Redefining Society and Technology Podcast

Guest: Cassie Crossley, VP, Supply Chain Security, Schneider Electric [@SchneiderElec]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiecrossley/____________________________Hosts: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinMarco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Episode NotesIn this episode of On Location with Sean and Marco, hosts Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli head to San Francisco to attend the OWASP Global AppSec conference. They kick off their journey with a light-hearted conversation about their destination, quickly segueing into the substantive core of the episode. The dialogue provides a rich backdrop to the conference's key focus: securing applications and the crucial role of Software Bill of Materials (SBOMs) in this context.Special guest Cassie Crossley joins the hosts to delve deeper into the significance of SBOMs. Cassie introduces herself and highlights her previous engagements with the podcast, touching on her upcoming session titled "The Missing Link: How We Collect and Leverage SBOMs." She explains the essential function of SBOMs in tracking open-source and commercial software components, noting the importance of transparency and risk evaluation in modern software development.Cassie explains that understanding the software components in use, including transitive dependencies, is crucial for managing risks. She discusses how her company, Schneider Electric, implements SBOMs within their varied product lines, ranging from firmware to cloud-based applications. By collecting and analyzing SBOMs, they can quickly assess vulnerabilities, much like how organizations scrambled to evaluate their exposure in the wake of the Log4J vulnerability.Sean and Marco steer the conversation towards the practical aspects of SBOM implementation for smaller companies. Cassie reassures that even startups and smaller enterprises can benefit from SBOMs without extensive resources, using free tools like Dependency-Track to manage their software inventories. She emphasizes that having an SBOM—even in a simplified form—provides a critical layer of visibility, enabling better risk management even with limited means.The discussion touches on the broader impact of SBOMs beyond individual corporations. Cassie notes the importance of regulatory developments and collective efforts, such as those by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), to advocate for wider adoption of SBOM standards across industries.To wrap up, the hosts and Cassie discuss the value of conferences like OWASP Global AppSec for fostering community dialogues, sharing insights, and staying abreast of new developments in application security. They encourage listeners to attend these events to gain valuable knowledge and networking opportunities. Finally, in their closing remarks, Sean and Marco tease future episodes in the On Location series, hinting at more exciting content from their travels and guest interviews.____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsHITRUST: https://itspm.ag/itsphitweb____________________________Follow our OWASP 2024 Global AppSec San Francisco coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/owasp-2024-global-appsec-san-francisco-cybersecurity-and-application-security-event-coverageOn YouTube: 📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllTcqoGpeR1rdo6p47Ozu1jtBe sure to share and subscribe!____________________________ResourcesThe Missing Link - How We Collect and Leverage SBOMs (Session): https://owasp2024globalappsecsanfra.sched.com/event/1g3XV/the-missing-link-how-we-collect-and-leverage-sbomsWhy the Industry Needs OpenSSF | A Conversation with Omkhar Arasaratnam, Adrianne Marcum, Arun Gupta, and Christopher Robinson | Redefining CyberSecurity with Sean Martin: https://redefiningcybersecuritypodcast.com/episodes/why-the-industry-needs-openssf-a-conversation-with-omkhar-arasaratnam-adrianne-marcum-arun-gupta-and-christopher-robinson-redefining-cybersecurity-with-sean-martinLearn more about OWASP 2024 Global AppSec San Francisco: https://sf.globalappsec.org/SBOM-a-Rama: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7232385837869469699/____________________________Catch all of our event coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/technology-cybersecurity-society-humanity-conference-and-event-coverageTo see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastTo see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring our event coverage with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplcWant to tell your Brand Story as part of our event coverage?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/evtcovbrf Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Book: The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI by  Ray Kurzweil  (Author) https://amzn.to/3Zk7CTaGuest: Dr. Bruce Y Lee, Executive Director of PHICOR (Public Health Informatics, Computational, and Operations Research) [@PHICORteam]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-y-lee-68a6834/On Twitter | https://twitter.com/bruce_y_leeWebsite | https://www.bruceylee.com/On Forbes | https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/On Psychology Today | https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/bruce-y-lee-md-mba_____________________________Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli_____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsBlackCloak 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbcwebBugcrowd 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbgcweb_____________________________Episode IntroductionHello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Redefining Society Podcast. This episode also marks the return of the series "A Carbon, a Silicon, and a Cell Walk Into a Bar," wherein I'll be joined by my good friend and co-host, Dr. Bruce Y. Lee. Today, we're diving into a topic that perfectly aligns with the ethos of our series – transhumanism.Setting the StageIn our chat, Bruce and I discussed various facets of transhumanism, from its historical roots to the ethical dilemma it poses today. I opened the conversation by expressing how delighted I was to have Bruce, a man of many talents, join me. I emphasized his diverse background in journalism, medical expertise, and his strange affinity for avocados – a passion that I certainly share with him. We started by noting the sheer breadth of transhumanism – a term encompassing everything from genetic manipulation to uploading our brains to the cloud.Human History Meets Future PotentialBruce brought up a thought-provoking point about how humanity's journey with technology is not new. Even something as ancient as the wheel fundamentally altered what humans could accomplish. The act of inventing the wheel allowed humans to do things they couldn't do before, much like what transhumanist technologies promise today. However, Bruce and I quickly recognized that more complex technologies, like genetic manipulation and AI integration, bring forth a host of ethical and practical questions.Confronting Ethical QuestionsWe moved on to discuss the ethical implications of transhumanism. Where does one draw the line between necessary medical interventions and unnecessary enhancements? For example, medical implants that help people with degenerative diseases are widely accepted. Yet, when technology is used to enhance human abilities – making one faster or smarter – the ethical waters become murkier.Balance of Benefits and RisksBruce highlighted how society has historically handled similar ethical conundrums. One poignant example is performance-enhancing drugs in sports. Initially, these drugs were developed for legitimate medical use, yet athletes later adopted them to gain unfair advantages, skewing the level playing field. Bruce and I agreed that such parallels are worth pondering as we consider transhumanist technologies.A Garlic-Inspired ReflectionThroughout our conversation, we found humor and caution in the metaphorical garlic Dr. Bruce brought along (as a background image) an amusing yet insightful reminder of the importance of asking questions. We concluded that while we should remain optimistic about technological advancements, it’s vital to ask intelligent questions and consider potential consequences before diving headfirst into uncharted waters. This garlic-induced paradigm should guide our approach to emerging technologies like AI and brain-computer interfaces.Looking ForwardFor future episodes, Bruce and I have a packed agenda. We'll tackle specific topics like healthcare inequality in the age of singularity, human augmentation, and even far-fetched ideas like uploading your brain to the cloud. Each of these topics offers a blend of promise and peril – perfect for a series dedicated to exploring how technology is both reshaping and being shaped by society.Closing ThoughtsSo, stay tuned, and don't forget to subscribe! We’ll cover these fascinating topics and much more in our upcoming episodes. And a special thanks to Bruce and the ever-vigilant garlic for reminding us to thoughtfully navigate the complex landscape of transhumanist technology.See You Next TimeYou'll find links to connect with Bruce and explore his incredible contributions in journalism and medicine. I promise you; he's just as insightful and entertaining as he seems in the series. So, see you next time – same bar, same garlic, new topics!_____________________________ResourcesThe Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI (Book): https://amzn.to/3Zk7CTa____________________________To see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastWatch the webcast version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllTUoWMGGQHlGVZA575VtGr9Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/advertise-on-itspmagazine-podcast Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Guest: Jeff Reich, Executive Director, Identity Defined Security Alliance [@idsalliance]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jreich/On Twitter | https://twitter.com/JeffReichCSO____________________________Hosts: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinMarco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Episode NotesWelcome to this pre-event episode of On Location, where we’re diving into what’s to come at Identity Week Americas, happening September 11th and 12th, 2024, at the Washington Convention Center in D.C. Although I won’t be on-site, Jeff—who leads the Identity Defined Security Alliance (IDSA)—gave me the inside scoop on why this event is one you can’t afford to miss.Our conversation ranges from the critical role of digital identities and payments, to the pressing challenges facing the identity landscape today. Jeff shared insights on the panels he’ll be participating in, like Interoperable Digital Identities and The Future of Payments, giving a preview of the big discussions that will take place at the event.We even touched on more serious global issues, such as the plight of refugees who lack identification, and how Identity Week is working toward solutions that can have a real impact. On top of that, the SIDI HUB Summit will run alongside the event, focusing on creating a standardized, globally recognized digital identity system.With Identity Week happening across multiple continents—from the Americas to Europe and Asia—the need for international collaboration has never been clearer. Jeff’s vision for a globally interoperable identity system is ambitious, but the starting point is simple: practical steps like multi-factor authentication and building awareness about identity security.As we look forward to the event, Jeff also mentioned that there might still be some passes available for those interested in attending. Whether you’re in the public sector, tech, or simply passionate about identity solutions, this event is your chance to get involved in shaping the future.Stay tuned for more coverage, and thanks for joining me on this pre-event journey as we explore what’s in store at Identity Week Americas.Be sure to follow our Coverage Journey and subscribe to our podcasts!____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsHITRUST: https://itspm.ag/itsphitweb____________________________Catch all of our event coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/technology-cybersecurity-society-humanity-conference-and-event-coverageOn YouTube: 📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllQtJTmj9bp2RMzfkXLnN4--Be sure to share and subscribe!____________________________ResourcesLearn more about Identity Week USA 2024: https://itspm.ag/identinwxnSIDI Hub: https://sidi-hub.community/____________________________To see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastTo see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring our event coverage with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplcWant to tell your Brand Story as part of our event coverage?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/evtcovbrf Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Guest: ✨ Dr. Neal Baer, Co-Director, Master's Degree Program in Media, Medicine, and Health, Harvard Medical SchoolOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/neal-baer/On Twitter | https://x.com/NealBaerOn Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/neal.baer.75/On Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/nealbaer/____________________________Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli_____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsBlackCloak 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbcwebBugcrowd 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbgcweb_____________________________Episode IntroductionWe live in a time where the boundaries between the physical and virtual worlds are increasingly blurred—a Hybrid Analog-Digital Society. The future isn’t just approaching; it’s already here. In this new age, it’s vital to contemplate our intertwined existence with technology and redefine what society means. This blog post captures the enlightening conversation between Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Neal Baer about the potential and pitfalls of CRISPR, a revolutionary technology reshaping human capability and ethical considerations.Welcome MessageMarco Ciappelli enthusiastically sets the stage for a deeply engaging discussion:“Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Redefining Society Podcast. I’m thrilled to have Dr. Neal Baer with me today. We were chatting before the show about my other podcast, Audio Signals, where we discuss storytelling. Today, however, we’re here to explore his book about health, technology, and their societal impact.”The Intersection of Media and MedicineDr. Neal Baer, a multifaceted professional—TV writer, producer, and medical doctor—introduces himself and outlines his diverse career:“Thank you. It’s really nice to be chatting with you from New York City. I live in Paris and Boston because, in Paris, I work as a TV writer and producer—what’s called a showrunner. I worked on shows like ER and Law & Order: Special Victims Unit for a total of 18 years. I also created the first master’s degree program in media, medicine, and health at Harvard Medical School.”The Origin of Dr. Baer’s Interest in CRISPRDr. Baer shares how his exposure to devastating genetic diseases as a pediatrician sparked his interest in CRISPR:“As a pediatrician, I encountered terrible diseases like sickle cell disease, adrenal leukodystrophy, and Tay-Sachs. CRISPR represented a beacon of hope for treating these conditions. Our ability to precisely edit genes could transform lives—an endeavor that has now become a reality.”Demystifying CRISPRTo make CRISPR’s conversation accessible, Marco Ciappelli asks for a simplified explanation:“CRISPR is essentially a tool that allows us to cut and paste genetic material. Imagine correcting a typo in a word. Similarly, we can correct genetic ‘typos’ that cause diseases. CRISPR uses enzymes like Cas9 to cut the DNA and replace faulty segments with the correct ones.”Ethical Dilemmas and Societal ConsensusDr. Baer discusses the ethical and philosophical questions surrounding genetic editing, focusing on access and the broader societal impact:“CRISPR raises fundamental issues about who benefits from such groundbreaking technology. These questions aren’t just scientific—they talk about ethics and societal values. For example, while sickle cell disease can now be treated using CRISPR, the cost is prohibitive—between two and three million dollars per person. This disparity raises profound questions about equity and accessibility.”The Urgent Need for Public DiscourseThe conversation shifts towards the importance of public awareness and societal dialogue in addressing these ethical dilemmas:“We need a democratic approach to discussing CRISPR and other advanced technologies. Public awareness is crucial. The challenge lies in making these discussions accessible and engaging to everyone—not just scientists and policymakers.”The Future Is Now: Embrace or Caution?As technology continues to evolve, the hosts discuss where to draw the line between embracing new advancements and exercising caution:“We must learn from past technological advancements—fossil fuels and plastics—which brought unforeseen consequences. With CRISPR and AI, the stakes are even higher. It’s crucial to balance innovation with caution.”ConclusionDr. Baer emphasizes that his book aims to spark a broader conversation, including diverse voices and perspectives:“The book The Promise and Peril of CRISPR aims to open up the dialogue to everyone—from scientists to philosophers to everyday people. It covers personal stories, philosophical essays, and scientific perspectives to present a comprehensive view of the promise and challenges that CRISPR brings.”About the BookA timely collection of essays on the pressing possibilities and risks of gene-editing technology.Scientists and genetic engineers are becoming increasingly adept at editing the human genome. How far can—and should—they go in editing future generations? In The Promise and Peril of CRISPR, editor Neal Baer brings together a timely collection of essays by influential bioethicists, philosophers, and geneticists to explore the moral, ethical, and policy challenges posed by CRISPR technology.We are at a technological and ethical crossroads in grappling with the impacts of genetic editing. Gene-editing technology holds the promise of curing more than 7,000 known genetic diseases. Yet with that promise comes the peril of using CRISPR to edit the human genome, which could not only lead to manipulating human evolution, but also to creating and releasing pathogens capable of wreaking havoc on human, animal, and plant life. Although CRISPR has already cured several genetic diseases, it could also be used to design biological weapons or to edit the embryos of people who can afford to purchase genetic "enhancements" for their children.What role can and should the public play in discussing the far-reaching implications of gene editing? What oversights should be put in place to prevent a rogue scientist from engineering another baby – as was recently done with twins in China?Essay contributors offer informed predictions and guidelines for how the uses of CRISPR today will affect life in the future. Decisions we make now may have unpredictable consequences for future generations. For anyone concerned about the uses and potential abuses of gene editing, these essays provide a critical and comprehensive discussion of the central issues surrounding CRISPR technology.Contributors: Florence Ashley, R. Alta Charo, Marcy Darnovsky, Kevin Doxzen, Rosemarie Garland-Thomson, Gigi Kwik Gronvall, Jodi Halpern, Katie Hasson, Andrew C. Heinrich, Jacqueline Humphries, J. Benjamin Hurlbut, Ellen D. Jorgensen, Peter F. R. Mills, Carol Padden, Marcus Schultz-Bergin, Robert Sparrow, Sandra Sufian, Krystal Tsosie, Ethan Weiss, Rachel M. West_____________________________ResourcesThe Promise and Peril of CRISPR: https://press.jhu.edu/books/title/12754/promise-and-peril-crispr____________________________To see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastWatch the webcast version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllTUoWMGGQHlGVZA575VtGr9Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/advertise-on-itspmagazine-podcast Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Guests: Fred Heiding, Research Fellow, HarvardOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/fheiding/On Twitter | https://twitter.com/fredheidingOn Mastodon | https://mastodon.social/@fredheidingOn Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/fheiding/Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Host: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinView This Show's Sponsors___________________________Episode NotesIn today's digital era, AI-enhanced phishing attacks are transforming the landscape of cybersecurity. An insightful episode of The Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast features host Sean Martin alongside ITSPmagazine co-founder Marco Ciappelli, and guest Fred Heiding, a research fellow in computer science at Harvard School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, and a fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School.Fred Heiding shares updates on the evolution of phishing attacks using AI, highlighting both the technical facets and the societal implications. He explains how advanced language models can now automate the creation of highly realistic phishing emails, making it easier and more cost-effective for attackers to target individuals and organizations.Heiding discusses the concept of hyper-personalization, where attackers gather granular information about their targets, such as their communication patterns and personal interests, to craft emails that seem authentic and trustworthy. This hyper-personalization poses significant challenges.Heiding provides an example where attackers mimicked a Black Hat organizer's email, highlighting the precision and timing crucial for successful phishing. The use of open-source language models, which can be adjusted by developers to remove any built-in protections, further exacerbates the issue.Marco Ciappelli ponders the potential solutions by leveraging AI for defensive strategies. Heiding acknowledges this is an area with promise, particularly in personalized spam filters, yet notes the inherent advantages attackers hold over defenders due to the unpatchable nature of human intuition. Defense mechanisms using AI can marginally enhance current spam filters but face limitations in practicality and widespread adoption because of people's reluctance toward continuous training and complex defense mechanisms.Sean Martin evaluates the potential of AI in monitoring patterns of human vulnerability over time, which could redefine phishing training by focusing on specific, individualized principles. However, he also stresses the economic aspect, citing that cheaper and more efficient phishing methods increase the attack's scale and frequency, further complicating defensive strategies.Heiding and Ciappelli both emphasize that while technological advancements provide tools for protection, they also require more personal data to be effective—a trade-off that involves significant privacy concerns. The future of online trust, according to Heiding, appears precarious. As phishing attacks become more sophisticated, the very nature of how people trust digital communications must evolve.Overall, this episode underscores the critical need for ongoing research and dialogue in cybersecurity, focusing on balancing innovation in defense mechanisms against the ever-advancing sophistication of attacks.___________________________SponsorsImperva: https://itspm.ag/imperva277117988LevelBlue: https://itspm.ag/attcybersecurity-3jdk3___________________________Watch this and other videos on ITSPmagazine's YouTube ChannelRedefining CyberSecurity Podcast with Sean Martin, CISSP playlist:📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllS9aVGdiakVss9u7xgYDKYqITSPmagazine YouTube Channel:📺 https://www.youtube.com/@itspmagazineBe sure to share and subscribe!___________________________ResourcesHarvard Business Review article: https://hbr.org/2024/05/ai-will-increase-the-quantity-and-quality-of-phishing-scamsIEEE Access article: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10466545BSides presentation: https://bsideslv.org/talks#8WK8P3Hacking Humans Using LLMs with Fredrik Heiding: Devising and Detecting Phishing: Large Language Models vs. Smaller Human Models | Las Vegas Black Hat 2023 Event Coverage | Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast With Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli: https://redefining-cybersecurity.simplecast.com/episodes/hacking-humans-using-llms-with-fredrik-heiding-devising-and-detecting-phishing-large-language-models-vs-smaller-human-models-las-vegas-black-hat-2023-event-coverage-redefining-cybersecurity-podcast-with-sean-martin-and-marco-ciappelliA Framework for Evaluating National Cybersecurity Strategies | A Black Hat USA 2024 Conversation with Fred Heiding | On Location Coverage with Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli: https://redefining-cybersecurity.simplecast.com/episodes/a-framework-for-evaluating-national-cybersecurity-strategies-a-black-hat-usa-2024-conversation-with-fred-heiding-on-location-coverage-with-sean-martin-and-marco-ciappelliDeep Backdoors in Deep Reinforcement Learning Agents | A Black Hat USA 2024 Conversation with Vas Mavroudis and Jamie Gawith | On Location Coverage with Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli: https://itsprad.io/redefiningcybersecurity-454___________________________To see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring this show with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplc Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hosts: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinMarco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Episode NotesIn this episode of "On Location With Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli," our hosts dive into their time at Black Hat 2024 in Las Vegas, reflecting on key takeaways and sharing what’s next on their journey. Whether you're deep into cybersecurity or just curious about the industry, this blog post offers a snapshot of what to expect from Sean and Marco.Recapping Black Hat 2024Marco CiappelliChoo, choo . . .Sean MartinIs that the sound of the fast train back from Vegas? Or just the rush of everything we experienced?Marco CiappelliI'm still wondering why there's no train from LA to Vegas. And don't get me started on LA to San Francisco—that's another conversation entirely.The conversation kicks off with a lighthearted nod to travel woes before shifting to the core of the episode: their reflections on Black Hat 2024. Sean and Marco bring unique perspectives, emphasizing the importance of thinking beyond cybersecurity's technical aspects to consider its broader impact on society and business.Sean's Operational InsightsSean MartinI like to look at things from an operational angle—how can we take what we learn and bring it back to the business to help leaders and practitioners do what they love?Sean’s Black Hat 2024 Recap Newsletter explores the evolution from reactive data responses to strategic enablement, AI and automation, modular cybersecurity, and the invaluable role of human insights. His focus is clear: helping businesses become more resilient and adaptable through smarter cybersecurity practices.Marco's Societal ImpactMarco CiappelliCybersecurity isn’t a destination—it’s a journey. We’re never going to be fully secure, and that’s okay. Cultures change, technology evolves, and we have to keep adapting.Marco’s take highlights the societal implications of cybersecurity. He talk about how different fields and nations are breaking down silos to collaborate more effectively. His newsletter often reflects on the need for digital literacy across business, society, and education, emphasizing the importance of broadening our understanding of technology’s role.Upcoming Events and ConferencesThe duo is excited about their packed schedule for the rest of 2024 and beyond, including:CyberTech New York (September 2024): Focused on policy, innovation, SecOps, AppSec, and sustainability.OWASP AppSec San Francisco (September 2024): Covering the OWASP Top 10 for LLMs and more.Sector in Toronto (October 2024): Offering unique coverage ideas, closely tied to Black Hat.Did someone said that they will be back covering an APJ event, in Melbourne, before the end of the year???  Additional VenturesThey’ll also be hosting innovation panels and keynotes at a company event in New Orleans, with CES in Las Vegas and VivaTech in Paris on the horizon for 2025, blending B2B startup insights with consumer tech, all with a cybersecurity twist.Subscribe and Stay TunedMarco and Sean invite you to subscribe to their newsletters and follow their podcast, "On Location," as they continue their journey around the globe—both physically and virtually—bringing fresh perspectives on business, technology, and cybersecurity. You’ll also find unique "brand stories" that highlight innovations making our world safer and more sustainable.Stay connected, enjoy the ride, and don’t forget to subscribe to both their newsletters and the "On Location" podcast on YouTube!Be sure to follow our Coverage Journey and subscribe to our podcasts!____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsLevelBlue: https://itspm.ag/levelblue266f6cCoro: https://itspm.ag/coronet-30deSquareX: https://itspm.ag/sqrx-l91Britive: https://itspm.ag/britive-3fa6AppDome: https://itspm.ag/appdome-neuv____________________________Follow our Black Hat USA  2024 coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/black-hat-usa-2024-hacker-summer-camp-2024-event-coverage-in-las-vegasOn YouTube: 📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllRo9DcHmre_45ha-ru7cZMQBe sure to share and subscribe!____________________________ResourcesSean's Newsletter Article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/reflecting-black-hat-2024-operationalizing-enhanced-business-martin-ccive/Marco's Newsletter Article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/my-reflections-from-itspmagazines-black-hat-usa-2024-state-ciappelli-ayglc/?trackingId=hLvuq5LqQ%2B2RHNpgDtIJlQ%3D%3DOn Location Podcast: https://on-location-with-sean-martin-and-marco-ciappelli.simplecast.comLearn more about Black Hat USA  2024: https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/____________________________Catch all of our event coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/technology-cybersecurity-society-humanity-conference-and-event-coverageTo see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastTo see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring our event coverage with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplcWant to tell your Brand Story as part of our event coverage?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/evtcovbrf Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. 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My Reflections from ITSPmagazine’s Black Hat USA 2024 Coverage: 
The State of Cybersecurity and Its Societal ImpactPrologueEach year, Black Hat serves as a critical touchpoint for the cybersecurity industry—a gathering that offers unparalleled insights into the latest threats, technologies, and strategies that define our collective defense efforts. Established in 1997, Black Hat has grown from a single conference in Las Vegas to a global series of events held in cities like Barcelona, London, and Riyadh. The conference brings together a diverse audience, from hackers and security professionals to executives and non-technical individuals, all united by a shared interest in information security.What sets Black Hat apart is its unique blend of cutting-edge research, hands-on training, and open dialogue between the many stakeholders in the cybersecurity ecosystem. It's a place where corporations, government agencies, and independent researchers converge to exchange ideas and push the boundaries of what's possible in securing our digital world. As the cybersecurity landscape continues to evolve, Black Hat remains a vital forum for addressing the challenges and opportunities that come with it.Sean and I engaged in thought-provoking conversations with 27 industry leaders during our coverage of Black Hat USA 2024 in Las Vegas, where the intersection of society and technology was at the forefront. These discussions underscored the urgent need to integrate cybersecurity deeply into our societal framework, not just within business operations. As our digital world grows more complex, the conversations revealed a collective understanding that the true challenge lies in transforming these strategic insights into actions that shape a safer and more resilient society, while also recognizing the changes in how society must adapt to the demands of advancing technology.As I walked through the bustling halls of Black Hat 2024, I was struck by the sheer dynamism of the cybersecurity landscape. The conversations, presentations, and cutting-edge technologies on display painted a vivid picture of where we stand today in our ongoing battle to secure the digital world. More than just a conference, Black Hat serves as a barometer for the state of cybersecurity—a reflection of our collective efforts to protect the systems that have become so integral to our daily lives. The Constant Evolution of ThreatsOne of the most striking observations from Black Hat 2024 is the relentless pace at which cyber threats are evolving. Every year, the threat landscape becomes more complex, with attackers finding new ways to exploit vulnerabilities in areas that were once considered secure. This year, it became evident that even the most advanced security measures can be circumvented if organizations become complacent. The need for continuous vigilance, constant updating of security protocols, and a proactive approach to threat detection has never been more critical.The discussions at Black Hat reinforced the idea that we are in a perpetual arms race with cybercriminals. They adapt quickly, leveraging emerging technologies to refine their tactics and launch increasingly sophisticated attacks. As defenders, we must be equally agile, continuously learning and evolving our strategies to stay one step ahead. Integration and Collaboration: Breaking Down SilosAnother key theme at Black Hat 2024 was the importance of breaking down silos within organizations. In an increasingly interconnected world, isolated security measures are no longer sufficient. The traditional boundaries between different teams—whether they be development, operations, or security—are blurring. To effectively combat modern threats, there needs to be seamless integration and collaboration across all departments.This holistic approach to cybersecurity is not just about technology; it’s about fostering a culture of communication and cooperation. By aligning the goals and efforts of various teams, organizations can create a unified front against cyber threats. This not only enhances security but also improves efficiency and resilience, allowing for quicker responses to incidents and a more robust defense posture. The Dual Role of AI in CybersecurityArtificial Intelligence (AI) was a major focus at this year’s event, and for good reason. AI has the potential to revolutionize cybersecurity, offering new tools and capabilities for threat detection, response, and prevention. However, it also introduces new challenges and risks. As AI systems become more prevalent, they themselves become targets for exploitation. This dual role of AI—both as a tool and a target—was a hot topic of discussion.The consensus at Black Hat was clear: while AI can significantly enhance our ability to protect against threats, we must also be vigilant in securing AI systems themselves. This requires a deep understanding of how these systems operate and where they may be vulnerable. It’s a reminder that every technological advancement comes with its own set of risks, and it’s our responsibility to anticipate and mitigate those risks as best we can. Empowering Users and Enhancing Digital LiteracyA recurring theme throughout Black Hat 2024 was the need to empower users—not just those in IT or security roles, but everyone who interacts with digital systems. In today’s world, cybersecurity is everyone’s responsibility. However, many users still lack the knowledge or tools to protect themselves effectively.One of the key takeaways from the event is the importance of enhancing digital literacy. Users must be equipped with the skills and understanding necessary to navigate the digital landscape safely. This goes beyond just knowing how to avoid phishing scams or create strong passwords; it’s about fostering a deeper awareness of the risks inherent in our digital lives and how to manage them.Education and awareness campaigns are crucial, but they must be supported by user-friendly security tools that make it easier for people to protect themselves. The goal is to create a security environment where the average user is both informed and empowered, reducing the likelihood of human error and strengthening the overall security posture. A Call for Continuous ImprovementIf there’s one thing that Black Hat 2024 made abundantly clear, it’s that cybersecurity is a journey, not a destination. The landscape is constantly shifting, and what works today may not be sufficient tomorrow. This requires a commitment to continuous improvement—both in terms of technology and strategy.Organizations must foster a culture of learning, where staying informed about the latest threats and security practices is a priority. This means not only investing in the latest tools and technologies but also in the people who use them. Training, upskilling, and encouraging a mindset of curiosity and adaptability are all essential components of a successful cybersecurity strategy. Looking Ahead: The Future of CybersecurityAs I reflect on the insights and discussions from Black Hat 2024, I’m reminded of the critical role cybersecurity plays in our society. It’s not just about protecting data or systems; it’s about safeguarding the trust that underpins our digital world. As we look to the future, it’s clear that cybersecurity will continue to be a central concern—not just for businesses and governments, but for individuals and communities as well.The challenges we face are significant, but so are the opportunities. By embracing innovation, fostering collaboration, and empowering users, we can build a more secure digital future. It’s a future where technology serves humanity, where security is an enabler rather than a barrier, and where we can navigate the complexities of the digital age with confidence.Black Hat 2024 was a powerful reminder of the importance of this work. It’s a challenge that requires all of us—security professionals, technologists, and everyday users—to play our part. Together, we can meet the challenges of today and prepare for the threats of tomorrow, ensuring that our digital future is one we can all trust and thrive in.The End ...of this story. This piece of writing represents the peculiar results of an interactive collaboration between Human Cognition and Artificial Intelligence._____________________________________Marco Ciappelli is the host of the Redefining Society Podcast, part of the ITSPmagazine Podcast Network—which he co-founded with his good friend Sean Martin—where you may just find some of these topics being discussed. You can also learn more about Marco on his personal website: marcociappelli.comTAPE3, which is me, is the Artificial Intelligence for ITSPmagazine, created to function as a guide, writing assistant, researcher, and brainstorming partner to those who adventure at and beyond the Intersection Of Technology, Cybersecurity, And Society.________________________________________________________________Enjoy, think, share with others, and subscribe to the "Musing On Society & Technology" newsletter on LinkedIn. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Guests: L Jean Camp, Professor, Luddy School of Computing, Informatics, and Engineering, Indiana University [@IUBloomington]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/ljean/At BlackHat | https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/briefings/schedule/speakers.html#l-jean-camp-37968Dalya Manatova, Associate Instructor/Ph.D. Student, Luddy School of Computing, Informatics, and Engineering, Indiana University [@IUBloomington]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/dalyapraz/At BlackHat | https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/briefings/schedule/speakers.html#dalya-manatova-48133____________________________Hosts: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinMarco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Episode NotesIn this Chats on the Road episode of the On Location with Sean and Marco podcast series, hosts Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli engage in an insightful conversation about the intricacies of modern cybercrime, specifically focusing on ransomware gangs. The discussion revolves around the research conducted by their guests, L Jean Camp, a scholar specializing in the economics of security and privacy, and Dalya Manatova, a PhD student studying security informatics and the organizational social dynamics of e-crime.The episode explores how ransomware gangs, such as the notorious Conti group, operate much like legitimate businesses. These criminal organizations exhibit structured hierarchies, recruit testers who may not even realize they are part of an illegal operation, and employ professional negotiation tactics with their victims. The guests emphasize that the threat posed by these gangs is often misunderstood; rather than facing advanced government operations, most individuals and organizations are dealing with commoditized cyber-attacks that follow business-like procedures.Jean and Dalya share intriguing details about their methodology, including the linguistic and discourse analyses used to map out the relationships and organizational structures within these criminal groups. These analyses reveal the complexities and resilience of the organizations, shedding light on how they maintain operational efficiency and manage internal communications. For instance, the researchers discuss the use of jargon like “cat” to refer to crypto wallets, a nuance that highlights the challenges of interpreting cybercriminal chatter.Additionally, the conversation touches on the implications of these findings for cybersecurity practices and the broader business landscape. Jean notes the importance of information sharing and understanding the flow of chatter within and between criminal organizations. This awareness can empower defenders by providing them with better tools and methods to anticipate and counteract these threats.Overall, the episode provides a comprehensive look at the sophisticated nature of ransomware gangs and the importance of interdisciplinary research in understanding and combating cybercrime. The session mentioned in the episode, "Relationships Matter: Reconstructing the Organizational and Social Structure of a Ransomware Gang," is slated for Wednesday, August 7th at Black Hat, promising to offer more extensive insights into this critical issue.Be sure to follow our Coverage Journey and subscribe to our podcasts!____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsLevelBlue: https://itspm.ag/levelblue266f6cCoro: https://itspm.ag/coronet-30deSquareX: https://itspm.ag/sqrx-l91Britive: https://itspm.ag/britive-3fa6AppDome: https://itspm.ag/appdome-neuv____________________________Follow our Black Hat USA  2024 coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/black-hat-usa-2024-hacker-summer-camp-2024-event-coverage-in-las-vegasOn YouTube: 📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllRo9DcHmre_45ha-ru7cZMQBe sure to share and subscribe!____________________________ResourcesRelationships Matter: Reconstructing the Organizational and Social Structure of a Ransomware Gang: https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/briefings/schedule/#relationships-matter-reconstructing-the-organizational-and-social-structure-of-a-ransomware-gang-39725An Argument for Linguistic Expertise in Cyberthreat Analysis: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372244795_An_Argument_for_Linguistic_Expertise_in_Cyberthreat_Analysis_LOLSec_in_Russian_Language_eCrime_LandscapeBuilding and Testing a Network of Social Trust in an Underground Forum: Robust Connections and Overlapping Criminal Domains: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371353386_Building_and_Testing_a_Network_of_Social_Trust_in_an_Underground_Forum_Robust_Connections_and_Overlapping_Criminal_DomainsUsable Security Lab: https://usablesecurity.net/Learn more about Black Hat USA  2024: https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/____________________________Catch all of our event coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/technology-cybersecurity-society-humanity-conference-and-event-coverageTo see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastTo see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring our event coverage with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplcWant to tell your Brand Story as part of our event coverage?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/evtcovbrf Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. 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Guest: Jason Healey, Senior Research Scholar, Cyber Conflict Studies, SIPA at Columbia University [@Columbia]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonhealey/At BlackHat: https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/briefings/schedule/speakers.html#jason-healey-31682____________________________Hosts: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/sean-martinMarco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli____________________________Episode NotesOpening Remarks:Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli set the stage with their signature banter, creating an inviting atmosphere for a deep dive into cybersecurity. Marco introduces a philosophical question about measuring success and improvement in the field, leading seamlessly into their conversation with Jason Healey.Meet the Expert:Sean introduces Jason Healey, a senior research scholar at Columbia University and a former military cybersecurity leader with extensive experience, including roles at the Pentagon and the White House. Jason shares his excitement for Black Hat 2024 and the anniversary celebrations of ITSPmagazine, expressing anticipation for the discussions ahead.The Role of Defense in Cybersecurity:Jason previews his journey from military service to academia, posing the critical question, “Is defense winning?” He provides a historical perspective, noting that cybersecurity challenges have been present for decades. Despite significant investments and efforts, attackers often seem to maintain an edge. This preview sets the stage for a deeper exploration of how to measure success in defense, which he plans to address in detail at the conference.Shifting the Balance:Jason highlights the need for a comprehensive framework to evaluate the effectiveness of defense mechanisms. He introduces the concept of metrics like “mean time to detect,” suggesting that these can help gauge progress over time. Jason plans to discuss the importance of understanding system-wide dynamics at Black Hat, emphasizing that cybersecurity is about continual improvement rather than quick fixes.Economic Costs and Broader Impacts:Sean shifts the discussion to the economic aspects of cybersecurity, a topic Jason is set to explore further at the event. Jason notes that while financial implications are substantial, other indicators, such as the frequency of states declaring emergencies due to cyber incidents, provide a broader view of the impact. He underscores the need to address disparities in cybersecurity protection, pointing out that not everyone has access to the same level of defense capabilities.Community and Collaboration:Marco and Jason discuss the importance of community involvement in improving cybersecurity. Jason stresses the value of shared metrics and continuous data analysis, calling for collective efforts to build a robust defense against evolving threats. This theme of collaboration will be a key focus in his upcoming session.Looking Forward:As they wrap up, Sean and Marco express their anticipation for Jason’s session at Black Hat 2024. They encourage the audience to join in, engage with the topics discussed, and contribute to the ongoing conversation on cybersecurity.Conclusion:Sean concludes by thanking Jason for his insights and highlighting the importance of the upcoming Black Hat sessions. He invites listeners to follow ITSPmagazine's coverage for more expert discussions and insights into the field of cybersecurity.For more insightful sessions and expert talks on cybersecurity, make sure to follow ITSPmagazine's Black Hat coverage. Stay safe and stay informed!Be sure to follow our Coverage Journey and subscribe to our podcasts!____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsLevelBlue: https://itspm.ag/levelblue266f6cCoro: https://itspm.ag/coronet-30deSquareX: https://itspm.ag/sqrx-l91Britive: https://itspm.ag/britive-3fa6AppDome: https://itspm.ag/appdome-neuv____________________________Follow our Black Hat USA  2024 coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/black-hat-usa-2024-hacker-summer-camp-2024-event-coverage-in-las-vegasOn YouTube: 📺 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllRo9DcHmre_45ha-ru7cZMQBe sure to share and subscribe!____________________________ResourcesIs Defense Winning? (Session): https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/briefings/schedule/index.html#is-defense-winning-40663Learn more about Black Hat USA  2024: https://www.blackhat.com/us-24/____________________________Catch all of our event coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/technology-cybersecurity-society-humanity-conference-and-event-coverageTo see and hear more Redefining CyberSecurity content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-cybersecurity-podcastTo see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastAre you interested in sponsoring our event coverage with an ad placement in the podcast?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/podadplcWant to tell your Brand Story as part of our event coverage?Learn More 👉 https://itspm.ag/evtcovbrf Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Guest: ✨ Lennart Maschmeyer, Senior Researcher at Center for Security Studies (CSS) at ETH Zurich [@CSS_ETHZurich]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennartmaschmeyer/____________________________Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli_____________________________This Episode’s SponsorsBlackCloak 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbcwebBugcrowd 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbgcweb_____________________________Episode IntroductionWelcome to another thought-provoking episode of the Redefining Society Podcast! I'm Marco Ciappelli, and today, we're diving deep into the intricacies of subversion, cyber warfare, and manipulation techniques with our special guest, Lennart Maschmeyer. As a Senior Researcher at the Center for Security Studies at ETH Zurich, Lennart brings a nuanced perspective on how technology intersects with international politics and conflict.Setting the SceneThis episode begins with an introduction highlighting the excitement of being in the same time zone as Lennart Maschmeyer, an expert in subversion and cyber conflicts, joining us from Zurich. The picturesque setting of ETH Zurich serves as a backdrop for our exploration of complex topics such as cyber warfare and manipulation techniques.The Path to CybersecurityLennart shares his unconventional journey into cybersecurity and international relations. Originally a photographer with aspirations of becoming a surgeon, Lennart eventually found his passion in political science and cybersecurity. He holds a PhD in Political Science from the University of Toronto and an MPhil in International Relations from the University of Oxford. His research focuses on the subversive nature of cyber power, particularly its operational challenges and strategic limitations.Subversion and Cyber Warfare: Historical and Modern PerspectivesA key discussion in this episode revolves around the concept of subversion. Lennart emphasizes that while the mechanisms of subversion aren't entirely new, the technology involved has evolved. Subversion involves finding and exploiting vulnerabilities within systems to manipulate them. Lennart argues that this method, though theoretically powerful, faces practical challenges.Drawing comparisons between historical subversion techniques during the Cold War and modern-day cyber operations, Lennart notes that both forms of subversion rely on similar mechanisms, despite differences in technology. Whether it was Cold War-era spies infiltrating societies or modern-day hackers manipulating computer systems, the essence of subversion remains the same: exploiting vulnerabilities to achieve political goals without overt violence.Notable Cyber Operations and Their ImpactThroughout the discussion, Lennart references several notable cyber operations, such as attempts to disable power grids in Ukraine and large-scale disinformation campaigns. Despite the initial hype surrounding these operations, their practical impact often fell short of strategic goals. Operations like NotPetya spread uncontrollably, sometimes causing collateral damage, highlighting the inherent unpredictability and limitations of such cyber initiatives.The Future of Cyber Warfare and Traditional SubversionAs Lennart delves deeper into his research findings, he underscores that while cyber operations can have significant local and temporary effects, they often lack the capacity to decisively change political outcomes on a larger scale. Traditional subversion techniques, though less flashy, often prove more effective.Moving forward, Lennart suggests that we must remain vigilant against both traditional and modern subversive threats. The focus should not just be on sophisticated cyber attacks but also on more traditional forms of espionage and subversion. The orchestration of various tactics, including cyber operations, disinformation, and direct sabotage, represents the real threat—a nuanced blend of old and new.ConclusionIn closing, Lennart and I reflect on the importance of understanding the broader context in which these technologies operate. We emphasize that technology alone doesn't change the world; it's how people use it that matters. Recognizing the potential and limitations of both cyber and traditional subversion is crucial for navigating the evolving landscape of international conflict and security.This episode of the Redefining Society Podcast sheds light on the complexities of subversion in the digital age. For a detailed exploration of these themes and more, be sure to tune into the full conversation.Stay connected for more insightful discussions on how technology is shaping—and being shaped by—our society._____________________________Resources ____________________________To see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcastWatch the webcast version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllTUoWMGGQHlGVZA575VtGr9Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/advertise-on-itspmagazine-podcast Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.