
Design Better
Design Better co-hosts Eli Woolery and Aarron Walter explore the intersection of design, technology, and the creative process through conversations with guests across many creative fields, helping you hone your craft, unlock your creativity, and learn the art of collaboration.Whether you’re design curious or a design pro, Design Better is guaranteed to inspire and inform. Vanity Fair calls Design Better, “sharp, to the point, and full of incredibly valuable information for anyone looking to better understand how to build a more innovative world.”
Latest episodes

Oct 13, 2020 • 44min
Seth Godin: Learning to take risks, be generous, and make a ruckus
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/seth-godinIf you don’t know who Seth Godin is, just type “Seth” into Google or DuckDuckGo. The first entry will lead you to his blog, where he writes—every day—about marketing, design, writing, how being a better human will make you better at your job.Once you’ve started to read his blog, you’ll probably be hungry for more of his wisdom. He’s written over eighteen bestselling books on business and marketing, including Linchpin, Purple Cow, and The Dip.We’ve been following Seth for a long time, and his writing and speaking have influenced how we think about creating and marketing products. So it was a huge honor to have him on our show, where we spoke about subjects ranging from how to take risks in your career, to why being creative is an act of generosity, to the idea of “creative destruction.”We hope you enjoy our conversation with Seth as much as we did, and after you finish, we encourage you to go make a ruckus. Takeaways:
Why the counterintuitive idea of “surplus” means that, despite everything going on in the world, we all have access to more resources than the last King of France did.
Why writing is often the best starting point for almost any type of creative work.
Why a company is more like an organism than an organization
BioSeth is an entrepreneur, best-selling author, speaker and teacher. In addition to launching one of the most popular blogs in the world, he has written 19 best-selling books, including The Dip, Linchpin, Purple Cow, Tribes, and What To Do When It's Your Turn (And It's Always Your Turn). His most recent book, This is Marketing, was an instant bestseller in countries around the world.Though renowned for his writing and speaking, Seth also founded two companies, Squidoo and Yoyodyne (acquired by Yahoo!).By focusing on everything from effective marketing and leadership, to the spread of ideas and changing everything, Seth has been able to motivate and inspire countless people around the world.In 2013, Seth was one of just three professionals inducted into the Direct Marketing Hall of Fame. In an astonishing turn of events, in May 2018, he was inducted into the Marketing Hall of Fame as well. He might be the only person in both.Seth created the altMBA and Marketing Seminar to transform online education and help people connect with their audience.

Aug 18, 2020 • 41min
Jina Anne: How design systems affect company culture
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jina-anneTo celebrate the new InVision DSM, we're sharing one of our favorite episodes in conversation with Design Systems Advocate, Jina Anne.If you’re engaged in any sort of community surrounding Design Systems, whether it’s the Design Systems Slack, or the Clarity Conference, then you have likely benefited from Jina Anne’s work. A self-styled Design Systems Advocate, Jina has been passionate about creating events, content and resources that bring together communities of people who care about design systems and how they impact product design. In this bonus episode of the Design Better Podcast, we chat with Jina about how she got into Design Systems, what she has learned from building these communities, and how being a hybrid designer-developer influences her understanding of Design Systems.Takeaways:
How having a Design System affects company culture.
What to consider when deciding to go public with your Design System, or keeping it private.
How Design Systems can be effectively maintained.

Jun 11, 2020 • 47min
Jahan Mantin and Boyuan Gao: Designing for diversity
In this discussion, Jahan Mantin and Boyuan Gao, co-founders of Project Inkblot, share insights on designing for diversity. They introduce their D4D framework aimed at fostering inclusivity in design. The duo highlights the gap between intent and impact, stressing the importance of addressing systemic biases. Their journey from publishing to consulting reveals a commitment to amplifying underrepresented voices, especially women of color. They argue that good design can spark essential conversations about equity and encourage meaningful participation across communities.

Jun 2, 2020 • 51min
Marty Cagan: Understanding product management and Agile
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/marty-caganAre you on a product team or a feature team? After you listen to our interview with Marty Cagan, legendary product management guru, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group, you’ll know just where you stand, and how to become a product team leader if you aren’t already one. We also discuss why product management is misunderstood, the dual track agile process, discovery sprints, and the four types of prototypes that Marty has classified, including user, feasibility, live data, and hybrid prototypes. Takeaways:
How dual track agile can help to validate ideas in the fastest, cheapest way possible
The four risks for every product launch
Why good product teams all have the same qualities

May 19, 2020 • 54min
Naveen Gavini: Uniting design and engineering at Pinterest
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/podcastWe’ve spoken to a lot of design leaders over the course of the Design Better Podcast, but this episode is the first chance we’ve had to speak with someone who has made the move from being an engineering leader to a design leader. Naveen Gavini, Head of Design and User Experience at Pinterest, spent time as an engineering manager and then as head of product engineering before taking on his current role, and he brings a unique perspective on leading design teams with him from his journey.Naveen shares how they “knit” different disciplines together at Pinterest, and we explore what he’s learned from scaling a team in hypergrowth. We also ask about the strategic advantage that co-founder Evan Sharp’s design background has brought to the company from day one.Takeaways:
How product magic can happen when the boundaries blur between designers and engineers.
Why scaling a team in hypergrowth is a lot like making soup.
How design ops serves as the connective tissue at Pinterest.

May 12, 2020 • 41min
Stephen Deasy: How designers and engineers can work together better
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/stephen-deasy“Designers are about possibilities. Engineers are about probabilities.” This quote, from Stephen Deasy, Head of Cloud Engineering at Atlassian, is just one example of how concisely he can describe the relationship between designers and engineers. Our interview with him was our first chance to learn from a leader on the engineering side, and he shared a wealth of knowledge that will help designers work more effectively with their engineering counterparts. Stephen gave us insights about running regular retrospectives and health monitors with your team, and “plays” like Roles and Responsibilities. He also spoke to the mindset and process shift that occurs when teams scale from 15, to 50, to 150 people. Stephen also relayed some great insights on design and agile. Takeaways:
How to look across a company to get a pulse on the health of teams
Understanding the mindset shift as teams scale
What it looks like when teams are efficient and productive in an agile environment

May 5, 2020 • 42min
Joshua Seiden: Agile, Lean UX, and measuring your work
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/joshua-seidenLove it or hate it, the agile approach to software development seems to be here to stay. Often, it’s hard to get good design practice to fit within an Agile framework, so our next guest, Joshua Seiden—co-author of Lean UX and Outcomes Over Output—may be particularly helpful to those of you who are struggling.We chat with Joshua about how to fit user research into a sprint, and how he advocates for setting outcomes to guide the work of your team. We also talk about how design teams should think about measuring their work.You’ll hear:
Why it’s important to set goals as outcomes, and not focus on output.
How design leaders are uniquely well-equipped to lead the conversation about measuring impact, because of their close relationship with the customer.
What mistakes designers make when working in an agile environment, and why going faster isn’t always better.

Apr 28, 2020 • 53min
Steve Rader: NASA's approach to problem-solving and leading people
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/steve-raderThere’s a lot of talk in the tech world about moonshots, and what it takes to build a team capable of achieving them. We thought it might be helpful to speak with someone at an organization that has achieved actual moonshots, and so we were thrilled to get a chance to speak with Steve Rader, who is Deputy Director for the Center of Excellence for Collaborative Innovation at NASA. We chat with Steve about how he communicates across teams where expertise and vernacular might be very different, and the importance of having teams that are diverse on an array of different levels, from personal background to expertise. We also learn how vision gets communicated by leadership at NASA, and the lessons he’s learned in his career about leading people. You’ll hear:
How to counteract fear of change in an organization by setting the right vision.
How an innovative solution for potato chip manufacturers (delicious!) was brought about by crowdsourcing input from a diverse set of skilled people.
Why it’s important to define the problem before jumping to a solution, to lead people effectively.

Apr 21, 2020 • 35min
Ryan Rumsey: Designers need to understand the language of business
Ryan Rumsey, a former designer at Apple and Nestlé, discusses the vital intersection of design and business. He emphasizes the need for designers to adopt an analytical approach to storytelling, enhancing negotiation skills after pitches. Rumsey introduces concepts like 'unconsulting' to empower teams and advocates for mid-career designers transitioning to leadership. He highlights the importance of understanding business metrics and offers insights from his new book, providing essential strategies for designers to effectively communicate and forge valuable partnerships.

Apr 7, 2020 • 32min
Remote Work for Design Teams: Lessons in leadership, collaboration, and culture
Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/remoteworkbookWe’ve just published a new book on DesignBetter.com called Remote Work for Design Teams, to help you make a graceful transition from the office to a remote work environment. In this bonus episode, we speak with the authors of the book (all from InVision): Abby Sinnott, Managing Editor, Greg Storey, Senior Director of Executive Programs, and Ben Goldman, Director of InVision Films.We chat with Abby, Greg and Ben about their own remote collaboration and teamwork while writing this book, which the team turned around in record time. We also review some tips for leaders during this crisis, and discuss why being productive at work shouldn’t necessarily be top priority for everyone on the team.If your team needs a little helping hand during these challenging times, you can head over to designbetter.com/remotework, and download the book for free.In this episode, you’ll learn:
The non-obvious advantages of being a distributed team when creating this book
How remote work lends itself to both divergent and convergent modes of creativity
Why remote collaboration can build trust through vulnerability