

MinistryWatch Podcast
Warren Smith and Natasha Smith
Transparency and accountability are vital to the renewal of the evangelical church in America. Hosts Warren Smith and Natasha Smith highlight the top stories of the week from the unique MinistryWatch perspective and give you a peek behind the curtain to show why and how we do the investigations we do.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 10, 2023 • 18min
Ep. 260: A Conversation With MinistryWatch Managing Editor Christina Darnell
Regular listeners to this podcast have heard the name Christina Darnell at the end of nearly every MinistryWatch podcast. Today you get to meet her.
Christina is the Managing Editor at MinistryWatch and plays a vital role in our work. As Managing Editor, she has edited virtually every one of the more than 3000 articles on the MinistryWatch website.
I don’t want to do too much of an introduction, because I want to let her tell a bit of her story today. So I’ll simply say when I took over as president of MinistryWatch in the fall of 2019, she was one of my first calls, because – as we’ll explain in this episode – I knew Christina from our time together at WORLD Magazine. She graciously said YES to my plea for help, and we’ve been working together ever since
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database, editorial, and technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Kim Roberts, and Casey Sudduth.
Until next time, may God bless you.

May 5, 2023 • 28min
Ep. 259: T.D. Jakes, John Ankerberg, And Christians Re-Think The Tithe
On today’s program, Dallas megachurch pastor T.D. Jakes launches a billion dollar community redevelopment project. We’ll have details. And a former executive at Southeastern University in Florida pleads guilty to fraud. We’ll explain how the complicated fraud occurred.
Also, a new survey by Lifeway Research indicates that Christians’ views on tithing are shifting. We’ll have details from that study.
We begin today with news that popular Christian apologist John Ankerberg has been suspended from the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Emily McFarlan Miller, Kim Roberts, Anne Stych, Jessica Eturralde, Rod Pitzer, Christina Darnell—and you, Warren.
Until next time, may God bless you.

May 3, 2023 • 29min
Ep. 258: Corporate Worship With Kelsey Kramer McGinnis
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina, and I’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Here at MinistryWatch we cover a lot of stories about scams, scandals, and frauds in the church. Every story is different, of course, but I find that most of the scandals have one of two origin stories.
The first story is the story of someone who sets out from the beginning to defraud people. These people have evil intent right from the start. But in my experience, these stories make up by far the smallest portion of the stories we write about here at MinistryWatch.
The vast majority of stories we tell here are stories of people who start well, with good intentions, but are lured by some combination of money, power, or sex into self-destructive behavior – and that often leads to public scandal and, sometimes, organizational collapse.
That’s why one of the things we look for here at MinistryWatch is any unusual concentration of power, or money. And perhaps nowhere has that concentration been more conspicuous than in the area of worship music. Praise and worship music now generates hundreds of millions of dollars a year in performance and royalty income. Most of that money comes from Christians, some of it directly from churches, but – as we will explain in this episode of the MinistryWatch podcast, that money often goes directly into the coffers of secular corporations and others with no interest in the peace, purity, and unity of the church.
To help us unpack some of these issues, I’ve asked Kelsey Kramer McGinnis to be on the program today. Kelsey has written a fascinating and helpful cover story for Christianity Today called “Our Worship Is Turning Praise Into Secular Profit.”
Kelsey McGinnis covers worship music for Christianity Today. She also has a PhD in musicology from the University of Iowa. You can find her article on the CT website here.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 28, 2023 • 23min
Ep. 257: John Ankerberg Sues Whistleblower, Hillsong’s Brian Houston Pleads Guilty, and Hope For The King’s College
On today’s program, popular Christian apologist John Ankerberg has been under scrutiny after a former fundraiser for the organization filed a whistleblower complaint and shared it with both the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, and with MinistryWatch. Now, Ankerberg has sued the whistleblower. We’ll have details.
And Hillsong’s Brian Houston has pled guilty to DUI charges following a 2022 incident in California.
Later in the program we’ll have the latest from The King’s College. This Christian liberal arts college in New York City has been on the verge of closure, but dramatic developments last week are giving supporters of the school a glimmer of hope.
We begin today with televangelist Perry Stone. A grand jury in Tennessee has ruled that an FBI investigation into sexual misconduct claims has not produced enough evidence to charge him with crimes.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
I want to thank those of you who attended our “Ask Me Anything” webinar yesterday. We had about 60 people on the webinar and we got more questions than I could get to, so we’ll definitely be doing this again soon.
I also want to mention that June will mark the 25th anniversary of MinistryWatch. We were founded by Rusty and Carol Leonard in June of 1998. Carol is still on our board. We plan to have both of them on the podcast in early June to talk about the early days of MinistryWatch, so I hope you’ll keep an eye out for that, and pray for continued faithfulness for us as we approach this important milestone birthday in the life of our ministry.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Shannon Cuthrell, Steve Rabey, Kim Roberts, Anne Stych, Jessica Eturralde, and Warren Smith.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 26, 2023 • 19min
Ep. 256: Abuse Prevention with ECAP’s Jeff Dalrymple
Regular listeners to this podcast, or readers of our website, know that we cover a lot of stories about sexual abuse.
We take no pleasure in these stories, but we believe they are important. To explain why, I would use a simple analogy. I would ask you to imagine that you have a headache. If you think this headache is caused by sinus pressure, or perhaps too much coffee, you will take a couple of aspirin and go about your business.
But what if that headache is the symptom of a brain tumor, and those headaches are a warning from your body to do something?
That’s why we cover sexual abuse stories: We believe that just as headaches can be a warning that something in our physical bodies is amiss, the stories we do at MinistryWatch – especially their frequency and severity – should be a warning to us that something in the Body of Christ is amiss, and we need to do more than take a couple of aspirin and get on with our lives.
But we need more than a good diagnosis. We need a cure. That’s why I’m delighted to have Jeff Dalrymple on the program.
Jeff is helping the church to act in biblical ways. He leads a group called ECAP, the Evangelical Council for Abuse Prevention. The group has been around for only a few years, but MinistryWatch was an early fan. More than 20 MinistryWatch stories at least mention ECAP and its work, and I’m delighted to have Jeff on the program today.
Prior to joining ECAP, Jeff was a vice president at Southern Seminary in Louisville Kentucky.
Jeff and I have mentioned a number of resources on today’s program. Here are a few links to help you find them:
First, here’s a link to ECAP’s website. Also, here’s a link to MinistryWatch’s coverage of ECAP’s activities. Finally, here’s a link to a book we mentioned today, Dr. Michael Kruger’s Bully Pulpit.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 21, 2023 • 29min
Ep. 255: James MacDonald, Pastors and Planes, and Remembering Charles Stanley and George Verwer
On today’s program, former megachurch pastor James MacDonald has been arrested in California. We’ll have details. We also have an update on our “Pastors and Planes” project, which we’re doing in conjunction with The Trinity Foundation. Find out which ministries are using donor dollars to fly around in private jets. And we remember Charles Stanley and George Verwer, two giants in the evangelical church, both of whom passed away in the past week.
We begin today with news that another pro-life Pregnancy Resource Center has been vandalized.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Anne Stych, Bob Smietana, Steve Rabey, Christina Darnell, Rod Pitzer—and you, Warren.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 19, 2023 • 9min
Ep. 254: A Conversation with MinistryWatch Podcast Co-Host Natasha Smith
On this week’s EXTRA episode, we’re doing something a bit different. We’re featuring a short conversation with my MinistryWatch co-host Natasha Smith. Natasha shares a bit of her background, how she got to MinistryWatch, and some big news coming up in her life.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 14, 2023 • 24min
Ep. 253: Compassion International and Hillsong’s Multi-Million Dollar Deal, Plus More Upheaval at Bob Jones University
On today’s program, Compassion International paid Hillsong $1-million a year to sponsor its concert tour. We’ll have details. Have you ever wondered why all the songs on Christian radio sound the same? There’s a reason, and that reason is money. We’ll explain. We begin today with the resignation of the chairman of the board of Bob Jones University.
FINAL THOUGHTS: A quick shout-out to the folks in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. I’m there this week, and I had a chance to meet with supporters of MinistryWatch who live in the area. That was such an encouraging time for me. We had a great visit.
And a reminder that I’ll be in Orlando, Florida, in May, and in Southern California in June, doing similar events. If you live in these areas, check your in-box for dates, times, and places for events in your vicinity.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Jessica Eturralde, Anne Stych, Katelyn Beaty, Bob Smietana, Richard Levey, Rod Pitzer—and you, Warren.
Special thanks to The NonProfit Times and Katelyn Beaty with The Beaty Beat for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 12, 2023 • 26min
Ep. 252: How To Prevent Financial Fraud in the Church With Matt Branaugh
Regular listeners to this podcast, or readers of our website, you know that we cover a lot of financial frauds. It’s reasonable to ask, and often we get this question: “Are you guys just going for sensationalism, or is financial fraud really that big a problem?”
The answer is not one that any of us want to hear. It really is a big problem.
That’s why I wanted to have Matthew Branaugh on the podcast. He’ll help us identify just now bit a problem it is, and he’ll also give us some advice about how we can reduce the chances of fraud happening to the ministries and churches we lead and love.
Matthew Branaugh is an attorney, and the content editor for Church Law & Tax at Christianity Today. He leads an award-winning team of editors and designers with the planning, creation, and publishing of ChurchLawAndTax.com and numerous print and digital resources.
Matthew earned his juris doctor (JD) with honors from the University of Denver Sturm College of Law.
Matt and I have mentioned a number of resources on today’s program. Here is the survey we discussed:
https://www.churchlawandtax.com/web/2021/september/why-every-church-is-at-risk-of-fraud.html
This free on-demand webinar also discusses the findings:
https://pages.churchlawandtax.com/preventing-fraud-in-your-church
MinistryWatch publishes a list of “75 Red Flags” that ministry leaders can use to do a “deep dive” into their own organizations. You can download the PDF for free here:
https://ministrywatch.com/75-red-flags-is-a-guide-for-donors-who-want-to-dig-deep/
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 7, 2023 • 32min
Ep. 251: Bob Jones University, Convoy of Hope, and the United Methodist Church
On today’s program, the president of Bob Jones University resigns in what some media reports have called a coup by some of the hardline fundamentalist board members at the school. We also look at the remarkable growth of the relief and development ministry Convoy of Hope. We also look at why so many ministry leaders have been resigning lately. Is it part of a trend, and – if so – why?
We begin today with a major lawsuit against the United Methodist Church. More than 180 churches have joined together to sue the North Georgia Conference and its leaders, seeking to leave The United Methodist Church with property. It’s the most congregations that have banded together in a single lawsuit since the denomination began undergoing a slow-motion separation several years ago.
FINAL THOUGHTS: I want our listeners to know that on April 26 I’ll be doing a webinar I’m calling “Ask Me Anything.” When we’ve done webinars in the past, we always have a Q&A time, and often we get questions that have nothing to do with the topic of the webinar, so I decided to schedule a webinar where you could – as the title suggests – “Ask Me Anything.”
Check your inbox in the next week or so for an invitation to this webinar. It’s absolutely free, but you will need to register to get links and additional information.
I also want to mention that I’ve got a bit of travel coming up in the next few months. I’ll be in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, next week, and I’m hosting a lunch for donors, readers, and listeners on Wednesday. If you live in Pennsylvania, you should have already received an invitation. Again, it’s free, but you will need to sign up to get details (and so I can let the restaurant know how many people we’ll have.)
In May I’ll be in Orlando, Florida, for the annual convention of the National Religious Broadcasters. We’ll be doing a reader and listener lunch there, as well. Again, check your inbox for details.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Emily Kern, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Shannon Cuthrell, Heather Hahn, Kim Roberts, Steve Rabey, Bob Smietana, Christina Darnell and Warren Smith.
Special thanks to UM News, Covenant College, and World Hope International for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you…and Happy Easter. He is risen indeed!


