timeline on some of the solar subsidies. On the electricity front, it was a great week for nuclear and SMR equities (handful of SMR equities up ~40%) following four nuclear-focused Executive Orders from the Trump Administration. He also pointed out the recent eye-popping MISO Summer Capacity Auction (~$666/mw) versus last year’s auction price (~$30/mw) which will lead to much higher utility bills. He closed by highlighting California’s current refinery capacity of ~1.6mmbpd and how the two most recent refinery closure announcements (tota
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May 21, 2025 • 1h 4min

"Reserves Are Not Geopolitically Risk Free Anymore" Featuring Daan Struyven & Lina Thomas, Goldman Sachs

Today we had a fantastic conversation with Daan Struyven, Co-Head of Global Commodities Research and Managing Director, Head of Oil Research, alongside his colleague Lina Thomas, Commodities Strategist, with Goldman Sachs. Daan joined Goldman in 2015 and previously co-led the Goldman Global Economics team as well as the firm’s Canada Economics research effort. He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from MIT. Lina joined Goldman after earning her Ph.D. in Economics from Harvard, where she focused on safe-haven assets. We were thrilled to welcome these Ph.D. powerhouses for a deep dive into a topic we haven’t yet explored on COBT – the gold markets and how they intersect with oil, gas, copper, interest rates, tariffs, geopolitics, central banks, structural market changes, and more. In our discussion, Lina provides a detailed overview of the historical inverse relationship between gold and interest rates, and highlights the unusual strength of the gold rally that began in 2022. She describes that the rally was triggered by the freezing of Russian central bank assets in February 2022, which prompted central banks, particularly those geopolitically aligned or close to Russia, to increase gold purchases to reduce reliance on politically vulnerable reserve assets. Lina explains that in addition to modest investor inflows, ongoing central bank demand has played a critical role in sustaining gold’s price rise and discusses how geopolitical proximity is a key predictor of central bank gold buying. We explore Goldman’s approach to estimating actual central bank purchases, which are underreported in official data, Russia’s gathering of gold reserves ahead of its invasion of Ukraine, the effects of the war and subsequent sanctions, and how Russia rerouted its gold exports similar to its post-sanction oil trade. Daan outlines Goldman’s copper market outlook, including their view on proposed copper tariffs, the anticipated supply deficit by 2026 due to limited investment in new projects, their copper price forecast, and the key short-term drivers influencing copper prices. We cover gold’s unique role as a stock rather than a flow asset, with only about one percent of tradable gold coming from annual mine supply, why central banks favor gold over silver, Goldman’s four structural investment themes (Dollar Diversification, Defense Spending, Disinvestment in Supply, and De-risking Energy Systems), the firm’s crude oil outlook over the next year, and much more. We greatly appreciate Daan and Lina for sharing their time and perspectives. Mike Bradley opened the discussion by noting that “Trumpatility” has faded considerably, with the S&P 500 Volatility Index now trading near year-to-date lows. Ironically, this introduces some degree of risk as broader markets are now technically overbought. Moody’s downgraded U.S. debt by one notch this past week but U.S. bonds and equities shrugged it off, mostly because U.S. bonds don’t typically move on ratings changes, but more so on inflation and employment growth, while broader equities are driven mostly by forward earnings estimates. The U.S. dollar weakened slightly on the U.S. debt downgrade while Bitcoin and gold prices are trading near all-time highs, likely a reflection of growing U.S. debt levels. He wrapped up with a roundup of notable Energy & Electricity headlines, including: Blackstone Infrastructure’s $11.5 billion acquisition of TXNM Energy; Strathcona Resource’s $6 billion takeover offer for MEG Energy; Phillips 66’s Proxy vote battle with Elliott (involving four board nominations); Trump’s unexpected reversal of his recent shutdown of Equinor’s Empire Wind 1 project off Long Island; and the recent decline in Permian oil rig count and the potential associated gas growth implications. Jeff Tillery also joined and peppered in his thoughts to the discussion. We hope you find today’s discussion as insightful and interesting as we did. Our best to you all!
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May 14, 2025 • 52min

"Energy Is An Instrument And An Objective Of Geopolitical Tensions" Featuring Dr. Francesco Sassi, University of Oslo

Dr. Francesco Sassi, a Postdoctoral Fellow at the University of Oslo and expert in energy geopolitics, shares compelling insights on the intricate interplay between energy and global politics. He discusses the rising political risks in energy markets and China's growing influence. The conversation highlights Spain's leadership in clean energy, the dynamics of OPEC+, and the implications of the Russia-Ukraine war. Sassi also explores how energy strategies are intertwined with diplomacy, revealing how these elements shape international relations amidst ongoing tensions.
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May 7, 2025 • 1h 4min

"Our Stockpiles Were Worth $50 Billion… Today, They’re Worth $800 Million" Featuring Ashley Zumwalt-Forbes, Fmr U.S. DOE

Today we were thrilled to welcome our good friend Ashley Zumwalt-Forbes, former Deputy Director for Batteries and Critical Materials at the U.S. Department of Energy, to our offices in Houston. Ashley brings more than a decade of experience in acquiring, financing, and developing greenfield and brownfield mining projects, with deep expertise across the global mining supply chain. She served in the Biden Administration from January 2024 to January 2025, overseeing deployment of capital and tax incentives into the U.S. battery supply chain. Prior to her government service, Ashley was Co-Founder and President of Black Mountain Metals and Black Mountain Exploration. We were delighted to host Ashley for a timely and insightful conversation on the state of the global metals and minerals landscape. In our discussion, we explore the bipartisan consensus on reducing U.S. dependence on foreign-sourced metals and minerals, particularly from China. Ashley shares her experience at the DOE and her goal to buy down demand risk to attract private capital, especially for large-scale processing infrastructure. We discuss the surge of investment and momentum in lithium brine projects in the U.S. along with efforts to accelerate domestic mining, including the Trump Administration’s move to expedite permits for 20 projects. Ashley outlines the tension between the desire to onshore more production and the current lack of downstream markets outside China, which remains a bottleneck for full supply chain development in the U.S. She shares innovative developments in processing methods, including China’s nickel conversion efforts in Indonesia, the potential for copper to be codified as a critical mineral in upcoming legislation, and why permitting reform and seabed mining are bandaids for the larger challenge of unit economics in the U.S. Ashley further explains the difficulty in making margins at each U.S. supply chain stage, especially when compared to China’s vertically integrated structure and non-profit-driven strategy, the benefits of targeted tariffs to protect nascent U.S. industries, and the lack of U.S. processing as the true choke point. She highlights the decline of U.S. stockpiles from Cold War levels to today, how the materials once stockpiled fueled the Allied victory in WWII, the depleted reserves in the U.S. today, the complexities involved in the U.S. minerals agreement with Ukraine, challenges in raising capital for mining projects, and the limited investor base. We also examine how structured government support will be essential for the U.S. to be competitive, Ashley’s next steps in her pursuit of sourcing and supporting “weird and wonderful” mining transactions, and more. As you will hear, Ashley offers a unique mix of policy insight, deep market understanding, and a genuine passion for rebuilding the U.S. industrial base. We’re thankful for her time and insights. Mike Bradley opened the discussion by noting that broader markets were down marginally for the day and that “Trumpatility” appears to be temporarily subsiding. He highlighted a handful of notable developments in energy markets over the past week, first being OPEC+ agreeing to another ~400kbpd increase in June oil production in addition to the ~400kbpd production increase in May, both of which are being done into an oversupplied global oil market. Saudi seems to be the main driver of the OPEC+ increases and offered several reasons for their actions at this juncture. The second development relates to a big change in E&P mindset that’s occurred over the last couple of weeks at these lower oil price levels (high $50s/low $60s). A handful of E&Ps recently announced cuts to their 2025 capital programs (CTRA, EOG & FANG) and others are fully expected to announce cuts this week and next. The final development was Diamondback Energy’s recent Letter to Stockholders (linked
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Apr 30, 2025 • 54min

"The Termites Are Out There Under Your Porch" Featuring the Bipartisan Policy Center

Today we were delighted to host the team from the Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC), a leading Washington NGO dedicated to bringing stakeholders together to address critical policy issues for the U.S. and find areas of alignment for action. Joining us for the session are Margaret Spellings, President and CEO, along with her colleagues David Hill, Executive Vice President of Energy, and Bill Hoagland, Senior Vice President. Margaret became CEO of BPC in 2023 and brings extensive leadership experience at both the state and federal levels, most recently serving as President & CEO of Texas 2036. Earlier in her career, Margaret served as White House Chief Domestic Policy Advisor, Senior Policy Advisor and Secretary of Education under George W. Bush. David has more than 25 years of energy experience, having served as General Counsel of the U.S. DOE and as DOE’s Deputy General Counsel for Energy Policy during the Bush administration, as well as Executive Vice President and General Counsel of NRG. Bill focuses on fiscal, health, and economic policy at BPC, following a long tenure on the U.S. Senate Staff and as VP of Public Policy at CIGNA Healthcare before joining BPC in 2012. We were thrilled to visit with Margaret, David, and Bill for their latest insights from Washington. In our conversation, Margaret first outlines the BPC’s team structure and its dual focus on research and advocacy through bipartisan engagement on Capitol Hill. We discuss setbacks in U.S. education policy, including how 20 years of bipartisan federal accountability progress under Presidents Bush and Obama have been undone in recent years, highlighting the need to refocus on reading and evidence-based instruction. Bill provides an overview of the U.S. national debt, noting that politically untouchable programs dominate the budget and leave little room for meaningful reform. He flags that interest payments on the debt now exceed defense spending and describes the slow-building debt and energy crises as “termites under the porch,” noting that Washington only acts under strong leadership or in response to crisis. David shares his perspective on the need for durable, stable energy policy and the importance of long-term policy certainty to encourage private sector investment in infrastructure. We explore BPC’s efforts to modernize education and workforce policy to reflect today’s labor market, how private conversations often reveal more bipartisan consensus than public discourse suggests, and how BPC facilitates those critical dialogues. We also touch on the disconnect between Washington and the rest of the nation, the need to clearly communicate how policy failures impact everyday Americans, the challenges posed by outdated government technology, and much more. Thank you, Margaret, David, and Bill, for sharing your insights and expertise with us all! Mike Bradley kicked us off with a few updates focused on Trump’s first 100 days, Canadian election results, and the recent Spain/Portugal power outage. The best word to describe Trump’s first 100 days would be volatility, or as we have aptly named it, Trumpatility! The 10yr bond yield has fallen ~40bps (to 4.2%) over this timeframe and the U.S. dollar has depreciated by ~6%. Two commodity standouts are WTI price, which has plunged ~$15/bbl to ~$61/bbl, and gold, up ~22% to ~$3,300/oz. From a broader equity standpoint, the S&P 500 was down ~8%, Nasdaq down ~10% and Russell 2000 down ~14%. The S&P 500 Volatility Index spiked by ~50% (and ~275% at its April 7th volatility peak). The Energy sector was down ~11% with Oil Services down ~28%, E&Ps down ~21%, Refiners down ~15%, U.S. Oil Majors down ~10%, Midstream down ~5% and Alternative Energy up ~5%. Electric Utilities were up ~2% while IPPs/Power Index was down ~18%. Regarding the Canadian election, Mark Carney’s Liberal Party eked out a narrow win Monday night against Poilievre’s Conservative Party but fell short of a majority in t
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Apr 29, 2025 • 59min

"You Have To Earn It Every Day" Featuring Mark Lashier, Phillips 66

Today we had the distinct pleasure of hosting Mark Lashier, Chairman and CEO of Phillips 66. Mark joined Phillips 66 as President and COO in 2021 and assumed the CEO role in July 2022. Prior to that, he served as the President and CEO of Chevron Phillips Chemical Company (CPChem), where he held several senior leadership roles, including Executive Vice President of Olefins and Polyolefins, Senior Vice President of Specialties, Aromatics and Styrenics, and Vice President of Corporate Planning and Development. Mark began his career at Phillips Petroleum and holds a doctorate in Chemical Engineering. Beyond his leadership at Phillips 66, he serves on the Executive Committee of the American Petroleum Institute and is a Board Member of the Greater Houston Partnership and several other nonprofit organizations. Mike, Arjun and I were thrilled to host Mark for this Special Edition to discuss Phillips 66’s recent performance, his strategic vision for the company, insights into today’s energy landscape, and the ongoing debate with Elliott Management. In our discussion, Mark shares background on his career and transition to CEO, his early priority of addressing improvements in Phillip 66’s refining segment, and the cultural transformation to re-instill pride and competitiveness amongst refiners, which involved engaging employees at all levels and investing in strategic capital projects to fix operational bottlenecks and improve reliability and earnings. We discuss Bob Pease’s addition to the board, who was originally nominated through Elliott’s engagement, and how he shifted from being skeptical to supportive of the company’s strategy, execution, and focus on shareholder returns. We explore the history and structure of CPChem, the benefits of Phillips 66’s integrated business model during times of volatility and potential downturns, and the company’s industry-leading safety performance, which ties safety directly to employee compensation. Mark shares his perspective on why maintaining a diversified portfolio across refining, midstream, and chemicals is strategically and financially advantageous, as well as the optimization and regulatory advantages of an integrated structure. We touch on Phillips 66’s strong ROCE versus peers, activist pressure to sell midstream assets for a higher multiple, growth across their midstream business, and broader global trends toward integration rather than asset breakups. Mark highlights the company’s refining performance improvement, the rationale behind merging PSXP and DCP assets, efforts to attract generalist investors back to the energy sector by demonstrating consistent earnings, Phillips 66’s philosophy of keeping assets “for sale every day” to ensure focus on shareholder value, and much more. We greatly appreciate Mark for sharing his candid insights into a complex and highly public debate. As you will hear, we reference a few items in the discussion. Phillip 66’s Investor Relations presentation entitled “Delivering Value & Demonstrating Commitment,” released Monday, April 28, is linked here. Veriten’s COBT episode featuring Doug Terreson is linked here. Thanks to Mark for joining us for an insightful discussion and thanks to you all for your friendship and support!

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