MinistryWatch Podcast

It has been a rough couple of decades for Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, but the school seems to have turned a corner and is headed in a new, positive direction. If the saga of SWBTS does indeed have a happy ending, or at least a thriving next chapter, a good bit of the credit can be attributed to one man: Dr. David Dockery. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you. LINKS MENTIONED IN TODAY’S PROGRAM: Dr. Russell Dilday Thomas Kidd’s excellent work, especially The Baptists In America, which he co-wrote with Barry Hankins. Mark Wingfield’s recent article “How Southwestern Seminary Is Bouncing Back From Financial Catastrophe” . 20 years of detailed financial audits.

On today’s program, the Southern Baptist Convention says the Department of Justice has wrapped up its investigation into the denomination’s handling of sexual abuse cases by its pastors and leaders. We’ll take a look. Also, evangelical ministry leaders hold a vigil to protest the Trump Administration’s defunding of foreign aid. Plus, one ministry whose funding was canceled…then reinstated…but its operations remain in limbo. We’ll have details. But first, Oklahoma’s state superintendent of public instruction is asking Americans to donate money to send Bibles into public school classrooms, though the Oklahoma Supreme Court has temporarily blocked his efforts. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today's program are Mark A. Kellner, Laura Erlanson, Kim Roberts, Jack Jenkins, Erik Tryggestad, Jessica Eturralde, Bob Smietana, Adelle M. Banks, Ed Stych, and Brittany Smith. A special thanks to Baptist Press and The Christian Chronicle for contributing material for this week’s podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:   FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, the Southern Baptist Convention says the Department of Justice has wrapped up its investigation into the denomination’s handling of sexual abuse cases by its pastors and leaders. We’ll take a look. Also, evangelical ministry leaders hold a vigil to protest the Trump Administration’s defunding of foreign aid. Plus, one ministry whose funding was canceled…then reinstated…but its operations remain in limbo. We’ll have details. Natasha: But first, Oklahoma’s state superintendent of public instruction is asking Americans to donate money to send Bibles into public school classrooms, though the Oklahoma Supreme Court has temporarily blocked his efforts. Warren: Oklahoma’s State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters is asking Americans to donate money to send leather-bound Bibles into Sooner State public school classrooms, now that the state legislature nixed a funding request. Walters told MinistryWatch in a telephone interview he has created the BiblesforOklahoma.com website, where $59.99 “God Bless The USA” Bibles can be purchased for schools. Natasha: The controversial volume pairs the King James Version of the Bible with the texts of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, and the Pledge of Allegiance. It also reproduces handwritten lyrics to Greenwood’s song “God Bless the USA.” Warren: Walters’s fundraising move launched less than 24 hours after Oklahoma’s Senate Appropriations Committee failed to recommend his budgetary request for $3 million to purchase Bibles for classrooms — and an additional $5 million to pay for potential litigation over the move. State Sen. Nancy Boren (D-Norman) told MinistryWatch she objects not only to the dollar amount requested but also to combining the Scriptures and America’s founding documents in a single volume. Natasha: Others have offered alternative options, but Walters didn’t seem interested Warren: The state senator, a Church of Christ member and an Abilene Christian University graduate, also said Gov. Kevin Stritt reminded people there’s a free smartphone app — YouBible — that’s created in Oklahoma. Boren also said other people were willing to donate “like, the real Bible, not the ‘Trump Bible,’ for free, and [Walters] didn’t want that.” The Oklahoma Supreme Court also as problems with Walter’s plan. The conservative court has temporarily blocked Walter’s attempt at fundraising, at least for now. Natasha: Next,

Here at MinistryWatch I have witnessed a tragic phenomenon over and over again. A young person begins the Christian life with passion and enthusiasm. But if that person doesn’t put down an anchor in the Gospel, he begins to drift. Before long, that young person finds himself, or herself, broken apart on the rocks, wondering, “How did this happen?” If that person was a leader in the church, the damage can spread far and wide. My guest today, Jared Wilson, says Scripture can answer the question “How did this happen?” He points to Hebrews 2:1 as a key. “Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.” His new book is called “Lest We Drift: Five Departure Dangers from the One True Gospel.” I’ve got to say that I have been looking forward to this book and my conversation with Jared, in part because I believe the topic is so vital, but also because I’ve been following Jared on social media for a while and have found him to be one of the increasingly rare sane voices there. So it was a pleasure to settle in to this conversation with him. Jared C. Wilson is assistant professor of pastoral ministry and author in residence at Midwestern Seminary in Kansas City. He is also pastor for preaching and the director of the Pastoral Training Center at Liberty Baptist Church, a Kansas City suburb. I’d like to remind you that during the month of March we are asking our regular listeners and readers to prayerfully consider becoming a monthly supporter of MinistryWatch. Monthly supporters play a special and badly needed role here at MinistryWatch. They give us a certain baseline of support that we know we can count on every month. That is a tremendous help in our planning. I also want to mention that as a monthly supporter you will receive ALL the donor premiums we offer during the year. To become a monthly supporter, just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Thanks to Amy Morris at Zondervan, as well as my assistant Carley Southerland, for arranging my interview with Jared Wilson. Please join me again on Friday when Natasha Cowden and I review the news of the week that we’ve been covering here at MinistryWatch. Until then, may God bless you.

On today’s program, the Trump administration cancels grants to refugee aid agencies…despite legal battles. We’ll take a look. And, a staggering 30 percent of nonprofits don’t survive a full decade—but when they go under, what happens to their assets? Our finance writer Shannon Cuthrell digs into the hidden risks and loopholes of nonprofit dissolutions. And, we’ve released our MinistryWatch list of the 50 Christian ministries receiving the largest government grants.  But first, the U-S Department of Justice has intervened on behalf of a Pennsylvania church trying to expand. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Jack Jenkins, Yonat Shimron, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, Tony Mator, Bruce Buursma, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha:  And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, the Trump administration cancels grants to refugee aid agencies…despite legal battles. We’ll take a look. And, a staggering 30 percent of nonprofits don’t survive a full decade—but when they go under, what happens to their assets? Our finance writer Shannon Cuthrell digs into the hidden risks and loopholes of nonprofit dissolutions. And, we’ve released our MinistryWatch list of the 50 Christian ministries receiving the largest government grants. Natasha: But first, the U-S Department of Justice has intervened on behalf of a Pennsylvania church trying to expand. Warren: On March 3, the Justice Department section for the Western District of Pennsylvania filed a statement of interest supporting the Hope Rising Community Church in its lawsuit against the Borough of Clarion. The church has outgrown its current facilities and wants to expand using a facility in the city’s commercial district. While Clarion allows nonreligious assemblies in the commercial district, such as theaters, the city would not approve the church’s zoning use variance request. Officials from the city allegedly said they didn’t “need any more churches” because of the loss of property taxes. Natasha: Hope Rising Community Church filed its lawsuit in November alleging the city was violating the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA), a federal law that protects houses of worship from discrimination in zoning. When Clarion filed a motion to dismiss the church’s claim, the Justice Department intervened. Warren: The city argued the church had not suffered any concrete injury as a result of Clarion’s actions, the DOJ argued that the city’s zoning code has “stymied [the church’s] efforts to buy and develop the only suitable property for the church in Clarion.” As of March 2024, the DOJ had opened over 155 formal investigations and filed nearly 30 lawsuits related to RLUIPA’s Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) land use provisions, and had filed 36 “friend-of-the-court” briefs addressing the interpretation and application of RLUIPA in privately-filed lawsuits. Natasha: Next, The Trump Administration cancels grants to refugee aid agencies. Warren: President Donald Trump’s administration is making moves to shutter a decades-old partnership between the government and a group of mostly religious organizations to resettle refugees, with the State Department abruptly canceling grant agreements with all the agencies despite ongoing legal battles. On Wednesday (Feb. 26), refugee resettlement organizations, such as Church World Service, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, and the U.S.

Bruce Bruinsma believes that 30 years is a long time to do nothing. He also says that this is precisely what a lot of Christian retirees do. The average lifespan of an American is about 78 years. But if that’s average, many live much longer. About 2 percent of Americans – more than 6 million people – are 85 or older. And more than 50 percent of Americans retire before the age of 65. Bruinsma believes we need a retirement reformation. We need to create an expectation that older people can make vital contributions to our churches, to Christian ministries, and to our communities. We shouldn’t segregate them in their own Sunday school classes, or send them off on Christian themed bus trips. They should play an active, leadership role in our churches. Promoting this message is what he has done with his retirement. Bruce Bruinsma is 83 years old, and still full steam ahead with ministry work. It was a pleasure to talk with him about why and how we can create a retirement reformation. To learn more about his organization, Retirement Reformation, just go to RetirementReformation.org

On today’s program, Dr. Burk Parsons of Ligonier Ministries has been suspended from pastoral duties at St. Andrew’s Chapelwhere he is senior pastor. He is now under investigation by the Central Florida Presbytery. We’ll have details. And, Elevation Church has fired its youth pastor amid allegations of sexual misconduct from a decade ago. We’ll take a look. Also, after 16 months of wrangling and civil suits, Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church in Pennsylvania has officially left the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. But first, a former Liberty University employee is suing the school for discrimination and retaliation. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bethany Starin, Jessica Eturralde, Yonat Shimron, Aaron Earls, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren:  Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren:  On today’s program, Dr. Burk Parsons of Ligonier Ministries has been suspended from pastoral duties at St. Andrew’s Chapel, where he is senior pastor. He is now under investigation by the Central Florida Presbytery. We’ll have details. And, Elevation Church has fired its youth pastor amid allegations of sexual misconduct from a decade ago. We’ll take a look. Also, after 16 months of wrangling and civil suits, Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church in Pennsylvania has officially left the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Natasha: But first, a former Liberty University employee is suing the school for discrimination and retaliation. Warren: A former professor and investigator at Liberty University has filed a federal lawsuit against the school and its leaders for discrimination and retaliation under Title IX, the Uniformed Services Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA), and the Virginia Whistleblower Protection Law. Peter Brake is a Liberty graduate and an attorney who served for over 20 years as a U.S. Army Judge Advocate. He was employed in 2019 as a full-time Civil Rights Investigator in Liberty’s Office of Equity and Compliance/Title IX and as an adjunct professor. While employed at Liberty, Brake took a 3½-year leave of absence starting in January 2020 to serve active duty with the U.S. Army. He had moved to reserve military duty at this point. Natasha: What happened? Warren: According to the lawsuit, Brake’s absence was referred to by Liberty administrators as a “problem” because they were required to hold his position while he served in the U.S. Army. Upon his return in October 2023, Brake claims he suffered discrimination in violation of the USERRA. Brake also claims he was fired after making “good faith reports” about violations of Title IX and the Clery Act at Liberty. Natasha: In November 2023, Brake claims he told Liberty President Dondi Costin about the Title IX office ignoring grievance procedure requirements, noting that some cases had been sitting idle for a year without resolution. Warren: In an email exchange with Costin, Costin allegedly assured Brake that “your leadership understands that retaliation is not allowed around here, so don’t give that possibility another thought.” After Liberty reached a settlement agreement of $14 million for Clery Act violations, Brake said he reported more violations. He was then allegedly subjected to a “humiliating and unusual interrogation” by Liberty’s human resources department and other harassment. In May, Brake filed complaints with the U.S. Department of Education against Liberty and filed a Title IX complaint. Brake was fired in June.

Over the past two weeks I have traveled to Southern California and Colorado Springs – two areas that have long been considered evangelical “hot spots.” Some have even irreverently called Colorado Springs the evangelical “mecca.” That trip impressed on me that even in the arena of ministry headquarters, a sense of place matters. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

Charlie Peacock is a Billboard chart-topping, six-time Grammy Award-winning music producer whose recordings now exceed 25 million album sales. Billboard named him one of the 500 most important producers in popular music history. He has held executive positions at EMI and SONY/ATV and he founded the Universal Music Group imprint re:think. He helped launch The Lone Bellow, Switchfoot, and The Civil Wars. And now, he has a new book, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music. These credentials make Charlie podcast-worthy in just about any format that is interested in the intersection of Christianity and pop culture. But one of the reasons I wanted to have Charlie on the program today is that he’s one of the most thoughtful guys I know when it comes to issues of fame and its pitfalls, vocation and work, and creativity. It was a special treat for me to get to spend this time with Charlie Peacock, and I hope you find it special, too. Charlie spoke to me from his studio in Nashville. He has a new book, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music. I highly recommend it. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

On today’s program, another congregation is leaving the Hillsong fold…leaving only 5 Hillsong churches in the U-S. We’ll have details. And, T.D. Jakes filed an affidavit in response to allegations that he made sexual advances toward two other ministers decades ago. We’ll take a look. Plus, the Presbyterian Church in America issued an apology and removed a webpage with advice on how immigrants can avoid being detained. But first, after months of turmoil, Calvary Chapel Cary in North Carolina is closing. Months after Calvary Chapel Cary discovered its lead pastor, Rodney Finch, had secretly listed the church for sale, the 9.8-acre property in Apex, North Carolina, is back on the market, and weekly services have ceased. The real estate scandal was not Finch’s first controversy. Rather, it brought to a boil years of tensions and demands for greater transparency and accountability.  The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Tony Mator, Kim Roberts, Jessica Eturralde, Adele Banks, Marci Seither, Bob Smietana, and Christina Darnell. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you today from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, another congregation is leaving the Hillsong fold…leaving only 5 Hillsong churches in the U-S. We’ll have details. And, T.D. Jakes filed an affidavit in response to allegations that he made sexual advances toward two other ministers decades ago. We’ll take a look. Plus, the Presbyterian Church in America issued an apology and removed a webpage with advice on how immigrants can avoid being detained. Natasha: But first, after months of turmoil, Calvary Chapel Cary in North Carolina is closing. Warren: Months after Calvary Chapel Cary discovered its lead pastor, Rodney Finch, had secretly listed the church for sale, the 9.8-acre property in Apex, North Carolina, is back on the market, and weekly services have ceased. The real estate scandal was not Finch’s first controversy. Rather, it brought to a boil years of tensions and demands for greater transparency and accountability. Natasha: As MinistryWatch previously reported, Finch hid a years’ long drug addiction and pushed the board to secretly cover $50,000 of a luxury rehabilitation program with church funds. Warren: But then he left the program early without telling anyone. Between 2012 and 2017, he aggressively solicited restricted funds to build a new church, but the work was never started, and funds were secretly put toward other purposes. In addition, Finch has faced multiple abuse allegations by family members. Natasha: Next, another church is splitting from Hillsong Warren: Hillsong San Francisco is splitting from Hillsong Church and becoming an independent congregation, Hillsong Global Senior Pastor Phil Dooley announced during the online broadcast Sunday, Feb. 16. Natasha: Since 2020, 11 churches have left the Hillsong fold as scandals have emerged involving multiple Hillsong leaders. Only five Hillsong congregations remain in the U.S.: New York City, Boston, New Jersey, Los Angeles, and Orange County. Warren: Hillsong founder Brian Houston resigned in 2022 following the discovery of inappropriate texts sent to a staff member and time he had spent in a woman’s hotel room during a conference. Houston was also accused of lavish spending and misuse of funds. In December 2023, he and his wife Bobbie announced plans to launch a new church. Carl Lentz, who led Hillsong NYC, was fired in 2020 after he admitted to an extramarital affair. In May 2023,

Last week, on my trip to Southern California, I learned about a model for collaboration and funding ministries that is slowing growing across the country. That model is the brainchild of The Barnabas Group. That’s a group of Christian businesspeople and philanthropists – called “partners” who pay $2100 a year to be a part of the group. Those dues pay for quarterly meetings where the partners gather to hear Christian ministries tell their story. Over the past 25 years, The Barnabas Group has helped more than a thousand Christian ministries learn the power of having a network.