
21 Hats Podcast
The 21 Hats Podcast presents an authentic weekly conversation with small business owners who are remarkably willing to share what’s working for them and what isn’t. Unlike many business podcasts, which tend to talk to highly successful entrepreneurs whose struggles are in the past, the 21 Hats Podcast features a rotating cast of business owners who are still very much in the trenches fighting the good fight. Every week, our regulars gather to talk about the kinds of important issues many owners won’t even discuss behind closed doors: whether their businesses are as profitable as they should be, whether they are willing to give up some control to an investor in order to grow faster, why they had to lay off employees, how they wound up with way too much inventory, why they don’t have a succession plan, and even why they are concerned about their own mental health. Visit 21hats.com to hear all of our podcast episodes, read episode transcripts, and learn more. The show is produced by Jess Thoubboron, founder of Blank Word.
Latest episodes

Jul 1, 2024 • 23min
Dashboard: SCOTUS Unleashes a Tsunami of Regulatory Chaos
This week, Gene Marks and Loren Feldman discuss the Supreme Court’s decision, released on Friday, that takes authority to interpret laws passed by Congress away from federal agencies and gives it to judges. Whatever you think of the merits of the ruling, Gene points out, it creates tremendous uncertainty for businesses trying to comply with the law. For example, a new overtime rule is supposed to go into effect today. Should businesses start following it, Gene asks? Or wait to see what happens with pending litigation?

Jun 25, 2024 • 49min
This Is Not How This Ends
This week, in episode 201, we bring you what we’re calling an Entrepreneurial Fish Bowl with Chris Hutchinson. As you may remember, we recorded one of these at our 21 Hats Live event in Fort Worth, where I shared some of my challenges trying to build 21 Hats and got feedback from the group. We recorded that conversation and turned it into a podcast episode. This time, we’re doing the same thing except it will be Jaime Echt, founder and CEO of The Crafters Workshop, who is going to explain her challenges to a virtual group of 21 Hats entrepreneurs. As you’ll hear, Jaime’s challenges are real: Her sales are down. Her customers are aging. Her lease is up. And she’s not sure what she should do next. We’re going to see if a group of 21 Hats Founding Members can offer some support and advice.

Jun 24, 2024 • 20min
Dashboard: Yes, of Course, AI Will Eliminate Jobs
Companies don’t like to admit it, says Gene Marks, but that’s kind of the point. So far, it’s mostly big companies with millions to spend that have been able to replace humans with bots, but he believes smaller businesses will soon be doing the same thing. Should we be worried about that? He doesn’t think so. Plus: Why a lot of businesses still don’t offer 401(k) plans. And if job candidates want to bring a parent along to an interview, Gene says he’s fine with that.

Jun 18, 2024 • 52min
What Will Businesses Do If SEO Dies?
This week, in episode 200, Shawn Busse, Liz Picarazzi, and Jaci Russo talk about how the marketing world is turning upside down. For decades, business owners have treated search engine optimization as something of a religion. They may not have been able to explain it, but they had faith that, if they obeyed the rules, Google would discover their sites and rank them. But search engines are getting a lot less generous about sharing links, and Shawn fears there’s an apocalypse coming for businesses that rely too heavily on SEO. Jaci’s a little more optimistic: “There'll be some other places to go get free traffic,” she says. “There always are.” Plus: Liz gives us an update on her recent trip to Vietnam in search of a contract manufacturer. And in a case study ripped right from the subreddit headlines, I ask the three owners: What do you do if a loyal, hard-working employee starts a side hustle selling a product that doesn’t compete with your product but looks a whole lot like it?

Jun 17, 2024 • 25min
Dashboard: Why Business-Book Advice Doesn’t Work for You
This week, Shawn Busse talks about why the business-advice books we’ve all read often fall flat. Shawn says it’s because much of what they suggest is predicated on a traditional model of a business that makes widgets. As a result, that advice may work fine if you are a manufacturer, but it’s far less likely to help if your product or service is more customized. That may seem obvious but the thinking Shawn describes remains deeply embedded in the small business mindset. One example: the implementation of highly regimented processes. It can be great for some businesses, stifling for others. (You can also read “Rethinking Your Value Model,” an article Shawn wrote on this topic.)

Jun 11, 2024 • 56min
I Decided to Slow Our Growth
This week, in episode 199, Jennifer Kerhin tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz that she finally managed to take her first real vacation since starting her business almost 20 years ago. The vacation is part of a decision she made last year to regroup a bit, in part by backing off on her sales and marketing outreach. The goal is to give her team and herself a bit of a respite while they catch their breath and while Jennifer institutes processes that will improve operations. Of course, that raises an obvious question: Will she be able to turn the growth back on when the time comes? Plus: Shawn and Jay explain how they’ve eliminated negotiation from their hiring regimens. And all three debate who’s really responsible when owners pay for a marketing plan that doesn’t work: Is it the salesperson who pitched the plan? Or the owner who fell for the pitch?

Jun 10, 2024 • 22min
Dashboard: Can You DIY a Business Acquisition?
This week, Tracy Bech, who is co-author of the “60 Minute CFO” and who has bought and sold businesses herself, offers some guidelines on how to approach an acquisition. Some of it is looking at the numbers, of course. Some of it is understanding the story behind those numbers. And some of it is psychological, controlling your emotions and maintaining a willingness to walk away from the deal if something doesn’t break right. And by the way, Tracy says, it’s never a bad idea to use the same lens to analyze the performance of your own business.

Jun 4, 2024 • 48min
The Year So Far? It’s Difficult Out There
This week, in episode 198, we get updates from Laura Zander, Sarah Segal, and Jay Goltz. Laura wonders whether the time she’s put into integrating her latest acquisition might have been better spent focusing on her core businesses. Sarah, who has shifted to pursuing smaller clients, asks Laura and Jay to articulate the PR pitch that would interest them. But how do you evaluate the effectiveness of a PR campaign? Does it have to generate sales? Plus: Jay explains why he views confronting his current business challenges as a matter of triage. He also says that if he could write a check for $200,000 and solve his technology problems, he would do it in a heartbeat. Any takers out there?

Jun 3, 2024 • 27min
Dashboard: Gene Marks Says CEOs Will Not Be Replaced By AI
This week, Gene responds to a New York Times article suggesting that CEOs should be among those worrying about whether artificial intelligence will take their jobs. For one thing, companies could save a lot of money replacing their leaders with bots. But Gene’s not buying it—although he does see Microsoft and Google making big progress with their AI offerings, so much so that he’s adjusting the services his own business offers. He says it’s time for owners to start paying more attention to AI.

May 28, 2024 • 48min
How to Sell a Business That Won’t Sell
We’re calling it a We-SOP. The term, coined by Jay Goltz, refers to a business transition that is something of a do-it-yourself ESOP, or employee stock ownership plan, but without the expense and complication and debt of a full ESOP. It’s a transition that lets owners get money out of what has been their life’s work. It’s a transition that lets loyal employees keep their jobs and preserve the company’s culture. And it’s a promising solution for the Silver Tsunami of retiring Baby Boomers because it can provide a sales path even for owners who have never managed to extricate themselves from their day-to-day operations. And in this week’s episode, we take you through an example of how it can work. Jay introduces us to Jill and Paul Choma, co-owners of a business, Gilded Moon Framing, that Jay recently guided through the We-SOP process. As you’ll hear, all three believe that what has worked—at least so far—for Jill and Paul could also work for many other business owners.