Inverse Podcast

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This third conversation discusses Chapter Two of Who Will Be a Witness with minister and author Dominique DuBois Gilliard. Dominique DuBois Gilliard is the Director of Racial Righteousness and Reconciliation for the Love Mercy Do Justice (LMDJ) initiative of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC). He is the author of Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice that Restores, which won the 2018 Book of the Year Award for InterVarsity Press. Gilliard also serves on the board of directors for the Christian Community Development Association and Evangelicals for Justice. In 2015, he was selected as one of the ECC’s “40 Under 40” leaders to watch, and the Huffington Post named him one of the “Black Christian Leaders Changing the World.” An ordained minister, Gilliard has served in pastoral ministry in Atlanta, Chicago, and Oakland. He was executive pastor of New Hope Covenant Church in Oakland, California and also served in Oakland as the associate pastor of Convergence Covenant Church. He was also a campus minister at North Park University and the racial righteousness director for ECC’s ministry initiatives in the Pacific Southwest Conference. Gilliard earned a bachelor’s degree in African American Studies from Georgia State University and a master’s degree in history from East Tennessee State University, with an emphasis on race, gender, and class in the United States. He also earned an MDiv from North Park Seminary, where he served as an adjunct professor teaching Christian ethics, theology, and reconciliation. Follow Dominque on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/DDGilliard) @DDGilliard and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/dominiquedgilliard/) @dominiquedgilliard Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This first conversation discusses Chapter One of Who Will Be a Witness with activist and author, D.L Mayfield D. L. Mayfield lives and writes on the outskirts of Portland, Oregan with her husband and two small children. Her first book of essays, *Assimilate or Go Home: Notes from a Failed Missionary on Rediscovering Faith* was released by HarperOne in 2016. Her second book, *The Myth of the American Dream: Reflections on Affluence, Autonomy, Safety, and Power* was released in April 2020. Her writing has appeared in a variety of places, including *McSweeneys, Christianity Today, Sojourners, The Washington Post, Image Journal, Vox, and The Rumpus*, among many others. She has been very active in the BLM protests in Portland. Her previous conversation entitled The Bad News of Jesus (and Covid 19) on the Inverse Podcast can be found [here](http://https://inverse.podiant.co/e/d-l-mayfield-the-bad-news-of-jesus-and-covid-19-385ff9a08d8eb8/). Follow D.L. Mayfield on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/d_l_mayfield) and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/d_l_mayfield/) @d_l_mayfield Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This first conversation discusses the Introduction of Who Will Be a Witness with activist, author, and speaker Shane Claiborne. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane’s books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, Common Prayer, Follow Me to Freedom, Jesus, Bombs and Ice Cream, Becoming the Answer to Our Prayers, Executing Grace, his classic The Irresistible Revolution, and his newest book, Beating Guns. He has been featured in a number of films including "Another World Is Possible" and "Ordinary Radicals." His books have been translated into more than a dozen languages. Shane speaks over one hundred times a year, nationally and internationally. His work has appeared in Esquire, SPIN, Christianity Today, TIME, and The Wall Street Journal, and he has been on everything from Fox News and Al Jazeera to CNN and NPR. He’s given academic lectures at Harvard, Princeton, Liberty, Duke, and Notre Dame. Shane speaks regularly at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe. Follow Shane on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/ShaneClaiborne). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

Marlena is a writer, deep thinker, and speaker who is passionate about the eternal implications of our life in God. In this conversation, Marlena explores Philippians 2:1-16 in light of her new book, "The Way Up Is Down: Becoming Yourself by Forgetting Yourself." In this book, Marlena describes the process of emptying herself that allows her to move upward toward God and become the true self that God calls her to. Drawing on the rich traditions of Eastern and Western Christian saints, she shares stories and insights that have enlivened her transformation. For Marlena, formation and justice always intertwine on the path to a balanced life of both action and contemplation. She is a lover of beauty - especially the beauty of her family, others, and creation. Marlena is a justice seeker—trying to overcome evil with good. She is most concerned with those who profess to follow Jesus but speak and behave so unlike him. She includes herself in the mix and therefore seeks to bridge the gap between what Christians profess to believe and how they live. She speaks regularly to congregations, university campuses, and to retreatants about the implications of following Jesus. Follow Marlena on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/MarlenaGraves) and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/marlena.graves/). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Nekeisha Alayna Alexis is a Black Trinidadian woman, academic-activist situated in the U.S.A. who has worked on a number of issues affecting marginalized communities, from anti-war organizing in New York City to the ongoing efforts to restore a local community center in Elkhart. She writes, publishes, and speaks on racism and white supremacy, intersectionality, and animal liberation. A theological Anabaptist with meaningful experiences in Catholic, non-denominational, and African Methodist Episcopal (AME) traditions, Nekeisha helps to maintain “Jesus Radicals”, which is focused on undoing oppressions from a framework of anarchist politics and liberative Christianity. Read more about Nekeisha's work [here](http://https://www.ambs.edu/about/people/749314/nekeisha-alayna-alexis). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Van Badham is Jordan Peterson’s favourite Marxist Christian to mock. Writer, Activist, co-host of the Weekly On Wednesday podcast and regular columnist for The Guardian, Van is a prolific voice for justice. In this episode, Drew and Jarrod discuss Luke 3:1-20 with Van, and discuss her faith, her love for Karl Marx, and her opposition to all forms of authoritarianism, as a Christian Marxist. Follow Van Badham on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/vanbadham/) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/vanbadham) @vanbadham Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

In this moment we need to hear from Pastor Sandra Van Opstal. Celebrity worship pastors using their social media to shut down people lifting up Amos. Other celebrity worship leaders lead revivals that provide the soundtrack for Trump-style white supremacy that risks more lives during a pandemic that has claimed the lives of 163,000 people in the U.S.A. already. All this to sing over the top of people protesting injustices, sometimes literally in the places people like George Floyd have been murdered, without the family’s permission or the communities consent. When we thought of people to speak into this reality, the incredible work, witness and writing of our friend Pastor Sandra Van Opstal came to mind. Sandra Van Opstal latest book is called “The Next Worship” and captures some of her international leadership to see the church embrace every tribe and tongue as we become a worshiping people pursuing justice. Pastor Sandra is a second-generation Latina and the co-founder and Executive Director of Chasing Justice and Executive Pastor for Grace and Peace Community. Sandra Van Opstal lives on the west-side of Chicago [USA] with her husband and two boys where she works as a liturgist, author, pastor and justice activist at the intersection of poverty, race and global mission. https://chasingjustice.com/about/ Featured on this episode: Pastor Sandra Van Opstal Drew Hart Jarrod McKenna

Patricia Ho is the founder of the Hong Kong Dignity Institute, a trauma informed approach to defending and advancing the rights of vulnerable people including asylum seekers/refugees, transgender persons, domestic helpers, sex workers and victims of human trafficking by challenging government policies and law. It’s a wonderful look behind the scenes at the spirituality that makes this human rights hero, mother of 3, law firm partner, wife to a pastor, and disciple of Jesus, tick.

As you can hear from Drew and Jarrod’s excitement, they *loved* this episode. Dr. Reggie Williams is a legend. His book **“Bonhoeffer’s Black Jesus: Harlem Renaissance Theology and an Ethic of Resistance”** is an award winning work reconsidering the shape of Dietrich Bonhoeffer resistance to the Nazi’s through the influence of his experience of the Black Church tradition in America. In short Dr. Reggie Williams makes clear Eric Metaxis full of skubala and you can’t understand Bonhoeffer without situating his witness as a wrestle with the Powers of white supremacy.

Theologian Dr Randy Woodley is a Keetoowah Cherokee First Nations elder, University professor, author and leader. He generously invites us to decolonise our Christology by seeing Christ as Creator, decolonise our understanding of the ‘kingdom’ by seeing it as the healing of the ‘community of creation’, and to decolonise our economics by taking Jesus’ Jubilee program seriously.