MinistryWatch Podcast

In a recent court filing, the IRS said the-so called Johnson Amendment, which bars all nonprofits from being involved in political campaigns, should not apply to political speech during religious services. The IRS decision still awaits a judge’s approval, but – if it comes – it will be a major victory for the Trump Administration and the fulfillment of a promise to at least one segment of his political base. Trump made the repeal of the Johnson Amendment an important part of his stump speech to religious groups at least since 2016. I was in a meeting in Trump Tower that year with Trump and about forty other evangelical leaders. In that meeting, Trump seemed tentative about many of the issues that energized the people in his conference room that day. But about the Johnson Amendment, he was abundantly clear. “I’m going to do that for you,” he said. There is, however, another perspective. The perspective that repeal of the Johnson Amendment is a bad idea and will result in bad actors using religious groups as a mere front for political activism. It is a perspective I hold, and I’d like to share a few thoughts with you today. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

Have you noticed that we live in contentious times? I certainly have. Our politics is polarized. Even our church life is too often contentious and ideological, with positions being driven as much by tribalism as by Scripture or a principled theology. Why is there so much conflict today, and is there a way out of it? Amanda Ripley thinks there is. She’s an investigative journalist who has written for Slate, The Atlantic, and many other publications. She is also trained in conflict mediation, and she teaches other journalists how to cover high conflict situations in a professional and ethical way. Her book High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out came out in 2021, but I am just discovering it, and when I read it – a few months ago – I thought it explained a lot of what is going on today in the world of media, politics, and religion. Amanda Ripley doesn’t write for Christian audiences, per se, and she draws on traditions that are not explicitly Christian for many of her examples and lessons. That said, I found this book to be both enlightening and nourishing, and I think you’ll enjoy this conversation with her. Amanda Ripley spoke to me from her home in the Washington, DC, area, and I spoke with her from Covenant College, on Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where I was speaking to students at Summit Ministries. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m your host, Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

On today’s program, St. Andrew’s Chapel is facing questions over its lack of financial transparency. Members say church leaders refuse to share budget details. Now, the local presbytery is involved. We’ll have details. And, the I-R-S now says churches CAN endorse politicians—this, despite the so-called Johnson Amendment…a law that threatens to remove a ministry’s non-profit status if it makes political endorsements. The move comes as the I-R-S hopes to settle a lawsuit brought by the National Religious Broadcasters. We’ll take a look. Plus, John MacArthur—megachurch pastor and voice of ‘Grace to You’—has died at the age of 86. But first, a well-known Christian businessman has been charged in heading up a $140M ponzi scheme. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Bob Smietana, and Jack Jenkins.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Covenant College on Lookout Mountain, Georgia. Christina: And I’m Christina Darnell, in for Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Mooresville, North Carolina, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, St. Andrew’s Chapel is facing questions over its lack of financial transparency. Members say church leaders refuse to share budget details. Now, the local presbytery is involved. We’ll have details. And, the I-R-S now says churches CAN endorse politicians—this, despite the so-called Johnson Amendment…a law that threatens to remove a ministry’s non-profit status if it makes political endorsements. The move comes as the I-R-S hopes to settle a lawsuit brought by the National Religious Broadcasters. We’ll take a look. Plus, John MacArthur—megachurch pastor and voice of ‘Grace to You’—has died at the age of 86. Christina: But first, a well-known Christian businessman has been charged in heading up a $140M ponzi scheme. Warren: The Securities and Exchange Commission has filed charges against Edwin Brant Frost IV…the founder and owner of First Liberty Building and Loan in Georgia. The S-E-C claims Frost headed up a Ponzi scheme that cheated about 300 investors out of at least $140 million. Frost—a well-known conservative Christian businessman—once ran the presidential campaign for Pat Robertson in Georgia. He apparently used his church and conservative political connections to fund his scheme. Christina: The complaint alleges that between 2014 and 2025 Frost offered investors promissory notes and loan participation agreements with 18 percent returns. He used new investor funds to make payments to existing investors. Warren: The S-E-C also claims Frost used investor funds for his personal use—including making over $2.4 million in credit card payments, paying more than $335,000 to a rare coin dealer, and spending $230,000 on vacations. Christina: Frost was also actively involved in politics, apparently making $570,000 in political donations. Brad Raffensperger, Georgia Secretary of State, is urging candidates and political committees to return any campaign contributions they received from Frost. Warren: Conservative commentators praised the Frosts. Hugh Hewitt has even compared the elder Frost to the main character of “It’s a Wonderful Life,” calling him “Georgia’s George Bailey,” according to Christianity Today. The S-E-C is also seeking emergency relief, including freezing assets. In a statement released by his lawyer to the New York Times, Frost apologized: “I take full responsibility for my actions and am resolved to spend the rest of my life trying to repay as much as I can to the many people I misled and let down.” Christina: Warren, our next story takes us back to Sanford, Florida,

Christian Smith, the William R. Kenan Jr. Professor of Sociology at Notre Dame, challenges the relevance of traditional religion in modern America. He discusses the striking decline of institutional faith since 1991, emphasizing how Millennials and Gen Z view religion as 'obsolete.' Factors such as neoliberal capitalism are examined for their role in fostering instability and mobility, affecting community and commitment. Smith calls for religious institutions to adapt to these cultural shifts, while noting an emerging interest in alternative spiritualities.

On today’s program, Baylor University voluntarily rescinded their acceptance of an LGBTQ research grant after receiving pushback. The school’s president says their stance on biblical sexuality has not changed. We’ll have details. And, is a membership with the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability worth the cost? We talked with current and former members. Also, the adoption of A-I in church operations is now mainstream…but pastors aren’t ready to use it for everything. Plus, a guide to giving to ministries helping with relief efforts in central Texas after floods devastated the area. First, a former member is suing John MacArthur’s megachurch for how it handled church discipline. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Kim Roberts, Tony Mator, Jim Vertigo, John Seewer, Jessica Eturralde, and Christina Darnell. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren:                                                        Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, Baylor University voluntarily rescinded their acceptance of an LGBTQ research grant after receiving pushback. The school’s president says their stance on biblical sexuality has not changed. We’ll have details. And, is a membership with the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability worth the cost? We talked with current and former members. Also, the adoption of A-I in church operations is now mainstream…but pastors aren’t ready to use it for everything. Plus, a guide to giving to ministries helping with relief efforts in central Texas after floods devastated the area. Natasha: But first, a former member is suing John MacArthur’s megachurch for how it handled church discipline. Warren: In a complaint filed Thursday (July 3) in Los Angeles County Superior Court, lawyers for Lorraine Zielinski said she went to leaders at the megachurch in LA’s Sun Valley neighborhood, where MacArthur is the longtime pastor, seeking counseling for her troubled marriage and was told her conversations would be kept confidential. According to the complaint, she told counselors she was afraid for her safety and the safety of her daughter, alleging that her then-husband was physically abusive. Her lawyers said church leaders pressured Zielinski to drop her request for a legal separation. When Zielinski tried to resign as a church member, pastors put her under church discipline for failing to follow their counsel, according to the complaint. They also allegedly told her to either come to a meeting with church pastors or details of her counseling would be made public to the congregation. Natasha: What happened? Warren: According to the complaint. “When Plaintiff did not attend the meeting, GCC made good on its threat and shared information gained through confidential communications relating to her marriage with GCC membership,” “GCC also misrepresented parts of these communications, painting Plaintiff as a bad actor in the marriage and the party at fault for the marital dispute. GCC also omitted Plaintiff’s husband’s desire to remarry and dissolve the marriage.” Natasha: Church members were also allegedly asked to pressure Zielenski to submit to church leaders and to reconcile with her husband, according to the complaint. Warren: Lawyers for Zielenski said the church violated her right to privacy and her right to free association, disclosed private facts, painted her in a false light, breached confidentiality and intentionally inflicted emotional distress. Grace Community Church did not reply to a request for co...

In this week’s “Extra” episode, Warren discusses the history of McLean Bible Church and the tenure of David Platt. Does he deserve the criticism he has received? Warren’s answer: Platt is not perfect, but the “conflict entrepreneurs” at his church have produced more heat than light. A few links mentioned in today’s program: Stories about McLean Bible Church or David Platt. In the past week, the church released a 35-page report telling its side of the story. I have read the entire report, and I strongly recommend that anyone with an interest in this matter should do the same. If reading the entire report is more than you want, MinistryWatch has a summary here. The producer of today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

The mission of MinistryWatch is to help Christian donors become more faithful stewards of the resources God has entrusted to them. With a mission like that, it’s easy to see why Dana and Bill Wichterman’s new book got my attention. The book is Stewards Not Owners: The Joy of Aligning Your Money With Your Faith. Over the years, I’ve read a lot of books about this topic, from Randy Alcorn’s Money, Possessions and Eternity to Jay Richards’ Money, Greed, and God. Other books I often recommend on the topic of stewardship include When Helping Hurts by Brian Fikkert and Steve Corbett, and Marvin Olasky’s The Tragedy of American Compassion. These books are classics of the genre. But I honestly think that Dana and Bill’s new book is the book I would recommend  to someone who wants to read just one book on the topic. Their new book is relatively short and highly readable, but it doesn’t “dumb down” the deep biblical principles involved. Also, it includes lots of stories of men and women who have lived out the principles they espouse. Those stories make the book come alive, and make the abstract principles seem credible and achievable. Bill Wichterman has spent his career in law and politics, including as Special Assistant to the President in the White House. Bill is the author of the book Dying to Live: Finding Joy In Giving Yourself to God, and the influential essay “The Culture: Upstream from Politics.” He is co-founder of Wedgwood Circle and board president of Faith and Law. Bill holds an M.A. in Political Theory from The Catholic University of America. Dana works for Impact Foundation (Impactfoundation.org), a donor-advised fund specializing in helping Christians align their charitable capital with their unique calling to partner with Kingdom-oriented for-profit companies. Their new book is Stewards Not Owners: The Joy of Aligning Your Money With Your Faith. And, as I promised earlier, we have a way for you to get your own copy of this book. Bill and Dana have donated nearly 200 books to MinistryWatch, and we are going to make them available to you for a gift of any size during the month of July. So, if you would like your own copy of this book, just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page. We’ll get your book in the mail immediately. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m your host Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.

Here at MinistryWatch, we have become all too familiar with the allure and the dangers of celebrity preachers. One of the things you will here me say often is that we humans are not meant to be celebrities. We’re not wired for it. Celebrityhood is a condition that wars against the health of our soul. And yet…we Americans, and American evangelicals in particular, have an addiction to celebrities. To use the words from the Joni Mitchell song, our star-making machinery keeps spitting them out. And when these celebrities burn out, or meltdown, we brush them aside and make more. Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Ravi Zacharias, Mark Driscoll, Jimmy Swaggart, Bill Hybels. How much time do you have, because this list could go on and on. All of this is why Molly Worthen’s new book caught my attention. It’s called Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is one of those rare academics – she’s a professor at the University of North Carolina – who writes in readable, compelling ways. And her discussion of what she calls charisma, which she says differs from celebrity or charm, is fascinating and has opened up my eyes to new ways of seeing some of the characteristics of the modern evangelical church. If Molly Worthen’s name sounds familiar to you, it could be because I’ve cited her often in my own work. Her book Apostles of Reason: The Crisis of Authority in American Evangelicalism, was helpful to me when it was published ten years ago. I should also add that since the publication of that first book, Molly Worthen herself has had a conversion experience and now counts herself as a born-again Christian. I ask her about that near the end of this conversation, and I would invite you to stick around to the end to hear her interesting and – to my way of thinking – encouraging personal story. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

On today’s program, Brady Boyd resigns from New Life Church. Boyd was on staff at Gateway during Robert Morris’ tenure, and Elders now believe he misled the congregation about his knowledge of Morris’s alleged abuse. We’ll have details. Also, a court ruled that a lawsuit filed against Dave Ramsey can move forward. A former employee who was fired for being pregnant while unmarried is suing Ramsey for religious discrimination. We’ll take a look. And, the sale of St. Louis FM radio station resulted in a standoff between two giants in Christian radio—K-LOVE and Joy FM Radio—and an almost $9 million price tag. But first, Christian YouTuber Kris ‘Kdub’ Williams responds to rebuke following revelations of an affair. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Kristen Parker, Shannon Cuthrell, Paul Clolery,  Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell. A special thanks to The Banner and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, Brady Boyd resigns from New Life Church. Boyd was on staff at Gateway during Robert Morris’ tenure, and Elders now believe he misled the congregation about his knowledge of Morris’s alleged abuse. We’ll have details. Also, a court ruled that a lawsuit filed against Dave Ramsey can move forward. A former employee who was fired for being pregnant while unmarried is suing Ramsey for religious discrimination. We’ll take a look. And, the sale of St. Louis FM radio station resulted in a standoff between two giants in Christian radio—K-LOVE and Joy FM Radio—and an almost $9 million price tag. Natasha: But first, Christian YouTuber Kris ‘Kdub’ Williams responds to rebuke following revelations of an affair. Warren: Williams, a Christian YouTuber who once reached 90K+ subscribers, runs the "All Things Theology" channel under the handle @Kdubtru. His content spans topics like Christian hip hop, church culture insights, and in-depth sermon critiques. Natasha: In May, Heritage Grace Community Church in Frisco, Texas, announced that it was disciplining Williams, stating he no longer has their endorsement due to his alleged engagement in an adulterous online relationship, which has caused him to seek a divorce from his wife. Warren: Williams has responded to the public criticisms in a video titled "Let's talk about it…" In the video, he admitted to having an emotional affair and expressed remorse and repentance. He denied rumors of leaving his marriage and adopted son (Micah) to pursue a romantic relationship with another woman. Natasha: Moving on, Brady Boyd, senior pastor of megachurch New Life Church in Colorado Springs, resigned his position last week after it became clear he misled the congregation regarding his knowledge of former Gateway Pastor Robert Morris’s alleged abuse of Cindy Clemishire. Warren: Boyd, who served at Gateway Church in the Dallas-Fort Worth area as an associate pastor and elder from 2001 to 2007, said as recently as June 8 that, until last year, he was unaware that Clemishire was 12 when the abuse began. “I worked alongside him. I had no reason to believe he had any kind of character issues,” Boyd told the congregation, according to ChurchLeaders. “He did confide in me he’d had a moral failure when he was 20 years old. That’s really all the details he shared.” Natasha: New Life elder Scott Palmer told the congregation on Sunday, June 22,

Sometimes, in the midst of the nuance, complexity, and confusion of everyday life, it’s good to return to first principles. That’s exactly what Glenn Packiam has done with his new book What Is A Christian, Anyway? The title of this book poses a simple and obvious question that the modern (post-modern? Post-postmodern?) church sometimes forgets. Packiam reminds us that this question is an old one, and that it has a clear and beautiful answer: The Nicene Creed. This book gently walks the reader through the Nicene Creed, explaining it line by line. In the church I attend, the Anglican Church, we recite the Nicene Creed most Sundays in our service, so I’ve recited it thousands of times, and I’ve even studied it. But I found Glenn’s new book both intellectually and spiritually nourishing, and I’m glad to have him on the program to discuss it. By the way, this is not the first time I have interviewed Glenn Packiam. To read or listen to my 2019 interview with Packiam, click here. Glenn Packiam is a pastor, author, and practical theologian, who currently serves as the lead pastor of RockHarbor Church, in Costa Mesa, California. Prior to taking on this role, he served as associate senior pastor at New Life Church (newlifechurch.org) in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and as the lead pastor of New Life Downtown, a congregation of New Life Church. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. I’m your host Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.