21 Hats Podcast

This week, two special guests who have built highly successful companies talk about what they ultimately plan to do with those companies. Ari Weinzweig is co-founder of Zingerman’s Community of Businesses, a collection of mostly food-related companies that are an iconic part of Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brad Herrmann is co-founder of Text-Em-All, a software firm based near Dallas that helps organizations deliver personalized, informational, and emergency messages by text and by phone. Both Zingerman’s and Text-Em-All consider themselves purpose-driven. Both practice open-book management. And so, not surprisingly, the founders of both companies took a hard look at selling to an employee stock ownership plan, or ESOP, in the hope that the cultures they’ve created might live on. But both companies, independently, soured on the notion of creating an ESOP, one after spending more than $200,000 and coming within a week of closing the deal. And now, both have settled on a little known alternative, what’s called a perpetual purpose trust. So far, only a handful of companies have tried to create a purpose trust for this purpose, but Zingerman’s and Text-Em-All are taking the leap. As both Ari and Brad acknowledge, they’re kind of figuring it out as they go.Show Notes:In our conversation, Brad and Ari mention several places where businesses can learn more about perpetual purpose trusts, including Alternative Ownership Advisors, Common Trust, and an attorney, Christopher Michael.Ari has written about the Zingerman’s perpetual trust in his own newsletter.

This week, Gene Marks takes Loren Feldman through a case study of how easy it is even for profitable businesses to get caught in a cash crunch. The problem, Gene explains, is that business owners often have to pay taxes on earnings that have yet to reach the owners. Where does the money go? To inventory, to capital expenditures, to accounts receivable among other places. How can owners avoid the crunch? By staying on top of their finances.

This week, in episode 151, our conversation starts with Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz trying to understand why CEOs keep going viral for their misguided attempts to rally the troops. Shawn suspects CEO screeds have always existed—they just haven’t been recorded. He also thinks they tend to come more from public company CEOs who are beholden to shareholders. Jay thinks they’re just morons. “I really don't understand how someone could be smart enough to run a big company like that,” he says, “and be so completely ignorant. It's shocking to me.” Of course, CEOs of both publicly owned companies and privately owned companies do have to do unpleasant things sometimes, but Shawn and Jay say they’ve learned from their own experiences handling layoffs and recessions. “Do we have to go out of our way to be callous about it?” Jay asks. “I don't think so.” Plus: the very different ways Shawn and Jay manage their hiring processes. Oh, and, what would happen if Jay applied for a job at Shawn’s business?

Yes, demand is tapering, and a recession is looming, Gene Marks tells Loren Feldman, but this is a great economy and a great country and people should stop complaining! Plus: Gene explains how some business owners get the state to pay for their employee training, how restaurants are finally adopting technology, and how to make sure your employees aren’t stealing from you. One tip: if you think an employee is stealing from you, send the employee on vacation.

This week, in episode 150, Stephanie Stuckey tells Paul Downs and Liz Picarazzi how she and her partners have taken their business from $2 million in annual revenue to more than $13 million in three years. What’s frustrating, she says, is that she could be selling a lot more pecan snacks and candies. But with production at capacity, she’s not doing much sales outreach until they can fully revamp their manufacturing operation, which will require a significant investment. “I spend my days doing financial paperwork,” Stephanie says. Plus: Liz explains why her business picks up when the weather warms up, and after a slow start, Paul gets a boost from a big manufacturer.

This week, in episode 149, Jay Goltz tells William Vanderbloemen that even with an inventory glut, a cash crunch, and a weakening economy, he’s not going to stop buying goods for his home store: “It's kind of like cutting Samson's hair,” Jay tells us. “I don't want to mess with telling the buyer, ‘Stop buying stuff.’ Because that's the business we’re in.” All of which has Jay feeling some pressure, but he’s very glad he’s been maintaining a credit line equivalent to 10 percent of sales. Plus: William explains how hiring can go wrong even at a staffing company and how he managed to raise his prices without actually raising his prices.

Gene Marks tells Loren Feldman he’s not seeing it yet, but there’s reason to believe it’s coming. Gene also discusses the best password managers for businesses and explains why addressing the mental health of employees is a financial issue as well as an ethical issue and offers some suggestions. Plus: he says he expects unlimited paid time off to remain a much-sought-after benefit for employees even though in many ways it favors employers.

This week, in episode 148, Paul Downs, Sarah Segal, and Laura Zander discuss how they think about the possibility of recession: Do they proceed with planned hires? Do they continue to spend on marketing? Do they look for unexpected opportunities? In addition, Sarah, having recently taken back ownership of her PR firm, asks Paul and Laura how they pay themselves, how much cash they keep on hand, and whether they think she should expand her offerings to include digital marketing. Plus: Laura, who’s acquired several businesses over the years, explains what she looks for, how she decides how much to pay, and why she’s come to see acquisitions as necessary for the survival of Jimmy Beans Wool. As usual, all three owners are remarkably generous about sharing their thinking and even their numbers.

This week, Mel Gravely, CEO of Triversity Construction in Cincinnati, tells Loren Feldman why he still sees a recession looming—even though 2023 has been good so far, and he still has a solid backlog. He also talks about how he’s addressing the industry’s long-term labor issues, how Triversity lands new business, and what he’s doing to prepare for that recession.

This week, in episode 147, Paul Downs tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz that his year has not gotten off to a great start. This was supposed to be the year that Paul unleashed a bold, new marketing campaign that would put his business on an entirely new trajectory—and perhaps it still will be. But for the moment, his revenue has fallen considerably short of his expectations, which has presented him with an unwelcome choice: Should he hold-off on the marketing campaign? Or should he cut his own salary? Along with discussing Paul’s decision, we also talk about the process of rethinking a website, how best to make use of LinkedIn—it’s a gold mine for both business development and recruiting, says Shawn—and why Paul and Shawn continue to perform their own HR chores.