Ill Conceived

There's one guaranteed way to never get pregnant or contract a sexually transmitted infection: not having sex. In the 1990s, the United States government expanded efforts to fund programs that taught adolescents this fact. Unfortunately, that funding came with a few restrictions—most notably, the programs weren't allowed to promote or demonstrate any type of contraception whatsoever. This week, June and Josh try to figure out how these abstinence-only until marriage sex education initiatives got so much traction for so long. ***IN EDINBURGH THIS WEEK? Get tickets to the play Josh is directing, THE BOY FROM BANTAY, by clicking here!*** EPISODE ART: A graph from a report commissioned by the United States government to study the effectiveness of four abstinence-only sex education programs. There is no meaningful difference in outcomes between those who participated in the program and those who didn't. SOURCES: "Budget Widens Teen-Pregnancy-Prevention Efforts" by Laura Meckler (The Wall Street Journal, May 7, 2009) "Clinton Fires Surgeon General Over New Flap" by Paul Richter and Marlene Cimons (Los Angeles Times, December 10, 1994) History of Dedicated Federal Abstinence-Only-Until-Marriage Programs FY 1982-2019 from the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS) "Context counts: Long‐term sequelae of premarital intercourse or abstinence" by Nicole M. Else-Quest, Janet Shibley Hyde & John D. DeLamater (The Journal of Sex Research, 2005) Full text of Section 510, the Separate Program for Abstinence Education "Whatever Happened to the Adolescent Family Life Act?" by Rebecca Saul (Guttmacher Report on Public Policy, 1998) "Clinton Frees $250 Million for Sex Abstinence Teaching" by Melissa Healy (Los Angeles Times, March 1, 1997) "Impacts of Four Title V, Section 510 Abstinence Programs" report, published by HHS in 2007 "Consequences of sex education on teen and young adult sexual behaviors and outcomes" by Laura Duberstein Lindberg & Isaac Maddow-Zimet (The Journal of Adolescent Health, 2012) "Funding for Abstinence-Only Education and Adolescent Pregnancy Prevention: Does State Ideology Affect Outcomes?" by Ashley M Fox, Georgia Himmelstein, Hina Khalid & Elizabeth A. Howell (American Journal of Public Health, 2019) "Sex Education in Public Schools: Sexualization of Children and LGBT Indoctrination" by Cathy Ruse (Family Research Council, 2020) "The History of Federal Abstinence-Only Funding" fact sheet (Advocates for Youth, 2007) "Abstinence Education: Assessing the Evidence" by Christine C. Kim and Robert Rector (Heritage Foundation, 2008) AUDIO CLIPS: 29:58 - Rush Limbaugh talking about Joycelyn Elders on an episode of the Rush Limbaugh Show ca. 1994 35:30 - Joycelyn Elders in an interview with the National Visionary Leadership Project 1:04:03 - "Learn Gun Safety with Eddie Eagle" children's training video from the National Rifle Association (NRA) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Send us an email: illconceivedpod@gmail.com Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack

With natalism coming to the forefront of American politics in recent years, people who have long been writing about the declining birth rate have begun to take center stage in the larger political discourse. Many of these thinkers skew toward a conservative ideology. This week, Josh and June read through the writings of a modern conservative natalist writer, Lyman Stone, to get a better picture of where the natalist movement stands and better understand the political demands of the conservative natalist in the era of Donald Trump. EPISODE ART: Lyman Stone press photo from Demographic Research  SOURCES: As women have far fewer babies, the U.S. and the world face unprecedented challenges Lyman Stone on America’s falling birth rate Now Political Polarization Comes for Marriage Prospects You can’t even pay people to have more kids President Trump’s First 100 Days, April 2025 How Politics Drive Our Personal Relationships – and Even Where We Live Arranged and non-arranged marriages have similar reproductive outcomes in Nepal Promise and Peril: The History of American Religiosity and Its Recent Decline The Declining U.S. Birth Rate: A Demographic Shift with Far-Reaching Implications What Workism Is Doing to Parents Now Political Polarization Comes for Marriage Prospects Hungary’s Demographic Failure How to Fix Our Falling Fertility Rate (with Lyman Stone) Want More American Babies? Make the US More Livable More Thoughts on Falling Fertility AUDIO CLIPS 21:12 / 25:44 - Lyman Stone in an interview with Vox Media's Today, Explained  FOLLOW THE SHOW: Send us an email: illconceivedpod@gmail.com Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki Writing: June's Substack

In the history of the evangelical Christian family movement, one figure stands tall above the rest: a children's psychologist from Louisiana named James Dobson. For three decades, Dobson built up his media empire, Focus on the Family, on the back of his plain-spoken traditionalist approach to child rearing. Then, as the broader cultural tide shifted in favor of normalizing homosexual relationships, he got kicked out. This week, Josh and June take a look at why Dobson's approach resonated with so many parents in the 1970s, 80s and 90s, how his work institutionalized the natalist project among evangelical Christians, and how religious fundamentalism, no matter how polite, corrodes a healthy society. SUPPLEMENTAL LISTENING: Listen to I Hate James Dobson: Apple Podcasts / Spotify / Pocket Casts / YouTube Listen to The Worst of All Possible Worlds episode about the James Dobson/Ted Bundy interview: Apple Podcasts / Spotify / Pocket Casts / YouTube EPISODE ART: Focus on the Family press photo of James Dobson c. 2007 SOURCES: Focus on the Family's official historical timeline Focus on the Family 2015 financial disclosures, ProPublica Dobson's 1999 announcement of the leadership succession plan Dobson's 2003 announcement of Don Hodel's appointment as CEO Focus on the Family's Guiding Principles as enumerated on their website in November 2002 Focus on the Family's Guiding Principles as enumerated on their website today Family Research Council list of Family Policy Councils AUDIO CLIPS: 33:52 - James Dobson interviews Ted Bundy on death row 1:00:24 - James Dobson in a Focus on the Family Radio broadcast, October 6, 2005 1:04:03 - Guy Raz interviews Jim Daly on NPR All Things Considered (February 12, 2012) 1:11:16 - James Dobson interviews Ken Harrison, former Promise Keepers chairman, on Family Talk Radio 1:15:38 - James Dobson talks about declining birth rates on Family Talk Radio FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki Writing: June's Substack

When the first human baby was born through the use of a blossoming treatment called in vitro fertilization in the late 1970’s, society largely viewed this as a miracle of science that gave those struggling with fertility a chance to start a family. Catholic leadership, believing that taking procreation out of pregnancy went against God’s will, aligned themselves against the practice. Evangelicals, meanwhile, have still to this day not found solid guidance from their leaders on whether this procedure should be embraced or condemned. This week, Josh and June explore the history of in vitro fertilization and the complicated relationship many on the religious right have with it. EPISODE ART: Bishop Richard Burbidge, Catholic anti-IVF advocate SOURCES: The Alabama Supreme Court’s Ruling on Frozen Embryos Alabama legislature votes to restore IVF access The History of IVF: Origin and Developments of the 20th Century In Vitro Fertilization Comes of Age INSTRUCTION ON RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE IN ITS ORIGIN AND ON THE DIGNITY OF PROCREATION REPLIES TO CERTAIN QUESTIONS OF THE DAY Begotten Not Made: A Catholic View of Reproductive Technology Bishop Burbidge Writes against a Federal IVF Mandate Despite church prohibitions, Catholics still choose IVF to have children Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms: Fewer See Stem Cell Research and IVF as Moral Issues Pope Francis calls for a universal ban on surrogacy. He says it exploits mother and child Protestant Denominations Need Stronger Leadership on Assisted Reproductive Technology IVF: Moral and Ethical Considerations IVF is life-changing for infertile families. But the Christian right says it’s not in ‘God’s plan’ How the Christian Right Became So Hostile to IVF Republicans are rushing to defend IVF. The anti-abortion movement hopes to change their minds. Americans overwhelmingly say access to IVF is a good thing Republican IVF bill fails in U.S. Senate In vitro fertilization bills from both Democrats and GOP blocked in U.S. Senate Trump has signed an executive order on IVF. Here’s what you should know about the procedure What Trump’s IVF executive order means for access to fertility assistance for Americans Alabama IVF ruling looms over 2026 statewide elections VIDEO CLIPS Bishop Burbidge talking about the immorality of IVF  From the archives: Pope Francis explains why he's against surrogacy

Opposition to legal abortion wasn't always a consensus matter across the Christian Right. In fact, as recently as the early 1970s, Protestants mostly considered it a "Catholic issue." But against a backdrop of paranoia about government overreach into religious affairs and fear of demographic decline, a Catholic named Paul Weyrich and an evangelical named Jerry Falwell joined hands to turn abortion into the signature mobilizing issue of their new Moral Majority. This week, June and Josh look at how this historical moment was primed for exploitation, why Christian rhetoric and policy toward abortion shifted so quickly, and what the long-term durability of this unholy alliance means as Americans continue to see their civil rights rolled back by the Trump administration. CLICK HERE AND DONATE TO AN ABORTION FUND IN YOUR AREA TODAY EPISODE IMAGE: Paul Weyrich, cofounder of the Moral Majority, in a Heritage Foundation portrait from 1982 SOURCES: "Creating the Litmus Test: Abortion, Mainline Protestants, and the Rise of the Religious Right" by Sabrina Danielsen "Family Values" and the Formation of a Christian Right Agenda by Seth Dowland Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right by Randall Balmer “How the Right Uses Abortion Restrictions to Reinforce Racist and Gendered Hierarchies” by Cassie Miller, Southern Poverty Law Center “Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church’s Constant Teaching” from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Historical Abortion Law Timeline: 1850 to Today from Planned Parenthood Action “The Religious Right and the Abortion Myth” by Randall Balmer, POLITICO "Here's how much the ICE budget would increase under Trump's megabill" by Grace Deng, Snopes AUDIO CLIPS: 42:55 – Ronald Reagan delivers an address to religious leaders at the 1980 National Affairs Briefing FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki Writing: June's Substack

Josh and June look into the past of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the current Health and Human Services secretary, and how his history led to him getting involved with the MAGA movement. Once a liberal and advocate for environmental issues, Kennedy took a turn into anti-science and pseudo-health political movements later in life and gained notoriety within Trumpworld. Now that this conspiracy theorist holds the reins of America’s largest government health institution, we zoom into how these beliefs inform what he has done, what he still intends to do with this power, and why his long-standing emphasis on children's health resonates so strongly with people who are invested in the natalist agenda. SOURCES: RFK Jr. Suggests Not Enough Teens Are Getting Pregnant, Rails Against Youth Testosterone Levels Inside RFK Jr.'s nonprofit's legal battles over vaccines and public health 'RFK'ing the french fries': Steak 'n Shake becomes a MAHA darling RFK Jr.: I’m fighting chronic disease, slashing unhealthy fat at HHS RFK Jr. says autism database will use Medicare and Medicaid info How R.F.K. Jr. Went From Environmental Champion to Trump Backer AUDIO CLIPS: 16:29 - Bernie Sanders asks RFK Jr. if he is supportive of these onesies in a Senate hearing (C-SPAN, January 29, 2025) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki Writing: June's Substack

Josh and June take a look at Promise Keepers, the organization that massed 700,000 men on the National Mall in Washington, DC for a 1997 rally that promised to bring spiritual renewal to its attendees and a new order to the social health of the country. While they didn't quite pull off the fundamental transformation they were hoping for, Promise Keepers left a significant impact on the evangelical Christian psyche. And somehow, they're still around today, desperately trying to convince the world of their definition of fatherhood and family. SOURCES: The First Promise Keepers Event: Witnessing the Power of God" by David Roadcup Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation by Kristin Kobes du Mez Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper by Bill McCartney et al. "Promise Keepers pledge to move from stadium rallies to the marketplace" by Adelle Banks, Religion News Service "New Promise Keepers CEO ready to see a revival among men" by Maina Mwaura, The Christian Index "Promise Keepers Pour Into The Nation's Capital" (CNN, 1997) "The Promise Keepers Opens Its Doors To Women" (NPR, 2009)   AUDIO CLIPS: 6:18 – Bill McCartney in a profile by WXYZ-TV Detroit (September 24, 1994) 32:46 – Norm MacDonald on Saturday Night Live Weekend Update (October 4, 1997) 33:23 – Joseph Garlington, Promise Keepers worship leader, at the 1997 Stand in the Gap rally 34:55 – Patricia Ireland, president of the National Organization for Women, on Charlie Rose (October 3, 1997) 36:31 – Huron Claus, Native American Christian evangelist, at the 1997 Stand in the Gap rally 38:00 – Bill McCartney, Promise Keepers founder, on Larry King Live (October 7, 1997) 47:49 – Shane Winnings, current Promise Keepers CEO, on Morning Joe (April 3, 2025) 50:50 – Web trailer for Wake-Up Call, the 2025 Promise Keepers in-person summit in Yakima   FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@ill-conceived-pod.bsky.social‬ Tumblr: @illconceivedpod   FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench   FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki Writing: June's Substack

Ill Conceived is a new podcast about natalism—the ideology that sees declining birthrates as the most important issue in modern American politics—and how it's a skeleton key to understanding both the MAGA movement and reactionary conservatism more broadly. Hosted by Josh Boerman of The Worst of All Possible Worlds and June Sternbach of Western Kabuki, each week the show will take a look at the actions and effects of this movement, as well as the people and organizations that paved the way to the moment we're now in. New episodes every Friday, beginning on June 20. FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@ill-conceived-pod.bsky.social‬ Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Western Kabuki FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds