

MinistryWatch Podcast
Warren Smith and Natasha Smith
Transparency and accountability are vital to the renewal of the evangelical church in America. Hosts Warren Smith and Natasha Smith highlight the top stories of the week from the unique MinistryWatch perspective and give you a peek behind the curtain to show why and how we do the investigations we do.
Episodes
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Apr 24, 2024 • 11min
Ep. 350: Some Thought About The Mark Driscoll-John Lindell Controversy
On today’s EXTRA Episode, MinistryWatch President Warren Smith has some additional thoughts about the Mark Driscoll-John Lindell controversy.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Thanks to Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Kim Roberts, Rod Pitzer, and Christina Darnell for additional support.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 19, 2024 • 29min
Ep. 349: Mark Driscoll, Calvin University, Chuck Swindoll
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha
I’m Natasha Cowden in Denver, Colorado. We’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren
On today’s program, General Episcopal Theological Seminary thought it had found a solution to its financial woes—until 7 bishops intervened, saying they didn’t want to be in partnership with a conservative. We’ll have details.
Also, controversial pastor Mark Driscoll got booted off the stage at last weekend’s Stronger Men’s Conference after calling out the conference host for his choice of entertainment opening night.
And, Chuck Swindoll steps down as senior pastor of his church—but insists he’s not retiring. He’ll continue to preach the majority of the sermons. We’ll take a look.
Natasha
But first, Calvin University finds itself at the center of a lawsuit with its former president.
Warren
When Calvin University hired Wiebe Boer as its new president in May 2022, the school signed the former business executive to a lucrative five-year deal.
The hope was that Boer, a Calvin alum and son of missionaries, could turn the prominent evangelical school around after years of budget cuts and enrollment decline while easing tensions with the denomination that owns the school.
Natasha:
What happened?
Warren:
For a while, it seemed things were working. Enrollment went up, and in January, Boer announced an ambitious plan for Calvin’s future. Less than two months later, however, everything fell apart.
In mid-February, Boer resigned after the school’s board received complaints that he’d sent “unwelcome and inappropriate” messages to the employee of a vendor who worked on campus. When confronted by the board, Boer agreed to step down — leaving the campus in turmoil, with anger and confusion over how things went so wrong so fast.
Natasha
That anger has led to Boer being locked out of the school’s presidential residence and a lawsuit
Warren:
On Friday (April 12), Boer and his wife, Joanna, filed suit against the school in federal court, alleging that Calvin violated his employment agreement and defamed him — and that the school failed to pay him $400,000 in severance or to prove that he’d engaged in significant misconduct.
Under the terms of his employee agreement, Boer was considered an at-will employee and could leave the school or be fired at any time. However, unless the board ruled that Boer was guilty of “serious misconduct,” he would receive his $400,000 salary for a year after leaving.
Natasha:
Remind us what Boer is accused of?
Warren:
In the complaint, Boer’s attorney stated that he exchanged texts with an employee of a college vendor for several weeks in January but denied the texts were inappropriate. They also claim he was given little time to defend himself and agreed to resign rather than be fired — if he could get severance and help shape the messaging around his resignation.
Neither happened, according to the complaint. Instead, negotiations broke down, and Boer and his family were locked out of the presidential home — even though his kids were still in school in the Grand Rapids area.
The complaint asks for lost wages and bonuses, compensatory damages for mental anguish and emotional distress as well as punitive damages.
Natasha:
Next up – an Episcopal Seminary nearly found a solution to its financial woes but there’s a catch.
Warren:
General Episcopal Seminary in New York could be saved, but it would require the school to accept help from a conservative donor. Seven progressive bishops in the church are calling the donor’s beliefs a deal-breaker.
The deal would offer a long-term lease of the seminary to a nonprofit group, the School of Sacred Music. But a major donor to the school is a conservative Catholic donor who holds the Catholic Church’s historic positions on gender and sexuality.
Earlier this year, local bishops — who have no direct authority over the school — and local government officials learned that the School of Sacred Music hoped to sign a long-term lease.
The bishops, who lead Episcopal dioceses in New York and Long Island, issued a statement that said, “We are concerned by the lack of full acceptance of the LGBTQ stance of its founders and the lack of transparency in its funding,”
Natasha:
Tell us more about why they don’t want to lease the school
Warren:
The seven bishops who oppose the lease said they understand that the seminary is facing financial challenges but said that issues of inclusion are more important.
Natasha
But conservative church watchers say the seven bishops are more concerned about making an ideological point than doing good for the church and the community.
Warren:
Jeff Walton is the Anglican Director for the Institute for Religion and Democracy. He told MinistryWatch, “This lease arrangement with General Seminary would seem to be a win/win for tenants and the landlords who can continue to see their property appreciate in value. [The] bishops’ objections to the arrangement are further evidence that Episcopal Church progressives are their own worst enemy.
Natasha:
Our next story involves murder accusations against 4 Members of Religious Anti-Government Group ‘God’s Misfits’.
Warren:
On April 16, the Office of the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner confirmed that the two deceased victims they recovered in a rural Texas field were 27-year-old Veronica Butler and 39-year-old Jilian Kelley.
An affidavit from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) says Kelley and Butler went missing on March 30 while on their way to Eva, Oklahoma to pick up Butler’s two children. Police later discovered Butler’s abandoned car in rural Texas County, Oklahoma with signs of violent struggle in and near the car.
Kelley was the wife of Pastor Heath Kelley of Hugoton First Christian Church in Hugoton, Kansas, and the mother of four.
Natasha:
Do we know who killed them?
Warren:
On April 13, police arrested Tifany Machel Adams, along with Adams’ romantic partner, Tad Cullum, and friends Cole and Cora Twombly. The group was all charged with two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of kidnapping, and one count of conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree.
Investigators say the two women were victims of a conspiracy to murder them over a custody battle involving Butler’s two children.
Natasha:
How were the suspects linked together?
Warren:
According to the Associated Press, all four were part of an anti-government group called “God’s Misfits,” The religious group is said to have regularly met at the home of Cole and Cora Twombly. OSBI officers spoke to Cora Twombly’s teen daughter, who said she overheard the four suspects plotting to murder Butler and Kelley. Twombly’s daughter described God’s Misfits as an “anti-government group that has a religious affiliation”.
Natasha
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, megachurch pastors John Lindell and Mark Driscoll get into a public altercation at last weekend’s Stronger Men’s Conference.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Our next story, Megachurch Pastor Mark Driscoll gets booted off the stage of the Stronger Men’s Conference after publicly criticizing the entertainment opening night.
Warren:
Pastor John Lindell’s James River Assembly of God church in Springfield, Missouri hosted the Stronger Men’s conference which was founded to “empower men to rise up, bold and courageous, standing strong and determined to live out God’s purpose for their lives.”
This, however, is not your dad’s Promise Keeper rally. The annual gathering features plenty of biblical exhortation, but the opening night’s light-hearted entertainment has been a smorgasbord of bull riding, motocross/BMX racing, boxing, tanks crushing cars and, last Friday, a man rips off his shirt, swallows a sword and swings on a pole.
Natasha:
That is a little different…
Warren:
When featured speaker Mark Driscoll took to the stage Saturday, he wasted no time speaking out against that last act. It turns out, he wasn’t alone in feeling unsettled by Alex Magala’s performance and left many wondering what place such a display had in a Christian men’s conference.
Natasha:
Conference did not stream the event but the scene with Mark went viral on social media due to videos taken on people’s phones.
Warren:
Driscoll said he spent many late hours grieving over Magala’s performance and praying for the attendees’ mental and spiritual protection from what he called a “spirit of Jezebel” that kicked off the weekend.
That prompted conference host Lindell to shout from the floor,. “Mark you’re out of line! You’re done.”
Driscoll responded, “Pastor John, I’ll receive that” and exited the stage.
Lindell walked on the platform to a mixture of shouts and boos, denouncing Driscoll for failing to notify him directly and privately of his grievance, referencing Jesus’ teaching on conflict resolution in Matthew 18.
Natasha:
What happened next?
Warren:
After a 30-minute break to talk privately, the two men resumed the stage together, with Lindell affirming his affection for Driscoll and Driscoll apologizing.
By the way, I’ve had a lot of people ask me what I think about this situation, so I’ve decided to devote this week’s Editor’s Notebook to this situation. So you can read more by going to the MinistryWatch website and looking for that column, which will be on the front page on Friday morning.
Natasha:
Warren, our next story involves a brutal act of violence against a beloved pastor in Florida.
Warren:
A Miami-Dade church lost a beloved pastor and self-described “community activist” whose efforts to “model Christ in a practical way” made him a symbol of hope in a city better known for poverty and corruption.
Pastor Antwane “AD” Lenoir, 41, was found stabbed to death on Saturday, April 6, at Westview Baptist Church in Opa-locka, Florida, where he had served as senior pastor since 2009.
The following day, police arrested a suspect—a homeless man Lenoir had been trying to help—and charged him with first-degree murder. An arrest report obtained by NBC 6 said James Dawkins, 44, stabbed Lenoir multiple times in the neck “without any provocation” before fleeing on foot.
Natasha:
Is there any hint of why the murder happened?
Warren:
Yovonka Bryant, the victim’s cousin, said Lenoir had been allowing Dawkins, who played the keyboard at Westview Baptist, to live in the building, but Dawkins became angry when Lenoir tried to end the arrangement.
The attack occurred after Lenoir went to the church with a locksmith to change the locks. There the suspect allegedly confronted him and engaged in an argument that escalated to violence.
Many leaders and community members responded to the tragic news by celebrating the life of the well-known and well-loved pastor, who leaves behind a wife and four children.
Natasha:
Our next story involves a fugitive pastor who we have reported on previously. He was caught in Texas last week.
Warren:
Just days after fleeing prosecution in Florida for charges of sexual battery, Monte Chitty, 62, was tracked down in Woodsville, Texas, where his adult son lives. He was arrested by members of the U.S. Marshals Service Fugitive Task Force and the Woodsville Police Department.
Natasha:
What are the accusations against Chitty?
Warren:
Chitty, pastor of First Baptist Church in Marathon, Florida, faces charges of sexual battery, lewd and lascivious molestation and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
He is accused of serving the 15-year old alcohol in his home until she passed out. When she woke up, Chitty was allegedly assaulting her. Detectives said he sent her lewd text messages afterward. Chitty denied the rape charges, saying he was just helping her lay down to sleep. He was arrested March 4 but released on $75,000 bond three weeks later. On April 1 he failed to show up to a scheduled arraignment.
Currently, Chitty is being held in Texas on a $1.3 million bond while he awaits extradition to the Keys, the sheriff’s office said.
Natasha:
Our next story also contains troubling news regarding a traveling evangelist indicted for child sexual abuse.
Warren
An evangelist based out of Tennessee, who had already been arrested on multiple charges related to sexual abuse of children, has been indicted again by a grand jury.
Benjamin Garlick, 32, was arrested in September 2023 after being charged with several counts of aggravated rape and sexual battery. Murfreesboro Police have now said he was reindicted by a Rutherford County Grand Jury in March and now faces additional charges.
Natasha:
What are the charges?
Warren:
The list of charges against him include seven counts of aggravated rape of a child, six counts of aggravated sexual battery, two counts of sexual exploitation of a minor and two counts of violation of the child protection act.
His wife Shaantal Garlick, 30, was also arrested in September alongside her husband. She has also been reindicted and is facing more charges, including two counts of facilitation of aggravated rape of a child and two counts of aggravated child neglect. She got out on bail and has since filed for divorce.
Natasha:
Garlick was a traveling evangelist – do we know where he went?
Warren:
Not specifically, but according to Murfreesboro detectives Garlick and his wife spent the past several years traveling across the country, focusing primarily on the Hispanic community.
The full number of victims, how the couple knew them, or when the alleged rapes occurred is still unclear. Special Victims Unit detectives are urging anyone, particularly those in the Hispanic community, with information to come forward.
Benjamin Garlick remains in the Rutherford County Adult Detention Center on a $825,000 bond.
Natasha
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren
Beverly LaHaye, influential conservative activist and founder of Christian Women for America, died on Sunday at a retirement home in California. She was 94 years old.
Her husband, Tim LaHaye was a well-known pastor and co-author of the wildly popular Left Behind book series.
In the 1970s, the LaHayes started Family Life Seminars, offering eight lectures on the biblical principles they said God gave to “guarantee the happiness and fulfillment He intended for the Christian home.”
LaHaye became a political activist in 1978, and in 1979 she founded the Concerned Women for America (CWA), which was radically effective in influencing culture and enacting change.
President Ronald Reagan said Beverly LaHaye was “one of the powerhouses” of the conservative movement and she was “changing the face of American politics.”
LaHaye’s death follows that of her husband, who died in 2016, and her son Lee, who died in 2017. She is survived by three children, 9 grandchildren, and 20 great-grandchildren.
Natasha:
What’s our next story?
Warren:
On May 1, evangelical pastor, author and Insight for Living radio ministry founder Chuck Swindoll will step down as senior pastor of Stonebriar Community Church.
The announcement by made by the elders of the 3,700-member Frisco, Texas, megachurch Swindoll founded in 1998. But the elders insist the 89-year-old minister is not retiring.
The elders of the church said, “Senior Pastor Chuck Swindoll will take on the role of Founding Pastor, and our friend Dr. Jonathan Murphy will join our staff as Senior Pastor of Stonebriar Community Church, [Swindoll] will continue to preach as much as he desires and is able, and he will continue to serve as an elder and mentor to the Senior Pastor.”
The news comes after a series of medical setbacks for Swindoll, who suffered a fall last year, battled low blood pressure and took time away from preaching this January while recovering from a heart procedure.
Natasha
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren
In the MinistryWatch database, the Donor Confidence Score (DCS) for Aglow International recently dropped from 87 to 62, downgrading it from a designation of “Give With Confidence” to “Give With Caution.” Its overall financial efficiency rating also dropped from 4 stars to 3 stars.
A key reason for the fall in its rating is the fact that it stopped making its 990s public after petitioning the IRS to reclassify it as an “association of churches.” Because of this, Aglow’s transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database dropped to a D.
They do make audited financial statements available.
According to its website, “Aglow is an international organization of women and men in more than 170 nations of the world, presenting Biblical principles as solutions to the challenging issues of our time.”
It offers a number of different ministries, including prayer groups, missions trips, resources, and conferences.
Natasha
And who did Christina highlight in Ministries Making a Difference?
Warren
A quilter, an archery company, and a cattle ranch have recently joined the team of Rural Compassion, an Assemblies of God ministry to rural pastors. Through the partnerships, the ministry is able to provide encouragement and practical help through beautiful quilts, high quality bows, and grass-fed beef to pastors in rural areas who often face isolation, anonymity, and financial hardship.
Lads to Leaders, a ministry of the Church of Christ denomination, saw attendance top 10,000 people at its Nashville convention over Easter weekend. It was the largest of a half-dozen sites across the country, and also the largest since the COVID-19 pandemic. Students, parents and coaches swarmed the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center to compete in various disciplines such as speech, song leading, and Scripture memorization. Reporter Bobby Ross Jr. attended the convention and said: “The present — and yes, the future — of the church never looked so bright.”
The Christian humanitarian group Convoy of Hope is celebrating 30 years of ministry this year. Convoy originally started by hosting community outreaches in partnership with other local organizations, focused on feeding the hungry, hosting job fairs, and providing for other practical needs. Now, Convoy works internationally through feeding programs, agricultural training and business development. In October 2023, it opened a new $61 million global headquarters on 240 acres, all debt free. Convoy of Hope has 4 stars and an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 74.
Natasha
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren
I was in Indianapolis last week meeting with donors and others there, next week I’ll be in Lexington, Kentucky, for the annual meeting of the Evangelical Press Association. It will be my honor to present a Lifetime Achievement Award – posthumously – to Joel Belz, the founder of WORLD Magazine and a friend and mentor to me. I won’t be able to do any donor or reader lunches in Lexington this time through, but if you plan to be at the EPA conference, I hope you’ll say hello.
I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.
Natasha
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Jessica Eturralde, Tony Mator, Christopher Mann, Bethany Starin, Daniel Ritchie, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 17, 2024 • 33min
Ep. 348: Eric Metaxas’s Letter To The American Church
Ten years ago, Eric Metaxas was the belle of the evangelical ball. Indeed, his evangelical bona fides were nearly impeccable. Early in his career he wrote for Veggie Tales and worked for Chuck Colson. He wrote humorously but piercingly about Christian apologetics. His biography of Bonhoeffer was named the book of the year by the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association. It sold more than a million copies and has been translated into 20 languages.
His keynote address to the National Prayer Breakfast in 2012 became a viral sensation. With great wit and rhetorical flourish, and with President Barack Obama sitting just a few feet away, he gave a passionate defense of the unborn. Eric Metaxas was becoming what many evangelicals claimed the movement needed: An intellectual Christian, someone who took the Bible and doctrine seriously, but who was also taken seriously in the secular public square.
Then, Donald Trump happened. After being initially skeptical of Trump, Eric Metaxas became a full-throated advocate on his then new Salem radio program, which was syndicated nationwide. He wrote two children’s books about Donald Trump. And, in an infamous incident caught on video, he punched an anti-Trump protester at a rally at the White House in August of 2020. Metaxas has gone on to use his radio program as a platform to have guests who promoted the notion that the 2020 presidential election was stolen and that the COVID vaccine is dangerous. His advocacy has also gotten him in legal trouble. Just last week a judge ruled that a defamation lawsuit against Metaxas and others can go forward.
All of this has caused a lot of Eric’s former friends and admirers to ask: “What happened to Eric Metaxas”? It’s a question Eric addresses in this conversation, a conversation that starts out talking about his 2022 book Letter To The American Church, which has recently been adapted to film and is showing, mostly in churches, around the country.
Thanks for listening in on my conversation with Eric Metaxas. His latest book is Letter to the American Church.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, technical, editorial, and other support from Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Christina Darnell, and Kim Roberts.
I hope you’ll join me and Natasha Cowden for our roundup of the stories we’ve been working on this week here at MinistryWatch.
Until then, may God bless you.

Apr 12, 2024 • 27min
Ep. 347: State Department Proposes Rules that Could Hurt Ministries Salem Media Reports Big Loss
SHOW NOTES:
On today’s program, a proposed State Department rule could impact employment regulations for nonprofits…and some ministry leaders are voicing concern. We’ll take a look.
And, the North Carolina pastor who went viral for remarks he made from the pulpit about rape has apologized—but the controversy, which has sparked ongoing protests, caught the attention of lawmakers and inflamed the state’s debate over school vouchers. We’ll have details.
Also, Salem Media—one of the only Christian publicly traded companies—has reported a $46 million operating loss in its latest annual report. That story later in the program.
But first two Christian Colleges face legal challenges due to their names.
I was in Indianapolis this week meeting with donors and others there. If you came out to some of my meetings, thanks for hanging out with me. Special thanks to Bill Warren with FAME, a medical missions organization based in Indianapolis for showing me some Hoosier hospitality.
I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Cheryl Mann Bacon, Kim Roberts, Tony Mator, Aaron Earls, Christopher Mann, Shannon Cuthrell, Richard Levey, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
A special thanks to The Christian Chronicle, Lifeway Research, and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT:
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha
I’m Natasha Cowden in Denver, Colorado. We’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren
On today’s program, a proposed State Department rule could impact employment regulations for nonprofits…and some ministry leaders are voicing concern. We’ll take a look.
And, the North Carolina pastor who went viral for remarks he made from the pulpit about rape has apologized—but the controversy, which has sparked ongoing protests, caught the attention of lawmakers and inflamed the state’s debate over school vouchers. We’ll have details.
Also, Salem Media—one of the only Christian publicly traded companies—has reported a $46 million operating loss in its latest annual report. That story later in the program.
Natasha
But first two Christian Colleges face legal challenges due to their names.
Warren:
Lubbock Christian University in Texas and newly renamed Rochester Christian University in Michigan —Both schools are associated with Churches of Christ.
Lubbock Christian University found itself in court defending the use of its LCU moniker against Louisiana Christian University, which adopted that name only two and a half years ago after more than a century as Louisiana College.
Natasha:
So what’s happening between the schools?
Warren:
A January 2023 letter to the Louisiana school stated, “Lubbock Christian University will again request an amicable discussion between our institution[s] on this matter. But we are prepared to defend our right to our trademark if necessary.”
As of January, the case had been transferred to a new judge and assigned to a magistrate for a report and recommendation.
While the parties await a ruling, both universities continue to use their LCU logos.
Natasha:
And what about the University of Rochester and Rochester University?
Warren:
Although the trademark issues in the two cases are similar, the roles are reversed.
University of Rochester, a 173-year-old, research-based university. Rochester Christian University is a much smaller and newer school.
The URLs for the two universities’ websites were mentioned repeatedly as particularly problematic, differing by only one character and leading to misdirection from search engines.
Warren:
Shortly after it was filed, the case was automatically referred for mediation. Subsequently, Rochester University announced in its Feb. 21 chapel assembly the plan to change its name to Rochester Christian University but declined to discuss the change outside that in-house announcement prior to a news release on March 8.
Natasha:
Our next story involves new rules that could limit work of Christian Humanitarian Groups.
Warren:
Several Christian ministries are raising concerns about a proposed addition to Department of State regulations that would limit the employment decisions of those accepting foreign assistance.
The Accord Network, Samaritan’s Purse, Christian Legal Society, and the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) of the Southern Baptist Convention, along with others, filed an official comment about the proposed changes.
The proposal “expressly states that recipients and subrecipients receiving Department-funded foreign assistance funds must not discriminate on specified bases against end users of supplies or services (also referred to in this rule as beneficiaries and potential beneficiaries) or in certain employment decisions.”
Natasha:
These ministries agree that they should not discriminate against beneficiaries, but have serious “concerns” about the rules governing employment decisions.
Warren:
Many of these faith-based humanitarian ministries make employment decisions that are guided by religious beliefs to which they adhere.
According to the ERLC, the rules would “not allow [faith-based organizations] to consider sexual orientation and gender identity or expression in the hiring process in order to remain eligible for foreign aid funding. Hiring staff members that reflect the religious beliefs of an organization is a long-standing pillar of religious liberty protections.”
Natasha:
Can you give an example of how this could impact humanitarian aid?
Warren:
Samaritan’s Purse president Franklin Graham said, “These proposed State Department regulations could be used to force faith-based organizations like Samaritan’s Purse to hire staff who disagree with our core biblical beliefs about God’s design for marriage, sexuality, and gender in order to be eligible for government grants.”
Only about 6% of Samaritan’s Purse funding comes from government grants and even less from the State Department, Graham said.
“But with those grants, we are able to assist tens of thousands of people around the world. We do all of this without placing any conditions or requirements on the aid. We help those who are in need, regardless of their sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, or anything else,”
Natasha:
The group of faith-based ministries are requesting some changes to the proposed rules – can you fill us in on what they are?
Warren:
First, the groups ask the regulations to state clearly that the State Department recognizes that laws such as the First Amendment, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act protect the rights of faith-based groups from the proposed employment nondiscrimination rules.
Second, rather than have a waiver process, the groups ask that a “categorical exemption” of religious organizations be adopted.
Natasha
Lets move to our next story – what can you tell us
Warren:
When an X social media account, Bad Preacher Clips, shared six-month-old video footage of Rev. Bobby Leonard, pastor of Bible Baptist Tabernacle in North Carolina seemingly excusing the rape of women who wear shorts created quite the stir in the community.
The video shows him saying “If you dress like that and you get raped and I’m on the jury, he’s gonna go free,” Leonard said in a sermon filmed on Aug. 15. “You don’t like that, do you? I’m right, though. Because a man’s a man.”
After his comments went viral, the pastor quickly changed his tune and apologized for his “foolish and sinful” words.
Nevertheless, the video sparked ongoing protests outside the self-described “independent, fundamental, baptist” church by local community members.
Natasha:
But beyond protests, this video got state attention too.
Warren:
North Carolina Democrat Gov. Roy Cooper, seized upon the outrage to fuel his war against the state’s popular Opportunity Scholarship private school voucher program. Because Leonard’s church runs a school that has received more than $3.3 million in vouchers over the last five years.
The viral video and the controversy has become big news in North Carolina because Republican lawmakers are trying to extend the voucher program.
Natasha
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, the numbers are in, and the Southern Baptist Convention lost more than 12-hundred congregations in 2022.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Our next story, the SBC loses 1,200 congregations
Warren:
According to Lifeway Research’s analysis of the 2022 Annual Church Profile of the Southern Baptist Convention, 1,253 congregations that were part of the Convention in 2021 were no longer connected in 2022.
Among the 50,423 active congregations in the Southern Baptist Convention in 2021, 2% disbanded or closed and 0.5% left or were disaffiliated from the Convention by the time the 2022 data was compiled.
Natasha:
Why are so many congregations leaving?
Warren:
Around 4 in 5 of the missing congregations (79%) disbanded/closed, leaving Southern Baptists with 984 fewer congregations.
Within that group, 813 (83%) closed. Another 136 (14%) merged into another Southern Baptist congregation. Fewer became part of a non-Southern Baptist church (17 or 2%), never got started (8 or 1%) or are now a campus of another church (10 or 1%).
228 or 18% Southern Baptist congregations either left the Convention or were disaffiliated.
Natasha:
This rate is higher than previous years
Warren:
It is. While the number of congregations who left or were disaffiliated doubled in 2022.
Natasha:
Next, Unto, Cru’s international humanitarian ministry, has initiated a fundraising campaign to feed over one million hungry children in 10 countries around the world this summer.
Warren:
Warren ad-lib: Fact checking fundraising claims.
According to a fundraising campaign email, contributions of less than $1 per day will “provide three meals to someone facing starvation.” A gift of $99 will provide 330 meals.
In addition to feeding those in need, Unto hopes to share the “message of Jesus with those who might otherwise be unreachable.”
The current meal fundraising campaign began just this week, Cru spokesperson Karen Dye explained to MinistryWatch, and has raised just over $12,000 at the time of publication.
Natasha:
How much are they trying to raise?
Warren:
The goal is to raise about $300,000 to provide one million meals, and all contributions given through the fundraising effort link will go directly toward providing meals, not to a general fund.
Natasha:
What countries are they trying to serve?
Warren:
The meals will be distributed in Zambia, Liberia, and Suriname, but Unto did not provide a list of all 10 countries where it plans to distribute meals “due to safety concerns for [their] in-country partners.”
In the MinistryWatch database, Cru earns a 3-star financial efficiency rating, a “C” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 73. We do not have a separate database entry for Unto. It does make independently audited financial reports available on its website.
Natasha:
Our next story also involves international aid – this time in Haiti.
Warren:
Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF) has been working in the Haiti for 40 years and has 19 staff and hundreds of trained volunteers. Even amidst the unrest, CEF Haiti staff and volunteers were able to plan 45 Easter parties that 1,500 children attended, with 58 making professions of faith in Jesus Christ.
CEF’s mission is “to evangelize boys and girls with the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and to establish (disciple) them in the Word of God and in a local church for Christian living.”
Natasha
What’s happening now?
Warren:
This week, CEF Haiti will provide training to parents and ministry to children of the estimated 100,000 Haitians in displacement camps to help them cope with the crisis.
The people of Haiti are dealing with unrest, fear, and violence and need help understanding how God can provide hope in the midst of their suffering, CEF Vice President of Global Partnership John Luck told MinistryWatch.
Natasha:
How does CEF practically fulfill its mission?
Warren:
It holds a long-term view with three essential steps: it trains nationals, equips them with ministry tools, and provides resources.
Luck said that CEF has been training Haitian nationals to minister to children for 40 years. Nationals are best positioned to carry out ministry because they already know the language and culture and will not flee the country when times get hard.
That’s an approach MinistryWatch has endorsed.
Natasha:
How can Christians here get involved?
Warren:
Luck said that Christians can pray for peace, stable leadership, and the influence of gangs to be diminished. They can also pray CEF resources are able to reach their destination without being vandalized and pray for the safety of CEF workers who are putting themselves in harm’s way to minister to children.
In the MinistryWatch database, CEF earns a 2-star financial efficiency rating, an “A” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 75, meaning donors can give with confidence.
Natasha:
Let’s look at one more story before our next break
Warren:
The pastor of the Moundville Methodist Church in Moundville, Alabama, and the church’s day care ministry director were arrested Monday on charges of Failure To Report Child Abuse and Obstruction of Governmental Investigation.
Local media reported Tuesday that Pastor Michael A. Cobb, 42, and Breanna Hope Lee, 34, neglected to report allegations of child abuse for approximately a month. Ada Jimerson, 59, was arrested on charges of child abuse and taken to Hale County Jail, and at least one more day care worker is under investigation.
Natasha:
Can you explain how the pastor was involved?
Warren:
According to Police Chief Toby Banks, the Moundville Police Department (MPD) received credible information from a reliable source April 2 about possible child abuse at the church’s day care ministry. Banks told local ABC affiliate WBMA that he spoke to Lee the next day, who said the church was preparing to fire one of the women allegedly involved in an abuse incident and, in doing so, revealed the church was already aware of a potential abuse incident but had not reported it to police.
Alabama is a must-report state where suspicion or knowledge of child abuse must be reported to law enforcement for investigation.
Natasha:
what about the woman who was accused?
Warren:
On Tuesday, April 9, Ada Jimerson, 59, was arrested on one Class C felony count of child abuse, accused with hitting children with kitchen spoons and biting children as punishment. If convicted, Jimerson could face between one and 10 years in prison and a fine up to $15,000.
Moundville Methodist Church has not publicly commented about the arrests. The church has indefinitely shut down the daycare as of April 8.
Natasha
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren
Broadcasting giant Salem Media Group (OTCQX: SALM), one of the only Christian publicly traded companies, closed 2023 with $258 million in revenue—down $8 million from 2022, driven by falling ad sales. In its latest annual report, the Texas-based company reported a $46 million operating loss with nearly $305 million in expenses. It totaled $455 million in assets, compared to $505 million a year earlier.
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
An expected rate case filing by the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) could include increases of nearly 10%. This rate increase impacts us all, but it will hit non-profits who send bulk mail particularly hard. If approved, the new rates would be implemented in July.
Natasha
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren
Alpha USA, headquartered in Illinois, recently saw its overall MinistryWatch efficiency rating fall from four stars to three.
The main reason for the drop was its fundraising costs. Its fundraising cost ratio is 11%, compared to 6% for other organizations in the same sector.
Alpha USA helps churches and other organizations host an 11-week series that explores the Christian faith. Alpha has proven to be an effective evangelism tool in many churches.
IN spite of this drop in financial efficiency, MinistryWatch Donor Confidence Score: 87 (out of a possible 100) and their Transparency Grade is an A.
Natasha
And who did Christina highlight in Ministries Making a Difference?
Warren
Hastings Church of the Nazarene in Barry County, Michigan, has become the county’s sole provider of English Language Learning classes. The rural church partnered with West Michigan Works to start classes and find students, many of whom work on local farms. Some of the first students are slated to become church members, and the church plans to offer Spanish-speaking membership classes.
Operation Blessing has deployed an International Disaster Relief team to Taiwan from its Philippines location to assess the needs of victims ravaged by a 7.4 magnitude earthquake last week that killed at least 12 people.
A team from Bethany Church in Wyckoff, New Jersey, recently partnered with Builders International to repair a church in the Bahamas that was damaged by a hurricane. Builders International, an Assemblies of God ministry, partners with missionaries around the world on construction projects, such as schools, churches, orphanages, and safe houses, and has mobilized over 200 teams in the past three years and works in 39 countries.
In November, we reported that Mission Cry was shipping a container filled with instruments to music students in Liberia along with Bibles and other supplies to a nearby seminary. At that time, Mission Cry was still waiting for the stocked container to be sponsored and shipped. Now, according to Mission Network News, the container has been safely delivered. The music students even produced a video saying thank you.
Natasha
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren
I was in Indianapolis this week meeting with donors and others there. If you came out to some of my meetings, thanks for hanging out with me. Special thanks to Bill Warren with FAME, a medical missions organization based in Indianapolis for showing me some Hoosier hospitality.
I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.
Natasha
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Cheryl Mann Bacon, Kim Roberts, Tony Mator, Aaron Earls, Christopher Mann, Shannon Cuthrell, Richard Levey, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
A special thanks to The Christian Chronicle, Lifeway Research, and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren
And I’m Warren Smith happy to be back home in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 10, 2024 • 30min
Ep. 346: From Half-Time to Full-Time A conversation with David Bahnsen about the dignity of work
You’ve probably heard that you should achieve balance in your life. Perhaps you’ve heard the old saying that “No one ever said on their death-bed that they wish they had spent more time at the office.” Maybe you’ve read the popular Christian book “Half-Time” by Bob Buford, in which he said you should reach a place in your career in which you pivot from “success to significance.”
My guest today, David Bahnsen, doesn’t think much of this conventional wisdom. He says it’s not biblical, it won’t lead to joy in life, and it inadvertently perpetuates many of the problems of modern and post-modern life.
He’s written a new book about these ideas called “Full-Time: Work and the Meaning of Life.” We discuss this book on today’s program.
A quick note about David himself. He is the founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of The Bahnsen Group, a national private wealth management firm with offices in California, New York, and elsewhere around the country. His firm manages $5 billion in client assets.
He has also written other books, including “Crisis of Responsibility: Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It.”
His new book is “Full Time: Work and the Meaning of Life.” And, as you just heard, it’s a book I heartily recommend.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, technical, editorial, and other support from Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Christina Darnell, and Kim Roberts.
I hope you’ll join me and Natasha Cowden for our roundup of the stories we’ve been working on this week here at MinistryWatch.
Until then, may God bless you.

Apr 5, 2024 • 26min
Ep. 345: T.D. Jakes, NC’s Pursuit Church, Birmingham Southern College To Close
On today’s program, North Carolina Pastor Bruce Frank is joining the crowded Southern Baptist Convention presidential race. Frank was a former leader of the SBC’s abuse task force. We’ll have details. And, Bishop TD Jakes is mentioned in a lawsuit against music mogul Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs—though the lawsuit does not accuse the bishop of wrongdoing. We’ll take a look. Also, another Christian college is closing its doors.
But first, North Carolina’s Pursuit Church announced this week that it fired its lead pastor over sexual misconduct.
I want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Bob Smietana, Bethany Starin, Kim Roberts, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Apr 3, 2024 • 34min
Ep. 344: A Conversation with Andrew Peterson He talks music, writing, community, Wingfeather, and becoming a ministry leader
Andrew Peterson is, as the old saying goes, a “man of many parts.”
I first discovered Andrew’s music in the late 1990s, when his song “Nothing to Say” first became a favorite – and it still is. I began following his musical career and quickly discovered that he had more on his mind that music. He was building a community of artists in Nashville that were slowly making something great. Musicians such as Ben Shive, Sandra McCracken, Jill Phillips, Andy Gullahorn, Andrew Osenga, and many others started collaborating on each other’s projects. Many of them became a part of Andrew’s annual “Behold The Lamb of God” tour, which has become an annual Christmas tradition for many of us. An Easter tour, called “Resurrection Letters,” just finished a 15-city run. In fact, I got to see it and hang out with Andrew here in North Carolina near the end of that tour last week.
Andrew Peterson’s creative energy has other outlets, too. His Wingfeather Saga books have sold more than a million copies, and it’s now an animated series. The second season drops this week. He also founded a non-profit organization called The Rabbit Room, with his brother Pete Peterson, a fine writer himself. The Rabbit Room hosts events and concerts and now has a headquarters in Nashville, called Northwind Manor, which has become a gathering place and work space for writers and artists of all kinds.
We talk about all of this and a lot more in this conversation I had with Andrew Peterson last week via zoom.
Though we covered a lot of territory in this interview, the “breaking news” here, as we say in the world of journalism, is that Season Two of the Wingfeather Saga just dropped from Angel Studios. If you get a chance, check it out.
The producer of today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Here at MinistryWatch we get technical, editorial, and database support from Christina Darnell, Kim Roberts, Rod Pitzer, Casey Sudduth, and Stephen duBarry.
And in the spirit of Andrew Peterson’s Resurrection Letters, let me mention that Easter is not a day, but a season, so let me wish you a happy and joyous Easter season, and – until we meet again with Natasha Cowden on Friday for our weekly news round-up…May God Bless You!

Mar 29, 2024 • 29min
Ep. 343: Zoning Laws Shut Down Church Ministries, How To Navigate Crypto More SBC Drama
On today’s program, an Arizona church is fighting to continue its food pantry ministry—but city zoning regulations threaten to shut it down. We’ll have details. Also, the rise in crypto currency is forcing nonprofits to consider the pros and cons of taking crypto donations. We’ll take a look. And, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability announces a new leadership standard.
But first, Adam Greenway is suing the Southern Baptist seminary he once led. Lawyers for Adam Greenway, who resigned as president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in September 2022, alleged in a complaint filed Wednesday (March 20) that the school and the chair of its trustee board defamed Greenway, violated the terms of a non-disparagement agreement and made him “unemployable.” Greenway’s attorney had previously sent the school a demand letter for $5 million to settle the dispute. The school denies any wrongdoing.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
Next week I’m headed to the True Charity Conference in Springfield Missouri. If you plan to be at that event, please send me and email and I’d love to connect.
I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “End The Reign of Pain – Identifying and Treating Toxic Leadership. It’s by Rickardo Bodden, and we’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. That means we have just a few days before this offer ends. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.
A Few Thank-Yous:
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Tony Mator, Kim Roberts, Brittany Smith, Jessica Eturralde, and Bethany Starin.
Until next time, may God bless you and Happy Easter. He is Risen. He is Risen Indeed!

Mar 27, 2024 • 15min
Ep. 342: What We Can Learn From Lent
This week, the podcast highlights how the lessons of Lent and Holy Week can inform the way we lead and give in this post-modern age.
To read a written version of today’s podcast episode, click here.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh.
Until next time, Happy Easter. Christ is Risen. He is Risen Indeed!

Mar 22, 2024 • 33min
Ep. 341: Chi Alpha, Compassion International, Child Evangelism Fellowship, and “Margin Stacking”
On today’s program, another person has sued the Assemblies of God and the denomination’s college ministry Chi Alpha. The victim, who is blind, claims he was sexually abused by one of the Chi Alpha leaders over the span of five years. We’ll have details.
Also, Christians are often among the first to give to humanitarian aid nonprofits when a crisis hits—but where does the money go? We talked with some of the biggest ministries, like Samaritan’s Purse and World Vision, to find out.
And, Compassion International reclassified itself as an association of church with the IRS—meaning they no longer release public form 990s. We’ll look deeper into what that means.
But first, a legal victory for Child Evangelism Fellowship after their Good News Clubs were kicked out of public schools in Providence, Rhode Island last year.
FINAL WORDS:
I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “End The Reign of Pain – Identifying and Treating Toxic Leadership. It’s by Rickardo Bodden, and we’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the DONATE button at the top of the page.
The producers for today’s program are Rich Roszel and Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Daniel Ritchie, Shannon Cuthrell, Clemente Lisi, Tony Mator, Eric Obernauer, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
Special thanks to Religion UnPlugged and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.


