

21 Hats Podcast
21 Hats
The 21 Hats Podcast presents an authentic weekly conversation with small business owners who are remarkably willing to share what’s working for them and what isn’t. Unlike many business podcasts, which tend to talk to highly successful entrepreneurs whose struggles are in the past, the 21 Hats Podcast features a rotating cast of business owners who are still very much in the trenches fighting the good fight. Every week, our regulars gather to talk about the kinds of important issues many owners won’t even discuss behind closed doors: whether their businesses are as profitable as they should be, whether they are willing to give up some control to an investor in order to grow faster, why they had to lay off employees, how they wound up with way too much inventory, why they don’t have a succession plan, and even why they are concerned about their own mental health. Visit 21hats.com to hear all of our podcast episodes, read episode transcripts, and learn more. The show is produced by Jess Thoubboron, founder of Blank Word.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 20, 2023 • 22min
Dashboard: The Price of Tipping, Virtual Offices, and Men’s Underwear
This week, Gene Marks and Loren Feldman talk about why tipping is a terrible system that we probably will never change, why Gene believes giving up a real office for a virtual office didn’t save him money, and what the purchase of mens underwear can tell us about the economy. Plus: Gene says there are 27 things businesses can do with ChatGPT right now—although he does offer a few caveats.

Feb 14, 2023 • 53min
ESOPs Are Great. But Not for Me
Last week, Jay Goltz continued his exploration of employee ownership, flying to Portland to meet up with Shawn Busse and Jim Kalb, a friend of 21 Hats who has already sold a portion of his business to his employees. The three owners planned to attend a conference promoting employee stock ownership, but things went somewhat awry. Jay and Shawn left the conference early, Jim canceled his flight, and as has happened before in his brushes with ESOP professionals, Jay walked away feeling convinced—convinced, that is, that an ESOP probably isn’t right for him. Two days later, we taped this podcast episode, which quickly turned into one of the more raucohttps://21hats.com/us conversations you are likely to hear about a somewhat technical business topic—although we did manage to find some clarity in the end. In Jay’s words, we agreed to agree.Along the way, we confronted quite a few relevant questions, such as, do ESOPs have to be so confusing? Are the professionals who pitch ESOPs trying to make them seem complicated? If Jay wants to sell 30 percent of his business to his employees but continue running it, how much control would he have to give up? Will an ESOP make life easier or harder for Jay’s two sons in the business? Instead of an ESOP, could Jay accomplish most of what he wants to accomplish by setting up a profit-sharing bonus plan through his 401(k)? Hanging over the conversation was a larger, more philosophical issue: What exactly do business owners owe their employees? And whatever those obligations are, do they extend beyond the sale of the business? Do they extend beyond the grave?

Feb 13, 2023 • 23min
Dashboard: The Good News About Gen Z
This week, Gene Marks and Loren Feldman talk about what Gen Z values in a job. The research suggests it’s not the job -- it’s more about people and meaning. And that’s good news for smaller businesses, because those are things they can offer. But you might want to emphasize that in your job descriptions. Plus: Is this recession happening or not? And what will ChatGPT’s upending of search mean for all of the businesses who’ve been investing in SEO? They’re not going to be happy, says Gene.

Feb 7, 2023 • 43min
Walking Away From a Salary
This week, in episode 142, Sarah Segal tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz why she’s decided to take her public relations business back after selling it two years ago to a larger firm so it could handle the back-end stuff and allow her to focus on public relations. For Sarah, the immediate result of the decision to break away has been an exhausting few months starting over, including reincorporating, finding health insurance, and reducing her own pay. Meanwhile, Jay suggests an old-school marketing tactic that involves leveraging an envelope, a stamp, and the post office. And Shawn explains how he created a sales process that has allowed him to remove himself from day-to-day sales. Plus, a listener asks the three owners, “When do you know if you've made it? Or do you never know?” Shawn, Jay, and Sarah—three owners at very different stages of building a business—offer three very different answers.

Feb 6, 2023 • 23min
Dashboard: So You Think Building a Business in the U.S. Is Hard?
Well, it is, but after spending a month in London, Gene Marks says inflation, regulation, and entitled employees make it even worse there. In fact, Gene says he’s going to stop complaining about conditions in the U.S. (We’ll see.) Plus: why Gene thinks even small businesses should offer unlimited PTO, how to make sure you don’t fall prey to one of the Employee Retention Tax Credit scams, and Gene’s list of things a small business can do with ChatGPT.

Jan 31, 2023 • 50min
How Much Profit Should Your Business Make?
This week, in episode 141, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Jay Goltz go right to the bottom line. Shawn points out how easy it is for businesses to fool themselves into thinking they’re more profitable than they really are. Paul talks about how margins can vary from year to year, especially if an owner decides to invest in improving the business—as Paul’s doing right now. Jay says he’s long sought a 10-percent profit margin, but so far, he hasn’t managed to get there. Plus: Shawn explains how he solved his accounts receivable problem. And have you looked at the 401(k) accounts of your employees lately? If not, there’s a good chance you’re going to find that they’re not saving a whole lot. Is that just the employee’s problem, or is it also the owner’s problem?

Jan 30, 2023 • 20min
Dashboard: Getting an SBA Loan With No Down Payment
This week, 21 Hats columnist and finance expert Ami Kassar assesses the state of small business lending with Loren Feldman. Among other things, they discuss why it’s important to manage your EIDL loan carefully, how much of a line of credit every business should have, how to get a zero-percent-down loan from the SBA, and how much progress Ami has made toward firing himself.

Jan 24, 2023 • 49min
Why Isn’t This Product Selling?
This week, in episode 140, Shawn Busse, Liz Picarazzi, and Sarah Segal talk about how long to keep trying when a product isn’t selling the way you expected. For Liz, the problem product is her package locker, which is designed to defeat porch pirates but hasn’t really taken off—especially considering how widespread the concern is. Could the glitter-bomb guy be the answer to Liz’s marketing challenge? Or is it time for her to back off? Plus: In the age of Zoom and remote workers, what have the owners figured out about running effective meetings? And if you're pricing a range of services in a proposal, do you price your offering a la carte? Do you always charge the same prices? And is there a way to ease a client into a monthly retainer?

Jan 23, 2023 • 22min
Dashboard: ChatGPT, Salesforce CRM, and the Employee-Contractor Dilemma
This week, Gene Marks and Loren Feldman discuss an “inconvenient truth” about Salesforce CRM, which is that it’s probably not right for most non-corporate businesses. Already using it? Gene explains how to assess whether it’s worth making the switch to a more affordable platform. Plus: Gene thinks the Department of Labor’s new worker-classification law will be a disaster but suggests some fixes. Gene also has some thoughts about ChatGPT: real potential, not there yet.

Jan 20, 2023 • 43min
Bonus Episode: A New Way to Sell Your Business
Learn about Teamshares, a company that buys struggling businesses from retiring owners and turns their employees into owners to address income inequality. Discusses challenges and lessons from acquiring over 60 businesses. Highlights the importance of recruiting and training leaders, maintaining relationships with former owners, and implementing employee stock ownership plans. Emphasizes the challenges of running a small business and the need for continuous learning, good financial practices, and fair compensation for employees.