The Gist

On The Gist, Jeffrey Epstein's ideas. In the interview, when Chuck Klosterman writes non-fiction, he worries about missing some grand historical context in a way that would ruin his work. With fiction, that anxiety goes out the window— if someone reads one of his short stories and thinks something "completely unrelated to what I thought, it's still okay." Klosterman digs into that, the advantages of an education outside the ivory tower, and what the Beatles really did for rock music. His new book of short stories is Raised in Captivity: Fictional Nonfiction. In the Spiel, the first night of the CNN debates and Marianne Williamson. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, billionaire Tom Steyer didn't qualify for this round of Democratic debates, but he's bought a lot of CNN ad space to make up for it. In the interview, political consultants David Axelrod and Mike Murphy have spent years advising politicians on the best ways to run campaigns—Axelrod with Barack Obama and Murphy with candidates like John McCain and Mitt Romney. Now they've come together on a new podcast, Hacks on Tap, to talk through how the political machine actually runs, the Democratic debates, and what Trump's prospects look like in 2020. In the Spiel, among the septuagenarian presidential candidates, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only ones with all their marbles. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, Trump and racism. In the interview, Politico's Tim Alberta has been covering the Republican Party since 2009, back when it was "totally rudderless and beaten into the ground." Ten years later, and though in control of the White House, the GOP isn't in much better shape. Alberta's new book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. In the Spiel, impeachment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A few months ago, Dan Taberski joined us to talk about latest season of his Headlong podcast, Running From Cops, focused on reality television shows about police. One series in particular, Live PD, was billed as a documentary but seemed to fall into the same bad practices as other reality programming. Taberski tried to interview the Dan Abrams, the show's host, and was never able to get him on mic. Lucky for us, in 2016 Mike interviewed Abrams for The Gist when Live PD was first airing. So we're airing a few clips of Mike's conversation with Taberski, the Running From Cops segment about Live PD, and Mike's 2016 interview with Abrams. Enjoy the cop-a-thon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, Robert Mueller was a bit of a broken record in his congressional testimony. In the interview, David Wolman once happened upon a small Hawaiian museum dedicated to a small crew of cowboys in the state—and that was the first he heard of them. He teamed up with Julian Smith to dig into the fascinating history of these cowpokes and how they dazzled the world at the 1908 World Rodeo Championships. Their new book is Aloha Rodeo: Three Hawaiian Cowboys, the World's Greatest Rodeo, and a Hidden History of the American West. In the Spiel, we've perhaps seen the last of Robert Mueller's public statements. And the impeachment needle hasn't moved one bit. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, the governor of Puerto Rico will not seek reelection. In the interview, Chris Herren's NBA career ended largely because of drug abuse that started in his teens. Now he speaks to thousands of students about making better choices—not by using the fear tactics often deployed in American schools, but by examining the emotions tied to substance use. Herren's presentations are the subject of a new ESPN documentary, The First Day. In the Spiel, Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, Robert Mueller's congressional testimony isn't likely to increase the pressure on president Trump. In the interview, losing weight is hard, but keeping it off is even harder. What can successful dieters do to maintain their goals, and are reality TV shows like The Biggest Loser painting a rosy picture? Gist regular Maria Konnikova dug into the science, and brings answers on the latest segment of Is That Bullshit? Konnikova is the author of The Confidence Game. In the Spiel, former Sen. Al Franken was hard done by. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, why the moon landing's 50th anniversary isn't getting all that much attention. In the interview, success stories are great, but what about those business ventures that end in spectacular failure? Those tales are often better. Lauren Ober hosts the Spectacular Failures podcast, where beer makers, hotel chains, and (in an upcoming episode) Trump's casinos meet their end. In the Spiel, it's an Antentwig, where Mike responds to feedback from listeners. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, Ivanka Trump is every bit the monster her father is. In the interview, Senator Michael Bennet is here to talk about his campaign for president and his new book The Land of Flickering Lights: Restoring America in an Age of Broken Politics. He and Mike discuss Bennet's family plan, the importance of the filibuster, and why centrism needs to work on its branding. In the Spiel, there is no Spiel! Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On The Gist, Chance the snapper. In the interview, former EPA head Gina McCarthy expected the Trump administration's backwardness on climate change—but not on no-brainers like limits on power plant mercury emissions and auto industry regulation, both of which were being complied with. "They're just obsessed with undoing everything Obama did. You can tell this with Trump. He's still somehow campaigning against Obama." McCarthy was the EPA's administrator from 2013 to 2017, and now teaches at the Harvard School of Public Health. In the Spiel, which mythical being is Trump most like? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices