
Rethinking Education
"Civilisation is a race between education and catastrophe." (HG Wells)
In this podcast, we take Wells at his word. Hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, Rethinking Education features long-form conversations with fascinating guests about how we might create a more diverse, intelligent, responsive educational ecosystem that works for *all* young people.
If this sounds interesting to you, welcome to Rethinking Education: Education's Critical Friend: https://rethinking-ed.org/podcast
Latest episodes

Apr 24, 2025 • 1h 52min
Adolescence, masculinities and… Batman (with Lewis Wedlock)
Lewis Wedlock is an academic, mental health professional and masculinities educator from Bristol, England.
He has spent the last five years working with thousands of young men across the UK in secondary and higher education, engaging them in topics such as feminism, allyship, accountability, sexism, misogyny and VAWG.
He has designed and delivered several interventions for schools looking to transform their masculinity school cultures, and has worked with hundreds of educators to support them in the journey towards supporting and empowering young men within their school spaces.
His debut book “Masculinities in Schools” is due to be published by Sage in June.
LINKS
Lewis’s TEDx talk ‘The crisis of masculinity’ - https://www.ted.com/talks/lewis_wedlock_the_crisis_of_masculinity
Lewis’s book ‘Masculinities in school’ - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/masculinities-in-schools/book291711
Lewis on bringing teachers on the journey towards anti-misogyny work in schools - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7313467595809046529/?originTrackingId=vFhKtaFiTryFt2v9NuWMIA%3D%3D
Lewis on safeguarding women and gender-fluid teachers in conversations relating to anti-misogyny work - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7312383310528143360/?originTrackingId=%2B%2FDoao0qRka%2BXELJ%2BeWPdw%3D%3D
Lewis on why we need to rethink showing Adolescence in schools - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7310952725276446720/?originTrackingId=qEDxB5LuRYqggVUxMjo%2F%2FA%3D%3D
Follow James - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mannion/
Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Mar 20, 2025 • 1h 52min
The 4 nations of the UK: What can we learn from one another?
In this special episode, Dr James Mannion and The Real David Cameron take a look at the education systems in the four nations of the United Kingdom and ask: what can we learn from one another?
Graham Donaldson has been central to development in Scotland as chief inspector, advising government as well as leading on quality assurance. And remarkably he has also been central to the development of Curriculum for Wales in the role of chief adviser to the Welsh Government.
Tony Gallagher, from Queens University Belfast, has made a massive contribution to education in Northern Ireland and internationally. He is best known for his work on education in divided societies, a subject that, sadly, continues to be of vital importance.
Lena Carter is the headteacher of two schools in Scotland, Glassary and Tayvallich, in Argyll and Bute, a challenge that Lena embraces with real energy, passion and a tremendous commitment to meeting every pupil’s needs.
And Lucy Kirkham teaches geography at Bassaleg Comprehensive school near Newport in Wales. Lucy has a considerable track record in Environmental Education and has been a real driving force behind a series of conferences where young people can engage with the climate emergency on their terms.
LINKS
Follow Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/graham-donaldson-b8a9ba43
Follow Lena - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-carter-27748a39/
Follow Lucy - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-kirkham-9b8699279/
Follow Tony - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-gallagher-a845ab9/
Follow David - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-cameron-72061a15/
Follow James - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mannion/

Mar 4, 2025 • 4h 4min
How to make classrooms feel warm and alive, with Hywel Roberts and Tim Taylor
This episode features an astonishing conversation by two remarkable educators, Hywel Roberts and Tim Taylor. Tim kindly stepped in as a guest host for this episode, to explore some of the big ideas that underpin Hywel’s excellent book, Botheredness: Stories, stance, pedagogy.
LINKS
Buy Botheredness - https://www.crownhouse.co.uk/botheredness
Follow Hywel - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hywel-roberts-67ba032b/
Follow Tim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-taylor-50358439/
Outro track: ‘How it is and how it should be’ by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. Drop us a line at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Feb 25, 2025 • 1h 36min
Debra Kidd, Tina Farr and Clare Whyles on how to cultivate hope, joy and belonging
Joining the conversation are Debra Kidd, an author focused on hopeful learning environments, and Clare Whyles, a dedicated deputy head with 25 years at St. Ebbe’s Primary School. They dive into the essential roles of compassion, creativity, and community in education, sharing insights on fostering hope and well-being. The impact of storytelling in engaging students and the need for curricular innovation are also highlighted, alongside personal reflections on collaboration and resilience in schooling. Together, they envision a vibrant and joyful educational landscape.

Jan 17, 2025 • 1h 35min
Introducing our new co-host, (The Real) David Cameron!
Welcome to this episode in which we get to know our new cohost, The Real David Cameron!
David Cameron is an incredible educator, public speaker and human being whose work I have admired for many years now. He has been a teacher, a senior manager in schools and in local authorities, most recently as Director of Children’s Services for Stirling Council. He was President of the Association of Directors of Education Scotland and has been centrally involved in virtually every major development in Scottish education over the last 40 years. More recently he has been an independent speaker and consultant working across the UK and internationally.
LINKS
About David: https://therealdavidcameron.net/about
Buy Unfinished Business: https://amzn.to/49G5Uid
Buy Making Change Stick:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Change-Stick-Implementing-Improvement/dp/1398387487
Subscribe to James’s Substack newsletters (which alternate fortnightly)
Rethinking Education: https://drjamesmannion.substack.com
Making Change Stick: https://makingchangestick.substack.com
Repost about the book launch to be in with a change of winning prizes:
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/rethinkingjames.bsky.social/post/3lffz7ygg722y
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7283574500909088768/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@drjamesmannion/post/DEqIRjlMHEv
X: https://x.com/RethinkingJames/status/1878060170397286715
Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Dec 16, 2024 • 1h 35min
The Unfinished Business of Sir Tim Brighouse - with Mick Waters and David Cameron
In this episode I’m speaking with Mick Waters and David Cameron, two of the editors of a wonderful new book Unfinished Business: The life and legacy of Sir Tim Brighouse - a tribute and a call to action. It’s a long title and rightly so - there’s a lot to say about Tim and about the ideas he pursued throughout his remarkable career.
Mick Waters is a former head teacher who works closely with teachers and leaders in schools, MATs and local authorities to support the development of teaching approaches and curriculum to ensure the best learning outcomes for children. For some years he was Director of Curriculum for England, based at the Qualification and Curriculum Authority (QCA), and before that held the post of Chief Education Officer for the City of Manchester. He is also invited to work at a policy level with government in different parts of the world.
David Cameron has been a teacher, a senior manager in schools and in local authorities, most recently as Director of Children’s Services for Stirling Council. He was President of the Association of Directors of Education Scotland and has been centrally involved in virtually every major development in Scottish education over the last 40 years. More recently he has been an independent speaker and consultant working across the UK and internationally.
LINKS
Buy Unfinished Business: https://amzn.to/49G5Uid
Buy ‘About Our Schools’ https://amzn.to/4ivsKgF
Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Nov 27, 2024 • 1h 52min
“Talking Floats On A Sea Of Write”: Clare Sealy on Oracy and Literacy
Clare Sealy currently works as the Head of Education Improvement for the states of Guernsey. Prior to this, she was the Headteacher of St Matthias Primary School in Tower Hamlets for 22 years. In 2018, the Times Education Supplement named her as one of the 10 most influential people in the world of education. In 2022, Clare was awarded an OBE for services to education.
Oracy – in case you’re unfamiliar with the term – was coined in 1965 to put spoken language firmly on the map, giving it equal status to written literacy and numeracy. Fast forward nearly 60 years, and we’re still having this conversation. Just last month, the Oracy Education Commission published a report suggesting that oracy should be recognised as the ‘fourth R’ – alongside reading, writing, and arithmetic. It’s a sentiment I wholeheartedly support.
These days, oracy is often thought of as having three dimensions: learning to talk, learning through talk, and learning about talk. If that idea intrigues you, the Oracy Cambridge website is full of thought-provoking blogs. Recently, the Oracy Cambridge team published a collective response to the Oracy Education Commission’s report, offering this updated definition: ‘Oracy is the ability to use the skills of speaking, listening, and non-verbal communication for a wide range of purposes.’
Oracy is very much in the spotlight at the moment, especially here in the UK. The Labour government has repeatedly signalled a renewed emphasis on spoken language and communication skills, and we’re already seeing this shift in schools and classrooms. I think it’s an incredibly welcome change – though, as with any policy, not everyone agrees. Clare and I get into some of these differing perspectives in this episode.
Clare and I also discuss a fascinating blog she wrote, titled ‘Talking floats on a sea of write’ – a clever inversion of James Britton’s famous statement that ‘writing floats on a sea of talk’. I found her ideas so compelling that I asked her to join me for this conversation – and, well, here we are!
LINKS
Clare’s article that prompted this discussion: https://hwrkmagazine.co.uk/talking-floats-on-a-sea-of-write/
Clare’s blog: https://primarytimery.com/
Clare on X: https://x.com/claresealy
Oracy Cambridge: https://oracycambridge.org/
Oracy Education COmmission report, We Need To Talk: https://oracyeducationcommission.co.uk/oec-report/
Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Oct 30, 2024 • 1h 11min
Sir Anthony Seldon on oracy, agency and meditation
In this episode, my guest is Sir Anthony Seldon – a figure who truly needs no introduction in education. However, for those less familiar with his remarkable contributions, here’s a bit of context. Anthony has held some of the most influential roles in education, most recently as headmaster of Epsom College. Before this, he served as vice-chancellor of the University of Buckingham and was headmaster at Wellington College and Brighton College – among many other roles.
Beyond his leadership in education, Anthony is a widely published author and renowned biographer, especially of political figures. For over 40 years, he has written extensively about British prime ministers, an 'impossible office,' as he titled one of his books. His most recent book was the number one Sunday Times bestseller, Truss at 10: How Not to Be Prime Minister - a hair raising read if ever there was one. Anthony has written on education as well, including his thought-provoking The Fourth Education Revolution: Will Artificial Intelligence Liberate or Infantilise Humanity?
I recorded this conversation at Epsom College last year, prior to the latest change in government. Fittingly, this was also the day Sir Keir Starmer – then Leader of the Opposition – announced Labour’s intention to prioritise oracy in education, a topic we explore in depth.
Our conversation is wide-ranging and rich with insights: we discuss oracy, why spoken language skills often flourish more in private schools than in state schools, the essential role of agency in education and life, and the transformative impact of meditation – a daily practice that both Anthony and I find invaluable.
LINKS
Anthony on X: https://x.com/anthonyseldon
Truss at 10: https://linktr.ee/trussat10
Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Oct 11, 2024 • 1h 39min
How to change the admissions code, with Curtis James from Class Divide
Welcome to the Rethinking Education podcast!
In this episode I spoke with Curtis James from Class Divide, campaign group which recently ran a successful campaign to change the school admissions code in Brighton and Hove.
But if anyone is looking at their local schools and thinking ‘School X has 15% of pupils eligible for free school meals, and School Y has over 60%. This doesn’t seem right. I wonder if there’s anything we can do to change that?” Well, there is - and in this episode, Curtis will explain how!
LINKS
Class Divide website: https://www.classdivide.co.uk/
Give us a (lovely!) review: https://www.tinyurl.com/raterepod
Outro track: How it is and how it should be, by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
“Let’s Rethinking Education” jingle: Rocktopus
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact.
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod

Sep 23, 2024 • 2h 1min
"Before 7? They have a childhood." Lessons from Estonia with Gunda Tire
Welcome to the first episode of Season 5 of the Rethinking Education podcast!
As you may be aware, Estonia has consistently been the highest performing European country in the PISA assessments in recent years. This episode features my recent conversation with Gunda Tire, Head of International Assessments (PISA & TALIS) at Estonian Education and Youth Board.
Gunda very generously gave me almost 2 hours of her time to take a whirlwind tour around the Estonian education system - early childhood, curriculum, assessment, inspection (or the lack of it) - behaviour, attendance, technology - you name it, we cover it. In many cases, you’ll see that Estonia does things quite differently to how we do things in the UK.
While you can’t just cut and paste education policies from one country to another and expect them to work effortlessly - there is plenty of food for thought here which I hope the Labour education team will give some serious thought to.
LINKS
Free lunches, brain breaks and happy teachers: why Estonia has the best schools in Europe: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/27/free-lunches-brain-breaks-and-happy-teachers-why-estonia-has-the-best-schools-in-europe
Gunda TIRE: "Estonians believe in education, and this belief has been essential for centuries": https://english.caucasianjournal.org/2020/02/gunda-tire-estonians-believe-in.html
Gunda Tire - What is Estonia doing right? Presentation about PISA results for Estonia. British Council Education Conference: https://vimeo.com/207516457
Give us a (lovely!) review: https://www.tinyurl.com/raterepod
Outro track: 'How it is and how it should be' by Grit Control: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1ud69RIV1eOV9poMR7AORI
“Let’s Rethinking Education” jingle: https://www.rocktopusmusic.com/
DON'T BE A STRANGER
The Rethinking Education podcast is hosted by Dr James Mannion and produced by Sophie Dean. You can contact James at https://www.rethinking-ed.org/contact
SUPPORT THE RETHINKING ED PODCAST:
Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod
Buy James a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod
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